[00:03] <niko> no ops alive ?
[00:04] <tsimpson> there we go
[05:23] <bazhang> looks like he was just waiting to start up again when he thought no on was watching the channel (by_your_command)
[05:23] <bazhang> err no one
[07:26] <jussi01> O/
[08:36] <ikonia> assistance in -women
[08:40] <Tm_T> see bactas realname
[08:40] <bazhang> yikes
[08:41] <Tm_T> anyone who has time, you might like to have word with him about that
[08:42]  * Tm_T goes back lurking
[08:43] <ikonia> Tm_T: it's been like that for ages
[08:43] <ikonia> it's "ok"
[08:43] <ikonia> it's a play on Arnolds Schatzanager's name
[08:43] <ikonia> it doesn't say "fuck" or "nigger" despite implying it
[08:43] <ikonia> this is what annoys me, the constant pushing of the limit
[08:47] <mneptok> ikonia: i hope you don't plan on having kids ;)
[08:47] <ikonia> nope
[08:47] <ikonia> I'm covered
[08:48] <Tm_T> mneptok: ah, how that differs from IRC? (;
[08:48] <Tm_T> ikonia: I don't think it's "ok" until that comes from -women team too ):
[08:49] <ikonia> Tm_T: how can it not be, it doesn't have anything actually offensive in it
[08:49] <ikonia> it's just an implication
[08:50] <Tm_T> I don't think it's that simple
[08:51] <ikonia> I don't see why not. Is the name offensive or abusive, no, can't do anything
[08:51] <ikonia> (can't believe I'm defending this)
[08:52] <nigel_nb> A user named  Speedy1 (~Speedy@bzq-79-180-18-85.red.bezeqint.net) seems to be cross-posting spam in various channels
[08:52] <Tm_T> ikonia: we cant have a word? I'm not suggesting any heavy measures
[08:53] <bazhang> nigel_nb, thanks freenode staff have been apprised
[08:53] <nigel_nb> ah. thanks :)
[08:53] <ikonia> informed staff
[08:53] <ikonia> Tm_T: what do you suggest we say, "Hi, you've got a real name that if you re-arrange the letters and substitue others for them spells out a reacist comment"
[08:54] <ikonia> Tm_T: I know what you're saying, and I agree with it, but how much effort goes into policing this guy ????
[08:54] <Tm_T> ikonia: indeed
[08:54] <ikonia> would you ask my to change my real name if it was zexygurl
[08:54] <mneptok> Tm_T: if you ban your children from your channel, you get arrested.
[08:55] <Tm_T> mneptok: hrr, have to invite them back then
[08:55]  * Tm_T hides
[08:55]  * MenZa fervently points to freenode.net/catalysts.shtml
[08:55] <Tm_T> MenZa: indeed, that is very good article
[08:56] <MenZa> it's a very good document to use.
[08:56] <ikonia> come on , the guy is a massive known network issue
[08:56] <ikonia> are you really suggesting that after 1000000+ bans in multiple channels we need to try harder to catalyst with him ?
[08:57] <MenZa> I can't say I know who we're talking about, specifically
[08:57]  * MenZa reads up
[08:57] <ikonia> mneptok: bacta
[08:57] <ikonia> and his suggestive real name
[08:57] <MenZa> ...Bacta?
[08:57] <MenZa> oH.
[08:57] <MenZa> oh.*
[08:57] <MenZa> He's... a pretty lost cause.
[08:57] <mneptok> ikonia: uh ... why are you pointing me at this?
[08:57]  * MenZa slaps mneptok 
[08:57] <ikonia> mneptok: because I'm a moron typer
[08:57] <MenZa> :D
[08:57] <bazhang> haha
[08:57] <topyli> the realname is offensive and stupid, and not his real name i'm sure, if you ask me. please don't ask me :)
[08:58] <mneptok> ikonia: just wondering if i missed something :)
[08:58] <ikonia> topyli: I agree, but drawing attention to it just feeds him
[08:58] <ikonia> the guy can't behave in ANY channel, and constantly pushes the limit,
[08:58] <MenZa> well, you can't really force people to set REALNAME="Real Name"
[08:58] <MenZa> :p
[08:58] <topyli> MenZa, you can ask them to not set reaname=fugganigah
[08:58] <ikonia> topyli: why ?
[08:58] <bazhang> honestly, if it's outside of #ubuntu channels, just ignore him.
[08:58] <mneptok> the realname was chosen to feed his need for attention. i suggest we deny him that need.
[08:59] <MenZa> It's in #ubuntu though.
[08:59] <MenZa> mneptok: +1
[08:59] <ikonia> bazhang: ubuntu #ubuntu-women
[08:59] <Tm_T> bazhang: he is in ubuntu channels...
[08:59] <ikonia> topyli: there is nothing offensive about it in real wording
[08:59] <bazhang> if inside, and he is disruptive, then ban and remove.
[08:59] <MenZa> If we receive complaints about it, then I say we jump into action.
[08:59] <topyli> fine then
[08:59] <ikonia> maybe its time the council look at blanket banning this guy
[08:59] <Tm_T> MenZa: did I just complain?
[08:59] <ikonia> the ammount of effort to police him is beyond stupid
[08:59] <MenZa> Tm_T: I don't know, did you?
[08:59] <bazhang> ikonia, well let the ops there ban him.
