[00:02] Hey Pici, pleia2 can you help me with something? It's about the mailing list. I believe at least one of you has helped me before. [00:02] SpaceGhostC2C: The #ubuntu-community-team channel is better suited for discussions regarding that mailing list. #ubuntu-ops is only in control of Ubutntu's IRC presense. [00:03] Pici: okay. I'll look there. [00:03] * Pici fails spelling [00:03] unpossible [00:05] pleia2: last time we talked, I think it was about the mailing list and Karl. I was wondering who you talked to about getting him moderated, and if I could talk with them about some abuse? [00:15] SpaceGhostC2C, she hasn't been around all day [00:16] topyli: she'll eventually get it though, right? [00:17] i suppose [00:17] SpaceGhostC2C: Like I said, the best place to ask and discuss is in #ubuntu-community-team, that way other CC members will see it, not just pleia2. [00:23] Pici: no doubt, but they seem a bit, umm lost... pleia2 has already helped me before, so I want to get her help again. I don't have permission to PM her, so I kinda am stuck asking here. I don't intend to ask every 5 minutes. Just once was good. [00:38] Hi. I don't understand the purpose of #ubuntu-offtopic channel... Could you please read them and tell me whether they are on-topic? [00:39] q0k: They seem to be within guidelines to me, what is your doubt about the current discussion? [00:39] How is their discussion related to Ubuntu? [00:40] Its not. [00:41] Then they should join #offtopic channel (if there is one) , not should they be at #UBUNTU-offtopic ? [00:41] q0k: Its a place for people to relax and talk outside of the support, development and team channels. [00:41] Right, #offtopic channel would be great for this purpose [00:41] q0k: They are more than free to search out other offtopic channels on this network, we just happen to have our own. [00:42] q0k: You may have arrived here via irc.ubuntu.com, but this is freenode (irc.freenode.net), and not everything here is Ubuntu related. [00:42] Suppose a person has a non-support question about Ubuntu and arrives there, sees that strange talks , gets frightened ... No? [00:43] Why would someone come to #ubuntu-offtopic first, and not #ubuntu ? [00:44] First to #ubuntu , but can have a question like "which color theme of Ubuntu do you like" , this isn't a support question [00:44] He'll be directed to #ubuntu-offtopic [00:44] Then he can get wrong impression about Ubuntu because of these strange talks about strange topics [00:45] q0k: And the topic of -offtopic describes what the channel is for. Chat in the spirit of Ubuntu. Its not a support channel, and we're not going to penalize people for talking about non-ubuntu things. [00:45] Where is the SPIRIT of Ubuntu? I don't see it... Am I not right? [00:47] q0k: It means to chat within the guidelines laid out by the Ubuntu Code of Conduct, a friendly atmosphere where people can be comfortable. [00:47] If it's normal what is going there, I have no other questions [00:47] Yes, its normal, sorry for any confusion that we might have caused. [00:47] Thanks! Bye. [00:48] Byas. [00:48] gotta love 'em for trying to help :) [00:56] 19:54:50 If I were creative, I'd photoshop a Pope hat onto popey's head onto popeye's body, caption it "Half Pope. Half Popeye. Half Beast" and send it to his as a valentines day card [00:57] I fully endorse that endeavor [03:44] scunizi called the ops in #ubuntu (LinuxGay trolling) [03:57] nalioth: please PM me when you get the chance [04:53] daemonfc unbanned in -ot? [04:57] nope, seems to be ban evading [05:11] and still at it with the FUD [05:16] ops for #ubuntu-offtopic please take a check on DaemonFC [05:23] Not ban evading as much as old-banmask-ing [05:23] Oh, no, it was moved over. [05:32] Blargh. [05:32] My op powahz are failing [05:35] I can't seem to set a ban [05:36] Works fine in non-ot channels [05:36] recyclecorn is the chimpout fellow [05:39] bazhang: Indeed it is [05:51] yay PEBKAC [05:55] Howdy rww, how can we help you? [05:56] Flannel: Last I checked, providing instructions for jailbreaking iPods is offtopic for Ubuntu channels. Is that still the case? [05:57] rww: You're referring to rockbox? or what? [05:57] Which channel? [05:57] #ubuntu+1 [05:57] Ah. You mean jailbreaking