stochasticdoes anyone have time to do a REVU: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/swh-lv200:41
kamalmostafaThe 'debchange' script (dch) in Karmic's devscripts package does not think "lucid" is a valid distribution, so it whines at me accordingly.  Is there any reason why Karmic's debchange couldn't include "lucid"?   Should I force Lucid's whole devscripts package onto my Karmic development system?00:56
persiakamalmostafa: Ignore the error or work in a chroot :)00:58
persiakamalmostafa: Extra points for submitting the patch to make sure that doesn't happen for lucid as soon as the name for lucid+1 is announced.00:59
JontheEchidnashouldn't enabling karmic-backports fix the issue? I believe that's what has happened in all previous releases00:59
* JontheEchidna comments and runs, off to watch Lost00:59
persiaWell, that usually fixes it, but fixing it pre-release is better :)01:00
kamalmostafaJontheEchidna: wait... Lost!?  Oh, not my timezone yet (whew!)01:00
* micahg has backports enabled and doesn't see the fix01:00
kamalmostafapersia: its certainly easy enough to work around -- I guess I was really wondering if everyone else bumps into this annoyance or if there's a more "proper" way to set up my environment.01:02
JontheEchidnakamalmostafa: just the recap show, the premiere is in an hour01:03
kamalmostafaJontheEchidna: Okay, as long as I've got at least 108 minutes.01:04
kklimondawhat are the options of creating daily builds for ppa?01:20
kklimondabzr builder is one01:20
micahgkklimonda: https://edge.launchpad.net/drobotik01:25
kklimondamicahg: right - the evil script I couldn't get to work in the past ;)01:30
kklimondabut I guess it's time to try it again01:30
kklimondaare backports enabled for ppa builds?01:43
RAOFkklimonda: They are if you enable in the “PPA Details” section of your ppa.01:44
kklimondaright, I've just thought of that01:44
kklimondafta: what is the workflow with your scripts for daily builds? I have no idea how it works..02:11
solarkennedyI need some help, I'm building my own version of a package (bind9) using the standard apt-get source bind9; etc02:53
solarkennedyBut the package from security is trying to upgrade over my version02:53
solarkennedyeven though (I think) apt-get source got the patched version02:54
solarkennedyWhat can I do to make my version take priority over the one from security?02:54
jacobsorry, wrong channel. carry on.05:21
suji11Hi, anyone advocate/review my package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/iok07:19
angelabadHi, can anyone review pidgin-embeddedvideo? Embedded video is a GTK+ plugin for pidgin. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/pidgin-embeddedvideo07:42
randomactionsuji11: I found a number of lintian errors/warnings in iok, see REVU page10:39
Laneyrandomaction: are you somehow interested in Agda?! :)10:51
randomactionnot really, I'm working on uninstallable packages10:52
Laneydo you have an easy to read list?10:52
Laneyi'll look at the haskell stuff10:52
Laneyoh that's not bad at all10:53
randomactionthere are many haskell packages that FTBFS because dh_haskell doesn't exist anymore10:54
Laneythere will be a haskell transition before long10:55
randomactionfrom what I researched, it was a simple wrapper around dh_haskell_*, so it's going to be easy to fix10:55
randomactionif it's not done in Debian10:56
Laneyit is10:56
|xaka|anybody can tell me know to build cross-dependens packages? A -> B, B -> C, C -> A?10:56
Laney|xaka|: don't10:56
|xaka|but how ubuntu guys did it?10:56
randomactionLaney: I hope I didn't break much by syncing agda11:02
Laneyrandomaction: no, not at all. I was looking at doing it11:05
LaneyI just uploaded the Agda standard library to Debian and am laying the groundwork for that11:05
* Laney . o O ( Dear Santa, please bring Soyuz binNMU support for Christmas, he's been a really very good boy )11:08
randomactionah, so we do -build1 uploads just because it doesn't support binNMUs?11:09
Laneywell binNMUs a la Debian aren't really what I mean, but yeah11:11
jetiennedebchange warning: new version (0.05) is less than the current version number (0.05). <- from a debchange :)11:11
LaneyI want to avoid having to do a manual sourceful upload11:11
Laneyalthough tbh, most of this Haskell transition could be done with syncs as packages are getting new uploads to Debian11:14
Laney. o O ( Dear Soyuz, please let me schedule actions with a wanna-build like syntax )11:14
jetienneq. in a dh_make, it propose a init.d.ex and a init.d.lsb.ex, which one is the prefered one .?11:32
jetienneok init.d.ex it will be ;)11:36
mok0Anyone know of a way to determine geolocation by IP?12:22
RhondaI forgot what option I could use for the translations.launchpad.net page to have more than 10 items per page?12:28
randomactionmok0: whois?12:29
mok0randomaction: doesn't that just give you who registered the ip numbeR?12:30
randomactionRhonda: batch12:30
randomactionmok0: that's right; do you need finer results?12:31
Rhondarandomaction: Thanks!12:31
mok0randomaction: yes12:34
mok0randomaction: For example http://www.melissadata.com/Lookups/iplocation.asp lets you look up where you are12:35
mok0... well any IP12:36
mok0I was just wondering if that could be done by any of the standard tools we have in Linux12:36
mok0randomaction: It's different from whois, that only finds the organization that has registered the ip address12:37
randomactionmok0: well, for my IP it gives results correct to 700 km, while whois lets you track me down within 2 km :)12:37
mok0randomaction: heh12:40
mok0randomaction: perhaps you have registered your own IP?12:41
randomactionnope, it's an ISP local to this part of the city12:41
