[12:33] hmm, merging in all these new translations is going to take ages [12:33] hmm === dutchie changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | Next meeting: http://linkpot.net/sorrows/ in #ubuntu-meeting at 2000 UTC [17:32] * dutchie has realised why he should update the translations regularly [17:32] bloody *enormous* merge conflicts to resolve [17:34] 36 .po files with conflicts to resolve [17:38] \o/ shortcut found and utilised [18:37] hello the meeting has to be moved it think because there is a meeting booked in #ubuntu-meeting and its not the ubuntu manual project [18:37] am i right? [18:38] http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar ubuntu meeting channel schedule [18:39] we could have it in here instead [18:39] we've got MootBot [18:39] * dutchie makes an executive decision [18:39] I thought that shall i mail the list === dutchie changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | Next meeting: http://linkpot.net/sorrows/ in here at 2000 UTC [18:40] I'll do it, it's fine [18:40] thanks I didn't want to do it my self with out mentioning it here first [18:43] shall i do the wiki dutchie? [18:43] too slow :) [19:02] quick thought ... are we using Oxford commas? [19:04] godbyk: you would be the best person to answer this. [19:11] editors would be better [19:11] I forget who the head of editing is thoug [19:11] h [19:13] jamin day, perhaps? i feel like i've gotten most editing emails from him [19:13] might be [19:16] well, i don't know if i can make the meeting later, but i'll least leave xchat running and be back in a bit [19:25] I was going to ask the oxford comma question nice ask! I will ask in the meeting if you are not there bvb [20:00] hmmm, where is benjamin? we need to start soon [20:01] doesn't seem to be around [20:01] meh ok [20:02] we should wait 5 mins and then start you reckon? [20:02] yeah [20:02] kk good plan [20:02] Just checked Google Buzz...Benjamin isn't online [20:02] hehe he must be busy [20:03] or asleep :) [20:03] I hope his new ISP hasn't goofed up on him ;) [20:04] yea true but he shouldnt be asleep since its 4am for me and hes 3 hours ahead [20:05] do we have an emergency backup chair, or shall I step in? [20:05] hi everyobe [20:05] everone [20:05] hi voxwoman [20:05] nisshh: wouldn't that make it 7am on a sunday for him? excusable if so... [20:06] right, any objections to starting without humphreybc? [20:07] I think we should wait 5 more mins [20:07] and i was worried about coming late [20:08] we should probably get started... [20:08] 3 [20:08] 2 [20:08] 1 [20:08] #startmeeting [20:08] Meeting started at 14:08. The chair is dutchie. [20:08] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [20:08] Everyone here, say PRESENT then [20:09] PRESENT [20:09] PRESENT [20:09] PRESENT [20:09] present [20:09] PRESENT [20:09] PRESENT [20:09] OK first topic [20:09] PRESENT [20:09] [TOPIC] 48 hours of Ubuntu Manual learning [20:09] New Topic: 48 hours of Ubuntu Manual learning [20:10] PRESENT [20:10] So, as I understand it, this is an UbuntuOpenWeek style affair to help folks learn about how the manual works [20:11] Tonight, we need to make a start on organising timings and making sure everyone knows what's going on [20:11] this is something I need so I can be more productive with the group [20:11] we might want some more events otherwise each will be 2 hours long [20:11] does anyone have any suggestions for more events? [20:12] I think the intention was to do each one twice to give more people a chance to sit in [20:12] im happy to do one but im not sure what is left [20:12] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/48hours [20:12] see that page for more info [20:12] yes its over 2 days after all [20:12] I think the times might need sorting by the people doing it depending on their time zones. [20:13] this is definitely true [20:13] yes but its better if they are one after the other [20:13] not scattered [20:13] nisshh: definitely [20:13] so they probably just need reordering [20:14] OK, humphreybc, godbyk, JaminDay, thorwil, myself, IlyaHaykinson are scheduled to give talks [20:14] dutchie: it's a mistake if i'm still on that list [20:14] that's what it says on the wiki [20:14] thorwil: you oped out? [20:14] yes [20:14] * thorwil fixes wiki [20:14] do we have any other artists to cover