[00:13] <nigel_nb> hggdh, play a movie in totem ;)
[00:13] <nigel_nb> or video or music...
[00:26] <deuxpi> hggdh: gnome-screensaver-command --inhibit
[00:44] <nigel_nb> bdmurray, ping
[00:45] <hggdh> deuxpi: and this will survive only for the session? and thank you, BTW
[00:46] <hggdh> oh, OK, command blocks. So until it is ended/cancelled
[00:47] <bdmurray> nigel_nb: yes
[00:47] <nigel_nb> bdmurray, I talked to hggdh earlier... about getting a few sessions on how to triage, now that bug squad has moved to a closed team
[00:49] <bdmurray> okay
[00:49] <nigel_nb> bdmurray, can you teach/ask someone to teach and schedule them ?
[00:51] <bdmurray> nigel_nb: is there a particular time / date that many students will be available?
[00:51] <nigel_nb> bdmurray, I was hoping we have it at 3 times on 3 dates so that more people from across TZs can participate
[00:51] <nigel_nb> but otherwise, scheduling is up to the instructor
[00:52] <nigel_nb> we can advertise it heavily enough to get people to join us to learn...
[01:00] <bdmurray> I'd prefer to ensure there are a sufficient number of students to warrant a class before just scheduling 1 or 3
[01:01] <nigel_nb> bdmurray, you want me to check on mail list for interest?
[01:01] <bdmurray> nigel_nb: that'd be great!
[01:02] <nigel_nb> bdmurray, I'll do that then :)
[02:53] <ddecator> can somebody mark bug 515725 as "Low"? (it's a cosmetic issue with an easy workaround)
[02:53] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 515725 in firefox (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Firefox XSL Zoom (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/515725
[02:56] <ddecator> please and thank you
[03:14] <nigel_nb> bcurtiswx, ping
[03:14] <bcurtiswx> nigel_nb: pong
[03:14] <nigel_nb> bcurtiswx, Replying to the email ;) I know we have mentorship.  But just wanted to offer a lot of interested contributors a session :)
[03:16] <bcurtiswx> nigel_nb: not knocking down your idea.  I'm sure others will speak up if they feel differently, If you really wanted to do this you'd have to find a willing teacher and enough participants to make it worthwhile
[03:16] <hggdh> ddecator: done. I also marked it Triaged, since you linked the upstream bug. Thank you for your work there!
[03:16] <ddecator> hggdh, thanks, i appreciate it =)
[03:16] <nigel_nb> bcurtiswx, actually I asked bdmurray__, he wanted to know if there is an interest in participation
[03:16] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: hows things going with the reading?
[03:16] <nigel_nb> bcurtiswx, that was the point of the email :)
[03:17] <bcurtiswx> nigel_nb: yup i saw.  I guess my interpretation of the mentorship was for this purpose.  I've been wrong plenty of times before
[03:17] <nigel_nb> hehe :)
[03:23] <mrburns> alright i am a little confused by what "new" means cause i see some bugs that are kind of old but yet will marked as "new"
[03:24] <nigel_nb> mrburns, new = not triaged
[03:25] <nigel_nb> mrburns, unless a bug is reproducible, it wont move to confirmed
[03:27] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: yeah he's right.  New is the default state given to all bugs... it has to be seen by a triager before it will get changed
[03:29] <mrburns> so is that what most of you do look at the bug and see if you can reproduce it
[03:30] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: not exactly....
[03:31] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: the basic idea of triage is to look at a bug and see if the bug report has the basic requirements needed to be looked at by a dev.
[03:32] <bcurtiswx> 1) the steps to reproduce the problem
[03:33] <bcurtiswx> 2)if its a crash there's debugging information you should gather from the reporter
[03:33] <bcurtiswx> 3) ubuntu version
[03:34] <bcurtiswx> if the reporter is using Karmic and past you can have them type "apport-collect <bugnumber>" in their terminal and it will gather the necessary information for the bug from their computer
[03:34] <bcurtiswx> they may need to install a package, but it informs them after they type that command on what they need to do
[03:35] <mrburns> oh interesting i didn't know you could do that
[03:36] <bcurtiswx> but in the apport-collect case the steps to reproduce the problem aren't taken from their computer :P
[03:36] <bcurtiswx> so you'll still need that most of the time
[03:39] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: there are two places a bug is going to need to go, once it has all of the information that I have listed above.
[03:40] <bcurtiswx> if the package involved is developed upstream (this being, debian, openoffice, mozilla, [listed at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream]) it need to be forwarded upstream
[03:41] <bcurtiswx> if the package is specific to ubuntu it can be marked as triaged as it's already reported against the ubuntu package
[03:43] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: are you ready to tackle a bug together?
[03:43] <mrburns> so if a bug is in a package like debian, openoffice forwarding upstreams passes the bug onto developers that work on specific packages like debian, openoffice, etc
[03:43] <mrburns> yeah sure
[03:43] <kermiac> hi bcurtiswx I had a look at the links regarding membership in your reply to the mailing list. The list seems to have grown a lot since I first looked at it a cpl of months ago.
[03:44] <kermiac> I have now added my name to the wiki, is there anything else i need to do?
[03:44] <bcurtiswx> kermiac: do you mean mentorship?
[03:44] <kermiac> yeah, sorry :)
[03:44] <bcurtiswx> kermiac: the launcpad page, request membership
[03:44] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy/+bug/517651
[03:44] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 517651 in empathy (Ubuntu) "Could not connect after I changed all my accounts (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
[03:45] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: the first thing you want to look for in a bug is that it has the correct package assigned to it.  What do you think?
