[00:06] i just had a chat with jono on skype [00:11] i'll email the list with details soon [01:36] godbyk: ping [01:38] anyone know how to merge in LP? [02:10] humphreybc: pong [02:10] ah gidday [02:10] how easy would it be for you to change the hyperlink colour of the contents to something other than bright blue? [02:10] Easy peasy. [02:11] could you do that real quick and push? i'll update the file on my server then. I've emailed some blogs and they're probably going to blog about the alpha release [02:11] Sure. [02:11] would be nicer if we could have a better looking contents because the bright blue is ugly :P [02:13] Heh.. it's actually DarkBlue. :-) [02:13] lol [02:14] How about I switch all the colors to Ubuntu red or something? Would that be better? [02:14] yeh [02:14] there's also a merge proposal on LP, if you could take a look at that too.. i've got work in a minute [02:15] A merge proposal? What do they want merged? [02:18] some stuff in chapter 2 [02:18] let me know when you push the changes to the contents [02:28] humphreybc: Pushed. [02:28] Changed from 'bright' blue to brighter red. :-/ [02:28] sweet [02:28] haha [09:43] godbyk / thorwil : http://imagebin.ca/view/SXGPBET6.html how's this font? [09:45] benjamin wanted different font from what we have now , so i switched to that^ [10:08] vish: the "Ub" is unfortunate [10:09] thorwil: yeah , i already tried separating them.. more space? [10:10] vish: you could increase the tracking for the whole thing [10:10] just don't add space between only those 2 characters [10:10] nah , not space:) [10:10] thorwil: tracking only for the "Ubunutu" or for all the letters? [10:11] vish: all letters [10:11] hmm , k.. [10:12] vish: you understand the difference between tracking and kerning? [10:12] yup , kinda [10:12] tracking is also called letter-spacing [10:12] referring to the spacing between all letters [10:12] thorwil: ah , i thought you earlier meant space [by spacebar] [10:12] while kerning is about pairs [10:14] btw, Ben assigned me to the Artwork/Screenshots/Diagrams blueprint [10:14] i unassigned myself because of the Scrrenshots/Diagrams part [10:15] yeah , noticed ;) [10:15] and his not bothering to ask first [10:19] vish: i also think you should have said No! to changing the font on the preliminary title page [10:20] * thorwil continues some house work [10:20] :) [10:50] hello guys, I'm thinking to be Lithuanian translation coordinator. I'm new with this position, so what I must know and do to be good coordinator? [10:53] humphreybc: I think you can give me some guidelines..:) [10:54] hi komsas, we don't really have translation coordinators at the moment - everything is all a bit messy with translations at the moment [10:55] when we have our writing freeze on march 18th we'll be able to focus a lot of time into fixing the translations and appointing coordinators etc [10:56] So you say to wait till march 18th? [10:56] hmm, for the role of coordinator yes. for the meantime there are a lot of other things that you are welcome to help out with if you're looking for something to do [10:58] I'm intresting with translations, main goal to ship lithuanian version till ubuntu release. [10:59] humphreybc: thanks, so now I will work to catch best translator till march 18th. [10:59] yep are you translating at the moment? [11:00] yes, we will start soon. [11:01] awesome [11:02] any questions just flick me an email or find me in here [11:02] my email is humphreybc@gmail.com [11:02] I'm thinking to create launchpad gruop for lithuanian manual translators, what you think about this idea? [11:02] ok, I will :) [11:05] komsas: I'd prefer it if you didn't create another group [11:05] we don't want 30+ ubuntu manual groups for all the translating teams [11:05] but you're welcome to go and grab a part of the wiki [11:06] perhaps: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/lithuanian [11:06] Oh, nice :) [11:09] dutchie, godbyk, thorwil, ping [11:09] pong [11:10] thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/48hours [11:12] humphreybc: count me out [11:12] why? [11:13] because i have other things to worry about [11:13] righto, that's cool. I'll see if wolter wants to hold your class [11:14] he can't. he could hold his class, but not mine [11:16] okay well I'd like to have a class that gives the artwork team a chance to explain things to everyone else [11:17] humphreybc: btw, you assigned me to that Artwork/Screenshots/Diagrams blueprint. i initially just wanted to help with th title page. suddenly i become team leader. ok so far. but i will not take on any further responsibility, while the current situation is already shaky [11:18] so i unassigned myself. screenshots? no [11:18] okay, well if you don't want to be team leader then that's all good [11:18] how do you mean shaky? [11:19] humphreybc: i guess you have to catch up on some mails on the list [11:19] yep, can you summarize? [11:21] humphreybc: basically this: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg00638.html [11:22] humphreybc: what i'm writing here might sound more dramatic than it actually is [11:22] right. well I wouldn't go as far as calling that shaky. We've still got over two months till release, and to be honest, I wasn't even planning on thinking about artwork until halfway through march [11:23] I think the actual content is in a worse position right now than the artwork [11:24] but we'll get there [11:24] we've done pretty damn well so far and most of the people in the ubuntu community are very impressed [11:24] so I wouldn't worry too much :) [11:29] i simply see a huge gap between vish and me and the few people who recently provided feedback [11:30] and i feel the need to counteract the offer-your-finger-and-have-your-hand taken phenomenon ;) [11:31] well, your in charge of the artwork team. you do what you think is best for the project. talk to me first and just okay anything important, but apart from that, I trust your ability to make the right decisions [11:34] humphreybc: how did you count "about 5 people" in the artwork team? [11:35] i just guessed, there's you, vish, wolter and is kolorguild around? [11:36] no, never saw or heard anything of him again [11:36] ah okay [12:05] * humphreybc just counted the languages the manual is being translated into: 40! [12:16] humphreybc: how to handle translation of the title page text? [12:20] ah yes the million dollar question [12:21] honestly? i've been avoiding answering it because I don't know how we're going to do it! [12:22] humphreybc: i expect that we will have to do deal with each title page translation manually, to stay in control of the layout [12:22] yeah that's probably going to be the case. I never predicted we would have so many translations [12:22] we will at least need a list of the title translated in all those languages [12:23] some of which we can't read at all [12:23] True. We can email all the translators and ask them to translate that one string into their own language and put it on a wiki page somewhere [12:24] humphreybc: does the wiki support other scripts like Cyrillic? [12:24] i'm not sure [12:25] from a quick google search, i think yes [12:25] humphreybc: it might be better if we can get translators to create titlepage SVGs with the translations [12:26] humphreybc: less work for the few who can check the layout and less worry about issues with input methods and such [12:27] that means the page has to be 100% nailed down until we could do that [12:27] yep, can we aim for a final title page design by March 18th? [12:28] that's when we're freezing the writing and release beta. then all hands will be on screenshots and translations [12:28] it'll be really busy, like, REALLY busy! [12:28] that should work [12:32] yeah. we'll get there, it might just be a bit hectic [12:42] thorwil: I just replied to the title page thread on the ML [12:51] humphreybc: that's very acceptable :) [12:51] cool, happy? [12:52] just relieved ;) [12:53] sweet [12:53] so if you would like to talk to wolter at some point and come up with another design or two, then that would be awesome [12:53] where are you from btw? I don't think I've ever asked [12:54] germany, north-west, not far from the Netherlands [12:54] what city? [12:54] I learnt german for 4 years in high school [12:54] mönchengladbach [12:55] my teacher was from Heidleberg [12:55] not sure if that's the correct spelling [12:55] cool [12:55] heidelberg [12:55] humphreybc: can you say "streichholzschächtelchen"? [12:56] i can attempt it! [13:00] had 9 years of english classes. last 3 with a british lady [13:01] oh cool [13:01] did you see the agenda for the meeting tomorrow btw? [13:01] my spoken english is only a meager shadow of my written ... that's what happens if you read/write daily but talk like once