[08:59] <Tm_T> MenZa: I kind of did (:
[08:59] <ikonia> bazhang: so should I ban him in #ubuntu ?
[09:00] <ikonia> for having a name that maybe if you re-arrange the latters may be racist
[09:00] <bazhang> ikonia, is he misbehaving there? or is this the ident issue
[09:00] <ikonia> bazhang: ident
[09:00] <MenZa> Eh, /abrn Please re-consider your choice of REALNAME
[09:00] <MenZa> ?
[09:00] <ikonia> bazhang: I don't think he should be banned for that
[09:00] <ikonia> MenZa: why ?
[09:00] <bazhang> ikonia, nor do I
[09:00] <ikonia> MenZa: it's nothing rude or offensive as it is
[09:00] <MenZa> It seems like a pretty silly thing to ban for, it's just stupid.
[09:00] <ikonia> MenZa: it just suggests rude/offensive
[09:00] <MenZa> So I'm going with mneptok's solution.
[09:01] <MenZa> If any of the users in #u start complaining, then we step into action.
[09:01] <ikonia> best option
[09:01] <bazhang> there are tons of those. too time-consuming to check every single users ident and PM/ etc
[09:01] <ikonia> but this raises the question again of how much effort we are taking to police this guy
[09:01]  * MenZa throttles Tm_T 
[09:01] <MenZa> Tm_T: Far too much is the answer.
[09:03] <MenZa> Chances are he'll want more attention later on, and do something we can ban him for properly.
[09:03] <ikonia> I'm not looking to provoke a ban
[09:03] <bazhang> no one suggested that
[09:04] <ikonia> I'm looking at discussion about his overall presense in any of the channels
[09:04] <bazhang> madpilot's policy seems the best here
[09:04] <Tm_T> bazhang: mneptok you mean?
[09:04] <bazhang> Tm_T, madpilot
[09:05] <Tm_T> btw, are you aware that his mere presence makes people uncomfortable? all due to his history
[09:05] <Tm_T> I know it keeps me in full alert
[09:05] <bazhang> users? or ops
[09:05] <Tm_T> both
[09:05] <MenZa> mneptok breaks tabcomplete.
[09:05] <Tm_T> I'm ok having him other channels, but NOT in -women TBH
[09:06] <ikonia> Tm_T: very aware
[09:06] <bazhang> he knows the rules. very simple.
[09:06] <ikonia> Tm_T: hence why I'm looking for discussion about tthe name space
[09:06] <ikonia> bazhang: and he constantly breaks/pushes them
[09:06] <Tm_T> ikonia: me too, actually
[09:06] <bazhang> ikonia, and he is subsequently banned from those channels, such as #ubuntu-offtopic
[09:07] <Tm_T> bazhang: but if his presence is problem? if he doesn't do any mistakes in this particular channel? so the ones with uneasiness should just tolerate it?
[09:07] <MenZa> ikonia: About namespace-wide bans?
[09:07] <ikonia> bazhang: he's only banned from #ubuntu-offtopic as other bans keep getting lifted for "another chance" and here we are again discussing him as an issue
[09:07] <Tm_T> MenZa: we don't have any clear policy even
[09:07] <MenZa> Tm_T: I know. So bring it up at a meeting.
[09:07] <MenZa> There's one in three days.
[09:08] <MenZa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda?action=show&redirect=IrcTeam/IrcCouncil/MeetingAgenda
[09:08] <Tm_T> MenZa: one of my plans, if I have time (:)
[09:08] <MenZa> Well, I'll be around for the meeting, so if you add it, let me know if you want me to start the discussion up
[09:08] <MenZa> Alternatively, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcCouncil/IRCteamproposal
[09:08] <ikonia> adding to agenda
[09:08] <Tm_T> ikonia: thanks
[09:09] <Tm_T> I want clear policy how handle people with 1000+th chance
[09:10] <christel> may i suggest murder?
[09:10] <MenZa> hahahaha
[09:11] <bazhang> yikes. quick! erase the logs!
[09:11] <ikonia> updated
[09:11] <MenZa> christel: are the attacks dying down recently, or are you just getting better at K-training them?
[09:11] <MenZa> ikonia: good good
[09:11] <christel> MenZa: looks to me like they're going up
[09:12] <bazhang> MenZa, you must not idle in #freenode then
[09:12] <christel> they're just wasting less project time and focusing on #freenode for some reason
[09:12] <christel> which is quite alright, better its #freenode than say #ubuntu :)
[09:14] <bazhang> multiple trolls in #kubuntu
[09:15] <ikonia> Tm_T: has them
[09:15] <Tm_T> if I have time, I'm babysitting
[09:15] <bazhang> yep :)
[09:16] <ikonia> Tm_T: I will keep an eye on #k
[09:17] <MenZa> bazhang: I do, I just don't look at it much
[09:30] <Myrtti> christel: your joy was a bit premature
[10:10] <Lanlost> Hi, can someone tell me why I was banned from #ubuntu. Regardless of if the reason is a legitimate reason or not, I didn't see it.
[10:10] <bazhang> Lanlost, did you see the topic in #ubuntu-read-topic ?
[10:10] <Lanlost> I'm just curious because I was coding and I switched to my irc client and I was no longer in the channel.
[10:10] <Lanlost> ah
[10:10] <Lanlost> Right, I'll check it out. Thank you =)
[10:10] <bazhang> bot attack
[10:10] <Myrtti> irony of the channel name
[10:11] <Lanlost> heh
[10:11] <Lanlost> bot attack making people mass quit/rejoin?