[03:45] <kermiac> ok, done. Thanks
[03:45] <bcurtiswx> kermiac: you are welcome
[03:46] <mrburns> is that empathy 2.28.1.1-0ubuntu1
[03:48] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: you want to read through the description to make sure they aren't talking about a different package than the one they reported against.. (reporters can get packages mixed up)
[03:49] <bcurtiswx> it's ok if this take a while to get used to.  If you question it at all, don't hesitate to bug someone in this room
[03:49] <bcurtiswx> or e-mail me if you aren't on IRC
[03:50] <nigel_nb> bcurtiswx, you just conducted a learning session right here :)
[03:50] <mrburns> oh so make sure that the bug is related to their description of the problem
[03:51] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: yup.  Next you want to make sure that the bug has all the information it needs to be handed off to developers.  Look through my stufff above and let me know if you believe it has all of the information
[03:52] <bcurtiswx> nigel_nb: yup, you wish for more of a session in a group format, instead of individualized like the mentorship offers
[03:52] <nigel_nb> bcurtiswx, exactly!
[03:53] <nigel_nb> less strain on mentors I'd say
[03:53] <ddecator> i like that idea. i have a mentor, but him and i operate at different times so it's difficult for him to help me out
[03:53] <nigel_nb> (I myself am being mentored)
[03:54] <hggdh> don't you say, nigel_nb :-)
[03:54] <nigel_nb> hggdh, hehe :)
[03:54] <hggdh> LOL
[03:55] <ddecator> btw, how is the mentorship supposed to work? do mentors walk people through bugs or are they more for just answering questions?
[03:55] <hggdh> bcurtiswx: the idea has merit -- it should be as simple as possible, mostly a Q&A-type
[03:55] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: i wasn't trying to shoot down the idea, i agree it has merit
[03:55] <hggdh> ddecator: it can work both ways. Usually we show you the ropes, and answer questions
[03:55] <mrburns> bcurtiswx: i would say yes 1) i think i could reproduce it with the given information 2) there seems to be debugging information like architecture, xsessionerrors, etc 3) ubuntu 9.10
[03:56] <hggdh> bcurtiswx: I know, I follow you
[03:56] <hggdh> ddecator: and correct your mistakes ;-)
[03:56] <hggdh> of course, 'your' does not mean you personally, but all the mentees
[03:57] <ddecator> hggdh, haha, fair enough. pedro is my mentor but he's on early in the morning (my time) and i'm always on at night so we haven't been able to talk on irc, so i wasn't sure what i was supposed to be doing...i can get up earlier to talk to him, but is talking to a mentor on irc really any more beneficial than asking this channel as a whole for advice?
[03:58] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: ok, agreed.  The next step is to give it an importance.  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance lists what each importance means.. which do you think applies?
[03:59] <hggdh> it is pretty much the same, all in all. Another thing the mentor is expected to do is follow your bug work -- can can be done quite easily, by looking at the email generated when you change a bug
[03:59] <ddecator> ah, simple enough...thanks hggdh =)
[03:59] <hggdh> ddecator: and, usually, we would rather answer the questions in this channel -- so that all other lurking may benefit
[04:00] <mrburns> bcurtiswx: i would say low
[04:00] <ddecator> good point...i'm following bcurtiswx right now to see if i learn anything, haha
[04:01] <bcurtiswx> ddecator: what do you think the importance should be?
[04:03] <ddecator> bcurtiswx, that's difficult...i'm leaning towards medium since it seems to be a "moderate impact on a core application" (since empathy is now a default app)
[04:04] <bcurtiswx> ddecator: " So I deleted all my accounts in empathy and reimported the accounts from pidgin.  And what should I say. Now I could connect to my accounts with empathy again."
[04:05] <ddecator> bcurtiswx, so does the workaround make it low? i'm not sure it's "easy" since you have to launch another app, adjust the settings there, then import them again...
[04:05] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: whats your reasoning for low?
[04:12] <mrburns> bcurtiswx: there is a work around (use pidgin), it doesn't not effect hardware components, not a new feature
[04:15] <bcurtiswx> mrburns, ddecator: a good rule of thumb is that if you are unsure about the status of a bug, it's safe to set it at medium.  In this case, since we're not 100% sure, and we're tied between medium and low.  We'll set it at medium.. so go ahead and do that mrburns
[04:16] <nigel_nb> um, bug squad can set priority?
[04:16] <ddecator> no we can't ;)
[04:16] <bcurtiswx> ddecator made a good point, it is a core ubuntu app so medium applies
[04:17] <mrburns> doh
[04:17] <bcurtiswx> ddecator, nigel_nb: it's been a while, i couldn't remember
[04:17] <ddecator> no problem bcurtiswx
[04:17] <bcurtiswx> ok, so we've decided it's medium
[04:17] <nigel_nb> :)
[04:17] <ddecator> once we're in bugcontrol we can
[04:17] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: the last step would be what?
[04:19] <mrburns> bcurtiswx: assign it to a developer
[04:20] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: we don't ever assign bugs as a triager.. but we have to make sure the bug gets in the right hands.. like I stated earlier.  if the package is maintained not in ubuntu it needs to get forwarded, otherwise you're done and you can mark it as triaged
[04:22] <mrburns> bcurtiswx: how do we tell if it is maintained in ubuntu
[04:22] <bcurtiswx> type apt-cache show empathy in terminal
[04:22] <bcurtiswx> read through the output and let me know
[04:23] <ddecator> see, now i learned a new command...
[04:23] <mrburns> bcurtiswx: Maintainer: Ubuntu Core Developers
[04:24] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: nope
[04:24] <mrburns> doh
[04:24] <bcurtiswx> every package provided in ubuntu has Maintainer: Ubuntu Core Developers
[04:24] <hggdh> yes... "Original-maintainer" is more important ;-)
[04:25] <mrburns> oh
[04:25] <hggdh> but, even then, this may not point to the real upstream
[04:25] <ddecator> such as if the "section" suggests something different?
[04:25] <bcurtiswx> hggdh: is there a better way to see which packaged need to be pushed upstream?
