[00:21] <Ahmuck-Jr> how are html5 codecs unfree?
[00:25] <ogra> html5 codecs ?
[00:25] <ogra> the codecs used in the <video> tag are unfree ...
[00:36] <Lns> there is no standard html5 codec.. it's undefined.
[00:36] <Lns> because of the ogg/h.264 headbutting
[00:37] <Lns> diversity is always good so i'm not really worried..at least it's a step in the right direction
[02:22] <dtaddeo> can any one help me with a youtube problem?
[02:23] <dtaddeo> please?
[02:23] <dtaddeo> anyone in here?
[02:26] <dtaddeo> any one?
[02:35] <mhall119> 5 whole minutes, I'm amazed at the patience
[02:54] <Ahmuck> ogg is unfree?  in reguards to html5 codecs
[03:33] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: ogg and theora are free.
[03:34] <sbalneav> And are (as far as anyone knows) patent unencumbered
[03:38] <Ahmuck> i'm going to love the day when ms or some other big company hits a patent wall
[03:38] <sbalneav> They do all the time.
[03:38] <Ahmuck> it'll serve em right for getting us into the mess
[03:38] <sbalneav> They just pay a lot of money to get out of them in licensing deals
[03:39] <sbalneav> and pass the cost on to us :)
[03:39] <Ahmuck> a patent wall is one where they can't buy thier way out
[03:40] <sbalneav> You can *always* buy your way out of a patent mess.
[03:40] <sbalneav> Usually, by finding something of yours that *they're* infringing on :)
[03:41] <sbalneav> And since software patents are in such a mess, no matter what patent you hold, you can probably find some part of it that was patented before.
[03:42] <sbalneav> It's a huge mess :(
[03:43] <Ahmuck> running a vm inside of a ltsp session causes it to slow down :/
[03:44] <sbalneav> Not surprising.
[03:44] <sbalneav> You're emulating X calls within X calls
[03:44] <sbalneav> then shipping all that over the network.
[03:45] <Ahmuck> well, i forgot i was in a ltsp session
[03:45] <Ahmuck> however my client is a 2ghz, 2gb machine
[03:45] <Ahmuck> with plenty of vid mem
[03:46] <sbalneav> Doesn't matter.  If the vm's not making efficient use of X calls, it's going to be sending a LOT of data down the network.
[03:47] <sbalneav> Same thing with, say, Flash vs. gstreamer
[03:47]  * Ahmuck just dumped firefox as the browser on ltsp
[03:48] <sbalneav> In exchange for?
[03:49] <Ahmuck> opera
[03:50] <sbalneav> Works better?
[03:50] <Ahmuck> it's like night and day
[03:50] <sbalneav> The app makes all the difference.
[03:51] <sbalneav> Firefox is being written *completely* from the point of view of a single user on a single box, and quite frankly, their market these days is Windows, no Linux.
[03:51] <sbalneav> You might want to look at giving Epiphany a try too.
[03:52] <sbalneav> It's the gnome browser.
[03:52] <sbalneav> Uses WebKit on the back end, I beleive.
[03:52] <sbalneav> The one *nice* thing about epiphany is, it speaks gconf.
[03:52] <sbalneav> So you can use lockdown on it for setting things like mandatory homepage, etc.
[03:52] <sbalneav> and works well with sabayon.
[03:57] <Ahmuck> http://inverse.ca/debian/
[03:57] <Ahmuck> trying to add that to software sources, but it's not working
[03:58] <sbalneav> what's the line you're adding?
[04:00] <sbalneav> You doing this on Ubuntu?
[04:00] <sbalneav> Because all they have are lenny and squeeze packages.
[04:01] <sbalneav> http://www.inverse.ca/debian/conf/distributions
[04:01] <Ahmuck> yep
[04:01] <sbalneav> Yep, what?  You're doing this on debian?
[04:02] <Ahmuck> oh, no, on ubuntu
[04:02] <sbalneav> ok, then it won't work
[04:02] <Ahmuck> hrm, sogo says it will
[04:02] <sbalneav> since all they're offering is debian lenny & squeeze packages.
[04:03] <sbalneav> They may possibly work if you download the deb's manually and do a dpkg -i
[07:38] <alkisg> Καλημέρα
[13:02] <joerg> hi
[13:03] <alkisg> Hello
[14:14] <joerg> a bit quiet here today :)
[14:45] <sbalneav> Morning all
[15:07]  * sbalneav anxiously awaits someone to have an aneurism over his epiphany suggestion :)
[15:09] <stgraber> sbalneav: bah, it's for 12.04, so I won't complain "yet" ;)
[15:09] <alincoln> hah
[15:11] <sbalneav> I think we should ship both pre-installed, at the least.
