=== David-T is now known as Guest16283
obxthis is the 3rd time an update to the Linux kernel messed up either Xorg or my video card driver. I filed a bug report for both of the first bugs and it took several months to fix it, although many people reported the same bug. and now, after the recent update, I had to reinstall the graphic card drivers and xorg is eating up CPU again. serious question: is it so hard to get it right before officially releasing an update and not beta test it on01:50
obx the user base?01:50
ravenxbishop1any chance anyone in here can point me in a direction for help in porting drivers?01:51
ravenxbishop1maybe to someone who is amaising at it01:51
ravenxbishop1or maybe just a great developer01:51
ravenxbishop1i promise there IS no port of this driver, im not just over looking something thats allready done01:51
jmarsdenravenxbishop1: The Kernel Driver Project.  See http://www.linuxdriverproject.org/foswiki/bin/view01:55
ravenxbishop1thanks i'll check it out01:59
KeybukI'm not sure you can really "port" a driver though02:01
ravenxbishop1oh that wont work tho02:01
ravenxbishop1because theres no specs02:01
ravenxbishop1and no way to get them02:01
Keybukif you don't have the specs, how do you know how to write a driver?02:02
ravenxbishop1well, its called reverse engineering02:02
Keybukso do that02:02
Keybukthen write the spec as a result02:02
Keybukthen write the driver02:02
ravenxbishop1nod i need someone who is good at it02:02
ravenxbishop1i didnt say I WAS02:02
ionWhat does *he* need *you* for? :-P02:03
ravenxbishop1depends, he doesnt actually, but it could be something we both want to do for any number of reasons02:03
ravenxbishop1why so much animosity?02:03
Keybukthere's no animosity02:04
ravenxbishop1well ion sounded... uhm02:04
ravenxbishop1i just want some help, so i can use linux02:04
Keybuksure, but writing a driver is *hard*02:04
ravenxbishop1and i dont really know where to start02:04
ravenxbishop1sure it is02:04
Keybukthe people who can do it are already hard at work writing drivers02:05
Keybukand it's still hard even if you've got the full specs02:05
ravenxbishop1oh, so im out of luck?02:05
ravenxbishop1and i cant get any help02:05
ravenxbishop1and i should just give up?02:05
Keybukwhat's the device?02:05
ionIt’s easy to interpret tones incorrectly on IRC. I wasn’t being hostile.02:05
ravenxbishop1its a sound card02:05
ravenxbishop1a professional sound card02:05
Keybukand there's no extant driver for the sound card?02:06
Keybukyour best bet is to find someone in the ALSA project02:06
Keybukbribing them by sending them the sound card and letting them keep it often works02:06
ravenxbishop1i see no indication that there is any way to get it working in linux02:06
Keybukespecially if it's a good one02:06
ravenxbishop1well then i wouldnt have it :)02:07
Keybukif you gave us the model name/number/etc. I could actually look it up for you02:07
ravenxbishop1AArdvark q1002:07
Keybukravenxbishop1: they can't write drivers blind ;)02:07
ravenxbishop1of course not02:07
ravenxbishop1i didnt think they could02:07
Keybukthat's what ion meant02:08
Keybukunless there's something in it for them (e.g. getting a neat sound card) a developer is unlikely to be interested02:08
Keybuksince they're probably doing linux in their spare time02:09
ravenxbishop1but that cant be negotiated with you02:09
ravenxbishop1becuase you cant do the job02:09
ravenxbishop1i didnt ask anyone here, to do it02:09
ravenxbishop1i asked to be directed to someone who might be able to02:09
ravenxbishop1and instead02:09
Keybuksure, and we've told you the two groups ;)02:10
KeybukLinux Driver Project and the ALSA Project02:10
ravenxbishop1i saw one02:10
ravenxbishop1so they work without specs?02:10
ravenxbishop1because the first says "dont bother asking"02:10
Keybukthey *might* work without specs and with the card02:10
Keybuk(ALSA might)02:10
Keybukbut you're basically asking for a year or two's work02:10
ravenxbishop1well, maybe02:10
ravenxbishop1typically speaking, if i can get in touch with the right person02:11
ravenxbishop1i can make things happen02:11
Keybukanother good bet is to speak to the manufacturer and try and persuade them that it's in their interests to assist in writing a linux driver02:11
