[00:37] <Takyoji> Are there any other reasonable text-to-speech solutions other than Orca?
[00:38] <Takyoji> Alpha_Cluster returns
[00:38] <Alpha_Cluster> >.<
[00:38] <Alpha_Cluster> i keep forgetting to add this channel to MacIrssi on my MBP
[00:38] <Takyoji> ahh
[00:40] <Takyoji> otherwise one thing I don't entirely understand; FOSS can infringe upon patents, as long as there's no form of profit from it, correct, or?
[00:40] <Alpha_Cluster> legally it cant still
[00:41] <Takyoji> (to how I interpreted something written on the FAQ for ReactOS)
[00:41] <Alpha_Cluster> but the question they patent owner usually asks is "Can i make money off this"
[00:41] <Alpha_Cluster> FOSS tends to not be "worth" anything from that perspective
[00:41] <Alpha_Cluster> ReactOS is a funny situation
[00:42] <Alpha_Cluster> cause Microsoft would get lots of shit for trying to crack down on them.
[00:43] <Takyoji> heh ahh
[00:43] <Alpha_Cluster> Microsoft generally doesnt sue FOSS cause it would cause a huge cascade of patent suits
[00:47] <Takyoji> A backfire, or?
[00:48] <Takyoji> or that it would be such a vast array of firms they'd had to create a suit against?
[00:50] <Alpha_Cluster> there is a group that  Novell, Red Hat and IBM started that holds a bunch of patents as well
[00:50] <Alpha_Cluster> both sides infringe on each others with basic OS and Windowing designs
[00:50] <Alpha_Cluster> so we pretty much have a patent detante
[00:52] <Takyoji> ahh
[01:00] <Takyoji> Woo, chili
[01:01] <Takyoji> I need something to work on for the LoCo website..
[02:26]  * Takyoji pokes at the deadness of the channel with a stick
[02:46] <mr_steve> howdy folks
[02:49] <mr_steve> Ubuntu hour was very fun, although we didn't really accomplish anything
[02:50] <mr_steve> tonyyarusso, I'm going to commit at this time to the first friday of every month for sure, and I'm gonna try for every other week
[03:48] <Takyoji> I'm dying to add/adjust more of the Minnesota LoCo website...
[03:57] <mr_steve> Takyoji, If you want to add some info about my Ubuntu hour events, feel free. Otherwise I'm going to do it later tonight
[03:58] <Takyoji> You probably could
[03:59] <mr_steve> Yeah, I'm planning on it. Just figured if you really wanted something to do... but I just realzed the location of the next one is still TBD
[03:59] <mr_steve> the place me and _diablo went had broken wi-fi, and apparently it almost never works. Boo.
[04:01] <Takyoji> heh ahh
[04:04] <mr_steve> Heh, we had no wi-fi, no Ubuntu CDs, and the laptop _diablo brought to install on was busted. Still fun though, I definitely want to meet some more of the LoCo folks
[04:08] <Takyoji> In which city?
[04:09] <mr_steve> Well, I'm trapped in Minneapolis
[04:09] <Takyoji> ahh
[04:18] <Takyoji> So are pbuilder and dpkg-buildpackage different ways to build a deb file, or?
[04:19] <mr_steve> Takyoji, yup
[04:19] <mr_steve> Along with debuild, just to make it confusing
[04:20] <Takyoji> I went through the basic packaging guide on the Ubuntu wiki; and don't have a deb file yet
[04:20] <Takyoji> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Basic
[04:20] <mr_steve> The main difference, which makes pbuilder important, is that pbuilder builds in a chroot, with only the build-deps specified by the package
[04:20] <Takyoji> ahh
[04:21] <mr_steve> So if a package doesn't specify it's build-deps right, it might succeed if built directly on your system, but fail in pbuilder, so you can catch those mistakes
[04:23] <Takyoji> some things I also noticed about the wiki page is that the generated rules file is quite different than the result I have; the ubuntu package didn't hae a postinst nor prerm file to copy to the debian directory, and it refers to an older version of debhelper, version 5.
