=== chaotic_ is now known as chaotic
* kwwii rubs the sleep out of his eyes04:58
kwwiivish: hey, I got approval to upload changes to the human theme05:45
kwwiivish: I thought about merging your and psyke83's changes and using that05:46
kwwiisound like a good idea?05:46
vishkwwii: sounds good05:58
dashuavish, Tweaks or bug fixes?06:11
vishdashua: what i uploaded were just bug fixes.. psyke did mod of theme06:13
dashuaOh nice06:13
kwwiiso I'll merge them as best and upload today06:34
kwwiiseb wants to stop hearing people complain :P06:34
dashuaAny reason to keep Human-Clearlooks?06:40
dashuaHow about a murrine counterpart Human-Legacy or such.06:41
dashuakwwii, I proposed a merge request for the community-themes package.  Update three theme and added on for testing.   It build but if you could check the changelog when you get a chance?06:49
dashuaNot sure if I did it correctly.06:49
kwwiidashua: yes, will do06:52
kwwiidashua: I wanted to add some new stuff to the community themes package as well06:53
dashuaOk cool06:53
dashuaAny suggestions?06:53
kwwiihomosapiens caught my eye06:54
dashuaNice, yeah that is very nice.06:59
kwwiiI'll post something about that later today07:01
dashuakwwii, Ok great. :)07:08
kwwiidashua: if you are interested, I'll let you do the work and lead things and I'll back you up whenever needed07:10
dashuaOk, sounds good.  Just might need a little direction with packaging :)07:11
kwwiidashua: I'd like to see if we can get some others involved, etc07:11
kwwiimaybe we can get another theme as well07:11
kwwiiI promise I will help you and/or take care of the packaging07:11
kwwiiotherwise I'd have to do it anyway :P07:11
kwwiiit's quite simple, once you know what you are doing07:12
dashuaHow many themes do you think total?  There are 5 now.07:12
dashuaI think I'm screwing up the dch part.07:12
kwwiiwell, it might be best to stick to 5...maybe there is something we could replace07:12
dashuaIt's placing my changelog below the present one.07:12
kwwiiideally, we could have a new package every release or two07:12
kwwiiwhich editor do you use?07:13
kwwiiand are you doing "dch -i"07:13
dashuaNo just dch.07:13
kwwii-i tells it to increment the version number in a new entry07:13
dashuaMaybe that is the issue.07:13
kwwiimight be07:13
dashuaAh.  I'll try it again.  It built, but probably not correctly.07:14
kwwiiversion tracking is quite important :)07:14
dashuaYeah, still trying to get the packaging part down.07:15
kwwiithe hardest thing is not making stupid mistakes :P07:16
kwwiiI do that all the time07:16
dashuaDoes gnome-themes-ubuntu need any work too?  Update wise.07:16
kwwiibut so does everyone07:16
dashuaHa yeah.07:16
dashuaI'm assuming yes with the murrine update.07:16
kwwiignome-themes-ubuntu is probably up to date but if not we should make it so07:17
kwwiiwe are going to have to update the murrine themes in it naturally07:17
kwwiiif there are any07:17
dashuaOk, I think Dust needs to be updated.07:17
kwwiiahhh, yes...true07:17
kwwiiI hadn't given it any thought (yet)07:18
dashuaI'll take a look tomorrow.07:18
kwwiiI have a full plate atm, and things keep stacking up07:18
dashuaI understand.  I'm glad to help out where I can. :)07:18
kwwiiI think that lucid is going to be pretty cool07:18
kwwiiit's hard to see atm but I am sure we'll get there07:19
dashuaYeah, I'm digging the MeMenu thing.07:19
dashuaLots of indicator work too.07:19
dashuaSo far so, so good for me.07:20
* dashua keeps his fingers crossed07:20
kwwiilol, I hope that helps07:20
vishdashua: let me know when you get the theme started.. i'll try to do some metacity buttons for it07:20
dashuaI added Human-Lucid to the community-themes with zacbarton's new buttons.07:21
vishah , cool07:21
kwwiihrm, not sure about using that name07:21
dashuaIt's basically Human with the Homosapien buttons and a tweaked gtkrc.07:21
kwwiisounds very official07:21
kwwiiHomoHuman ?07:21
kwwiimight be better to find a more appropriate name07:22
vishkwwii: i think we have offended a lot of them in the past few days ;p07:22
dashuaI guess we can call it Homesapien as it's just a metacity theme now.07:22
kwwiiwhoever "they" are, I hope they excuse us07:22
kwwiidashua: right07:23
kwwiisabdfl saw and liked it, if that helps07:23
kwwiithen again, the author emailed him ;)07:24
kwwiiwhich automatically hits my inbox07:24
dashuaHa, I bet :)07:24
