[00:14] <chrisccoulson> james_w - i've pushed a change to bzr for the gnome-desktop issue now, incorporating your change too
[00:14] <chrisccoulson> i made a small change though. i removed this bit:
[00:14] <chrisccoulson> +            *error = NULL;
[00:14] <chrisccoulson> as that leaks the GError if it was set
[00:15] <chrisccoulson> because the error is just discarded here, I don't pass it to the previous function at all anymore
[01:48] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, you there?
[01:53] <desrt> i miss seb :(
[01:59] <robert_ancell> desrt, :)
[01:59] <robert_ancell> desrt, I am your Canonical appointed Seb-substitute.  How can I help ;)
[02:00] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, can you release lp:~ubuntu-desktop/xdg-utils/ubuntu?  Needs main privileges
[02:01] <desrt> robert_ancell: a hug?
[02:01] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: What does releasing involve?
[02:01] <TheMuso> oh upload it?
[02:01] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, er, uploading. Sponsoring.  Whatever the jargon is :)
[02:02] <robert_ancell> fixes attachments and thunderbird
[02:02] <robert_ancell> (patches taken from upstream
[02:02] <robert_ancell> )
[02:02] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Righto will get to it in a sec
[02:02] <robert_ancell> no rush
[02:02]  * robert_ancell hugs desrt
[02:02] <desrt> robert_ancell: that was most excellent.  thank you.
[02:06] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, oh, also any feedback about simple-scan and a11y would be appreciated.  I'm thinking OCR support could be very useful.
[02:06] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Ok haven't looked at it yet, but I'll give it a try when I next need to scan something.
[02:07] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, are there any tools that scan and read out the contents?
[02:07] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: mago/ldtp, accerciser to name a couple.
[02:07] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: that is if you mean a11y testing
[02:08] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, I mean read out the contents of the scanned page
[02:08] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: oh right, none that I know of that do that.
[02:08] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, I do use those tools but it's often hard to tell if ticking all those boxes really makes it accessible
[02:08]  * robert_ancell files a new bug
[02:19] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: ok looking at xdg-utils now.
[02:30] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: uploaded
[02:30] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, thanks
[02:30] <TheMuso> np
[03:07] <robert_ancell> RAOF, hey, thanks for the launchpad-integration work
[07:04] <^arky^> hi
[07:05] <^arky^> Wonder what happened to shutdown menu under system its an important a11y bug 510775
[07:15] <pitti> Good morning
[07:16] <pitti> asac: langpack machine name> macquarie
[07:16] <pitti> kklimonda: they are hacked somewhat, like dropping the rsyslog dd process; but not too much
[07:38] <baptistemm> good morning
[07:38] <pitti> bonjour baptistemm
[07:40] <baptistemm> hi pitti
[08:23] <didrocks> good morning
[08:25] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[08:25] <didrocks> hey pitti, did you have a good week-end?
[08:25] <pitti> oh yes, I did; it was great for relaxing
[08:26] <pitti> how about you?
[08:30] <didrocks> pitti: I connected to IRC and got a lot of questions and feedbacks (more details on that later), so not really resting finally :)
[08:30] <pitti> ah, error
[08:31] <pitti> after not having had a weekend last week, I really needed this one
[08:32] <baptistemm> didrocks, sorry :)
[08:32] <baptistemm> hello :)
[08:33] <didrocks> baptistemm: not particularly your fault ;) I had some ping on quickly, anjuta, and une too ;)
[08:33] <baptistemm> salut seb128
[08:33] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:35] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:35] <seb128> hey didrocks baptistemm pitti
[08:35] <seb128> didrocks, never IRC during the weekend ;-)
[08:36] <didrocks> seb128: right, I guess I have to change my habits :)
[08:37] <baptistemm> or change your nick during the weekend
[08:37] <baptistemm> :)
[08:38] <didrocks> hehe /nick didrocks_hidden
[08:41] <baptistemm> pitti, what is the difference between devicekit-disk and udisk ?
[08:42] <pitti> baptistemm: it was by and large a rename, but udisks also grew some more features
[08:43] <baptistemm> okay
[08:43] <baptistemm> the api has changed ?
[08:43] <pitti> just uploaded usb-creator
[08:43] <pitti> I'll port dell-recovery now, then I can remove devicekit-disks from the archive
[08:44] <pitti> baptistemm: yes, due to the renaming; but not a lot besides that
[08:44] <pitti> i. e. o.fd.DeviceKit.Disks -> o.fd.UDisks
[08:44] <pitti> likewise with d-bus object paths, and so on
[08:48] <Keybuk> usb-creator will need porting too I guess?
[08:48] <pitti> 09:43:36         pitti | just uploaded usb-creator
[08:48] <Keybuk> oh
[08:49] <Keybuk> sorry
[08:49] <Keybuk> haven't had enough coffee yet
[08:49] <pitti> np :)
[08:49] <pitti> Keybuk: good morning
[08:49] <pitti> Keybuk: how was your weekend?
[08:49] <Keybuk> relaxing thanks, yours?
[08:50] <pitti> for me, too; went for some skiing, visiting family, grandparents in hospital, and got some housecleaning done
[08:50] <pitti> oh, and some episodes of Al Bundy :)
[08:53] <Keybuk> heh, nice
[08:53] <Keybuk> most of mine was spent with friends
[09:10] <didrocks> restarting session to test something, brb
[09:22] <didrocks> baptistemm: bg change commited
[09:23] <baptistemm> youpi
[09:24] <baptistemm> Ihaz sharp Eyze
[09:24] <didrocks> baptistemm: you have to say "chouette" here, it's rick's rule :) ("swcheet" is also accepted ;))
[09:24] <baptistemm> Chouette !!!
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:24] <didrocks> baptistemm: heh, you will tell me once sponsored and installed
[09:24] <baptistemm> so what did you do?
[09:24] <baptistemm> didrocks, so not before tonight
[09:25] <didrocks> baptistemm: put the quality to 100% for jpeg, the image have approximately the same size
[09:26] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: work late again? (see a commit at 00:10 on libgnome-desktop) :)
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> that's not late for me ;)
[09:27] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: sure, relatively speaking… ;)
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> didrocks: did you have a good weekend?
[09:29] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: a lot of IRC ping as you saw on Saturday for instance (but the same on Sunday). So, not really resting as I'm bugged myself during whole the week-end about the session issue :)
[09:29] <didrocks> but it was still a week-end :)
[09:29] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: and you?
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> i had quite a relaxing weekend. i had plans to do lots of work, but we had family round in the end, and I didn't really start anything until yesterday evening
[09:30] <baptistemm> didrocks, format name is always "jpeg"?, it couldn't be jpg for instance ?
[09:31] <didrocks> baptistemm: looking at the format doc, it seems not
[09:31] <baptistemm> okay, sorry for asking
[09:31] <chrisccoulson> heh, i see pitti is busy this morning moving dk-disks bug tasks over to udisks ;)
[09:31] <pitti> yeah, good oppportunity to review dk-disks bugs and catch up on triaging
[09:32] <pitti> good morning
[09:32] <didrocks> baptistemm: no pb. If we see some special case, we will be able to change that easily :)
[09:32] <chrisccoulson> good morning pitti :)
[09:32] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[09:32] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm great, thanks; had a nice and relaxing weekend. how are yuo?
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> yeah, quite relaxing too. we left our daughter with her grandparents on saturday evening, and went out for a meal
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> which was a nice break!
[09:33] <baptistemm> bad parents !!!!
