[00:14] <robert_ancell> RAOF, what is the branch name?
[00:14] <RAOF> Sorry, I'm still working on it.
[00:14] <RAOF> It's reminding me why I like dh7 so much :/
[00:15] <RAOF> I think I've got it *this* time!
[00:15] <robert_ancell> RAOF, I know the feeling :)
[00:16] <RAOF> I think I may have won, this time...
[00:17] <RAOF> I WIN!
[00:17] <RAOF> :)
[00:19] <RAOF> ...and now bzr is being weird.
[00:22] <RAOF> robert_ancell: lp:~raof/launchpad-integration/fix-cli-library-install contains your fix.  Finally!
[00:22] <robert_ancell> RAOF, thanks! cloning...
[00:28] <RAOF> It's actually still a little bit broken - dh_clideps should be run after liblaunchpad-integration1 has had its shlibs made - but there's an explicit dependency in debian/control on liblaunchpad-integration1 so it's not too bad.
[00:30] <robert_ancell> hmm lp is saying not a branch to me
[00:31] <RAOF> bzr branch lp:~raof/launchpad-integration/fix-cli-library-install has just worked for me.
[00:32] <RAOF> If all else fails, here's the patch http://pastebin.com/f4d33e2a2
[00:33] <robert_ancell> hmm https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~raof: not pushed to yet
[00:35] <RAOF> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~raof/launchpad-integration/fix-cli-library-install says “updating branch” for me.
[00:36] <robert_ancell> it was faster to use the pastebin and manually copy the changes :)
[00:37] <RAOF> :(
[00:37] <RAOF> Poor bzr
[00:38] <robert_ancell> building...
[00:47] <robert_ancell> RAOF, yay! It works! You're definitely owed a beer or two for that :)
[00:51] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you do an upload please - check out lp:launchpad-integration, do a make distcheck, untar the tarball somewhere and do the debuild from that
[01:33] <kklimonda> how does the future of all ubuntu made applets for gnome-panel looks like wrt gnome-shell?
[01:36] <RAOF> Currently it doesn't, as gnome-shell doesn't support applets.  I know there's been general dissatisfaction with this state of affairs though, so it probably just requires someone to write something reasonable.
[01:38] <RAOF> I'm rather liking UNE, actually.  It's has enough of the gnome-shell enhancements to be fun.
[01:39] <kklimonda> haven't really used it
[01:39] <kklimonda> it looks weird on screenshots :)
[01:41] <RAOF> It is slightly strange, but it's nicely compact for my 12" thinkpad.
[01:43] <Nafai> Yeah,  UNE is great for the purpose.  My wife uses it on her AspireOne
[06:42] <aaron_> Ive been using ubuntu as a desktop for a while but not in an enterprise envirment. in windows we have domains that each workstation is a member of how does that kind of thing work in a linux only envirment is there such a thing as a linux domain?
[06:49] <pitti> Good morning
[07:07] <bryceh> morning pitti
[07:11] <pitti> hey bryceh, how are you?
[07:14] <bryceh> pitti, ok, been a busy day
[07:15] <bryceh> pitti, I think in the future when people hand me equipment at UDS or sprints, I'm going to ask that they write a blueprint as well
[07:16] <bryceh> since accepting the hardware implies a time commitment to work on it, but that needs balanced with other priorities, and it's hard to do when it's not in the blueprint system
[07:35] <baptistemm> hello
[08:29] <didrocks> good morning
[08:32] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[08:33] <didrocks> hey pitti
[08:36]  * bryceh waves
[08:36] <didrocks> have a good night bryceh!
[08:37] <bryceh> didrocks, oh I was waving good morning not good night!  :-)
[08:38] <bryceh> (although, I probably should get to bed... got the meeting in the morning... but still got tasks to do...)
[08:39] <didrocks> bryceh: I was infering that looking at the hour :)
[08:48] <didrocks> anyone else experience random issue in gtk open file dialog?
[08:52] <didrocks> pitti: did you refresh netbook-meta?
[08:53] <pitti> didrocks: argh, no, sorry
[08:53] <pitti> doing now
[08:53] <didrocks> pitti: thx :) no pb, will be for next round
[08:59] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:59] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
[09:00] <pitti> I'm great, thanks!
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> are you fully recovered from your travels now?
[09:00] <didrocks> hi chrisccoulson :)
[09:00] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks, how are you too?
[09:00] <pitti> still a bit dizzy, but I'm mostly good indeed
[09:01] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: recovering little by little, thanks! and you?
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm good thanks. i had quite an early night last night ::)
[09:15] <didrocks> netbook-launcher is not starting on my fresh UNE install :/
[09:24] <pitti> didrocks: hm, I installed yesterday's image, and it worked
[09:25] <didrocks> hum, so something went wrong at some point. I still have gnome-panel, the .desktop file…
[09:25] <didrocks> let's try yesterday's image first
[09:56] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:56] <seb128> hello chrisccoulson
[09:57] <chrisccoulson> how are you today?
[09:59] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[10:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson: good thanks! I had another good night and I feel not tired today ;-)
[10:01] <seb128> pitti, guten tag!
[10:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: how are you?
[10:01] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm good thanks. i had an early-ish night last night too
[10:03] <vuntz> chrisccoulson: (autorestart for panel) please commit then, if it's okay
[10:03] <chrisccoulson> vuntz - yeah, will do
[10:03] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[10:18] <didrocks> salut seb128
[10:18] <seb128> lut didrocks
[10:18] <didrocks> vuntz: hey! Did you enjoy FOSDEM?
[10:18] <seb128> didrocks, ca va ?
[10:19] <didrocks> seb128: ça va, plus dormi cette nuit et en train de me battre avec l'agence d'administration de biens, mais ça :)
[10:19] <didrocks> seb128: et toi?
[10:20] <seb128> didrocks, l'agence d'administration de biens?
[10:20] <vuntz> didrocks: vi vi
[10:21] <seb128> didrocks, nickel de mon côté ;-)
[10:21] <didrocks> seb128: yep, infiltration d'eau, pb non réglé depuis 2 mois après multiples relances. Donc j'ai dit que j'ai fait les démarches pour payer le loyer sur un compte bloqué et là, ils se bougent d'un coup
[10:21] <seb128> ok
[10:22] <didrocks> vuntz: any change to have a look/idea on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=608419? seb128 told me that we have now just one wallpaper on all screen, so maybe, we just need to cache one?
[10:24] <vuntz> didrocks: no idea :-) I need to look at it again, but probably not today
[10:24] <didrocks> vuntz: no pb, I can harass you as well later this week, you know :p
[10:37] <pitti> seb128: if you have a minute, would you mind looking at python-gudev in source NEW? (tiny package)
[10:38] <asac> didrocks: so you are going for abiword/gnumeric now in une?
[10:38] <asac> what about the web integration?
[10:39] <asac> (hi)
[10:39] <seb128> pitti, ok, doing that
[10:39] <pitti> seb128: hang on
[10:39] <seb128> pitti, want to review xchat-indicator in exchange? ;-)
[10:40] <pitti> seb128: upstream just sent me a message to switch to LGPL; I'll reupload
[10:40] <pitti> seb128: yes, will do
[10:40] <seb128> pitti, wroten by kenvandine to use the message indicator
[10:40] <didrocks> asac: hey, yes, rick quickly pinged me about that yesterday. We didn't have the time to discuss a lot about it (he was felling unwell). I guess we should discuss those plans somewhere to have a common decision
[10:40] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[10:40] <seb128> pitti, let me know when it's reuploaded
[10:40] <pitti> (rejected p-gudev)
[10:40] <asac> didrocks: right. lets do a call maybe?
[10:40] <asac> tomorrow?
[10:41] <didrocks> asac: sure, no pb for me :)
[10:41] <asac> good once rick is on i will ask him for a timeslot
[10:41] <asac> and send an invite
[10:41] <didrocks> perfect, thanks asac
[10:46] <pitti> seb128: reuploaded; looking at x-i now
[10:50] <pitti> seb128: for context, the pitivi guys asked me to package it, so that they can de-hal-ify it
[10:51] <seb128> pitti, ok, looking to that now, dunno if you have been following discussions yesterday between rick and some other people on the channel about pitivi and lucid
[10:51] <pitti> I didn't, no
[10:51] <seb128> ok
[10:51] <pitti> but even if we drop it, it helps to drop hal, so it's not in vain :)
[10:51] <seb128> short summary, current pitivi is not ready to be shipped quality wise, next version should be better but schedule is tight for them
[10:52] <seb128> rick feels we put pressure on them by saying we would ship by default but didn't help them much toward the goal
[10:52] <seb128> so they were discussing how the ubuntu community could help them there, maybe doing an hackfest or something
[10:59] <seb128> pitti, python-gudev newed
[11:00] <pitti> seb128: merci!
[11:01] <seb128> pitti, danke for x-i ;-)
[11:04] <seb128> mvo, hey
[11:04] <seb128> mvo, there is a vte update waiting for sponsoring, could you have a look when you a free slot?
[11:04] <mvo> seb128: sure
[11:05] <seb128> mvo, thanks
[11:05] <mvo> seb128: after lunch :)
[11:05] <seb128> yeah, no hurry
[11:05] <seb128> there is a g-t update going with it if you want to do that too btw ;-)
[11:05] <seb128> mvo, enjoy lunch!
[11:08] <mvo> thanks
[11:22] <chrisccoulson> seb128 / mvo - i was going to sponsor the gnome-terminal upload, before i realised i couldn't upload vte
[11:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson: right, I remember you telling that, that's why I pinged mvo about vte there :-)
[11:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson: any luck with the g-s-d and g-c-c updates?
[11:23] <seb128> chrisccoulson: do you want we to do the gnome-screensaver update?
[11:23] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - not yet, i ran out of time last night
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> gnome-screensaver update?
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> theres another one?
[11:24] <seb128> 2.29.90
[11:24] <seb128> there is only one change
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> heh, i only just uploaded gnome-screensaver ;)
[11:24] <seb128> a cve fix
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> yeah, feel free to do that if you get a change. if not, i can do that quite quickly when i finish work
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> s/change/chance
[11:28] <seb128> ok
[11:28] <seb128> I will see
[11:28] <seb128> I was just not sure how busy you are, since you already have g-s-d and g-c-c to update
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> i'll be glad when i don't have to cram all this work in to an evening ;)
[11:31] <seb128> hehe
[11:31] <seb128> when will that be btw? ;-)
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> it will be the first week of march
[11:44] <pitti> ooh!
[12:00] <seb128> chrisccoulson: oh, only a few weeks until there ;-)
[12:00] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i can't wait :)
[12:04] <didrocks> that will be really cool to don't have to deal with compiz annymore :)
[12:07] <seb128> didrocks, you still have for a few weeks!
