[00:28] <Takyoji> I'm ecstatic that the Ubuntu Marketing mailing list is actually active and collaboratively discussing
[00:29] <Takyoji> Hah; if we had 2 more people, we'd have more people than those on the Ubuntu Marketing IRC channel
[00:31] <Takyoji> There should be more commoners to the channel
[00:31] <Takyoji> (of the marketing channel)
[00:32] <Takyoji> It seems that people get enthusiastic, and start something, and work hard, while nobody else is really responsive or caring about the work, then the enthusiastic individual gives up and doesn't put forth any more effort.
[00:32] <Takyoji> i.e. Spread Ubuntu
[00:35] <Takyoji> The person that started the Spread Ubuntu website tried to help create an active community for developing marketing materials, and started initiatives and goals, and nobody really was active, and the Canonical folk in charge of the ubuntu-marketing.org (which points to nothing) didn't care to ever point the domain to the Spread Ubuntu website. Thus due to the lack of activity, the person that started Spread Ubuntu has pretty m
[00:35] <Takyoji> uch given up working on it
[00:37] <Takyoji> We should try getting members of the Minnesota Ubuntu LoCo also active in the Ubuntu Marketing group; it just needs a little love...
[00:39] <Takyoji> or other dying groups
[00:52]  * Takyoji continues preaching a sermon that nobody cares about. :P
[00:57] <mr_steve> Hmm.. I like what you're saying; marketing is just one of those things that it's hard to get people excited about
[00:57] <Takyoji> I'd love to work on marketing materials for example; but if I ever ask for critique or ideas, I'll never get an answer
[00:57] <Takyoji> Everytime
[00:58] <Takyoji> (at least on the IRC channel of Ubuntu marketing)
[00:58] <Takyoji> Anyone artistic, statistical, or literate can contribute, or even write materials on how to contribute
[00:59] <mr_steve> Yeah, it's always tricky getting responses on anything in a timely fashion.
[01:00] <mr_steve> I treat the #ubuntu-motu channel almost like email now, I ask a question, and check my hilights window every few hours for a reply
[01:01] <Takyoji> As with anything, I would love to actively collaborate with others in realtime, but it typically seems everyone just prefers doing their own little thing quietly
[01:02] <mr_steve> that does seem to be the case, generally
[01:03] <Takyoji> I think more could be done, and more effectively, if people would discuss and work together more
[01:04] <Takyoji> more could be accomplished*
[02:33] <mr_steve> hmm, the Awseome window manager seems kind of... awesome
[02:33] <Takyoji> heh
[02:34] <Takyoji> Looks interesting
[02:34] <mr_steve> I love the picture on their website of the workstation with like 7 displays
[02:34] <mr_steve> I want it
[02:34] <Takyoji> heheheh
[02:35] <Takyoji> I'd love it too. :P
[02:35] <Takyoji> I wish I could just have monitors for everything
[02:35] <mr_steve> Me too
[02:35] <mr_steve> Hey, you ever see the movie Grandma's Boy?
[02:35] <Takyoji> One for some IRC channels, another for instant messaging, another for email, another from web browsing, etc
[02:35] <Takyoji> Haven't seen it
[02:35] <mr_steve> Ah
[02:36] <mr_steve> There's a programmer who writes code laying back in a reclined seat with a bunch of huge screens over his head
[02:36] <Takyoji> heh ahh
[02:37] <Takyoji> http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/8/22/633549610887460903-internetgetreadyforliftoff.jpg
[02:38] <h00k> moar like Internet ready for a nobel peace prize.
[02:39] <Takyoji> and then have a little IDS on my servers, and have a client on my desktop that would do movie-like warnings whenever there is an attempted brute-force attack or something. :P
[02:40] <Obsidian1723> better to have an IPS actually as primary, IDS as merely logging.