[10:11] <Lanlost> I'm assuming it is something like that
[10:11] <bazhang> what port are you using for freenode
[10:12] <Myrtti> yeah. though our method of educating people and having Ubuntu clients use a correct port by default has assisted in weeding the quits/rejoins
[10:15] <Lanlost> hrm
[10:15] <Lanlost> I remember joining #ubuntu before and being forwarded to #ubuntu-read-topic
[10:16] <Lanlost> but it never said I was banned from #ubuntu before or after forwarding me to that channel
[10:16] <Lanlost> but give me a sec and I'll do what I need to do there
[10:16] <Myrtti> might have been the old ircd
[10:16] <Lanlost> my internet connection went up and down a few times and I have it auto join #ubuntu among a few other channels. It may have just looked like I'm having that problem. Regardless, I'll do the steps again
[10:17] <bazhang> ok :)
[10:17] <Lanlost> I was screwing around with my router the other day because someone was trying to send me something over DCC and you know how that can be.
[10:17] <bazhang> which client
[10:17] <Lanlost> No matter what I did, it wouldn't work. Turned out I had the ports forwarded fine, it was him but who knows what I did when I was desperate
[10:17] <Lanlost> xchat
[10:18] <bazhang> set ignore on dcc ctcp then
[10:18] <Lanlost> hah, I had auto accept on.
[10:18] <Lanlost> That's right, once we finally got it working I was on the verge of going to bed so I set DCC to auto accept.
[10:19] <Lanlost> sorry for spamming, I know no one else is chatting in here really but I don't want to aid in the prevention of it.
[10:19] <Lanlost> alright, let me reconnect on 8001
[10:21] <Lanlost> Can you do a test on me manually
[10:22] <Lanlost> I was already on 8001
[10:24] <Myrtti> there you go
[10:24] <bazhang> Lanlost, you should be able to join now
[10:24] <Myrtti> you can join now
[10:25] <Lanlost> Awesome
[10:25] <bazhang> :)
[10:25] <Lanlost> Yeah, I didn't see the "test me" thing at first.
[10:25] <bazhang> heh
[10:25] <Lanlost> So what happens for that to take effect though? As a programmer I'm just curious of how it works.
[10:25] <Lanlost> I figured I was mass-rejoining or something.
[10:25] <bazhang> the dcc exploit I am guessing
[10:25] <Lanlost> Do you guys just randomly send out one of those malformed dcc packets and if its accepted you kick/ban them?
[10:26] <bazhang> not us sending them
[10:26] <Lanlost> Hrm.
[10:26] <MenZa> Lanlost: Alas, if we did, your internets might die a horrible death.
[10:26] <MenZa> And we don't want that!
[10:26] <Lanlost> Well, technically if I was affected by the exploit I shouldn't have been able to get in there at all right?
[10:26] <Myrtti> you need to quit within certain timeframe after the attack, the bots banforward you to the -read-topic channel
[10:26] <Myrtti> (need to quit with a certain quit message)
[10:26] <Lanlost> I was in the channel for hours and then all of a sudden I looked and I wasn't in half my channels anymore but the only one I couldn't rejoin was #ubuntu
[10:27] <MenZa> Aye; we try to educate our users instead of allowing it to happen to them repeatedly.
[10:27] <Lanlost> Ah, see, I'm used to being sent to the -read-topic channel immediately, or so it seems.
[10:27] <MenZa> Seems to be a much better solution :)
[10:27] <Lanlost> I didn't even know you could force someone to join a different channel. I find that so weird.
[10:27] <MenZa> Well, it makes sense.
[10:27] <Lanlost> Unless you have to have some kind of one-on-one setup with the server or something.
[10:27] <MenZa> You can ignore it on your user, but I wouldn't recommend it.
[10:27] <Lanlost> No, I mean I've ran channels before and I never remember seeing that option.
[10:27] <Myrtti> when we didn't have the automation, the attacks were daily, almost hourly, and it really disturbed the channel
[10:28] <MenZa> It was available on the old ircd as well as the new one. It's always been there. Before, you'd /mode +b *!*@host!#channel-to-forward-to
[10:28] <Lanlost> Are these the attacks that I see sometimes when I wake up and have like 300 dcc file transfers being attempted?
[10:28] <MenZa> I don't recall how it is now
[10:28] <Myrtti> now that the education/default settings have kicked in, even the trolls have started to realise the channel isn't as fun anymore
[10:28] <Lanlost> So annoying, this was months ago but it happened when I slept and every morning I woke up to it.
[10:28] <Lanlost> Not to mention, a lot of times I had important stuff going on on my computer and/or in irc and I could never read the logs because I had to force quit xchat
[10:29] <Myrtti> no, the file transfers usually are a different troll mechanism
[10:29] <Lanlost> There is only so long I will click every single "do you accept" dialog box. Especially when I can't click "yes to all" or do anything while they are on the screen.
[10:29] <Lanlost> Well I appreciate it really. I guess It interests me because I've never seen it done this way before.
 loquitus, just download a torrent of the movie and play it, works great
[10:30] <ikonia> I'll speak to him
[10:30] <Lanlost> From my experience though, no matter what you do there will always be other problems though. Keeping people who are affected by this exploit doesn't stop people (like me, unfortunately) from spamming, or being assholes or whatever.
