=== jenkinbr- is now known as jenkinbr
TakyojiAre there any other reasonable text-to-speech solutions other than Orca?00:37
TakyojiAlpha_Cluster returns00:38
Alpha_Clusteri keep forgetting to add this channel to MacIrssi on my MBP00:38
Takyojiotherwise one thing I don't entirely understand; FOSS can infringe upon patents, as long as there's no form of profit from it, correct, or?00:40
Alpha_Clusterlegally it cant still00:40
Takyoji(to how I interpreted something written on the FAQ for ReactOS)00:41
Alpha_Clusterbut the question they patent owner usually asks is "Can i make money off this"00:41
Alpha_ClusterFOSS tends to not be "worth" anything from that perspective00:41
Alpha_ClusterReactOS is a funny situation00:41
Alpha_Clustercause Microsoft would get lots of shit for trying to crack down on them.00:42
Takyojiheh ahh00:43
Alpha_ClusterMicrosoft generally doesnt sue FOSS cause it would cause a huge cascade of patent suits00:43
TakyojiA backfire, or?00:47
Takyojior that it would be such a vast array of firms they'd had to create a suit against?00:48
Alpha_Clusterthere is a group that  Novell, Red Hat and IBM started that holds a bunch of patents as well00:50
Alpha_Clusterboth sides infringe on each others with basic OS and Windowing designs00:50
Alpha_Clusterso we pretty much have a patent detante00:50
TakyojiWoo, chili01:00
TakyojiI need something to work on for the LoCo website..01:01
* Takyoji pokes at the deadness of the channel with a stick02:26
mr_stevehowdy folks02:46
mr_steveUbuntu hour was very fun, although we didn't really accomplish anything02:49
mr_stevetonyyarusso, I'm going to commit at this time to the first friday of every month for sure, and I'm gonna try for every other week02:50
TakyojiI'm dying to add/adjust more of the Minnesota LoCo website...03:48
mr_steveTakyoji, If you want to add some info about my Ubuntu hour events, feel free. Otherwise I'm going to do it later tonight03:57
TakyojiYou probably could03:58
mr_steveYeah, I'm planning on it. Just figured if you really wanted something to do... but I just realzed the location of the next one is still TBD03:59
mr_stevethe place me and _diablo went had broken wi-fi, and apparently it almost never works. Boo.03:59
Takyojiheh ahh04:01
mr_steveHeh, we had no wi-fi, no Ubuntu CDs, and the laptop _diablo brought to install on was busted. Still fun though, I definitely want to meet some more of the LoCo folks04:04
TakyojiIn which city?04:08
mr_steveWell, I'm trapped in Minneapolis04:09
TakyojiSo are pbuilder and dpkg-buildpackage different ways to build a deb file, or?04:18
mr_steveTakyoji, yup04:19
mr_steveAlong with debuild, just to make it confusing04:19
TakyojiI went through the basic packaging guide on the Ubuntu wiki; and don't have a deb file yet04:20
mr_steveThe main difference, which makes pbuilder important, is that pbuilder builds in a chroot, with only the build-deps specified by the package04:20
mr_steveSo if a package doesn't specify it's build-deps right, it might succeed if built directly on your system, but fail in pbuilder, so you can catch those mistakes04:21
Takyojisome things I also noticed about the wiki page is that the generated rules file is quite different than the result I have; the ubuntu package didn't hae a postinst nor prerm file to copy to the debian directory, and it refers to an older version of debhelper, version 5.04:23
TakyojiI've completed all the way down to "Building the Source Package"04:23
mr_steveYeah, the docs are nuts04:24
TakyojiThen someone needs to fix it! :P04:24
TakyojiThink of all the other poor souls04:24
mr_steveAgreed. I'm not up to that task yet, though. I just learned I don't need to muck about with python-central, that I should probably use python-support instead, and that debhelper 7 does it automatically.04:25
mr_steveNone of which is in the docs04:25
Takyojioh fun04:25
mr_steveOh, and #ubuntu-motu is definitely hard to get a response in, unless they're already talking about whatever you wanna talk about.04:28
TakyojiAs I noticed04:28
TakyojiI also noticed you in the channel yesterday as well. :P04:28
TakyojiIt's an annoying thing; when there's hundreds of people, but they don't care to respond04:29
mr_steveYou might wanna also try the ubuntu-motu-mentors mailing list04:29