[02:41] <Takyoji> I had a timer running on my desktop (the GNOME panel applet), and noticed when the pizza's ready. And my friend thought I had my oven rigged to detect when the pizza was done or something. xP
[02:41] <Takyoji> Well yea
[02:41] <Takyoji> I'd also love to have something to display activity and usage on any server I assist with in realtime
[02:42] <Takyoji> Such as MySQL requests, CPU usage, RAM, etc
[02:42] <Takyoji> HTTP requests, connected IPs, etc
[02:42] <Takyoji> I would absolutely love such a solution
[02:44] <Takyoji> I love this as well: http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/items/free_games/Images/quake_24_screens.jpg
[02:44] <mr_steve> I like to have a terminal up showing my logs, preferably colorized
[02:44] <Takyoji> of course that might be a little excessive though. :P
[02:44] <mr_steve> It's usually just information overload, but if I notice that something's acting screwy I can just glance over and see if something's breaking
[02:46] <mr_steve> hm, I think awesome is going to be my window manager from here on out, but it sure has a learning curve
[02:46] <Takyoji> I know I could probably do such with SSH; but I'm a freak that I wouldn't want to have a direct connection to the root account or anything of the server; I'd like something that would just tell me statistics, and that if it were ever "broken into" that all a person could do is get statistics rather than run anything on the system
[02:46] <Takyoji> (if that makes sense)
[02:47] <Takyoji> Something that would be completely rid of system privileges, but able to get statistics/information.
[02:47] <mr_steve> Takyoji, for the SSH issue, you could just have all your machines set up for remote syslogging to one box
[02:47] <Takyoji> A possibility
[02:48] <Takyoji> Or I'll just write my own PHP page and client
[02:48] <mr_steve> And then you'd really just need some kind of pattern-matching script to count certain patterns occuring the logs. I'm sure something halfway decent already exists
[02:48] <mr_steve> I use zabbix for a 1000-yard overview of my network
[02:48] <Takyoji> I just can't sleep at night with the thought of something not being persistent. Just re-requesting for new information on an interval
[02:49] <Takyoji> Well, I guess it could work on a server-push basis, although it's hard to set the up server-side for the script to wait for input and maintain a persistent connection
[02:50] <Takyoji> I'm a person that can't sleep at night when something is working inefficiently
[02:50] <Takyoji> (just a hyperbole though)
[02:52] <Takyoji> Polling over HTTP is one of the things that I consider inefficient.
[02:53] <Takyoji> i.e. a web-based IRC client that reloads every second to see if there's any new IRC messages
[02:55] <Obsidian1723> Why not just set all machines to use /var on one PC, make that the logging server, get stats from there?
[02:55] <Takyoji> otherwise I'm talking about separate web servers.
[02:57] <mr_steve> uh-oh. I think something bad has happened on my machine
[02:57] <Takyoji> I don't run a datacenter/server farm at all
[02:57]  * Takyoji stops playing with mr_steve's SVGA cable
[02:57] <mr_steve> heheh
[02:57] <mr_steve> d????????? ? ?     ?         ?                ? awesome
[02:58] <mr_steve> That's what ls -l tells me in my ~/.config dir
[02:58] <Takyoji> heh
[02:58] <mr_steve> I don't think that's a happy thing
[02:58] <Takyoji> Question marks, or non-UTF characters?
[02:58] <mr_steve> question marks
[02:58] <Takyoji> ahh
[02:59] <mr_steve> I made it with mkdir, now I can't cd into it, can't rm it
[02:59] <Obsidian1723> sudo nautiluscan you delete it via that?
[02:59] <Obsidian1723> sudo nautilus can you delete it via that?
[02:59] <Takyoji> (Did you know you can make certain folders on Windows in command line that you can't normally create or delete?)
[03:00] <Obsidian1723> attrib
[03:00] <Obsidian1723> yeah
[03:00] <Obsidian1723> You cna do that in Linux too.
[03:00] <mr_steve> can't rm it as root either, no error, it just doesn't go away
[03:00] <Takyoji> There's certain reserved names in Linux as well?
[03:00] <Obsidian1723> rm -rf name*
[03:01] <mr_steve> no dice
[03:01] <Obsidian1723> If it's Fluffy Bunny as the dir or file, cd to where it is, rm -rf fluff*
[03:01] <Obsidian1723> capital F
[03:01] <Obsidian1723> chmod 777 it, chown as root then rm -rf name*
[03:02] <mr_steve> can't chmod it, no such file or directory
[03:02] <Obsidian1723> what is the name of it?
[03:02] <mr_steve> awesome
[03:02] <Obsidian1723> no non-standard characters?
[03:03] <mr_steve> nope, all I did was mkdir /home/steve/.config/awesome
[03:03] <Obsidian1723> so it's a hidden director
[03:03] <Obsidian1723> can you cd to it as root ?
[03:03] <mr_steve> hmm, I haven't tried that yet. standby...
[03:03] <Obsidian1723> sudo cd /home/steve/.config/
[03:04] <Obsidian1723> If sudo doesn't work, then su root and do cd to it.
