[00:49] <troy_s> Raff7: So hunt around on Gnome look. Unfortunately everyone is rather obsessed with the craptastic looking Tango and such.
[04:37] <kwwii> better yet, instead of complaining try helping to fix the problem
[04:57] <DanRabbit1> kwwii: yea! tell him :D
[04:59] <kwwii> :p
[06:29] <troy_s> kwwii: Because not all that many see it as a problem methinks.
[06:33] <kwwii> troy_s: true
[06:33] <troy_s> kwwii: And more, the 'whittle away on a piece of wood' doesn't seem to be buying us much in the way of a holistic approach to design.
[06:34] <troy_s> kwwii: Looks like you have a pretty solid addition though in Dominic... chatted with him yet?
[06:34] <kwwii> troy_s: I think that you'll start to see some change in the future...the design team is just getting up to speed
[06:34] <troy_s> kwwii: Not without more designers. You have Dominic from what I can see.
[06:35] <kwwii> yeah, he is great
[06:35] <kwwii> there are more than you thikn
[06:35] <kwwii> think
[06:36] <kwwii> you only see a small portion on the art list
[06:37] <kwwii> troy_s: I end up being the tech support for the design team, so I get to talk to them all :P
[06:38] <troy_s> kwwii: I don't really watch the art list.
[06:38] <troy_s> kwwii: The thing is, design ethic starts at the top. ;)
[06:39] <kwwii> troy_s: indeed, and one of the best things Ivanka has done is learn to lead without being led
[06:39] <troy_s> kwwii: I'd think ethically it raises some concerns if the tools aren't pushed, etc.
[06:40] <troy_s> kwwii: The last thing a public face needs is the private blog side revealing a bunch of Mac fanboys.
[06:40] <troy_s> kwwii: But alas, just one completely irrelevant opinion.
[06:41] <kwwii> troy_s: well, one thing that has changed recently is that everyone on the team has to run ubuntu
[06:41] <troy_s> kwwii: I applaud that. But by run, I'd hope that it is the same zealotry that is pushed at Apple.
[06:41] <kwwii> troy_s: and at least two designers that I know of are learning to use inkscape because they realized that they have to in order to make SVGs for linux
[06:41] <troy_s> kwwii: Hell... that is exactly why Keynote was created.
[06:42] <troy_s> kwwii: It is sad because the tools are close in some capacities, and leagues away in others (namely GIMP and Inkscape). I'd hope that Canonical could push to get those marginalized elements turned into a priority.
[06:42] <troy_s> kwwii: Difficult when everyone is worried about 22 pixel icons in the era of representational data.
[06:43] <kwwii> troy_s: indeed
[06:43] <kwwii> troy_s: did you see photobomb?
[06:43] <troy_s> kwwii: Uh... Maybe?
[06:43] <troy_s> kwwii: I honestly cringe every time I see _anything_ coming out of the culture these days. I just cringe.
[06:44] <troy_s> kwwii: Link?
[06:44] <kwwii> the head of the platform team (rick spencer) is doing it as a proof of concept
[06:45] <kwwii> lp is sooo slow
[06:46] <kwwii> https://launchpad.net/photobomb http://theravingrick.blogspot.com
[06:47] <kwwii> note that the icons are just place holders :p
[06:48] <troy_s> kwwii: And netdeth.
[06:48] <troy_s> kwwii: Go again... missed that obviously.
[06:48] <kwwii> 07:46 < kwwii> https://launchpad.net/photobomb http://theravingrick.blogspot.com
[06:48] <kwwii> 07:47 < kwwii> note that the icons are just place holders :p
[06:48] <troy_s> kwwii: (It's ok, I can't stand icons nor our obsession with them.)
[06:49] <troy_s> kwwii: What is the goal of Pb?
