[00:16] <phoenixz> This is also the channel for Kubuntu 10.04?
[00:16] <BUGabundo> yes
[00:21] <phoenixz> Okay.. actually, lucid rocks, works better and more stable than 9.10 (yes, I know lucid is alpha, but still, it works better!)
[00:22] <BUGabundo> ok
[00:22] <BUGabundo> hey AaronMT
[00:22] <phoenixz> only weird thing is that my auto hiding taskbar suddenly didnt come back anymore..
[00:22] <BUGabundo> LOL
[00:22] <phoenixz> its really hiding now.. but I dont need it
[00:23] <phoenixz> anyway, 9.10 had *horrible* performance due to intel driver, I suppose thats fixed now, since... well, lucid is nice?
[00:50] <Raydiation> wow lucid boots crazy fast in my vm
[00:51] <UbuntuUser> does vmware supports guestextensions in 10.04?
[00:52] <UbuntuUser> I ask because Im using virtualbox, and with vb it does not
[00:52] <Raydiation> UbuntuUser: it does
[00:53] <Raydiation> but i cant move the mouse outside the vm
[00:53] <Raydiation> i have to press the right ctrl
[00:53] <UbuntuUser> ok, so its the same like in vb
[00:54] <UbuntuUser> ty, goodnight
[00:57] <Raydiation> how come alphas got so stable?
[00:58] <kklimonda> Raydiation, it's LTS so there are no game breaking changes
[00:59] <RAOF> Apart for nouveau, perhaps :)
[01:04] <Raydiation> kklimonda: i thought an lts is like: as much beta into it as you can :D
[01:07] <kklimonda> Raydiation, no - that's all other releases, especially LTS-1 ;)
[01:08] <Raydiation> thats what i meant yes :)
[01:36] <Nafai> Has anyone else noticed after today's updates that whenever you press enter everything just locks up?
[01:38] <kklimonda> Nafai, you have intel card?
[01:38] <kklimonda> Nafai, I can vaguely remember chrisccoulson saying something about it today
[01:38] <Nafai> no, nvidia
[01:39] <chrisccoulson> Nafai / kklimonda - i get that with intel, although it's better now I boot without splash
[01:39] <chrisccoulson> but this laptop still freezes constantly. it locks up any time the display blanks
[01:40] <Nafai> ugh
[01:40] <Nafai> Kind of frustrating, trying to get a patch ready for release :)
[01:40] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, and you have spend so much time picking it up :/
[01:45] <Nafai> no known fix yet?
[01:52] <Raydiation> how do i create a .deb package for lucid?
[01:53] <Raydiation> all howtos in google are like 2004
[01:53] <bjsnider> Raydiation, look at the videos with dholbach on youtube called "motu packaging"
[01:54] <Raydiation> ty
[01:55] <bjsnider> the debian documentation that's out there is along the lines of "the changelog file is where you put your changes."
[01:55] <bjsnider> big help
[01:58] <Raydiation> bjsnider: the one from 2008?
[01:59] <bjsnider> there's a series of videos
[01:59] <Nafai> downgrading my nvidia driver fixed it
[02:00] <bjsnider> i'm not sure if they were from 2008 or not
[02:01] <Nafai> even so, the principles have not changed since 2008, or even 2004
[03:30] <WeatherGod> crimsun, ping
[03:31] <crimsun> WeatherGod: pong
[03:31] <WeatherGod> hey, I noticed something  interesting the other day...
[03:31] <WeatherGod> while I was shutting down Lucid, the shutdown hanged for quite a while
[03:32] <WeatherGod> and finally, before closing out, it said that the alsa-setting daemon (or something like that) failed
[03:32] <crimsun> "alsa-setting daemon"?
[03:33] <WeatherGod> it flashed by before blacking out... it was something to do with alsa and settings
[03:33] <crimsun> alactl?
[03:33] <WeatherGod> I doubt I would have thought that
[03:34] <crimsun> I'm afraid I can't do much unless it's reproducible and you have the precise error/warning
[03:34] <WeatherGod> ok... give me a few minutes to try it out...
[03:42] <rww> Where did the settings from System -> Preferences -> Appearance -> Interface get moved to?
[03:55] <WeatherGod> crimsun, I couldn't reproduce it... go figure...
[03:56] <crimsun> looks like a race condition
[03:56] <crimsun> you're certain it had to do with alsa, thougH?
[03:56] <WeatherGod> I will be sure to take a closer note of my shutdowns to see if I ever catch it again
[03:56] <WeatherGod> I could have sworn it said "alsa" and "settings"
[03:56] <crimsun> there's only one thing that relates to alsa on reboot/shutdown, and that's the storing of mixer levels, which would be alsactl.
[03:57] <WeatherGod> the question that  pops into my mind is that this would be after the unmounting of the file systems
[03:57] <WeatherGod> which might explain why it is hanging
[03:57] <crimsun> yes, I would need to tighten the upstart job deps
[03:58] <WeatherGod> maybe it is only happening on the first shutdowns?
[03:58] <crimsun> that would still be a race
[03:58] <WeatherGod> which may explain why I don't see it every time
[03:58] <crimsun> FWIW, hwclock-save is prone to the same race
[03:58] <WeatherGod> hmm
[03:59] <WeatherGod> well, I am downloading today's snapshot
[03:59] <WeatherGod> I will try it again with a fresh snapshot and see if it happens again
[03:59] <WeatherGod> looks like somebody got their act together in cleaning up packages...
[04:00] <crimsun> while it would be an annoying error, it isn't fatal
[04:00] <WeatherGod> yesterday's snapshot was 703mb, this one is 550mb
[04:00] <crimsun> PA will restore the volumes regardless
[04:00] <WeatherGod> yeah, but you know how many bug reports we will get for computers that "won't shutdown"
[04:00] <crimsun> arguably it's silly to have alsactl /and/ PA do that...
[04:01] <crimsun> I don't think this one is the /sole/ culprit
[04:01] <WeatherGod> well, is it just in case someone wants to use alsa by itself?
[04:01] <crimsun> like I said, hwclock-save is prone to the same race.
[04:02] <WeatherGod> because PA is teh suxs?