[04:26] <hggdh> you can look at the "Homepage" -- this is usually where upstream can be located
[04:27] <hggdh> in this case, as a general rule, all Gnome apps are upstreamed to Gnome
[04:27] <bcurtiswx> mrburns, ddecator: this is a hard task to learn at first.  Once you work with it for a while you'll understand it better.. once again ask in here if in doubt
[04:28] <hggdh> but sometimes it is really difficult to find where is the upstream
[04:28] <mrburns> so in this case it is gnome
[04:28] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: correct
[04:28] <ddecator> i'm kind of starting to figure it out...i've done mostly work with packages that i know are upstream or not
[04:29] <hggdh> in these cases, getting the source package may help: (1) there should be a file called ./debian/watch, where the source tarball can be picked; (2) look at the NEWS, README, and other files in the source
[04:30] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: now there are two ways you can get this pushed upstream.. if you are going through squashing a lot of bugs you can leave a stock reply [https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses] asking the user to take care of it..
[04:30] <bcurtiswx> or you can send it upstream yourself
[04:31] <ddecator> the latter teaches more =)
[04:31] <hggdh> yes. But there is more to upstreaming...
[04:31] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: "https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#A bug that should be handled upstream" in specific
[04:32] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: upstreaming is a lesson in itself and will save for another day
[04:32] <hggdh> if you are going to start upstreaming to a particular package -- subscribe to their mailing list; if they are in an IRC channel, get to it; find out *how* they operate, and try to give them what they like to have on their bugs
[04:33] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: for now, set the bug to incomplete and leave the reply "Thank you for taking the time to report this bug and helping to make Ubuntu better. The issue you are reporting is an upstream one and it would be nice if somebody having it could send the bug to the developers of the software by following the instructions at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/GNOME. If you have done so, please tell us the number of the upstream bug (or t
[04:33] <bcurtiswx> he link), so we can add a bugwatch that will inform us about its status. Thanks in advance."
[04:34] <ddecator> but upstreaming is a good lesson to learn because it is really appreciated
[04:34] <hggdh> it is not only upstreaming that is important, but doing it *right*. And _right_ is how upstream sees it, not necessarily like us see it
[04:34] <ddecator> also, did we ever check for a duplicate?
[04:35] <bcurtiswx> ddecator: not yet.. it's difficult finding dups.. was gonna save that for another day
[04:35] <ddecator> ok, just wanted to mention it
[04:36] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: the true "first" thing that you want to do is check for a duplicate.
[04:36] <mrburns> ok yeah i guess that would make sense
[04:39] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: for a "hw assignment" I think you should pick 3 bugs that you want.  Then work through the bugs like we did tonight.  Give me an e-mail with links to the three bugs and the different things that you would do to them.  Sound fair?
[04:39] <nigel_nb> hggdh, a little help
[04:39] <bcurtiswx> ddecator:  who is your mentor?
[04:39] <mrburns> yeah sounds good
[04:40] <ddecator> bcurtiswx, pedro
[04:41] <bcurtiswx> ddecator: do my hw assignment for pedro as well
[04:41] <bcurtiswx> nigel_nb: same for you and hggdh
[04:41] <nigel_nb> bcurtiswx, I already have plenty :)
[04:41] <ddecator> bcurtiswx, i've already started work on 4 bugs today and triaged one, but ok haha
[04:41] <bcurtiswx> nigel_nb: awesome :D
[04:42] <nigel_nb> bcurtiswx, I just branched out to small-term patching and packaging
[04:42] <nigel_nb> s/term/time
[04:42] <bcurtiswx> ddecator: then pick 3 bugs that you are less comfortable with
[04:42] <hggdh> nigel_nb: what can I do for you?
[04:42] <mrburns> bcurtiswx: how did you find that bug?  just search for "new" or pick something a random
[04:42] <ddecator> bcurtiswx, alright -_-
[04:43] <nigel_nb> hggdh, a rant....
[04:43] <nigel_nb> hggdh, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-openchrome/+bug/503674
[04:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 503674 in xserver-xorg-video-openchrome (Ubuntu) "[K8M800]Screen resolution used to be ok in Ubuntu 6, not in 8.04 and later (affects: 1)" [Low,Incomplete]
[04:43] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: i focus on empathy bugs http://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~bcurtiswx
[04:43] <nigel_nb> hggdh, last comment.. suggestions on what I should reply
[04:43] <hggdh> nigel_nb: looking
[04:44] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: feel free to tackle any bugs that are "new" in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/empathy
[04:45] <ddecator> just to clarify...is confirming a bug optional for triaging?
[04:45] <bcurtiswx> ddecator: yes optional
[04:45] <ddecator> bcurtiswx, well that makes things easier for me o_O
[04:45] <ddecator> i was searching for bugs i could confirm haha
[04:46] <hggdh> nigel_nb: this bug is a mess
[04:46] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: feel free to look at bugs i've triaged for reference
[04:47] <ddecator> mrburns, just as an aside, i would avoid firefox bugs at first, mozilla has very specific ways they like bugs to be handled
[04:48] <mrburns> bcurtiswx: ok sounds good
[04:48] <hggdh> nigel_nb: I think the OP has some valid points
[04:49] <nigel_nb> hggdh, the priority to low is wrong? (I donno x team's rules)
[04:50] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: one major thing I forgot.. it's mandatory that all bugs you triage you subscribe to.. otherwise you won't get e-mails when someone replies to a bug
[04:50] <nigel_nb> hggdh, while he does have some right points, the comments were for setting priority to low
[04:50] <hggdh> nigel_nb: it sounds correct -- one user affected (even if the OP does not agree)
[04:52] <hggdh> but the other points are correct. The OP kept on repeating ignorance, and pretty much all suggestions were badly worded in terms of what to do (expecting deep knowledge)
[04:52] <hggdh> real bad work by the commenters
[04:53] <nigel_nb> I was about to start replying when the X team took over, so after that I really didn't keep track much
[04:53] <nigel_nb> I dont think we can do much other than ask the X team..can we?