mok0randomaction: well, I can't say how that geolocator works, that's what I'm trying to find out :-)12:42
mok0randomaction: I presume the ISP has to submit information somewhere12:43
randomaction^^ was on Planet Ubuntu recenlty12:44
mok0randomaction: interesting. Well the data is out there somewhere12:45
mok0randomaction: you'd think there is some service like whois or dns that could be queried12:45
randomactionI'd think that's all there is12:46
mok0randomaction: hm, kees has a script on his site that might be *exactly* what I'm looking for12:48
mok0randomaction: woot, it works12:50
randomactionis this a Google service?12:51
mok0randomaction: yes12:52
mok0randomaction: actually, it works by MAC address not IP12:52
mok0randomaction: I have to figure out how to change the script12:52
jetiennehttp://www.outflux.net/blog/archives/2010/01/24/google-is-wardriving/ <- tell this guys about geoip-like services12:53
paissadhi all, is this channel for helping about creating .deb packages for a possible later upload in ubuntu repositories ?13:00
dooooomimok0: i made the changes to the klick package as you suggested. i've also uploaded the frontend gtklick (http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gtklick)13:06
mok0dooooomi: OK, I'll take a look13:07
dooooomimok0: thanks!13:08
iulianpaissad: Yes.13:09
randomactionpaissad: yes, among other things13:09
paissadiulian, randomaction ok thanks13:10
mok0dooooomi: I submitted my review. Ping me later I have to be afk for a while13:24
mok0dooooomi: will take a look at gtkklikc later13:25
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
alkisgUrm... I issued this command: `bzr mv menus/ src`14:13
alkisg...hoping to move the menus directory into the src directory. It did, but all the files in the menus directory were gone. Could someone explain me if that's normal?14:13
_stink_new-ish to packaging, and here's something i don't get: i hear that a benefit of pbuilder is that you don't have to install all those -dev packages on your machine.  but if i have to debuild first to get the .dsc file to send to pbuilder, and debuild needs all those -dev packages, how am i avoiding installing them on my machine?  am i misunderstanding something?14:46
Laneyyou run debuild -S14:46
_stink_ah! hah, thanks14:47
_stink_duh me14:47
geser_stink_: but you still might need some build-depends installed, like debhelper14:48
Laneyyes, those needed for the clean: target14:48
feulorenhi, I have a long question about packages names and dependencies :14:50
feuloren current version of babl is lucid is 0.0.22 and package's name is libbabl-0.0-0; many packages have dependencies against it,   but the new upstream release is 0.1.2 so package's name should be changed to libbabl-0.1-0; if one change the name of this package, is there a need to repackage all the packages that depends on it ?14:50
_stink_Laney: geser: thanks!14:51
geserfeuloren: probably only to rebuild (if the API didn't change)14:51
Rhondafeuloren: Why do you think that package's name should be changed to libbabl-0.1-0? The upstream release version has nothing to do with it, that's API/ABI versions in the package name, not upstream versions.14:52
geserfeuloren: how does upstream call the library (the .so file) itself?14:52
Rhondafeuloren: As long as the upstream release 0.1.2 hasn't changed the backwards compatibility it should be fine.14:52
feulorengeser, Rhonda : ok, i thought package's name should match the upstream version of the package14:57
RhondaNot really, no. :)14:58
Rhondapackage versions should match upstream versions. :)14:58
geserlibrary package names match the upstream library naming and so-version14:58
hakaishiHi everyone! Anyone up to advocate for qt-shutdown-p? (I just need one more advocate) http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qt-shutdown-p15:22
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
bddebianHeya gang16:06
zookokirkland: I enjoyed reading your interview. I hadn't noticed that the interviewer talked about Tahoe-LAFS last time I spoke to you.16:08
sebnerhuhu bddebian :)16:18
bddebianHeya sebner16:18
hyperairpersia: how does one apply for MOTUship these days?16:25
Rhondahyperair:   * common/usr/bin/sw-repair-set.sh:16:27
Rhonda     - loose repair case for exim4.16:27
Rhonda     - add Enta and Sysa in another case.16:27
Rhondaeeks, wrong paste. :)16:27
Rhondahyperair: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU should have the relevant informations. :)16:27
hyperairRhonda: thanks.16:27
hyperairRhonda: is it up to date?16:27
hyperairRhonda: afaik it used to be through the MC, but i have no idea about the state of the MC currently16:28
RhondaI would hope so. If you find something outdated feel free to fix it. :)16:28
hyperairRhonda: it's outdated.16:28
hyperairRhonda: but i have no idea what's the up to date information, which is why i'm asking.16:28
randomactionhyperair: apply to DMB16:29
hyperairrandomaction: how?16:29
hyperairrandomaction: what are the procedures?16:29
randomactionlet me find a link; they voted on the procedure just yesterday16:29
Rhondahyperair: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard is outdated then, too?16:30
* Laney hopes this build isn't stuck16:30
RhondaAh, doesn't seem to be. :)16:30
Laneythat doesn't mention MOTU16:30
randomactionhmm, it doesn't mention MOTU16:30
kreuterhowdy, #ubuntu-motu.  where do I put upstart init files in a debian/ directory so that dh_installinit will find them?  (or, alternatively, how do I tell dh_installinit what files to use?)16:31
Laneyand https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers says that MOTU is still a delegated team16:31
