[08:59] <thorwil> godbyk: how do you feel about wolter's proposal?
[09:22] <godbyk> Which proposal?
[09:30] <godbyk> thorwil: Sorry for the late response.. sound was off.  What proposal?
[09:31] <thorwil> godbyk: [Titlepage] New proposal on the mailing list
[09:32] <thorwil> no worries, i don't expect immediate reactions on irc :)
[09:32] <godbyk> Hmm.. it's not too bad.  The door and text is okay.  The lynx seems a bit out of place, though.  Kind of just crammed in there.
[09:33] <godbyk> Might be better to have the "Getting Started with" text larger, but maybe not.
[09:33] <thorwil> godbyk: i start to think that nobody understands my design specification
[09:33] <godbyk> Heh.. that's presuming people have read it. :-)
[09:34] <thorwil> that possibility is included in not understanding ;)
[09:34] <godbyk> I liked your design spec, btw.
[09:34] <godbyk> I've noticed it is difficult to get people to help address those 'designy' questions.
[09:35] <godbyk> Like 'what kind of image do you want to project?'  or  'what tone/voice do you want to use?'
[09:35] <godbyk> 'how should people feel when they read the book?'
[09:35] <godbyk> 'how should people react to it?'
[09:35] <thorwil> godbyk: oh, so far it seemed to go well. but now the hard part is to get people to keep all that inmind
[09:36] <godbyk> All of that wishy-washy feelings stuff goes into the design.
[09:36] <godbyk> And the design matters quite a bit.
[09:36] <godbyk> For instance, I can make the interior of the book a modern design and that evokes certain feelings.
[09:36] <godbyk> I could also make it a more classical design and that would evoke other feelings.
[09:37] <godbyk> So far much of the design discussion has focused on the title page (i.e., the graphics), but we need to bring that same level of discussion to the interior design as well.
[09:38] <thorwil> godbyk: i actually planned to keep the interior a matter between the few people who really care
[09:38] <godbyk> thorwil: What do *you* think of wolter's proposed cover page?
[09:39] <godbyk> Well, that's fine.  (I'd rather that than each individual tossing in their two cents on, say, the color of a heading.)
[09:39] <thorwil> godbyk: it's like an unintentional slap in my face
[09:39] <godbyk> As long as it's still on the plate to be discussed. :-)
[09:41] <godbyk> It is pretty generic and doesn't really say much about the contents.
[09:41] <thorwil> godbyk: i'm very unsure about how to react to it
[09:41] <godbyk> Are we still looking for proposals?  Or was one selected?
[09:43] <thorwil> godbyk: i'd like to not have any complete proposals appear, currently
[09:43] <thorwil> godbyk: but rather move step by step
[09:43] <godbyk> I can agree with that.
[09:44] <godbyk> Would it help to have a meeting of the design-types to make sure everyone's on the same page re: tone/visual identity/etc.?
[09:46] <thorwil> godbyk: guess i should write an email to the group to clearly explain my plans and intentions
[09:47] <godbyk> thorwil: That's probably a good idea. Also, point them to the new Artwork page so they can read the spec (if they haven't already).
[09:48] <godbyk> thorwil: I'm going to start redesigning the interior from the ground up soon.  That way there's a cohesive design there instead of a mish-mash of things smashed together.
[09:49] <godbyk> For instance, I have no idea where the colors for the headings came from, why they're each a different color, etc.
[09:50] <thorwil> godbyk: i might finish my templates today. you can treat them as proposals, i will see what you come up with
[09:50] <godbyk> Sure.
[09:51] <godbyk> A lot of the page layout comes from the content.
[09:52] <godbyk> For instance, if we only have a few, short sidenotes, then we can have a narrow measure for them.
[09:52] <godbyk> But since it looks like we have sidenotes quite frequently and they're usually a bit longer, I'll probably leave more space for them.
[09:53] <godbyk> We'll need to make the margins generous enough that various printers don't clip off any of the content, but small enough that we're not wasting paper.