a year, max [13:02] humphreybc: yes. can't think of something to add [13:04] ah so not that many people speak english in your town? [13:04] i can hardly speak german anymore [13:04] ich sprechen ein bisschen deutsch [13:05] can you make it to the meeting? [13:06] humphreybc: almost only natives here, germans don't speak english if they don't have to, although many have had there 6 or 9 years of classes [13:06] dutchie: ping - check your facebook wall [13:07] thorwil: yes i've heard that. I haven't been to europe before but i'd love to go [13:09] humphreybc: meeting time is fine for me [13:09] awesoe [13:09] with an m in there too [13:10] right i better get some sleep [13:10] lots of stuff to do tomorrow [13:10] keep up the good work thorwil [13:10] humphreybc: you can get very far with english in europe, but you gain bonus points if try to speak at least a few words in the native language [13:11] humphreybc: sleep you very well [13:26] * vish notices thorwil's attempt at "Yoda" ;p [13:29] vish: huh? [13:30] "sleep you very well" , i thought you were trying to speak like yoda , the star wars character.. oops :s [13:33] thorwil: hehe , it would have been more accurate with "sleep you very well may" :) [13:33] trying to speak like yoda there is no, you do or don't [13:53] wtf! benjamin asked to redo the fonts and he sent out the one he already has! [14:02] seriously a waste of time! [14:03] thorwil: i should have listened to you :s and said no [19:55] We have in translations problem, one men translating all content with google translate, what we can do to stop it? [20:02] komsas: Which language? [20:03] lithuanian [20:04] I'm talking about this guy https://launchpad.net/~nerijusgargzduose [20:06] I'll talk to humphreybc and dutchie about setting the permissions from Open to Structured. That may cut down on the drive-by translation stuff a bit. [20:06] Is there a Lithuanian team? [20:07] we now making it. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/lithuanian [20:07] Okay. [20:08] I would recommend emailing the ubuntu-manual mailing list and asking if we can set the project translation permissions from Open to Structured. [20:08] I think another translation team earlier raised the question, too. [20:09] ok, I will find this raised question. [20:10] Hey, guys. I've read a bit of the manual and I'd like to give some suggestions. In the chapter dealing with installation of Ubuntu, there is written something like that: "you should download Ubuntu from their homepage and burn it to disk" and there is a sidenote something like this:"read the manual of your OS how to burn a disk". When I first tried to install linux, I ruined 8(!) CD because I didn't know how to burn an iso [20:12] godbyk: I have permissions to change it. Can I change it to Structured for now? [20:13] komsas: Since it affects all the other translators, we should probably wait to hear back from others first. [20:14] oh, you are right . [20:15] mcqr: Thanks for your suggestion. I think someone emailed the list earlier today with the same suggestion and the author of that chapter made a note of it. [20:16] mcqr: Here were the suggestions made on the list earlier: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg00659.html [20:16] Feel free to write in to the list with more recommendations, as well! [20:17] strange. the fonts Free Helvetian/Paladin/Schoolbook have copyright tags like this: Copyright (URW)++,Copyright 1999 by (URW)++ Design [20:17] but they're all from some free fonts debian/ubuntu package [20:17] thorwil: What's strange about it? [20:18] godbyk: just a (c) with no license terms usually means all rights restricted [20:19] thorwil: Ah, I've noticed most fonts' copyright terms (the stuff embedded in the ttf/otf file) are often out-of-sync with the license they've been released under. [20:19] godbyk: i' trying to assemble a list of fonts suitable for body text and maybe title page [20:20] fontmatrix is being a great help, but some font-metadata isn't what it should be, obviously :) [20:20] thorwil: Cool! I'm trying to find appropriate fonts for all the languages we're supporting.. and people keep translating it to even more languages! [20:20] fontmatrix is pretty awesome. [20:20] will it let you filter by script (language)? [20:21] version 0.6 is indeed awesome, the one from karmic not [20:21] I'm running the svn version. [20:22] godbyk: i see no