[10:31] <Lanlost> I'm really sorry I type so much and so fast. I've had this problem for years. The channel I created people bitched about it. I try not to do it in channels like #ubuntu though for obvious reasons. It's not really chat.
[10:31] <Myrtti> true, but atleast the exploit isn't that bad anymore
[10:31] <MenZa> Lanlost: That's why we're here -- and watch your language; Big Brother (and younger brothers!) is watching.
[10:31] <Lanlost> On that note, I'll shut up and let you guys get back to business. Thank you though. Just had to know what was going on.
[10:31] <Myrtti> no probs, nice talking to you
[10:31] <Lanlost> Point taken.
[10:31]  * MenZa bows.
[10:32] <Lanlost> I've reached some milestones in coding in the last few hours so I'm in a happy chit chatty mood. Hence all the talking.
[10:32] <Lanlost> Alright, see ya.
[10:32] <MenZa> Well, #ubuntu-offtopic is open for business :)
[10:32] <Myrtti> tata :-)
[10:32] <Lanlost> Ah, didn't know it existed. Toodaloo.
[10:41] <bazhang> indus feels that continuing when asked to stop is 'self-moderation'
[10:42] <MenZa> Well, indus should know that he's breaking network policy, and might see himself on the K-train soon.
[10:43] <bazhang> he feels that being removed when being asked to stop is 'insulting to users' and he is right to self-moderate, that I should enjoy my 'power trip'
[10:46] <MenZa> bazhang: well, if he keeps it up, perhaps he needs a bit of a talking in here.
[10:46] <MenZa> indus, while a good contributor, is no higher in the ladder than others :)
[10:46] <bazhang> MenZa, well up is down in his view. he has had talks in here before to no avail.
[10:47] <MenZa> Aye, I'm aware.
[10:47] <bazhang> his PM suggested: I need to learn how to read, am on a power trip, and he is free to 'self-moderate' in all instances.
[10:48] <MenZa> Then I suggest he's brought in here for the remainder of the discussion
[10:48] <ikonia> bazhang: this conversation has been had 100 times with him
[10:48] <bazhang> ikonia, yep
[10:48] <ikonia> self moderation excuse is his get out of jail free card
[10:48] <ikonia> he's used it tons of times
[10:48] <MenZa> "self-moderation" is fine, as long as your standards are higher than those of others moderating you :)
[10:49] <bazhang> continuing when asked to stop is somehow not continuing if its self moderation
[10:49] <bazhang> MenZa, that's the point: he rejects the channels rules out of hand.
[10:49] <MenZa> bazhang: Then he has no place in it.
[10:49] <MenZa> End of story.
[10:50] <MenZa> We don't operate on a karma system.
[10:50] <ikonia> bazhang: I'd put him on a week's ban personally, because actual no access to the channel is the only thing that changes his behaviour
[10:50] <ikonia> I know that may sound harsh, but it's the same loop with this guy
[10:51] <MenZa> I'd agree with ikonia.
[10:51] <MenZa> His support is admirable, but he needs to learn how to operate under the channel rules.
[10:51] <bazhang> ikonia, lets see if our intervention has had any effect in the near term; if not then I agree
[10:52] <bazhang> MenZa, yes, to the karma situation, he does a ton of offtopic nonsense with the support
[10:52] <MenZa> bazhang: We can't give him any more slack than any other person in #u, though
[10:52] <MenZa> offtopic -> !offtopic -> warn -> /remove -> /ban (throw in a couple of PMs)
[10:53] <bazhang> he is pushing it right now
[10:53] <MenZa> aye
[10:54] <bazhang> incoming
[10:54] <indus> hi
[10:54] <indus> i wanted to know about dodgy stuff on the wiki
[10:54] <bazhang> indus, what is the nature of asking about piracy now when you were asked to stop in #ubuntu
[10:54] <indus> not about irc, iam asking about the wiki pages
[10:55] <indus> who regulates it i mean
[10:55] <indus> there is some questionable stuff there i feel
[10:55] <indus> bazhang, also , i want to make it clear ,iam not asking this to argue about the ban at all, hope to clear that point
[10:56] <indus> i 100 % agree with the wrning
[10:56] <bazhang> indus, it was not a ban.
[10:56] <indus> i mean mild kick
[10:56] <bazhang> indus, let me explain something clearly
[10:56] <Tm_T> indus: the related team is the best direction when talking about wiki
[10:56] <bazhang> indus, there is no self-moderation by yourself
[10:56] <indus> well bazhang i think i was suggested by one of the ops here about self moderation
[10:57] <indus> nvm i change that topic
[10:57] <indus> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/BluRayAndHDDVD
[10:57] <bazhang> indus, who was that
[10:57] <indus> in this link , there is definitely questionable content i thought
[10:57] <bazhang> indus, lets be 100 percent clear on this
[10:57] <indus> bazhang, why are you still on that ? can we drop it?
[10:57] <indus> oh man
[10:57] <MenZa> indus: It's legal to rip videos for your personal use in Denmark, at least.
[10:57] <bazhang> Gryphon4, hi how can we help you
[10:58] <bazhang> indus, hold on a second
[10:58] <MenZa> indus: As is it in many parts of the world.
[10:58] <indus> guys iam not mad , iam not angry , iam not arguing,
[10:58] <indus> will you just help me out here
[10:58] <MenZa> Gryphon4: How may I be of assistance today?