Keybuke.g. by giving the LDP the specs02:11
ravenxbishop1thats impos02:11
ravenxbishop1because it isnt something that can be done02:11
Keybukwe've got specs out of *NVIDIA*, anything is possible02:11
Keybukof course it is02:12
ravenxbishop1well, no, its not02:12
ravenxbishop1i can get specs from nvidia02:12
ravenxbishop1but i cant get them from aardvark02:12
Keybukif everyone returned their Q10 cards, because they didn't have linux drivers, and nobody bought them, then they'd pony up the specs pretty quick :p02:12
ionIf you can get in touch with the right person with Aardvark, you can make things happen. :-P02:12
ravenxbishop1there would be no where to return them to02:12
Keybukso the company who makes the device has gone bust?02:12
jmarsdenI think the Q10 is already a discontinued product... ?02:12
ravenxbishop1sort of went bust02:13
Keybukbeing realistic, I suspect your chances of getting a driver are basically zero02:13
Keybukespecially if it's not a production device anymore02:13
ravenxbishop1the company is closed.02:13
ravenxbishop1theres NO one to contact02:13
ravenxbishop1and no place to contact them02:13
ravenxbishop1they didnt fail they were forced out by competition02:14
ravenxbishop1through an unrelated legal issue with a board member02:14
Keybukthe competition probably had Linux drivers ;)02:14
ravenxbishop1no, you dont understand02:14
ravenxbishop1its alot of irrelivant things to explain02:14
ravenxbishop1before you would02:14
ravenxbishop1but something unrelated to the product, closed the company02:14
jmarsdenBottom line: They aren't likely to sell many more Q10 cards... so the work to create a Linux driver is out of all proportion to the benefit.  Buy a new card.02:15
ravenxbishop1there IS no new card02:15
ravenxbishop1it does things other things CANT do02:15
jmarsdenFrom a different company.02:15
ravenxbishop1if i spent $10,000 i could get something similer, using more space that still wasnt as good02:16
Keybukwould you pay someone $10,000 to write a driver for your card?02:17
ravenxbishop1hard to say02:17
Keybukthough, honestly, I suspect the rate would be more like $100,00002:18
jmarsdenOld ads for it do not seem to proclaim that it does things only $10K cards can do... makes me wonder what these things are and where they are documented...02:18
ravenxbishop1it was a $1k card02:19
ravenxbishop1it contains a word clock thats ALSO worth $1k02:19
ravenxbishop1but it is a clearer card than 10k cards02:19
ravenxbishop1first try to find a 10 in 10 out card with 8 preamps in BOTH 1/4 inch and xlr.02:20
ravenxbishop1once you do.02:20
ravenxbishop1find one that has midi too02:21
ravenxbishop1and a word clock generator02:21
ravenxbishop1not just having word clock02:21
ravenxbishop1but having a generator for it02:21
ravenxbishop1you still wont have as GOOD of a word clock generator because there ISNT a better one02:21
ravenxbishop1its EXTREMELY low latency02:21
ravenxbishop1i get 1ms02:22
Keybuksounds like it's missing a key feature though - a driver02:22
ravenxbishop1it has drivers.02:22
ravenxbishop1just not one for linux02:22
ravenxbishop1has osx and windows02:22
jmarsdenDoes it have one for FreeBSD?  or OpenSolaris?02:22
ravenxbishop1shake, osx and windows02:22
ravenxbishop1and only 32 bit windows02:23
ionOther professional audio interface manufacturers just don’t bother to use good enough components?02:23
ravenxbishop1the guy that invented it, is a nasa guy, who is just better than everyone else02:24
ravenxbishop1igor levin02:24
ravenxbishop1and so far i'm yet to get any contact with him02:24
ravenxbishop1tho i've had ... really important people try02:24
ravenxbishop1people just dont FIND him02:24
ravenxbishop1for instance... we've called "antalope audio" quite a bit, no one ever answers the phone the website stays up, but i cant imagine they do much business when they never pick up02:25
ravenxbishop1if i had one of the cards sooner i probably would have GOTTEN the source when they closed down02:27
ravenxbishop1i have a tendancy to do things like that02:27
ionI guess the fact i demand less from my gear makes my life easier. :-)02:28