[04:23] <Takyoji> I've completed all the way down to "Building the Source Package"
[04:24] <mr_steve> Yeah, the docs are nuts
[04:24] <Takyoji> Then someone needs to fix it! :P
[04:24] <Takyoji> Think of all the other poor souls
[04:25] <mr_steve> Agreed. I'm not up to that task yet, though. I just learned I don't need to muck about with python-central, that I should probably use python-support instead, and that debhelper 7 does it automatically.
[04:25] <mr_steve> None of which is in the docs
[04:25] <Takyoji> oh fun
[04:28] <mr_steve> Oh, and #ubuntu-motu is definitely hard to get a response in, unless they're already talking about whatever you wanna talk about.
[04:28] <Takyoji> As I noticed
[04:28] <Takyoji> I also noticed you in the channel yesterday as well. :P
[04:29] <Takyoji> It's an annoying thing; when there's hundreds of people, but they don't care to respond
[04:29] <mr_steve> You might wanna also try the ubuntu-motu-mentors mailing list
[04:29] <Takyoji> ESPECIALLY in the marketing channel
[04:29] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: cool
[04:30] <mr_steve> heya chief, how goes?
[04:30]  * Takyoji notices a message by mr_steve in the mailing list archives, from yesterday
[04:31] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Triage is both prioritizing, and if possible, categorizing in other ways as well.  For instance, you might know which team to assign it to, might know better than the submitter which package to mark it as affecting, etc.
[04:31] <tonyyarusso> it's an Alpha_Cluster !
[04:31] <Takyoji> tonyyarusso: we must further work towards our plan of world domination..
[04:31] <Takyoji> ahh
[04:31] <Alpha_Cluster> ?
[04:31] <Alpha_Cluster> wait what?
[04:31] <Alpha_Cluster> am i here?
[04:32] <mr_steve> No, it's a bad dream. Go back to sleep :)
[04:32] <Alpha_Cluster> ahh ok
[04:32] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: as for the group Alpha_Cluster mentioned re: patents, it's basically a Mutually Assured Destruction situation of patent holdings by two superpowers :P
[04:32] <Alpha_Cluster> :)
[04:32] <Alpha_Cluster> the Patent Cold War
[04:33] <Takyoji> I need guidance on where to progress next on my crusade, of the YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP
[04:33] <Takyoji> :P
[04:34] <Takyoji> What is there that we can do to improve more as a team/resource?
[04:34] <Alpha_Cluster> you know that was last year... and the year before that oh andthe one before
[04:34] <Alpha_Cluster> oh wait they have said that EVERY year for like the last 5
[04:34] <mr_steve> If we really wanted to kick some a** as a LoCo, we could consider getting groups of us together to work on triage, or packaging, or whatever.
[04:35] <Takyoji> 2010: A Linux Odyssey
[04:35] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Take a look at the area-groups blueprint, expand the list of known groups on the linked wiki page, and then start drafting a plan for contacting them and how we can propose working together.
[04:35] <mr_steve> And of course marketing
[04:35] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: "Jams", as they're called, yes.
[04:35] <Takyoji> And that's one thing I'm dying for to have
[04:35] <Takyoji> is interested people to actually assemble and collaborate
[04:35] <Takyoji> rather than just individual doing their own thing quietly
[04:35] <Takyoji> individually*
[04:36] <Alpha_Cluster> mr_steve, i would but in the middle of nowhere
[04:36] <Takyoji> and in real-time as well
[04:36] <mr_steve> If something could be arranged I'd be happy to talk abit about triage, I must have handled 50-100 bugs so far.
[04:37] <mr_steve> I was trying for bugcontrol membership before I started school, now I just don't have that kind of time
[04:37] <Takyoji> Anyone have thoughts on my suggestion of our own form of ShipIt for the time being?