[04:02] <WeatherGod> :P
[04:04] <crimsun> need to find out if there're semantics for guaranteeing the availability of virtual-filesystems /and/ runlevel [06]
[04:04] <WeatherGod> I have no familiarity with upstart... but it sounds like a reasonable feature
[04:06] <WeatherGod> all my familiarity is with initscripts in the red hat distros
[04:07] <crimsun> Fedora has had upstart for at least a couple releases
[04:08] <WeatherGod> but, i only mess around with initscripts on my servers, which are RHEL
[04:08] <WeatherGod> work machine is F11, while home machine is Ubuntu
[04:11] <WeatherGod> unfortunately, I haven't had any time to mess around and explore newer systems like I used to
[04:11] <WeatherGod> although, I have been finding and reporting a bunch of bugs with various python toolkits
[04:14] <WeatherGod> crimsun, btw, the guys on that system bell bug has learned to use git, and has made a merge request with the metacity git branch
[04:16] <crimsun> WeatherGod: good
[04:17] <WeatherGod> nice to see those guys follow through on that... because I think they were the only ones to really understand what was going on
[04:17] <crimsun> eh, not really
[04:17] <crimsun> they've kinda papered over a use case for metacity
[04:18] <crimsun> it'll still break for non-compiz and non-metacity
[04:18] <WeatherGod> well, I think it was more trying to solve the odd issue of metacity catching the system bell when it shouldn't have, I think
[04:18] <crimsun> to fix it properly, you need quite some integration from linux (alsa-kernel) up through pulseaudio and libcanberra
[04:19] <WeatherGod> hmm... maybe so, I forget the details of the guy's analysis
[04:20] <WeatherGod> he seemed to split it into two issues and dealt with the metacity issue first
[04:20] <crimsun> the metacity one is the easiest
[04:20] <crimsun> the actual system beep one is much more convoluted
[04:20] <crimsun> we won't see the linux-side fixes for that until likely 2.6.36
[04:21] <WeatherGod> but, that's the one that's on the board itself... why does any of that have to touch PA and stuff
[04:21] <crimsun> 1. there is no uniform handling of pc speaker in current linux
[04:21] <crimsun> ( i.e., wait until the next merge window for 2.6.34 )
[04:22] <crimsun> 2. there is no uniform handling of pc speaker in PA
[04:23] <crimsun> some of it touches acpi, some of it is restricted to the ac'97/hda controller+codec
[04:23] <WeatherGod> is the pc speaker the same thing as the system bell?
[04:23] <crimsun> no
[04:23] <crimsun> however, in the past the system bell was played through the pc speaker
[04:23] <crimsun> now it's rather haphazardly handled by acpi/alsa
[04:23] <WeatherGod> I thought the guy was talking about the same thing that beeps on startup
[04:24] <crimsun> see above
[04:24] <crimsun> we can't touch bios bits until linux has actually bootstrapped
[04:25] <WeatherGod> ok, and then it is dealt with through acpi?
[04:25] <crimsun> not necessarily
[04:25] <crimsun> it's entirely vendor-dependent
[04:25] <WeatherGod> heh... fun
[04:26] <WeatherGod> it is a wonder any of this stuff works at all
[04:29] <WeatherGod> so, any idea what the next growing pains will be for the kernel?
[04:29] <crimsun> lkml is the canonical discussion of that
[04:29] <WeatherGod> ?
[04:30] <WeatherGod> oh
[04:30] <WeatherGod> linux kernel mailing list?
[04:30] <crimsun> (yes)
[04:30] <WeatherGod> I'm slow on acronyms
[05:11] <DanaG> weird issue: I had to remove the fancy gtk audio thingy (canberra-gtk-module?) to get rid of those stupid sounds when running gnome apps under kde.
[05:11] <DanaG> Pyuuu!
[05:11] <DanaG> yeah, window-minimize sound.
[07:20] <Viper1432> I'm just gonna put this out here cuz' the room is so quiet, BUT....the new alpha2 has got to be the fastest booting/ most responsive spin I've seen since I started using ubuntu (warty).  Amazing stuff.
[07:23] <dupondje> crap :)
[07:23] <dupondje> new bug in gnome-do
[07:25] <ZykoticK9> Viper1432, I to am really enjoying Alpha2 - really nice change from my disappointment with Karmic (which I feel even more strongly now, was more-or-less a beta for Lucid)
[07:26] <Viper1432> only thing I've found so far, issue wise, is open office really doesn't like the "dust" theme as its main menu bar is blacked out.  Not much disagreement ZykoticK9 .  I'm seriously considering moving up to lucid for my main box.
[07:28] <Viper1432> now rather than at release.  On my 7 year old x1000 laptop, lucid boots in 22 seconds, and shuts down in 4 seconds flat, plus gnome /compiz actually work on it again with no monster hit to performance.  shocked the hell out of me.
[07:28] <ZykoticK9> Viper1432, i'm using it a dual-boot with 9.10 and haven't been back to karmic yet!  i'm loving lucid - the HUGE daily updates is a drag, but it's such a step in the right direction from karmic!  my biggest show stoppers right now are Handbrake & gnome-do not working :(
[07:29] <Viper1432> nods, but then again ZykoticK9  that's why they call it "alpha".  heh heh
[07:29] <ZykoticK9> Viper1432, OH it's WAY to early to be "using" but hey, i'm really impressed with Alpha quality :)  good sign i'd say
[07:30] <Viper1432> ditto.  I test with the laptop, so if it goes "boom", its an easy fix/backout/reinstall.  The main box is using karmic, but I'm really unhappy with memory usage.
[07:32] <ZykoticK9> Viper1432, I was amazed at bootup/shudown when I first switched to Karmic, the Karmic-to-Lucid speed is much improved again!  Loving it!
[07:32] <ZykoticK9> Viper1432, do you use Nvidia gfx?  seems like Lucid is made for Nvidia now.
[07:33] <Viper1432> I use proprietary nvidia.  Just volunteered to assist QA with nvidia testing + lucid, but hadn't heard back yet.  noveau is nice, but its not "there" yet for 3d/compositing and I'm NOT willing to give up VDPAU for video acceleration.
[07:34] <ZykoticK9> it's the proprietary Nvidia that's getting all the special treatment in Lucid!  that's what's so awsome.  I've never played with noveau.
[07:35] <Viper1432> And actually its not very "nvidia" friendly, at least from the boot standpoint with nvidia drivers.  Plymouth is "in", and it requires KMS which doesn't work with the 190.xx drivers.  Its another reason for the additional testing I'm betting.
[07:35] <Viper1432> See right now, there are issues even installing the 190.xx drivers due to noveau being in the kernel.