kwwiimost of the art emails sent to mark get filtered by his secratary to myself or someone else on the design team07:24
kwwiiI used to get them all, and it sucked07:25
dashuavish, zacbarton is idling here.  We were working on coming up with something.07:25
dashuaMaybe together we tweak, combine the work, and come up with one unified theme.07:26
* vish has to finish the damn N900 icon :/ [if only i had the phone i'd finish it faster ;p]07:28
dashuaOff to bed.  C ya'll tomorrow.07:28
dashuaI'l  be digging out two feet of snow tomorrow =/07:29
kwwiiI might be doing that in a few hours07:30
=== chaotic_ is now known as chaotic
jessewkwwii: I haven't managed to get a time to clarify with Ivana about the wallpaper licensing issues -- She asked if we could meet up on IRC, but it fell through, and I haven't heard back since then.  Any pointers?07:49
kwwiijessew: hrm, I guess ping her again?07:52
kwwiishe isn't up yet07:52
kwwiiI can mention something if I talk to her (she is a very busy person)07:52
kwwiijessew: what exactly do you want from her?07:55
jessewkwwii: I wanted to check what exact license she asked for when she directly spoke to people about the wallpapers, so we can put that in the package, and/or recontact anyone we got some odd license from.  She was willing to do it, but I think it just got lost in the flux of other things.08:12
kwwiiyeah, most certainly...we were on a week long sprint last week08:13
kwwiiand we are now all jet lagged :P08:13
jessewthat completely makes sense.  this is certainly NOT urgent, although it is important to get to sometime.08:16
kwwiiI'll ask later when she gets to the office08:16
kwwiifrom her first tweet this morning I don't think I want to piss her off today ;)08:16
jessewerps?  (I don't follow twitter...)08:17
kwwii"I am struggling with my mood this morning."08:17
kwwiibest to let sleeping dogs lie08:18
kwwiierm, I guess I just called her a bitch in some indirect way...BAD, BAD, BAD08:18
jessewyes, that does suggest this might be a less than good day.  If you do talk to her, please do stress that I am NOT in any hurry.08:19
kwwiiwill do08:19
kwwiisorry it seems so hard, we'll take care of it08:20
kwwiiand thanks ;)08:20
kwwiimoin thorsten08:22
thorwilmoin kenneth08:22
jessewkwwii: you are welcome; thanks for all your efforts on it.08:53
thorwilkwwii: your new COO worries me: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13505_3-10448883-16.html08:55
kwwiithorwil: hehe, yeah08:59
* vish pokes darkmatter with "read what thorwil thinks of document vs apps" stick ;p09:29
vishrather which needs to be a first level access09:30
thorwilon the gnome usability list09:31
* vish disagrees with thorwil though :)09:31
thorwilvish: on which point?09:32
vishthorwil: the "share/backup/restore" can be done from within each app , without exposing the user to the concept of filesystem   , its not necessary to expose the filesystem for those09:35
darkmattervish:  application are archaic, and hierarchical navigation is over exposed09:35
thorwilvish: if you have to grant access to all files, you end up exposing the file-system. that's the case for at least backup/restore09:36
vishthorwil: not necessarily , the filesystem hierarchy can work like a kernel , user doesnt need to be exposed to it but it just is there..09:38
darkmattervish: and the idea isn't new. even though the technology of today is higher. I can show you gui's (some highly antiquated) that if you look at how they approach managing data/activities are very much superior to what we have today, the reason they sputtered out is the same as why we don't have web convergence today09:40
thorwilvish: doesn't work once you have to know where files actually are. as is the case for backup/restore ;)09:40
darkmatterthe tchnology at the time was.. well.. not there. and many never could have guessed how effen huge the OS would become as a uber bloaty entity09:41
darkmatteryou don't need to know where the files are for backup/restore. you need to know 'wha' they are (gotta find them :P). the where can be abstracted09:42
vishthorwil: not necessarily , if i want an inkscape backup , i could just bring it from inkscape itself , and the backend does all the rest of the work.. [but I'm just giving an half-arsed response , multitasking here  :) ]09:42
vishheh , darkmatter same replies :)09:44
darkmatterhalf arsed is right :P09:44
thorwilvish: sure. if i want a backup of all my documents, i sure would like to make my way through a bitmap drawing app, a vector one, 3d, text editor ...09:45