[15:11] <sbalneav> I've switched over to it at home, anyway.
[15:45] <highvoltage> hi sbalneav
[15:45] <mhall119|work> if epiphany works better over LTSP, I see no reason to not include it
[15:55] <Ahmuck-Jr> sbalneav: sees sbalneav has has an epiphany and agrees
[16:00] <gavinl_> Hi, I just installed edUbuntu in vmware, I want to install vmware tools, but it says "VMware Tools Installation cannot be started manually while Easy Install is in progress." How can I solve this issue?
[16:06] <gavinl_> Hi, is there anyone out there? THis is my first time use IRC channel, please reply if anyone see my message.
[16:06] <sbalneav> gavinl_: Yep, we see you
[16:07] <gavinl_> Thank you
[16:07] <sbalneav> But I'm not familiar with vmware :)
[16:07] <sbalneav> How are you trying to install the vmware tools?
[16:07] <gavinl_> But what is the easy install? It is different than all other linux dist
[16:08] <gavinl_> TO install vmtools, just select VM and click install vmware tools in the menu of vmware workstation
[16:09] <sbalneav> Yeah, there's no vmware-tools package under Edubuntu, so I'd ask vmware.
[16:09] <gavinl_> It has vmware tools with Ubuntu, I just have to kill that "Easy Install"
[16:10] <sbalneav> But it's the vmware tools installation that's giving you that message, right?
[16:10] <sbalneav> So who knows what it's looking for.
[16:11] <gavinl_> Yes. but why "easy install" is still active after I finished install edUbuntu?
[16:13] <sbalneav> Don't know.  Is "Easy Install" a vmware thing?
[16:13] <sbalneav> As I said, I'm not familiar with vmware.
[16:14] <gavinl_> "Easy install" is edUbuntu thing, not vmware.
[16:14] <sbalneav> Which version of edubuntu are you loading?
[16:15] <gavinl_> the lastest, and I just updated 1 last night
[16:16] <sbalneav> How are you installing it, via the desktop?  Or with the text based installer?
[16:16] <alkisg> gavinl_: easy install seems to be a vmware thing: http://cs.rthand.com/blogs/blog_with_righthand/archive/2009/01/19/VMWare-Workstation_2700_s-Easy-Install.aspx
[16:17] <alkisg> And the message is shown to you by vmware, not by edubuntu...
[16:17] <sbalneav> Yeah, I was wondering.  I didn't think we had an "easy install" option.
[16:17] <sbalneav> But I always use the text installer.
[16:30] <gavinl_> Hi,  no matter where is the "easy install", I just wondering why I don't have problem to install vmware tools in Fedora, CentOS, but just have issue here?
[16:31] <sbalneav> Have you restarted the vm after the install?
[16:33] <gavinl_> yes, a couple of time
[16:34] <alkisg> I don't know how easy install works, but it might be possible that the vmware code is not suitable for the most recent edubuntu version
[16:35] <alkisg> You'd better ask at a vmware irc/forum for details, but why don't you just disable it?
[16:35] <alkisg> With easy install disabled, I imagine that it will allow you to insert the tools cd..
[16:36] <gavinl_> good idea! how can I disable it?
[16:38] <alkisg> From the vmware menus, I imagine...
[16:38] <sbalneav> gavinl_: We're not sure.  As we said, we don't know vmware :)
[16:38] <sbalneav> You're not having an edubuntu problem, you're having a vmware problem
[16:40] <gavinl_> it might be a vmware problem, Thans guys!
[16:40] <sbalneav> NP
[16:41] <sbalneav> I've got to get some hard numbers on memory usage between FF and Epiphany.
[16:49] <ogra> sbalneav, why not chromium ?
[16:50] <sbalneav> chrome doesn't interact with gconf
[16:50] <ogra> (note that FF 3.6 has a very low memory footprint btw)
[16:50] <sbalneav> ephy's based on webkit like chrome, but it's got lockdown
[16:50] <ogra> but its not really well maintained
[16:50] <sbalneav> I dunno, I'm in the channel right now, seems pretty active.
[16:51] <ogra> well, thats what i'm told by our browser team
[16:51] <ogra> its surely better than midori or some other not so mainstream browser
[16:52] <Ahmuck> i see yahoo is now on the opera page
[16:52] <Ahmuck> any chance yahoo is doing what sun was doing, buying up companies and then selling to bigger vendors?