[10:58] <Gryphon4> sorry:).
[10:59] <indus> i was just referring a bluray/dvd how to page on the community docs, but a lot of ripping , decrypting etc is given there
[10:59] <bazhang> indus, then you understand there is no 'self-moderation' by yourself in #ubuntu .
[10:59] <MenZa> To answer your other question, indus, the scribes team manages the wiki.
[11:00] <indus> bazhang, i consider it a helpful gesture to the ops but i dont think you agree with that
[11:00] <indus> many a times , a user (me too ) might step on questionable content
[11:00] <bazhang> indus, I don't understand your answer; is that a Yes?
[11:00] <indus> but i like to correct my mistakes
[11:01] <indus> frankly i dont understand the logic of what you are saying
[11:01] <indus> MenZa, thanks
[11:01] <bazhang> indus, when you are asked to stop, ie offtopic, suggesting piracy and others, then simply stop, no self-moderation (ie continuing) involved
[11:01] <indus> bazhang, i did stop
[11:02] <MenZa> Different jurisdictions have different laws, indus. We try to accomodate that of course, but piracy is most definitely illegal in most parts of the world, and it's prohibited by several international treaties.
[11:02] <MenZa> indus: If you have an issue with any of the content on the wiki, contact the scribes team. I'd even suggest it might be a good idea to formulate a policy of where the line in the grey zone is cut off
[11:02] <indus> MenZa, yes of course,iam not a pirate and i try to get people arrested for selling bootleg copies here
[11:02] <indus> true story
[11:02] <bazhang> indus, so we are clear then. no self-moderation outside of the channels rules and guidelines.
[11:02] <indus> bazhang, 'outside of the channel rules' yes that i agree
[11:03] <MenZa> indus: If in doubt, ask in #ubuntu-irc-helpers!
[11:03] <bazhang> indus, okay. then we are 100 percent clear now.
[11:03] <MenZa> Huzzah :)
[11:03] <indus> bazhang,I was always clear on this , you dont believe me that s all
[11:03] <indus> :D
[11:03] <bazhang> stop=stop
[11:04] <indus> you repeat yourself too much
[11:04] <bazhang> no need for further warnings or discussion then.
[11:04] <indus> cant say
[11:04] <bazhang> ?
[11:04] <indus> feel free to warn me
[11:05] <indus> bye
[11:05] <bazhang> no need. you know the rules.
[11:05] <indus> yes, i do and i also have signed the coc
[11:05] <indus> not sure if that is relevant here
[11:05] <bazhang> that is good.
[11:05] <bazhang> 100% clear then
[11:05] <MenZa> \o/
[11:05] <indus> there are many more nice things but ill chare it with you folks later :)
[11:05] <indus> share
[11:06] <indus> *surprise*
[11:06] <indus> so how is the weather in wherever you are ?
[11:07] <indus> ok no reply? well, bye then and thanks for your patience
[11:07]  * MenZa is speaking in botlanguage in #u
[11:07] <MenZa> :\
[11:51]  * elky dreams of the day we can make that guy change his nick. (re: keakulani in #u-w)
[11:52] <jussi01> elky: ?
[11:58] <elky> jussi01, google "kea kulani"
[11:58] <elky> jussi01, and tell me if that sounds appropriate for a nick for a guy to use in a women-in-tech channel.
[11:59] <elky> (or anyone for that matter, it's just waaaaaaaaay creepier from a guy)
[11:59] <jussi01> oh thats not so nice.
[11:59] <elky> yeah.
[11:59] <jussi01> elky: so whats wrong with just asking him/her to change it?
[11:59] <elky> it's right up there with "kamultow"
[11:59] <elky> jussi01, he's been asked.
[11:59] <jussi01> you could have mention nsfw though
[12:00] <jussi01> elky: and?
[12:00] <elky> jussi01, oh sorry.
[12:00] <elky> jussi01, and he plays dumb.
[12:08] <elky> OH MY GOD IT WORKED!
[12:09] <Tm_T> I think this same conversation has been done with him earlier too, though
[12:09] <elky> We have been trying for this for... months.
[12:09] <elky> Tm_T, *for months*
[12:09] <Tm_T> elky: my dejavu comes from years, though I cannot remember anything specifics, just the feeling
[12:13] <elky> Well, it hasn't worked yet. :(
[12:13] <Tm_T> I didn't want to spoil your fun by stating that (:
[12:26] <ikonia> elky: you've still got ops in #ubuntu-women, who else ?
[12:26] <elky> ikonia, hypa7ia, a few othres
[12:26] <elky> the typical access list thing should work
[12:26] <ikonia> elky: fair point
[12:27] <Tm_T> indeed
[12:27] <Tm_T>  /msg chanserv access #ubuntu-women list
[12:27] <Tm_T> as a reminder (:
[12:27] <ikonia> elky: can you hang around for a moment I need to grab another ubuntu women op,
[12:27] <ikonia> elky: I'd like a few if possible
[12:27] <ikonia> Tm_T: you too please
[12:27] <ikonia> jussi01: also as you're active and council, are you awake please
[12:28] <ikonia> (you appear active in -women)
[12:28] <elky> ikonia, it's like 6am hypa7ia time.
[12:28] <Tm_T> ikonia: please for what?