Laneypersia (or other MC member): can you shed any light on how to apply for MOTU currently?16:31
* hyperair sighs. whatever happened to succession plans prior to dissolving?16:31
Laneyjpds, nhandler: ^^^ ?16:32
Laneykreuter: look at the manpage16:32
Laneyit's really very clear16:32
kreuteroh.  oops.  I was looking at the manpage on the wrong host.  sorry for the noise.16:33
sebnerhyperair for MOTU \o/16:34
hyperairsebner: thanks =)16:36
geserLaney: the wiki page with the ApplicationProcess should also apply to MOTU for now (it's based on the MC process)16:42
Laneygeser: The UbuntuDevelopers page still lists MOTU as a delegated team. Is that no longer true?16:43
Laney(because it then says "# Review the requirements for the specific team of interest, and apply to that team for membership")16:44
geserMOTU still exists, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/LucidMOTU got approved on the last DMB meeting (without the MC part), the future of the MC is to be discussed/decided within MOTU16:45
Laneydelegated for the purpose of developer applications, that is16:45
Laneyand wiki/MOTU still talks abot the MC16:46
geserit's not yet decided what powers the MC will have (at least it's not very clear to me)16:46
Laneyso I don't see how MOTUs are supposed to apply currently16:46
geserI guess nobody will remove the parts about MC without knowing if MC comes back or not16:46
LaneyI'll just mail the list(s)16:47
gesersome parts about MOTU/ MC is still in motion and not finally settled yet16:47
gesermok0 proposed to expand "MOTU" to "Masters of the Unknown" :)16:48
sebnergeser: I'm wondering if there is finally a schedule about making this decisions as this is going on since months already16:48
gesersebner: what kind of decision? MOTU will stay, this got decided (the spec approved)16:49
geserwhat happens to MC is to be decided by MOTU16:49
sebnergeser: also after archive-reorg?16:50
sebnergeser: what happened to per package upload rights?16:50
LaneyPPU = DMB16:50
Laneythis is clear16:50
LaneyI just don't see who decides MOTU applications16:50
Laneyin the middle of composing the mail now16:50
randomactionFWIW, DMB did review one MOTU nomination yesterday16:51
geserfor now the DMB does it (there are two applications carried over from the MC to the DMB)16:52
Laney(at the very least the wiki needs to clarify this)16:52
rippsDoes anybody know how to stop pbuilder after it's done building so I can inspect the environment?16:52
geserripps: setup a hook16:52
rippsgeser: like what?16:52
hyperairgeser: so is the procedure the same? just add yourself to the meeting agenda and mail the list?16:53
Laneythere is an example on the wiki16:53
Laneybut you should name it BXXX instead of CXXX, I think16:53
geserhyperair: yes16:53
hyperairgeser: okay, thanks =)16:53
randomactionripps: manpage describes --hookdir option16:53
hyperairnow i need to continue looking for endorsements..16:54
Laneyor use the FTBFS hook and hax debian/rules to make the build always fail16:54
geserripps: /usr/share/doc/pbuilder/examples/C10shell but save it as B10shell (or any other number)16:55
rippsgeser: ah thanks, I had C10shell, I just didn't know how to execute it at the right time.16:55
LaneyC hooks are executed on failures16:56
geserripps: man pbuilder; it describes the different kind of hooks (A till G)16:56
* jdong wonders what these flame icons are on launchpad bugs16:56
jdongis it... a popularity metric?16:56
geserbug heat16:56
jdonggrrreat :)16:56
geserbut it's bugged16:56
hyperairi haven't seen any of them heat up though16:56
jdongnow all we need are avatars and thumbs-up/down logos!16:56
hyperairyeah, it's bugged. =p16:56
ubottuUbuntu bug 276094 in gedit "gedit uses %100 CPU when opening a file in /var/lib/dpkg/info/" [Low,Fix released]16:57
jdongobviously more than jus the CPU is getting hot16:57
geserhyperair: look at nspluginwrapper, https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nspluginwrapper/+bugs16:57
hyperairgeser: wow. we've got a 4-flame one!16:57
randomactionjdong: http://blog.launchpad.net/bug-tracking/bug-heat16:58
jdongrandomaction: ah, good to know :)16:59
geserhyperair: another one: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/seahorse-plugins/+bug/429322, there the duplicate list is longer then the comments16:59
ubottuUbuntu bug 429322 in seahorse-plugins "seahorse-agent assert failure: ERROR:iop-profiles.c:606:IOP_generate_profiles: assertion failed: (obj && (obj->profile_list == NULL) && obj->orb)" [High,Confirmed]16:59
hyperairthat's pretty hilarious =p17:00
Laneythat bug times out17:01
* Laney strokes Launchpad17:01
jpdsHow I learnt to stop worrying and LOVE the Launchpad.17:01
RhondaHas someone the link handy for where the difference in versioning between Debian and Ubuntu packages are listed?17:03
RhondaLike, which packages are in sync, which need sync, which contain patches and so on?17:03
Laneydo you mean multidistrotools?17:04
RhondaNo clue if I mean that before I've seen it. :)17:04
LaneyRhonda: If so, http://qa.ubuntuwire.com/multidistrotools/17:04
* Laney was getting the link17:04
RhondaI think that might be something, thanks.17:05
LaneyUDD carries all this as well17:05
Laneyif you want to create your own reports17:05
RhondaAh, cool!17:05
RhondaThanks for _that_ information, that will be extremely helpful, hopfully. :)17:05
LaneyI believe part of the vision was to obsolete MDT with UDD :)17:06
Rhondathus the U ;)17:06
RhondaAh, that compares squeeze and not sid …17:07
StevenKBecause that's where we are pulling from by default this cycle17:08
RhondaYes, figured that. Unfortunately ejabberd won't be able to transition to squeeze and I was searching for it on that page and didn't find it. ;)17:08