[12:07]  * didrocks hides
[12:19] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[12:19] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks for the quick empathy crash fix ;-)
[12:20] <didrocks> kenvandine: was it related to the crash I showed you?
[12:20]  * didrocks didn't have the time to upgrade today
[12:20] <seb128> the message indicator is busted still there
[12:20] <seb128> the empathy icon is displayed in the notification area
[12:21] <chrisccoulson> i was just going to bring that up
[12:21] <seb128> and the message service crashes when clicking on it
[12:21] <chrisccoulson> indicator-message-service crashes every time i open evolution now
[12:21] <didrocks> seb128: ok, so if we have still this crash, we can't accept new invitation, annoying :)
[12:22] <seb128> they should be somewhere in the empathy ui no?
[12:24] <didrocks> seb128: I didn't pushed to much time on that, but didn't see any other way
[12:36] <seb128> didrocks, if you want to do some GNOME updates this afternoon let me know
[12:37] <didrocks> seb128: sure, in 5 minutes, just finishing to write a little wrapper first
[12:37] <seb128> didrocks, did you have lunch already?
[12:37] <didrocks> seb128: just a short desert, but it's all right, with all we eat in Portland :)
[12:38] <seb128> lol
[12:38] <seb128> take a lunch break first
[12:38] <seb128> there is no hurry for updates ;-)
[12:38] <seb128> even if you don't use it for eating, take some fresh air or something
[12:38] <didrocks> ok, I'll walk a little under the fresh snow :)
[12:38] <seb128> or get a cool drink ;-)
[12:39] <didrocks> bbl
[12:39] <seb128> ;-)
[12:39] <seb128> see you in a bit!
[12:39] <didrocks> see you ;)
[12:58] <didrocks> JamieBennett: hey, did you agree with rick first before pushing on my side two WI?
[12:59] <JamieBennett> asac asked me to push them to you with the understanding that you would probably reassign them if you weren't doing them yourself
[13:00] <asac> didrocks: which ones?
[13:00] <asac> (i remember about two)
[13:00] <JamieBennett> The 2d/3d discovery
[13:00] <didrocks> JamieBennett: not sure I'll have the time this week, but I can do a first try next week. I'm more annoyed about the "choose on install"
[13:00] <asac> right
[13:00] <asac> i was told you will do that
[13:00] <asac> if thats not the case we can take that back
[13:00] <asac> choose on install?
[13:00] <asac> imo all should be automatic
[13:00] <didrocks> asac: I was just not aware, hence my surprised :)
[13:01] <asac> if you were not aware
[13:01] <didrocks> asac: [didrocks] Evaluated best mechanism to support 2d/3d install time selection: TODO
[13:01] <asac> then its wrong
[13:01] <asac> push that back
[13:01] <asac> i was told desktop team plans to do that ... but since you were not aware, its wrong intelligence
[13:01] <didrocks> asac: I can maybe do it, that's not the problem, just speak with me before :)
[13:01] <JamieBennett> didrocks: we just need a discovery method and worst case install both but change the session depending on hardware
[13:01] <asac> as i said, if you were not working on that then push that back to us
[13:01] <didrocks> asac: I think the confusion came from one of my WI: Medium Detect 3D acceleration not available and end with a dialog telling you so
[13:02] <asac> ok
[13:02] <asac> then push them buack
[13:02] <didrocks> asac: ok
[13:02] <JamieBennett> :)
[13:02] <asac> if desktop team didnt plan to ship 2d launcher
[13:02] <didrocks> that can maybe be revisited (having the 2D launcher on UNE installation can be good)
[13:02] <didrocks> just need to discuss it first :)
[13:03] <JamieBennett> OK, we can do that tomorrow on the call?
[13:03] <didrocks> asac, JamieBennett: I'll raise first that on our meeting later today
[13:03] <JamieBennett> OK
[13:03] <didrocks> and yes, we can take the final decision on the call tomorrow :)
[13:04] <asac> lets talk on that during call
[13:04] <asac> no need to do that during meeting imo ...
[13:05] <asac> it was all based on false intelligence assuming you planned to do that ;)
[13:05] <didrocks> ok :)
[13:29] <didrocks> where is the desktopteam meeting template? seems the one bryceh took doesn't have my name. Should I infer that I've the right to be a slacker? ;)
[13:30] <chrisccoulson> lol ;)
[13:31] <seb128> didrocks, no, you should assume that you have the right to work hard while other take an hour to chat on IRC ;-)
[13:31] <didrocks> seb128: heh
[13:31] <seb128> start by fixing compiz!
[13:31] <didrocks> *urgh*
[13:31] <didrocks> :)
[13:31] <seb128> ;-)
[13:32] <didrocks> btw, I can tackle some updates now
[13:32] <chrisccoulson> didrocks is maintaining compiz now?
[13:32] <seb128> chrisccoulson: the newest team member get it
[13:32] <seb128> ...
[13:32] <seb128> ;-)
[13:32] <chrisccoulson> lol
[13:32] <chrisccoulson> oh dear ;)
[13:32]  * didrocks is eager to have chrisccoulson on the team :)
[13:33] <chrisccoulson> heh
[13:33] <seb128> didrocks, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/MeetingTemplate
[13:33] <seb128> didrocks, I guess
[13:33] <didrocks> seb128: thanks. I'm fixing it
[13:34] <seb128> didrocks, updates, good
[13:34] <seb128> didrocks, brasero, seahorse-plugins, deskbar-applet
[13:34] <seb128> vinagre
[13:35] <seb128> gnome-doc-utils
[13:35] <didrocks> picking up brasero and seahorse-plugins first
[13:35] <seb128> gnome-menus
[13:35] <seb128> those are free to do
[13:35] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[13:35] <pitti> didrocks: DesktopTeam/MeetingTemplate
[13:36] <pitti> didrocks: thanks for fixing :)
[13:36] <didrocks> seb128: pitti: y/w :)
[13:37]  * didrocks hopes that GNOME updates will enable a good endorsement for core dev application from seb128 :)
[13:37] <seb128> oh right, I've that to do too ;-)
[13:37] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - you're applying for core-dev now?
[13:37] <didrocks> I try to formulate it as a smarter way than a ping :)
[13:37] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: right
[13:38] <chrisccoulson> excellent :)
[13:38] <didrocks> thanks :)
[13:53] <Nafai> Good morning, reporting for duty :)
[13:53] <pitti> hey Nafai, how are you?
[13:53] <chrisccoulson> hey Nafai
[13:53] <Nafai> Doing pretty well, and you pitti?
[13:54] <pitti> I'm good, thanks!
[13:56] <seb128> hey Nafai
[14:00] <didrocks> hi Nafai
[14:01] <didrocks> seb128: taking vinagre and gnome-menus
[14:01] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[14:09] <seb128> brb
[14:12] <kenvandine> Nafai, i posted a comment and patch  back to you
[14:12] <kenvandine> Nafai, should be more upstream friendly
[14:12] <kenvandine> Nafai, great work though!
[14:12] <Nafai> kenvandine: cool, will take a look
[14:12] <Nafai> Thanks!
[14:12]  * kenvandine goes back to #ayatana :)
[14:18] <seb128> didrocks, I'm doing the gnome-desktop update
[14:19] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I'm sidetrack for half an hour I hope, I'll reclaim updates then
[14:19] <seb128> ok
[14:20] <chrisccoulson> there will be no updates left for me to do at this rate ;)
[14:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson: you have g-s-d g-c-c and g-s assigned
[14:21] <seb128> chrisccoulson: should be enough for after work tasks ;-)
[14:21] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that should keep me busy this evening :)
[14:24]  * chrisccoulson wishes launchpad wouldn't send out a gazillion e-mails every time someone runs apport-collect
[14:27] <hyperair> chrisccoulson: one email per attachment huh
[14:37] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, if I do a dist-upgrade today will I get new gwibber and my Me Menu will be fixed?
[14:37] <kenvandine> not quite yet... tedg is working hard to get patches reviewed :)
[14:37] <kenvandine> i released tarballs of gwibber 2.29.1 yesterday
[14:38] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, coolio
[14:38] <kenvandine> i am doing another look over the package
[14:38] <rickspencer3> it's coming along, good feedback from the community
[14:38] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:38] <rickspencer3> video?
[14:38] <kenvandine> i noticed yesterday right before "releasing" that all the i18n support was removed
[14:38] <kenvandine> so i added that back
[14:38] <kenvandine> a bit of work
[14:38] <rickspencer3> oops
[14:39] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i will have the video this morning
[14:39] <rickspencer3> ok
[14:39] <seb128> kenvandine, using GNOME version scheme?
[14:39] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, so I talked a bit to bilboed this morning
[14:39] <kenvandine> seb128, yup :)
[14:39] <seb128> cool
[14:39] <rickspencer3> basically, what pitivi needs us to do is to triage our pitivi bugs
[14:39]  * seb128 wonders when rick wakes up
[14:39] <seb128> seems 6am is past morning discussion there ;-)
[14:39] <rickspencer3> seb128, 6:00am PST ;)
[14:40] <seb128> pedro_, ^ can we get a pitivi bug day?
[14:40] <seb128> I will have a look to those bugs, I want to have an overview of where we stand there
[14:41] <seb128> but would be nice to have some community bug triaging as well
[14:41] <pedro_> seb128, yes, in fact we added it to the planning page some weeks ago
[14:42] <pedro_> seb128, will ping the community member who offered to organize it and set up everything
[14:42] <seb128> can we do it as the next one? ;-)
[14:42] <seb128> pedro_, you rock, thanks!
[14:42] <pedro_> of course ;-)
[14:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, ^
[14:42] <pedro_> you're welcome ;-)
[14:42] <rickspencer3> chouette!
[14:42] <rickspencer3> thanks pedro_
[14:43] <rickspencer3> pedro_, would it be worth it for you to join #pitivi?
[14:44] <rickspencer3> they are really a good group of folks there, maybe being a bit more plugged in to the community wouldn't be so bad
[14:45] <pedro_> rickspencer3, yep , will do it
[14:45] <rickspencer3> thanks pedro_
[14:45] <pedro_> my pleasure ;-)
[14:46] <hggdh> morning, seb128, have you seen http://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-hackers/2010-February/msg00034.html ?
[14:46] <seb128> pedro_, would be also worth asking there what version they consider bugs useful reporting
[14:46] <seb128> pedro_, ie we should set incomplete all bugs before some recent version
[14:47] <seb128> hggdh, now that you mention it yes, but I've been talked to mbarnes on IRC about it before
[14:47] <seb128> talking rather
[14:47] <seb128> they stay on 2.28 for the next rhel
[14:47] <seb128> we do for lucid too
[14:48] <hggdh> seb128: I thought you might have talked with them, just wanted to be sure you knew it
[14:48] <seb128> hggdh, thanks for checking!
