[00:06] <humphreybc> i just had a chat with jono on skype
[00:11] <humphreybc> i'll email the list with details soon
[01:36] <humphreybc> godbyk: ping
[01:38] <humphreybc> anyone know how to merge in LP?
[02:10] <godbyk> humphreybc: pong
[02:10] <humphreybc> ah gidday
[02:10] <humphreybc> how easy would it be for you to change the hyperlink colour of the contents to something other than bright blue?
[02:10] <godbyk> Easy peasy.
[02:11] <humphreybc> could you do that real quick and push? i'll update the file on my server then. I've emailed some blogs and they're probably going to blog about the alpha release
[02:11] <godbyk> Sure.
[02:11] <humphreybc> would be nicer if we could have a better looking contents because the bright blue is ugly :P
[02:13] <godbyk> Heh.. it's actually DarkBlue. :-)
[02:13] <humphreybc> lol
[02:14] <godbyk> How about I switch all the colors to Ubuntu red or something?  Would that be better?
[02:14] <humphreybc> yeh
[02:14] <humphreybc> there's also a merge proposal on LP, if you could take a look at that too.. i've got work in a minute
[02:15] <godbyk> A merge proposal? What do they want merged?
[02:18] <humphreybc> some stuff in chapter 2
[02:18] <humphreybc> let me know when you push the changes to the contents
[02:28] <godbyk> humphreybc: Pushed.
[02:28] <godbyk> Changed from 'bright' blue to brighter red. :-/
[02:28] <humphreybc> sweet
[02:28] <humphreybc> haha
[09:43] <vish> godbyk / thorwil : http://imagebin.ca/view/SXGPBET6.html how's this font?
[09:45] <vish> benjamin wanted different font from what we have now , so i switched to that^
[10:08] <thorwil> vish: the "Ub" is unfortunate
[10:09] <vish> thorwil: yeah , i already tried separating them.. more space?
[10:10] <thorwil> vish: you could increase the tracking for the whole thing
[10:10] <thorwil> just don't add space between only those 2 characters
[10:10] <vish> nah , not space:)
[10:10] <vish> thorwil: tracking only for the "Ubunutu" or for all the letters?
[10:11] <thorwil> vish: all letters
[10:11] <vish> hmm , k..
[10:12] <thorwil> vish: you understand the difference between tracking and kerning?
[10:12] <vish> yup , kinda
[10:12] <thorwil> tracking is also called letter-spacing
[10:12] <thorwil> referring to the spacing between all letters
[10:12] <vish> thorwil: ah , i thought you earlier meant space [by spacebar]
[10:12] <thorwil> while kerning is about pairs
[10:14] <thorwil> btw, Ben assigned me to the Artwork/Screenshots/Diagrams blueprint
[10:14] <thorwil> i unassigned myself because of the Scrrenshots/Diagrams part
[10:15] <vish> yeah , noticed ;)
[10:15] <thorwil> and his not bothering to ask first
[10:19] <thorwil> vish: i also think you should have said No! to changing the font on the preliminary title page
[10:20]  * thorwil continues some house work
[10:20] <vish> :)
[10:50] <komsas> hello guys, I'm thinking to be Lithuanian translation coordinator. I'm new with this position, so what I must know and do to be good coordinator?
[10:53] <komsas> humphreybc: I think you can give me some guidelines..:)
[10:54] <humphreybc> hi komsas, we don't really have translation coordinators at the moment - everything is all a bit messy with translations at the moment
[10:55] <humphreybc> when we have our writing freeze on march 18th we'll be able to focus a lot of time into fixing the translations and appointing coordinators etc
[10:56] <komsas> So you say to wait till march 18th?
[10:56] <humphreybc> hmm, for the role of coordinator yes. for the meantime there are a lot of other things that you are welcome to help out with if you're looking for something to do
[10:58] <komsas> I'm intresting with translations, main goal to ship lithuanian version till ubuntu release.
[10:59] <komsas> humphreybc: thanks, so now I will work to catch best translator till march 18th.
[10:59] <humphreybc> yep are you translating at the moment?
[11:00] <komsas> yes, we will start soon.
[11:01] <humphreybc> awesome
[11:02] <humphreybc> any questions just flick me an email or find me in here
[11:02] <humphreybc> my email is humphreybc@gmail.com
[11:02] <komsas> I'm thinking to create launchpad gruop for lithuanian manual translators, what you think about this idea?