[04:37] <Takyoji> (in the time being of not being an approved group, and having to buy the discs; which shouldn't be that drastic in price or demand)
[04:37] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: it's a decent idea - you'll want to do some research into what the actual costs would be.
[04:38] <tonyyarusso> First you have to decide whether burned discs are sufficient or if they need to be official ones with the nice artwork and whatnot.
[04:38] <Takyoji> Actually I guess it's over $1.58 a disc
[04:38] <tonyyarusso> Then you need to consider how much capital you're willing to invest in inventory, and figure out the appropriate number to get.
[04:39] <tonyyarusso> Then you'd need to know what form of mailing is appropriate for sending a single CD-ROM domestically, and the cost of that.
[04:40] <Takyoji> Additionally people could even just pick up discs from certain locations as well
[04:40] <Takyoji> rather than waiting a couple days for something to go like a half mile from a distributor's house to the recipient.
[04:43] <tonyyarusso> Well, that assumes a certain distribution of distributors and requesters.
[04:43] <tonyyarusso> and the more distribution points you have, the more places you'd have to ship bulk to and the more inventory you'd have to maintain
[04:43] <Takyoji> I'm just implying for certain situations; not all
[04:46] <tonyyarusso> As a quick estimate, consider these numbers:
[04:47] <tonyyarusso> Starting inventory: 100 Ubuntu 9.10 Desktop CDs with official artwork
[04:47] <tonyyarusso> CD cost: $128.01
[04:47] <tonyyarusso> Shipping to distributor: apparently free (!)
[04:48] <tonyyarusso> Prepaid USPS cardboard shipping envelopes (so, package plus postage): $490
[04:48] <tonyyarusso> Total source to recipient cost: $6.18 per CD
[04:49] <tonyyarusso> Are you willing to cover that?
[04:49] <Takyoji> When I start working a bit more; who knows. :P
[04:50] <Takyoji> And if about 10 people feel willing to participate and divide the costs, that would be about $49 each of the 10 would have to pay up front
[05:02] <Takyoji> So for area groups; would that mostly be Linux-related, or just anything technology-related?
[05:05] <tonyyarusso> the latter
[05:06] <tonyyarusso> anything where we can a) contribute skills, b) raise awareness, c) recruit new members, etc
[05:07] <Takyoji> and this would exclude any commercial companies, or?
[05:07] <tonyyarusso> um, explain what you're thinking of.
[05:08] <Takyoji> Vendors of products; although that would be an alternate thing to work on later on
[05:08] <tonyyarusso> That would be outside the scope of the existing blueprint; you should file a separate one for that sort of thing.
[05:09] <Takyoji> Penguins Unbound is just one individual rather than a group, correct?
[05:09] <tonyyarusso> This is for things like Free Geek, ACM, AWC, etc.
[05:09] <tonyyarusso> eh, sort of.
[05:09] <Takyoji> ahh
[05:10] <tonyyarusso> Penguins Unbound basically is a LUG that's avoiding calling itself that because of political issues within TCLUG.
[05:10] <tonyyarusso> essentially, PU *is* the modern TCLUG as far as all in-person events go.
[05:10] <Takyoji> ahh
[05:12] <Takyoji> Interesting. Found "Unix Users of Minnesota"
[05:12] <Takyoji> http://uum.org
[05:13] <Takyoji> Though it sounds specifically Unix rather than Unix-like
[05:14] <tonyyarusso> right
[05:15] <Takyoji> http://openmn.com - although I have a feeling it's an individual
[05:15] <Takyoji> but could lead somewhere
[05:15] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, there are a bunch of "organizations" around here that are just some guy with a web site I'm afraid :(
[05:17] <Takyoji> http://m7.8m.com/index2.htm (note: supposedly has popups, but blocked by Firefox)
[05:18] <Takyoji> Holy crap that's old. Year 2000
[05:18] <tonyyarusso> TCLUG's postings are ancient too
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> yikes, are they going for a prize for most terrible web design?