[14:49] <hggdh> yw
[14:49] <pedro_> seb128, yeap, will ask and put everything on the wiki page
[14:59] <rickspencer3> pitti, I added two things to the agenda for this morning
[14:59] <rickspencer3> 1. we should help with pitivi (not much more to say I guess)
[14:59] <rickspencer3> 2. Post A3, we should switch to bug fixing and ensuring a smooth upgrade experience
[14:59] <rickspencer3>  
[15:00] <pitti> *nod*
[15:00] <pitti> rickspencer3: wrt. 1, we currently don't have much spare developer power; any particular kind of help which is in your mind?
[15:01] <rickspencer3> pitti, yes, but it's already hapenning
[15:01] <rickspencer3> pedro is organizing a bug day, and jono is organizing a hack fest
[15:01] <rickspencer3> but just, in general, the ubuntu community needs to help the pitivi community if we want to deliver a great video editing experience
[15:01] <seb128> didrocks, I'm going the gvfs update
[15:01] <rickspencer3> so it's good just to raise awareness
[15:02] <didrocks> seb128: ok, back on update track on 10 min, after having sponsored gwibber
[15:02] <seb128> ok
[15:09] <didrocks> kenvandine: gwibber sponsored
[15:09] <kenvandine> woot
[15:09] <kenvandine> didrocks, thx!
[15:10] <kenvandine> gwibber-service will need NEWing
[15:10] <didrocks> seb128: pitti ^
[15:10] <seb128> ok
[15:10] <seb128> let wait for it to build
[15:13]  * pitti is in meeting
[15:15] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100209-1-gnome.png
[15:15] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100209-1-mutter.png
[15:15] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100209-1-une.png
[15:15] <pitti> for your viewing pleasure
[15:16] <kklimonda> why isn't mutter cropped?
[15:16] <seb128> urg netbook-launcher
[15:17] <seb128> kklimonda, because bootchart stops after gnome-panel which is not running
[15:17] <seb128> pitti, slightly cheating on gnome one without compiz, but nice! ;-)
[15:17] <kklimonda> seb128, ah, I've thought it was only mutter replacing compiz
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> i should really run bootchart on my laptop this evening
[15:17] <chrisccoulson> it definately feels like it boots quickly
[15:19] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: you've been working with qense on transmission right? It is my understanding that they will try to do 1.90 for lucid?
[15:19] <kklimonda> jcastro, that's the plan
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> jcastro - qense provided the app indicator patch, and got it upstream
[15:20] <jcastro> man, talk about a community->upstream->community textbook win. I owe you all beers.
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> i was going to upload the current version with the patch, but then i chatted with charles and he said there would probably be a 1.90 release before FF
[15:20] <Nafai> That rocks!
[15:21] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I'm not sure if the patch qense have made is working as expected though
[15:21] <chrisccoulson> so i've left it for now, and will wait for 1.90 (unless there is any urgency to get app indicator support in now)
[15:21] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - oh, what's wrong with it?
[15:21] <chrisccoulson> i've not tried it out yet
[15:21] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I've got this when compiled latest trunk: http://syntaxhighlighted.com/~kklimonda/transmission-indicator.png
[15:21] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, all entries use stock names for icons
[15:22] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - ok, i can take a look at that when i get home
[15:22] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I'm not sure whenever it's something on my part though - I have sent qense an email yesterday..
[15:22] <chrisccoulson> the icons there shouldn't be in the menu anyway
[15:23] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, they are in the rhythmbox menu
[15:23] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure they should be there either
[15:23] <chrisccoulson> perhaps someone like mpt can clarify that
[15:23] <pitti> seb128: uh, no compiz? ah, right, I installed UNE, not Ubuntu
[15:23] <pitti> seb128: I already wondered why gnome was so fast :)
[15:23] <seb128> ;-)
[15:23] <lostcookie> a question about org.gnome.SessionManager, if I tell it to inhibit suspend, should it block both automatic and user-attempted suspending?
[15:24] <lostcookie> if you don't mind :)
[15:24] <lostcookie> this is probably the wrong place :S
[15:24] <chrisccoulson> lostcookie - manually suspending from the session dialog will cause an inhibit dialog to appear
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> manually suspending from the indicator applet bypasses that currently, but is something which will be fixed in lucid
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> and gpm now checks for suspend inhibits in lucid before automatically suspending (but that doesn't work in karmic)
[15:25] <chrisccoulson> lostcookie - does that answer your question>?
[15:26] <lostcookie> automatic suspending still happens in 9.10, I am trying to block powersaving while rendering on PiTiVi
[15:30] <milanbv> chrisccoulson: what have you decided about services-admin for Lucid?
[15:30] <chrisccoulson> lostcookie - yeah, thats known to not work in 9.10
[15:30] <chrisccoulson> milanbv - i haven't discussed it yet
[15:31] <milanbv> OK
[15:31] <lostcookie> chrisccoulson: wonderful \o/
[15:31] <lostcookie> that means I am done
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> seb128^^ - your thoughts there? (services-admin works with upstart jobs now)
[15:31] <milanbv> hm - services-admin does not mess with upstart jobs, but it doesn't show them (not sure that's needed)
[15:32] <seb128> no real opinion on it, I would say it's something that could easily break things and that most users don't need
[15:32] <seb128> or those who need it know how to use a command line
[15:32] <seb128> I would stay away from that this cycle, we have enough things to work on and debug
[15:32] <milanbv> well, I'm not sure people want to use the commandline
[15:32] <milanbv> that's much more complex than unchecking a box
[15:33] <milanbv> that's one of the reasons why people think Linux is for geeks: if you don't known the commandline, it's hard to tweak your system a bit
[15:34] <chrisccoulson> milanbv: how does the new implementation work then? does it only work with old sysvinit jobs? or does it just stop the new upstart jobs until you next reboot?
[15:34] <milanbv> it only deals with SysV scripts for now
[15:34] <milanbv> and hides scripts for which there's an upstart jobs
[15:35] <milanbv> I was willing to add Upstart job support, but actually most of them are not interesting to disable
[15:35] <chrisccoulson> do we have much left on the default install which hasn't been converted to upstart then?
[15:35] <milanbv> because they are often essential to the system, and they start only when needed
[15:35] <milanbv> yes, most optional services
[15:35] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok
[15:37] <milanbv> apache, samba, ssh, atop, bluetooth, brltty, cups, dnsmasq, exim, gnunet-server, jackd, klogd, laptop-mode, pcmcia, powernowd, virtuallbox-ose, winbind
[15:37] <milanbv> some are not really useful, but others are definitely interesting to disable
[15:37] <milanbv> (and we can hide others)
[15:37] <milanbv> this gives an important feeling of controlling what's running on your box
[15:38] <mpt> kklimonda, chrisccoulson: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomStatusMenuDesignGuidelines#icons
[15:38] <kklimonda> mpt, thanks
[15:41] <Nafai> mpt: By the way, is the animation here http://www.travishartwell.net/brasero.ogv acceptable?  I didn't really modify what the upstream was doing in that regard
[15:41] <mpt> Nafai, 404
[15:41] <Nafai> just a sec
[15:41] <milanbv> chrisccoulson: if you think Upstart support is useful, I can give it a try, should not be very hard
[15:42] <milanbv> anyway, I think shipping services-admin makes sense, at least as a separate package
[15:42] <Nafai> mpt: By the way, is the animation here http://www.travishartwell.net/brasero-indicator.ogv acceptable?  I didn't really modify what the upstream was doing in that regard
[15:42] <Nafai> Whoops, I edited what I said, instead of giving you the proper URL
[15:42] <Nafai> sorry :)
[15:42] <milanbv> some people have even started using custom python apps because we don't provide the needed tools
[15:47] <mpt> kklimonda, something else to consider for the future: When a checkbox label uses the word "enable", it's usually a symptom that it's being a bit indirect or abstract. So you might consider how to make "Enable Temporary Speed Limits" more direct, e.g. changing it to "Slow Down Temporarily", or changing it to two radio items "Normal Speed" and "Slower Speed" (making corresponding changes in the Preferences window).
[15:48] <chrisccoulson> milanbv - i suppose that putting it in to a separate package might be ok
[15:48] <chrisccoulson> heh, tedg: "Handler to detect when proxies go to heaven, if they're good proxies"
[15:48]  * tedg hates bad proxies
[15:48] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:50] <mpt> Nafai, I don't understand why that's using a menu at all.
[15:51] <Nafai> There is a dialog box not shown in the video (lower down on the screen) that you can use the menu to hide and show
[15:51] <Nafai> I merely replicated the behavior of the previous, but I was mainly concerned about the animation
[15:52] <mpt> Nafai, I think that falls squarely into the category "You do not need a custom status menu if ... You just want the program to take up a small space in the panel when minimized." Just make the progress window minimizable and unclosable instead.
[15:53] <ccheney> hmm lucid seems rather crashy today
[15:53] <Nafai> hrm, good point
[15:54] <mpt> And the window itself contains a Cancel button, presumably.
[15:54] <seb128> you don't want copy dialogs to stay in the way
[15:55] <seb128> I think we already had this discussion ;-)
[15:55] <mpt> Yes, we did :-)
[15:56] <mpt> If anyone was designing an OS from scratch, I don't think they'd say "I know, let's have two different places to minimize things to"
[15:56] <seb128> you don't minimize copies
[15:56] <seb128> you close the UI
[15:57] <seb128> and let the system service do the work
[15:57] <seb128> it's not like letting an app open to use it again
[15:57] <seb128> it's "I'm done, do the copy"
[15:57] <seb128> but you still want to know when it's done
[15:57] <seb128> or when
[15:57] <seb128> ups
[15:57] <seb128> or when it will be done
[15:59] <Nafai> mpt: yes, it does. see http://www.travishartwell.net/brasero-screenshot.png
[16:01] <rickspencer3> *sigh* tomboy won't open :/
[16:02] <seb128> rickspencer3, did you do your daily update?
[16:02] <seb128> rickspencer3, dpkg -l | grep liblaunchpad
[16:02] <rickspencer3> seb128, not yet, will do soon
[16:03] <rickspencer3> I was just whining
[16:03] <seb128> rickspencer3, I fixed that yesterday night
[16:03] <rickspencer3> I'll report a bug if it continues after I dist-upgrade
[16:03] <seb128> rickspencer3, it was due to the launchpad integration changes from robert
[16:03] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok
[16:03] <rickspencer3> thanks robert
[16:03] <rickspencer3> ;)
[16:03] <seb128> rickspencer3, sudo cp /usr/lib/liblaunchpad-integration.so.1 /usr/lib/liblaunchpad-integration.so
[16:03] <seb128> rickspencer3, does that make it work?