ravenxbishop1it seems like walking me through a clean room reverse engineering process wouldnt take too much time or resources. but i'd have to know the right linux developer. it doesnt seem like THAT person hangs out in here02:28
ravenxbishop1thats probably true02:28
ravenxbishop1maudio has linux drivers but their cards are shit02:29
Keybukravenxbishop1: usually the approach is debug the windows driver02:29
Keybuksend commands, intercept the pci stream, then figure out what it's actually doing02:29
Keybukreplicating it in your own driver02:29
ravenxbishop1nod keybuk... but do you have experience?02:29
KeybukI've done it before, not for a sound card though02:30
Keybuk(and I'm not interested, btw :p)02:30
ravenxbishop1because you arent really the guy for the job.02:30
ravenxbishop1but someone is02:30
ravenxbishop1my guess from years of practical experiance is... that you probably havent REALLY done it, that you've done parts of the actual process and feel you know the theory. i could be wrong. but someone around has done it a few times and would probably help02:32
ravenxbishop1infact the guys that do it alot, do it for fun02:32
ravenxbishop1usually the people asking for money or saying how hard it is... arent really the guys that know how02:32
ravenxbishop1like the friend of a friend of mine that just cracked the ps3.02:33
ravenxbishop1he doesnt charge :)02:33
ravenxbishop1he's the one for the job, when you start bringing up anything to do with it, you cant even shut him up02:34
ravenxbishop1not that i expect anything for free.02:34
=== vorian is now known as obama
=== obama is now known as vorian
m4tare there any official ubuntu sparc tftp images?03:01
=== Richie is now known as WelshDragon
=== Guest16283 is now known as David-T
Liquid-Silencehi all10:30
Liquid-SilenceI am new to ubuntu but I want to contribute as a developer10:30
hyperairLiquid-Silence: hello. did you need something?10:39
Liquid-Silencejust looking @ contributing to ubuntu as a developer10:41
tomeuLiquid-Silence: have you seen this already? http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate10:41
Liquid-Silencegoing through that and some other things atm10:41
tomeuah, cool10:41
Liquid-Silencegot launchpad etc..10:41
Liquid-Silencebut more interested in what development tools I require etc...10:41
tomeuLiquid-Silence: that will depend on the package you want to hack on10:43
Liquid-SilenceWell in general I am not going to focus on one package10:43
Liquid-SilenceI want to contribute in many ways10:43
jussi01Liquid-Silence: Id say join #ubuntu-motu they have some help for people to get started10:45
tomeuLiquid-Silence: I would just start with one and learn from there10:45
ubottumotu is short for Masters of the Universe. The brave souls who maintain the packages in the Universe section of Ubuntu. See  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU10:45
Liquid-SilenceI am in that channel10:46
jussi01ahh, so you are. best to start on the basics, I can assure you that there is more than enough work to go around.10:46
Liquid-Silencejussi01: yip10:50
qensechrisccoulson: The version of Transmission I pushed last night does work. I'm now working on creating a patch for the latest version.11:41
chrisccoulsonqense - thanks. i will try and set aside some time later to look at it11:42
qensechrisccoulson: thank you11:42
chrisccoulsoni don't know why people keep changing the status and assignee on bug 45220811:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 452208 in devicekit-disks "devkit-disks-daemon crashed with SIGSEGV in dbus_g_method_return_error()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/45220811:44
chrisccoulsonit's getting ridiculous now11:44
chrisccoulsonwhen you look through the history of it, it's just people having to constantly revert unnecessary changes11:44
chrisccoulsonqense - which branch did you base your work on?11:49
qensechrisccoulson: lp:ubuntu/lucid/transmission11:49
qenseand that still uses 1.80~b111:49
chrisccoulsonah, yes11:49
qensewhereas the repos have got 1.8311:49
chrisccoulsonthe packaging branch we use is lp:~ubuntu-desktop/transmission/ubuntu11:49
chrisccoulsonthat one is always up-to-date11:50
chrisccoulsonit should be listed in debian/control11:50