iphones? [05:58] I would ask for a topic change, but the last time I pointed out that discussing questionably legal stuff in there is a bad thing, I got snark back. [05:58] (from the people having the conversation, that is) [05:59] Flannel: the method that they're talking about jailbreaks iPhones as well, yes [05:59] rww: iphones or ipods? (jailbreaking isn't usually used with the latter) [05:59] but the person who originally asked appears to be talking about an iPod [05:59] !rockbox [05:59] rockbox is an open source firmware replacement for audio players from Archos, iRiver, Apple (iPod), and iAudio. See http://www.rockbox.org/ to get started! [06:00] we even have a factoid for rockbox, but I have no idea what the deal is with the newfangled ones, so I'm likely out of touch [06:00] there is a PPA for ifuser that requires zero jailbreaking [06:02] oh, there it is [06:02] http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/01/03/%23ubuntu-ops.html [06:03] Anyway, if it's offtopic/questionable/whatever, it was getting discussed in #ubuntu+1. Either way, that channel has a tendency to go offtopic recently, which is maybe something that should be looked at :\ [06:17] FloodBot4 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) [06:17] FloodBot2 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) [06:17] FloodBot3 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) [06:17] FloodBot1 called the ops in #ubuntu-ops-monitor (exploit) === PancakeStaffer is now known as KB1JWQ [08:28] iceroot called the ops in #ubuntu (MWTC_King) [08:56] tsimpson: MWTC_King is back in #ubuntu after you removed the ban. did you speak with him/her? [08:56] mneptok: yes, it was apparently "a joke" [08:57] tsimpson: funny. like a brain tumor. [08:58] hm ... that didn't last long. [08:58] going to mute him next time [08:58] bazhang is in tiger mode. [08:59] *graurrrrr* [08:59] mneptok, happy new year to you too! :) [08:59] bazhang: not to be nosy, but are you married? because i'm not. and it's red envelope time .... ;) [08:59] happy sunday to all [08:59] well he said he read the rules I linked [09:00] mneptok, you forgot the last quartet of gong xi fa cai (hong bao na lai ) :) [09:00] bazhang: and, of course, i'm kidding. you may deny me an envelope with no ill affects in the coming year. :) [09:01] well its usually younger give to older, so no way I can give to you :) [09:01] bazhang: i'm lucky to remember as little simplified Mandarin as i do. [09:01] hehe [09:01] bazhang: i'm pretty sure i'm older than you are [09:01] mneptok, seriously doubt that :) [09:02] bazhang: 44 [09:02] mneptok, got you beat by 4 [09:02] well soon enough [09:02] bazhang: i don't believe you. cut off your leg so i can count the rings. [09:02] mneptok, hehe [09:05] bazhang: i guess we both now qualify for "您多大年纪" :/ [09:06] mneptok, nah, Chinese don't call you an adult until you have gone through 5 cycles of the Chinese Animals, ie 12 animals x 5 = 60 years old [09:07] bazhang: ah. yes. i forgot it was tied to the animals. [09:07] bazhang: tiger year may be difficult for me. i am a yin wood snake. [09:08] mneptok, I'd have to look it up :) [09:43] Could I have a rundown on recent issues in #ubuntuforums please and reactive actions taken? [09:44] Pricey: noone wanted to be an op there, now there's ops [09:45] Tm_T: From what I can see, there's the same set of ops tehre as there's always been. [09:45] Maybe one extra addition outside the normal set. [09:45] ok, I don't know more than that [09:45] That isn't the question I asked anyway. [10:14] ikonia, ping [10:14] bacta's game is over in #u [10:18] meesa banned :( [10:18] I can't even begin to imagine how you're going to try explain yourself now. [10:18] I didn't do it [10:23] conversation over [10:24] come on ikonia [10:24] we need to find a "way forward" [10:24] please leave the channel [10:24] to use your words [10:24] the way forward is your banned [10:24] yeah well you can get fucked XD [10:24] perfect. [10:25] so much for that "i'll contribute constructively" [10:25] he's had more chances than i have hairs on my head [10:25] he never said that, it's just more backing that something needs to be done about him [10:26] he's only a matter of inches away from regressing to his play on the