darkmatterin the end it's about the organizational metaphor presented to the user09:45
thorwilanyway, who seriously thinks the iPad would be a good model for everything is a complete idiot :)09:46
vishipad == a bigger iphone [and apple is milking everyone twice ;p ]09:47
darkmatterthorwil: oh. it was comparing to the iPodXXL? my bad. I thought it was referring to abstracting stuff09:47
darkmattervish: no, an iPhone would still have a webcam :P09:47
vishdarkmatter: apple will introduce it in ipad v2 and make users buy again ;)09:48
thorwildarkmatter: the staring point was http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2010-February/msg00010.html09:48
thorwilstarting, even09:48
darkmatterbut regardless, if done right you do not need to expose the filesystem and applications are obsolete.09:49
darkmatterbut god no. the whole 'iClone' thing needs to die before it can be birthed09:50
thorwilyeah, that's why i said the new COO worries me. what a great addition to a mac-using design team09:52
darkmatterlol: "we're  fortunate to have people who specialize in Usability and User  Experience" <--- quit lying post-guy-whoever-you-are. cause every specialist who has *EVER* tried to help change linux has been told a "but.... it's too hard, and you're not paying us, so fuck off" sorta thing. be it ux, code, or other09:53
darkmatterthe gnome/kde/whatever guys are only interested in enlisting the aid of crack-head anal-retentive fanboi's with delusions of grandeur. well, with the exception of the guys who poorly rip of osx :P09:55
darkmatterand this whole 'open specific apps to access <blah> because that's like the real world" is a good definition of 'Crackhead" xD09:58
darkmattersince that's the complete opposite of reality. in reality you know what you want out of your stuff, and you semi-instinctively fetch it. because it's your stuff the steps in between are abstracted09:59
vishdarkmatter: the post guy is " wers "  ;)10:02
wersvish, hi10:03
werswhat's up?10:03
darkmattervish: cool10:03
vishwers: nah , nothing we were just discussing your mail to the usability ML10:03
vishwers: btw , Hi10:03
wersoh. ok cool. hehe10:04
darkmatterdamn. no coffee left. guess that means I make some darjeeling10:06
wersjust read the log. lol10:07
* darkmatter runs to kitchen before he dries of and starts flaking away10:07
* wers goes back to work10:07
* darkmatter throws legos at vish :o10:13
* thorwil hands darkmatter some duplos10:14
* vish starts building a fort 10:16
darkmattervish: once I was bored and built a BeBox out of my sons legos. :D10:18
thorwilsnowing again. nasty white matter only causing additional work12:34
zniavre_widget "new-tooltip-style"  style "murrine-tooltips"  that is good into gtkrc?12:55
thorwilthe next one will be new-new-tooltip-style?12:57
zniavre_is it possible to put the border_colors around menu itself ?13:36
zniavre_and / or notebook13:37
zniavre_http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/5087/capture1rk.png   > menus are readable this way or i can forgot this idea ?13:45
kwwiivish: so your branch fixes the bugs in both human and darkroom right?13:45
vishkwwii: yup13:46
kwwiiok, I'll take that for now. Psyke83's stuff had other changes13:46
kwwiiat least this will fix the bug for now ;)13:46
kwwiiw00t All changes applied successfully.13:48
kwwiiouch, but you borked the changelog :P13:49
kwwiivish: ok, I approved the merge, merged the branch, set teh bug to fix commited, uploaded it to my ppa13:55
kwwiivish: once it builds on the ppa and we test it once, I will ping seb and get him to upload it13:55
* vish cries13:55
kwwiitears of joy, I hope13:55
vishkwwii: was the space the problem?13:55
vishin the changelog?13:56
kwwiivish: yes, you had an extra space in two entries13:56
* vish head-desks13:56
kwwiiusing dch -i is better13:56
kwwiiI'll do the human-netbook theme now13:56
vishkwwii: that would have the same space too :( [/me still head-desking ]13:57
kwwiino worries ;)13:57
thorwilpoor desk. hope it has no dent already :)13:58
kwwiiit all depends on how hard your head is :P13:59
* thorwil leaves the his dent-less but also coffee-less desk to go where the 2nd doesn't apply14:01
darkmatterI prefer listening to soft skulls head-desk. it's quite entertaining14:01
kwwiivish: hey, can you add a panel volume icon in humanity and humanity dark which don't have *any* level indicators?14:08