[07:35] <Viper1432> (not horrible issues, but there are some.)
[07:35] <rww> The Free ATI drivers work with Compiz in Lucid :)
[07:36] <Viper1432> might be so rww, but I wouldn't use an ATI card unless someone put a gun to my head.  Toooo many bad things with ati +me over the years.
[07:36] <ZykoticK9> rww, really?  wow - that's actually impressive [I can't stand ATI, and don't understand why AMD bought them]
[07:37] <hyperstream> Same here, why the heck did they buy ATI...
[07:37] <rww> ZykoticK9: Yep. xserver-xorg-video-radeon has been getting much, much better as of late. Don't know if AMD had something to do with it; wouldn't surprise me :)
[07:37] <Viper1432> because AMD wanted to be more competitve with Intel, and guess what intel has that AMD did not?
[07:37] <ZykoticK9> hyperstream, AMD a company i love + ATI a company I avoid = unhappy
[07:37] <rww> It's already been better than fglrx at 2D acceleration for a while.
[07:38] <hyperstream> ZykoticK9, ditto :)
[07:38] <DanaG> I'm using the open drivers now.
[07:39] <DanaG> Even does compiz well.
[07:39] <vish> isnt ATI a part of AMD ?  [or have i been under a rock o.0  ]
[07:39] <DanaG> I just can't use KMS until they bring the power usage down.
[07:39] <Viper1432> vish, yes...amd owns ATI.
[07:39] <rww> vish: AMD bought ATI a while back
[07:39] <vish> yay , i'm not totally ignorant :D
[07:40] <Viper1432> lol
[07:42] <ZykoticK9> Viper1432, do you know is vdpau supported in mplayer on Lucid?  i'm getting "Could not open dynamic library libvdpau.so.1"
[07:43] <vish> KMS wfm fine with the free ATI drivers
[07:43] <vish> just a bit slow when i use extra animations :/
[07:44] <Viper1432> I haven't messed with it yet ZykoticK9 .  I'm currently just testing an old x1000 lappy with builtin 9200 radeon.  This weekend I'm going to set up a partition on the main box and test with my gtx260OC.  AND just fyi, but the vdpau libraries are now a separate package you can snag from nvidia.
[07:44] <ZykoticK9> Viper1432, thanks
[07:45] <Viper1432> np.  ZykoticK9  this is "the" place to be for nvidia info:  http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=14
[07:45] <Viper1432> the nvidia devs hang out there and link the latest prod and beta drivers in that section.
[07:45] <ZykoticK9> Viper1432, thanks again
[07:45] <Viper1432> np
[07:52] <Viper1432> just fyi Zyk  new beta nvidia driver is up and in the notes has this:   Fix the soname of libvdpau_nvidia.so.1 and libvdpau_trace.so.1 to match their filenames.
[07:53] <Viper1432> Oh and mplayer does fully support VDPAU, but you have to get the PPA beta for it to work properly.  the 'release' mplayer doesn't function as well.  My recommendation is to get the very latest smplayer.  All the vdpau stuff already ''set".
[07:54] <Viper1432> ...or compile the latest svn mplayer.
[07:55] <ZykoticK9> Viper1432, well thanks AGAIN
[07:55] <Viper1432> :)
[07:56] <dupondje> ZykoticK9: gnome-do can be fixed by manually installing libgnome-desktop-2-11
[08:02] <ZykoticK9> dupondje, THANK YOU - oh that's excellent
[08:03] <ZykoticK9> dupondje, well so much for my first submitted but lol
[08:05] <dupondje> ZykoticK9: its a good submission, its a missing dependency, needs to be fixed for sure
[08:05] <dupondje> but this is a good workaround ;)
[08:06] <Viper1432> only thing I'm finding right now is open office's main menu + dust theme.  as usual OO has fits with some themes.
[08:06] <ZykoticK9> dupondje, i really appreciated you pointing it out to me
[09:33] <indus> anyone using ATI with s3tc support ?
[09:59] <theadmin> I heard there will be no GIMP in Lucid. Is that true? If so, will there be any kind of graphical editor built-in at all?
[10:00] <indus> theadmin, yes a simpler one like paint
[10:00] <theadmin> indus: Ah. gpaint I believe?
[10:00] <indus> theadmin, there is a new video editor too called pitivi
[10:01] <indus> theadmin, probably, but we believe when it appears in menu, as of now i dont see
[10:01] <indus> theadmin, yes i heard too its gpaint
[10:01] <theadmin> Actually, so far in all those paint thinks MSpaint is STILL the winner. Why is there no undo in gpaint? :/
[10:02] <indus> frankly i dont know whats the use of MSpaint either
[10:02] <indus> also gthumb will appear i think
[10:11] <switchgirl> hi
[10:16] <switchgirl> grub-pc installation failed on alpha3
[10:43] <Mike1> Hey! Is anyone able to use the fglrx driver under Lucid?
[10:45] <RAOF> I don't think so, not yet.
[11:02] <BUGabundo> mOrnInG
[11:57] <coz_> hey guys... just rebooted... get a "green" screen too quick to read...boots to log on screen and mouse and keyboard dont work although both are lit up
[12:59] <LimCore_> hi, are OpenPGP keys of ubuntu deverlopers signed with something hard coded into ubuntu? that would be nice for apt-get source
[13:00] <LimCore_> I got key 01AA4A64: public key "Steve Langasek <steve.langasek@canonical.com>" imported  but how should one verify this key?
[13:01] <LimCore_> checking https://launchpad.net/~vorlon is one option... any others?
[13:01] <BUGabundo> LimCore_: humm keyserver.ubuntu.com ?
[13:02] <LimCore_> BUGabundo: how I know there is no MITM ?
[13:03] <LimCore_> its over ssl with known cert?
[13:03] <BUGabundo> check it for your self
[13:04] <BUGabundo> all data there is mirrored to all PGP servers like MIT, and PGP org
[13:04] <alkisg> Has anyone else been experiencing very frequent kernel hangings with the latest updates?
[13:05] <alkisg> It also happened in a non-X session for me...