TakyojiESPECIALLY in the marketing channel04:29
tonyyarussomr_steve: cool04:29
mr_steveheya chief, how goes?04:30
* Takyoji notices a message by mr_steve in the mailing list archives, from yesterday04:30
tonyyarussoTakyoji: Triage is both prioritizing, and if possible, categorizing in other ways as well.  For instance, you might know which team to assign it to, might know better than the submitter which package to mark it as affecting, etc.04:31
tonyyarussoit's an Alpha_Cluster !04:31
Takyojitonyyarusso: we must further work towards our plan of world domination..04:31
Alpha_Clusterwait what?04:31
Alpha_Clusteram i here?04:31
mr_steveNo, it's a bad dream. Go back to sleep :)04:32
Alpha_Clusterahh ok04:32
tonyyarussoTakyoji: as for the group Alpha_Cluster mentioned re: patents, it's basically a Mutually Assured Destruction situation of patent holdings by two superpowers :P04:32
Alpha_Clusterthe Patent Cold War04:32
TakyojiI need guidance on where to progress next on my crusade, of the YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP04:33
TakyojiWhat is there that we can do to improve more as a team/resource?04:34
Alpha_Clusteryou know that was last year... and the year before that oh andthe one before04:34
Alpha_Clusteroh wait they have said that EVERY year for like the last 504:34
mr_steveIf we really wanted to kick some a** as a LoCo, we could consider getting groups of us together to work on triage, or packaging, or whatever.04:34
Takyoji2010: A Linux Odyssey04:35
tonyyarussoTakyoji: Take a look at the area-groups blueprint, expand the list of known groups on the linked wiki page, and then start drafting a plan for contacting them and how we can propose working together.04:35
mr_steveAnd of course marketing04:35
tonyyarussomr_steve: "Jams", as they're called, yes.04:35
TakyojiAnd that's one thing I'm dying for to have04:35
Takyojiis interested people to actually assemble and collaborate04:35
Takyojirather than just individual doing their own thing quietly04:35
Alpha_Clustermr_steve, i would but in the middle of nowhere04:36
Takyojiand in real-time as well04:36
mr_steveIf something could be arranged I'd be happy to talk abit about triage, I must have handled 50-100 bugs so far.04:36
mr_steveI was trying for bugcontrol membership before I started school, now I just don't have that kind of time04:37
TakyojiAnyone have thoughts on my suggestion of our own form of ShipIt for the time being?04:37
Takyoji(in the time being of not being an approved group, and having to buy the discs; which shouldn't be that drastic in price or demand)04:37
tonyyarussoTakyoji: it's a decent idea - you'll want to do some research into what the actual costs would be.04:37
tonyyarussoFirst you have to decide whether burned discs are sufficient or if they need to be official ones with the nice artwork and whatnot.04:38
TakyojiActually I guess it's over $1.58 a disc04:38
tonyyarussoThen you need to consider how much capital you're willing to invest in inventory, and figure out the appropriate number to get.04:38
tonyyarussoThen you'd need to know what form of mailing is appropriate for sending a single CD-ROM domestically, and the cost of that.04:39
TakyojiAdditionally people could even just pick up discs from certain locations as well04:40
Takyojirather than waiting a couple days for something to go like a half mile from a distributor's house to the recipient.04:40
tonyyarussoWell, that assumes a certain distribution of distributors and requesters.04:43
tonyyarussoand the more distribution points you have, the more places you'd have to ship bulk to and the more inventory you'd have to maintain04:43
TakyojiI'm just implying for certain situations; not all04:43
tonyyarussoAs a quick estimate, consider these numbers:04:46
tonyyarussoStarting inventory: 100 Ubuntu 9.10 Desktop CDs with official artwork04:47
tonyyarussoCD cost: $128.0104:47
tonyyarussoShipping to distributor: apparently free (!)04:47
tonyyarussoPrepaid USPS cardboard shipping envelopes (so, package plus postage): $49004:48
tonyyarussoTotal source to recipient cost: $6.18 per CD04:48
tonyyarussoAre you willing to cover that?04:49
TakyojiWhen I start working a bit more; who knows. :P04:49