[03:04] <mr_steve> nope, can't cd into it from a root shell, no such file or directory
[03:04] <mr_steve> I think a fsck is in my near to immediate future
[03:04] <Obsidian1723> I had a folder that wouldnt delete, so I su'd to root, then sudo cd'd to the folder.
[03:04] <Obsidian1723> what distro ya using?
[03:05] <mr_steve> Ubuntu, Lucid. I believe I've found another bug.
[03:05] <Obsidian1723> oh fuck me...
[03:05] <Obsidian1723> Alpha shit. no wonder
[03:05] <Obsidian1723> I never upgrade until LTS .1
[03:06] <mr_steve> Yep. This is why I have backups. Hopefully a fsck will take care of it though.
[03:06] <Obsidian1723> Well, remastersys is good for imaging.
[03:06] <mr_steve> And then I have a bug report to file. FS bugs = A Bad Thing
[03:07] <Obsidian1723> Yeah, avoid the .10 releasese like 8.10 and 9.10 and while 9.04 is ok, best to stick to LTS, at least on production machines. If this is just a testing box, its a different story.
[03:07] <Obsidian1723> I'm on 8.04.4LTS and I refuse to upgrade until 10.04.1LTS
[03:07] <Obsidian1723> much more stable that way...
[03:10] <mr_steve> okay, so I ran ls again, and now it's a proper directory entry. Really weird.
[03:18] <Takyoji> Then it's just how it was read, rather than how it was saved.
[04:02] <Takyoji> If only I could find a font that's a terminal-like font.
[04:02] <Takyoji> Courier New doesn't fit my desires
[04:03] <Takyoji> I wouldn't mind if it even looked like it was printed by a dot-matrix printer
[04:20] <Takyoji> Well I guess I just noticed a general issue with Ubuntu
[04:20] <Takyoji> The large font theme is too large
[04:20] <Takyoji> and nearly impossible to click the System menu to get to the preferences to change it back easily
[04:20] <Takyoji> my mother just ran into that issue
[04:22] <Takyoji> anyone have alternate suggestions?
[04:22] <Takyoji> (I was however able to revert it)
[04:30] <Takyoji> Gah, too bad that I can't bolden specific words in a text block in The GIMP..
[06:05] <tonyyarusso> sure you can - you just highlight them
[14:14] <mr_steve> hmm. My fileserver made some omninous clicking noises, and seems to have done an emergency remount-ro on root
[14:16] <mr_steve> not my preferred way to start the day
[15:24] <mr_steve> grr
[17:20] <Takyoji> Snow day.
[17:21] <mr_steve> not for me :(
[17:21] <Takyoji> Aww
[17:26] <mr_steve> the math class right before mine is cancelled, but mine isn't
[17:26] <Takyoji> ahh
[17:27] <mr_steve> too bad, since it seems I need to rebuild my file/web server today
[17:28] <mr_steve> the hard drive holding the root LV decided to self-destruct this morning
[17:28] <Takyoji> Oh fun
[17:30] <Takyoji> I'm working on a web design right now
[17:39] <Takyoji> I've been constantly tweaking it
[17:39] <Takyoji> Trying to reach perfection
[17:40] <mr_steve> that's something I've never been very good at. I stoped writing web pages before the rise of CSS
[18:05] <Takyoji> I should probably be taking notes from the Ubuntu Marketing mailing list; various individuals are pointing out good details in terms of promotion/advertisement
[18:11] <h00k> halp, I'm debating upgrading my netbook to Lucid
[18:45] <exigraff> h00k: may want to keep one stable machine around
[18:45] <exigraff> h00k: just sayin
[18:45] <h00k> I know, I know...
[18:45] <h00k> but...
[18:55] <Takyoji> I'd rather dual-boot Lucid rather than just Lucid installed alone
[19:03] <h00k> I had it dual-booting but got rid of lucid on the other partition on my laptop and upgraded karmic to lucid
[19:03] <h00k> and now I want to try it on my netbook
[19:26] <Takyoji> Experienced any issues/bugs yet with Lucid?
[19:30] <h00k> I had one related to cron
[19:31] <h00k> er, cron died and I reported it
[19:32] <Takyoji> ahh
[19:33] <h00k> I had GDM act silly and freeze up, too
[19:38] <Takyoji> Ever time I boot into Lucid, GDM restarts after a couple seconds, then I try again, then I can login
[19:39] <Takyoji> Every*
[19:40] <Takyoji> And before it crashes/reopens, it has minor graphical issues on the top, with a few pixels flickering
[19:46] <Takyoji> Anyone planning an installfest?