StevenKWe are happy to sync from unstable, but that needs to be requested17:09
StevenK(And ACKed, if you're no core-dev/motu)17:09
RhondaGot already. ;)17:09
RhondaBut I was just searching for a known pattern in the page that I know of.17:10
LaneyRhonda: I made a (really bad) script that uses UDD to compare sid and lucid17:10
Laneyalioth: ~laney-guest/udd.pl17:10
Laneyit just does it for reverse build deps of ghc6, but you get the idea17:11
RhondaLaney: I am thinking of doing something like this, at least for the pkg-games team maintained packages: http://backports.deb.at/lenny-backports/ :)17:11
Laneyyes, that would be very easy17:11
RhondaWait. .pl?17:11
RhondaHow did you manage to get CGI working on alioth?17:11
Laneyit's not CGI17:11
StevenKIt's a script to snarf, chmod +x, and run17:12
RhondaAnd it gives me 40417:12
LaneyI mean in my home directory, sorry17:12
RhondaRight. :)17:12
RhondaI thought you meant http://alioth/~laney-guest/ :)17:12
Laneyyeah, ambiguous statements17:13
RhondaLike I have my http://alioth.debian.org/~rhonda-guest/stable-RC.php page. :)17:13
sebnerLaney: I'm wondering about perl being so popular for such things17:13
Rhondasebner: Because it's less prone to errors than php?17:14
sebnerRhonda: what about python, ruby, bash?17:14
StevenKI daresay bash is unsuitable17:14
sebneryeah right ^^17:14
StevenKAnd what about them, it was written by Laney by the language that was most suitable for them to use ...17:15
Rhondasebner: perl offers through the AptPkg module some sweet comparison functions.17:15
StevenKExcept that AptPkg is a pile of segfaulting crap. Sometimes.17:15
sebnerStevenK: sure, I don't have a problem with that. I just noticed that a lot stuff in this area is written in perl17:15
Rhondasebner: And I don't speak python or ruby, neither know wether they would offer similar functionality. And bash … well. bash. It's tough to do proper processing in bash, at least IMHO.17:16
Laneysebner: because I considered it to be the best for a quick hacky script to get the list I needed17:16
RhondaStevenK: Never had a single one, to be honest.17:16
LaneyRhonda: and UDD offers some SQL functions to do version comparisons17:16
StevenKRhonda: Use it on an arch that isn't i386 or amd6417:16
LaneyI use it in the script :)17:16
RhondaLaney: Oh, right. Thanks for the rminder!17:16
RhondaStevenK: Like, powerpc? Am there. :)17:16
StevenKRhonda: Hmph. I've had it segfault on alpha and sparc17:17
LaneyI should have modelled SQL in Type Theory and written an Agda program to do it17:18
RhondaHeading home - thanks for the nice ideas and hints!17:18
=== Nafallo is now known as 30BAAADYI
kreuterhello again, #ubuntu-motu.  I'm trying to get a package's upstart file installed.  I'm able to construct a .deb whose data.tar.gz contains the upstart file, but the file doesn't get into /etc/init when I install the .deb with "dpkg -i".  what am I doing wrong?17:26
kreuterhm.  "dpkg -L" reports that the package contains the upstart file, too.17:29
aboganiLaney: upstream authors refused to fix it.17:32
Laneyfind out what license the binaries are under17:33
Laneyif they have permission to redistribute in that form17:33
sorenkreuter: If it has existed before and you deleted it back then, installing the package again will not regenerate it.17:38
sorenkreuter: This is by design.17:38
sorenkreuter: dpkg will respect the admin's deletion of conffiles and not regenerate them on upgrades.17:38
kreuteroh, of course.17:39
kreuterit's been a while since I've used debianoids.17:39
geserkreuter: there is an option to force dpkg to reinstall the file17:40
aboganiLaney: I promise the last question: Where I can found instructions for create a .dfsg package (that is a oackage that recreate .orig and remove not DFSG compatible files) ?17:41
sorenkreuter: dpkg -i --force-confnew file.deb17:41
sorenkreuter: ...ought to do it.17:41
geser--force-confmiss should be better17:42
sorengeser: Right you are.17:42
gesersoren: btw have you some time to sponsor bug #511356?17:47
ubottuLaunchpad bug 511356 in gnupg2 "Merge gnupg2 2.0.14-1 from Debian testing" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/51135617:47
* randomaction hopes to have bug 515092 sponsored some time17:53
ubottuLaunchpad bug 515092 in gpgme1.0 "Please merge gpgme1.0 1.2.0-1.2 (main) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/51509217:53
aboganiAnyone know where I can found instructions for create a .dfsg package (that is a package that recreate .orig and remove not DFSG compatible files - sorry I don't know if this a specific name) ?17:54
randomactionabogani: try http://www.debian.org/doc/developers-reference/best-pkging-practices.html#bpp-origtargz17:56
sorengeser: Sure, I'll take a look.17:57
aboganirandomaction: Yeah! Exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks a lot!17:57
sorengeser: Oh, dear, it's one of those format 3.0 things.17:59
gesersoren: is that a problem?18:00
sorengeser: Only that I've never dealt with them before.18:00
* soren just does what he always did18:01
sorengeser: Looks good. /me uploads18:02
gesersoren: thanks18:03
sorenWhoops :)18:03
sorenThere we go.18:03
MaximLevitskyI have seen that ubuntu provides packages of latest kernels18:10
MaximLevitskyIt seems that they are at http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/18:11
MaximLevitskyBut I need the source of these packages18:11
MaximLevitskyWhere I can download it18:11
MaximLevitskyBasicly I need ubuntu kernel package of 2.6.33-rc618:11
MaximLevitskyAs a kernel developer I never use kernel package18:12
MaximLevitskyBut I published my driver, and was asked to provide an ppa to users18:12
