[00:28] <ScottL> !packaging
[00:33] <ScottL> persia: a couple of points about celtx - the version in REVU apparently has appreciable changes to the source code that aren't documented in the change file
[00:33] <ScottL> i'd already started talking to the original packager about getting it into ubuntu but his hard drive had broken and wasn't available to help at that time
[00:34] <ScottL> the version in REVU is 2.0 and 2.7 is out (9 months old) but I realize that it's important to just get it accepted and then we can update it
[00:34] <persia> Um, no.
[00:35] <persia> Better to update it and then get it accepted.
[00:35] <persia> No new upstream versions after feature freeze.
[00:35] <persia> If we miss feature freeze, it would be good to work with Debian Multimedia to get it into Debian, and we'd sync next time.
[00:36] <ScottL> speaking of Debian Multimedia, that reminds me to send an email about Hydrogen 0.9.4
[00:39] <persia> :)
[00:42] <ScottL_> persia: i see that JACK in the main bug is "triaged"...what exactly does that mean?  someone has loooked at it?
[00:43] <persia> That person was me, but that wasn't the MIR bug.
[00:43] <persia> That's just an extra bug about jack-in-main.  We undrestand the issue very well, hence "triaged".
[00:46] <ScottL_> gotcha
[00:47] <ScottL_> if the proper course is to get the new version of celtx into ubuntu then I really doubt it will happen before the FF
[00:48] <ScottL_> unless someone really experienced looks at it...it's build on mozilla build
[00:49] <ScottL_> but as you suggested I can try talking to debian multimedia about it also
[00:50] <persia> That's probably the best path.  You might also look for help from the folks in #ubuntu-mozillateam, but they tend to be fairly busy.
[01:01] <persia> ScottL_: s/Ubuntu Developers/Ubuntu Studio Developers/ for next time :)
[01:06] <ScottL_> doh, yeah sorry, trying to get things done with kids interrupting me
[01:09] <persia> Heh.  Understood.  I just don't like to say "Ubuntu Developers want to do X" because it's rarely true that there is sufficient consensus for that to be the case :)
[01:09] <persia> OK.  All JACK bugs triaged except the crashes, and I don't feel like digging through those right now.  Maybe later in the cycle.
[01:10] <persia> With luck, having everything triaged will help demonstrate support for the MIR>
[01:10] <ScottL> wife is an RN and doesn't leave work until at least 7:30pm so I'm keeping up with kids, cooking dinner, helping with homework...keeps me moving around for several hours ;P
[01:10]  * persia has already poked one MIR person, and may poke another soon
[01:10] <persia> Exercise is good :)
[01:11] <ScottL> re; ubuntu developer, should I send another email to clarify or think most people won't even notice?
[01:11] <persia> I'd not send clarification unless someone asks.
[01:12] <ScottL> after my wife gets home tonight (if she doesn't do it too late) i'm going to spend an hour working on the copyright for zynjacku
[01:12] <persia> Cool.
[01:13] <ScottL> so working on bugs = fixing the problem, creating debdiff and then submitting patch to bug ?
[01:13] <persia> Sometimes.
[01:13] <persia> Sometimes it's just triage.
[01:13] <persia> Sometimes it's sending patches upstream.
[01:14] <persia> Depends on the nature of the issue, etc.
[01:18] <ScottL> after lucid is released I might try to do some bug work
[01:19] <ScottL> i figured to be successful (or actually helpful) took experience that I didn't have and decided that packaging was like working in a void (a good one) because noone was "depending" on me
[01:19] <persia> heh, and now you7re being depended upon for packaging :)
[01:20] <persia> But after Feature Freeze, most of the development work is bugwork, so I hope you'll help get the software in shape for release.
[01:20] <ScottL> well, yeah, but my own initiative did that ;P    i could have quitely worked on packages without committing
[01:20] <persia> Lots of bugs are already fixed, or have fixes submitted by the bug submitters.
[01:20] <persia> Or fixes available upstream.
[01:21] <persia> so it's sometimes just a matter of reading the bug, finding the patch, testing the patch, preparing a package including the patch, and getting it uploaded.
[01:21] <persia> actually writing patches happens sometimes, but don't let concern over writing patches block you from looking at bugs.
[01:24] <ScottL_> hydrogen:  not only did I email but I'm in #debian-multimedia (OFTC) channel also, if no response in a few days I'll try to contact Free or someone directly
[01:25] <persia> Makes sense.
[01:25] <persia> free used to hang out in this channel, but I suspect the lack of time got to him.
[01:27] <ScottL> it would be considerably awesome to establish a substantial and sustainable working relationship with them :)
[01:28] <ScottL> maybe even dividing up work if we get more or more able packagers
[01:29] <persia> No reason to do that.