vishkwwii: already there .. there was a bug ara reported,14:08
kwwiivish: can you point me to that bug?14:09
kwwiiit's for the new volume menu?14:09
vishkwwii: Humanity/status/24/stock_volume-0.svg14:09
kwwiivish: sweet, does that humanity package need to get into lucid?14:09
vishkwwii: its been there since karmic :D , but not used by the menu14:10
kwwiivish: erm, I want one without any level stuff at all14:10
* vish finds bug#14:10
kwwiiso just the speaker14:10
vishfor volume=0 right , or for a speaker14:11
kwwiilet me find the wiki page to explain14:11
kwwiivish: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoundMenu14:14
vishhmm , thats not right :(14:15
vishkwwii: compare > stock_volume-0.svg , stock_volume-max.svg if we have a speaker with bars at one end , wouldnt it require one without bars? , also gtk messes up the icon if it occupies less space14:16
vishwouldnt it require one with fewer bars*14:17
kwwiivish: we need one with no bars and with full bars...the one with no bars needs to be centered in the space14:19
vishkwwii: Bug #513714 , if the icon doesnt occupy space we already have a bit of blurriness.. , it isnt a problem doing the icon.. what name do you want it as ?14:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 513714 in gtk+2.0 "Audio volume blurry" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/51371414:21
kwwiivish: something like stock_speaker or such14:24
kwwiinot sure exactly what it should be named14:24
kwwiidid you see where it goes on that wiki page?14:24
vishkwwii: k... did mpt see the present icon? he was the one who recommended it so14:24
kwwiivish: look at that wiki page to understand where it goes first14:25
kwwiivish: and I think part of the reason that icon is blurry is because it is being scaled14:25
vishyeah , it scales , because gtk scales it , thats what upstream devs mention14:26
kwwiivish: does the icon not exist at all sizes?14:27
kwwiiand are the svg's really at the correct size for each size needed?14:27
vishit is there in the 16,22 , 24px sizes..14:28
vishkwwii: i saw the wiki icon  [but the present icon was how mpt suggested he wanted the volume=0 , maybe he forgot >  Bug #444548 ]14:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 444548 in humanity-icon-theme "Not having a muted icon for the volume applet causes confusion" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44454814:28
vishcomment #1214:28
vishkwwii: the present icon will be consistent with the notify-osd icon too14:30
kwwiivish: look at the pic on the wiki page...we need an icon for the little speaker in the drop-down14:30
kwwiimpt drew that mockup14:30
darkmatterkwwii: the problem is gtk doesn't scale consistently. it doesn't jump sizes. if you're at 23 pixel's for a panel, for example, it will scale down the 24 instead of just plugging in the 22. also it does weird crap from tray applet to tray applet. like scaling down the largest available icon instead of using one of an applicable size14:31
kwwiidarkmatter: well, that is not exactly true14:31
kwwiidarkmatter: it depends on how the theme is setup and which sizes the icons are really made at14:32
darkmatterit's a part of the trend I refer to as 'GNOME sucks"14:32
vishkwwii: hmm , i have no probs adding the new icon :)   .. but i had this discussion with mpt during karmic release.. he mentioned that the notify-osd icon and the panel icon *need* to be similar  ... i think he forgot [kindly remind him].. I'll add the icon in the mean time14:33
kwwiivish: ok, I will bring it up with him then14:33
kwwiisee what he says14:33
vishkwwii: also , when the user changes the volume , and when volume=0  , the icon in the panel wont match the icon in the drop-down14:34
darkmatterkwwii: not entirely. you can have a theme that is idealy constructed and still have issues. there's applets that try to use 48x48 on a 32 pixel panel for crying out loud. and I know for a fact the icon theme's I use have all sizes covered pixel perfect, because I'm OCD and meticulously fix things until time ends :P14:34
darkmattersome is gtk's fault, some is the fault of app(let) devs. I care not who is to blame in any specific case. just fix it ;o14:36
kwwiidarkmatter: yes, I agree14:37
kwwiivish: ok, I asked mpt ;)14:37
kwwiihe says that the 0% icon should have no waves coming out of it at all14:38
kwwiiwhereas the mute should be the same but red14:38