MaximLevitskyI want to patch the 'ubuntu' kernel variant18:12
MaximLevitskybut 10.4 seems to have only 2.6.32, right?18:13
gesertry asking in #ubuntu-kernel where the kernel guys are18:13
MaximLevitskygeser: will try, thanks18:15
=== cr3_ is now known as cr3
ftakklimonda, which part of the README do you need me to clarify?18:42
kklimondafta: the workflow is to prepare two conf files, a debian/rules file with get-orig-source that fetches source from repository and then what? just running daily.sh [pocket]?18:44
ftakklimonda, correct18:44
kklimondafta: then everything is clear - i've spent some time after sending you a message on that18:45
ftacould be manual, or in a crontab (then i advise -e to get a proper email rather than the default stdout in an ugly email from cron)18:45
=== traveller_ is now known as traveller
ftakklimonda, use lp:drobotik for the code, and lp:~fta/+junk/ppa-confs / https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~fta/+junk/ppa-confs for some real life examples18:48
alex_mayorgaHello! Are sun JRE,JDK 1.6.0_18 in the horizon?19:46
geserwould that be the sun-java6 package? if yes, then it's gone for lucid19:47
alex_mayorgageser, what would replace it?19:48
alex_mayorgaI'm on lucid and I still have it BTW19:48
alex_mayorgaand there's https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/sun-java619:49
geseralex_mayorga: if you have it installed, then apt (or other tools) don't force a removal from your system when it gets removed from the archive, but you can install it (or update) it anymore19:49
geserdoesn't the app you need sun-java6 for run with openjdk?19:50
alex_mayorgageser, bug 47781220:14
ubottuLaunchpad bug 477812 in sun-java6 "Security update for Sun Java JRE 6: update 17" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/47781220:14
geseralex_mayorga: the same applies for a (possible) update to _18. Someone from the community has to prepare updated packages.20:18
alex_mayorgageser,  I might as well package it over the weekend if somebody holds my hand ;-)20:20
alex_mayorgais this the right place?20:20
geseryes, we can try to help you20:20
alex_mayorgaOK, thanks!20:21
randomactionalex_mayorga: since this is a security update, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdatePreparation is probably something you need to bookmark :)20:23
kamalmostafaI have always just ignored "W: out-of-date-standards-version 3.8.1 (current is 3.8.3)" while making bug fixes.  Now I'm packaging a new version of an upstream source tarball (by stuffing in the debian/ dir snarfed from the old Ubuntu version), and I get that warning as usual.   What's the process to resolve it?20:46
sebnerkamalmostafa: check what changes need to be done and bump it20:47
sebnerkamalmostafa: debian/control20:47
persiaUm, maybe?20:47
persiaOnly bump Standards-Version for packages that are not maintained in Debian.  If Ubuntu has a different version, it's still not worth it.20:47
kamalmostafasebner: I've merged the few documented code changes from ubuntu's and debian's previous versions -- but I don't know what the "standards-version" even implies really.20:49
sebnerkamalmostafa: it's debian packaging policy, but if the package is in Debian, really try to update/get it updated there20:50
geserit's sort of a hint when the package was last checked to comply with current Debian policy20:50
randomactionDebian policy evolves over time20:51
kamalmostafapersia: This package (hamlib) is maintained in Debian.  Possibly relevant here is that the package has been orphaned.   My intent here is to package it for Debian actually.   So maybe there is value in "updating it to more recent standards compliance" -- but I don't know what that entails.20:52
Laneyread upgrading-checklist.txt.gz and do what you have to20:52
kamalmostafaLaney: where's that file?20:53
persiakamalmostafa: If you want to fix that stuff and update the standards version, organise a QA upload in Debian.  Otherwise, minimise the divergence.20:53
Laneyin the debian-policy package20:53
* randomaction just bumps it and reads lintian output after that20:53
* sebner reads the changelog of debian-policy package on p.d.o20:54
randomactionpersia: do Debian make QA uploads of new versions?20:54
kamalmostafawell... is randomaction's method really viable?  Sounds like the path of least resistance.20:54
persiarandomaction: Not usually, because usually if anyone cares enough, that person adopts the package, but it can happen (usually only if required for some interesting transition when the package change is interesting, but the package remains uninteresting)20:55
kamalmostafapersia: I'd be interested in at least *looking* at the divergence... if its a one line change to bring it up to standards, then worth doing, but if its a huge ugly thing then minimizing the divergence sounds more attractive.20:56
randomactionpersia: ok, that's how I imagined it - they must prefer to get a real maintainer20:56
kamalmostafaactually, it looks like the future "real maintainer" might end up being me.20:57
persiarandomaction: It's always preferable to have a maintainer :)20:57
persiakamalmostafa: If you're interested, go for it :)20:57
kamalmostafawell, okay then my question really boils down to:  Am I *required* to update the standards version from 3.8.1 to 3.8.3, or is it my option here?20:58
kamalmostafaor maybe... Will debian require it?20:58
persiaDebian will strongly encourage it.  Ubuntu will strongly discourage it, except for packages only in Ubuntu.21:00
kamalmostafapersia: *sigh* :-)21:01
Laneythat's a clear answer21:01
Laney"It depends on what you are doing"21:01
Laney(it's really not that hard to do anyway)21:02