[09:54] <godbyk> thorwil: Also, since you're good at graphics (and I'm decidedly not), you might give some thought to any icons we'll use on the interior of the book (for warnings, notes, whatever).
[09:55] <thorwil> i wouldn't worry about wasting paper. we have to avoid overly long text lines. plus inner space shrinks in case of perforation
[09:55] <godbyk> Keep in mind that if we expect people to print this, we shouldn't rely on them printing in color.
[09:55] <godbyk> We may want to go so far as to use flat, 2D, grey icons.
[09:56] <godbyk> Yeah, I'm not too concerned about wasting paper at this point.
[09:56] <godbyk> Readability trumps page count, in my opinion.
[09:56] <thorwil> godbyk: make a list of situations where we might want to use an icon, then.
[09:57] <thorwil> to be send to the team
[09:57] <godbyk> thorwil: I'll glance through the text so far and see what I can come up with.  For starters, I'd look at what the giant red ! and !! are used for.  (Since someone asked me specifically to add commands for that.)
[09:58] <godbyk> It's 04h00 here, so I think I'm going to head to bed.  I'll be back on in 10 hours or so, probably.
[09:58] <godbyk> Feel free to leave messages here or email me if you like.
[09:59] <thorwil> godbyk: ok. in 10 hours i will be about leaving :)
[09:59] <godbyk> heh.. stupid time zones!
[20:45] <thorwil> godbyk: dropped the separate header areas in my template. spacing between header and body to be defined in terms of line heights. http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/ubuntu_manual_cover/download/head%3A/layout_a4.svg-20100128134918-yenbpm0zvsr3vg5l-1/layout_a4.svg
[20:47] <dutchie> nice link there :)
[20:49] <thorwil> a bit on the short side
[20:52] <godbyk> thorwil: Cool, I'll take a look.
[20:53] <godbyk> thorwil: I'm not seeing any difference.
[20:54] <godbyk> And running diff on the two SVGs says they're the same.
[20:54] <godbyk> Wrong link?
[20:58] <thorwil> godbyk: opps, yes, wrong revision, sorry
[20:59] <thorwil> now launchpad shows me 5 lines of the svg ...
[21:00] <thorwil> godbyk: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Et-w-/%2Bjunk/ubuntu_manual_cover/download/head%3A/layout_a4.svg-20100128134918-yenbpm0zvsr3vg5l-1/layout_a4.svg
[21:01] <godbyk> ah, that's better.
[21:17] <thorwil> good night!
[21:46] <VARGUX> Hello "people".... :)
[21:48] <dutchie> oi, we're all real here
[21:49] <VARGUX> anyone knows to another people that are translating the manual into spanish?, or who is checking the translation?....
[21:49] <VARGUX> (in ubuntu spanish translator... I say..
[21:49] <dutchie> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+pots/ubuntu-manual/es/+details
[21:50] <dutchie> that's probably a good start
[21:52] <VARGUX> hahaha.. yeah.. my name/nick is here
[21:52] <VARGUX> thanks dutchie... but maybe my question is wrong made
[21:52] <VARGUX> mmm...
[21:56] <VARGUX> dutchie: sorry, need I be part of the ubuntu spanish translator for check the translation?
[21:56] <dutchie> I think so
[21:56] <VARGUX> mmm
[21:57] <VARGUX> I'm waiting for weeks for accept me in this team..
[21:58] <dutchie> someone in #ubuntu-es probably could approve you, try asking in there
[21:59] <VARGUX> becuase I'm translating several strings... and I think that this translation not available for the following releases
[22:00] <VARGUX> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-l10n-es/+members#proposed
[22:01] <VARGUX> then... lol... these guys dont accept no one, I think...
[22:01] <dutchie> poke them in #ubuntu-es then
[22:02] <VARGUX> they need a slap on  the wrist :P
[22:02] <VARGUX> I'm not a snitch :)
[22:03] <dutchie> just ask them in #ubuntu-es, it's probably  just something they haven't got around to doing for a while
[22:04] <VARGUX> yeah...
[22:04] <VARGUX> thanks dutchie for your time
[22:04] <dutchie> no problem