[16:04] <rickspencer3> seb128, on call, will check later
[16:04] <Laney> that's a dllmap case
[16:04] <Laney> I hope that was the fix :)
[16:09] <seb128> Laney, right, that's what we were talking about yesterday
[16:10] <seb128> Laney, I added the dll.config mapping to lpi
[16:10] <Laney> oh, good
[16:10] <Laney> no problems then
[16:13] <bryceh> morning
[16:23] <rickspencer3> hiya bryceh
[16:23] <rickspencer3> so, team meeting in 7 minutes, right?
[16:23] <didrocks> hi bryceh
[16:23] <tseliot> oops, I'm a bit late
[16:24]  * tseliot didn't have the time to update the wiki page.
[16:24] <bryceh> rickspencer3, ok
[16:24] <rickspencer3> note that pitti will be driving the team meeting today, as I have to walk my daughter to school due to a series of circumstances
[16:24] <rickspencer3> :)
[16:25] <ccheney> didrocks: were you the person who showed me the problem with openoffice n-up printing being hard to find?
[16:25] <didrocks> ccheney: right
[16:25] <ccheney> didrocks: ah ok, yea upstream said they have fixed this for 3.3 which will be in Ubuntu 10.10
[16:26] <didrocks> ccheney: sweet!
[16:26] <didrocks> I think this is a huge improvement in ui when you want to save some paper sheet :)
[16:27] <ccheney> i'm not entirely sure where they stuck it other than them saying they fixed it :)
[16:29] <seb128> mvo, still have lunch? ;-)
[16:29] <seb128> (vte)
[16:30] <ArneGoetje> hi
[16:30]  * pitti rings the bell
[16:30] <pitti> hello everyone
[16:30] <kenvandine> hey
[16:30] <mvo> seb128: uploaded alrady
[16:30] <didrocks> hey o/
[16:30] <mvo> seb128: eh, I think
[16:30] <seb128> mvo, ok good, thanks ;-)
[16:30] <seb128> hey pitti
[16:30] <pitti> tseliot, Riddell: meeting ping?
[16:30] <seb128> mvo, it's not on -changes
[16:30]  * rickspencer3 slips out quietly
[16:30] <seb128> mvo, but my mail must be lagging
[16:31] <mvo> seb128: no, my mistake it seems
[16:31] <ccheney> hi
[16:31] <pitti> so, boss is out, time for everyone to party
[16:31] <tseliot> o/
[16:31] <didrocks> heh
[16:31] <didrocks> another sauna time? ;)
[16:31] <kenvandine> hehe
[16:31] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-02-09
[16:31] <pitti> everyone safely back home?
[16:32] <pitti> just wanted to say that last week was great!
[16:32] <pitti> (except for the travelling..)
[16:32]  * tseliot agrees with pitti
[16:32] <kenvandine> great week!
[16:32] <seb128> indeed!
[16:32] <pitti> TOPIC: Outstanding actions from last meeting
[16:32] <pitti> fortunately, none
[16:32] <tseliot> :-)
[16:32] <pitti> TOPIC: Partner Update
[16:32] <kenvandine> ok
[16:32] <pitti> kenvandine: floor's your's
[16:33] <kenvandine> lots of stuff landed on thursday
[16:33] <kenvandine> thanks so much for the help seb128!
[16:33] <kenvandine> i was glad to have SFTS time :)
[16:33] <kenvandine> there are known bugs
[16:33] <kenvandine> specifically related to dbusmenu and libindicate
[16:33] <kenvandine> but please don't hesitate to file more
[16:33] <kenvandine> it is API breakage, and there is likely going to be more bugs
[16:34] <pitti> at least all the indicators are generally happy again
[16:34] <kenvandine> s/it is/there was/
[16:34] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:34] <pitti> message one was badly damaged
[16:34] <kenvandine> they are getting better today
[16:34] <kenvandine> again, please file bugs...
[16:34] <kenvandine> it should be the last distruptive change from DX :)
[16:34] <pitti> the new input line in status indicator, is that the away message?
[16:34] <kenvandine> hehe... no
[16:35] <kenvandine> that is the SFTS bit
[16:35] <kenvandine> it posts to gwibber
[16:35] <kenvandine> it will become more dynamic, so if you don't use gwibber it will be hidden
[16:35] <pitti> i don't even have that, shouldn't it appear only when you configured it?
[16:35] <pitti> ah, of course you preemt my complaints, sweet :)
[16:35] <kenvandine> yeah... it was the first pass... but we nned to fix that :)
[16:36] <kenvandine> OLS
[16:36] <kenvandine> they have libubuntuone to land in lucid this week
[16:36] <kenvandine> i am just waiting for a new release and i will look for sponsors
[16:36] <jcastro> qense: can you please blog about your work on transmission? it's awesome.
[16:36] <kenvandine> it is needed for the rb plugin as well as the U1 applet replacement
[16:36] <jcastro> qense: also, include a screenshot. :D
[16:37] <kenvandine> jcastro, meeting :)
[16:37] <jcastro> bah, sorry!
[16:37] <qense> jcastro: good idea, I'll do it!
[16:37] <kenvandine> those are still on schedule to land before feature freeze
[16:37] <kenvandine> that is it for the partner update, questions?
[16:38] <pitti> kenvandine: so RB will land on time?
[16:38] <pitti> it's getting a bit tight
[16:38] <kenvandine> supposedly
[16:38] <pitti> ok, thanks Ken!
[16:38] <pitti> [TOPIC] Kubuntu Update
[16:38] <pitti> Riddell: what's new on the KDE front?
[16:39] <pitti> skipping
[16:39] <pitti> [TOPIC] pitivi
[16:39] <pitti> rickspencer3 put that on the table
[16:40] <pitti> seb128: any idea about the contents, except for "if you have spare cycles, help with bug triage/fixing"?
[16:40] <rickspencer3> pedro_, and seb128 discussed a bit this morning about that
[16:40] <seb128> pitti, I think Riddell is on VAC this week
[16:40] <rickspencer3> pitti, yes, especially community members who are looking for a way to help
[16:40] <seb128> pitti, not really but pedro will set a bug day
[16:40] <rickspencer3> helping pitivi team would be appreciated
[16:41] <pitti> python-gudev is packaged now, so that unblocked their migration away from hal
[16:41] <pitti> is it still on the table to keep it in lucid by default?
[16:42] <pitti> Admittedly I have no idea about it's status and quality
[16:42] <pitti> well, we said we'd review it at beta-1 time, so let's defer that question, shall we?
[16:42] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, btw the problems i was having with pitivi isn't really pitivi's fault... it is recordmydesktop
[16:43] <rickspencer3> pitti, well, it won't be ready no one attends to bugs and such
[16:43] <rickspencer3> and I would like it to be ready ;)
[16:43] <rickspencer3> that's all
[16:43] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, understood, thanks
[16:43]  * rickspencer3 afk
[16:43] <seb128> ETOOMUCHTODO
[16:44] <pitti> which brings us directly to...
[16:44] <seb128> ie we have ton of things which need work and bug fixing and we are getting late
[16:44] <pitti> [TOPIC] post-A3 planning
[16:44] <seb128> I can see packages that need work before pitivi
[16:44] <seb128> ie gpm
[16:44] <pitti> so after we did the rush of new features, boot speed, etc. by alpha-3, we need to switch full speed to fixing what we have
[16:44] <pitti> and stop introducing new things and bugs
[16:45] <pitti> I'll review the list of specs that we have left, and see what we can drop for lucid
[16:45] <pitti> (with rickspencer3 and robbie)
[16:45] <pitti> we'll review that in next week's meeting
[16:45] <bryceh> pitti, I got some more work assigned at the sprint
[16:45] <pitti> bryceh: the ruthless X bits?
[16:45] <bryceh> pitti, I'll try to get specs in for that work today
[16:46] <tseliot> heh
[16:46] <bryceh> pitti, that's one
[16:46] <pitti> bryceh: appreciated, so that we can milestone/WI it
[16:46] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-3.html
[16:46] <pitti> we are generally doing quite well, but it seems we need to drop some bits; we're running over
[16:47] <asac> 17:26 < fta2> asac, plz reject the merge from mvo, the control file is bogus
[16:47] <pitti> tseliot: are there by any chance some WIs from xorg-prop-drivers which are done, but not marked as such yet?
[16:47] <asac> mvo: ^^
[16:47] <asac> seems you committed merge conflicts
[16:47] <pitti> asac: (meeting in progress)
[16:47] <asac> oops
[16:47] <asac> sry
[16:47] <tseliot> let me check
[16:48] <pitti> kenvandine, tseliot, and bryceh currently top the list of open WIs
[16:48] <pitti> which maps to
[16:48] <kenvandine> pitti, most of the SFTS ones are targets of opportunity
[16:48] <pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-xorg-triaging-diagnosis
[16:48] <bryceh> oh I have several nouveau wi's I completed yesterday
[16:48] <kenvandine> so easy to drop
[16:48] <pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-social-from-the-start
[16:48] <pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-xorg-proprietary-drivers
[16:48] <bryceh> sadly I'll still be toping the list once the new specs get added
[16:48] <pitti> kenvandine: right, I was going to suggest that
[16:49] <pitti> kenvandine: as long as it's in a consistent state
[16:49] <kenvandine> but i think it is safe to wait to de-scope those, since we already defined the ones that are easiest to drop
[16:49] <kenvandine> right?
[16:49] <pitti> kenvandine: since you know better which ones need to go together, would you mind moving the optional ones out of alpha-3?
[16:49] <tseliot> pitti: yes, there are a few things which I completed already
[16:49] <pitti> kenvandine: well, I'd rather have them moved out to general "lucid" now, so that we can see where we stand
[16:50] <kenvandine> humm... they shouldn't be listed, they don't have a "work items:" above them
[16:50] <tseliot> pitti: there's not a task about the new boot theme I'm supposed to work on though
[16:50] <kenvandine> oh, the ones targetted for alpha-3 are in good shape
[16:50] <kenvandine> almost done in fact
[16:51] <kenvandine> nm, those should all get completed real soon
[16:51] <pitti> tseliot: oh, which BP does that come from?
[16:52] <pitti> seb128: can we agree that the two remaining WIs on desktop-lucid-compiz-effects are crackful and better be dropped for good? (wrt. messing with configuration)
[16:52] <pitti> seb128: (I'll take the bullets)
[16:52] <seb128> pitti, rick disagreed on that, can we have this discussion after meeting when he's back?
[16:52] <seb128> fine with me
[16:52] <pitti> seb128: ok, I'll discuss with him tomorrow then
[16:52] <seb128> I think it's crackful too
[16:53] <tseliot> pitti: this one: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-boot-experience
[16:53] <seb128> I will get the nm-applet one uploaded this week
[16:53] <seb128> will try to get upstream to comment on it
[16:53] <seb128> then we are mostly done for bootspeed items I guess
[16:54] <seb128> still the wallpaper one remaining
[16:54] <pitti> tseliot: oh, it's all "DONE" there; if there's something outstanding, please add work items under "work items (lucid-alpha-3):"
[16:54] <pitti> seb128: right; any additional wisdom/status about boot speed from you?