[13:06] <alkisg> I have to use my older Karmic installation until the problem is resolved, the system won't stay up for more than 1-2 minutes
[13:06] <LimCore_> BUGabundo: only way to be sure is to have something hard coded into the distro itself, like apt keys are. Perhaps it would be nice if all ubuntu developers keys would be signed with one master key and this one would be hard coded (or ebven by default trusted?) or something.. good idea? :)
[13:07] <BUGabundo> alkisg: wfm
[13:07] <alkisg> Hmmmm :(
[13:08] <alkisg> Thanks BUGabundo, I needed a reinstallation anyway (amd64 => i386), so I guess now is the time :)
[13:09]  * BUGabundo if only I could use http://www.netboot.me to boot lucid dailiies
[13:09] <BUGabundo> are you going 32bits alkisg? why ?
[13:09] <BUGabundo> alkisg: test your MEMORIES
[13:09] <alkisg> BUGabundo: no no nothing like that
[13:09] <alkisg> The i386 switch is for development, it's something LTSP-related
[13:10] <alkisg> My hardware is fine, I've been using it 15 hours per day for the last years, and it also works fine on Karmic right now
[13:10] <BUGabundo> what GPu?
[13:11] <alkisg> nvidia 8600 mobile
[13:11] <alkisg> The problem was there with nvidia, with nv, and without X.
[13:12] <alkisg> Sometimes the keyboard leds were blinking and REISUB didn't work, sometimes I could just stop X with ctrl+alt+ptrsc+k...
[13:12] <alkisg> It just happened this morning
[13:18] <BUGabundo> alkisg: what kernel ?
[13:18] <BUGabundo> better, what HW?
[13:18] <alkisg> BUGabundo: the latest one as of this morning
[13:18] <BUGabundo> I got an 8400 GM and works fine
[13:18] <alkisg> (i'm on karmic i386, I can't chroot to amd64)
[13:18] <BUGabundo> Linux BluBUG 2.6.32-12-generic #16-Ubuntu SMP Thu Jan 28 07:47:05 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[13:18] <BUGabundo> yeah that sucks :\
[13:19] <alkisg> lspci: http://paste.ubuntu.com/368864/
[13:19] <BUGabundo> yeah nothing to fancy there
[13:19] <alkisg> I was also seeing some X corruption
[13:19] <BUGabundo> better see if you can SSH into it the next crash
[13:20] <BUGabundo> and get a kernel trace
[13:20] <BUGabundo> and post to LP, and ping a kernel dev
[13:20] <alkisg> I.e., two half cursors cursor blinking on the top of my gnome screen! :)
[13:20] <BUGabundo> nothing even close to that here
[13:20] <alkisg> But ok I said that's an nvidia problem => but then it crashed with nv, and even without X...
[13:21] <alkisg> OK, I'll switch to i386 and if I get that again, I'll try to get a kernel dump. Thanks!
[13:42] <indus> anyone using ati open drivers?
[13:42] <Pici> Yes.
[13:42] <indus> anyone using it with s3 tc library for texture compression?
[13:43] <indus> Pici, hi,
[13:43] <Pici> I don't know the answer to the second question.
[13:44] <indus> Pici, actually , mm to run certain games , the driver needs s3 texture compression technology as a separate compile, it works but i think doesnt work with mesa 7.7
[13:44] <indus> due to IP issues, its not in Mesa, so external library
[13:45] <indus> you dont play any doom3 or other?
[13:45] <indus> Pici, would you like to read about it? i give you link
[13:46] <Pici> No, I rarely play games on my laptop, which is what I use for testing.
[13:46] <indus> Pici, ok ,i just wanted to see performance of these games with the open driver,
[13:47] <indus> Pici, http://homepage.hispeed.ch/rscheidegger/dri_experimental/s3tc_index.html just for interesting reading
[13:47] <indus> ill post on the forums this question, that maybe better
[13:52] <indus> will f spot be replaced?
[13:53] <kklimonda> indus, no, I don't think so.
[13:53] <indus> kklimonda, so i heard
[13:54] <indus> kklimonda, and the name is pathetic too
[13:54] <indus> kklimonda, isnt it in ubuntu wishlists?
[13:54] <indus> good thing now the scan tool is called simple scan
[13:54] <kklimonda> indus, just about everything can be found on ubuntu "wishlists"
[13:55] <indus> kklimonda, i mean approved ones
[13:56] <BUGabundo> no
[13:56] <BUGabundo> that's GIMP
[13:56] <indus> ok
[13:56] <indus> thanks
[13:56] <BUGabundo> fspot will replace gimp
[13:56] <BUGabundo> well, not replace
[13:56] <indus> BUGabundo, ?
[13:56] <BUGabundo> but take its place
[13:56] <indus> BUGabundo, f spot is already there so how can it take its place
[13:56] <BUGabundo> that's what I said
[13:57] <indus> BUGabundo, ok
[13:57] <indus> thanks
[13:59] <indus> BUGabundo, there si on brainstrom i see
[13:59] <Italian_Plumber> Good morning.  I'm having trouble with the restricted drivers for the wireless in my Dell Latitude E5500.  Where do I go to find out if a bug has already been reported?  What should I search for?
[13:59] <void^_> i hope that means f-spot will see some improvements
[13:59] <Italian_Plumber> ^^ in Lucid Alpha2
[14:01] <charlie-tca> Italian_Plumber: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[14:01] <indus> i find it complicated to use
[14:01] <charlie-tca> But it is having issues today, and you may find you get an "Oops!" error
[14:02] <indus> i hope they stop naming apps with f and g and other
[14:03] <indus> f spot poorly tags things and then forgets about it'
[14:04] <indus> so what else is new in lucid as of today?
[14:04] <indus> anything interesting
[14:04] <Italian_Plumber> yeah I did.  'sokay... I can't report it quite yet anyway
[14:04] <warriorforgod> [sty
[14:04] <Italian_Plumber> I had this same problem with Karmic -- I just went back to jaunty
[14:04] <indus> yes i have one problem btw with live cd, it probes for floppy for 10 min
[14:04] <Italian_Plumber> I use the live CD on my laptop all the time
[14:05] <BUGabundo> where the heck is : in the english keyb???? BABABAHAAH
[14:06] <Italian_Plumber> indus: You don't have a floppy drive?
[14:06] <indus> Italian_Plumber, i have disconnected it from motherboard
[14:06] <charlie-tca> BUGabundo: shifted-semicolon, second key to the left of the enter key?
[14:06] <BUGabundo> Ç found it
[14:07] <indus> what exactly is this love for floppies really, ever since karmic it wants to probe a device which hardly anyone uses
[14:07] <indus> i read it was fixed long ago but i see it appear in a lucid daily live downloaded few days ago
[14:07] <void^_> did you disable the floppy in your bios?