sign of filtering by script [20:22] Darn. That'd really help me out. [20:22] I've been running otfinfo -s and grep to find fonts and it's, well, sub-optimal. :) [20:26] godbyk: any clue on the differences between the 4 gentium variants? [20:29] thorwil: Looks like the Book variant is a bit bolder than the others. [20:30] Otherwise, there's some difference in the Unicode coverage as well. [20:31] From the site: "The 'Basic' fonts only support a limited Latin character set (no Greek or Cyrillic). Gentium Book is a new companion family to Gentium that is altogether slightly heavier, and better suited for some publishing needs." [21:02] Charis SIL renders very good in fontmatrix [21:06] MgOpen fonts all seem to have some problems leading to missing characters or bad kerning [21:28] * dutchie gets round to updating the translations [21:42] dutchie: Does it still wipe out the translations when we update them? [21:42] all the ones that have changed [21:42] which will be most of them considering how long it's been since I updated them [21:51] humphreybc: thanks for warning me about doing a talk :P [21:51] dutchie: yep thought i'd give everyone plenty of warning :P [21:51] first I heard was in the announcement [21:51] you don't have to if you don't want to, but I just thought i'd jot down the main people and see how we go [21:52] it's fine, it was just a bit of a shock seeing it in the announcement before anywhere else [21:52] yeah I'm going to talk through it with you guys at the meeting tomorrow [21:53] what do you think of the idea? [21:53] seems cool [21:55] swell [21:55] hopefully it'll teach people like Wendy some latex so she can commit herself without sending stuff to Ilya [21:55] and if we teach everyone Ground Control that would be awesome [21:55] we can play with lernid too :) [21:56] yep! [21:56] It's good because Jono and Martin want testers for Lernid and Ground Control [21:56] something of a jono-endorsed dev tools fest [21:56] and we're a big project, so basically we get kudos for testing their stuff, and it benefits our team as well [21:56] humphreybc: I updated the translations tonight [21:57] yep i saw that, hey did you just get the email from komsas about structuring translations? [21:57] I bet we get a massive load of people complaining that everything changed [21:57] I did see it [21:58] have another look, i just replied and he replied [21:58] sounds like a good idea, but we'll have to tell the translators somehow [21:58] and they're going to have to set up teams and all that [21:58] https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/PermissionPolicies [21:59] ah [21:59] "Anyone can suggest a translation for those languages, though." [21:59] "For languages that aren't covered by a translation group, anyone can [21:59] directly submit a translation." [21:59] so it won't be that bad [22:00] * dutchie is exhauste [22:00] d [22:00] what time is it? [22:00] 10 pm [22:00] gotcha [22:00] 11am here [22:00] on saturday [22:00] righto i think we'll switch to structured [22:00] i'll email the team [22:01] I fixed the planet too [22:01] Hi guys, I see that lithuanian translations is assigned to lithuanian ubuntu translation team, I'm in this team, so for us is everythink ok if you change permission. It will be good action. [22:03] okay cool [22:04] komsas: i'm just doing that now [22:05] I don't know how, but I would like to clean all translations from that user who made mess. [22:05] komsas: nice work on the lithuanian wiki page [22:05] thanks ;) [22:06] I can't read lithuanian but it looks good :) [22:06] komsas: if you just find their translations on translations.launchpad.net, you should be able to retranslate them [22:07] * humphreybc changes to structured [22:09] * humphreybc prays that the translators don't explode [22:11] I see that I'm not first talking about permissions so everybody will be happy [22:13] oh are more people wanting structured? [22:13] i have to admit I have been very ignorant with translations [22:14] I haven't taken much time to understand how they actually work, or to set up a proper structure [22:14] but it's great that you've come forward to talk to the rest of the team komsas - we normally hardly hear from translators! [22:15] godbyk said today that someone was writing about it in mailing list. [22:15] humphreybc: are we going to be using #ubuntu-classroom for the 48 hours thing? [22:15] maybe