[05:19] <tonyyarusso> "I know, let's put all of the actual content in a box 25 pixels high!"
[05:19] <Takyoji> Remember, that was the Web 1.0 era. :P
[05:20] <tonyyarusso> That doesn't mean it wasn't crap by those standards too.
[05:21] <tonyyarusso> (The last info on the TCLUG site is 2003)
[05:21] <Takyoji> I suppose we should also be listed in LUG listings as well
[05:22] <Takyoji> Because if people search for a Minnesota LUG (Specifically), they'll find all the other [dead] groups except us at first attempt
[05:23] <Takyoji> In other words, it would be useful to find a way to be added to http://linux.org/groups/usa/minnesota.html
[05:23] <Takyoji> Plus, that would add a little for PageRank as well
[05:26] <Takyoji> and crap, I haven't gotten my Linux Journal magazine for the month yet..
[05:35] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: e-mails sent to webmasters.
[05:41] <mr_steve> Wtf.. my math homework asserts that (-590)/(-0.70) == 843
[05:42] <tonyyarusso> mr_steve: what's wrong with that?
[05:44] <mr_steve> The instructions say nothing about rounding
[05:44] <tonyyarusso> Well, what's the context of the question?  Perhaps it only makes sense to do so.
[05:45] <tonyyarusso> although if it's a word problem of some sort the answer should only be 840
[05:46] <mr_steve> eh, well... it is a word problem, dealing with numbers of people... so 842.8571429 would be a pretty strange number of humans
[05:46] <tonyyarusso> oh, well there you go then.  Integer required.
[05:46] <tonyyarusso> and like a step function too, not just rounding to nearest.
[05:47] <mr_steve> So rounding is logical, but I reworked the problem 6 times trying to figure out why I was getting such a funky number, since I thought for sure it was wrong
[05:47] <tonyyarusso> Well that's just you being slow to catch on ;)
[05:47] <mr_steve> Very slow
[05:48] <mr_steve> Math and I do not have the best relationship
[05:49] <mr_steve> That's why I'm paying about $800 for the privilege of taking high-school level algebra at MCTC
[05:50] <tonyyarusso> heh
[05:51] <tonyyarusso> ouch
[05:51] <tonyyarusso> how did you graduate HS?
[05:52] <mr_steve> I could pass the 8th grade basic standards tests, and that's all my high school really cared about
[05:53] <tonyyarusso> oh :S
[05:53] <mr_steve> Plus I was working tech support for them almost full time as an intern, so they just shuffled some of my credits around so I could graduate and work for them for real
[05:54] <mr_steve> Turned my 5 semesters of photography class into math credits :)
[05:56] <mr_steve> I suppose if I ever go back for a 4yr degree in comp-sci or something I'll need to know this stuff, eh?
[05:56] <tonyyarusso> cuz that sounds ethical...
[05:57] <mr_steve> Ethics were to MTS what a bicycle is to a fish.
[05:57] <tonyyarusso> Or if you ever want to, you know, succeed at life without your own personal math person following you around.
[06:05] <Takyoji> Significant digits
[06:06] <Takyoji> The first value only implies 2 significant digits
[06:09] <mr_steve> no comprendo
[06:10] <Takyoji> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_digits
[06:12] <Takyoji> Though the typical mathematics class doesn't really care
[06:12] <Takyoji> But for physics, for example, yes
[06:15] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: heh - feedback@linux.org bounces.
[06:15] <Takyoji> heh
[06:16] <Takyoji> "If your group is not included in our list, please email webmaster@linux.org with all the details. There's no charge to be included on our site, and we'll automatically create a link to your group's web site as long as you give us the URL!"