[11:02] <komsas> ok, I will :)
[11:05] <humphreybc> komsas: I'd prefer it if you didn't create another group
[11:05] <humphreybc> we don't want 30+ ubuntu manual groups for all the translating teams
[11:05] <humphreybc> but you're welcome to go and grab a part of the wiki
[11:06] <humphreybc> perhaps: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/lithuanian
[11:06] <komsas> Oh, nice :)
[11:09] <humphreybc> dutchie, godbyk, thorwil, ping
[11:09] <thorwil> pong
[11:10] <humphreybc> thorwil: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/48hours
[11:12] <thorwil> humphreybc: count me out
[11:12] <humphreybc> why?
[11:13] <thorwil> because i have other things to worry about
[11:13] <humphreybc> righto, that's cool. I'll see if wolter wants to hold your class
[11:14] <thorwil> he can't. he could hold his class, but not mine
[11:16] <humphreybc> okay well I'd like to have a class that gives the artwork team a chance to explain things to everyone else
[11:17] <thorwil> humphreybc: btw, you assigned me to that Artwork/Screenshots/Diagrams blueprint. i initially just wanted to help with th title page. suddenly i become team leader. ok so far. but i will not take on any further responsibility, while the current situation is already shaky
[11:18] <thorwil> so i unassigned myself. screenshots? no
[11:18] <humphreybc> okay, well if you don't want to be team leader then that's all good
[11:18] <humphreybc> how do you mean shaky?
[11:19] <thorwil> humphreybc: i guess you have to catch up on some mails on the list
[11:19] <humphreybc> yep, can you summarize?
[11:21] <thorwil> humphreybc: basically this: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg00638.html
[11:22] <thorwil> humphreybc: what i'm writing here might sound more dramatic than it actually is
[11:22] <humphreybc> right. well I wouldn't go as far as calling that shaky. We've still got over two months till release, and to be honest, I wasn't even planning on thinking about artwork until halfway through march
[11:23] <humphreybc> I think the actual content is in a worse position right now than the artwork
[11:24] <humphreybc> but we'll get there
[11:24] <humphreybc> we've done pretty damn well so far and most of the people in the ubuntu community are very impressed
[11:24] <humphreybc> so I wouldn't worry too much :)
[11:29] <thorwil> i simply see a huge gap between vish and me and the few people who recently provided feedback
[11:30] <thorwil> and i feel the need to counteract the offer-your-finger-and-have-your-hand taken phenomenon ;)
[11:31] <humphreybc> well, your in charge of the artwork team. you do what you think is best for the project. talk to me first and just okay anything important, but apart from that, I trust your ability to make the right decisions
[11:34] <thorwil> humphreybc: how did you count "about 5 people" in the artwork team?
[11:35] <humphreybc> i just guessed, there's you, vish, wolter and is kolorguild around?
[11:36] <thorwil> no, never saw or heard anything of him again
[11:36] <humphreybc> ah okay
[12:05]  * humphreybc just counted the languages the manual is being translated into: 40!
[12:16] <thorwil> humphreybc: how to handle translation of the title page text?
[12:20] <humphreybc> ah yes the million dollar question
[12:21] <humphreybc> honestly? i've been avoiding answering it because I don't know how we're going to do it!
[12:22] <thorwil> humphreybc: i expect that we will have to do deal with each title page translation manually, to stay in control of the layout
[12:22] <humphreybc> yeah that's probably going to be the case. I never predicted we would have so many translations
[12:22] <thorwil> we will at least need a list of the title translated in all those languages
[12:23] <thorwil> some of which we can't read at all
[12:23] <humphreybc> True. We can email all the translators and ask them to translate that one string into their own language and put it on a wiki page somewhere
[12:24] <thorwil> humphreybc: does the wiki support other scripts like Cyrillic?
[12:24] <humphreybc> i'm not sure
[12:25] <humphreybc> from a quick google search, i think yes
[12:25] <thorwil> humphreybc: it might be better if we can get translators to create titlepage SVGs with the translations
[12:26] <thorwil> humphreybc: less work for the few who can check the layout and less worry about issues with input methods and such
[12:27] <thorwil> that means the page has to be 100% nailed down until we could do that
[12:27] <humphreybc> yep, can we aim for a final title page design by March 18th?