[09:33] <baptistemm> :)
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> we only left her for an hour or so
[09:37] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i just saw you left a comment on the g-d-u bug that superm sent upstream at the weekend
[09:37] <pitti> *nod*
[09:37] <chrisccoulson> i thought we'd fixed this issue
[09:37] <chrisccoulson> but the new fix is definately wrong
[09:38] <pitti> I faintly remembered that we discussed that before, indeed
[09:38] <pitti> but I wasn't sure whether it was the same problem
[09:38] <chrisccoulson> pitti - the issue we identified was related to the timeout of the dbus calls being shorter than expected
[09:39] <chrisccoulson> the issue that superm has reported is fundamentally the same issue
[09:39] <chrisccoulson> (the first dbus call fails when activating the daemon)
[09:40] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm wondering if there isn't another race here with activated services. udisks claims the org.freedesktop.udisks service name (or whatever it is called now) when it loads, but it does this before registering the object we're trying to communicate with
[09:41] <chrisccoulson> i wonder if that can make the first call fail sometimes
[09:41] <pitti> oh, is it even possible to do that the other way round? (register, then claim)
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i can't see why not. you'd still have a connection to the bus (but it would be a number)
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> then you just change the name when you're ready
[09:42] <chrisccoulson> perhaps james_w has some insight here
[09:43] <chrisccoulson> james_w - FYI - bug 521481 (this issue keeps cropping up again)
[09:43] <chrisccoulson> pitti - do you want me to reopen this bug?
[09:44] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, I think we should
[09:45] <chrisccoulson> pitti - done
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - you bumped the gnome-desktop version number in bzr to 2.29.90-0ubuntu4
[09:52] <baptistemm> For thoses interested, I packaged devhelp 2.29.90, I just need sponsoring
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> there's no need to do that is there?
[09:52] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: grrr, I used dch -a, sorry, let me fix that
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> (as 2.29.90-0ubuntu3 hasn't been released yet)
[09:52] <baptistemm> ah daniel did it
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> heh ;)
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> thanks:)
[09:52] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: sorry, twice in a week ;)
[09:52] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: fixed
[09:53] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[10:04] <seb128> pitti, bug #453605
[10:04] <seb128> pitti, this sort of option used to be in gnome-mount
[10:04] <pitti> right, g-m had a nautilus extension
[10:05] <seb128> pitti, I don't nautilus is the right component for such policy, should that be somewhere in the udisk stack?
[10:05] <seb128> or g-d-u
[10:05] <pitti> no, it needs to be in GNOME, and nautilus does the automounting
[10:05] <pitti> (which I'm not happy about, but that's the way things are ATM)
[10:05] <seb128> well nautilus doesn't specify mount options does it
[10:06] <pitti> right, that's the wishlist :)
[10:06] <seb128> I don't think nautilus should
[10:06] <seb128> udisk should have some config file it reads
[10:06] <seb128> the way gnome-mount was reading gconf keys
[10:06] <seb128> no?
[10:06] <seb128> it would seem logic to not have those options restricted to the caller
[10:06] <pitti> udisks doesn't have policy, or can have per-user config
[10:06] <pitti> we could have nautilus or gdu read gconf values
[10:07] <seb128> well, what does call mount in the stack
[10:07] <seb128> and why could that read a config?
[10:07] <seb128> I'm sure there is non nautilus users who want to tweak mount options too
[10:08] <pitti> well, you can with udisks and gdu
[10:08] <pitti> gdu_device_op_filesystem_mount() takes options, and so does udisks --mount
[10:09] <pitti> in theory we could add gconf reading to gdu
[10:09] <pitti> that would make it a bit more awkward to XFCE and friends (due to the new dependency), but I don't care that much about this
[10:09] <seb128> let's say it's a wishlist for next cycle
[10:10] <seb128> by which time we will have gsettings in glib
[10:10] <seb128> and we can use that rather than gconf
[10:10] <seb128> pitti, thanks!
[10:10] <pitti> right, just a wishlist bug; can be entirely ignored
[10:10] <seb128> yeah, will do that
[10:10] <seb128> I was just curious about the design
[10:10] <pitti> ah, then we could add configurability to gdu indeed
[10:10] <seb128> seems gnome-mount flexibility was better ;-)
[10:10] <pitti> since it'll need glib either way
[10:11] <pitti> yeah, it was indeed
[10:12] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[10:12] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[10:12] <chrisccoulson> how are you today?
[10:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, good! you?
[10:14] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm ok thanks. i'm getting a bit tired now though, as I've ran out of coffee at work
[10:15] <seb128> no coffee on monday morning is not a nice week start ;-)
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> it's not ;)
[10:15] <chrisccoulson> i have to wait until lunchtime before i can get some more
[10:16] <baptistemm> chrisccoulson, you're a coffeelcoholic ?
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> baptistemm: yeah, i am
[10:17] <chrisccoulson> it will probably do me good to have a morning without though
[11:02] <baptistemm> For those working on Moblin, http://meego.com/ --> « Moblin and Maemo are merging »
[11:02] <baptistemm> you can say bye bye to GTK+ development on mobile platform ...
[11:26] <baptistemm> cassidy, do you look at empathy bug in launchpad ?
[11:26] <cassidy> baptistemm, rarely. I already receive too much upstream bugs :\
[11:26] <baptistemm> okay
[11:26] <baptistemm> So I need to forward my crasher
[11:32] <chrisccoulson> baptistemm: if it's not due to one of our patches ;)
[11:32] <baptistemm> we'll see :-/
[11:44] <cassidy> baptistemm, how does it crash?
[11:45] <chrisccoulson> baptistemm: is bug 520603 the one?
[11:46] <chrisccoulson> cassidy: ^^
[11:47]  * chrisccoulson wishes it was lunchtime already
[11:48] <cassidy> chrisccoulson, this one should have been fixed this week-end
[11:48] <cassidy> chrisccoulson, you can close it as a dup of https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=609843
[11:49] <chrisccoulson> cassidy - thanks
[11:53] <didrocks> pitti: can I get some feedback on that before implementing it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/DesktopUNESession#gnome-panel ?
[11:59] <didrocks> seb128: same punition (as you were disconnected). When you have some time, can I get some feedback on that before implementing it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/DesktopUNESession#gnome-panel please?
[11:59] <seb128> same punition than who, where?
[11:59] <didrocks> punishment even :)
[11:59] <didrocks> seb128: I asked pitti the same thing
[11:59] <didrocks> :)
[11:59] <seb128> looking
[11:59] <didrocks> thanks
[12:01] <seb128> I like none of those
[12:01] <seb128> did you ask vuntz for his opinion?
[12:02] <baptistemm> chrisccoulson, yeah thank, I've already create one bug upstream, I'll close it
[12:02] <didrocks> vuntz told me to do the #3 when we discussed that, but I'm afraid it can break a lot of things (but I didn't show him this)
[12:02] <didrocks> vuntz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/DesktopUNESession#gnome-panel, any idea on how to fix this?
[12:04] <didrocks> vuntz: because even, if we got fixed by #3, the user won't be able to add a new panel still as it would be mandatory and not depends on session (or if we make it default, if the user is adding/changing anything, he will get the same panels in UNE as well)
[12:13] <pitti> didrocks: will look after lunch
[12:14] <didrocks> pitti: thanks, enjoy :)
[12:55] <baptistemm> asac, I sent a mail to linux-bluetooth mailing list about the API break, Waiting for an answer now
[12:56] <asac> thx
[12:56] <baptistemm> I don't know would what be the better fix, bump soname or restore API
[12:57] <baptistemm> I don't know what use the api which was removed
[12:57] <asac> restore API i would hope
[12:57] <asac> just wait for upstream ,)
[12:57] <asac> their call imo
[12:57] <baptistemm> fedora pushed the package anyway
[12:57] <asac> they dont have symbol tracking, do they?