kamalmostafaOkay, thanks everyone.  I will go examine the policy, and will try randomaction21:02
kamalmostafa's "just try it trick".21:02
kamalmostafaLaney: Yes, I'm certainly not against trying it -- just wasn't sure even how to begin.  Thanks again for the pointers folks.21:02
randomactionkamalmostafa: actually, the policy changes between 3.8.* version are not large21:04
jcfpLaney: tx for sponsoring sab21:05
kamalmostafarandomaction: that's what I imagined anyway -- just 0.0.2 difference can't be much, right? ;-)21:05
Laneyjcfp: you are welcome21:08
kamalmostafaRe: hamlib debian standards version... That was easy!  I examined the checklist and found nothing applicable to hamlib between 3.8.1 and 3.8.3, so bumped it to 3.8.3 and lintian is happily silent.  Thanks again Laney, randomaction, persia, sebner, and geser.21:15
sebnerkamalmostafa: another hint. If you want to get it into Debian you already want to bump it to 3.8.421:16
kamalmostafasebner: oh *now* you tell me!  ;-)   The checklist only lists up to 3.8.3.  Where do I find the 3.8.4 doc?21:17
Laneyyes, you should install debian-policy from *debian*21:18
sebnerkamalmostafa: that's why I said Debian. 3.8.4 is still in Debian Unstable and not yet synced to Ubuntu21:18
sebnerkamalmostafa: lintian might complain that 3.8.4 is too new (wanting 3.8.3) but you can safely ignore that21:18
kamalmostafaLaney, sebner: Ah, got it.  Okay, I'll go fetch it from there.21:19
kamalmostafaLaney, sebner: hmmm... but if my lintian isn't itself 3.8.4 compliant, it won't be able to actually warn about any 3.8.4 violations, right?21:22
kamalmostafaI would think it invalid to declare the package 3.8.4 compliant based on my lintian 3.8.3 results (even if I've visually examine the 3.8.4 rules)21:23
rhpot1991if I open up a sponsorship request bug, should my bzr branch be ready to close it?21:27
ScottKkamalmostafa: Lintian doesn't define 3.8.4 compliance.  Following the rules in 3.8.4 does.21:30
kamalmostafaScottK: Understood.  And now that I actually *look* at 3.8.4, the checklist changes from 3.8.3 are trivial and non-applicable to my package anyway.21:32
rhpot1991if someone wants to take a look: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libhdhomerun/+bug/51676221:35
ubottuUbuntu bug 516762 in libhdhomerun "[sponsor request] libhdhomerun update" [Undecided,New]21:35
rhpot1991persia: since you have helped me in the past with this maybe you want to have a look ^21:35
sebnerkamalmostafa: that applies to 95% of the packages anyways21:48
persiaAny pbuilder users about?21:54
persiaErr, rather pbuilder-dist users, to be specific21:54
* RAOF needs to blog his pbuilder-on-tmpfs benchmarks still.21:54
persiaSo, using pbuilder-dist, how to I create an i386 builder on an amd64 system?21:54
randomactionpersia: I won't claim expertise, but yes.21:55
randomactionpersia: whoops, I'm on i38621:55
persiaI'm mostly looking for usage information :)  I'm planning to try to port the stuff I just did to make mk-sbuild-lv create armel schroots to pbuilder.21:55
RAOFI don't have an i386 chroot on hand, but from memory it's “pbuilder-dist lucid i386 create”21:55
cody-somervilleWith my pbuilder setup, I would run: sudo ARCH=i386 pbuilder create21:55
persiaRAOF: OK.  Makes sense.  Thanks.21:56
RAOFOr, rather, I'd have a pbuilder-lucid-i386 symlink to pbuilder-dist21:57
persiaSo pbuilder-dist doesn't get called directly, but is symlinked?21:57
RAOFYou can call it directly, but it's more convenient to symlink it.  Then tab-autocomplete works better.21:58
persiaMakes sense.  That's why I asked for users :)21:59
persiaNow I just have to try to untangle the python so I can determine the conditions when I want to replace the call to debootstrap.21:59
RhondaWhat's ubuntu's stand with respect to regular menu files below /usr/share/menu and freedesktop files below /usr/share/applications?22:03
RhondaAre regular menu files hidden for Ubuntu?22:03
persiaRhonda: There's lots of debate on the matter.22:03
persiaThe menu files aren't shown by default, although available in a "Debian" menu if menu-xdg is installed.22:03
Rhondapersia: see LP #511912, irssi is a textbased IRC client and I'm somewhat indifferent on adding a freedesktop file when the regular menu file is there …22:04
TakyojiSo I'm relatively new to packaging software; but am familiar with using Linux and bash, along with some general software development. Any recommendations as a starting point? (such as the PackagingGuide on the wiki, or the New Maintainer's Guide on Debian.org)22:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 511912 in irssi "Make a menu item for Irssi" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/51191222:04
persiaMany, but not all, application have XDG desktop entries.  Some people believe this should be done upstream, and not in packaging, because of translations issues.  Others tend to just add them.22:04
persiaRhonda: I'd suggest that 511912 is "wontfix" because it's a CLI client.  If you concur, I'm happy to so mark it.22:05
Rhondapersia: I don't want to play stubborn wontfix games if it is against some guideline I am not aware of yet. :)22:07
persiaNot that I know about.  I'm one of the proponents of .desktop files for everything, but I don't really see the point of doing them for CLI apps.22:08
* Rhonda thanks persia :)22:10
RhondaI'll add at least the informations that installing menu-xdg will enable that part of the menu tree.22:11
persiaSounds like a good plan :)22:11
randomactionTakyoji: besides the two you mentioned, I'd recommend https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek0909/PkgFromScratch which was awesome at the time (maybe some links have died since then)22:13