[16:54] <seb128> not this week no
[16:55] <seb128> I'm out of mini and didn't have time for that since the sprint
[16:55] <pitti> bryceh: seems that the WIs of you that could most easily be deferred are the bug triaging scripts
[16:55] <desrt> alpha 2 is difficult to install!
[16:55] <tseliot> pitti: I should add a task in that blueprint too, I guess
[16:55] <pitti> bryceh: althought it seems to me that an investment in those might be a huge time-saver in the long run?
[16:55] <bryceh> pitti, that's correct
[16:56] <pitti> bryceh: the two WIs from the other specs seem easy to do
[16:56] <pitti> bryceh: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-3.html#bryceharrington I mean
[16:56] <bryceh> yeah
[16:57] <pitti> bryceh: so perhaps do the high-prio ones first, and work on improving the bug scraping in the remaining time?
[16:57] <bryceh> actually most of the bug triaging tasks are not difficult, I've just been prioritizing other WIs ahead of them as they involve components that go into the distro
[16:57] <bryceh> pitti, yep, that's the plan
[16:58] <pitti> tseliot: ok, let's see how much of your's remain after you close the ones that are done; what's your feeling, do you think you can make your's for alpha-3, or do we need to cut?
[16:59] <seb128> pitti, you can probably postpone the 2 gnome-panel wis from robert_ancell...
[17:00] <pitti> :(
[17:00] <pitti> ok
[17:00] <tseliot> pitti: I don't think I can deal with all of them. Some cuts will definitely be required. I can send you an email about it
[17:00] <pitti> tseliot: appreciated, thanks
[17:00] <seb128> pitti, well maybe check with him but I don't see that happening before alpha3 now
[17:00] <seb128> pitti, it requires some non trivial work and architectural changes
[17:01] <seb128> kenvandine, do we still have gtk changes schedules for alpha3?
[17:01] <kenvandine> maybe
[17:01] <seb128> kenvandine, you have a "integrate patches in the gtk package" work item
[17:02] <kenvandine> we are still waiting
[17:02] <seb128> I was not sure if that was rgba which got delayed to next cycle
[17:02] <pitti> seb128: done
[17:02] <seb128> kenvandine, ok thanks
[17:02] <pitti> does anyone else have some trouble or remarks with his WIs?
[17:03] <didrocks> pitti: the two WI added on my plate by the Mobile team will be review in a call tomorrow
[17:03] <pitti> good, seems that's on track now
[17:03] <pitti> TOPIC: AOB
[17:04] <pitti> 20 seconds
[17:04] <seb128> 10 seconds? ;-)
[17:04] <pitti> [END MEETING]
[17:04] <pitti> thanks everyone!
[17:04] <bryceh> thanks
[17:04] <ccheney> thanks
[17:04] <kenvandine> thx
[17:04] <didrocks> thanks
[17:05] <seb128> thanks
[17:06] <didrocks> seb128: ok, back to update party. Would you mind if I take cheese and nautilus ?
[17:07] <seb128> didrocks, I'm doing nautilus
[17:07] <seb128> ie I started
[17:07] <seb128> feel free to do cheese
[17:07] <didrocks> ok, let's get some cheese so :)
[17:07] <pitti> lol
[17:07] <seb128> hehe
[17:07] <seb128> good luck
[17:07] <seb128> there is a new library there ;-)
[17:07] <pitti> didrocks: thanks for joining the updating party!
[17:07] <didrocks> pitti: heh
[17:07] <didrocks> seb128: yes, I saw that
[17:11] <seb128> didrocks, kenvandine: gwibber newed btw, I didn't use a Replaces on gwibber (<< new_version) though but the Conflicts should avoid issues
[17:11] <kenvandine> ok
[17:11] <kenvandine> th
[17:11] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, seing the conflicts, I was guessing it's enough.
[17:11] <kenvandine> x
[17:11] <didrocks> seeing*
[17:14] <seb128> kenvandine, xchat-indicator binaries newed too
[17:14] <kenvandine> woot
[17:14] <kenvandine> thx!
[17:15] <seb128> np ;-)
[17:15] <kenvandine> are you using it?
[17:18] <seb128> kenvandine, yes
[17:18] <seb128> works fine ;-)
[17:18] <kenvandine> cool
[17:18] <kenvandine> njpatel, btw i fixed that bug in xchat-indicator you had found
[17:18] <kenvandine> with PMs from people that change their nicks
[17:18] <seb128> desrt, what was hard in alpha2 install btw?
[17:19] <seb128> desrt, I didn't reply before since we were in a meeting
[17:19] <njpatel> kenvandine, niice :)
[17:28] <bryceh> pitti, I think I'm going to hold off on doing a spec for ruthless-x, since really it should be done by oubiwann and because it's not clear at the moment if we're going to have tasks to do for it on the desktop team
[17:29] <bryceh> if we do have tasks, I think they're going to mostly be not-Xorg work such as setting up service accounts, wrestling gdm around it, etc. so I think I can escape being the assignee on that one ;-)
[17:29] <bryceh> pitti, however I have created specs for the other four new projects that I failed to escape from:  https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/~bryceharrington/+specs?role=assignee
[17:30] <bryceh> pitti, please review and give guidance regarding priorities
[17:32] <pitti> bryceh: ruthless-X>ack
[17:33] <pitti> bryceh: will reviwe the new ones
[17:33] <pitti> bryceh: well, I assume they come from partners/OEM/etc? In other words, I probably don't have much say in their priorities anyway?
[17:34] <bryceh> no one told me, "We need this for customer XYZ", just more of "It would be really cool for our customers if this worked, because..."
[17:34] <pitti> oh
[17:34] <pitti> definitively "Low" then
[17:34] <pitti> i. e. targets of opportuninty?
[17:34] <bryceh> guess so
[17:38]  * pitti waves goodbye for today
[17:38] <seb128> pitti, see you tomorrow!
[17:44] <didrocks> see you pitti
[17:44] <rickspencer3> 'night pitti, thanks for covering hte meeting for me
[18:13] <seb128> didrocks, I did upload the new glib btw
[18:13] <seb128> didrocks, so you build workaround is not required now
[18:13] <didrocks> seb128: sweet, I'll remove it next time I upload it
[18:14] <didrocks> seb128: in fact, cheese already had a library: /usr/lib/libcheese-gtk.so.0.0.0
[18:14] <seb128> yeah I know
[18:14] <seb128> I just didn't bother splitting binaries in previous update
[18:14] <seb128> too much to do ;-)
[18:14] <didrocks> almost finished :-)
[18:14] <seb128> and nothing is using it out of cheese yet
[18:14] <seb128> didrocks, you rock!
[18:14] <didrocks> I've just to generate the symbol file
[18:15] <jono> wow is anyone getting weird window decorations?
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> weird?
[18:15] <jono> I am getting these weird brown window decorations
[18:15] <jono> and the app indicator area applets are all brown
[18:16] <Nafai> :(
[18:16] <jono> let me take a screenshot
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> aren't the window decorations brown anyway? ;)
[18:31] <james_w> it would be cool if someone wanted to update hamster-applet to the new upstream version
[18:31] <desrt> seb128: a few small things are buggered up in the installer
[18:31] <james_w> I would happily sponsor
[18:31] <desrt> seb128: (i was using the server install CD)
[18:31] <desrt> seb128: like after not asking me any questions about grub at all it said "[!!] you didn't configure grub!  your system will be screwed!  are you sure you want to continue?   <yes>  <no>"
[18:31] <desrt> seb128: so of course i said "no".  i thought about it for another second or two then popped up exactly the same dialog
[18:32] <desrt> (infinite loop)
[18:32] <desrt> *it thought about it
[18:33] <seb128> desrt, heh ;-)
[18:33] <chrisccoulson> james_w - if nobody beats me to it, i will do hamster-applet when i do my round of updates after dinner
[18:33] <james_w> nice
[18:33] <seb128> chrisccoulson: do the other ones first please ;-)
[18:34] <seb128> ie the one which we ship by default and care about
[18:34] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - will do ')
[18:34] <desrt> seb128: will try again with the next alpha
[18:34] <james_w> chrisccoulson: you do it, I'll cook you dinner :-)
[18:35] <seb128> lol
[18:35] <chrisccoulson> ooh, i look forward to that ;)
[18:35] <didrocks> seb128: how do you determine what should be landing in a -common package that the library could use too? (read the code?)
[18:40] <didrocks> dinner time, bbl
[18:41] <james_w> bon appetit
[18:46] <dobey> hey james_w
[18:47] <james_w> hey dobey
[18:47] <dobey> james_w: did that bug you mentioned get fixed yet?
[18:48] <james_w> yeah, but I'm currently writing some code that may make the task easier, shall we work on this tomorrow?
[18:49] <dobey> james_w: sure, thanks!
[18:53] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, ping
[18:58] <chrisccoulson> hey kklimonda
[18:59] <didrocks> james_w: heh, thx :)
[18:59] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, is the text displayed by gnome session when logout is suspended configurable? the text "This program is blocking log out."
[19:02] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - yes, the application can create an inhibitor and specify a reason,
[19:02] <chrisccoulson> the generic text there is displayed when the application doesn't respond to SaveYourself quick enough
[19:03] <chrisccoulson> (i think)
[19:03] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, should I create inhibitor or use eggsmclient ?
[19:03] <chrisccoulson> you should probably use eggsmclient for now
[19:03] <chrisccoulson> when are you seeing that message?
[19:03] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I'm playing with transmission to make it save state of torrents on log out so It doesn't have to reverify active torrents every time
[19:04] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. how long does that take?
[19:04] <chrisccoulson> i think it has something like 5 seconds to resond to the SaveYourself before the inhibit dialog appears
[19:04] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, I'd say a moment - but Transmission also tries to upload all stats to trackers and it takes more time
[19:05] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that might be more problematic then
[19:07] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, also right now when I use both eggsmclient and inhibition API Transmission shows up twice in the logout dialog..
[19:07] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda - yeah, that might not be the right thing to do then
[19:07] <chrisccoulson> gnome-session only gives you 1 second btw
[19:14] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I guess you just push everything in usr/share in -common package
[19:18] <seb128> didrocks, context?
[19:20] <didrocks> seb128: hum, you didn't follow my previous hl about -common package. But I figured it, just put every architecture independent files in it and make the new lib depends on it :)
[19:20] <seb128> didrocks, no sorry I took the screen from this computer to put it on an another one to format the mini ssd
[19:20] <seb128> reading now
[19:21] <didrocks> seb128: don't bother, I looked at the brasero example :)
[19:21] <didrocks> and figured out
[19:21] <seb128> didrocks, does the lib needs anything from there? images or something
[19:21] <didrocks> seb128: that's what I meant by "reading the code" is the only way, right? no special thing in a file like .pc or something else?