[16:52] <Ahmuck> new wave of defeating FOSS ?
[16:52] <ogra> ask yahoo ?
[16:54] <Ahmuck> hrm, nm.  it's just a search option on the page
[17:39] <mhall119|work> who is yahoo buying up now?
[17:44] <Ahmuck> nobody
[17:45] <Ahmuck> it was my error
[17:55] <Ahmuck> using a thin client to do some vm work and building in the vm.  however there must be a slight delay and as a result i'm getting sssssssssssssssssssuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuudddddddddddddddoooooooooo
[17:55] <Ahmuck> hrm, nm, i'll move this to ltsp
[18:49] <stgraber> meeting in 10 minutes
[18:50] <alkisg> Whoops
[18:55] <sbalneav> Work's going to intrude today.
[18:55] <sbalneav> My regrets.
[18:57] <stgraber> meeting should be quite short, I don't see highvoltage around and not much changed on my hand, I'm naggin a lot of people at the moment but without much success yet
[18:58] <stgraber> oh surprise, mgariepy is there ;)
[18:58] <mgariepy> big surprise since you just told me hehe ;P
[19:01] <stgraber> sbalneav: we are in -meeting if you find the time
[19:08] <stgraber> ogra: hey, I just noticed you are part of ubuntu-cdimage ;) Anything you can do to help us with bug 509970 ?
[19:36] <Ahmuck> whats the status on LDAP?  is it openLDAP.  is there an edubuntu standard that might fall in line with other groupware programs?
[19:41] <Lns> Ahmuck: the status i think is still in planning a structure, if that.. sbalneav was looking into it
[19:44] <Ahmuck> i understand there is no standard in LDAP
[19:45] <Ahmuck> is openLDAP standard across software that would use it?
[19:45] <sbalneav> Ahmuck: LDAP itself is pretty standard, i.e. any LDAP server *should* be able to replace any other one.
[19:46] <sbalneav> What *isn't* standard is how to lay out your database
[19:46] <sbalneav> LDAP organizes things into ou's, or Organizational Units
[19:46] <sbalneav> For instance.  Our DN's at work look like (for users)
[19:47] <Ahmuck> i'm looking at sogo for groupware for calandering
[19:47] <sbalneav> uid=userid,ou=users,dc=legalaid,dc=mb,dc=ca
[19:47] <Ahmuck> and it uses openldap
[19:47] <sbalneav> with groups looking like:
[19:47] <sbalneav> gid=group,ou=groups,dc=legalaid,dc=mb,dc=ca
[19:48] <sbalneav> However, there's nothing stopping you from using the "o" and organizing your people under "People" so...
[19:48] <sbalneav> uid=userid,ou=People,o=Legal Aid Manitoba
[19:49] <sbalneav> A school may want to lay out their users into grades, so...
[19:49] <Ahmuck> heh
[19:49] <sbalneav> uid=foo,ou=Grade 1,...
[19:49] <sbalneav> uid=foo,ou=Grade 2,...
[19:49] <Ahmuck> i know a number of projects out there using ldap, does moodle?
[19:49] <sbalneav> Not sure, I think moodle uses postgresql on the backend
[19:49] <Ahmuck> so does sogo
[19:50] <sbalneav> but it's pretty easy to link postgres to ldap
[19:50] <Ahmuck> and i'm somewhat anti-postgresql
[19:50] <sbalneav> Really?
[19:50] <Ahmuck> i find mysql easier to use and setup
[19:50] <sbalneav> We use it here at Legal Aid and love the living daylights out of it.
[19:51] <sbalneav> We've got about 400 gigs of data in it.
[19:51] <Ahmuck> i gtg 4 now.  need to get some work completed b4 the incoming snow storm
[19:53] <Lns> sbalneav: is it feasible to create multiple "schemas" (is that the right word?) for different types of schools/preferences and allow someone to choose which one they'd like to use?
[19:53] <sbalneav> Well, sure
[19:53] <sbalneav> but then we have to support all the different configurations in:
[19:53] <sbalneav> pam
[19:53] <sbalneav> nsswitch
[19:53] <sbalneav> sabayon
[19:53] <Lns> ah that's right
[19:53] <sbalneav> evoldap
[19:53] <sbalneav> etc etc etc
[19:54] <sbalneav> that's always the problem.
[19:54] <Lns> do ^^^ have their own schemas already we might just pull from?