[14:08] <BUGabundo> charlie-tca: using BKO to boot daily images eheh GEEK
[14:09] <indus> void^_, no such option in bios i searched
[14:09]  * indus wonders why would anyone have a need to disable floppy in bios , or a cdrom or HDD for that matter
[14:09] <void^_> strange, there should be an option to configure the floppy controller, and/or disable the floppy controller
[14:10] <indus> void^_, no there isnt, i have the bios by heart now
[14:10] <indus> void^_, its not there on all bioses
[14:10] <charlie-tca> void^_: depends on the system. There were systems produced with no provision for floppy dirves
[14:10] <indus> void^_, why is it needed
[14:10] <charlie-tca> s/dirves/drives
[14:11] <void^_> well if they come with floppy controllers they should come with options to configure them..
[14:11] <indus> i disconnected the floppy cable since karmic went all crazy searching for her long lost floppy drive , but now here the love back with lucid
[14:12] <indus> luckily after install it doesnt waste much time so it boots fine
[14:12] <indus> maybe file a bug for live cd?
[14:14] <Italian_Plumber> disabled or not, it shouldn't probe for it for 10 min
[14:17] <indus> Italian_Plumber, and i get this message 'stdin : error 0  ' then buffer something on /dev/fd0 etc
[14:17] <indus> Italian_Plumber, atleast 20 times
[14:19] <void^_> perhaps you can configure/disable the floppy controller using jumpers?
[14:21] <indus> void^_, its ok, but i dont have the guts to do that, after install its ok , and probably should be fixed in a future live cd build
[14:22] <indus> void^_, i mean, i finished installation and it boots fine but does probe for floppy still even though i disconected cable
[14:22] <indus> ok nvm i gtg now
[14:22] <indus> thanks all
[14:23] <indus> happy testing
[14:23] <void^_> well, floppies aren't plug&play. not unplug&play either.
[14:24] <Italian_Plumber> moving jumpers isn't something you'd expect grandma to do
[14:40] <Mike1> mhhh could it be that storage-devices do not appear in PCManFM because of the removed HAL?
[14:40] <Mike1> is there a way to get it working again?
[14:41] <Mike1> (except installing HAL)
[14:45] <cwillu_at_work> grub2, you hold shift for the menu?
[14:46] <cwillu_at_work> and if that doesn't work, how does one get into the grub menu?
[14:48] <ikt> esc?
[14:48] <ikt> grub2 is hold down shift though
[14:50]  * cwillu_at_work grumbles about perfectly good things that work everywhere consistently being replaced by unproven techniques in order to save one second :p
[14:50] <cwillu_at_work> shift doesn't work, I've tried both, held down during the whole boot
[14:51] <cwillu_at_work> there's a non-zero chance that I edited grub correctly from an initramfs prompt, lets see :p
[14:51] <cwillu_at_work> but still, just because I got to an initramfs this time doesn't mean I'm happy :p
[14:57] <avb> guys, does lucid freeze on startup is a known bug?
[14:57] <avb> i just upgraded from karmic
[14:57] <avb> to lucid
[14:57] <avb> no gdm, no console, no recovery mode :)
[14:59] <kklimonda> avb, have you tried booting without splash?
[14:59] <avb> yeh
[14:59] <avb> i already tried with plymouth installed and not :)
[14:59] <avb> any way to make upstart more verbose?
[15:00] <kklimonda> good question
[15:00] <kklimonda> the documentation mentions that you can change init to init=/sbin/init --debug in the kernel command line but I've never tried that myself
[15:01] <avb> btw
[15:01] <avb> cat i see lucid fstab from someone ?
[15:02] <kklimonda> http://pastebin.com/f65699524
[15:02] <avb> thanks
[15:02] <avb> ok
[15:02] <avb> seems nothing new here
[15:02] <avb> thanks
[15:03] <avb> ill try --debug hint now
[15:15] <avb> heh
[15:15] <avb> debug seems works
[15:15] <avb> but then something clears screen
[15:15] <avb> and there is just cursor appears
[15:16] <avb> seems kms related
[15:17] <ikt> cwillu_at_work: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1394473
[15:17] <avb> lol
[15:17] <ikt> looks like an issue with grub
[15:17] <avb> any thoughts?
[15:18] <avb> still just a blinking cursor on boot
[15:18]  * cwillu_at_work reads the ubuntuforums post in the vain hope that ubuntuforums might actually be good for something for a change
[15:18] <avb> im on intel lenovo x61 laptop
[15:18] <avb> i965
[15:18] <avb> nomodeset seems makes no effect
[15:18] <cwillu_at_work> ikt, is there anything relevant in there, or is it just 8 pages of people noting that it doesn't work followed by voodoo chicken attempts to "fix" it?
[15:20] <ikt> 8 pages of people noting
[15:31] <cwillu_at_work> (gone, was just checking if I had reported it before, but launchpad seems to be down)
[15:58] <greg-g> is anyone having issues with Tomboy on Lucid? It won't start for me: http://pastebin.com/d722d7a2c
[15:58] <greg-g> fresh install, btw
[15:58] <greg-g> a search of LP returned nothing that looked "promising"
[16:00] <kklimonda> greg-g, it's reported already
[16:00] <greg-g> kklimonda: hrmm..
[16:00]  * greg-g looks again
[16:00] <greg-g> :)
[16:01] <greg-g> thanks
[16:01] <kklimonda> greg-g, it may be easier to check ubuntu forums for the posts about it - there is a big topic in the lucid subforum
[16:02] <kklimonda> greg-g, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/tomboy/+bug/516210 (i got a link from history)
[16:02] <greg-g> ah yes, the forums....
[16:22] <charlie-tca> tomboy on lucid does seem to be a sometimes thing. Today it is working for me, first time this week it started
[16:33] <switchgirl> at times lucid can lock and not send any display signal to my monitor at others it doesnt lock
[17:09] <drhalan> hey. did nvidia-current break (again)?
[17:09] <drhalan> can't install the dkms modules here
[17:58] <booboo> hey guys,,nvidia "version current" is which driver version?