[12:57] <asac> they probably didnt notice
[12:57] <baptistemm> I wonder
[12:58] <baptistemm> hey Bastien told me he didn't noticed
[12:58] <asac> right
[12:58] <asac> thats what i suspected :-Ü
[12:58] <asac> :-P
[12:58] <baptistemm> or rather he didn't told me he noticed :)
[13:08] <didrocks> pitti: after having a look of g-s-d code about triggering the wallpaper recache on update for the WI "write a small helper program to refresh bg and trigger caching, and add it to gnome-desktop postinst", I noted that it's watching the wallpaper file. If you change it, you trigger g-s-d to redraw to background, and so, get the new wallpaper cached.
[13:09] <didrocks> pitti: consequently, I wonder if it's useful for people not having the background in a package. Do we still want to cache their wallpaper on update, or just wait for next reboot to do it for us?
[13:10] <seb128> didrocks, next reboot is fine
[13:11] <seb128> didrocks, the profiling etc will only update on first boot after upgrade
[13:11] <seb128> didrocks, I was away for lunch looking at your une question again, but I think we should do what vuntz suggests
[13:11] <seb128> didrocks, the spec is not really clear about what you aim to fix though
[13:12] <didrocks> seb128: the issue is even if we fix that, we prevent people from adding another panel (as toplevel_id_list will be mandatory), right?
[13:12] <pitti> didrocks: hi
[13:12] <chrisccoulson> good afternoon everyone
[13:12] <pitti> didrocks: yes, I think we want to cache it either way
[13:12] <seb128> chrisccoulson, good afternoon to you too
[13:12] <pitti> didrocks: but touching it during dist-upgrade doesn't work, since at that time the old g-s-d is still running
[13:12] <didrocks> good afternoon chrisccoulson
[13:13] <didrocks> pitti: oh right, forgot about that
[13:13] <seb128> didrocks, it doesn't make clean either what was the drawbacks from the IRC discussion nor the bug reports
[13:13] <pitti> didrocks: and doing it on first boot will just miss the chance of being covered by ureadahead
[13:13] <pitti> didrocks: (same problem why we need an ubiquity hook)
[13:13] <didrocks> seb128: "not editing the panel?"
[13:13] <didrocks> seb128: I can point the IRC discussion though
[13:13] <seb128> didrocks, is that something you want?
[13:13] <didrocks> let me find it
[13:14] <seb128> being able to edit the panel or not
[13:14] <seb128> didrocks, I'm not really interested to read IRC backlogs if you could summarize the concern rather...
[13:14] <didrocks> seb128: just that we already have bug report about that and bad feedbacks before alpha3 about preventing that
[13:14] <didrocks> seb128: in a nutshell, the feedback was "UNE sucks if I can't edit the panel"
[13:15] <didrocks> and other constructive terms like that :)
[13:15] <seb128> you can't edit the panel at all with mandatory keys?
[13:15] <didrocks> (took one hour of discussion on a Saturday, not always pleasant)
[13:15] <didrocks> seb128: right, you can't
[13:15] <seb128> or just not move the mandatory components?
[13:15] <didrocks> you can't add/remove/move
[13:15] <didrocks> (and can't add any other panel too)
[13:16] <didrocks> pitti: ok, so, make sense for the caching thing. Not as easy as I guessed at first glance
[13:17] <seb128> didrocks, do you have a statement of what the une session is meant to be?
[13:17] <seb128> I'm being confuse about the purpose
[13:17] <seb128> is that something to make easy to try une
[13:17] <seb128> is that something which should allow full experience on both sessions
[13:18] <seb128> or rather something to have a feel of what une is?
[13:18] <didrocks> seb128: that's what I mostly answered on the bug reports "if you want to edit panels, use GNOME session now available"
[13:18] <seb128> ie should config changes goes over to gnome session and back
[13:18] <seb128> you might want to provide a script to turn the GNOME session in une
[13:19] <didrocks> seb128: hence my first sentence. Do we want to state "the default panel is the UNE experience and we don't want user to change it"
[13:19] <seb128> so users who want to use une can run that and will get the gnome-panel configured etc
[13:19] <seb128> and keep using their normal session
[13:19] <seb128> which will be an une one
[13:19] <seb128> the script would set gnome-panel user config to une layout
[13:19] <seb128> and change some autostart .config desktop files etc
[13:19] <seb128> and say that the une session is a locked une demo
[13:20] <seb128> those who really want to use une daily can turn their default session to an une ...
[13:21] <didrocks> seb128: hum, difficult as UNE as dedicated applets (home-swichter, window-picker-applets) that you don't want in your normal GNOME session. Also, how determine that the user just wants one panel, and so on…
[13:21] <seb128> ?
[13:21] <seb128> there is no GNOME session in what I suggest
[13:21] <seb128> the script would configure your GNOME as an UNE session
[13:22] <seb128> you wouldn't have a GNOME session
[13:22] <seb128> that's for those who want to use UNE and not GNOME stock
[13:22] <didrocks> oh ok
[13:22] <seb128> you would have the UNE locked session for testing
[13:22] <didrocks> some kind of "revert to previous state", only having one session
[13:22] <seb128> and the option to run this convert script
[13:22] <seb128> to make your GNOME session match UNE
[13:23] <seb128> in which you would have no mandatory etc
[13:23] <didrocks> the issue is that we would write/cp some files outside of any packaging management
[13:24] <seb128> well that's user config
[13:24] <seb128> it's not an issue to provide configuration tools
[13:24] <seb128> I see 2 options
[13:24] <didrocks> I'm thinking about the gconf keys in /usr/share/gconf/
[13:24] <seb128> either do what I just described
[13:25] <seb128> or do 2 independant sessions using option3
[13:25] <seb128> in which case they would be really independant
[13:25] <seb128> ie not share clock locations etc
[13:25] <seb128> that would be by design
[13:25] <seb128> since they are independant
[13:27] <didrocks> hum, right, but that can be quite short to achieve before FF (as I guess they asked that from gconf and there is no "other user session" gconf). You lost all your apps config and such
[13:27] <didrocks> as it's asking gconf for the right value
[13:28] <seb128> what is "that"?
[13:28] <seb128> in "they asked that"
[13:29] <didrocks> seb128: configuring the panel
[13:30] <seb128> didrocks, I'm not sure I follow you there
[13:30] <seb128> I would say check with rick and,or pitti what you want the experience to be first, then decide on what to do...
[13:30] <seb128> ie do you want the session to be locked or not
[13:30] <seb128> do you want it to be a demo or something users can run daily and customize
[13:31] <seb128> should the config changes go to the GNOME session too or not, and the other way around too
[13:31] <didrocks> seb128: that's why I wrote this on the spec, to share with you, pitti (and rick when he will be there)
[13:32] <seb128> I don't feel I know enough about the goal of this work to have an opinion
[13:32] <seb128> I can give technical opinion on how to achieve one of the goals
[13:32] <seb128> but I've not clue about what the purpose of this session should be
[13:32] <didrocks> seb128: the thing is that the session is not only a "UNE demo", it's UNE (there is no difference with UNE stock install)
[13:33] <pitti> seb128: the fourth solution would seem to be the best experience-wise, but if as you say that's hard to implement, nevermind
[13:33] <pitti> sorry, didrocks ^
[13:34] <pitti> please don't set up a parallel gconf tree or something like that
[13:34] <seb128> didrocks, UNE stock install use mandatory settigns too?
[13:34] <seb128> pitti, why not?