[12:28] <humphreybc> that's when we're freezing the writing and release beta. then all hands will be on screenshots and translations
[12:28] <humphreybc> it'll be really busy, like, REALLY busy!
[12:28] <thorwil> that should work
[12:32] <humphreybc> yeah. we'll get there, it might just be a bit hectic
[12:42] <humphreybc> thorwil: I just replied to the title page thread on the ML
[12:51] <thorwil> humphreybc: that's very acceptable :)
[12:51] <humphreybc> cool, happy?
[12:52] <thorwil> just relieved ;)
[12:53] <humphreybc> sweet
[12:53] <humphreybc> so if you would like to talk to wolter at some point and come up with another design or two, then that would be awesome
[12:53] <humphreybc> where are you from btw? I don't think I've ever asked
[12:54] <thorwil> germany, north-west, not far from the Netherlands
[12:54] <humphreybc> what city?
[12:54] <humphreybc> I learnt german for 4 years in high school
[12:54] <thorwil> mönchengladbach
[12:55] <humphreybc> my teacher was from Heidleberg
[12:55] <humphreybc> not sure if that's the correct spelling
[12:55] <thorwil> cool
[12:55] <thorwil> heidelberg
[12:55] <thorwil> humphreybc: can you say "streichholzschächtelchen"?
[12:56] <humphreybc> i can attempt it!
[13:00] <thorwil> had 9 years of english classes. last 3 with a british lady
[13:01] <humphreybc> oh cool
[13:01] <humphreybc> did you see the agenda for the meeting tomorrow btw?
[13:01] <thorwil> my spoken english is only a meager shadow of my written ... that's what happens if you read/write daily but talk like once a year, max
[13:02] <thorwil> humphreybc: yes. can't think of something to add
[13:04] <humphreybc> ah so not that many people speak english in your town?
[13:04] <humphreybc> i can hardly speak german anymore
[13:04] <humphreybc> ich sprechen ein bisschen deutsch
[13:05] <humphreybc> can you make it to the meeting?
[13:06] <thorwil> humphreybc: almost only natives here, germans don't speak english if they don't have to, although many have had there 6 or 9 years of classes
[13:06] <humphreybc> dutchie: ping - check your facebook wall
[13:07] <humphreybc> thorwil: yes i've heard that. I haven't been to europe before but i'd love to go
[13:09] <thorwil> humphreybc: meeting time is fine for me
[13:09] <humphreybc> awesoe
[13:09] <humphreybc> with an m in there too
[13:10] <humphreybc> right i better get some sleep
[13:10] <humphreybc> lots of stuff to do tomorrow
[13:10] <humphreybc> keep up the good work thorwil
[13:10] <thorwil> humphreybc: you can get very far with english in europe, but you gain bonus points if try to speak at least a few words in the native language
[13:11] <thorwil> humphreybc: sleep you very well
[13:26]  * vish notices thorwil's attempt at "Yoda" ;p
[13:29] <thorwil> vish: huh?
[13:30] <vish> "sleep you very well" , i thought you were trying to speak like yoda , the star wars character.. oops  :s
[13:33] <vish> thorwil: hehe , it would have been more accurate with "sleep you very well may"  :)
[13:33] <thorwil> trying to speak like yoda there is no, you do or don't
[13:53] <vish> wtf! benjamin asked to redo the fonts and he sent out the one he already has!
[14:02] <vish> seriously a waste of time!
[14:03] <vish> thorwil: i should have listened to you :s  and said no
[19:55] <komsas> We have in translations problem, one men translating all content with google translate, what we can do to stop it?
[20:02] <godbyk> komsas: Which language?
[20:03] <komsas> lithuanian
[20:04] <komsas> I'm talking about this guy https://launchpad.net/~nerijusgargzduose
[20:06] <godbyk> I'll talk to humphreybc and dutchie about setting the permissions from Open to Structured.  That may cut down on the drive-by translation stuff a bit.
[20:06] <godbyk> Is there a Lithuanian team?
[20:07] <komsas> we now making it. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/lithuanian
[20:07] <godbyk> Okay.
[20:08] <godbyk> I would recommend emailing the ubuntu-manual mailing list and asking if we can set the project translation permissions from Open to Structured.
[20:08] <godbyk> I think another translation team earlier raised the question, too.