[18:01] <BUGabundo> !info nvidia-current
[18:01] <gord> nvidia seems slightly hosed today huh
[18:04] <bjsnider> 190.53
[18:04] <BUGabundo> still wfm
[18:04] <BUGabundo> I guess I better not reboot :D
[18:04] <gord> rebooting into an older kernel makes nv work at least
[18:51] <zniavre_> hello , im stuck with gdm login (keyboard/mouse frozen) but i can access gnome with startx is it known ?
[18:52] <douglasawh-work> is network-manager-openconnect working currently?
[18:53] <BUGabundo> zniavre ppl reported it yesterday
[18:53] <BUGabundo> and today nvidia seems to be bad too
[18:56] <zniavre_> BUGabundo, fresh install im using nvidia 173 xxx quite nicely
[18:56] <zniavre_> thnak you for answering
[18:57] <marienz> is the rhythmbox builtin volume slider being relatively useless a rhythmbox, pulseaudio or hardware thing?
[18:57] <marienz> it only has three settings here: off, medium and loud. Most of the middle region doesn't perceptibly change volume.
[19:20] <alkisg> Today's (or yesterday's) updates hang my amd64 lucid installation (blinking caps lock, REISUB/ping not working).
[19:20] <alkisg> I downloaded the i386 daily-live an hour ago and got the same thing from the usb stick
[19:21] <alkisg> Could I do something useful to help resolve that problem? (i.e. not just file a "my pc crashes" bug :))
[19:22] <alkisg> It's not a hardware problem, I've been working all day on my karmic installation just fine.
[19:24] <marienz> alkisg: I've had some success using netconsole to debug that kind of thing, assuming you're in X when it crashes and can't get at the last few lines of kernel log
[19:24] <marienz> alkisg: that wasn't on ubuntu though, I'm not sure how hard this is to do there.
[19:24] <alkisg> marienz: would that work even if REISUB/ping doesn't ?
[19:25] <marienz> alkisg: it might, since if you're lucky the kernel is still getting some messages out that way before it locks up completely
[19:25] <marienz> hang on
[19:25] <marienz> alkisg: only useful if you have a second host networked though.
[19:26] <alkisg> Ah, got it. And monitor the network messages.
[19:26] <alkisg> marienz: thank you, I'll give that a look. I'll try to see if I can roll back the updates, though...
[19:26] <alkisg> *first
[19:26] <marienz> also, it would help if I could remember the netcat to run on the receiving end
[19:27] <alkisg> netcat -l -u -p 6666
[19:27] <marienz> it's documented in /usr/share/doc/linux-doc/networking/netconsole.txt.gz
[19:27] <alkisg> netcat -l -p 6666 -u 2>&1 | tee /var/log/netconsole &
[19:27] <marienz> I've used that to get a bit more info on some kms-related hangs I got
[19:27] <alkisg> Doesn't sound hard...
[19:27] <alkisg> Right, that's what I was about to ask right next
[19:28] <yofel> avb: do you get a 'freeze' or does just the boot seem to stop? I updated my desktop today, rebooted and now the boot stops right after switching to tty7, I can switch ttys fine but the boot stops before the consoles are created...
[19:28] <alkisg> Any way to completely disable any kms related stuff? (nvidia)
[19:28] <marienz> I don't know a thing about current nvidia, sorry.
[19:28] <alkisg> (I also got a hang with nv and with plain console, though...)
[19:29] <avb>  yofel, yeh, thats what i have, plus there ys no ttys
[19:29] <yofel> avb: well, I mean, I can use F1-9 fine, but the ttys aren't yet started so I have no way to login, same?
[19:29] <alkisg> marienz: thank you :)
[19:30] <marienz> alkisg: hope it helps
[19:31] <avb> yofel: ah, yes :)
[19:31] <yofel> avb: good, er I mean... bad -.-
[19:31] <avb> exactly same issue
[19:32] <avb> who knows, probably thats for good :)
[19:32] <avb> good point to switch finally to debian
[19:32] <avb> i was to lazy to finish my debian desktop
[19:32] <yofel> heh
[19:32] <avb> at least debian doesnt have all this that that you need to remove all the time
[19:33] <alkisg> Here's the list of updates that gave me the hanging problem, would it be possible to force a mass downgrade? http://alkisg.pastebin.com/d556fecc
[19:36] <ZykoticK9> you all where scaring me about restarting...  but reboot successfully :)
[19:37] <alex_mayorga> how did you guys enabled nvidia in the first place?
[19:37] <alex_mayorga> jockey won't do for now as I read from the alpha notes
[19:38] <ZykoticK9> alex_mayorga, according to the alpha2 notes, you can't use the "Hardware Drivers" interface with nvidia yet - but that's what I was able to use?
[19:39] <yofel> ZykoticK9: I think the fixed jockey is in lucid now
[19:39] <alex_mayorga> ZykoticK9, I see, yet it failed for me yesterday
[19:39] <ZykoticK9> yofel, it must be
[19:39] <alex_mayorga> garbled gdm
[19:43] <switchgirl> how to unblock a exe
[19:43] <switchgirl> "The file '/home/switch-testing/Documents/ConsentForms.exe' is not marked as executable.  If this was downloaded or copied form an untrusted source, it may be dangerous to run.  For more details, read about the executable bit."
[19:43] <avb> :) thats a good one
[19:44] <CardinalFang> switchgirl, what your goal?
[19:44] <switchgirl> run the file
[19:44] <avb> sudo aptitude install wine
[19:44] <ZykoticK9> switchgirl, are you familiar with wine/exe use?  after installing wine, if it isn't, try "wine /home/switch-testing/Documents/ConsentForms.exe"
[19:45] <switchgirl> http://www.baus.org.uk/information_links/procedure_specific_consent_forms.phtml
[19:45] <switchgirl> the exe is there
[19:45] <ZykoticK9> switchgirl, that is a ZIPed EXE by the looks of it...
[19:45] <CardinalFang> switchgirl, you probably want #ubuntu , btw.  Here, right-click on that file, choose "properties", then  "permissions."
[19:46] <switchgirl> yeah i tried all that ZykoticK9 CardinalFang
[19:46] <CardinalFang> switchgirl, tried what?
[19:46] <switchgirl> d/l and installed wine, wine blocks it
[19:46] <CardinalFang> switchgirl, so you didn't follow what I said?
[19:47] <switchgirl> ahh ok
[19:47] <void^_> unzip works on that one
[19:47] <switchgirl> yeah run as programme darm simple one
[19:48] <CardinalFang> switchgirl, some "exe" files are simple program-wrapped containers of other files.