[13:34] <seb128> pitti, it would not be a dup gconf config but just gnome-panel and gnome-panel-une
[13:35] <seb128> pitti, ie namespace some keys and patch gnome-panel to read the namespaced version
[13:35] <pitti> seb128: right, a new gconf dir /apps/gnome-panel-une/ is fine for me
[13:35] <pitti> but not a ~/.gconf-une/
[13:35] <didrocks> pitti: the 4th solution will only force to have one panel and what applets you have in your session (as the mandatory key are still needed for /apps/panel/general/{applet_id_list,object_id_list,toplevel_id_list}
[13:35] <pitti> seb128: I agree
[13:35] <pitti> didrocks: fundamentally I'd consider the UNE panel and GNOME panel as two separate entities wrt. experience and configuration
[13:35] <didrocks> pitti: this is the second solution in fact (something like /apps/gnome-panel-session), more generic
[13:35] <pitti> and not try to "merge" their configuration space
[13:36] <didrocks> if it's ok for you and seb128, I can do that (instead on working on keys, just /apps/panel-{session}
[13:36] <pitti> didrocks: /apps/panel/general/toplevel_id_list/toplevel_id-une is a bit too interleaved for my taste, but I could live with it
[13:37] <didrocks> pitti: right, I like more your idea, more generic :)
[13:37] <pitti> I'd actually prefer /apps/panel-${session}/general/...
[13:37] <didrocks> seb128: ? ^
[13:37] <seb128> I'm not really sure
[13:37] <seb128> I think the namespace one is the best way to achieve what you want
[13:38] <seb128> but that will only unsync the gnome-panel config changes
[13:38] <seb128> not sure if others should be considered
[13:38] <seb128> I've the feeling this is turning to something not easy to get working and bug prone too
[13:38] <seb128> which I would like to avoid for the lts
[13:39] <seb128> my favorite option right now would be what I described before
[13:39] <seb128> declared UNE a demo locked session
[13:39] <seb128> and let people who want to use a customize UNE to turn their GNOME into one
[13:39] <seb128> I think the UNE session is not worth destabilizing the default desktop for a lts
[13:39] <didrocks> seb128: but there is no "demo" and the default UNE will be the same (there is no difference in installing ubuntu-desktop and then UNE or UNE and then ubuntu-desktop)
[13:40] <didrocks> just to ensure you know that, it seems you think that's a seperate functionnality :)
[13:40] <pitti> didrocks: I just don't understand how this is suddenly a new problem? previous UNE releases certainly didn't behave any different?
[13:41] <seb128> didrocks, I don't see why you couldn't dump the gnome-panel une profile on UNE install
[13:42] <didrocks> pitti: in fact, previous version were using the gnome session, so you weren't able to have both sessions
[13:42] <seb128> didrocks, well right not you could have UNE without mandatory use by writting the correct gnome-panel profile
[13:42] <didrocks> seb128: installing gnome session on une was also on the spec. If we copy that, we can't have the gnome session back
[13:42] <pitti> didrocks: oh, it's because in normal ubuntu you can now install ubuntu-netbook to get the netbook-launcher session in gdm as well, and that would lock your main GNOME panel?
[13:42] <seb128> not -> now
[13:43] <didrocks> pitti: right, all the tree is copied on install
[13:43] <didrocks> seb128: on karmic? this is because you can't run ubuntu-desktop as well
[13:45] <seb128> didrocks, no, I'm not speaking about karmic
[13:45] <seb128> but I think what I'm suggesting is to get on lucid what we had on karmic
[13:45] <seb128> + current hack which give you a locked UNE session
[13:45] <seb128> or mandatory gnome-panel UNE config
[13:46] <seb128> or whatever you want to call it
[13:46] <didrocks> seb128: the first solution remove a part of the spec "having UNE and install ubuntu-desktop session on it"
[13:46] <didrocks> (if we do that by default on une installation)
[13:47] <didrocks> but well, keeping it mandatory can be a good thing, it was really difficult to add new applets to previous UNR panel
[13:48] <pitti> didrocks: how can you keep the UNE panel mandatory while still leaving the GNOME one alone?
[13:49] <pitti> didrocks: we have some magic to include (or not) /usr/share/gconf/une.mandatory.path on a per-session basis?
[13:49] <didrocks> pitti: you add to gconf a path depending on gdm session which is /var/lib/gconf/<session>.{mandatory,default}
[13:49] <pitti> ah, I see
[13:50] <pitti> didrocks: so, if locking the GNOME panel when ubuntu-netbook is installed isn't an issue, just lock it and say "that's the UNE panel, dammit"
[13:51] <seb128> pitti, user gnome-panel is not locked right, it's only the UNE one which use mandatory settings
[13:51] <seb128> and yeah, +1 from me to say that
[13:51] <didrocks> pitti: that's what we have from the start
[13:51] <didrocks> and how I imagined the thing
[13:51] <seb128> + maybe provide a small wrapper which dump UNE config on your user
[13:51] <seb128> to turn your GNOME session in une
[13:51] <didrocks> well, I just had a lot of complaints, even in a alpha :)
[13:52] <seb128> you always have people to complain
[13:52] <didrocks> seb128: right, for those user, we can do that
[13:52] <pitti> "wontfix" then
[13:53] <didrocks> ok, and about sharing the same time applet? do we keep two seperate?
[13:53] <seb128> whatever is easier
[13:53] <seb128> I want to avoid hacks, especially those who could create bugs in the GNOME session
[13:54] <didrocks> ok, I'll speak about that with rick just to confirm that's the way we go and if we say "this is the une panel", nothing to touch so :)
[13:55] <seb128> good
[13:55] <seb128> and tell users who really use UNE to turn their default session to an UNE one
[13:55] <seb128> there they can edit they gnome-panel etc
[13:55] <seb128> I mean if they complain about the lack of edit option
[13:56] <didrocks> seb128: so, I still have to provide this script
[13:56] <seb128> not especially
[13:56] <seb128> you can reply for now that they can configure their GNOME to be similar to UNE
[13:56] <didrocks> to turn their default session to an UNE one?
[13:56] <didrocks> ok
[13:56] <seb128> well it takes some 5 minutes
[13:56] <seb128> move some applets around
[13:56] <seb128> drop those you don't want
[13:56] <seb128> change theme
[13:57] <didrocks> and start netbook-launcher
[13:57] <seb128> add some autostart to the session
[13:57] <didrocks> right
[13:57] <seb128> you can document that on a wikipage if you want
[13:57] <seb128> or let users do that for you
[13:58] <didrocks> should be easy to document, I will do that after alpha3
[14:00] <didrocks> thanks for the feedbacks seb128 and pitti :)
[14:00] <seb128> np
[14:00] <pitti> didrocks: thanks to you
[14:13] <seb128> oh nice, bug #594831 commited to git
[14:13] <seb128> gnome bug #594831
[14:13] <seb128> tseliot, ^
[14:13] <seb128> g-s-d has code to disable touchapd now + a gconf key
[14:13]  * tseliot has a look
[14:14] <tseliot> ah, nice
[14:14] <seb128> tseliot, not sure if we still want a capplet UI for it or not
[14:14] <seb128> but that should make it trivial to do
[14:15] <tseliot> yes, if the code is already in place then the UI will require minimal effort
[14:15] <tseliot> not that the whole task requires a lot of work anyway ;)
[14:15] <seb128> right
[14:16] <fagan> is the sound indicator in lucid not working for everyone?