TakyojiAnd if about 10 people feel willing to participate and divide the costs, that would be about $49 each of the 10 would have to pay up front04:50
TakyojiSo for area groups; would that mostly be Linux-related, or just anything technology-related?05:02
tonyyarussothe latter05:05
tonyyarussoanything where we can a) contribute skills, b) raise awareness, c) recruit new members, etc05:06
Takyojiand this would exclude any commercial companies, or?05:07
tonyyarussoum, explain what you're thinking of.05:07
TakyojiVendors of products; although that would be an alternate thing to work on later on05:08
tonyyarussoThat would be outside the scope of the existing blueprint; you should file a separate one for that sort of thing.05:08
TakyojiPenguins Unbound is just one individual rather than a group, correct?05:09
tonyyarussoThis is for things like Free Geek, ACM, AWC, etc.05:09
tonyyarussoeh, sort of.05:09
tonyyarussoPenguins Unbound basically is a LUG that's avoiding calling itself that because of political issues within TCLUG.05:10
tonyyarussoessentially, PU *is* the modern TCLUG as far as all in-person events go.05:10
TakyojiInteresting. Found "Unix Users of Minnesota"05:12
TakyojiThough it sounds specifically Unix rather than Unix-like05:13
Takyojihttp://openmn.com - although I have a feeling it's an individual05:15
Takyojibut could lead somewhere05:15
tonyyarussoYeah, there are a bunch of "organizations" around here that are just some guy with a web site I'm afraid :(05:15
Takyojihttp://m7.8m.com/index2.htm (note: supposedly has popups, but blocked by Firefox)05:17
TakyojiHoly crap that's old. Year 200005:18
tonyyarussoTCLUG's postings are ancient too05:18
tonyyarussoyikes, are they going for a prize for most terrible web design?05:19
tonyyarusso"I know, let's put all of the actual content in a box 25 pixels high!"05:19
TakyojiRemember, that was the Web 1.0 era. :P05:19
tonyyarussoThat doesn't mean it wasn't crap by those standards too.05:20
tonyyarusso(The last info on the TCLUG site is 2003)05:21
TakyojiI suppose we should also be listed in LUG listings as well05:21
TakyojiBecause if people search for a Minnesota LUG (Specifically), they'll find all the other [dead] groups except us at first attempt05:22
TakyojiIn other words, it would be useful to find a way to be added to http://linux.org/groups/usa/minnesota.html05:23
TakyojiPlus, that would add a little for PageRank as well05:23
Takyojiand crap, I haven't gotten my Linux Journal magazine for the month yet..05:26
tonyyarussoTakyoji: e-mails sent to webmasters.05:35
mr_steveWtf.. my math homework asserts that (-590)/(-0.70) == 84305:41
tonyyarussomr_steve: what's wrong with that?05:42
mr_steveThe instructions say nothing about rounding05:44
tonyyarussoWell, what's the context of the question?  Perhaps it only makes sense to do so.05:44
tonyyarussoalthough if it's a word problem of some sort the answer should only be 84005:45
mr_steveeh, well... it is a word problem, dealing with numbers of people... so 842.8571429 would be a pretty strange number of humans05:46
tonyyarussooh, well there you go then.  Integer required.05:46
tonyyarussoand like a step function too, not just rounding to nearest.05:46
mr_steveSo rounding is logical, but I reworked the problem 6 times trying to figure out why I was getting such a funky number, since I thought for sure it was wrong05:47
tonyyarussoWell that's just you being slow to catch on ;)05:47
mr_steveVery slow05:47
mr_steveMath and I do not have the best relationship05:48
mr_steveThat's why I'm paying about $800 for the privilege of taking high-school level algebra at MCTC05:49
tonyyarussohow did you graduate HS?05:51
mr_steveI could pass the 8th grade basic standards tests, and that's all my high school really cared about05:52
tonyyarussooh :S05:53
mr_stevePlus I was working tech support for them almost full time as an intern, so they just shuffled some of my credits around so I could graduate and work for them for real05:53
mr_steveTurned my 5 semesters of photography class into math credits :)05:54
mr_steveI suppose if I ever go back for a 4yr degree in comp-sci or something I'll need to know this stuff, eh?05:56
tonyyarussocuz that sounds ethical...05:56
mr_steveEthics were to MTS what a bicycle is to a fish.05:57