[04:54] <bcurtiswx> gnite all
[04:55] <hggdh> well, yes, we can ping Bryce, at least
[04:55] <nigel_nb> ah, yes
[04:59] <kermiac> can someone pls confirm that bug 517611 should be converted to a question
[04:59] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 517611 in sun-java6 (Ubuntu) "Newbie: Error while downloading/installing Java 6 doc using Synaptic Package Manager (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517611
[05:00] <mrburns> bcurtiswx: thanks for your help
[05:00] <bcurtiswx> mrburns: yw, we'll continue another day, nite
[05:37] <mr-russ> My ubuntu lucid vm guest is rolling forward 500+ years.  How might I debug what's causing this/
[05:38] <jmarsden> mr-russ: If you are running ubuntu as the host OS also, ask in #ubuntu-virt.  #ubuntu-bugs is not a support channel.
[05:39] <mr-russ> Okay, I just suspected a clock change of 500 years was a bug to find a root cause for.
[05:40] <jmarsden> mr-russ: Sure, feel free to submit it against the virtualization software you are using, especially if it is a replicable bug on multiple physical machines.
[05:41] <jmarsden> mr-russ: As a data point, I'm running a Ubuntu Lucid guest here (under Virtualbox-ose) and not seeing that kind of behaviour.
[05:41] <mr-russ> I would like to try and work out how to find the cause.  Ubuntu bugs don't just get fixed without knowing what's going on.
[05:41] <kermiac> can someone confirm that i should conver bug 517611 to a question as they are asking for terminal commands & a tutorial
[05:41] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 517611 in sun-java6 (Ubuntu) "Newbie: Error while downloading/installing Java 6 doc using Synaptic Package Manager (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517611
[05:42] <jmarsden> mr-russ: Right.  Ask in a support channel for help with the issue.  Such as #ubuntu-virt if the host OS is Ubuntu.  You've not even said what the virtualization software you are using is, yet, BTW.  There are known timing/clock issues with vmware and some kernels with high tick frequencies, or there used to be...
[05:42] <mr-russ> jmarsden: jaunty host 64bit amd, 64amd lucid guest is what I'm running.  I'll just start playing around with different kernels and the like.
[05:43] <jmarsden> Then #ubuntu-virt is probably a decent place to ask for help.
[05:44] <ddecator> kermiac, sounds like a questions to me, but i haven't had experience with that yet
[05:45] <kermiac> thanks ddecator :)
[05:46] <ddecator> kermiac, no problem =)
[07:18] <kermiac> bug 517925 looks like a dupe of bug 160812. I can verify the bug in Karmic, but not in Lucid
[07:18] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 517925 in yelp (Ubuntu) "The help files won't print (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517925
[07:18] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 160812 in yelp (Ubuntu) "Yelp does not print images" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/160812
[07:18] <kermiac> should i dupe 517925 & mark as fix released
[07:18] <kermiac> seems like it might be SRU worthy
[07:26] <kermiac> does anyone know if yelp would be easily backported or if it would require SRU?
[09:59] <Damascene> Hello, I've problem with function keys on Asus Eee 1005HA with Lucid. what package should I report against?
[10:03] <nigel_nb> Damascene, wats the problem?
[10:04] <Damascene> most of them aren't working
[10:06] <Damascene> nigel_nb,
[10:06] <nigel_nb> Damascene, which ones worl?
[10:06] <nigel_nb> work?
[10:07] <Damascene> brightness darkness only
[10:07] <nigel_nb> oh, not the f1 to ff12 keys?
[10:08] <Damascene> yes
[10:08] <Damascene> they are the f1 to f
[10:08] <Damascene> f12
[10:09] <nigel_nb> this is the fn + some icons on key board keys right?
[10:09] <nigel_nb> if you press ctrl f4 your app exits and all that stuff happens?
[10:09] <Damascene> yes most of those icons are the f* keys
[10:09] <Damascene> ctrl f4 closes the apps, yes.
[10:12] <Damascene> so?
[10:13] <nigel_nb> eee has had issues, I'm reading through them... gimme 5 mins?
[10:13] <Damascene> ok thank you
[10:14] <Damascene> to my surprise most of those keys are working on Karmic
[10:18] <nigel_nb> Damascene, ah well, apparently initially none of the keys worked
[10:18] <nigel_nb> now it has improved
[10:18] <nigel_nb> you can file a bug against udev package
[10:20] <nigel_nb> type "ubuntu-bug udev" without quotes into a terminal
[10:21] <Damascene> ok
[11:09] <nigel_nb> qense, pign
[11:10] <nigel_nb> ugh! spell badly with pings too!
[11:10] <qense> nigel_nb: pong
[11:10] <qense> :)
[11:10] <qense> What's the matter?
[11:10] <nigel_nb> qense, have caught up with the mailing list so far?
[11:10] <qense> nigel_nb: I suppose so.
[11:11] <nigel_nb> qense, I was hoping for a couple of sessions on "how to triage" for new contributors
[11:11] <nigel_nb> so far, the response is good to start one.
[11:11] <qense> nigel_nb: Ah, that thread.
[11:11] <qense> It is a good idea, maybe something we could do monthly?
[11:12] <nigel_nb> Probably.  something that needs more discussion.
[11:13] <nigel_nb> qense, Right now, I'm looking for someone to actually lead sessions
[11:13] <nigel_nb> qense, most of the mails I get concerns about TZ difference.
[11:14] <qense> nigel_nb: I wouldn't mind helping out with that, but someone like bdmurray or pedro_ have got more experience with such sessions.
[11:14] <nigel_nb> qense, yes.  But you can't have the same people do sessions always
[11:15] <qense> valid point :)
[11:15] <nigel_nb> I'm looking to more like a group of people who can help with teaching in turns
[11:16] <nigel_nb> Main thing - from different TZ, so more people can actually participate in the class
[11:17] <qense> nigel_nb: That is true. Maybe two sessions a month, in two different timezones, would be better.
[11:17] <nigel_nb> actually we need 3
[11:18] <nigel_nb> but yes, on 3 different days is better
[11:18] <qense> I'd say, create a wiki page, put some details on it and a list where people willing to lead a session can add their names to.