[14:16] <fagan> Its not changing the sound level
[14:17] <davmor2> fagan: check it's using the right hardware
[14:18] <fagan> davmor2: it seems to be
[14:18] <seb128> fagan, there is a known bugs with some audiosink configs
[14:18] <seb128> works for me and other people who tried there
[14:18] <fagan> it worked before with the notification area indicator
[14:19] <fagan> its ever since it moved to the new spec
[14:19] <fagan> hmmmm
[14:19] <seb128> well as said there is a known bug
[14:19] <seb128> maybe your config in this case
[14:19] <seb128> wait for the fix to be uploaded
[14:19] <fagan> sure
[14:24] <fagan> seb128: does using the mouse wheel work on the new sound indicator?
[14:25] <chrisccoulson> fagan - in the menu, yes
[14:26] <fagan> nice
[14:26] <seb128> fagan, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/indicator-sound/+bugs
[14:26] <seb128> fagan, you might want to check launchpad before asking on IRC
[14:26] <seb128> it takes around as much time and you can probably do that without getting help from other people there ;-)
[14:27] <seb128> which would allow other people to be distracted less in their work too
[14:28] <fagan> noted
[14:28] <seb128> thanks
[14:45] <chrisccoulson> is anyone else seeing random FS corruption in lucid?
[14:45] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine mentioned it last week
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> and i had issues several times over the weekend too
[14:46] <james_w> ext4?
[14:46] <fagan> I havent seen it
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> james_w: yeah
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> it just randomly messes up and remounts RO
[14:46] <chrisccoulson> then i have to fsck from a live CD to recover it
[14:47] <chrisccoulson> it did it twice yesterday
[14:47] <fagan> chrisccoulson: did you pull out a usb device without safely removing it
[14:47] <fagan> thats the only way I got that before
[14:47] <chrisccoulson> fagan: this is my internal hard drive
[14:47] <fagan> But pulling out my ipod currupted my hd a few times
[14:48] <fagan> orphaned innodes
[14:48] <chrisccoulson> i'm not sure why that would happen, but it seems unrelated to my problem (i'm not connecting any external media)
[14:49] <james_w> chrisccoulson: any kernel oopses or anything?
[14:51] <chrisccoulson> james_w - not that i've noticed. i do have a few ext4 errors in dmesg, but they aren't saved to disk
[14:51] <chrisccoulson> in fact, the errors i get are very similar to comment 5 in bug 438379
[15:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm not but I didn't still use the 3 there
[15:02] <desrt> good morning, all
[15:04] <seb128> hey desrt
[15:05] <seb128> desrt, thanks for the eog change
[15:05] <desrt> yup.  no problems.
[15:05] <desrt> i built a package in my PPA if you want to test it out
[15:05]  * seb128 hugs desrt
[15:05] <seb128> desrt, I tested it out locally
[15:05] <desrt> applies almost cleanly against karmic.. just a one-liner configure.ac that fails
[15:05] <desrt> cool
[15:06] <desrt> we're not string frozen upstream yet, so it's possible we could have it this cycle if we push hard
[15:06] <seb128> desrt, but thanks
[15:06] <seb128> yeah
[15:06] <desrt> seb128: ran into a bit of an issue when doing the patch...
[15:06] <desrt> fspot doesn't actually.. uh.. have an editor
[15:07] <seb128> right, it has in the library but not the view mode
[15:07] <seb128> which was another work item
[15:07] <seb128> kenvandine has that almost done apparently
[15:07] <seb128> should land in lucid this week
[15:07] <desrt> sweet.  good timing.
[15:07] <seb128> wth
[15:07] <seb128> laptop just suspendend on vt switch
[15:08] <seb128> suspended
[15:08] <desrt> gnome-p-m is a win :)
[15:09] <chrisccoulson> it seems like we need someone to volunteer to fix g-p-m bugs ;)
[15:09] <seb128> hum
[15:09] <seb128> we need somebody new to join the team
[15:09] <seb128> and taking on new challenges
[15:09] <desrt> i vote hughsie :)
[15:09]  * seb128 wonders who could that be
[15:10] <chrisccoulson> heh, yeah, i wonder who that could be ;)
[15:10] <seb128> ;-)
[15:10] <chrisccoulson> would that be the same person to maintain compiz?
[15:10]  * pitti eyes RAOF
[15:11] <seb128> chrisccoulson, that was my though too!
[15:11] <chrisccoulson> lol
[15:11] <seb128> pitti, oh, that's another option, I was thinking to somebody would work on some web browser too
[15:12] <seb128> pitti, and would need to do something else for a change sometime ;-)
[15:12] <pitti> seb128: yeah, I know; good idea!
[15:12] <seb128> otherwise we can still play the newest employee card on didrocks
[15:12] <seb128> ;-)
[15:12] <didrocks> hu, what? /me runs :-)
[15:13] <seb128> didrocks, you like gpm don't you? ;-)
[15:13]  * didrocks thinks he should think widely before answering ;-)
[15:15] <didrocks> I'm fighting with gdk_screen_get_default() and gdk_display_get_default() returning both NULL… weird
[15:20] <seb128> brb
[15:20] <desrt> didrocks: did you gtk_init?
[15:21] <didrocks> desrt: I'm just adding it in fact :)
[15:21] <desrt> i'm sure you'll find that fixes your problems :)
[15:23] <didrocks> desrt: way way better indeed (I use gdk_init now as not gtk need) :) ok, I can remove my g_type_init too
[15:25] <desrt> didrocks: what the heck are you doing?
[15:31] <didrocks> desrt: triggering a redrawing of the wallpaper during update so that we can cache it (I added caching to new libgnome-destkop)
[15:31] <mclasen> libgnome-desktop already had caching, no ?
[15:31]  * mclasen wonders
[15:32] <didrocks> mclasen: there is no cache on disk (once resize and transformation applied)
[15:33] <mclasen> point me to the bug for it ?
[15:33] <didrocks> mclasen: we saw that resizing the wallpaper with the right transformation had a noticeable CPU cost during startup
[15:33] <didrocks> sure, one sec
[15:33] <didrocks> mclasen: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=608419
[15:34] <didrocks> mclasen: I should refresh the patch with last changes, not had the time yet
[15:35] <desrt> didrocks: fascinating
[15:35] <desrt> mclasen: odd to see you here :)
[15:36] <mclasen> desrt: why ?
[15:36] <desrt> well, i suppose i'm not on the ubuntu desktop team either...
[15:36] <desrt> so maybe not that odd :)
[15:36] <mclasen> well, this is the open side of ubuntu development, so I may as well lurk...
[15:37] <didrocks> do you really think the 105 people around are in the ubuntu desktop team? ;)
[15:38] <desrt> no.  but i expect that they run ubuntu, at least :)
[15:39] <didrocks> right, that should be the case for most of them :)
[15:47] <didrocks> mclasen: if you are interested, I have refreshed the patch with the last changes. attached to the bug
[15:54] <djsiegel1> seb128: hey
[15:54] <seb128> djsiegel1, hello
[15:54] <djsiegel1> seb128: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/hundredpapercuts/+bug/392589 <-- why do you say "this is an upstream issue"?
[15:54] <djsiegel1> Why can't it be an Ubuntu issue?
[15:54] <djsiegel1> We shouldn't have to get upstream to agree to defaults/settings, should we?
[15:55] <seb128> djsiegel1, "Why can't it be an Ubuntu issue?", because we don't have a distro change to change the behaviour
[15:55] <djsiegel1> Why not?
[15:55] <seb128> because we don't?
[15:56] <djsiegel1> I think we shouldn't say "this is an upstream issue" for changes to settings
[15:56] <seb128> I'm not sure to understand your question
[15:56] <seb128> why shouldn't we include upstream in such discussions?
[15:56] <seb128> ie why shouldn't we try to tell them what we think that is better and why
[15:56] <djsiegel1> They can be included, but we shouldn't rely on them at all.