M release name. [10:26] he is in -women still [10:27] noted. [10:27] Tm_T: and in my opinion should be removed, I was planning to raise this at the IRCCC meeting but we ran out of time [10:27] transferring bans from one channel to another is really not a done thing [10:27] the whole name space is what needs to happen [10:27] sure [10:27] ikonia: surely it's a matter for the ops of -women [10:27] no [10:27] it's not [10:28] tsimpson: it's not that simple [10:28] it's beyond that now [10:28] we can ban in core channels, but we can't realistically ban throughout the entire namespace [10:28] no, I understand that [10:29] It's easier now that the likelihood of being chastised for banning spammers there has reduced recently. he just needs to do something visible. [10:29] a new channel springs up every day, so that's understandable, but the ones with large numbers that get a large disruption by him being a constant issue need to be controlled [10:29] Im still very much of the view that if he behaves himself in $channel, he can be there. [10:29] jussi01: even if he is there just to cause disturbance? [10:30] Tm_T: how is he causing disturbance? [10:30] jussi01: really, even though he's admited to me he's only there to upset elky by making her feel uncomfortable [10:30] jussi01, well yes, and providing he doesn't PM harass someone about being able to be there, like he's been doing to ikonia the last fortnight [10:30] jussi01: is that behaving yourself ? [10:30] at what point do we actually start to look out for the community [10:30] what value is this guy to the commnutiy other than taking up time policing his 200+ bans ? [10:30] jussi01: also he's been borderlining few occasions, he never talks about the actual topic of the channel and... [10:30] ikonia, s/looking out/being proactive/ you mean? [10:31] elky: the guy openly admits he's there to be an issue, in every ubuntu channel, why put every channel through the weekly cycle of walk on the edge of problem, cross the line, ban, remove, repeat [10:31] PM issues you need to take to freenode. if he acts out in the channel, then its an issue for the chanops. [10:31] ok, I'll raise this as an issue to the council then [10:32] jussi01, freenode gave him his cloak back while he was actively trolling. [10:32] if he makes people in the channel uncomfortable, the ops there should act (IMHO) [10:32] at some point common sense has to kick in about the interst of the community [10:32] tsimpson, he makes around half a dozen people there uncomfortable because he used to harass the linuxchix server [10:32] jussi01: just to make this clear, I'm not saying this should be general rule, but he is only negative value in that channel, keeps me and others in the edge there, I see no single reason why _he_ should be there other than causing issues [10:33] so why don't the ops ban him? [10:33] tsimpson, that's the problem. he's a past aggressor. it's like being stuck in a room with someone who used to make abusive phone calls because he's not currently holding a phone [10:33] tsimpson: because he haven't done "enough bad things lately" [10:33] Tm_T: I want to put in place the opposite of !appeals where persistant long term problem users who have no intention of particiapating go through evaluation for removal from the "core" channels to stop the persistnat disruption and cycle of ban/remove/ban/remove [10:34] he's now in +1 [10:34] ikonia: sounds reasonable if used with extreme care [10:34] he's doing it specifically to taunt [10:34] Tm_T: I agree [10:34] Tm_T: it's a team channel, they get to decide who should and should not be there. if bacta feels so strongly about being there, he can follow the appeals process [10:34] tsimpson: I could only see 2 - 3 times ever this could have been used [10:34] tsimpson: the appeals process will allow him back in [10:34] because he's done nothing "at this moment" [10:35] you don't know that [10:35] being realistic about it [10:35] following the exact letter of applying a ban [10:35] we'd take into account previous behaviour [10:36] and because -women is a team channel, we would need a very good reason to override them [10:36] ok, so you're saying common sense is the method, not the letter of the ban placement [10:36] that's a new