[06:17] <Takyoji> So you sent to the wrong address. :P
[06:18] <tonyyarusso> resent
[06:18] <tonyyarusso> (that was the address in the footer)
[06:18] <Takyoji> Just noticed
[06:18] <tonyyarusso> anyway, bedtime
[06:18] <Takyoji> Same
[17:26]  * Takyoji wonders how many others here use Miro
[17:30] <Takyoji> I subscribe to Linux Journal, Hak5, Category5, Onion News, etc
[17:33] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: btw, it wasn't the wrong address - I actually read the bounce message the second time - their mail server is blocking all Google IPs.
[17:33] <Takyoji> awkward
[17:55]  * Takyoji rejoices over the soon-to-come outphasing of IE6 by Google
[17:58] <tonyyarusso> What's IE6?  :P
[17:58] <Takyoji> That thing careless people use! :o
[17:59] <Takyoji> Or are forced to use, due to an illiterate sysop/netop for their company
[18:15] <Takyoji> otherwise for my "suggestion" at the previous meeting; it's pretty much just setting a goal for the month
[18:36] <Takyoji> So there's specifically a Drupal module that may be useful for such?
[18:37] <tonyyarusso> possibly
[18:37] <tonyyarusso> Too bad I didn't have it in mind yet the other day when I looked through them all...
[18:43] <Takyoji> otherwise we could just even have it on a wiki-basis for now
[18:44] <Takyoji> I'm reading through modules right now
[18:44] <Takyoji> And I say 'otherwise' a bit too much
[18:45] <tonyyarusso> You'll be looking for ones mentioning "timesheet", "time tracker", plus the core profile module for posting the goals.
[18:45] <tonyyarusso> You'd probably want to then also hack your own "thermometer" one to show progress, building off the donations thermometer module.
[19:35]  * Takyoji pokes tonyyarusso
[19:36] <tonyyarusso> yes?
[19:36] <Takyoji> http://ubuntu-minnesota.org/possible-modules
[19:36] <Takyoji> Compiled a list of modules relating to the general functionality of interest
[19:38] <Takyoji> Search queries I used to find those were: action, meter, goal, donation, tracker, tasks
[19:38] <tonyyarusso> Could you please go through that list and edit the page with a brief justification / sample use case for each as well?
[19:38] <Takyoji> already
[19:38] <Takyoji> alright*
[19:44] <Takyoji> What I mean is to choose one of them; not all of them
[19:45] <Takyoji> in case if you misunderstood that aspect
[19:50] <Takyoji> I suppose I'll just narrow it down to Community Tasks and Hours. They seem to be relatively active projects and provide what we need
[19:51] <Takyoji> Case Tracker is would be the next potential option
[20:05] <tonyyarusso> I have no idea why project is on your list btw
[20:08] <Takyoji> The list was compiled of anything that looked remotely relevant, but not thoroughly observed
[20:15] <tonyyarusso> ah.  Then you still have a little sifting to do :)
[20:23] <Takyoji> But I'm not a very decisive person. :P
[20:23] <Takyoji> so what installfests are currently planned?
[20:28] <tonyyarusso> none atm
[20:29] <kermit> are there any linux job fairs around?
[20:32] <tonyyarusso> That's an excellent question - I have no idea about such a thing's existence.
[20:35] <kermit> i need a linux job downtown really soon
[20:37] <tonyyarusso> craigslist is a good start
[20:37]  * tonyyarusso goes to clean
[21:41] <Takyoji> So Theora (or the basis of it) is based off an older codec technology that was made by the same company that created H.264, or?
[21:43] <Takyoji> VP3
[21:52] <kermit> tonyyarusso: ahh, thanks
[21:52] <kermit> tonyyarusso: i've never heard that suggested before
[22:45] <Takyoji> Ahh yes, SSH is so nice
[22:46] <Takyoji> My mother wanted me to copy pictures off for her on her computer, and I'm just SSHing into the machine and copying from the SD card to her desktop folder.
[22:49] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, I use it to get at all of my storage when on the go with my netbook.
[22:49] <Takyoji> ahh
[23:02] <Takyoji> I'm curious what will be the result of NeatX, which is supposedly Google's open recreation of the NX technology