[15:56] <seb128> we don't
[15:57] <djsiegel1> I mean, we should try to convince them and all.
[15:57] <djsiegel1> Ok, I was just unsure of what "this is an upstream issue" meant
[15:57] <seb128> it means 'it's not ubuntu specific'
[15:57] <seb128> or "it's not coming from an ubuntu change"
[15:57] <djsiegel1> hmm, I guess I don't understand that
[15:58] <djsiegel1> I just think if, for example, we want to change a setting for something in Ubuntu, say, Nautilus
[15:58] <seb128> it means the default is set by people writting the code in their source
[15:58] <seb128> not in the ubuntu package
[15:58] <seb128> it doesn't mean we can't overwrite or distro change it
[15:58] <djsiegel1> ok, I think people think it means that
[15:58] <seb128> but when we think what upstream does in its code is wrong we ask people to start a conversation there
[15:58] <djsiegel1> that we are passing the buck
[15:58] <djsiegel1> we should (1) Fix it in ubuntu, and (2) tell upstream what we changed, why, and give them our change
[15:58] <seb128> no
[15:59] <djsiegel1> why not?
[15:59] <seb128> we should make sure somebody open the dialog upstream first
[15:59] <seb128> and do it in ubuntu when that is done
[15:59] <djsiegel1> So, here's an example
[15:59] <djsiegel1> say Nautilus defaults to List view in browser windows
[15:59] <seb128> because otherwise people don't care once it's uploaded and nobody do the effort to discuss upstream
[15:59] <djsiegel1> and we want to default to icon view
[15:59] <djsiegel1> Why don't we just switch to icon view, and tell Nautilus that we think icon view is a better default for users?
[16:00] <seb128> because if I do the change nobody will bother thinking about sending that upstream
[16:00] <djsiegel1> Saying "it's an upstream" seems counterproductive when upstream simply wants a different configuration than we do
[16:00] <seb128> they might or not
[16:00] <djsiegel1> I just like the way we did the compiz settings paper cuts
[16:00] <seb128> I'm asking for somebody to open that discussion before we upload
[16:00] <djsiegel1> ok
[16:00] <seb128> I don't think it's too much to ask
[16:01] <seb128> otherwise we get lot of drawback to not send our work upstream
[16:01] <djsiegel1> Can you make it clear that we are opening a conversation with upstream /in addition to/ the ubuntu conversation?
[16:01] <seb128> or to not discuss with them of changes which make sense
[16:01] <seb128> I'm using a stock bug triage reply
[16:01] <seb128> you are welcome to improve those
[16:01] <djsiegel1> When I read "it's an upstream issue" I feel like it says "it's an upstream issue and therefore not an ubuntu issue"
[16:01] <seb128> or talk to the qa team about improve those
[16:01] <djsiegel1> ok
[16:01] <djsiegel1> I will, who should I ping?
[16:01] <seb128> try bdmurray I would say
[16:01] <djsiegel1> ok, thanks
[16:02] <seb128> djsiegel1, the reply is intended as "the issue is not ubuntu specific and somebody should let upstream know too"
[16:02] <seb128> it doesn't mean we block on upstream to do the work
[16:02] <seb128> but it means somebody needs to get the issue raised there
[16:02] <seb128> often it's also because we don't have the manpower to work on those bugs
[16:03] <djsiegel1> ok
[16:03] <seb128> and rather than letting them stay in our bug tracker we can raise the issue to the software writters
[16:03] <seb128> so at least they know about it
[16:03] <seb128> and the issue get a better chance to have somebody looking at it
[16:20] <sabdfl> is bluez covered here, or in -devel?
[16:47] <geser> did recently the placement of full-screen applications on dual-screen setups changed in metacity? as I see the application start full-screen start on my "main" screen (where the cursor currently is) but then jump to the other screen (happens only for apps started in full-screen)
[16:54] <baptistemm> sabdfl, What would be the question about bluez?
[16:55] <sabdfl> baptistemm: wanted to know why we're on 4.60 not 4.61 which was recently released
[16:55] <baptistemm> sabdfl, api break on 4.61
[16:56] <sabdfl> nice
[16:56] <baptistemm> I sent a mail to linux-bluetooth but get no reply
[16:56] <baptistemm> sabdfl, he took me one month to have 4.60 sponsored, don't count to have 4.61 before one month :)
[16:57] <sabdfl> baptistemm: have you done a lot of uploads for those packages? if so, why not apply for per-package upload perms?
[16:58] <baptistemm> sabdfl, no no I'm helping of few package not that much
[16:58] <baptistemm> +s
[16:58] <sabdfl> baptistemm: if you mostly do work on a few specific packages, and you are good with those, then you can get permission to upload those packages directly
[16:59] <baptistemm> usually I do the upload when it's easy, for harder I let superm do them
[17:00] <baptistemm> sabdfl, you're interested to have the latest bluez for a particular feature?
[17:00] <sabdfl> no, just bug fixes, i happened to browse the site and notice the difference with the new packages that arrived yesterday and today (thanks for those :-))
[17:01] <baptistemm> the latest one seems to had a lot of testing, so I'm interested to have it too
[17:02] <chrisccoulson> still no response about bumping the soname?
[17:02] <baptistemm> no :-/
[17:02] <baptistemm> I would prefer to have the API restore, less much work
[17:03] <chrisccoulson> it wouldn't be nice to maintain that though
[17:03] <baptistemm> it would require to have all applications rebuilt with new bluez, even if they don't use the API which was dropped
[17:03] <baptistemm> ?
[17:04] <james_w> yes
[17:07] <didrocks> pitti: seb128: in which package do you think it makes sense to have the "refresh the cache" trigger? libgnome-desktop-2-17 itself are add a new bin package?
[17:08] <seb128> didrocks, do you need a trigger for that?
[17:09] <didrocks> seb128: if you want to have it before rebooting on update right
[17:10] <seb128> didrocks, why does it need to be a trigger? trigger would monitor any image in the dir not only the default one
[17:10] <didrocks> seb128: sorry, wrong term, I mean "to trigger" -> "to force caching"
[17:12] <didrocks> (it's just a simple executable, and I wonder in which package to put it)
[17:13] <seb128> didrocks, can you do a summary of the changes?
[17:13] <seb128> I've not followed enough that part and I'm confused now
[17:13] <seb128> libgnome-desktop does cache the image by user
[17:13] <seb128> then...?
[17:15] <james_w> didrocks: executable in lib package == bad idea. lib packages should be co-installable and putting a binary in there defeats that unless it has the soname in the binary name
[17:15] <didrocks> right, and then, to force caching when people will do there dist-upgrade from karmic to lucid, so that we have the cached wallpaper taken into account in first ureadahead, run a script in a postinst that force the cachin go the wallpaper
[17:16] <didrocks> james_w: ok, and so, just an new bin package for an executable in that case
[17:17] <seb128> didrocks, how do you force the cache?
[17:17] <didrocks> seb128: calling draw_image_bg () from the libgnome-desktop lib
[17:18] <seb128> on what image?
[17:18] <mvo> didrocks: think of ... *multi-arch* ;)
[17:18] <seb128> is that a by user thing?
[17:18]  * mvo heard rumors that its just around the corner
[17:19] <didrocks> seb128: no, only the current user, but it's just for ureadahead which is already the current one
[17:19] <didrocks> mvo: hum?
[17:19] <seb128> didrocks, I don't get how that works
[17:19] <seb128> didrocks, how the postinst known what user refresh?
[17:19] <seb128> and where will the cached image be written?