approach [10:37] there is a reason that humans are there for appeals, rather than a python script [10:37] (I don't mean applying common sense is new, more that history would be considered rather than the actual ban) [10:37] tsimpson: yes, but in the past it's always been reviewed as an appeal for that ban at that moment, rather than a ban and the reason behind the ban [10:37] tsimpson: so you're saying that if bans him now, applying process would look his previous behaviour in whole freenode, no matter what was the reason of this particular ban? [10:37] ikonia: maybe if it was #ubuntu, but not a team channel [10:37] ikonia, -women was included in the core at the request of lyz. [10:38] elky: I don't believe it's included in core yet [10:38] elky: included? [10:38] tsimpson: why would ubuntu be different ? [10:38] elky: it's been asked to include but no decision have been made yet [10:38] tsimpson: surly the users past behaviour (if that is the reason for the ban) would be just as valid as -women [10:38] ikonia, i'm pretty sure that was agreed on when I was still IRCC [10:38] meeting last night suggested otherwise [10:38] i recall having a vote about it. [10:38] ikonia: because, we are directly responsible for #ubuntu, we are the point of contact. not so with -women [10:38] elky: no it wasnt. [10:39] look, bactas just been banned from #ubuntu, straight away joins +1 to flaunt it [10:39] ikonia, the -women join was post ban too [10:42] I mean, really, we have to discuss about this guy all the time [10:43] so we need procedure to handle this kind of situations [10:43] and he is in -irc too btw [10:48] Tm_T: that's what I was looking for, a procedure to evaluate in very serious cases and be proactive towards the community as a whole rather than following the set ban/remove/repeat procedure [10:48] and now he's pm'ing me [10:48] bang on queue [10:48] que even [10:48] cue [10:49] :-> [10:49] thank you [10:49] and bragging about it in ##club-ubuntu [10:49] * Myrtti puts a stamp in her calendar [10:49] :-> [10:50] ikonia, oh ye gads. that's a thought i don't want. [10:51] happy sunday to all (:) [11:02] happy valentines day and Chinese New Year [11:07] hello vish [11:07] hi.. [11:07] just thought I'd respond to you're question in here as to not disrupt the channel (I know it's quiet) [11:07] if a user miss-behaves, they don't get banned from all channels, just the one they are in [11:07] sure... so the question on +1 was just my curiosity [11:08] ah k.. [11:08] you are correct though, that user has been a problem in multiple channels on multiple occasions, but currently there no process in place to resolve that issue [11:08] his ban wasn't a result of that though, [11:08] ikonia: ah , cool thanks :) [11:09] * vish jumps out of channels before being told to.. [11:09] bye all :) [11:09] no problem [11:09] just wanted to be clear [11:09] bye [11:09] thanks.. [11:09] for the record bacta is complining in club-ubuntu that I banned him for no reason [11:10] the threat of additional trolling in pm is why I banned him combined with his recenty activity and past behaviour. [11:10] if you wish to remove the ban, please do so, [11:11] now threatening to get Mark Shuttleworth involved. [11:11] pre-emptive banning is not something we encourage, if he acts up in +1 we should act [11:12] great [11:12] after all I've just said, [11:13] ikonia: we need to be consistent, then he can't claim that we don't even abide by our own guidelines [11:13] there is no guide lines for this ? [11:13] the guy is threatening more behaviour in pm to me ? [11:13] do I ignore that [11:13] keep in mind the guys history [11:14] never mind, remove the ban [11:14] you deal with him [11:15] see the "Don't retaliate" section of the op guidelines [11:15] chelz, hi [11:15] hi [11:15] it's not a retaliation [11:15] chelz, how can we help you [11:15] yeah i came here over the issue of banning Bacta from #ubuntu+1 and wanted to know the legality of banning a user from an ubuntu channel based on actions outside of that channel. [11:15] ikonia: but if someone were to look at the logs, it may seem like it [11:16] i would hope it's not legal but i want to know what the prevailing interpretation is. [11:16] chelz: he knows that he needs to ask himself to