that? [20:15] hmmm well im not on the artwork team [20:15] the OpenWeek and DeveloperWeek normally run from 1600UTC [20:15] and that is a better session time for me too [20:16] we need nine hours that work for people who are doing it. What time zones are those people in? [20:16] i see no need or use in covering artwork there [20:16] thorwil: what makes you say that? [20:16] we need to cover screenshot taking [20:17] since most writers will help out with that too [20:17] dutchie: it's very unlikely anyone joins the effort who couldn't be instructed if it happens [20:17] OK, we could replace that with screenshot taking [20:18] all agreed? [20:18] have we got the guidelines for screenshot size and whatnot decided yet though? [20:18] the Docs team have official guidelines [20:18] might as well use them [20:18] jaminday: hi [20:18] dutchie: those that say 8bit? [20:18] we're discussing the 48 hours thing [20:18] hi there [20:18] yes good point [20:19] thorwil: are they? hadn't looked myself [20:19] but we should make sure they fit with out layout [20:19] our layout [20:19] ah cool. Sorry i slept in! [20:19] that's godbyk's area [20:19] it shouldn't be too hard [20:20] also if thorwil wishes not to cover the screenshots section i will stick my hand up [20:20] nisshh: cool, as i indeed don't intend to [20:21] OK, nisshh can do a talk on screenshots [20:21] [ACTION] nisshh to do a talk on taking screenshots to replace the art team one [20:21] ACTION received: nisshh to do a talk on taking screenshots to replace the art team one [20:21] provided we know what we want until then? [20:22] we'll have another meeting by then [20:22] I'm here now. [20:22] Totally forgot abut the mtg, sorry. [20:22] so, are there times that people could/couldn't do? [20:22] we're looking at Monday/Tuesday afternoon/evening, UTC [20:23] speak up :) [20:24] OK, I'll go first then [20:24] I can do 1600 UTC 2300 UTC Monday [20:24] it'd probably be best to start off with humphreybc's intro both days [20:24] evening UTC is better for me. [20:25] shall we kick off at 1600 then? [20:25] I'll set the intro talks for then [20:25] if we're all agreed [20:25] sounds good to me [20:26] yes sorry i got distracted [20:26] 1600 utc is good [20:26] [ACTION] dutchie to set the start time as 1600UTC and schedule humphreybc's intro for then [20:26] ACTION received: dutchie to set the start time as 1600UTC and schedule humphreybc's intro for then [20:26] ok, godbyk [20:27] Should the talks be at different times for both days for people in different time zones. e.f. 1600 UTC Monday and 0400UTC Tuesday. [20:27] KelvinGardiner: I was about to make that point [20:27] same [20:27] I agree. [20:28] also whoever just edited the wiki just removed my talk slot [20:28] this is a bit tricky as benjamin is doing half the talks and we don't know when he's free [20:28] ill add it back in now though [20:29] godbyk: would you be good to go at 1700 on the monday, and say 2000 on the tuesday? [20:29] If Benjamin does the first day, someone else can repeat what he covers if he not about on the second day. [20:29] hmm [20:29] http://etherpad.com/ov6YwNDcDi [20:29] LINK received: http://etherpad.com/ov6YwNDcDi [20:29] dutchie: That should be fine, yeah. [20:29] might be easier to knock up a schedule on there [20:30] id be happy with anything up to 1900 on either day [20:30] shouldn't the times be more apart to allow for other time zones? [20:31] the open week is normally done every hour [20:31] yeah the first i could do would be 0530 UTC on tuesday [20:31] or 0600 tuesday [20:31] I was basing it on that pretty closely [20:31] 99% of people get to open week too [20:31] stick ideas and preferred times on the etherpad [20:31] their times work well [20:32] if monday starts at 1600 then tuesday should be at 0400. every hour makes sense [20:32] exactly, that's why I was stealing their idea [20:37] Any possibility of converting slide shows to a You-Tube movie format, or making the slides with lecture notes available for download from the Wiki? You know, just in case someone can't attend a lecture but wants the info. [20:37] we'll put logs up for those that can't make it [20:42] OK, we're going to move on from scheduling the 48 hours [20:42] it's not done, but keep looking at it when you can. [20:42] ok [20:42] feel free to edit the etherpad - it's