[19:54] <Lns> i.e. is there a standard in place?
[19:54] <sbalneav> Well, here's how debian-edu does it, and I think it's the best approach
[19:54] <sbalneav> They ship a schema
[19:54] <sbalneav> all set up and ready to rock
[19:55] <sbalneav> everything defaulting to that schema, pre-set up
[19:55] <sbalneav> Everything works out-of-the-box
[19:55] <sbalneav> Someone wanders in and says "Thats nice, but I want to use blah-de-blah"
[19:56] <sbalneav> They say "Fantastic, but you're on your own.  You need to reconfigure all the bits appropriately.  We support the default schema"
[19:56] <sbalneav> So, everything's ldap enabled, and ready to rock, but they don't try to support people who do the old "Yeah but I want to run it THIS way"
[19:57] <Lns> love that idea :)
[19:57] <sbalneav> My proposal is:
[19:57] <sbalneav> 1) Steal^H^H^H^H^HExpropriate as much as we can from debian-edu
[19:57] <sbalneav> 2) Add in stuff they don't have, and give that back to them
[19:57] <sbalneav> 3) ????
[19:58] <sbalneav> 4) PROFIT!
[19:58] <Lns> haha =)
[19:58]  * Lns nods in agreement
[19:58] <Lns> no sense in recreating the wheel
[19:58] <sbalneav> Right.
[19:58] <Lns> especially if "upstream" ;) has something already going
[19:59] <sbalneav> Now, they're on "old" openLdap, the pre-cf= ldap that's in Ubuntu now
[19:59] <sbalneav> since debian-edu's running on a much older version of debian atm
[19:59] <Lns> pre-cf= ?
[19:59] <sbalneav> however, they do stuff with "preseeding" the initial LDAP layout, and pam, etc configs that we can snag
[20:00] <sbalneav> yeah, you don't configure schemas and such in openldap anymore in the /etc/ldap/slapd.conf file anymore
[20:00] <sbalneav> there's a special config record that you do it in.
[20:00] <sbalneav> it's just implementation details
[20:00] <sbalneav> their pre-seed idea will still work for us.
[20:01] <Lns> oh gotcha
[20:01] <sbalneav> Anyone know where the next ubu conf's gonna be at?
[20:01] <sbalneav> here in NA?
[20:01] <sbalneav> or europe somewhere?
[20:02] <sbalneav> stgraber: you know?
[20:03]  * highvoltage missed the meeting due to being in another one
[20:03] <stgraber> sbalneav: europe but we don't know were yet
[20:03] <sbalneav> ah, nuts
[20:03] <sbalneav> stgraber: you and hv gonna be there?
[20:04] <sbalneav> So, here'd be my suggestions:
[20:04] <sbalneav> 1) Decide on a config.  ou=users/students/whathaveyou
[20:05] <sbalneav> 2) get configs for pam, nss, evoldap, sabayon, possible ldap backend connector for homepage, etc.
[20:06] <sbalneav> 3) write our simple useradd program that can handle any backends/plugins
[20:06] <sbalneav> 4) Use the ldaptools backends for adduing users to ldap
[20:07] <sbalneav> 5) Snag debian-edu's preseeding magic to "make it all happen"
[20:07] <sbalneav> 6) create an "edubuntu-ldap-config" package that does all the magic
[20:07] <sbalneav> etc.
[20:08] <sbalneav> *none* of that's very hard.  And certainly ALL of that's doable before 12.04
[20:08] <sbalneav> So, we can go into 12.04 with a system that's ldap-enabled out-of-the-box, with lockdown for web,mail, desktop, etc.
[20:09] <stgraber> sbalneav: I'll be there and we'll try to be as many as possible from RL at UDS, depending on how many get invited and where it's
[20:13] <sbalneav> stgraber: Now that Canonical's cut us free, any sponsorships available for Edubuntu people, or has that dried up, do you think?
[20:13] <stgraber> sbalneav: I don't think there's any sponsorship place for Edubuntu people, I usually get invited by QA/server, the best hope is the Community team
[20:14] <sbalneav> It would probably make sense for me to be there, but I don't think I can afford it this year.  I'm already out-of-pocket for both Brazil and Maine :(
[20:15] <sbalneav> I'll ping Jorge, see what he thinks.
[20:15] <sbalneav> bbiab
[20:16] <stgraber> sbalneav: that's a good plan jorge being one of the UDS organizers ;)
[21:44] <joerg> hi folks :)