[17:20] <mvo> didrocks: re lib packages and binaries in them
[17:20] <didrocks> mvo: oh ok :)
[17:20] <mvo> executables I mean
[17:20] <mvo> multi-arch multi-arch multi-arch
[17:20] <seb128> mvo, another pet project of yours? ;-)
[17:21] <mvo> weekend fun
[17:21] <didrocks> seb128: don't get that tried yet, but I was thinking of relying on $USER or other stuff like that
[17:21] <mvo> just kidding, but I got a great guy who is really working on it now
[17:21] <mvo> so it may become reality
[17:21] <seb128> didrocks, that starts to seem hackish again
[17:21] <seb128> mvo, you? ;-)
[17:22] <mvo> my split personality ;)
[17:23] <didrocks> seb128: see the mail you received the 02/09
[17:24] <didrocks> (martin, rick and I)
[17:24] <seb128> didrocks, I deleted part of my inbox by error
[17:24] <seb128> I don't have this one
[17:25] <didrocks> oh, that's why you didn't follow it :)
[17:26] <seb128> no, it's rather than I'm crazy busy
[17:26] <seb128> and you tend to ping a lot recently so I've difficulties to follow on everything ;-)
[17:28] <didrocks> seb128: I try to only ping you just to agree on technical stuff before doing things you don't like :-)
[17:28] <seb128> lol
[17:49] <pitti_> didrocks: refresh the cache package> hm, putting the script into libgnome-desktop-2-17 would cause problems on a soname bump; gnome-settings-daemon would work for me
[17:49] <pitti_> sorry, got disconnected (server down)
[17:50] <pitti_> didrocks: oh, I don't think we need a trigger; just do it on "configure"
[17:50] <didrocks> pitti_: no pb, I still have to get the current running user too in postinst
[17:50] <pitti_> didrocks: iterate over pidof gnome-settings-daemon
[17:50] <didrocks> pitti_: yeah, I used "to trigger" instead of "to execute"
[17:51] <seb128> pitti_, would work only for connected users then
[17:51] <pitti_> *shrug* "good enough"?
[17:52] <pitti_> I wouldn't try to extend it too much; /home might be on a remote drive, etc.
[17:52] <pitti_> if a user has a local running session, we can reasonably assume that his home dir is working and in use
[17:52] <pitti_> but others might have encrypted home, mount-on-pam, and what not
[17:53] <pitti_> you open a can of worms with that MIHO
[17:53] <pitti_> IMHO, even
[17:53] <seb128> I wouldn't bother at all about first reboot but *shrug*
[17:54] <seb128> and we should really get some update-manager infrastructure for user config changes on upgrade
[17:54] <pitti_> same problem: first reboot -> ureadahead -> you're going to miss the caching forever
[17:54] <seb128> where "config" is not configuration file but tweaking we do a lot
[17:54] <mvo> seb128: yes
[17:54] <mvo> seb128: what is it this time?
[17:54] <seb128> pitti_, "forever"? can't we trigger 2 profiling in a row?
[17:55] <seb128> mvo, caching the user background on upgrade
[17:55] <pitti_> seb128: not as user, in the caching code
[17:55] <seb128> pitti_, do we profile user dir at all?
[17:55] <pitti_> yes, we do
[17:55] <pitti_> anythign which gets started in the first 45 s
[17:57] <seb128> still thinking about it
[17:57] <seb128> I really think such hooks should go to update-manager
[17:57] <seb128> not random packages like gnome-settings-daemon
[17:59] <pitti_> no objection
[18:01] <rickspencer3> hi all
[18:02] <rickspencer3> pitti_, seb128, didrocks, kenvandine, Riddell, ccheney, etc...
[18:02] <pitti_> hey rickspencer3
[18:02] <rickspencer3> sorry to interrupt, but wanted to remind all ...
[18:02] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[18:02] <rickspencer3> last week for blueprint work this week!
[18:02] <rickspencer3> then it's:
[18:02] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[18:02] <seb128> wououh
[18:02] <rickspencer3> 1. find and fix the worst bugs
[18:02] <rickspencer3> 2. ensure a smooth upgrade experience
[18:02] <rickspencer3> 3. integrate the latest and greatest
[18:02]  * rickspencer3 starts chanting
[18:03] <rickspencer3> :)
[18:03] <rickspencer3> pitti_, what would you think about getting a list of bugs and running a burndown chart for them
[18:03] <rickspencer3> (not to fill the capacity of the team, but just to make sure we are focused on some of the most widespread issues)
[18:03] <rickspencer3> ?
[18:03] <rickspencer3> just a thought
[18:04] <pitti_> rickspencer3: can we link them on a "desktop-lucid-bug-fixing" blueprint? then it's easy
[18:04] <pitti_> (and target that to final)
[18:04] <rickspencer3> kewl
[18:05] <rickspencer3> what about the whole notion of burning down bugs, like making a list and burning it down?
[18:05] <rickspencer3> would it be useful to rally the troops, or just extra bookkeeping
[18:05] <rickspencer3> ?
[18:08] <pitti_> rickspencer3: to be honest, I think +assignedbugs and targetting them to lucid should do
[18:08] <baptistemm> hello again
[18:08] <pitti_> ooh, my server's back!
[18:08] <pitti_> bbl
[18:09] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[18:10] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti-
[18:10] <rickspencer3> ttyt
[18:10]  * rickspencer3 goes back to holiday
[18:11] <mvo> seb128: agreed, not for lucid though :(
[18:11] <didrocks> just to finish on the caching thing, so, do you want both the bin and the call in in update-manager, or just the executable in update-manger and the call in postinst of ubuntu-wallpapers for instance?
[18:14] <baptistemm> didrocks, did you push your fix wallpaper?
[18:15] <didrocks> baptistemm: pushed, but not sponsored yet, not had the time to ask
[18:15] <baptistemm> ah you need sponsoring?
[18:15] <didrocks> baptistemm: for gnome-desktop, yes
[18:16] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - when are you going for core-dev?
[18:16] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: not that week as the schedule is already busy, so, first session in March
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> cool:)
[18:17] <chrisccoulson> just so i know when to start pinging you for sponsoring work for me ;)
[18:18] <didrocks> heh
[18:18] <seb128> didrocks, seems mvo says for next cycle, please ignore my comment and go with what pitti suggested
[18:18] <pitti> seb128: nice, we'll get something like that?
[18:20] <seb128> pitti, let's see, I want to discuss it at uds at least
[18:21] <seb128> but time for sport for now
[18:21] <seb128> that will be for later
[18:21] <seb128> see you later everybody!
[18:21] <didrocks> seb128: enjoy
[18:21] <seb128> thanks
[18:21] <seb128> bbl
[18:21] <didrocks> pitti: so, I'm adding both things to g-s-d (the postinst call too)
[18:25] <baptistemm> ah new gnome-bluetooth, I take it
[18:28] <asac> pitti: remember that tbird locales had a depends: thunderbird | language-support-translations-de ... language-support is gone, does it mean we dont do alternative depends at all? (e.g. because its now recommended by language-pack-* ?)
[18:28] <asac> hmmm ... seems its not referred to by language-pack*
[18:29] <pitti> asac: yes, the alternative deps are not necessary any more
[18:29] <pitti> it's now installed by language-selector
[18:29] <asac> ok thanks for the confirm
[18:29] <asac> ah cool. so it explicitly installs them
[18:29] <asac> nice
[18:39] <pitti> good night everyone
[18:50] <mvo> didrocks: weehh, sorry, I just wanted to say "no generic framework this cycle"
[18:51] <asac> bratsche: animated pixbuf gtkcellrenderer is evil? is there an easy way/code snippet?