qenseI'll merge with that branch11:50
chrisccoulson(if it's not, then i need to add that)11:50
qenseI'll have a look at it11:50
chrisccoulsoncool, thanks :)11:50
qensechrisccoulson: I can just merge that autoreconf patch into this branch, it just contains the directory. That's correct?11:51
qensebtw, yes, it contains the Vcs-bzr entry11:52
chrisccoulsonqense - thats right. our packaging branches only contain the debian/ folder11:52
chrisccoulsonbut once you have the branch, you can type "bzr bd-do", and get the full source directory11:52
qensethat's a nice feature I had never heard of11:53
chrisccoulsonit's actually a bit of a pain, but it does save on bandwidth ;)11:53
geserqense: the lp:ubuntu/transmission packaging branch might stay outdating for some time as the package importer failed over the .orig.tar.bz2 from Debian (and this might have stopped imports of Ubuntu uploads too)11:53
qensegeser: yeah, I saw that. A lot of imports failed recently.11:54
=== elpargo_ is now known as elpargo
czajkowskiat fosdem great turn out, interesting talks, one talk this morning, ubuntu and debian was soo full they stopped allowing folks in14:23
czajkowskitweet came in afterwards14:24
czajkowskiRT @rdicosmo: Debian and Ubuntu .... After the talk in H1309 at Fosdem, I think Debian really needs to push Ubuntu to behave as a proper dowstream!!!!!14:24
geserI can imagine that, I was at FOSDEM already twice (the last time last year) and the Debian dev room was always full14:26
hyperairdebian needs to push ubuntu to behave as a proper downstream? what's up with that?14:26
hyperairhave we not been a proper downstream?14:26
geserI guess the opinion depends on who you ask14:27
hyperairor are those rogue debian developers getting ahead of themselves claiming that ubuntu never contributes to debian again?14:27
czajkowskihyperair: it was one comment that just caught my eye on the #fosdem search on twitter14:28
hyperairczajkowski: i see.14:28
* hyperair sighs. i thought that whole war was behind us14:29
Tm_Tyou should just drag the original poster in middle of Ubuntu crew there (;14:29
hyperairi agree14:30
czajkowskiTm_T: there are more debian here14:30
czajkowski18 ubuntu folks went for dinner last night14:30
Tm_Tczajkowski: doesn't matter (:14:30
czajkowskihttp://fosdem.org/2010/schedule/events/dist_debian_ubuntu  was the speaker14:30
geserDebian is to inhomogeneous to come just to *one* opinion on anything14:30
Tm_Tczajkowski: no material available? ):14:33
czajkowskiTm_T: pardon?14:33
hyperairi'm curious to see the actual speech14:34
Tm_Tczajkowski: nothing, I cannot build reasonable sentences currently (:14:34
Tm_Thyperair: me too14:34
czajkowskiit was wedged, looked interesting but it was just too warm to stay14:35
* hyperair wants to see a video or hear a recording =\14:35
czajkowskiaye before commenting14:35
czajkowskii was just curious tbh, i'd have prefered to see a more larger presence from ubuntu tbh.14:36
geserI guess you talk to lucas also when he is here again14:36
czajkowskihis first slide was why he's qualified to give this talk, and said jokely it was being recorede so didnt want to offent anyone or something like that14:36
geserlucas did the recent archive rebuilds for us (and is also a MOTU)14:36
czajkowskii dont think there was anyting wrong wiht his talk, the perception on stream just got me wondering14:37
kitallisdoes Ubuntu plan to apply as an Org for GSoC'10?14:55
hyperairwhat would you work on under gsoc for ubuntu?14:56
kitallisthere's the whole Atayana thing, and notify-osd needs a lot of revamping.14:58
hyperairnotify-osd eh..15:01
hyperairi'd think that'd be under notify-osd instead of ubuntu.15:01
kitallisnotify-osd won't make much of an organisation...15:03
czajkowskihyperair: Debian's conclusion about Ubuntu at FOSDEM - http://short.ie/fh36jd15:32
* hyperair clicks15:33
hyperairczajkowski: that sounds fine to me.15:34
* Daviey expected a rick roll15:34
hyperairczajkowski: but how did that come to "ubuntu needs to be a good downstream"?15:34
hyperairDaviey: that was the first thing that crossed my mind as well =p15:34
czajkowskihyperair: that was whats someone took from the talk.. i really need the recordings15:34