[19:49] <ZykoticK9> switchgirl, i was able to use wine-1.1.37 on Lucid to run/extract the file - it does work
[19:49] <CardinalFang> You should be able to dump that file into  "file-roller"  program and get its contents.
[19:49] <CardinalFang> switchgirl, stop.  ^^
[19:50] <CardinalFang> switchgirl, you don't need 'wine' in this case.
[19:50] <CardinalFang> switchgirl, it's simpler than that.
[19:50] <ZykoticK9> switchgirl, as CardinalFang says it does open in File-Roller as well
[19:50] <switchgirl> i unzipped it
[19:50] <switchgirl> its working fine
[19:50] <switchgirl> thanks
[19:51] <switchgirl> thought it was a lucid bug
[20:09] <Nafai> What's the appropriate action to take if a package from universe is uninstallable because a dependency is unavailable?  File a bug on the uninstallable package?
[20:10] <CardinalFang> Nafai, best is to make a note and wait about two days and check again.  The repo is stirred to a froth right now, more than usual.
[20:11] <Nafai> Ok, thanks
[20:14] <DavidJHeinrich> I rebooted my computer using the latest LiveCD for Linux (10.04 Liquid LTS) to test recording with my onboard audio...it does not work. Should I report a bug in that driver? how?
[20:15] <ZykoticK9> regarding PPAs without lucid support, is it a bad idea to simply edit the sources file and swap lucid for karmic?  I'm particularly interested in the mplayer-vdpau archive -- I have already made the switch and successfully installed mplayer with vdpau support, I'm really just wondering if this is a BAD idea (i'm sure it's not great, but is it bad?)
[20:19] <ZykoticK9> DavidJHeinrich, for general bug submission directions see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs it isn't too hard by the way
[20:19] <marienz> ZykoticK9: I'd rebuild the .deb for lucid, but that's easy for me to say since I already have a ppa set up and know the basics
[20:19] <DavidJHeinrich> Zykotick9: thank you
[20:19] <charlie-tca> ZykoticK9: the biggest problem is the dependencies, when you use the karmic files in lucid.
[20:20] <charlie-tca> They may fall apart any day, depending on what is changed/upgraded for lucid
[20:20] <ZykoticK9> marienz, thanks but my packaging abilities end with checkinstall :)
[20:30] <CardinalFang> ZykoticK9, PPAs are a temporary stop-gap measure.  There's no good policy or best-practices because one should not use PPAs unless you're testing.  The best thing to do is get the right package uploaded the official repo.
[20:31] <ZykoticK9> CardinalFang, thanks - i certainly agree
[20:31] <CardinalFang> The first "p" does stand for "personal", after all.  If Bob dies, you are screwed.
[20:32] <ZykoticK9> CardinalFang, it is unfortunate that mplayer from repo doesn't have Nvidia vdpau support... thus going to PPA
[20:33] <CardinalFang> ZykoticK9, er, did I sit across from you at breakfast this morning?
[20:33] <ZykoticK9> CardinalFang, it would be news to me... ;)
[20:34] <kklimonda> ZykoticK9, It doesn't?
[20:35] <ZykoticK9> kklimonda, i'm lead to believe (and personal experience suggests) that "no it doesn't"
[20:35] <kklimonda> ZykoticK9, it was build with vdpau in karmic afair
[20:35] <kklimonda> it certainly links against libvdpa in lucid
[20:43] <ZykoticK9> kklimonda, you're right!  removed PPA/mplayer - updated apt, reinstalled mplayer -- still working with vdpau!  no PPA required.  Thanks
[21:05] <alkisg> How can I see if the daily-live 20100202 has xserver-xorg-core 2:1.7.3.902-1ubuntu9   or -10? I think that's what's causing my crashes...
[21:08] <BUGabundo> you can look at build logs
[21:08] <alkisg> Could you direct me to the build logs?
[21:09] <alkisg> Ah, sorry, found it at the manifest
[21:09] <alkisg> It has -ubuntu9, so I bet it'll work fine for me. Downloading..
[21:13] <billybigrigger> BUGabundo, ola
[21:13] <ubuntar> Hi! The colors in xterm before was white text on black bg and now it is opposite.Using 10.04 alpha.Where i can fix that?
[21:14] <BUGabundo> hey billybigrigger. wb missing person in milk package
[21:14] <billybigrigger> haha
[21:14] <billybigrigger> no doubt eh
[21:14] <ZykoticK9> ubuntar, from cli you could use "xterm -bg black -fg white" not sure where/how to change config
[21:15] <billybigrigger> haven't had time to sit down at a computer for a few months now, can honestly say i haven't contributed a damn thing to lucid :(
[21:15] <ubuntar> i am first thing when installing system removing any mono packages ]
[21:18] <ubuntar>  ZykoticK9 thanks it is working for starting xterm my self... but i am using C::B and xterm started by it's process.. (
[21:25] <alkisg> Can I downgrade xserver-xorg-core on the live CD ***on the fly*** (i.e. restart xorg without problems)? I do have the appropriate .deb packages on my disk...
[21:26] <yofel> hey billybigrigger
[21:31] <as1965> alkisg: should be OK - as long as you do not reboot. I've done updates on the live CD but never downgrades though.
[21:32] <alkisg> as1965: thank you, I'll try it right now.
[21:36] <as1965> as1965: no guarantee! I would switch to a text VT and stop GDM/X - then run the apt-get/downgrade, on completion, restart GDM ...
[21:36] <as1965> s/as1965/alkisg/
[21:37] <as1965> alkisg: Your main problem could turn out to be package conflicts - depending on what you're doing ...
[21:37] <alkisg> as1965: my problems is this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/517276
[21:39] <alkisg> Uh, yesterday's daily-live just completed downloading, so maybe I'll write that on the usb stick instead, and pin the xorg package versions. Thanks again!
[21:39] <DrHalan> is somebody about to fix nouveau?