[18:51] <mvo> didrocks: if there is a propersal that fits into u-m can we can do that
[18:51] <mvo> asac: software-center has one
[18:51] <mvo> asac: AnimatedImage in softwarecenter/view/widgets IIRC
[18:51] <asac> so custom?
[18:51] <mvo> yes
[18:51] <mvo> what do you need it for (just curious)
[18:51] <asac> how do you trigger invalidation of the right pieces?
[18:52] <asac> mvo: for a cool tree view ;)
[18:52] <mvo> what does the cool treeview do?
[18:52] <asac> err for an iconurl image that loads ;)
[18:52] <asac> from the web
[18:52] <mvo> asac: it does a qeue_draw_area in a gtimeout
[18:53] <mvo> asac: check s-c, it has a full widget for this (CellRendererAnimateImage
[18:53] <asac> yeah ;)
[18:53] <asac> i will check that
[18:54] <mvo> ok
[18:54] <asac> find | grep Animat
[18:54] <bratsche> asac: I don't know, I've never tried that.  I can try to find time to test it out later if you need.
[18:54] <asac> nuothing ;)
[18:55] <asac> bratsche: no its fine. i just wondered if i could put a value in there and the list store would recognize a notify or something and then emit row-changed or something ... but i will check what mvo did ;)
[18:55] <bratsche> Cool.
[18:55] <asac> mvo: there is no Animated
[18:55] <asac> in the full tree
[18:55] <asac> ;)
[18:55] <asac> oh its lowercase
[18:55] <asac> nevermind
[18:56] <bratsche> I really would like to look into improving animation support in gtk+ during the next couple cycles though.
[18:56] <bratsche> I have some ideas, and I think owen has some as well so I should talk to him about it more.
[18:57] <asac> mvo: ok so you redraw all rows
[18:57] <asac> i would have hoped the store would just trigger the right row somehow
[18:58] <asac> is it true that row-changed is the best we have? rather than just "cell changed"?
[19:00] <mclasen> there's no cells in models...
[19:00] <asac> now that i think about it i see that ;)
[19:01] <mvo> asac: it should just redraw the area
[19:01] <bratsche> Hi mclasen, how's it going?
[19:01]  * asac looks in treestore code
[19:02] <asac> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/377049/ you do that
[19:02] <mclasen> bratsche: could be better
[19:02] <mvo> asac: if you need something that updates, check the software-center/view/app.py stuff
[19:02] <mvo> asac: right, it redraws the cell area with the animated image - is that not what you want?
[19:03] <bratsche> mclasen: Bummer. :(
[19:05] <mvo> asac: I need to do some $stuff, if you need anything beside the examples, please talk to me tomorrow (sorry)
[19:06] <asac> mvo: all fine i think
[19:06] <asac> mvo: i need something slightly different imo ... but i have to think a bit about it ;) enjoy!
[19:38] <didrocks> mvo: what do you think? it's just a bin that should be run in a postinst. If you don't want to add overengeneering and we should execute it in a postinst, I'm fine with that.
[19:45] <baptistemm> dpkg-gensymbols list public symbols only ?
[19:59] <baptistemm> someone can help me for http://launchpadlibrarian.net/39239732/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.gnome-bluetooth_2.29.91-0ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz, bling_spinner_get_type disappeared but the maintainer told me it was not a public symbols ...
[19:59] <baptistemm> so I bump anyway soname?
[20:21] <chrisccoulson> milanbv - you release too frequently :P
[20:21] <chrisccoulson> i only just uploaded 2.29.90 ;)
[20:30] <chrisccoulson> baptistemm, dpkg-gensymbols will generate a list of symbols exported by the shared libraries
[20:30] <chrisccoulson> your build log has gone already?
[20:37] <seb128> pochu, hi
[20:37] <seb128> pochu, do you think you could upload gir-repository without webkit binary to debian?
[20:38] <chrisccoulson> baptistemm, it seems like bling_spinner_get_type was only exported by accident, and isn't part of the public API
[20:38] <seb128> pochu, right now the binaries between it and webkit conflict, not sure how that works in debian but that breaks binary uploads in ubuntu
[20:38] <chrisccoulson> that's not in any public header anywhere
[20:38] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
[20:38] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, better
[20:39] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I had a not so great day, lot of emails, IRC pings, etc, I didn't manage to get things I want to do done
[20:39] <seb128> but just back from sport, the break was welcome ;-)
[20:40] <seb128> I will get dinner and a shower now and then try to catch up with some of the things I didn't do
[20:40] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i've not got very much done today ;)
[20:40] <seb128> while still going to bed not too late
[20:40] <chrisccoulson> you've not had dinner yet?
[20:40] <seb128> no, I just came back from sport
[20:40] <seb128> I don't eat before because sport on a full stomach doesn't work for me
[20:41] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can imagine it would be difficult eating before ;)
[20:41] <seb128> just some fruits or cake or something small usually
[20:42] <seb128> hum
[20:42] <seb128> bug #522291
[20:43] <seb128> weird bug
[20:44]  * seb128 dups and reassign to update-manager
[20:44] <mvo> *pfff*
[20:45]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[20:45] <seb128> mvo, sorry I didn't know you were still there ;-)
[20:45] <seb128> "error writing to '<standard output>': Success"
[20:45] <seb128> mvo, ^ I like that error :-p
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> lol
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> that's a good error
[20:46] <seb128> mvo, I reassign to update-manager because the user says the gui closed during upgrade btw, not because of the package installation issue
[20:46] <seb128> which are probably "not a bug", just side effect of the gui closing
[20:51] <milanbv> chrisccoulson: yeah, I know ;-)
[20:51] <didrocks> well, let's go to bed. Have a good evening everyone o/
[20:51] <chrisccoulson> 'night didrocks
[20:51] <didrocks> thanks chrisccoulson, you too
[20:51] <milanbv> since I'm going to be way for 3 weeks, I had to release 2.29.90 now
[20:52] <chrisccoulson> milanbv - i'll update it in a few days ;)
[20:52] <milanbv> but it leaves you 3 weeks before 2.29.92 :-p
[20:52] <pochu> seb128: I think so, let me see
[20:52] <milanbv> I didn't think you would package 2.29.3 just today
[20:52] <milanbv> I should have told you
[20:52] <seb128> 'night didrocks
[20:52] <seb128> pochu, thanks
[20:54] <milanbv> s/2.29.3/2.29.90/ && s/2.29.90/2.29.91/ <- I have to go to sleep
[20:55] <milanbv> (I can't keep up either)
[21:00] <chrisccoulson> bah, i can't install anjuta on my machine
[21:01] <chrisccoulson> oh, thats because it FTBFS on amd64
[21:07] <pochu> seb128: uploading ;)
[22:04] <bratsche> Anyone here very familiar with the Nautilus codebase by any chance?
[22:32] <pochu> bratsche: dunno, but there's #nautilus on gimpnet
[22:34] <seiflotfy> seb128, is rickspencer around?
[22:35] <seb128> seiflotfy, today is a national holiday in for him so he's not there
[22:37] <seiflotfy> seb128, ok :)
[22:37] <robert_ancell> seb128, which holiday is it?
[22:37] <seb128> robert_ancell, don't ask me I've no clue ;-)
[22:37] <robert_ancell> hey seiflotfy
[22:38] <seiflotfy> hi robert_ancell
[23:17] <robert_ancell> pitti, is there a udev tool you can run to see the udev events?
[23:22] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: udevmonitor I think it is.
[23:22] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, do you know what package that is in?
[23:26] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: sorry udevadm is the command with a monitor argument
[23:26] <TheMuso> man udevadm