[06:50] <kwwii> troy_s: to be a simple to use photo editor which is also social desktop enabled
[06:50] <kwwii> or however you describe it
[06:51] <kwwii> the idea being the f-spot is still more than what most need/want
[06:51] <troy_s> kwwii: Lol. Speaking of which, is there _any_ sense of face recog going on out there? I've been a looking but seeing nothing.
[06:51] <kwwii> gimp is serious overkill
[06:51] <troy_s> kwwii: Picasa is pretty darn ridiculous.
[06:51] <kwwii> I don't know of any, but I bet ted gould would
[06:52] <troy_s> kwwii: Well that's about audience and goal isn't it? GIMP is one of those strange apps. It's too complicated for a casual snapshot editor, and too utterly crippled for serious manipulation.
[06:55] <troy_s> kwwii: (Although some would argue differently... *cough* http://identi.ca/conversation/11761531#notice-15873957 *cough*)
[06:56] <kwwii> GIMP has a history
[06:56] <kwwii> so GIMP is what it is
[06:56] <troy_s> kwwii: It has a cancer.
[06:56] <kwwii> I mean, the whole basis of gnome, gtk is the GIMP Tool Kit. How logical is that?
[06:56] <troy_s> kwwii: Sadly, there are two _glaring_ issues with it, and they never seem to bubble to the priority list because everyone is too busy crunching on those 22pixel icons.
[06:56] <troy_s> kwwii: Yep. Go figure.
[06:57] <kwwii> hehe, editing photos with UfRAW and GIMP
[06:57] <kwwii> it's something you do if you cannot do anything else
[06:57] <troy_s> kwwii: Sadly, the guy was smug enough to think that he really gets it.
[06:57] <troy_s> kwwii: I _would_ .
[06:57] <kwwii> like a proof of concept that one could theoretically edit pics on linux
[06:57] <troy_s> kwwii: The point is that people are _totally_ in the dark about deep colour.
[06:58] <troy_s> kwwii: And by really, I mean like 'not even in the same timezone' dark.
[06:58] <kwwii> oh, even some of the best designers don't understand how computer hardware relates colour info
[06:58] <troy_s> kwwii: I was honestly going to tell him to selectively blur an 8bpc image and watch for posterization, but then I realized that he wouldn't notice it. Brutal.
[06:59] <kwwii> lol
[06:59] <troy_s> kwwii: Most about everyone I know understands what the hell deep colour is and why it is _mandatory_ for any manipulation. It's just ... uh ... *cough* symptomatic.
[06:59] <troy_s> kwwii: No better when our group seems to think that banding is related to deep colour and not the 6bit TN panels everyone is looking at.
[06:59] <troy_s> kwwii: It's really a tough struggle.
[07:00] <troy_s> kwwii: So are you working on the uh... memenu?
[07:00] <kwwii> lol, exactly
[07:00] <kwwii> nope
[07:03] <kwwii> mpt did the design of it and the dx team the implementation
[07:03] <kwwii> great, it started snowing again
[07:14] <troy_s> kwwii: It's... uh.
[07:15] <troy_s> kwwii: Snow?
[07:15] <troy_s> kwwii: You back home?
[07:15] <kwwii> yepp
[07:15] <kwwii> leaving on sunday again though
[07:15] <kwwii> it has been snowing here on more than off for the last month
[07:17] <kwwii> vish: hey, which branch are you pushing all your changes to? is lp:humanity in use anymore?
[07:19] <vish> kwwii: i'm pushing changes only when we are done tweaking the icons
[07:19] <vish> to lp:humanity
[07:20] <kwwii> vish: ok so elementary is the working branch and humanity the release
[07:20] <vish> yeah
[07:20] <kwwii> vish: I wondered where the debian directly went ;)
[07:20] <vish> kwwii: andrew takes care of that stuff :D , he has a ppa branch
[07:21] <kwwii> hrm, well, we need to get a package in today for alpha3
[07:21] <kwwii> I guess he is asleep already
[07:22] <vish> kwwii: what we can do is just use his ppa branch and update the theme
[07:22] <vish> the last release was on jan26 or something
[07:22] <kwwii> ok, I'll look into it
[07:22] <kwwii> we need those soundMenu icons
[07:23] <kwwii> because the soundMenu will be in A3
[07:23] <kwwii> ;)
[07:23] <vish> hehe..