be unbanned [11:16] we will not discuss it with others [11:17] oh ok. so not talking about that one instance, but talking in general about any instance of doing something outside of a channel and having a ban placed on a user by an op in an ubuntu channel, is that legal or illegal? [11:17] or i guess 'case-by-case'? [11:18] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/IrcTeam/OperatorGuidelines lists our guidelines [11:19] ah. i guess it's a balance between "Ban on sight" and "Don't retaliate" [11:19] so 'case-by-case' [11:20] perhaps something that might be a good idea to put in place could be a system of somekind for determining "really abusive users", maybe in a similar method to how wikipedia reaches consensus [11:20] just a suggestion :) [11:21] it's on the works [11:21] chelz: I've raised that myself [11:21] oh that's good to hear [11:22] the more formal the method, the more clearly justification for marking users as 'really abusive users' can be made. to me it's definitely a good idea. [11:22] alright. have a happy valentines day all. :) [12:03] !logs [12:03] Official channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - For LoCo channels, http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/ [12:12] !away > b2ag [12:13] * jpds plays with gb.archive. [12:13] as in the repo ? [12:44] anita has been doing that for several hours now, pretending not to understand that there is an #ubuntu-es [12:57] forwaded her to -es for an hour or so, see if she gets it [12:58] thanks ikonia [13:47] In #ubuntu, wojox said: !forget foo [13:48] In #ubuntu, wojox said: !unforget foo [14:30] I am curious why java users are banned from #ubuntu? [14:31] ShawnRisk: to stop it being used as a spam tool [14:31] most proxy users are [14:31] has that happened before? [14:31] ShawnRisk: when you join ubuntu you should be forwaded to ubuntu-proxy-users where if you read the topic you'll gain access to ubuntu [14:32] I am not [14:33] I am using the java irc client on freenode's site [14:34] Hmmm I thought you should have got forwaded [14:34] nope [14:34] show try joining ubuntu-proxy-users [14:34] I have to go [14:35] thanks for the info [16:08] Has someone looked at Bahrain in #u yet? [16:08] [2010-02-14 16:05:45 GMT] #ubuntu: < Soul_Shadow> !Ops Bahbrain Join Pm Spammer.. [16:08] MenZa: I don't get any spam [16:08] Me neither, hmm. [16:08] * MenZa shrugs. === ikonia_ is now known as testor [16:31] !ops ban list is full [16:31] I'll remember that, ikonia [16:31] oughh !!!! [16:31] no [16:31] !ops [16:31] Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - elky, Madpilot, tritium, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sparrow, jpds, bazhang, jussi01, Flannel or ikonia! [16:31] ikonia called the ops in #ubuntu-ops () [16:31] ban list is full [16:32] ikonia: nice new factoid :-P [16:32] doh ! [16:32] * jrib has 0 bans, just cleared yesterday [16:33] !ops ban list [16:33] ops ban list is full [16:33] :) [16:33] so true [16:34] !!!! [16:35] !forget !ops ban list [16:35] I know nothing about !ops ban list yet, ikonia [16:35] really ? [16:35] ikonia: drop second ! [16:35] oops [16:35] !forget ops ban list [16:35] I'll forget that, ikonia [16:35] well spotted [16:35] thank you [16:36] n [16:37] is idoru setting bans when it kills? [16:37] idoru? [16:37] the new bot in freenode servers [16:37] oh [16:38] no idea [16:38] anyone spamming more than 6 or so lines is Killed [17:23] http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f1e2740cc [17:25] cmon ubottu.... [17:25] !test [17:25] hrm? [17:26] Myrtti: no paste.ubuntu.com? [17:26] Tm_T: I haven't fixed it to do paste.ubuntu.com again yet [17:27] ah, roger [17:32] tsimpson: whats the situation with new bantracker? [17:35] ok, I'll do the quiets now [17:40] bazhang, tsimpson: http://paste.ubuntu.com/376321/ [17:41] !ops | volunteers to clear out verne bans from http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f1e2740cc ?? [17:41] volunteers to clear out verne bans from http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f1e2740cc ??: Help! Channel emergency! (ONLY use this trigger in emergencies) - elky, Madpilot, tritium, Nalioth, tonyyarusso, PriceChild, Amaranth, jrib, Myrtti, mneptok, Pici, Jack_Sparrow, jpds, bazhang, jussi01, Flannel