easier to do than with a wiki [20:43] OK, next topic [20:43] [TOPIC] BETA Release milestones [20:43] next item? [20:43] New Topic: BETA Release milestones [20:43] OK, beta is scheduled for the 18th of March [20:44] which is the same day as Lucid beta iirc [20:44] "In this release, the content of the manual should represent what it will look like in the final release - all references, links and images should be in place, and final formatting, color scheme and styles should start to take shape. Translations should be well on their way to completion." [20:44] is what the wiki says [20:44] I don't think much needs to be said about that, just get your heads down and work away on it [20:44] all images in place might become fun [20:45] we can discuss screenshots next time round [20:45] anybody else got anything to say on the beta? [20:45] The alpha release seems to have a lot of information. Tweaking shouldn't be much of a problem [20:45] nope [20:45] We should also make sure the translations are set up to work smoothly. [20:46] godbyk: yeah, I think I've got a better workflow set up for those now [20:46] Is there a list of needed screenshots? [20:46] And from the formatting side, too, so we have appropriate fonts and designs for each translated language. [20:46] KelvinGardiner: Some are listed in comments in the .tex files [20:47] if editors can mark where screenshots are needed with some suitable comment, that'd be useful [20:47] editing has been slower than hoped so far while waiting on content but hopefully now that there is more it will pick up [20:47] I will create a \screenshotTODO{Description of the required screenshot.} command today that we can start using as a placeholder. [20:47] most are [20:47] a global list, with one person assigned to screenshots, might be useful [20:47] That'll make it easier to track what screenshots we need. [20:47] yes agreed [20:47] godbyk - can that placeholder be explained in our wiki somewhere? [20:47] godbyk: good plan. [20:47] We can have the \screenshotTODO command barf out a plain text file containing the list of required screenshots, too. [20:47] cool [20:47] OK, so shall we say editors comment up the screenshots for next week [20:47] jaminday: Sure. After I've written it. :) [20:48] godbyk: is that needed? [20:48] godbyk: surely just a comment could be grepped and perled into a text file [20:48] no worries [20:48] The comments are less structured, whereas the command can insert a placeholder graphic and make a true list of screenshots we still need to get. [20:49] cool [20:49] godbyk: if you think that'd help [20:49] also comments marking screenshots tend to get lost in the sea of other comments [20:49] whereas a command would be more obvious [20:49] It'll also help with getting a page count and an idea of the final PDF file size. [20:49] yeah, i think it'd help [20:50] [ACTION] godbyk to do a \screenshotTODO command to insert placeholder text and produce a list of required screenshots [20:50] ACTION received: godbyk to do a \screenshotTODO command to insert placeholder text and produce a list of required screenshots [20:50] would it make sense to have a specific screenshot team (operating with the master list)...? [20:50] I think just everyone who can does screenshots :) [20:51] ok [20:51] anything else on the beta? [20:51] good plan [20:51] i take it specifics (res, etc.) are for next meeting? [20:51] or just "later' :) [20:51] next meeting [20:51] ok [20:52] moving on then [20:52] [TOPIC] Ubuntu Manual Global Jam [20:52] New Topic: Ubuntu Manual Global Jam [20:52] Who here is planning to go to a Jam? [20:52] Who here knows what a Jam is? [20:52] ;) [20:52] well i dont know much about it to be honest [20:52] nope never heard of it [20:52] lol [20:53] its kind of like a sprint isnt it? [20:53] basically, yes [20:53] one moment, I'll pull up a link [20:53] cool ok and how do we collaborate? [20:53] ok [20:53] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam [20:54] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam/Events [20:54] check on there for one near you [20:54] but not many up yet [20:55] basically, we need to publicise the manual as something to work on during the jam [20:55] hehe none where i live [20:55] probably worth checking later on [20:56] if you can, go along to one and spread the word [20:56] ok, is