kwwiiso the current humanity icons need to change14:38
kwwiiactually it's not that hard really14:39
vishkwwii: red as in the speaker turns red? o.014:39
kwwiiI can do it if you don't want to or don't have the time14:39
kwwiivish: yes, again, it is all on the wiki page under "Artwork Requirements"14:39
vishkwwii: heh , not a problem.. i was just making sure :)14:39
darkmatterI like the basic volume control spec. it's kinda similar to the designs I've been working on for any 'I live in teh icon!' functions (exposing what should be exposed instead of hiding it on right-click menus14:42
darkmatteryou going to fully integrate it with pulse? (individual app sliders)14:42
kwwiiit is a main slider14:44
kwwiiif your computer has good hardare it will know when you plug in a headphone14:44
kwwiiand then it auto switches to that device14:45
kwwiiif you have shit, you get a main slider and that is all14:45
kwwiiaudiophiles (such as myself) install the pulse stuff to get full control14:45
vishkwwii: 16px icon or 24px?14:46
* vish adding now14:46
darkmatterwas just curious since some apps have inconsistent sound output14:46
kwwiivish: it will need to be at 16, 22 and 24 at least14:46
kwwiias will all the panel icons14:46
kwwiiprobably even 32 for big resolutions/high dpi14:47
kwwiibut that can wait14:47
kwwiithe ubuntu panel currently uses 22x22 icons, btw14:47
vishnot all icons ;) are 22px  , the volume is 24 and the nm is 24 :(14:48
vishthat was the problem in karmic , but yay app indicators14:48
kwwiivish: ahh, right...bad applets14:49
kwwiiI wish there was some kind of leadership in the gtk design world14:49
kwwiiok, I have a meeting in 10min, taking a short break14:50
vishkwwii: the app indicators are actually using 16px icons not 22px :(   /me wishes they used bigger icons14:50
kwwiiwell, once we get simplified icons everywhere it will look better with small icons14:50
vishkwwii: those two are in the theme now..15:10
* vish afk15:10
kwwiikiller ;)15:10
vishkwwii: dont forget to mention to mpt i was swearing at him ;p , these icons without bars where how it was earlier for low.. he insisted it to have lighter bars ;p15:12
* vish now really afk15:12
troy_sthorwil: Ping.16:55
thorwiltroy_s: gnip16:56
troy_sthorwil: That doesn't look right backwards.16:56
troy_sthorwil: How are things? Making hay?16:56
thorwiltroy_s: no. currently working on my personal wiki page, so i can apply for ubuntu membership16:57
thorwiltroy_s: that so i can get on planet ubuntu16:57
troy_sthorwil: What do you want that for?16:57
thorwiltroy_s: to talk about design thinking. added visibility16:59
troy_sthorwil: Ah.16:59
thorwilkwwii: would you be so kind to add a "testimonial" to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThorstenWilms to help me with my membership application?17:50
kwwiithorwil: naturally!17:51
kwwiiI cannot believe you don't already have membership17:51
thorwilkwwii: i don't like the idea of asking, having someone judging me. i consider myself a member by action. but now i want to have the option of reaching more people via the planet ;)17:53
kwwiithorwil: I can understand that17:53
kwwiithorwil: tell me where I should put it17:53
kwwiijust at the end?17:53
thorwilkwwii: yes, end. with a == Testimonials == heading, i guess17:54
* thorwil notes vish scheduled on the AsiaOceania board17:58
thorwilkwwii: thank you :D18:09
kwwiithorwil: you are very welcome18:10
vishthorwil: only now you are doing that o.0  ... now i'm ashamed :s  [well,another member asked me why i havent applied, so i thought why not]18:27
dashuakwwii, community-themes should be ready for review :)18:43
dashuaPlease let me know what I screwed up =/18:43
thorwilvish: pah, you have been more active since a while now and i explained the reason in my case ;p18:53
vishthorwil: hehe.. no blogs for me though ;)18:54
vishthorwil: as you are already aware , i have two left hands :D18:55
vishkwwii: around?19:59
darkmattermy current working music: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANNqr-vcx022:13
darkmatterlet us see how trippy my next design will be ;o22:13
kwwiivish: hey22:20
kwwiivish: there were some problems with the version changes in the theme packages22:20
kwwiibut seb uploaded them anyway22:20
kwwiithe bzr history and such22:20
darkmatterthe  rant in the middle is funny, and awesome22:41

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