[20:09] <komsas> ok, I will find this raised question.
[20:10] <mcqr> Hey, guys. I've read a bit of the manual and I'd like to give some suggestions. In the chapter dealing with installation of Ubuntu, there is written something like that: "you should download Ubuntu from their homepage and burn it to disk" and there is a sidenote something like this:"read the manual of your OS how to burn a disk". When I first tried to install linux, I ruined 8(!) CD because I didn't know how to burn an iso 
[20:12] <komsas> godbyk: I have permissions to change it. Can I change it to Structured for now?
[20:13] <godbyk> komsas: Since it affects all the other translators, we should probably wait to hear back from others first.
[20:14] <komsas> oh, you are right .
[20:15] <godbyk> mcqr: Thanks for your suggestion.  I think someone emailed the list earlier today with the same suggestion and the author of that chapter made a note of it.
[20:16] <godbyk> mcqr: Here were the suggestions made on the list earlier: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg00659.html
[20:16] <godbyk> Feel free to write in to the list with more recommendations, as well!
[20:17] <thorwil> strange. the fonts Free Helvetian/Paladin/Schoolbook have copyright tags like this: Copyright (URW)++,Copyright 1999 by (URW)++ Design
[20:17] <thorwil> but they're all from some free fonts debian/ubuntu package
[20:17] <godbyk> thorwil: What's strange about it?
[20:18] <thorwil> godbyk: just a (c) with no license terms usually means all rights restricted
[20:19] <godbyk> thorwil: Ah, I've noticed most fonts' copyright terms (the stuff embedded in the ttf/otf file) are often out-of-sync with the license they've been released under.
[20:19] <thorwil> godbyk: i' trying to assemble a list of fonts suitable for body text and maybe title page
[20:20] <thorwil> fontmatrix is being a great help, but some font-metadata isn't what it should be, obviously :)
[20:20] <godbyk> thorwil: Cool! I'm trying to find appropriate fonts for all the languages we're supporting.. and people keep translating it to even more languages!
[20:20] <godbyk> fontmatrix is pretty awesome.
[20:20] <godbyk> will it let you filter by script (language)?
[20:21] <thorwil> version 0.6 is indeed awesome, the one from karmic not
[20:21] <godbyk> I'm running the svn version.
[20:22] <thorwil> godbyk: i see no sign of filtering by script
[20:22] <godbyk> Darn.  That'd really help me out.
[20:22] <godbyk> I've been running otfinfo -s and grep to find fonts and it's, well, sub-optimal. :)
[20:26] <thorwil> godbyk: any clue on the differences between the 4 gentium variants?
[20:29] <godbyk> thorwil: Looks like the Book variant is a bit bolder than the others.
[20:30] <godbyk> Otherwise, there's some difference in the Unicode coverage as well.
[20:31] <godbyk> From the site: "The 'Basic' fonts only support a limited Latin character set (no Greek or Cyrillic). Gentium Book is a new companion family to Gentium that is altogether slightly heavier, and better suited for some publishing needs."
[21:02] <thorwil> Charis SIL renders very good in fontmatrix
[21:06] <thorwil> MgOpen fonts all seem to have some problems leading to missing characters or bad kerning
[21:28]  * dutchie gets round to updating the translations
[21:42] <godbyk> dutchie: Does it still wipe out the translations when we update them?
[21:42] <dutchie> all the ones that have changed
[21:42] <dutchie> which will be most of them considering how long it's been since I updated them
[21:51] <dutchie> humphreybc: thanks for warning me about doing a talk :P
[21:51] <humphreybc> dutchie: yep thought i'd give everyone plenty of warning :P
[21:51] <dutchie> first I heard was in the announcement
[21:51] <humphreybc> you don't have to if you don't want to, but I just thought i'd jot down the main people and see how we go
[21:52] <dutchie> it's fine, it was just a bit of a shock seeing it in the announcement before anywhere else
[21:52] <humphreybc> yeah I'm going to talk through it with you guys at the meeting tomorrow
[21:53] <humphreybc> what do you think of the idea?
[21:53] <dutchie> seems cool
[21:55] <humphreybc> swell
[21:55] <humphreybc> hopefully it'll teach people like Wendy some latex so she can commit herself without sending stuff to Ilya
[21:55] <humphreybc> and if we teach everyone Ground Control that would be awesome
[21:55] <dutchie> we can play with lernid too :)
[21:56] <humphreybc> yep!