TakyojiAnother question I have is: is there any listing for projects that need a package maintainer?22:18
persiaWe don't have maintainers in Ubuntu.22:18
persiaThere's a heap of packages that need a maintainer in Debian, and there's another heap of stuff that only exists in Ubuntu that we'd appreciate help maintaining.22:18
persiaOK.  So I've patched pbuilder-dist to permit the architecture-switching I wanted, but I'm getting a bit confused looking at pbuilder itself.  Right now, DEBOOTSTRAP="debootstrap" appears to be defined in pbuilderrc, rather than in code.  Anyone have any suggestions as to how to dynamically select an alternate debootstrap implementation depending on HOST/TARGET architecture combinations?22:22
geserhave you tried setting it in the environment (export DEBOOTSTRAP)?22:25
persiageser: I haven't.  Does that work?22:26
persiaAs in, does a call like `DEBOOTSTRAP="echo" pbuilder-lucid-i386` print the right debootstrap command?22:26
persiaErr, `DEBOOTSTRAP="echo" pbuilder-lucid-i386 create`22:27
geserhmm, probably not as pbuilderrc is sourced and overwrites those settings22:27
geseran other idea might be to write the setting into a temp file and pass it through --configfile (I need to check the code if it's source after the global one)22:29
geseror even easier: --debootstrap22:29
kirklandzooko: cheers22:31
persiageser: Ooh.  Excellent.  Thanks.22:33
persiaOK.  Now I'm ready for a tester.  Anyone have an i386 or amd64, use pbuilder-dist from ubuntu-dev-tools, and have time to test something?22:39
gesersure, /me has amd6422:40
mok0persia: Will an sbuilder do?22:40
persiamok0: No.  I already make that case work.  Grab mk-sbuild-lv from bzr, and try --arch=armel22:40
persiageser: Thanks.  Please install qemu-arm-static, and then try the bzr pbuilder-dist with armel as your target architecture.22:41
mok0persia: what LP project?22:42
persiamok0: lp:ubuntu-dev-tools22:42
* persia will upload the bundle if both pbuilder and sbuild support works, but otherwise wants to fix before uploading22:43
mok0persia: ... and build any old package?22:50
persiamok0: Sure, or run any old program (with schroot -p)22:50
persiaFor best results, pick something not currently on the FTBFS list :)22:50
mok0persia: mk-sbuild-lv failed :-(22:51
mok0W: Failure trying to run: chroot /tmp/schroot-2KvyJk mount -t proc proc /proc22:51
persiaWhy, and how?  It worked for me, but I didn't do lots of testing.22:51
mok0A warning really22:51
persiaAre you running lucid?22:51
mok0persia: karmic22:52
* persia hunts source22:52
mok0persia: I only have one workstation for my work. I haven't dared to install lucid on it22:53
persiaheh.  Understood.22:53
persiamok0: I don't see any differences in build-arm-chroot between karmic and lucid.  Does mk-sbuild-lv work with your native architecture?22:56
geserpersia: syntax error in line 317 (else if -> elif)22:56
mok0persia: yes I had no problems making an amd64 sbuildier22:57
persiageser: Thanks.  Fixing.22:58
persiaOddly, both show correct with my syntax highlighting.22:58
mok0Hm, you don't need to be root to run mk-lv-sbuild, right? I forget22:58
geserI guess "else: if" would also work22:58
persiamok0: You shouldn't be ruut.  It runs with sudo22:59
persiageser: Committed the change to elif anyway.22:59
mok0It actually refuses to run with sudo22:59
geserpersia: E: Unknown option [--debootstrap=build-arm-chroot] was specified22:59
persiamok0: It uses sudo internally.22:59
persiageser: Hrm.  I think I have to investigate pbuilder code more.  The manpage seems to document --debootstrap, but it may trap "incorrect" values.23:00
geserpersia: s/=/ /23:00
persiaJust found that :)23:01
geserpersia: next one: E: unsupported architecture: --arch23:03
* persia was sure that was fixed, and looks again23:03
mok0Oh, hang on23:04
* geser has r57223:04
persiageser: I found the issue.  It will be in 57523:05
mok0the lvm partition was made, but schroot -l doesn't list it23:05
persiageser: pushed23:06
persiamok0: Did debootstrap complete?  It really worked for me.23:06
geserpersia: E: Couldn't download dists/lucid/main/binary-armel/Packages23:10
geserE: build-arm-chroot failed23:10
persiaGrr, mirror failure.23:10
* persia tries to figure out how that is set23:11
geserthat's the line for the mirror setting23:11
persiaIt doesn't seem to be very rich.  Compare to lines 233-281 in mk-sbuild-lv23:12
persiaHow does one do logical AND in python?23:16
geserTrue and False23:16
persiaSo http://paste.ubuntu.com/368530/ should (roughly) do the right thing?23:18
dooooomimok0: about your comment on klick's copyright file: it says that all samples are gpl, so i'm not sure what exactly is missing. maybe it's just the wording that's not clear enough?23:22
mok0dooooomi: hm? Let me check again23:23
mok0dooooomi: Indeed23:25
mok0dooooomi: however I still think the new format is better, and clearer23:26
mok0dooooomi: especially because there are several copyright holders23:27
dooooomimok0: yup, i'll just change it to the new format. seems like a good idea anyway23:30
mok0dooooomi: great23:32
jsplicei'm interested in contributing, but am a bit overwhelmed by all the stuff on the ubuntu site...was hoping someone could give me a push in the right direction23:32
jsplicei'm a java developer but would like to do some C++ stuff23:32
mok0jsplice: like what? Bugfixing?23:32
jspliceyea i think that would be a good place to start23:33
dooooomimok0: if i changed just the file format of a sample (in this case, C code to .wav), does that make me a copyright holder? or should i only mention the original copyright holder?23:33
persiajsplice: Have you already encountered some bugs in c++ programs, or would you like help finding them?23:33