[01:29] <persia> Instead of thinking of "group working with group", consider "people working as part of groups".
[01:29] <persia> So one person can be active in both areas.
[01:30] <persia> Except for the special packages needed for branding, etc., nearly all packaging should be done in Debian Multimedia.
[01:30] <persia> Well, there's some patches we need to carry because some bits are a little different, but those are really very minor.
[01:31] <persia> So, if you're interested in packaging and package maintenance, and interested in helping Studio, working in Debian Multimedia is a good way to do that.
[01:32] <ScottL_> i've considered also joining Debian Multimedia but thought I should gain more experience and knowledge first
[01:32] <persia> Sure.  No reason not to do that.
[01:33] <persia> I'm just saying that the model of having individuals working as members of multiple (often cooperative) teams tends to be easier than the model of individuals working exclusively within teams and building relationships between teams.
[01:33] <persia> Avoids most of the potential "us vs. them" distinctions.
[01:34] <ScottL_> well that certainly makes sense
[02:08] <persia> ScottL_: I'm having browser issues: neither of the browsers I typically use seems to be able to get a good patch from http://trac.jackaudio.org/changeset/3848 ; do you think you could extract one?
[02:08] <persia> If not, I'll go find someone else.
[02:10] <ScottL_> sure, i'll try
[02:11] <ScottL_> i see a changelog and a jackalsadriver.cpp file, which do you want? or both?
[02:13] <ScottL_> persia: i can also download the unified diff or a zip file
[02:14] <persia> unified diff please :)
[02:15] <ScottL_> can I use pastebin to get it to you? or how else?
[02:17] <persia> If you could attach it to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/jack-audio-connection-kit/+bug/494223 , it would be best.
[02:17] <persia> (that's the bug it fixes)
[02:18] <TheMuso> what patch are we trying to fetch?
[02:18] <persia> http://trac.jackaudio.org/changeset/3848
[02:18] <ScottL_> I wasn't able to download an actual file, but rather text (i fear this was the problem you were having)
[02:19] <ScottL_> well, text in the browser
[02:19] <persia> I want to read it.  It's *supposed* to handle resampling inside jack somehow.
[02:19] <persia> But I haven't read it yet, because I can7t load that page in my browsers.
[02:19] <TheMuso> oh
[02:20] <persia> ScottL_: If you got a bunch of text that claimed to be a unified diff, that's precisely what I'd prefer.
[02:20] <ScottL_> i have the text, how do you want it?
[02:22] <persia> attach it to the bug :)
[02:22] <persia> Or stick it in a pastebin, and I'll do that.
[02:23] <ScottL_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/374377/
[02:23] <persia> Thank you :)
[02:23] <ScottL_> sorry i wasn't quicker, two year old is being needy
[02:24] <persia> No worries.  You've made possible what was previously difficult.
[02:24] <ScottL_> i'll see how you attached it to the bug later as i'm guessing you are going to save the file as a patch and attach it but I don't know how you would name it
[02:25] <TheMuso> persia: If its not useful, I have an svn checkout of jack2 here and I can pull the diff right from it if thats easier/better/cleaner.
[02:25] <ScottL_> away for a bit with son
[02:25] <persia> TheMuso: The pastebin is very readable for me: I'm just trying to understand it.
[02:26] <persia> TheMuso: If you understand the code, it's the only bug against jack that has a potential solution indicated in LP that isn't fixed.
[02:26]  * persia was trying to trim the bug list to look nice for the MIR.
[02:27] <persia> TheMuso: I don't expect you'd have a lot of time for it for the next 4-5 hours at least, but let me know if you think it would be easy to review (as I've never before looked at the JACK code)
[02:28] <TheMuso> persia: I have never looked at jack code either, and no I'm busy for the next few hours.
[02:30] <TheMuso> Speaking of jack2, I was talking to Conor at the sprint about how we need to sort out package names with Debian. If I was to kick that discussion off, would people here be interested in participating?
[02:30] <persia> TheMuso: Ah, I thought you might have because of the checkout :)  No worries, I'll leave you to work, and see if I can use the patch to cause a noticeable behaviour change that makes things better.
[02:31] <TheMuso> persia: No I had it lying around for another reason, probably packaging related from some time back.
[02:31]  * persia doesn't really have enough background
[02:31] <persia> Were I trying to push jack2, I'd probably start by asking for free's opinion/
[02:32] <TheMuso> Agreed.
[02:32] <persia> pity we didn't catch him at UDS :(
[02:33] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[02:42] <persia> hansfbaier: Hey.