[11:18] <nigel_nb> if we can get individual teams (like audio, x) coming up with some sessions on how to deal with their bugs, we could have a better time
[11:18] <nigel_nb> Good idea, I'll do that
[11:19] <nigel_nb> I'll talk to bdmurray_ and pedro_ again
[11:20] <qense> ok!
[11:20] <nigel_nb> qense, I've already set things in motion for a monthly Q and A (oriented to reporters)
[11:20] <nigel_nb> so, now another one oriented to bug squad
[11:21] <qense> nigel_nb: Good! We need people who take initiative!
[11:21] <nigel_nb> :)
[11:25] <Damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/udev/+bug/518007
[11:25] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 518007 in udev (Ubuntu) "Asus Eee Function Keys are not working with Lucid 10.04 (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
[11:26] <Damascene> is there something I can do to improve the bug report?
[11:45] <qense> Can anyone confirm bug 489977? I can't.
[11:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 489977 in ubuntu (and 2 other projects) "Inaccessible directory has same emblem as read-only directory (affects: 2)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489977
[11:46] <nigel_nb> qense, how do I confirm change write and then read permissions?
[11:47] <qense> nigel_nb: The list that's shown in the bug description is 'generated' with the command ls -l.
[11:54] <kermiac> anyone else getting timeouts on bugs.launchpad.net & edge too?
[11:56] <nigel_nb> qense, I think KDE also gets papercuts
[11:56] <nigel_nb> re: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/devweek1001/KDEPaperCuts
[11:56] <qense> nigel_nb: ah, thanks
[11:57] <nigel_nb> np :)
[11:57] <nigel_nb> #kubuntu-devel seems a better place to ask
[11:57] <qense> probably, indeed
[11:59] <Damascene> kermiac, me too.
[11:59] <kermiac> ah, thanks Damascene - glad it's not just me :)
[12:00] <kermiac> it seems like it's only when I'm doing a search. clicking on a direct link to a bug is fine
[12:00] <kermiac> it was fine earlier tonight
[13:19] <vish> qense: hi.. Bug #488041 , you didnt assign to ubiquity , any reason for not assigning after mentioning?
[13:19] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 488041 in ubuntu (and 1 other project) "multilanguage keyboard layout (affects: 2)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/488041
[13:19] <qense> vish: Ah, thank you. I must have forgotten about that.
[13:20] <qense> :P
[13:20] <qense> fixed now
[13:20] <vish> qense: i thought so :) but just wanted to make sure..
[13:21] <qense> thanks
[13:21] <nigel_nb> qense, that needs to be brainstormed?
[13:21] <qense> nigel_nb: What needs to be brainstormed?
[13:21] <nigel_nb> the ubiquity bug
[13:22] <nigel_nb> pretty big change for wishlist..isn't it?
[13:22] <qense> Maybe, but it does hinder users, so I reckoned it would be worth the bug report.
[13:25] <nigel_nb> um, just wanted to know the process
[13:25] <nigel_nb> qense, speaking of which, there needs to be a process for Questions => bugs
[13:25] <nigel_nb> when we convert them, it shows up as a bug the converter reported
[13:25] <qense> nigel_nb: Isn't there already such a thing?
[13:26] <nigel_nb> so when I confirm it, it looks as though I reported and confirmed a bug
[13:26] <qense> nigel_nb: That doesn't matter. If you name the Question in the bug description it's ok.
[13:26] <qense> We're not that rigid. ;)
[13:26] <nigel_nb> ah :)
[13:26] <nigel_nb> qense, btw, I loved your membership meeting
[13:27] <nigel_nb> lol, +1 before you even had to introduce yourself
[13:27] <qense> nigel_nb: Yeah, that was quite something. ;) It was fun.
[13:27] <nigel_nb> hehe
[13:27] <nigel_nb> now I know why they tell people to wait before applying
[13:28] <qense> Yeah, of the ten people who had applied only three got accepted.
[13:28] <qense> That's something I wanted to prevent to happen to me, so I waited.
[13:29] <nigel_nb> I orignally wanted to wait a year, you've inspired me to push longer
[13:30] <nigel_nb> qense, btw, do u sign up for new IDS on bug upstream trackers after becoming a member?
[13:30] <qense> nigel_nb: I'm inspirational!
[13:30] <qense> nigel_nb: You mean changing your mail address?
[13:31] <nigel_nb> qense, yes you are
[13:31] <nigel_nb> qense, yeah
[13:31] <qense> I'd reckon they just change their mail address.
[13:31] <nigel_nb> ah
[13:32] <qense> Which is encouraged, btw. That way upstream knows Ubuntu is contributing and they know you're a Member and thus (more) thrustworthy.
[13:34] <nigel_nb> hm :)
[16:22] <bhuvi> when i disble bluetooth or wifi by pressing Fn+F5 in my lenovo notebook while using vista ,after rebooting into ubuntu i cannot enable them is there any way to enable it back?
[16:23] <qense> bhuvi: That would be worth a bug report. However, we aren't a support channel, so for an immediate solution I would advise you to go to #ubuntu or #ubuntu-{CountryCode}. We can help you with reporting a bug, though.
[18:21] <WeatherGod> I am currently dealing with a bug report, and it seems like the issue might be related to gvfs
[18:21] <WeatherGod> any tips on how to collect more information on it?
[18:23] <qense> WeatherGod: Did you have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Debugging ?
[18:23] <WeatherGod> not lately...
[18:23]  * WeatherGod takes a look
[18:23] <qense> excutes
[18:23] <qense> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures
[18:23] <qense> that's the right url
[18:26] <WeatherGod> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevices seems out of date...
[18:26] <WeatherGod> it still talks about hal
[18:28] <WeatherGod> and DebuggingProcedures seems to have a dead link to DebuggingGNOMESystemTools
[18:30] <qense> yes, it could indeed use some updates
[18:33] <rmunn> I haven't been following kernel/driver development recently... what's hal been replaced with?