[19:46] <Takyoji> You know you all want to..
[19:53] <h00k> We might have one in Wisconsin, yeah.
[19:53] <Takyoji> Woo
[21:11] <Takyoji> Just for the sheer curiosity; has anyone packaged RPMs at all?
[21:31] <rlaager> Takyoji: I've done plenty.
[21:39] <Takyoji> Anything substantially different of it from creating deb packages?
[21:45] <Takyoji> So. How terrible is my work? http://mnopensource.org :P
[21:45] <Takyoji> Just a little thing I'm working on
[21:59] <Takyoji> currently just a static page
[22:03] <mr_steve> Takyoji, i like it :)
[22:03] <mr_steve> Simple, clean, and the GPL in the background of the header is a nice touch
[22:03] <Takyoji> I was trying to think what would be most emblematic of FOSS, thus the GPL came to mind
[22:04] <Takyoji> I'm making it into a Wordpress theme right now
[22:10] <rlaager> Takyoji: It's not vastly different from debs. The biggest thing about an RPM is that it's all in one file. You denote sections of it instead of having separate files. Also, it's just generally not as nice as making debs (with debhelper at least).
[22:10] <mr_steve> Themeing wordpress is something I gotta look into. First I gotta rebuild my webserver and recover from backups tho...
[22:10]  * mr_steve grumbles
[23:07] <Takyoji> Woo!
[23:07] <Takyoji> Got my Linux Journal magazine
[23:14]  * Obsidian1723 just had a guy ask ne in email to help him with an CMS install on a Linux box (via a web no less), but like I told him, I don't work for free either. Some people... I tell ya.
[23:16] <tonyyarusso> silly Obsidian1723, you should have replied with a quote
[23:17] <Obsidian1723> heh
[23:18] <Obsidian1723> He needed to do it so HE could get paide. What am I? Chopped liver? I have certs, including a Linux one, but I also have 32+ years experience.
[23:18] <Obsidian1723> yeah, I should have told him @200/hr or RTFM.
[23:20] <Takyoji> Oh, I see
[23:24] <Takyoji> I would die to have a rack of servers; I would worship it every night. xP
[23:25] <Takyoji_> Laptop froze
[23:25] <Takyoji_> The only thing responsive was the cursor
[23:28] <Takyoji_> Was my last geeky message received?
[23:32] <Obsidian1723> heh I have some old Cisco stuff....
[23:32] <Obsidian1723> 2507 router and 1923 24-port Layer 2 switch./
[23:33] <Takyoji_> I just have standard desktops to work with. I have nothing that's considerably enterprise-level equipment
[23:34] <kermit> if the cursor was responsive, that was just x-windows or your window manager freezing
[23:34] <kermit> Takyoji_:
[23:35] <Takyoji_> Next time it occurs I'll attempt Ctrl+Alt+Backspace then
[23:35] <kermit> i heard somewhere that was disabled in ubuntu
[23:35] <kermit> but i havent tested
[23:35] <Takyoji_> Although that key combination has been changed
[23:35] <Takyoji_> I haven't had any success with the magic SysRq key yet at all
[23:36] <kermit> that doesnt work in X
[23:36] <kermit> really the only way to deal with X is to kill it with ssh from another machine
[23:37] <Obsidian1723> Tak, I'm looking to upgrade so this still is only 10MBPS, I need 100MBPS... if I can replace it, you can have the other stuff.
[23:39] <Takyoji_> Ooo
[23:44] <Obsidian1723> I want a Cisco Cataylst 2900
[23:47]  * tonyyarusso guesses you mean Mbps
[23:48] <Obsidian1723> Mo
[23:48] <Obsidian1723> Mb = Megabytes MB = Megabits
[23:49] <tonyyarusso> Other way around Obsidian1723
[23:49] <kermit> what tonyyarusso said
[23:50] <Obsidian1723> brain fried, yeah.. I mean Mb
[23:50] <Obsidian1723> Is it Monday?
[23:52] <Takyoji_> Didn't you get the memo? It's Friday.
[23:52] <Obsidian1723> nooooooooooooooooo
[23:52] <Takyoji_> (actually not, obviously)
[23:52] <Obsidian1723> parrrrrrrrrrrrrr tay!!
[23:52] <Obsidian1723> yah I know.
[23:53]  * Takyoji_ plots world domination