[02:42] <hansfbaier> persia: Yes?
[02:43] <persia> hansfbaier: Just hadn't seen your nick recently, but had been trying to get someone to review libprolooks1
[02:43] <hansfbaier> Ah, thanks.
[02:43] <hansfbaier> persia: ^
[02:44] <hansfbaier> persia: It probably would need a performance fix for the buttons, but I am pretty short of time ATM
[02:45] <persia> hansfbaier: No worries.  My hope is to just get it *in* Ubuntu for now.
[02:45] <persia> Once it's in, we can get more testers, and some bugs, and look at how to make it better.
[02:45] <persia> (and maybe then you'll have time again)
[02:45] <hansfbaier> persia: I hope I corrected all major packaging errors.... Yes, I know, the READMEs are a bit sparse....
[02:46] <hansfbaier> persia: My next big thing for libprolooks will be a patcher widget.
[02:46] <hansfbaier> persia: To make jackpanel be able to do patching also.
[02:47] <persia> something like patchage, but from the panel?
[02:47] <hansfbaier> persia: Yes, but it will be visually more like a real studio patchbay.
[02:47] <hansfbaier> With jacks and cables
[02:48] <hansfbaier> persia: Well like wiring real equipment together.
[02:48] <persia> Right.  I'll be curious to see it, although I'll admit to liking a sparse interface for lots of things :)
[02:49] <hansfbaier> persia: I hope I can make it simple and very usable though....
[02:50] <hansfbaier> persia: patchage looks nice, but isn't as useable as I'd like to have.
[02:50] <hansfbaier> persia: One of the main features is that it will group multiple channel connections from one device to another together and thus making
[02:51] <hansfbaier> persia: it visually much more tidy and informative
[02:51] <hansfbaier> persia: that would appear like a multicore cable
[02:51] <persia> tidiness sounds excellent.
[02:52] <persia> I worried that the graphics for the draped cables might obscure the jacks, but it sounds like you have a plan for that already.
[02:53] <hansfbaier> persia: both qjackctl and patchage look a bit messy with a lot of channels and connections.
[02:56] <persia> I can't use the qjackctl patchbay at all.  It gets too messy too quickly.
[02:57] <persia> With patchage, I can usually come up with a sane map, but it requires it's own virtual desktop.
[02:57] <persia> Something in the panel that appears and disappears is very appealing.
[03:18] <hansfbaier> persia: Yes, that's what I had i mind.
[07:07] <abogani> I'm on the outside, I'm looking in, I can see through you, See your true colors, Cause inside you're ugly, You're Ugly like me, I can see through you, See to the real you (Staind - Outside) 
[10:48] <abogani> stochastic: Are you around?
[10:48] <stochastic> only for a few minutes
[10:49] <abogani> Ok so next time :-)
[10:51] <stochastic> why? complex issue?
[10:52] <abogani> stochastic: No issue at all
[10:52] <abogani> stochastic: I just discovered by chance that you are a processing user. 
[10:52] <abogani> Processing
[10:52] <stochastic> sort of.
[10:53] <stochastic> I've done very little with the language, but have read up on it
[10:53] <abogani> Ah Ok. I supposed that you are interested on it.
[10:53] <abogani> more
[10:54] <stochastic> yeah, interactive art programming is kinda where I love to geek out the most
[10:55] <stochastic> ChucK is my favorite language right now.
[10:56] <abogani> Just curious (only because I'm an Arduino user).... ChucK's URL? 
[10:56] <stochastic> http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu
[10:56]  * stochastic has yet to dive into Arduino...
[10:57] <stochastic> Anyways, I should probably be off to bed now. Big day tomorrow.
[10:57] <abogani> Ok! Ciao
[10:57] <abogani> Good night!
[10:58] <stochastic> night.
[17:03] <abogani> TheMuso: Are you around?
[17:04]  * abogani is stupid never remember the Luke's TZ! :-(
[17:05] <persia> 4:00 there
[17:06] <abogani> indeed
[17:19] <abogani> ScottL ScottL_ ScottL__: Please don't forget the email
[17:22] <abogani> No way Tim Gardner don't want release a i386 preempt kernel...
[17:28] <ScottL__> abogani: i am taking lunch from work in thirty minutes and was planning on replying to the email during that time :)
[17:30] <abogani> ScottL__: Ok sorry to bother you.
[17:34] <ScottL__> abogani:  it's okay, you're not bothering me :)
[17:37] <ScottL__> abogani:  and sorry that you had to use three of my names!  LOL
[18:25] <ScottL__> hmmm, was going to tell abogani that the email was sent, but it appears that he isn't here (which explains why auto-complete tab didn't work now or earlier)