a Jam over irc? [20:56] no, meeting up in a room somewhere [20:56] What are the discrete tasks that we want people to help with on the manual? [20:56] doing screenshots by then, probably [20:56] translations too [20:56] nisshh: I think the docs team do a jam via irc. [20:56] ah right [20:57] we will have to then too since we all live far apart [20:57] nisshh: the idea is you go to one near you, and meet up with like-minded folks [20:57] yea i get it now [20:58] we could probably say more nearer the time [20:59] 26th - 28th March 2010 if I didn't mention it [21:00] Can we keep moving? I have to head off in about 10mins -ish [21:00] yep, sure [21:00] sorry didn't mean to sound pushy ;) [21:00] [TOPIC] Artwork icons [21:00] New Topic: Artwork icons [21:00] OK, not quite sure what this topic is about [21:00] Anybody else know? [21:01] i think something to do with icons for each chapter or something? [21:01] Chapter icons, I believe [21:01] jaminday: before you run off (sorry to be off-topic), we were wondering about Oxford commas ... [21:01] I guess its about the icons like the warning one [21:01] ahh, good thinking bvb [21:01] yea hard to say wiht benjamin [21:01] without [21:02] bvb: yes i hadn't forgotten about that - sorry i never replied to your email i was hoping to get some consensus from the US folk around here as to what is standard [21:02] I vote for serial commas. Reduces ambiguity. [21:02] godbyk: agreed that would be my preference [21:02] godbyk: also agreed [21:02] OK, that was quick and easy :) [21:03] excellent :) [21:03] dutchie: sorry didn't mean to hijack the meeting! [21:03] [ACTION] serial commas to be used throughout [21:03] ACTION received: serial commas to be used throughout [21:03] jaminday: don't worry, it's fine [21:03] ok, back to chapter icons [21:03] Icons could refer to those we might put on the title page [21:03] and/or those to be used as mark inside [21:04] I have no idea what this is about to be honest [21:04] defer it until we've got someone who knows what it is? [21:04] we do still need to find an icon to introduce the warning paragraphs and whatever the other one was.. advanced or expert maybe? [21:04] we need a Q&A "Ask benjamin what the hell he means!" [21:04] perhaps we should have someone from the design team do some mock-ups to give us some idea [21:05] there must be that sort of thing hanging around [21:05] yes good idea [21:05] ie liaise with benjamin so we have something concrete to discuss next meeting [21:05] jaminday: if the design team can do mockups, you don't need ideas ... [21:05] we could probably grab one out of GNOME if it came to it [21:05] there is a warning icon in the graphics folder [21:05] thorwil: sorry i meant have an idea of what we are talking about here [21:05] OK, this isn't working out :) [21:06] Deal with it next time? [21:06] we simply need a list with descriptions of what we need icons for inside the book [21:06] YES [21:06] that's all [21:06] dutchie: sounds good. [21:06] thorwil: OK then [21:06] thorwil: put a list in a text file in the source tree maybe? [21:07] dutchie: said list is for those of us who are supposed to create the icons (or find them) [21:07] dutchie: that's vish, perhaps wolter, myself [21:08] dutchie: we don't need that in the source tree [21:08] there are some good ones included with glade-3 [21:08] thorwil: in the wiki then? [21:08] I think we should use the default Ubuntu icons, as these will be familiar to users. [21:08] I thought a wiki page was overkill [21:08] dutchie: mailing list [21:08] yea ok [21:08] thorwil: something more permanent, surely [21:09] dutchie: mailing list -> wiki [21:09] OK, can you sort that? [21:10] no [21:10] why not? [21:10] if godbyk being in charge of the markup is unsure about what cases we have, how am i supposed to find out? [21:11] why not start a ML thread? [21:11] The two special commands I made (upon request) were \advanced and \warning. [21:11] Right now we're just using !! and ! as placeholders. [21:12] Beyond that, I haven't any idea what other icons we need. [21:12] Do we need any others? [21:12] I think Benjamin wanted an icon for each chapter heading - one that reflects the contents of that chapter [21:12] maybe info / tip [21:13] ie for the one on terminal, a terminal icon next to the heading or something... [21:13] jaminday: i se [21:13] e [21:13] Yes, that was his intention [21:14] in that case, should the design team do mockups and we can review them at the next meeting? [21:14] sounds like a good plan, dutchie [21:15] all agreed on that? [21:15] [ACTION] Design team to mock up icons for chapters, to be reviewed next meeting [21:15] ACTION received: Design team to mock up icons for chapters, to be reviewed next meeting [21:15] yeah i think that would be best [21:15] sorry all i'd better run or I'll be late - i think it's mostly design stuff from here on anyways [21:16] Right, that's the icons done [21:16] everyone good to move on? [21:16] sure [21:16] yep, but i need to get some sleep [21:16] nisshh: no worries, last topic :) [21:16] ill stay anoth 15 and then iv got to sleep [21:16] [TOPIC] T-t-title page! [21:16] New Topic: T-t-title page! [21:17] * dutchie raises eyebrows [21:17] I presume we're discussing the title page tehn [21:17] then* [21:18] I'm not a designer, but the one at the moment looks good [21:18] i don't think there's any use to discuss it without humphreybc and wolter [21:18] thorwil: agreed [21:18] I agree with thorwil. [21:18] and vish, of course [21:18] I also agree with the design on the Alpha [21:18] right [21:19] [TOPIC] Any other business? [21:19] New Topic: Any other business? [21:19] go for it, if you have anything [21:19] yes agreed [21:19] hello, I'm new to this [21:19] but I was hoping to help out. I saw that the Glossary has not been started, can I help with that? [21:19] hey there [21:20] vendaval: Welcome. [21:20] vendaval: me too :) [21:20] I haven't got the code set up for the glossary yet (I'd forgotten about it, actually). [21:20] i noticed an \application tag ... does that just glossarise stuff? [21:20] But if you want to start highlight words that have been defined or should be defined in a glossary, that will help a lot. [21:20] or is that for the index? [21:20] its something that should be finished by beta release [21:20] good night! [21:20] bvb: It adds an entry to the index, but doesn't add it to a glossary yet. [21:21] night mate [21:21] godbyk: ok ... is there similar for glossary? [21:21] ok, I'm not really sure how to work in latex and bazaar, would waiting until the 48 hour meeting explain that? [21:21] bvb: There isn't yet. I'll get a couple commands written for that soon and post to the mailing list about them. [21:21] Are you guys both subscribed to the mailing list? [21:21] I am. [21:21] yup [21:22] vendaval: The 48-hour meeting will cover that, yes. [21:22] godbyk: sounds good [21:22] LaTeX is basically just plain text files with a few \commands scattered throughout. [21:22] ok, I'll wait until then before trying anything out then. [21:23] so, godbyk has now been reminded to do the glossary [21:23] I'll get the glossary stuff set up soon and email the list then. [21:23] [ACTION] godbyk to set up glossary [21:23] vendaval: if you like i can go through it with you and help you get started later [21:23] ACTION received: godbyk to set up glossary [21:23] anything else? [21:23] I am unable to write all of the section on totem in lucid due to a bug# 521482 . Which after a chat on irc was filled . I can write it but I will have to base it on karmic and check for differences when totem works. I can't see that being a problem just though i would let people know. [21:23] nisshh: that would be great. [21:24] another thought ... is it worth setting up a ppa for a daily version, just to spread the word? [21:24] I'm of the opinion that it doesn't need packaging [21:24] ok awesome, how about straight after the next meeting? [21:24] the 8 hour one i mean [21:24] 48 hour one [21:24] I don't think it needs packaging (yet). [21:25] But we could look into a daily build sort of thing. [21:25] I'll see what I can set up. [21:25] I am happy to change the version on the main page each day If i can work out how [21:25] that's what i was wondering - it didn't look like the website actually had daily builds [21:25] dutchie: Can we get the translations to be reincorporated more frequently? Or will that screw up rosetta? [21:25] Can the build script put the bzr rev number in? [21:26] KelvinGardiner: In the filename or the document itself? [21:26] file name sounds good [21:26] godbyk: for the cover, during the dev cycle. [21:26] ok, cya later guys [21:27]