[12:28] <ikonia> ok, I'll be quick
[12:29] <pleia2> not everyone agrees that they should change their name, since it's not obviously offensive
[12:29] <ikonia> basically I've had bacta pm'ing me discussing his ban in #ubuntu-offtopic, I don't believe it was really about getting his ban removed, but that's not the issue
[12:29] <ikonia> his last comment basically is an attempt to bait myself and elky about his idling in #ubuntu-women to try to actually cause a problem
[12:29] <ikonia> I'd basically like this user removed from the channel and possibly from other channels until the ubuntu-irc-council meeting where we can discuss this persistant behaviour
[12:30] <ikonia> his last comment
[12:30] <pleia2> bacta?
[12:30] <ikonia> #ubuntu-women was not mentioned
[12:30] <ikonia> yes
[12:30] <ikonia> 11:11 <Bacta> the funniest bit is neither you or elky can do a damned thing about me  being in #ubuntu-women :P
[12:30]  * pleia2 nods
[12:30] <ikonia> he's basically trying to provoke elky
[12:30] <elky> He's been asked numerous times in PM by me to vacate the channel due to how he's harrassed folks there elsewhere in the past.
[12:30] <pleia2> yeah, he's been on our watch list because he's been a problem elsewhere in womens spaces
[12:30] <ikonia> elky: I know that, but the fact that he's pm'ing me out of the blue to almost "brag" abou ti is enough
[12:30] <elky> I'm not game to op in #ubuntu-women because of how laura reacts.
[12:31] <ikonia> I'd do it myself and take the fall for it as I'm dont with this sort of beahviour in ANY ubuntu channel
[12:31] <elky> As demonstrated tonight.
[12:31] <jussi01> has bacta done anything in the channel thats an issue?
[12:31] <pleia2> jussi01: nope
[12:31] <ikonia> no-one mentioned -women yet he feels the need to brag about upsetting people
[12:31] <elky> jussi01, he's there as a taunt.
[12:31] <elky> jussi01, *purely* as a taunt.
[12:31] <ikonia> which he's just admited
[12:31] <ikonia> jussi01: thank you for waking up
[12:31] <ikonia> he has made inappropriate comments
[12:32] <ikonia> eg: are we discussing what women look like
[12:32] <ikonia> but I'm fed up of his intention of being a problem in ANY ubuntu channel
[12:32] <jussi01> ikonia: Im in the middle of a lot of work stuff atm.
[12:32] <ikonia> that sort of thing
[12:32] <ikonia> jussi01: understood
[12:33] <elky> Um, i'm not sure what to make of keakulani's new nick.
[12:33] <elky> It's not a nsfw google, but it's... um... still not really right.
[12:33] <pleia2> I don't understand why that one is offensive either
[12:34] <elky> belly dancers.
[12:34] <elky> pleia2, keakulani isn't there for ubuntu, he's there for the chicks. he's admitted as much in the past.
[12:34] <pleia2> ah, I didn't see that
[12:35] <elky> he doesn't even use ubuntu, he's there because there's women in the channel
[12:35] <pleia2> I even thought they were a female for a long time, since they told me they "wanted help from other women"
[12:36] <pleia2> I'll have a word with him
[12:36] <ikonia> 08:37 < Bacta> Are you commenting on the looks of the women in here?
[12:36] <ikonia> same thing
[12:37] <ikonia> he knows that's not the case
[12:37] <ikonia> it's just to provoke response
[12:37] <ikonia> and as you can see from the pm he sent me, bragging about it
[12:38] <ikonia> at what point are we going to actually stop this, and thus stop this sort of round and round discussion
[12:38] <Tm_T> ikonia: pretty much grepping him from logs tells what he's up to
[12:38] <ikonia> Tm_T: agreed
[12:38] <ikonia> the pm mocking elky about it just getting stupid now
[12:38] <elky> Tm_T, yeah, he's as transparent as a mud brick wall.
[12:39] <elky> he hasn't actually PMd me for days.
[12:39] <ikonia> he started with me under the veil of getting his -ot ban removed, then when I said no he started with this line of mocking
[12:40] <ikonia> I don't care personally about him doing this as it's water of a ducks back, but if he's causing problems in community channels for a fun or to to get back at one of two of the operator staff - then it's wrong and it needs to stop
[12:42] <elky> He's not stupid. He knows i'm scared to defend that channel because of the reactions I get.
[12:42] <ikonia> elky: which is why I asked for some of the other -u-w staff to be more aware of what he's doing, plus this isn't just about -u-w as I was discussing before
[12:43] <ikonia> it's taking too much effort to police this guy and it causes too much distruption
[12:43] <ikonia> he doesn't want to use ubuntu/part of the community, he wants to be a problem (see other channels banning him) and it's too common in ubuntu
[12:44] <elky> It's common in ubuntu because our own policies are trapping us in to it. instinct and experience is trumped these days.
[12:45] <ikonia> elky: one of the reasons I'm raising it here, and I've put it on the agenda for the council meeting
[12:46] <ikonia> that said, based on his pm to me, I personally feel it's appropriate to remove him from #ubuntu-women (unless the ubuntu-women ops disagree) based on the fact that his only reason to be there is to make another user (at least one with elky) uncomfortable
[12:46] <ikonia> that's not the spirit of the channel,
[12:47] <ikonia> if the #u-w ops are comortable with him being there, then it will wait until the council meeting, but I wasn't aware how much they knew of the tricks being played against a genuine member (at least 1)
[12:47] <elky> I want him gone months ago.