tonyyarussoOr if you ever want to, you know, succeed at life without your own personal math person following you around.05:57
TakyojiSignificant digits06:05
TakyojiThe first value only implies 2 significant digits06:06
mr_steveno comprendo06:09
TakyojiThough the typical mathematics class doesn't really care06:12
TakyojiBut for physics, for example, yes06:12
tonyyarussoTakyoji: heh - feedback@linux.org bounces.06:15
Takyoji"If your group is not included in our list, please email webmaster@linux.org with all the details. There's no charge to be included on our site, and we'll automatically create a link to your group's web site as long as you give us the URL!"06:16
TakyojiSo you sent to the wrong address. :P06:17
tonyyarusso(that was the address in the footer)06:18
TakyojiJust noticed06:18
tonyyarussoanyway, bedtime06:18
=== sparkle_history is now known as sparklehistory
* Takyoji wonders how many others here use Miro17:26
TakyojiI subscribe to Linux Journal, Hak5, Category5, Onion News, etc17:30
tonyyarussoTakyoji: btw, it wasn't the wrong address - I actually read the bounce message the second time - their mail server is blocking all Google IPs.17:33
* Takyoji rejoices over the soon-to-come outphasing of IE6 by Google17:55
tonyyarussoWhat's IE6?  :P17:58
TakyojiThat thing careless people use! :o17:58
TakyojiOr are forced to use, due to an illiterate sysop/netop for their company17:59
Takyojiotherwise for my "suggestion" at the previous meeting; it's pretty much just setting a goal for the month18:15
TakyojiSo there's specifically a Drupal module that may be useful for such?18:36
tonyyarussoToo bad I didn't have it in mind yet the other day when I looked through them all...18:37
Takyojiotherwise we could just even have it on a wiki-basis for now18:43
TakyojiI'm reading through modules right now18:44
TakyojiAnd I say 'otherwise' a bit too much18:44
tonyyarussoYou'll be looking for ones mentioning "timesheet", "time tracker", plus the core profile module for posting the goals.18:45
tonyyarussoYou'd probably want to then also hack your own "thermometer" one to show progress, building off the donations thermometer module.18:45
* Takyoji pokes tonyyarusso19:35
TakyojiCompiled a list of modules relating to the general functionality of interest19:36
TakyojiSearch queries I used to find those were: action, meter, goal, donation, tracker, tasks19:38
tonyyarussoCould you please go through that list and edit the page with a brief justification / sample use case for each as well?19:38
TakyojiWhat I mean is to choose one of them; not all of them19:44
Takyojiin case if you misunderstood that aspect19:45
TakyojiI suppose I'll just narrow it down to Community Tasks and Hours. They seem to be relatively active projects and provide what we need19:50
TakyojiCase Tracker is would be the next potential option19:51
tonyyarussoI have no idea why project is on your list btw20:05
TakyojiThe list was compiled of anything that looked remotely relevant, but not thoroughly observed20:08
tonyyarussoah.  Then you still have a little sifting to do :)20:15
TakyojiBut I'm not a very decisive person. :P20:23
Takyojiso what installfests are currently planned?20:23
tonyyarussonone atm20:28
kermitare there any linux job fairs around?20:29
tonyyarussoThat's an excellent question - I have no idea about such a thing's existence.20:32
kermiti need a linux job downtown really soon20:35
tonyyarussocraigslist is a good start20:37
* tonyyarusso goes to clean20:37
TakyojiSo Theora (or the basis of it) is based off an older codec technology that was made by the same company that created H.264, or?21:41
kermittonyyarusso: ahh, thanks21:52
kermittonyyarusso: i've never heard that suggested before21:52
=== sparkle_history is now known as sparklehistory
TakyojiAhh yes, SSH is so nice22:45
TakyojiMy mother wanted me to copy pictures off for her on her computer, and I'm just SSHing into the machine and copying from the SD card to her desktop folder.22:46
tonyyarussoYeah, I use it to get at all of my storage when on the go with my netbook.22:49
TakyojiI'm curious what will be the result of NeatX, which is supposedly Google's open recreation of the NX technology23:02

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