[19:23] <seb128> didrocks, not that I know about no
[19:24] <didrocks> ok, looking at the code to see if the lib should depends on it (in every case, a -common package is still good for archive space and build saving)
[19:25] <seb128> build saving?
[19:25] <seb128> I find common to rather clutter the namespace and list of packages but yeah they are useful
[19:26] <seb128> bah
[19:26] <seb128> armel is a piece of crap
[19:26] <didrocks> right, it doesn't save so much "build time" finally
[19:26] <seb128> asac, what should be do with build which fail due to random segfault in libtool calls?
[19:26] <seb128> asac, just retry those?
[19:32] <Nafai> The new gwibber  theme looks sweet
[19:43] <asac> seb128: yes. retry. our builders are really flaky
[19:43] <asac> thanks
[19:43] <seb128> ok
[19:43] <seb128> np
[19:51] <Nafai> So, there's a downside for using webkit to render gwibber.  I'm able to right click and try things like "reload" which don't necessary make sense
[19:51] <Nafai> Is there a way to disable that in gwibber?
[19:52] <seb128> Nafai, I've not used webkit but I'm pretty sure you can
[19:52] <Nafai> yeah, cause I accidentally fubared the interface by hitting reload :)
[19:52] <Nafai> I suppose I should file a bug
[19:52] <seb128> yeah
[20:06] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine - we don't need to show the gwibber accounts/preferences menu items by default in the preferences menu do we?
[20:06] <chrisccoulson> (from the panel)
[20:07] <kenvandine> chrisccoulson: that is being discussed
[20:07] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine, - ah, ok
[20:07] <kenvandine> so not for sure yet
[20:07] <kenvandine> having them in the menu makes it feel more like a desktop service
[20:07] <chrisccoulson> i think they're a bit unnecessary, seeing as accounts is accessible from the me menu
[20:07] <kenvandine> so you can change things without actually running the client
[20:07] <kenvandine> which we want people to think of more like a viewer
[20:08] <kenvandine> right
[20:08] <kenvandine> so perhaps accounts can go away from the preferences menu
[20:08] <kenvandine> and we just leave the settings there
[20:08] <kenvandine> not sure
[20:08] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that would be better
[20:08] <kenvandine> but trying to disconnect the notion that you need to be running the client to make changes to your "social desktop"
[20:09] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i understand that. so, it probably makes sense for the preferences menu item to remain then
[20:11] <didrocks> seb128: not sure I'll upload cheese tonight. The packaging side seems to be ok, but it's segfaulting at start
[20:27] <james_w> pitti: FYI: lp:bzr-builddeb now has "bzr dh-make" to start packaging
[20:31] <seb128> didrocks, ok, no hurry
[20:31] <seb128> didrocks, let's look at this tomorrow morning
[20:32] <didrocks> seb128: I'm just finishing building in "one package" to test if I have no missing file
[20:34] <didrocks> seb128: ok, all one packaging is segfaulting as well, let's see if we got a .91 tomorrow (or .90.1)
[20:35] <seb128> ok
[21:14] <gabaug> djsiegel: you know about http://banshee-project.org/~gburt/tmp/banshee-librivox.png right?
[21:14] <djsiegel> gabaug: yes :)
[21:15] <didrocks> bah, can't get a proper backtrace as glib ddbsym isn't built yet
[21:15] <djsiegel> I definitely want easier though
[21:15] <didrocks> will see tomorrow, good night everyone :)
[21:15] <djsiegel> like an "Audio Books" tree in the sidebar
[21:15] <djsiegel> so it just looks like the computer has a library of audio books on it already
[21:16] <gabaug> yeah, that could be cool
[21:16] <djsiegel> gabaug: wouldn't that be great? I think even the smallest barrier (search in this case) will prevent people from finding great content
[21:16] <djsiegel> my mom won't click on "internet archive"
[21:16] <gabaug> yeah, probably true
[21:16] <djsiegel> she would think it has to do with downloading web pages or her history or something
[21:16] <gabaug> yeah
[21:16] <SEJeff> gabaug, Sweet. Where does it get those books from?
[21:17] <gabaug> SEJeff: archive.org
[21:17] <djsiegel> gabaug: hey how do I make my sidebar condensed like that?
[21:18] <gabaug> djsiegel: for now, the only way is by setting a gconf key: /apps/banshee-1/player_window/source_view_row_height = 16
[21:18] <gabaug> oh, and source_view_row_padding = 0 maybe?
[21:18] <djsiegel> gabaug: I'm down with that :)
[21:20] <djsiegel> gabaug: man you guys bring the awesome
[21:20] <gabaug> djsiegel: I did try to make it easy to get to audiobooks with http://banshee-project.org/~gburt/tmp/banshee-archive.png
[21:20] <gabaug> but I can see that even having to click 'Internet Archive' is scary/a barrier
[21:21] <SEJeff> perhaps, "Online Content"
[21:21] <SEJeff> or something to the gist of that
[21:21] <djsiegel> Yeah, I think the ideal would be "Audio Books" or maybe just "Books"
[21:21] <djsiegel> once you click that, you immediately see stuff you can click to listen
[21:21] <gabaug> djsiegel: yeah, integration into the actual Audiobooks library would be cool I think
[21:22] <djsiegel> gabaug: also, maybe even a "Getting started" screen for people with empty libraries....
[21:22] <djsiegel> I know, sounds like it could be terrible
[21:22] <djsiegel> but
[21:22] <djsiegel> Banshee can do amazing things but people just won't figure out podcasts or audiobooks unless you basically do it for them
[21:23] <gabaug> djsiegel: how about this: you view the "Audiobooks" library, which shows you your local stuff, but the Content Pane (where last.fm recs + wikipedia currently are) it could show your Internet Archive audiobooks
[21:23] <gabaug> and jump you to the Internet Archive source if you select them, maybe
[21:23] <djsiegel> gabaug: hmm
[21:24] <djsiegel> gabaug: I think you should freely mix online and offline content
[21:25] <djsiegel> with inline "download" buttons in rows or something
[21:25] <djsiegel> so it looks like I have hundreds of books in my library
[21:25] <djsiegel> and I can double-click to stream
[21:25] <djsiegel> or click to download
[21:25] <djsiegel> more advanced users can select a non-default "my local files only" view
[21:25] <gabaug> djsiegel: say you did have 5 of your own/ripped audiobooks - how would you display those inline w/ some random results from librivox/archive.org?
[21:26] <gabaug> basically the same question: how do you propose the user would alter what online books are shown?
[21:26] <djsiegel> gabaug: I think the "I have local files and I know the difference" case is more advanced
[21:26] <djsiegel> search search search
[21:26] <djsiegel> and use of the browser pane
[21:26] <djsiegel> Online Content
[21:26] <djsiegel> Local Books
[21:26] <djsiegel> stuff like that
[21:26] <djsiegel> My Library
[21:26] <djsiegel> LibriVox
[21:26] <djsiegel> All Books
[21:26] <gabaug> and if you're not searched, what's the default view?
[21:26] <djsiegel> Default is All
[21:27] <gabaug> heh
[21:27] <djsiegel> Definitely warrants user testing
[21:27] <djsiegel> but I think there could be something to showing people this online content by default, as if they had it on their machine
[21:28] <gabaug> yeah.  I definitely like the idea of making the content more integrated/easier to find/impossible to miss
[21:28] <djsiegel> as far as most people would know, Banshee "came with" 1,000 free audio books
[21:28] <gabaug> yeah
[21:28] <djsiegel> definitely do not overestimate the average user's ability to understand files in general, and local files vs streaming vs downloading in particular
[21:29] <djsiegel> You want (1) See content (2) click it (3) enioy it
[21:30] <gabaug> djsiegel: yeah - I think we do alright w/ that in podcasts - if it's already downloaded (by policy or manually) and you double click, it'll play off disk, otherwise it'll stream
[21:30] <djsiegel> yeah that is very cool
[21:30] <djsiegel> I just think it's missing the initial seed
[21:30] <djsiegel> the features are amazing, but it's a non-starter because the content has to be added
[21:31] <djsiegel> not only does it have to be added (sources), it involves copying xml URLs and crazy stuff
[21:31] <gabaug> djsiegel: have you seen the Miro Guide integration work?
[21:31] <djsiegel> Just think of some imaginary great photo library app
[21:31] <gabaug> am not sure it'll ever land, but hopefully some day..
[21:31] <djsiegel> think of the first time any given user opens it
[21:31] <djsiegel> in one scenario, it opens to an empty library
[21:32] <djsiegel> in another, it opens to 10,000 amazing HD national geographic photos or something in an album
[21:32] <djsiegel> in the latter scenario, the user immediately begins experiencing the software
[21:32] <djsiegel> they are motivated to learn, explore, crop, set desktops
[21:33] <djsiegel> they have fun just scrolling the library view
[21:33] <gabaug> http://vimeo.com/6601743 - banshee/miro guide integration
[21:33] <djsiegel> something they can't do with an empty library
[21:33] <gabaug> yeah
[21:33] <gabaug> reduce the barrier to 'play' in whatever sense
[21:34] <gabaug> http://miroguide.com/ - if you're not familiar with it
[21:34] <djsiegel> gabaug: awesome
[21:34] <djsiegel> hmm
[21:35] <djsiegel> would be nice to actively manage that sidebar for the user...
[21:35] <djsiegel> it looks like it can get out of control
[21:35] <gabaug> yeah
[21:35] <djsiegel> we really need to create a sidebar solution for the community to use...
[21:35] <djsiegel> everyone rolls their own
[21:35] <gabaug> this is definitely just a prototype
[21:36] <djsiegel> so
[21:36] <djsiegel> I wanted to do a project like 100 paper cuts
[21:36] <djsiegel> but called 100 new features or something
[21:36] <gabaug> 100 featurelets
[21:36] <djsiegel> get every project, big or small, to develop a new feature that will delight users
[21:37] <djsiegel> maybe I can talk to you about how you guys are motivated to always deliver something new
[21:37] <djsiegel> I think many projects have forgotten what it means to deliver a new feature
[21:37] <djsiegel> forgot the rush you get :)
[21:44] <gabaug> djsiegel: if you click the "Subscribe' button on miroguide.com, it should try to open a .miro file, and Banshee should be the/an option there, btw
[21:44] <djsiegel> gabaug: oh, cool
[21:45] <djsiegel> that might be a good default bookmark then, once banshee is in
[21:45] <gabaug> yeah, definitely a good one
[21:45] <gabaug> it's run by the non-profit Participatory Culture Foundation, the guys who make the Miro video player
[21:55] <djsiegel> gabaug: at my first UDS we had a session about including free content and I got really worked up
[21:55] <djsiegel> gabaug: I wanted to include all sorts of rich media and the suggestion on the table was to add an RSS feed to gnome-look or some crap
[21:55] <djsiegel> gabaug: I screamed "THAT'S BORING!"