mok0dooooomi: Copyright applies to the content, so no I wouldn't say so23:34
jsplicei would like to help find them, and hopefully expose my self to the source, to become more familiar with linux C++ development23:34
mok0dooooomi: otherwise, I could reformat an ebook and gain copyright :-)23:35
mok0dooooomi: 3. profit23:35
persiajsplice: Well, I'd suggest asking in #kubuntu-devel, as most of their stuff is in c++.  If you've no luck there, try here again, and we can maybe find something.23:35
=== cr3_ is now known as cr3
dooooomimok0: hehe, makes sense23:35
mok0jsplice: do you have an LP account?23:35
jsplicepersia: what is all the gnome stuff written in?23:35
jsplicemok0: yes23:36
persiaErm, one *does* gain copyright on a format shift, over the specific new media.  This doesn't grant copyright over either the original source, nor does it prevent others from converting themselves.23:36
mok0jsplice: you also need to become familiar with the general workflow on LP23:36
persiaErm, not quite.  GNOME is written in a special dialect of C :)23:36
persia(gobjects just don't belong in K&R)23:37
mok0persia: still C thought23:37
persiaWell, maybe :)23:37
RAOFBut object-oriented C, with closures & signals & a main loop.23:37
mok0AFAIK some of gnome developement is moving to C#23:37
mok0aka mono23:38
persiaI've also seen a fair bit of Vala23:38
jspliceC#...that's interesting23:38
Laneyc# is not (or should not be) aka mono23:38
RAOFAs long as you're not forced to directly interact with unmanaged code, GC is the bees knees & the ant's pyjamas.23:38
jsplicemok0: will becoming more familiar with LP make contributing an easier thing to approach?23:39
mok0jsplice: I would say definitely23:39
mok0jsplice: process a dozen bugs and you know much more23:40
jsplicemok0, by process, do you mean fix them?23:40
mok0jsplice: no23:40
mok0jsplice: look at it, see if you can reproduce it, find out if there is enough info for the -devs, ask contributor to provide more,23:41
mok0jsplice: etc23:41
mok0Lets see what ubotty says23:42
ubottuIf you find a bug in Ubuntu or any of its derivatives, please file a bug using the command « ubuntu-bug <package> » - See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs for other ways to report bugs - Bugs in/wishes for the IRC bots (not Ubuntu) can be filed at http://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-bots23:42
jsplicemok0, ok I understand what you mean now...what is the preferred IDE for this type of development?23:42
mok0jsplice: webbrowser?23:43
persiaThe best IDE is the one which makes you happy23:43
jspliceno i mean IDE for when i want to compile, debug, etc.23:43
jspliceif i want to reproduce the error and step through the source code23:43
mok0jsplice: You are asking because you are not familiar with Linux?23:44
jsplicemok0, for the most part yes...i use Eclipse at work for all my development23:44
mok0jsplice: ... doesn't that work for non-java projects?23:44
jsplicemok0, yes i believe it has a C/C++ plugin...i'm only asking because i didn't know if most ubuntu developers preferred a particular IDE for any reason23:45
mok0jsplice: I'm a CLI guy... I just use make, emacs, etc23:45
jspliceah ok23:45
mok0jsplice: so, I don't know much about IDEs. Theres Kdevelop for the Kubuntu stuff, codelite,... many others23:46
mok0jsplice: generally, I feel IDEs are getting in my way :-)23:48
mok0perhaps because I don't want to bother learning a program the does something I already know how to do :-)23:48
jsplicemok0, yea, that can be true sometimes...i use spring and Java at work, so i'm not used to all the low-level configuring of make and stuff like that23:48
jsplicemaven makes that easier for me with java development23:49
mok0jsplice: well, you probably will need to look at makefiles sometimes23:49
jsplicemok0, yea i figured it would be part of the learning process23:49
mok0jsplice: of course you can always come here to ask23:50
jsplicemok0, thanks, i appreciate it...i'm sure i will need help23:50
mok0jsplice: great! We really need it23:50
mok0jsplice: but first, see what you can learn about bug triaging23:51
geserpersia: looks like it works now, it's downloading the base system23:51
jsplicemok0, will that information by on the LP site?23:52
persiageser: Cool.  Thanks.  I'll double-check state,and upload.23:52
mok0jsplice: most tutorial stuff is on the wiki... here is one link to get you started : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Triaging23:52
jsplicemok0, ok great...thanks23:52
mok0jsplice: there are some LP teams you can join, some of them will get you further privileges23:53
jsplicemok0, ah ok23:54
mok0jsplice: for triaging, consider yourself as sitting in "the reception"... you will be the first one to look at a bug report23:54
mok0jsplice: and you have to get the bug report in shape, to spare the -devs from having to get additional info etc.23:55
jsplicemok0, ok i get it...so like you said, that person must try to reproduce the errors and get more info if needed23:55
mok0jsplice: if you can fix the bug yourself, so much better!23:55
mok0jsplice: right23:55
jsplicemok0, what repository management software is used for all of this? subversion?23:56
mok0jsplice: Ubuntu uses bazaar23:57
mok0jsplice: you don't need to use that if you don't want to23:58
mok0jsplice: if you fix a bug, the standard way is to attach a patch to the bug report23:58
jspliceok i see23:59
jsplicei've never heard of bazaar23:59
mok0jsplice: In the future, we may move towards a more bzr centric approach23:59
mok0jsplice: it is a DVCS mainly developed by Canonical23:59

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