[21:44] <zniavre_> there is a bug report about gdm/gnome session don't work ?i can 't really find it
[22:02] <billybigrigger> yofel, howdy
[22:31] <ZykoticK9> metricpiano, by default there is no xorg.conf (/etc/X11/xorg.conf), if you are using nvidia you can generate one with "sudo nvidia-xconfig" if you are using another GFX card then you might have to stop GDM and from a console run "X -configure", probably "sudo X -configure" (i'm not familiar with this method as I use nvidia)
[22:32] <metricpiano> hello, I'm running Lucid and the #ubuntu people kicked me over here :D I'm trying to get ATI drivers, or update drivers, or check if I have the best thing already.  Among other things I was trying to follow this: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-168263.html on someones suggestion, but I do not have an xorg.conf file anywhere on my system (apparently).  So I'm back to confused... Incidentially I'm on Lucid because I couldn
[22:36] <metricpiano> ATI Catylist control center says the following:   There was a problem initializing Catalyst Control Center Linux edition.  It could be caused by the following.  No ATI graphics driver is installed, or the ATI driver is not functioning properly. Please install the ATI driver appropriate for you ATI hardware, or configure using aticonfig. En!
[22:37] <metricpiano> zykoticK9:  any idea how I determine what X is in that configuration?
[22:38] <ZykoticK9> metricpiano, sorry man, as soon as you mentioned ATI I'm no help to you...  Hopefully someone else here uses ATI and can help you.
[22:40] <metricpiano> zykoticK9: sure, np, thanks anyway.  I've tried to follow a bunch of websites and guides and they all seem to not apply at some point.
[22:40] <RAOF> metricpiano: I don't think there are any ATI drivers that work on Lucid at the moment.
[22:40] <RAOF> Sorry; any fglrx drivers that work on Lucid; the open source drivers should work.
[22:40] <bjsnider> RAOF, so it's a normal state of affairs then...
[22:41] <billybigrigger> any nvidia users here?
[22:42] <ZykoticK9> billybigrigger, yes, why?
[22:42] <billybigrigger> do you use vdpau?
[22:43] <ZykoticK9> billybigrigger, yes
[22:43] <metricpiano> if I got back to Karmic are there ATI drivers that will work, or how would I find out (before reverting)?
[22:43] <billybigrigger> yeah i didn't read too far into the nouveau open-source nvidia driver‏ and decided to help test it
[22:43] <billybigrigger> but now i've lost vdpau
[22:44] <billybigrigger> i guess having no 3d acceleration might have something to do with that
[22:44] <RAOF> And no vdpau imlementation in gallium yet, too.
[22:44] <ZykoticK9> billybigrigger, i'm NOT using nouveau, no idea if it support vdpau (i doubt it)
[22:44] <billybigrigger> how do i go back to the 195 driver? simaple aptitude install
[22:44] <bjsnider> you need the blob for vdpau
[22:44] <RAOF> billybigrigger: Just remove linux-backports-modules-2.6.32-12-generic, and reset your xorg.conf
[22:45] <billybigrigger> fair enough
[22:45] <billybigrigger> thanks
[22:45] <billybigrigger> err....
[22:45] <billybigrigger> i remember 195 being removed when i installed xserver-xorg-video-nouveau
[22:46] <RAOF> Oh, yeah.  It probably still conflicts with the nvidia-glx package.
[22:46] <RAOF> You'll want to reinstall nvidia-current, then, too :)
[23:00] <bjorkintosh> my monitor seems to go catatonic after a while, even though the rest of the machine remains responsive.
[23:01] <bjorkintosh> the keyboard and mouse are also unresponsive.
[23:01] <bjorkintosh> i can still ssh in and look around, but it doesn't seem to wake it up. i'm running xubuntu. any ideas?
[23:02] <crimsun> bjorkintosh: read your kernel ring buffer log
[23:02] <crimsun> (i.e., dmesg)
[23:05] <cwillu> who's poking me?
[23:06] <cwillu> hmm, must have been me poking me
[23:11] <BUGabundo> poki poku cwillu
[23:12]  * cwillu cries
[23:12] <maco> BUGabundo: can you actually say that out loud without tongue-tying?
[23:12] <cwillu> maco, my name is unpronounceable with out tongue-tying
[23:12] <BUGabundo> maco: seems I can
[23:12] <maco> cwillu: fair point
[23:12] <BUGabundo> want me to video tape it for you ? :D
[23:12] <maco> but even poki poku was hard for me
[23:13] <maco> i mean, say it a few times and itll work, but not on the first try
[23:13] <BUGabundo> cwillu is hard to say
[23:13] <metricpiano> BUGabundo: just pronounce it "bill"... it's a lot easier :D
[23:13] <cwillu> it actually requires you to tie a knot in your tongue
[23:13] <cwillu> only way to get the "cwi" sound
[23:13] <BUGabundo> or carrie
[23:13] <BUGabundo> much nicer
[23:14] <maco> is it like swi or kwi?
[23:14] <BUGabundo> not the BUGabundo is easier :D
[23:14] <cwillu> you could at least spell it right :p
[23:14] <maco> or maybe shwi?
[23:14] <BUGabundo> sorri
[23:14] <BUGabundo> I always type it wrong :(/
[23:14] <cwillu> maco, it's like 'cwi', those terms are all pronounceable without the knot
[23:14] <cwillu> BUGabundo, so check my whois :p
[23:14] <maco> cwillu: but c can be k or s
[23:14] <BUGabundo> carie :)
[23:15] <cwillu> maco, or <unpronounceable in the english language>
[23:15] <maco> cwillu: oh dear
[23:15] <maco> cwillu: when i typed shwi i was actually kind of thinking of the ll sound in welsh
[23:15] <maco> mvo: hi!
[23:18] <BUGabundo> not that Mackenzie is easier either
[23:18] <BUGabundo> :o
[23:18] <maco> my name is perfectly easy to say
[23:18] <maco> well
[23:18] <maco> if you're used to western european languages
[23:18] <maco> the "zi" syllable doesn't exist in japanese, so that could be tricky...
[23:19] <maco> but ive yet to meet a japanese person who couldnt say it if i cheated at how i wrote it :P
[23:19] <rww> my handle is pronounced "rawr" :3
[23:20] <maco> ZUi can be a fake ZI, my japanese teacher said. because the alternative is JI which... no
[23:20] <rww> (And slightly more on-topic, I installed Lucid yesterday! It is pretty excellent :)
[23:21] <maco> like, they dont have TSA to make PITSA (=pizza) but they have TSU and ya so... TSUya  the U and y get sort of ignored and its said like tsa
[23:21] <BUGabundo> rww: AHAHAHAHAHAH
[23:21] <maco> (hmm should say the U and y cancel each other out)
[23:25] <cwillu> are you guys still talking about my unpronouceability?