[21:56] <gabaug> heh
[22:01] <rickspencer3> TheMuso Eastern Edition?
[22:01] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Sure thing. I have not long emailed my activity report to you.
[22:01] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, yeah, just saw it
[22:02] <TheMuso> great.
[22:02] <rickspencer3> I didn't actually attend the main meeting this morning, but pitti said he updated the minutes and such
[22:02] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-02-09
[22:02]  * rickspencer3 reads
[22:02] <TheMuso> ok
[22:02] <TheMuso> oh and BTW everyone here, http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/02/09/0024241/Oracle-Drops-Suns-Commitment-To-Accessibility
[22:04] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, let me know when you are done looking over the wiki
[22:04] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: sure
[22:04] <TheMuso> done
[22:04] <rickspencer3> in terms of # Martin to review post-alpha 3 desktop team blueprints and discuss with Rick and Robbie what to drop
[22:05] <rickspencer3> basically, I want us to drop *everything* (that we possibly can)
[22:05] <rickspencer3> I want us to focus on integrating Dx and OLS work, bugfixing, and making upgrades work smoothly
[22:05] <rickspencer3> in terms of #Martin to discuss remaining two WIs for desktop-lucid-compiz-effects with Rick ...
[22:06] <rickspencer3> this is problematic as seb128 promised me, who then promised sabdfl, that we would cache compiz settings and then have them restorable from a script on upgrade
[22:06] <rickspencer3> I don't see how we can get out of doing this
[22:07] <seb128> rickspencer3, we can do that easily
[22:08] <seb128> rickspencer3, we just think it's prone to lead to issues and break the golden rule we set with warty to not touch user settings on upgrade
[22:08] <rickspencer3> seb128, yeah
[22:08] <seb128> I guess everything change
[22:08] <seb128> but that's something we have been sticking with since day1
[22:08] <rickspencer3> the minutes said something about it being a lot of work
[22:08] <seb128> did they?
[22:08] <rickspencer3> seb128, the dx sprint would have been a better time to bring this up for discussion
[22:08] <seb128> it's rather slippy path
[22:09] <seb128> I've raised my concern during the sprint
[22:09] <rickspencer3> desktop-lucid-compiz-effects: Remaining two are a lot of work, and highly questionable; should be dropped, but Martin to confirm/discuss with Rick
[22:09] <rickspencer3> seb128, ah, ok
[22:09] <seb128> but I've been overuled
[22:09] <rickspencer3> seb128, I suppose I blew you off? sorry about that
[22:09] <rickspencer3> maybe we can do it the other way
[22:09] <seb128> that's ok
[22:09] <rickspencer3> like obey the golden rule, and then have a script that will do the new setting for you if you want them
[22:10] <seb128> well that's basically equivalent to selecting standard effect in the appareance capplet...
[22:10] <seb128> no need of a script we already have the ui for it
[22:12] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[22:12] <rickspencer3> ok, let me bring this up tomorrow with sabdfl
[22:12] <rickspencer3> perhaps we could role out the golden rule breaking change with A3 and see what kind of feedback we get
[22:12] <seb128> do you talk to pitti or sadbdl first tomorrow?
[22:12] <rickspencer3> I
[22:12] <rickspencer3> 'll talk to pitti first
[22:12] <seb128> ok, so all good
[22:13] <seb128> sort with pitti what he things
[22:13] <rickspencer3> alright
[22:13] <seb128> I delayed the change not because I don't want to do it but because we just did the settings change a few days ago
[22:13] <seb128> and I didn't come to do the backup and overwrite thing yet
[22:13] <rickspencer3> seb128, I know
[22:13] <rickspencer3> :)
[22:13] <seb128> I can still easily do for alpha3
[22:13] <seb128> talk to pitti and sabdfl
[22:13] <seb128> and tell me what to do tomorrow after that
[22:13] <seb128> and we will get that done ;-)
[22:14] <rickspencer3> seb128, ok, will do .. thanks
[22:14] <seb128> np
[22:14] <rickspencer3> seb128, in terms of post A3 work items, as I said to TheMuso ...
[22:14] <rickspencer3> I was thinking that we default to zero work items from the desktop team
[22:15] <rickspencer3> thoughts?
[22:15] <rickspencer3> seb128, nm, I just realized it's late night there, we can pick it up in the morning
[22:15] <seb128> having time for bug fixing would be really welcome
[22:15] <seb128> so +1
[22:15] <rickspencer3> not just bug fixing, but also making sure upgrades work very well
[22:15] <seb128> don't worry, if I'm still on IRC I'm fine discussing there
[22:15] <seb128> I would close IRC otherwise ;-)
[22:15] <seb128> right
[22:15] <rickspencer3> hehe
[22:15] <rickspencer3> ok, I
[22:16] <rickspencer3> 'll look through the blueprints and see if we can't just punt everything
[22:16] <rickspencer3> I had already communicating a few times that everything is alpha 3 or bust, post a3 is bugs, integration with Dx/OLS, and upgrade experience
[22:17] <rickspencer3> too bad TheMuso dropped off!
[22:17] <bryceh> hey I have a question along these lines
[22:18] <bryceh> I get a lot of questions to me about X stuff, it consumes a good chunk of time each day to respond to all the requests
[22:18] <bryceh> I would like to tell people, "Sorry I can't talk to you, I'm too busy" but this seems rude.  Is there a better way to handle this?
[22:20] <rickspencer3> bryceh, this sounds familiar
[22:20] <rickspencer3> an ongoing issue
[22:20] <bryceh> yeah...
[22:20] <rickspencer3> what kind of questions are you referring to?
[22:20] <robert_ancell> hey bryceh.  Looks like you were the entire meeting last week :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-02-02
[22:20] <bryceh> robert_ancell, indeed ;-)
[22:20] <rickspencer3> heh
[22:21] <rickspencer3> hi robert_ancell
[22:21] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hi
[22:21] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, did you hear, jono wants to marry Simple Scan
[22:21] <rickspencer3> anyway, bryce, is this trouble shooting?
[22:21] <jono> rickspencer3, blog post is in the works about said scanning software
[22:21] <jono> :)
[22:21] <robert_ancell> sweet :)  Not sure what country that is legal in though....
[22:21] <robert_ancell> and what your wife might think jono!
[22:21] <jono> robert_ancell, I was wondering if you would give me your blessing to marry simple scan
[22:22] <jono> robert_ancell, we have a very open minded relationship
[22:22] <bryceh> rickspencer3, typical questions are "Have you seen this bug before?" "Is there any more info I can put on this bug?" "Can you tell me how to do foo in X?" "Is my card supported on ...?" etc.
[22:22] <robert_ancell> clearly!
[22:22] <robert_ancell> jono, you have my blessing
[22:22] <jono> she realizes that when it comes to really simple scanning, I can set my Facebook profile to "In a Relationship with Simple Scan"
[22:22] <jono> :)
[22:22] <jono> robert_ancell, seriously, pal, my socks were physically rocked off when I used it
[22:22] <robert_ancell> that reminds me, I really need to make another release...
[22:23] <robert_ancell> jono, xsane set a very low barrier to beat :)
[22:23] <rickspencer3> bryceh, is this on irc?
[22:23] <jono> robert_ancell, lol
[22:23] <jcastro> robert_ancell: I am naming my next pet "simple scan"
[22:23] <bryceh> robert_ancell, hey I just used that today to scan my receipt for last week.  totally rocks.  good bye xsane
[22:23] <jono> jcastro, we need to make this a meme
[22:24] <bryceh> rickspencer3, irc, email, in person, phone calls...  ;-)
[22:24] <jcastro> I hear across America they are naming elementary schools "Simple Scan"
[22:24] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[22:24] <rickspencer3> bryceh, I think your Wiki King status gives you a bit of right to pull a rtfm on folks
[22:24] <bryceh> hehe
[22:24] <bryceh> ok
[22:24] <jono> I am considering entering into a loving relationship with Simple Scan. How much do you love it? #howilovesimplescan
[22:25] <rickspencer3> and perhaps on irc, set yourself to away even when you are not, and point to your x wiki in your away message
[22:25] <jcastro> I would blog it an put it in the title of the channel
[22:25] <rickspencer3> in terms of email, perhaps also reply with links to the wiki and ask folks to make sure the information is not in there before they ping you
[22:25] <jcastro> so people don't think you're rude when you don't respond
[22:26] <rickspencer3> jcastro, do you know what the title of #ubuntu-x is?
[22:26] <rickspencer3> anway, you don't need to be responsive *all the time*
[22:27] <rickspencer3> and anyone from OEM services, send them straight to tseliot ;)
[22:27] <rickspencer3> (unless it is tseliot, of course :) )
[22:27] <jcastro> we need developer bouncers. :p
[22:29] <crimsun> does that same approach work for non-staff? ;)
[22:32] <seb128> rickspencer3, btw in the compiz setting discussion, not every setting is cosmetic
[22:32] <seb128> rickspencer3, some of the changes are for example key bindings
[22:32] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[22:32] <seb128> I know I would be pretty annoyed if somebody wipped my keybindings
[22:32] <rickspencer3> seb128, tell me what you think is the right thing to do
[22:32] <seb128> I've those configured for years
[22:33] <seb128> I would avoid touching user customized settings on upgrade
[22:33] <seb128> which is what we always did
[22:33] <seb128> I can understand the rational for it
[22:34] <seb128> but it's an open path for annoying people who really care about what they did configure and feel strongly we should not decide for them
[22:34] <tseliot> rickspencer3: ?
[22:35] <rickspencer3> hi tseliot, didn't meant to call you, sorry
[22:35] <tseliot> rickspencer3: np
[22:35] <crimsun> I venture you're much more likely to get strong pushback if you touch user-customized settings
[22:35] <rickspencer3> crimsun, yeah, but if you've made one small tweak, that probably doesn't mean that you don't want all the new much improved compiz settings, right?
[22:36] <rickspencer3> so how do we have our cake and eat it to?
[22:36] <crimsun> rickspencer3: I can't speak for that particular use case, but it has always been really nasty to do something similar for PA
[22:36] <TheMuso> Riddell: sorry dropped off
[22:36] <seb128> rickspencer3, my gut feeling is that getting such things right require cautious work that we will not spend on improving lucid quality
[22:36] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: sorry
[22:37] <rickspencer3> instead of a restore script, maybe we should have a "factory defaults" script, which users have to ask for, but will blow away customizations and set up the new defaults?
[22:37] <TheMuso> dropped off
[22:37] <TheMuso> Riddell: sorry meant Rick.