but I think we could have it all in Lernid? [22:15] humphreybc: I think from alhpa more people will come.. [22:16] humphreybc: lernid just acts as a pretty front-end to IRC [22:16] I'm updating the wiki now [22:16] ah right, well yes #ubuntu-classroom will be good [22:16] people can still use old-fashioned clients if they like :) [22:16] either there or in our chat room [22:17] wow. my server has uploaded 627mb of stuff in the last 12 hours since omgubuntu blogged about the alpha. Which means about 300 people have downloaded our alpha manual [22:17] blimey [22:17] yea [22:18] good thing i'm on unlimited internet now! [22:18] actual unlimited unlimited? [22:19] yep [22:20] telecom big time [22:20] it's traffic managed between 9-5, but it's still fairly quick [22:20] and at night it's nice and fast AND unlimited bandwidth [22:21] for some reason my server has some sort of memory leak: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/phpsysinfo [22:21] wow [22:21] checked [h]top? [22:21] check out the uptime, but then look at the physical memory usage and the network usage [22:22] rubbish uptime :P [22:22] 22:22:11 up 10 days, 51 min, 5 users, load average: 0.56, 0.40, 0.35 [22:22] haha yeah [22:22] I'm thinking how to get rid of bad translations. Main thing is that now showing that we are translated ~50% of content, but in real there are only 2-3%. [22:22] it was up a month before i restarted yesterday [22:22] my friend came to stay and he slept in the server room (lounge) so I turned it off at night so it wouldn't keep him awake [22:22] humphreybc: it's sad when you have to do that [22:23] komsas: I think you'll probably just have to go through and overwrite what he's done [22:23] dutchie: nothing showing in top [22:23] I cant to make it back to clean position. [22:23] ;/ [22:23] komsas: I somewhat doubt many will be left once the new template imports :) [22:24] dutchie: i think phpsysinfo is reporting it wrong [22:24] komsas: but if you go to https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+pots/ubuntu-manual/lt/+translate then you can set the dodgy ones back to empty (or a proper translation) [22:24] memory usage only shows 95mb / 497 [22:24] perhaps phpsysinfo adds the memory usage up instead of having it in real time... which would be a bug [22:31] links are href right? [22:31] text [22:35] nah for latex. i worked it out, \url [22:40] godbyk: ping [22:41] humphreybc: pong [22:41] have you used agave before to match colour schemes? [22:41] i'm going to plug in some of our colours to see what it comes up with [22:42] I have, yeah. [22:42] humphreybc: here are the ubuntu colors, fwiw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official [22:43] oh wow [22:43] i thought that UbuntuRed looks way too bright [22:44] UbuntuMaroon maybe? :P [22:45] yeah, I think the red is too bright. [22:45] looking at this color palette, I like the accent red base or the accent deep red: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ubuntu-palette.png [22:46] you want the color to look dark when printed in b&w, too. [22:47] accent deep red for URLs and accent red base for sections? [22:47] then something like Accent yellow shadow for subsections [22:48] and Human base for subsubsections? [22:49] try those out and see how they look [22:49] :D [22:49] I don't think we need different colors for sections and subsections. [22:50] yeah you're probably right [22:50] so chapter headings are in black, sections in accent deep red and URLs in red base? [22:51] or swap the URL and sections colours. probably doesn't matter that much [22:51] we'll see. I'm need to sit down and read what folks have written so I can start the new design soon. [22:51] cool [22:51] how is the font hunting going? [22:52] Well, I've been stuck on the Telugu script for a while, but I'm going to move on and look at the other translations. [22:53] cool [22:53] I'd like to have the translated manuals be as well-designed (typographically speaking) as the English manual. [22:54] Unfortunately, I only speak English, so I'll be relying on the translators for some help there. [22:55] Speaking of fonts, I just got some new font specimens in the mail today. [22:55] Pretty. [22:55] Too bad I have no money. :-( [22:56] how much are fonts? [22:58] It varies quite a bit, but it's not unusual to see a family go for a few hundred bucks. [22:58] (US$) [23:09] eek