[18:33] <qense> DeviceKit
[18:33] <qense> and Udev
[18:34] <qense> Fully correct would be: devicekit-disks, devicekit-power and udev.
[18:34] <WeatherGod> rmunn, take a look at the Halsectomy page
[18:34] <qense> although the first two were renamed to udisk and upower iirc
[18:34] <WeatherGod> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Halsectomy
[18:34] <WeatherGod> oh, have they been renamed?
[18:35] <rmunn> WeatherGod, Thanks, reading now
[18:35] <WeatherGod> np
[18:38] <WeatherGod> can anyone tell me what is it that gvfs does that automount can't do?
[18:39] <qense> WeatherGod: like the name says: handling virtual filesystems
[18:39] <qense> and userspace stuff like network:/// and trash:///
[18:40] <rmunn> Anyone else having trouble reaching Launchpad right now? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ is timing out for me, and I don't think it's my network connection.
[18:40] <WeatherGod> nope, working fine for me
[18:41] <WeatherGod> qense, so it isn't responsible for automounting USB keys and CDs?
[18:41] <rmunn> I'll try disabling redirection to the edge server as the timeout page suggests, it's probably just the edge server that's timing out then.
[18:41] <qense> no, that's devicekit-disks
[18:41] <qense> iirc
[18:41] <qense> yes, probably
[18:42] <WeatherGod> so, udev loads the drivers... and devicekit-disks is the userland stuff?
[18:43] <qense> yes, that's how it works
[18:43] <WeatherGod> ok, and gvfs sets up url protocols then?
[18:44] <qense> I think gvfs can mount as well, but I think it only does so on request.
[18:46] <jpds> rmunn: Seems to be only the bugs.lp.net page that's affected.
[18:46] <WeatherGod> I would guess it would be like autofs in the sense that when someone makes a request it would figure out what needs to be mounted, maybe
[18:46] <rmunn> I still can't get through to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ even when I SOCKS-proxy my request through to a host on a different network... I'll report my bug later.
[18:46] <rmunn> jpds, Ah, so it's not just me then.
[18:46] <jpds> rmunn: I can access bug reports though just fine.
[18:46] <WeatherGod> I can't imagine that it would actually do any system mountings
[18:47] <rmunn> jpds, Yeah, me too -- when I tried https://bugs.launchpad.net/evince/+bugs I got right through. Okay, I can work with this.
[18:48] <qense> WeatherGod: I'm not that familiar with disks and mounting and stuff, so I can't give you a decisive answer.
[18:49] <rmunn> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ times out with error ID OOPS-1498O1885 by the way, if any LP admins are watching this channel.
[18:49] <ubot4> https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1498O1885
[18:50] <rmunn> No, wait, it's a different error ID each time... not useful to report here. Sorry.
[18:50] <jpds> rmunn: OOPS IDs are unique and incremented, your OOPS matches the timeout error mine has.
[18:52] <rmunn> jpds, If you want the other OOPS IDs I got I can give them to you, but they're almost certainly the exact same thing each time.
[18:52] <jpds> Yeah, probably are.
[18:55] <WeatherGod> qense, that's ok... it is better to not confuse me with incorrect information
[18:55] <qense> :)
[18:56] <WeatherGod> I did manage to find another bug report in the gvfs package that reported a similar symptom
[21:20] <arand> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/510571 << How would I go about taking this upstream?
[21:20] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 510571 in linux (Ubuntu) "Latest -11 kernel won't boot, -10 works, Lucid (affects: 7)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[21:22] <jpds> arand: File a bug on bugzilla.kernel.org ?
[21:24] <arand> jpds: Yes, but is there a good list of things to include on the report, or could I simply link it to this one for all info?
[21:24] <jpds> arand: A summary of the bug and a link would be good.
[21:26] <mrand> arand: I wouldn't jump that far quite yet... since kernel is custom built by ubuntu, something like that that is already receiving attention is likely to be handled by the kernel team itself.
[21:27] <arand> mrand: I did try the upstream kernel which failed as well...
[21:27] <mrand> arand: super!  In that case, yes, carry on!
[21:28] <charlie-tca> About that bug, we are using the -12 kernel now
[21:29] <arand> Yea, And I I fail on booting the liveCD as well, unless removing acpi from the virtualbox config, all kernels past 10 seems to be affected.
[21:30] <charlie-tca> I can install in vbox using the alternate image, not the liveCD
[21:30] <charlie-tca> Maybe that is the desktop cd failing?
[21:30] <charlie-tca> I am also running lucid as a work machine, on hardware, using the -12
[21:39] <ddecator> can someone please set bug 516154 as "low"? (low because it is an uncommon configuration with an easy work around) and triaged if everything looks good to you (i sent it upstream and updated the title and description)
[21:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 516154 in firefox (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Firefox becomes inoperable when cookies set to "ask me every time" (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/516154
[21:40] <BUGabundo> qense: eheh
[21:41] <qense> BUGabundo: No Empathy for you?
[21:41] <BUGabundo> nope
[21:41] <qense> aww
[21:41] <BUGabundo> pidgin 4 life
[21:41] <qense> aargh!
[21:41] <qense> Your problem does look nasty, I always hate small screens. How's the bug doing?
[21:41] <BUGabundo> let me know when empathy gets 1/4 of pidgin features
[21:41] <BUGabundo> nothing
[21:42] <BUGabundo> no X devs working on Weekends
[21:42] <BUGabundo> bunch of us in +1 with bad X
[21:42] <mrand> ddecator: done.
[21:42] <ddecator> thanks mrand
[21:42] <qense> BUGabundo: plus the Portland sprint, I read many tired devs at Twitter/Identi.ca.
[21:43] <mrand> ddecator: good job on that one.  I went ahead and marked it as medium.  I'm not sure how uncommon it is... and when viewed from a certain way, could be viewed as semi-security related (i.e. if you want or need to run without cookies).