[22:37] <Laney> continuity is more important imo
[22:37] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, np, understood
[22:37] <seb128> rickspencer3, and that we will better deserve user by starting improving lucid rather than spending days on corner cases
[22:37] <Laney> you can provide instructions to give existing user accounts the new experience
[22:37] <rickspencer3> and don't worry, Riddell is on vacation atm ;)
[22:37] <rickspencer3> Laney, seb128 but what would those instructions be?
[22:37] <TheMuso> heh
[22:38] <rickspencer3> would they be to "run this script", something in the GUI?
[22:38] <Riddell> well I'm doing the KDE 4.4.0 release but that's the sort of thing I do for my holidays :)
[22:39] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Did you receive my audio update?
[22:39] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, nope
[22:39] <rickspencer3> sorry
[22:39] <rickspencer3> unless it was in your activity report
[22:39] <Laney> rickspencer3: I don't know, and I'm not one to tell you what to do, but I wouldn't consider this a priority really... it seems like a broken way to do things
[22:39] <seb128> rickspencer3, that's one of the reasons I'm reluctant to the "change settings and have a way to restore previous config"
[22:39] <rickspencer3> haha, Hi Riddell
[22:40] <seb128> rickspencer3, I don't see a way to do that, either you display a dialog with the information which we don't want to do or it will not be obvious
[22:40] <Laney> Probably fixing the reason why users won't see new system defaults if they haven't modified the corresponding settings themselves would be more worthwhile
[22:40] <rickspencer3> seb128, I don't mind if it's non-obvious
[22:41] <seb128> well if you blow users setting and hide how to restore them in a system text file they will never find...
[22:41] <rickspencer3> if we can just tell people to run an obscure script that we drop for them somewhere, that's probably ok
[22:41] <rickspencer3> seb128, I'm asking the opposite question, I think
[22:41] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: argh ok hang on
[22:42] <rickspencer3> if we *follow* the golden rule, we can assume some people might just want the new defaults
[22:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, oh ok, well setting system default is selecting "normal effect" in the apperance capplet
[22:42] <rickspencer3> how do we let users get those anyway?
[22:42] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Basically the update is that we now have a couple more Canonical employees who can help with hda hardware enablement, since I gave them a crash course last week. There is more to cover, but we've made a start.
[22:42] <TheMuso> Second is the power saving stuff. IDT/Sigmatel codecs have proper power saving code in the kernel, and hense it gets enabled by the pmutios stuff.
[22:42] <rickspencer3> seb128, so if you are set to Normal, you get zero customizations?
[22:42] <rickspencer3> sorry, TheMuso go ahead
[22:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, yes, normal is "apply the normal ubuntu profile"
[22:43] <seb128> ie what we set by default
[22:43] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: ^^
[22:44] <rickspencer3> ok, I think the whole discussion is moot
[22:45] <bratsche> robert_ancell: Hey dude, you around?
[22:45] <rickspencer3> ok, so in terms of new compiz
[22:45] <robert_ancell> bratsche, yup
[22:45] <rickspencer3> 1. if you are on advanced, nothing will change for you on upgrade
[22:45] <rickspencer3> 2. If you are on advanced and then upgrade, and then switch to Normal, you will have new settings
[22:45] <rickspencer3> 3. If you are on Normal, you will get new setting on upgrade
[22:46] <seb128> yes
[22:46] <bratsche> robert_ancell: Hey, the LocalDisplayFactory switch_to_user stuff in gdm.. is that finished and working?  I'm trying to add support for that to indicator-session.
[22:46] <rickspencer3> ok, I feel this is a non-issue
[22:46] <robert_ancell> bratsche, yes, it should be
[22:46] <seb128> ok good
[22:46] <seb128> rickspencer3, let's confirm with sabdfl tomorrow and set that for lucid then
[22:46] <rickspencer3> I will confirm with sabdfl when I get a chance, but it seems clear that ...
[22:46] <rickspencer3> hehe, never mind
[22:46] <seb128> ;-)
[22:47] <bratsche> robert_ancell: Hmm, okay.. I'll keep looking at this and try to figure it out.  Not sure why it's not working yet, so just wanted to make sure.
[22:48] <robert_ancell> bratsche, what is happening for you?
[22:48] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, just so I understand, you are saying that you've grown the list of hardware that we can troubleshoot for Lucid by training up some Canonical Ubuntu folks at the sprint last week?
[22:48] <bratsche> robert_ancell: So far nothing, I click the menuitem and nothing appears to happen.  What is the second parameter in SwitchToUser for?  It says <arg name="id" direction="out" type="o"/>
[22:48] <bratsche> robert_ancell: I wasn't sure what this was so right now I'm just passing NULL to that.  Maybe I'm not supposed to do that. :)
[22:49] <robert_ancell> bratsche, that's an output (type="o")
[22:49] <robert_ancell> it returns a dbus address I think
[22:49] <bratsche> Yeah, but what is it supposed to retrieve?
[22:49] <bratsche> Oh okay.
[22:49] <robert_ancell> (it's the same thing that is returned from StartGuestSession(), CreateTransientDisplay() etc)
[22:50] <bratsche> Okay.
[22:52] <bratsche> Hmm, with the guest session stuff it looks like we're still using /usr/share/gdm/guest-session/guest-session-launch
[22:55] <bjf> bryceh, nouveau install failed: https://pastebin.canonical.com/27638/
[22:57] <bratsche> woot, new CDs in the mail!
[23:00] <bryceh> bjf, need to uninstall linux-backports-modules-nouveau-2.6.32-11-generic first
[23:03] <bratsche> robert_ancell: aha, I got it working using dbus-send.  So obviously I'm just doing something wrong in the code.
[23:03] <bjf> bryceh, thanks, I seem to be in a catch 22, can't uninstall 2.6.32-11 because .12 have unmet dependencies, let me work through that
[23:03] <robert_ancell> bratsche, sweet, feel free to put the code in a pastebin if you want me to have a look
[23:04] <bryceh> bjf, erf
[23:04] <TheMuso> bbl got somethign to take care of before the morning gets on too much.
[23:10] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, how is your Python-fu?
[23:10] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, not too bafd
[23:10] <robert_ancell> bad
[23:10] <rickspencer3> I am refactoring a class to derive from another class, but I find that I have to keep breaking encapsulation because "__" members aren't inherited
[23:10] <rickspencer3> so is there a way to make a private member that gets inherited?
[23:11] <rickspencer3> (I know this is probably a basic linguistic question, but it's the first time I've run into it as a problem)
[23:11] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, no, private members are a bit of a hack in Python - they are just name mangled to ClassName__method - I stopped using them entirely because if one of your derivative classes has the same name as a parent they can collide
[23:12] <rickspencer3> so I have to have stuff like a member variable named "editable" and a method called "set_editable"?
[23:12] <rickspencer3> seems a terrible API :/
[23:12] <robert_ancell> why not use a property?
[23:12] <rickspencer3> (I need set_editable because there are side effects)
[23:13] <rickspencer3> because the property would set a private member, that doesn'
[23:13] <rickspencer3> t get inherited
[23:13] <rickspencer3> (these were properties before)
[23:13]  * robert_ancell looks up properties again
[23:13] <robert_ancell> the lack of real private methods annoys me too
[23:14] <robert_ancell> there's probably some decorator you can use that would solve this but I don't know them very well
[23:14] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I suppose this holds true for functions as well
[23:14] <bjf> bryceh, got through the problem, so far nouveau looks great
[23:14] <rickspencer3> no private member functions get inherited?
[23:14] <robert_ancell> everything gets inherited
[23:15] <robert_ancell> just when you refer to a.__x it looks for a.A__x, and b.__x looks for b.B__x
[23:16] <rickspencer3> so therefore:
[23:16] <rickspencer3> AttributeError: 'CouchGrid' object has no attribute '_DictionaryGrid__editable'
[23:18] <rickspencer3> u
[23:18] <rickspencer3> h
[23:18] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, so I moved the __editable member variable outside the scope of a member function, and it works fine
[23:19] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, can you paste that code?
[23:19] <bryceh> bjf, aha excellent
[23:19] <bryceh> bjf, yeah I hate it when the deps get tangled like that
[23:19] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, s'lota code
[23:20] <bryceh> bjf, test suspend/resume when you get a chance; so far no one has found that worked successfully
[23:20] <rickspencer3> and I just reverted :/
[23:21] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, http://paste.ubuntu.com/372805/ - this is the code that doesn't work.  Did you work out a way to get it to work?
[23:23] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, yeah, basically, I redeclare the private members for each class
[23:23] <rickspencer3> http://paste.ubuntu.com/372807/
[23:24] <robert_ancell> But a.__x != b__x
[23:25] <robert_ancell> oh weird. it does work.  I don't see how that works...
[23:26] <robert_ancell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/372809/
[23:28] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, it's probably just some weird text replacement or something
[23:28] <rickspencer3> huh
[23:28] <rickspencer3> weird
[23:29] <rickspencer3> it doesn't really work, does it?
[23:30] <rickspencer3> it prints out 1\n2
[23:31] <rickspencer3> fudge
[23:38] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, oh well
[23:38] <robert_ancell> :/
[23:38] <rickspencer3> according to the docs the "name mangling" is a feature that is intended to basically keep members from being inherited
[23:38] <rickspencer3> so I guess I should just use a single underscore, and then redeclare them in each class?
[23:39] <rickspencer3> that works
[23:39] <rickspencer3> in fact, I don't need to redeclare them that way
[23:40] <rickspencer3> so they are "private" by convention, not by access
[23:40] <rickspencer3> that is workable for me
[23:41] <rickspencer3> so really "__" doesn't mean private, it means "don't clash with subclasses if they use the same property name"
[23:41] <rickspencer3> "_" means private as in "don't consider this member as part of the API"
[23:42]  * rickspencer3 feels slightly smarter
[23:42] <SEJeff> kenvandine, Does jono's post about the new gwibber and "improved reliability" mean less segfaults?
[23:43] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yeah
[23:43] <Nafai> I need to file my bug on gwibber :)
[23:43] <robert_ancell> It took me ages to track down my bug where I had a subclass with the same name and same __ variable :)
[23:45] <rickspencer3> thanks for the help robert_ancell
[23:45] <rickspencer3> this will make the code way better
[23:46] <rickspencer3> sad that I
[23:46] <rickspencer3> ve been doing it wrong all this time :/
[23:53] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, ping? ;)
[23:53] <chrisccoulson> hey kklimonda
[23:53] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, is the reason passed in response to EndSession signal used anywhere?
[23:54] <kklimonda> EndSession signal seems to be emitted when user forces log off/restart so there is no dialog window where it can be displayed
[23:56] <chrisccoulson> kklimonda, are you using EggSMClient?
[23:57] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, no - gnome session dbus api
[23:57] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. the reason ends up in the inhibit dialog
[23:59] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson, can EndSession signal be emitted when inhibit dialog is visible? if so when? I got this signal only after I've chosen to force log off (and it closed dialog).