[12:47] <pleia2> thanks ikonia, I'll talk to some of the other ops
[12:47] <ikonia> pleia2: thanks,
[12:47] <pleia2> we have removed users in the past for harassing our members
[12:47] <elky> He's getting back at me in any way he can for having spent all that time catalysing him
[12:48] <ikonia> pleia2: I'll be raising it with the council for the whole name space this weekend, but I wasn't sure how much you/other ops where aware of his intentions, to be honest I wasn't fully aware until he pm'd me mocking me / elky about it
[12:48] <pleia2> ikonia: we've been keeping an eye on him, but haven't felt he's actually crossed any lines in the channel itself so he's been able to stay
[12:49] <ikonia> pleia2: hopefully now you have an idea of his actual reasoning
[12:49] <pleia2> eh, we knew he was there to provoke, I think mostly we just thought he'd get bored and go away, hopefully no one is actually engaging him in PM there
[12:50] <pleia2> he gets a rise out of getting a response, we didn't want to feed that with a removal when his behavior hadn't become a problem there
[12:50] <elky> Who knows who he's PMing
[12:51] <pleia2> I haven't heard complaints, I usually do for serial troublemakers
[12:51] <ikonia> well....there you go, there is one now
[12:51]  * pleia2 nods
[12:51] <ikonia> he's pm'd me suggesting he's there to make elky and myself (????) feel uncomfortable
[12:53] <elky> he knows it's irritating all the linuxchix regulars who are there
[12:54] <ikonia> thank you pleia2 I'll leave it with you guys to resolve,
[12:54] <pleia2> thanks ikonia
[13:02] <ikonia> hi jeffc91
[15:36]  * genii sips
[15:37] <genii> Bah
[15:45] <MenZa> genii: Bahhh
[15:46]  * genii slides MenZa a large penguin-shaped mug of strong coffee
[15:46] <MenZa> Ooh.
[15:46]  * MenZa bows.
[15:46] <MenZa> How's genii?
[15:48] <genii> MenZa: Sore, after shovelling sidewalks :) Otherwise slightly undercaffeinated but OK. Work is strangely busy today.
[15:51] <MenZa> genii: Fun, fun.
[15:53] <ikonia> hey it's jack sparrow !
[17:27] <genii> Heh. The /topic of ##church-of-loudbot makes me want to amend !caps to mention it.... (but i won't of course)
[18:43]  * MenZa eyes genii 
[18:44]  * genii winks
[19:52]  * genii makes another pot of coffee, distributes the mugs
[21:06] <Myrtti> has the stupidity hit the fan again?
[21:06] <ikonia> yes
[21:06] <Myrtti> I'm so disappointed I can't do anything but cry
[21:07] <MenZa> He didn't actually :\
[21:07] <Myrtti> apart from giving the idiots the idea?
[21:08] <jpds> Who, what, where?
[21:08] <Myrtti> [23:05] < Seveas> /exec -o cowsay amoooooooosing
[21:08] <Myrtti> in -offtopic
[21:08] <Myrtti> and so, the idiots did that.
[21:08] <Myrtti> twice.
[21:08] <jpds> Haha.
[21:09] <jpds> ikonia: I think he wanted the "O" to be a "U".
[21:09] <ikonia> agreed
[21:11] <ikonia> hello arand
[21:12] <arand> Was just wondering what would be the outcome of my ubottu proposal..
[21:12] <ikonia> the pae one ?
[21:12] <arand> mhm.
[21:12] <ikonia> arand: that one ?
[21:12] <SpaceGhostC2C> Hey, something silly happened in the #ubuntu-offtopic channel.
[21:13] <Myrtti> arand: we've not had time to review it yet at all
[21:13] <ikonia> what's the issue
[21:13] <Myrtti> SpaceGhostC2C: can you hold that thought for a while
[21:13] <SpaceGhostC2C> Myrtti, yes.
[21:13] <Myrtti> thanks :-)
[21:14] <Myrtti> arand: looks like a good factoid, however it might need a bit more chewing from us. Is it really needed? what's the general opinion?
[21:14] <arand> Yea, I know, I was just interested if there was any discussion of it (just submitted it)
[21:14] <Myrtti> no, there hasn't been any discussion yet, as there's a lot of activity on the channels right now that we're attending to
[21:14] <ikonia> arand: there will be discussion, it looks pretty reasonable
[21:15] <arand> I realise, maybe not the best reason for me idling in here though...
[21:15] <jpds> I'm pretty sure PAE was in before 9.10.
[21:16] <ikonia> me too
[21:16] <Myrtti> yeah
[21:16] <ikonia> but only the serve rkernel, 9.04 it came in in the desktop
[21:16] <Myrtti> perhaps this should be continued in -irc as it seems to already?
[21:16] <arand> jpds: Yes, through the -server kernels, but I wonder if it should be mentioned..
[21:18] <Myrtti> how about it?
[21:19] <arand> sure, as you can tell I'm not completely in on the procedures :)
[21:19] <Myrtti> I how about on Desktop from Jaunty forwards
[21:19] <Myrtti> onwards, even
[21:22] <Myrtti> ok, moving the factoid conversation to #ubuntu-irc
[21:22] <Myrtti> there you go
[21:22] <Myrtti> SpaceGhostC2C: mic is yours
[21:22] <topyli> now there's a subject i know nothing about (pae)
[21:24] <SpaceGhostC2C> We were just playing and funkyHat said something I did was amusing, and I replied amoosing. Seveas replied /exec -o cowsay amoooooooosing
[21:25] <SpaceGhostC2C> Then funkyhat spammed with this, http://paste.ubuntu.com/373502/
[21:25] <topyli> right. then cowsayers were removed, except i removed seveas and missed funkyhat
[21:26] <SpaceGhostC2C> Ikanobori did almost the same.