[21:56] <humphreybc> It's good because Jono and Martin want testers for Lernid and Ground Control
[21:56] <dutchie> something of a jono-endorsed dev tools fest
[21:56] <humphreybc> and we're a big project, so basically we get kudos for testing their stuff, and it benefits our team as well
[21:56] <dutchie> humphreybc: I updated the translations tonight
[21:57] <humphreybc> yep i saw that, hey did you just get the email from komsas about structuring translations?
[21:57] <dutchie> I bet we get a massive load of people complaining that everything changed
[21:57] <dutchie> I did see it
[21:58] <humphreybc> have another look, i just replied and he replied
[21:58] <humphreybc> sounds like a good idea, but we'll have to tell the translators somehow
[21:58] <humphreybc> and they're going to have to set up teams and all that
[21:58] <dutchie> https://help.launchpad.net/Translations/YourProject/PermissionPolicies
[21:59] <humphreybc> ah
[21:59] <humphreybc> "Anyone can suggest a translation for those languages, though."
[21:59] <humphreybc> "For languages that aren't covered by a translation group, anyone can
[21:59] <humphreybc> directly submit a translation."
[21:59] <humphreybc> so it won't be that bad
[22:00]  * dutchie is exhauste
[22:00] <dutchie> d
[22:00] <humphreybc> what time is it?
[22:00] <dutchie> 10 pm
[22:00] <humphreybc> gotcha
[22:00] <humphreybc> 11am here
[22:00] <humphreybc> on saturday
[22:00] <humphreybc> righto i think we'll switch to structured
[22:00] <humphreybc> i'll email the team
[22:01] <dutchie> I fixed the planet too
[22:01] <komsas> Hi guys, I see that lithuanian translations is assigned to lithuanian ubuntu translation team, I'm in this team, so for us is everythink ok if you change permission. It will be good action.
[22:03] <humphreybc> okay cool
[22:04] <humphreybc> komsas: i'm just doing that now
[22:05] <komsas> I don't know how, but I would like to clean all translations from that user who made mess.
[22:05] <humphreybc> komsas: nice work on the lithuanian wiki page
[22:05] <komsas> thanks ;)
[22:06] <humphreybc> I can't read lithuanian but it looks good :)
[22:06] <dutchie> komsas: if you just find their translations on translations.launchpad.net, you should be able to retranslate them
[22:07]  * humphreybc changes to structured
[22:09]  * humphreybc prays that the translators don't explode
[22:11] <komsas> I see that I'm not first talking about permissions so everybody will be happy
[22:13] <humphreybc> oh are more people wanting structured?
[22:13] <humphreybc> i have to admit I have been very ignorant with translations
[22:14] <humphreybc> I haven't taken much time to understand how they actually work, or to set up a proper structure
[22:14] <humphreybc> but it's great that you've come forward to talk to the rest of the team komsas - we normally hardly hear from translators!
[22:15] <komsas>  godbyk said today that someone was writing about it in mailing list.
[22:15] <dutchie> humphreybc: are we going to be using #ubuntu-classroom for the 48 hours thing?
[22:15] <humphreybc> maybe but I think we could have it all in Lernid?
[22:15] <komsas> humphreybc: I think from alhpa more people will come..
[22:16] <dutchie> humphreybc: lernid just acts as a pretty front-end to IRC
[22:16] <dutchie> I'm updating the wiki now
[22:16] <humphreybc> ah right, well yes #ubuntu-classroom will be good
[22:16] <dutchie> people can still use old-fashioned clients if they like :)
[22:16] <humphreybc> either there or in our chat room
[22:17] <humphreybc> wow. my server has uploaded 627mb of stuff in the last 12 hours since omgubuntu blogged about the alpha. Which means about 300 people have downloaded our alpha manual
[22:17] <dutchie> blimey
[22:17] <humphreybc> yea
[22:18] <humphreybc> good thing i'm on unlimited internet now!
[22:18] <dutchie> actual unlimited unlimited?
[22:19] <humphreybc> yep
[22:20] <humphreybc> telecom big time
[22:20] <humphreybc> it's traffic managed between 9-5, but it's still fairly quick
[22:20] <humphreybc> and at night it's nice and fast AND unlimited bandwidth
[22:21] <humphreybc> for some reason my server has some sort of memory leak: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/phpsysinfo
[22:21] <dutchie> wow
[22:21] <dutchie> checked [h]top?