or ikonia! [17:41] Myrtti called the ops in #ubuntu-ops (volunteers to clear out verne bans from http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/f1e2740cc ??) [17:42] I can do about twenty or so from the beginning, but having someone else do it too would really help me to not get too pissed off at it... [17:42] why don't we just script this? [17:43] I mean, I'm asking if there is a reason other than "no one has done it" [17:43] jrib: thanks, but I'd rather not be replaced by a very small shell script. I *never* remove any bans without checking from bantracker [17:44] idk, I'd rather have a shell script replace me if it means I have to do less tedious work :) [17:47] jrib: it also seems you just volunteered to make some script. [17:47] Myrtti: after my movie [17:51] intresting that @113.199.* [17:57] meh [17:57] Error: Can not create a mark for '*!*@12. [18:15] trying to talk to sebsebseb about pm'ing people to use mandriva [18:16] is he *really* doing that? [18:16] trying to find out [18:16] it's not the first time, but I was confident he's not do it again [18:17] How do you know he's been doing that ikonia? [18:17] he's done it in the past and admited it [18:17] although I /think/ it was slackware and not mandriva, but not %100 certain [18:18] yeah i don't think that's important.. [18:18] as long as he's not suggesting gentoo... [18:18] he doesn't appear active at the moment, so it may be nonsense [18:18] *cough* [18:18] he may be suggesting it with a genuine reason, eg: it may suit your needs better, which is fine in my view [18:18] no, but really, I should try gentoo sometime. When I've learned how to really compile stuff. [18:18] he may not be doing it at all [18:18] Myrtti: you've leant how to type emerge you mean [18:18] How come you're trying to get involved? [18:18] yeah, might be mindvirus' idea of fun joke [18:19] Pricey: involved in what ? [18:19] this sebsebseb maybe PMing people thing [18:19] because he's done it a lot in the past [18:19] but why now? [18:20] do you find it appropriate someone sat in #ubuntu saying "use mandriva" [18:20] what's happenned? [18:20] mindvirus in the channel said sebsebseb pm'd him saying "use mandriva instead" [18:20] so I'm trying to find out if a.) that's true b.) the reasonsing behind it [18:20] it may be utterly nothing [18:20] I think it'd be best if you did something else. [18:20] however sebsebseb has a history of doing pm stuff to users in the channel [18:20] Pricey: why ? [18:20] There must be a multitude of more useful things you could be doing. [18:21] I hope that's a word. [18:21] err, sending a pm asking ? [18:21] it's a 30 second task [18:21] sure, the PM is... [18:21] however what it could provoke... [18:21] provoke what ? [18:21] if he's done nothing or done it with a reason, it's not a problem [18:21] which he may well have done [18:22] or in your view is it acceptable behaviour ? [18:22] I think its perfectly acceptable, and don't see any reason to interfere with other user's PMs. [18:23] If mindvirus was being harrassed etc. etc. then he should do more than just mention it in #ubuntu [18:23] he could let you know the details or ignore sebsebseb or something [18:23] i don't think this is an important issue though.. [18:23] he didn't say he was being harraessed, but asking for advice and getting a pm saying use mandriva doesn't seem right, [18:23] I don't think it's an important issue, that's why I just sent him a pm [18:23] * Pricey headdesks [18:23] lets move on [18:23] bigger fish to fry and all that [18:24] there is no one to fry [18:24] oh dear god [18:24] what now? [18:24] look, a flying cake! [18:24] its just a saying.... there's no reason to take "fry" literally. [18:24] I wasn't [18:24] I don't actually think that sebsebseb has gills. [18:25] That would be quite cool though, imagine having gills. [18:25] They could make a tv show out of that. [18:29] ok, sebsebseb was a bit out of line to mindvirus in pm, but he's agreed (again) to stop doing it, he pasted a log and mindvirus asked him to stop and he kept pushing mandriva, [18:29] not a big deal though [18:29] You could tell mindvirus about /ignore too? [18:29] he did [18:30] the conversation ended with "piss off" and he put him on ignore [18:33]