[21:26] <topyli> i removed ikanobori too, yes
[21:27] <SpaceGhostC2C> Then here's the list of kicks and the like, plus a juicy tidbit from Seveas http://paste.ubuntu.com/373503/
[21:28] <Myrtti> yeah, that's the Seveas we've grown to love alright.
[21:28] <SpaceGhostC2C> I have no doubt that no one was hurt permanently. I asked topyli if he apologised, and he said yes. I dropped it and then later I read that Seveas didn't receive the message and topyli said "<topyli> funkyHat, which is not my prolem"
[21:29] <topyli> whether or not he receives msgs is indeed not my problem. i'll catch him when he's around
[21:29] <SpaceGhostC2C> It was topyli's fail and it sounded like he didn't really care to apologise correctly.
[21:30] <topyli> what is the problem then? whether or not seveas was/will be apologised to properly? how does that affect you?
[21:30] <SpaceGhostC2C> I hope topyli apologises, it's his perogative. It's not personal, I think topyli is really funny and cool.
[21:30] <jpds> ikonia: Oh my god.
[21:30] <ikonia> ?
[21:31] <SpaceGhostC2C> topyli, I'm trying to spell it out, could you possibly wait until I'm finished and then you can the other ops can discuss it?
[21:31] <jpds> ikonia: Interesting relationship you have with the cmp.
[21:31] <ikonia> he's like this with every question, "please give me exact commands" and "how" for everything
[21:31] <ikonia> he's been trying to remove a file for 3 days
[21:32] <ikonia> but refuses to just get a simple grasp of the basics of even using nautilius
[21:32] <SpaceGhostC2C> My closing thought was that it was a small incident, not terribly important, but it made me feel like topyli didn't care much by the way he talked afterwards. Kind of disconcerting. That's really the whole of it.
[21:34] <topyli> ok, thanks SpaceGhostC2C
[21:35] <SpaceGhostC2C> I think I'm good to go. Everything good Myrtti?
[21:35] <Myrtti> yeah, I'm planning bedtime anyway
[21:35] <SpaceGhostC2C> Thanks. Later.
[21:40] <Myrtti> so, what about that factoid
[21:42] <topyli> looks like a good factoid, but i have no idea whether it's correct :)
[21:46]  * Myrtti looks at -offtopic in horror, again
[22:25] <DrManhattan> you guys sure hold a grudge for a long time - I've been banned for MONTHS from #ubuntu-offtopic for daring to laugh at bazhang and MenZa
[22:25] <CrashOverride> hello?
[22:26] <CrashOverride> Anyone here that can assist me?
[22:26] <tsimpson> what's up CrashOverride?
[22:26] <CrashOverride> I am a regsitered Ubuntu Team member
[22:26] <CrashOverride> is there a way I can get a vhost at all?
[22:26] <CrashOverride> I seen people with ubuntu/member
[22:26] <CrashOverride> or something around
[22:27] <tsimpson> CrashOverride: please you join #ubuntu-irc
[22:27] <CrashOverride> im on there
[22:27] <CrashOverride> Do I ask there?
[22:27] <tsimpson> I'll help you there
[22:28] <DrManhattan> any chance of getting the ban removed?
[22:29] <ikonia> DrManhattan: who banned you ?
[22:29] <tsimpson> DrManhattan: MenZa doesn't appear to be here at the moment, try later
[22:29] <DrManhattan> Neither one of them are ever really here.
[22:29] <DrManhattan> ikonia, MenZa
[22:32] <ikonia> DrManhattan: I see you have had a vew bans
[22:33] <DrManhattan> yeah the one in #ubuntu was removed.
[22:33] <jrib> hmm, is btlogin working for anyone?  When I visit ubottu's link, I receive the message that "bantracker is not available for anonymous users"
[22:33] <DrManhattan> the one in offtopic was not.
[22:33] <ikonia> jpds: just woke up now
[22:33] <ikonia> DrManhattan: there appears to be a few over al
[22:33] <ikonia> all
[22:33] <DrManhattan> maybe from ##windows, a while ago
[22:33] <DrManhattan> they're sort of over-touchy about the language
[22:34] <Myrtti> CrashOverride: if your business is handled in -irc, you can leave this channel now :-)
[22:34] <ikonia> if it was a one off ban I'd be comfortable looking at it, but looking at the logs you've had a few bans from  ubuntu channels so it's best you come back when menza is active
[22:34] <ikonia> jrib: BT responding super slow
[22:34] <jrib> half my internet has been slow today
[22:34] <DrManhattan> nah, never mind. I don't need to go back into -offtopic. Thanks anyhow.
[22:35] <CrashOverride> Im sorry
[22:35] <CrashOverride> My bad
[22:35] <jrib> oh well, guess people stay banned for today
[22:35] <ikonia> if he didn't need to get back in, why ask ?
[22:40] <Myrtti> good night everyone
[23:09] <jrib> night Myrtti
[23:46] <genii> Bah. How long do the bots stay in emergency mode?