czajkowskiDaviey: i'm not going near rickroll that song does my noggin in15:35
czajkowskihyperair: talk should be up next week once proceessed15:37
hyperairczajkowski: cool15:38
alkisgFor LTSP development, I want to disallow upstart daemons from running while maintaining the chroot. Does upstart support some kind of "flag" to disallow daemon starting, like policy-rc.d does for invoke-rc.d ?15:59
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
alkisgHmmm ok I found this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/upstart/+bug/43022416:24
ubottuUbuntu bug 430224 in upstart "misc: packages cannot be upgraded in a chroot" [Medium,Confirmed]16:24
alkisgI'll try to make a wrapper for initctl, that either runs initctl or runs true, depending on if we're on a live system or in the chroot...16:25
Liquid-Silenceneed to go sit and watch movies with the wife16:36
mdeslaurlamont: is there a specific reason why we don't ship /usr/lib/libuuid.la in uuid-dev anymore?16:42
ScottKmdeslaur: There's a general push in Debian not to ship .la files.  I think it should be the other way around, don't ship it unless there's a reason to.16:58
mdeslaurScottK: do you know of any webpages with info on transitioning packages to use the .pc file?17:00
ScottKmdeslaur: No.  Sorry.  I haven't had to deal with it yet, I've just read about the goal to remove them on debian-devel.17:00
mdeslaurScottK: ok, thanks17:00
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
lamontmdeslaur: because .la files are evil and should die18:03
mdeslaurlamont: so, if I get a FTBFS on another package because of it, what's the proper thing to do?18:04
=== micahg1 is now known as micahg
akgranerslangasek, are you around I have a quick question for ya?18:04
lamontfix the other package to not need the .la file - a large part of the push to get rid of the .la files was that they introduced amusing(tm) build-deps that were 4 and 5 deep and totally undeclared18:05
lamontgnome in hoary was _such_ fun18:05
=== dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk
=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates
slangasekakgraner: hi18:22
* ScottK thought maybe slangasek was still on his trip home from the sprint.18:28
slangasekit's a tiring journey18:28
=== ikonia_ is now known as the_tester
nick19691hello, how does ubuntu handle virtualbox? Any specific kernel settings or videodrivers? I see ubuntu doesn't use guest additions etc.19:19
persianick19691: If nobody gets back to you in a while, you might try #ubuntu-virt19:22
nick19691thanks persia19:24
gordnick19691, there are two versions of virtualbox. the open source edition thats included in ubuntu and the closed source edition that you can download from the virtualbox website, that has guest additions and such, but is closed source19:27
micahggord: guest additions is in ubuntu19:29
gordmicahg, i think there is a few that are kept out or something, i'm not 100% on the details19:29
micahggord: USB support19:29
nigel_nbgord: and shared folder support19:30
Liquid-Silencethe one you can install via apt has folder support19:33
Liquid-Silenceand 3d19:33
Liquid-Silenceand the guest additions19:33
Liquid-SilenceI am running it atm19:33
nick19691gord: I was mostly talking about ubuntu as a guest as it doesn't freeze as eg debian does19:37
lamontScottK: postfix 2.7.0~rc1-1~1 bits at deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/lamont/ppa/ubuntu lucid main22:32
lamontor will be once the publisher runs22:32
lamontScottK: feedback welcome22:33
ScottKlamont: THanks.22:33
ScottKlamont: Unfortunately I supposed to leave town for a week tomorrow, so tossing experimental Postfix packages on even my test server (which I do use for some actual stuff) is probably not prudent.22:34
ScottKI'll have a look when I get back (although it's no doubt going to be OBE by then)22:34
lamontit's running on my primary mail server, but then, I'm _in_ town this week22:35
azeem00:36  * bremner learns from an Ubuntu user that he is the maintainer of syncevolution in Ubuntu.23:54
azeemand indeed, he's mentioned as "Maintainer" if you input syncevolution in launchpad.net/ubuntu's search box and click the result23:54

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