[07:23] <troy_s> Night all. Be good.
[07:26]  * vish hopes kwwii can also get Bug #498182 fixed ;p
[07:28] <kwwii> hehe, not my job :P
[07:29] <vish> ;0
[07:29] <kwwii> vish: so, https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release is what is in lucid now
[07:29] <kwwii> and andrew has a ppa with changes
[07:30] <kwwii> but I wonder if he has a bzr repo for it?
[07:30] <vish> kwwii: so how do you want it? [the index.theme also needs fixing]  , shall i just use the release repo and request merge?
[07:31]  * vish checks when a3 is
[07:31] <kwwii> vish: it would be best if you could check out https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release and suggest a merge
[07:31] <kwwii> that way, I know that I am not missing anything
[07:31] <vish> kwwii: sure, will do that
[07:31] <kwwii> vish: killer, thanks!
[07:33] <vish> kwwii: a3 is on the 25th , and to add changes in the changelog , there are a huge number of bugs that have been fixed... can i do it by mon 14th?
[07:33] <kwwii> vish: yes, of course ;)
[07:33] <vish> great :)
[07:34] <kwwii> in the future we should get andrew working directly on those packages
[07:34] <kwwii> we should add a ppa for the team
[07:34] <kwwii> makes sense
[07:42] <vish> kwwii: hmm , so the monochrome icons are all supposed to be used only in the panel? and with the name -panel, right? the other icon can be color and be used in the dialogue windows right?
[07:42] <kwwii> vish: that is the idea, not sure if the implementation is that far along though
[07:43] <kwwii> vish: in the long run we want to use -symbolic anyway so I don't think that there is a comprehensive plan for -panel
[07:43] <vish> yeah
[07:43] <kwwii> ie for now it seems to be a work around until we can implement it correctly
[07:43] <vish> kwwii: ted mentioned he could just write a script and quickly change them in one go
[07:45] <kwwii> vish: yeah, I should talk to him about that
[07:45] <vish> kwwii: the dialogue windows use the icons without the -panel tags , and if the sound menu is done , i could fix 2 bugs regarding the sound icon problem ;)
[07:45]  * kwwii adss ted mentioned he could just write a script and quickly change  them in one go
[07:45] <kwwii> to his todo list
[11:44] <darkmatter> vish: II just read the funniest thing ever. I laughed so hard I almost wet myself
[11:46] <darkmatter> vish: GIMP is "a high-end application for professionals".  ROTFLMFAO
[11:48] <thorwil> at least it wasn't claimed that darkmatter would have a sophisticated sense of humor
[11:49]  * thorwil -> lunch
[11:49] <darkmatter> thorwil: what. I can't find ludicrous claims highly amusing? "P
[12:15] <thorwil> sure you can ;)
[13:29] <vish> darkmatter: beggers can't be choosers ;p
[13:29]  * vish runs
[13:30]  * darkmatter throw a hungry hulk-sized zombie on vish
[13:31]  * thorwil watches as a flock of seagulls take the zombie apart mid-air
[13:32] <darkmatter> an '80's band ate my zombie? :(
[13:33]  * darkmatter kills a flock of seagulls. bad! no comeback tour for you!
[13:34] <thorwil> lol
[13:34]  * thorwil goes for a walk
[15:45] <dashua> zniavre, http://www.ubuntu-pics.de/bild/42326/screenshot_004_cLD63t.png
[15:45] <dashua> Fixed the bookmarks toolbar.  Had to use a .css file. =/
[15:46] <zniavre> that s nice
[15:46] <zniavre> this theme can replace the darkroom
[15:47] <dashua> I think psyke is working on that.