[22:21] <humphreybc> check out the uptime, but then look at the physical memory usage and the network usage
[22:22] <dutchie> rubbish uptime :P
[22:22] <dutchie>  22:22:11 up 10 days, 51 min,  5 users,  load average: 0.56, 0.40, 0.35
[22:22] <humphreybc> haha yeah
[22:22] <komsas> I'm thinking how to get rid of bad translations. Main thing is that now showing that we are translated ~50% of content, but in real there are only 2-3%.
[22:22] <humphreybc> it was up a month before i restarted yesterday
[22:22] <humphreybc> my friend came to stay and he slept in the server room (lounge) so I turned it off at night so it wouldn't keep him awake
[22:22] <dutchie> humphreybc: it's sad when you have to do that
[22:23] <humphreybc> komsas: I think you'll probably just have to go through and overwrite what he's done
[22:23] <humphreybc> dutchie: nothing showing in top
[22:23] <komsas> I cant to make it back to clean position.
[22:23] <komsas> ;/
[22:23] <dutchie> komsas: I somewhat doubt many will be left once the new template imports :)
[22:24] <humphreybc> dutchie: i think phpsysinfo is reporting it wrong
[22:24] <dutchie> komsas: but if you go to https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+pots/ubuntu-manual/lt/+translate then you can set the dodgy ones back to empty (or a proper translation)
[22:24] <humphreybc> memory usage only shows 95mb / 497
[22:24] <humphreybc> perhaps phpsysinfo adds the memory usage up instead of having it in real time... which would be a bug
[22:31] <humphreybc> links are href right?
[22:31] <dutchie> <a href="target">text</a>
[22:35] <humphreybc> nah for latex. i worked it out, \url
[22:40] <humphreybc> godbyk: ping
[22:41] <godbyk> humphreybc: pong
[22:41] <humphreybc> have you used agave before to match colour schemes?
[22:41] <humphreybc> i'm going to plug in some of our colours to see what it comes up with
[22:42] <godbyk> I have, yeah.
[22:42] <godbyk> humphreybc: here are the ubuntu colors, fwiw: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official
[22:43] <humphreybc> oh wow
[22:43] <humphreybc> i thought that UbuntuRed looks way too bright
[22:44] <humphreybc> UbuntuMaroon maybe? :P
[22:45] <godbyk> yeah, I think the red is too bright.
[22:45] <godbyk> looking at this color palette, I like the accent red base or the accent deep red: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Official?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ubuntu-palette.png
[22:46] <godbyk> you want the color to look dark when printed in b&w, too.
[22:47] <humphreybc> accent deep red for URLs and accent red base for sections?
[22:47] <humphreybc> then something like Accent yellow shadow for subsections
[22:48] <humphreybc> and Human base for subsubsections?
[22:49] <humphreybc> try those out and see how they look
[22:49] <humphreybc> :D
[22:49] <godbyk> I don't think we need different colors for sections and subsections.
[22:50] <humphreybc> yeah you're probably right
[22:50] <humphreybc> so chapter headings are in black, sections in accent deep red and URLs in red base?
[22:51] <humphreybc> or swap the URL and sections colours. probably doesn't matter that much
[22:51] <godbyk> we'll see.  I'm need to sit down and read what folks have written so I can start the new design soon.
[22:51] <humphreybc> cool
[22:51] <humphreybc> how is the font hunting going?
[22:52] <godbyk> Well, I've been stuck on the Telugu script for a while, but I'm going to move on and look at the other translations.
[22:53] <humphreybc> cool
[22:53] <godbyk> I'd like to have the translated manuals be as well-designed (typographically speaking) as the English manual.
[22:54] <godbyk> Unfortunately, I only speak English, so I'll be relying on the translators for some help there.
[22:55] <godbyk> Speaking of fonts, I just got some new font specimens in the mail today.
[22:55] <godbyk> Pretty.
[22:55] <godbyk> Too bad I have no money. :-(
[22:56] <humphreybc> how much are fonts?
[22:58] <godbyk> It varies quite a bit, but it's not unusual to see a family go for a few hundred bucks.
[22:58] <godbyk> (US$)
[23:09] <humphreybc> eek