[21:44] <ddecator> mrand, very true, i was kind of caught between the two so i probably should have gone with medium to be safe. i appreciate the help
[21:45]  * hggdh meanwhile, listens to Starship Trooper & Nous Sommes du Soleil, from the fantastic, and still loved, Yes
[21:45] <mrand> ddecator: reasonable people could easily decide either way, I think.  keep on trucking!
[21:46] <qense> hggdh: Spam bots have left MSN for IRC! Do you want to get a free iPhone as well?
[21:46] <hggdh> wow! free iPhone?? Wow, wow. May I humbly ask what one does with an iPhone? ;-)
[21:47] <hggdh> qense: are we getting to be +r also?
[21:48] <qense> hggdh: I wouldn't know. What does +r do with your IRC channel?
[21:48] <hggdh> requires you to be registered
[21:48] <qense> Shouldn't the spamattacks be stopped now FreeNode has upgraded its server?
[21:49] <hggdh> not really, and not necessarily. Depends on the type of attack. A channel that allows anyone in is more vulnerable. And a smart bot will post single messages, instead of bulk delivery
[21:51] <qense> hggdh: I hope the bullies have had enough from teasing FreeNode now then.
[21:51] <hggdh> although yesterday I was being queried by one of the freenode boots (guess I behaved like a bot)
[21:52] <qense> you? how could they possibly think you are a bot?
[21:52] <arand> mrand: It should be a simple matter of testing on the latest kernel here right?: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
[21:53] <hggdh> qense: I wish I knew. But I kept being hit by CTCP queries until I /quit and returned
[21:53] <hggdh> but I *have* been accused of being a bot on internet chess
[21:53] <qense> maybe you should CTCP back next time.
[21:54] <mrand> arand: I believe so.   I'll bet there is a PPA somewhere as well if you'd prefer that.
[21:54] <mrand> daughter is dragging me away... bbl
[21:54] <qense> hggdh: When was it? The year is important for it being either a compliment or an insult.
[22:01] <hggdh> qense: some two years ago
[22:01] <qense> in that case it was already a compliment. You must be good!
[22:01] <hggdh> heh. No I am not, not nowadays. I was good when I was younger, then I completely stopped
[22:03] <hggdh> qense: BTW I am still thinking on your proposal re. upstreaming
[22:03] <qense> hggdh: Do you think it makes any sense?
[22:03] <arand> How would I tell which mainline version the -10 and -11 kernels for Lucid are based on?
[22:05] <hggdh> qense: I think there is something there -- which is to say, makes sense. I am not sure if this is the best approach. I have been flip-flopping on it, and still have to understand why I like the idea, and why I do not, both at the same time
[22:06] <qense> The greatest advantage of it is that other people can search for bugs that are ready to be forwarded upstream. It all fits very nicely into my idea of AdoptionTeams.
[22:06] <BUGabundo> FYI plymouth is broken in Lucid. thanks
[22:07] <hggdh> I agree there. But there are some packages where you don't really open an upstream bug (e.g., coreutils, where you *usually* send an email)
[22:07] <hggdh> BUGabundo: yes. And you lose your VTs, among other things
[22:07] <qense> BUGabundo: I think there was a bug for that already, I forgot what number.
[22:08] <qense> hggdh: That's indeed the problem: not all upstreams have the same 'interface'.
[22:08] <BUGabundo> qense: bug 518058 my very own
[22:08] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 518058 in plymouth (Ubuntu) "[lucid] system freezes after GDM with nvidia and 2.6.32-12 (affects: 1)" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/518058
[22:08] <qense> freezes?
[22:08] <qense> My GDM just freezes when I press Enter
[22:09] <hggdh> indeed, and this is something I have been trying to stress: for one to successfully upstream bugs, one must understand how upstream works
[22:09] <BUGabundo> qense: that too
[22:09] <qense> BUGabundo: clicking works here, though
[22:09] <BUGabundo> or click
[22:09] <BUGabundo> or space
[22:09] <qense> hggdh: The thing is that by making people open empty upstream bug tasks, other people that are aware of how that specific upstream works can do the forwarding.
[22:09] <qense> I think there even was/is a specific field for the upstream bug e-mail address.
[22:10] <qense> Although I'm not sure if the maintainer of coreutils would like to be spammed with users having a party with the bug statuses.
[22:10] <hggdh> yes for both points. But I am not sure how the email interface works
[22:10] <qense> neither am I
[22:10] <hggdh> upstream coreutils is amazingly helpful, but better limit the spam, yes
[22:11] <hggdh> sigh. I should have expected 3 Gulden Draaks to sort of make me dizzy
[22:13] <qense> hggdh: Didn't you go to FOSDEM?
[22:13] <hggdh> qense: no, busy on a contract...
[22:14] <qense> Ah, I thought you might because of the beer you mentioned.
[22:14] <qense> Golden Dragon, not an animal you'd expect in Flanders.
[22:14] <hggdh> :-). Amazingly good flemish beer, is it not?
[22:15] <qense> I couldn't tell, I'm a teetotal. :D
[22:15] <hggdh> heh
[22:15] <hggdh> well, one has to agree that at the bare least Flanders have good beers
[22:16] <hggdh> (better, in general, than the ones I got in the Netherlands)
[22:16] <qense> I have been told they have indeed.
[22:17] <qense> hggdh: We're good at selling stuff, not as good in making fine food. Although they ought to be at least better than the American rip-off of Budweiser.
[22:17] <qense> which is now Belgian as well, btw
[22:17] <hggdh> LOL. Yes (or Brazilian?)
[22:17] <qense> No, InBev
[22:18] <hggdh> ambev, inbev, all the same except for one letter
[22:18] <qense> Americans were very angry that this symbol of the US(Budweiser is a place in Czech, they still make Budweiser there) was bought by a European company.
[22:19] <hggdh> yes, I know. I live in the US, after all. And they just don't understand the difference between an US budweiser and a Czeck one
[22:19] <qense> that's a bug! Report it. (So, we're back On Topic!)