[15:48] <zniavre> ho i believe you were the author of DR
[15:48] <dashua> Oh no.  kwwii and psyke are.
[15:48] <zniavre> by the way modify murrine engine is too complicated for me
[15:49] <dashua> I haven't looked at the code yet for the border_colors.
[15:49] <zniavre> i will use pixmap sadly
[15:50] <zniavre> a kind of workaround (as your css)
[15:50] <dashua> Yeah, now you are stuck with one color.
[15:52] <zniavre> yep i like my black/white concept
[15:53] <dashua> That is nice.  Are you working on Lucidity?
[16:09] <zniavre> not really only the progressbar idea wich is done
[19:12]  * zniavre does not like at all the new volume control into notification applet
[19:13] <zniavre> i hav the feeling like the rhythmbox icon looks too small
[19:31] <zniavre> i really think they could leave the old gnome-volume-control-applet available
[19:32] <troy_s> zniavre: It's still there if you want it.
[19:32] <zniavre> i can't find it
[19:34] <zniavre> do you remember the name please?
[19:37] <zniavre> sorry to insist but it's not available anymore
[20:03] <zniavre> i guess it's the first time im not happy with new stuff in ubuntu
[20:04] <troy_s> zniavre: It's a panel application, is it not?
[20:04] <troy_s> zniavre: Should be right click on panel and 'add to panel'
[20:04] <troy_s> zniavre: Not running Lucid, so it is possible they yanked it I suppose. No big deal, it would be in the repos somewhere.
[20:05] <zniavre> there is no more volume control (simple one "as before")
[20:05] <zniavre> it was a part of gnome-applet but volume stuff is deleted
[20:06] <zniavre> i spent the last 45mn to find it
[20:07] <zniavre> :o)
[20:08] <troy_s> zniavre: Must still be in a repo - look for gnome panel stuff.
[20:14] <zniavre> trust me it is not ...http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/7408/captureie.png
[20:14] <troy_s> zniavre: What the lord is that teradactyl looking icon mess next to the x chat icon?
[20:15] <zniavre> nicotine (soulseek) icon
[20:16] <troy_s> zniavre: _wow_.
[20:16] <zniavre> it is so bad ?   (homemade ...)
[20:17] <troy_s> zniavre: Are those stock Lucid monochrome icons?
[20:18] <zniavre> i made them
[20:18] <zniavre> to "fit" humanity
[20:19] <zniavre> i did my best but im not designer at all, just playing with inkscape to learn
[20:22] <troy_s> zniavre: Ahh... I thought they were stock.
[20:22] <zniavre> they were much better ... but no they are mine
[20:27] <zniavre> did you find them so awfull ?
[20:30] <troy_s> zniavre: Not at all. Just wondering what the hell the teradactyl was.
[20:30] <zniavre> http://slsknet.org/
[20:31] <troy_s> zniavre: Figures. My personal feeling on instrumentation glyphs is that they should be more tied to the abstract goal as to what the thing accomplishes (given context of culture and such of course)
[20:32] <troy_s> zniavre: I'm plus on one the chat bubble, or a musical note, etc., I don't know if I'd support a particular application as a monochrome icon in the tray. It should probably end up classified under a particular type of application. Heads the way of windows.
[20:33] <troy_s> zniavre: Where there is just this godawful pileup of useless applications that turns the tray into a mini task panel.
[20:39] <zniavre> in fact this nicotine is the most important application for me  (im not using it as p2p) all my friends in the real life and all around the world using it since at least 8 years im now a small dev of nicotine since im using ubuntu ( a bit offtopic but for me this apps hav his place into systray)
[20:42] <zniavre> (in also a good chat application)*
[23:32] <lfaraone> I  know that the Ubuntu logo is trademarked, but under what license are the logo renditions u nder?