[22:20] <hggdh> but, then, the original name of the budweiser makers is/was anheuser-bush (I *think*)
[22:20]  * hggdh goes on reporting such bug
[22:21] <qense> yes, and that whole company was bought by the Belgian company
[22:21] <qense> Bud Light failed terribly in Europe, btw
[22:21] <qense> I think it actually never reached most supermarket shelves
[22:22] <hggdh> not surprised. OTOH, there's Sam Adams, a *very* good American beer. Same level as most of the best EU beers
[22:23] <chrisccoulson> qense - will your transmission patch be available tonight?
[22:23] <hggdh> oh, work. Boring work...
[22:23] <hggdh> :-)
[22:23] <qense> chrisccoulson: I'm trying to compile it right now, but I can't promise antyhing. It's late already. Do you need it quickly?
[22:24] <chrisccoulson> qense, not really. i was just going to say that i could probably review and upload it before i go to bed
[22:24] <chrisccoulson> but there's no hurry ;)
[22:25] <hggdh> cheers chrisccoulson
[22:25] <qense> chrisccoulson: Thank you for your offer! But don't stay up too late for me. If it doesn't have any (big) flaws may be able to create a merge request tonight, but otherwise I'm not so sure. ;)
[22:26] <chrisccoulson> cool, thanks for working on that :)
[22:26] <chrisccoulson> hey hggdh
[22:26] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[22:27] <hggdh> life is good, although I am rather bored right now (and slightly pissed, if I may say)
[22:27] <kklimonda> qense, do you have a screenshot? I'd like to see how have you merged both menus from notification icon
[22:27] <chrisccoulson> qense - i wouldn't worry about creating a merge request though, as i'm not too sure who gets the notification mails for those
[22:27] <chrisccoulson> you're probably better off pinging someone on IRC ;)
[22:27] <qense> kklimonda: No screenshot yet, I'm still compiling. But what two menus? I see just one in the code.
[22:28] <kklimonda> qense, erm.. I need more sleep
[22:28] <qense> chrisccoulson: Probably yes, but if we want to start using distributed development seriously we should start using it.
[22:28] <qense> kklimonda: :)
[22:28] <kklimonda> qense, oh, right - have you added a "show/hide window" to the menu? that was the right question!
[22:29] <kklimonda> but I guess DX team should take a look at that
[22:29] <qense> kklimonda: ah, well fortunately that entry was already there, so I needn't to add that.
[22:29] <kklimonda> imo there is some room for improvement (i.e. some things to delete)
[22:29] <qense> They even already have a mechnism for hiding the icon!
[22:29] <qense> I could just replace the function that creates the thing and connect the right things here and there and it was done.
[22:30] <kklimonda> yup
[22:31] <qense> I like such developers.
[22:31] <kklimonda> oh well, when I saw this bug first time I've had some concern about moving the menu over to the indicator applications without changes.. but I can't remember what was that :/
[22:32] <kklimonda> I guess I'm just getting old
[22:33] <qense> nah, there are just too many bugs to remember all details
[22:34] <tathamr> join #ubuntu
[22:36] <hggdh> tathamr: are you the one that applied to bugsquad?
[22:36] <tathamr> Yes, I resubmitted after filling out the correct information.
[22:37] <hggdh> tathamr: thank you. I will approve you as soon as I get the notification
[22:38] <arand> Is this a good upstream for Bug #510571 ?: http://pastebin.com/m6ec89868
[22:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 510571 in linux (Ubuntu) "-11 & later kernels won't boot with acpi, -10 works, Lucid (affects: 7)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/510571
[22:39] <hggdh> tathamr: did you read the HowToTriage?
[23:02] <bulldog98> how do I add my 5 bugs for 5-a-day?
[23:05] <crimsun> you don't; it's automatic
[23:06] <kermiac> bulldog98: just make sure you have joined the 5-a-day group & also make sure your email address is not hidden in launchpad
[23:07] <bulldog98> kermiac: but the 5-a-day group is restricted
[23:07] <kermiac> hang on, I'll find the link
[23:08] <kermiac> https://edge.launchpad.net/~5-a-day-participants
[23:09] <ddecator> i just joined =)
[23:09] <kermiac> :)
[23:10] <ddecator> i'll definitely be able to do 5 a day once i manage to get into bugcontrol...
[23:10] <kermiac> just make sure your email address isn't hidden in launchpad else it wont update your stats
[23:11] <bulldog98> kermiac:Ok thanks I'm in that group allready, but it wasn't documented
[23:11] <kermiac> no probs bulldog98 :)
[23:13] <bulldog98> thank you guys
[23:47] <ddecator> can someone please set bug 517777 to "low" (simply a cosmetic bug that doesn't affect functionality) and "triaged"?
[23:47] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 517777 in nautilus (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Nautilus folder manager generates random colors in folder background when folders are opened. (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517777
[23:48] <ddecator> of course the changes i made to the description didn't save...
[23:51] <yofel> status mess...
[23:52] <ddecator> he changed it back, but i just cleaned it up again
[23:54] <hggdh> ddecator: done. I just do not know how long it will survive the OP
[23:54] <ddecator> thanks hggdh, i appreciate it. idk why the OP keeps changing everything...
[23:54] <yofel> hggdh: good that I saw your message or we would have a double post now ^^
[23:55] <kermiac> can someone pls change bug 517925 to medium/triaged
[23:55] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 517925 in yelp (Ubuntu) "The help files won't print (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517925
[23:57] <kermiac> could be low due to easy workaround, but it is likely to affect a lot of people so I am flipping between medium & low, but thought medium would be safe. Also it is fixed in Lucid
[23:58] <kermiac> so maybe i should mark it as fix released. but I don't know if yelp would be an easy backport or require SRU
[23:58] <charlie-tca> should be fix-released if it is fixed in lucid.
[23:59] <kermiac> yeah, thanks charlie-tca, I'll change that in a sec then
[23:59] <charlie-tca> The workaround is so easy, no backport/sru should be needed
[23:59] <kermiac> ah, thanks again charlie-tca :)