[00:07] <bazhang> Myrtti, thanks for clearing the mutes.
[00:10] <bazhang> odd that I can no longer see the mutes as before (ie below the banlist) and Operserv has replaced the usual verne.freenode.net in banlist
[00:22] <Flannel> Mutes aren't +b anymore, they're entirely separate (/mode +q)
[00:25] <bazhang> Flannel, right, but don't show up in any xchat windows I can see
[00:25] <Flannel> bazhang: even when you /mode +q?
[02:26] <Gla> hey guys, how's it going?
[02:26] <Gla> anyone around to talk with about community management?
[02:47] <Flannel> Gla: What?
[02:47] <Flannel> Oh.
[02:47] <Flannel> Hi Gla, How can we help you today?
[02:48] <Flannel> Hi rahduke, How can we help you today?
[02:49] <rahduke> woops, didnt even mean to join this chan.... Gla would like to speak to someone regarding the IRC chan though
[02:54]  * MenZa pokes Gla 
[02:54] <MenZa> How can we help you? :)
[02:55] <Flannel> MenZa: Got him in query
[02:55] <MenZa> Gotcha -- carry on :)
[02:56] <Gla> cool, I'll actually move it to here so you guys can take it all in
[02:56] <Gla> I've been in the midst of writing a software project with a few people to basically re-create IRC on the web.  We've been writing the software for 1 1/2 years, and we're probably going to open up a private beta soon.
[02:57] <Gla> I myself am a huge IRC addict, as I use IRC pretty much 24/7 for the last 12 years of my life, though it has a lot of problems for larger communities, people out of IRC using it, etc
[02:58] <Gla> so we're basically creating an easy to use interface, making "channels"/topics searchable, etc, and allowing each channel to have a public presence while adhereing many of the same concepts of IRC to our system and some
[02:59] <Gla> I would certainly like to get some feedback from you guys on how Ubuntu uses IRC, some of the pain points that it sees, and any other feedback/things you might have to add, as this has been my entire life for the past 1 1/2 years :)
[02:59] <Gla> we're going to open our beta in a month or so
[02:59] <Gla> or, testing platform so to speak.
[03:01] <Gla> so I would like to know if Ubuntu might like to try this out, and also know what Ubuntu sees as pain points within IRC, as that's a huge thing we're trying to solve.  Accessability, useability, scale-ing to larger user basis, and search are some things we see as pain points.
[03:02] <Gla> *cough*
[03:06] <Gla> MenZa, Flannel , ?
[03:09] <MenZa> Interesting, to say the least, Gla.
[03:10] <MenZa> As for "IRC on the web", what exactly... do you mean by that?
[03:10] <Gla> building a platform that is dedicated to servicing real-time communities.
[03:11] <MenZa> So, is it an implementation on the IRC RFC, or is it a built-from-scratch protocol and standard?
[03:11] <Gla> built from scratch
[03:13] <Gla> we're not going to be opening it for another month or so, though I was curious if you guys would like to atleast give it a shot and some feedback with your needs
[03:13] <MenZa> See, I'm trying to find out where to direct you regarding this query -- it's definitely beyond the scope of this channel, but let me think for a second.
[03:13] <Gla> the jQuery community is going to help us test some stuff so far, and we were looking for another community that might be interested in giving some feedback for our service
[03:17] <MenZa> Flannel: suggestions?
[03:29] <Flannel> Migrating the Ubuntu community would be way too much of a task
[03:29] <Gla> well of course it would.
[03:30] <Flannel> It's not something you can easily say "Ok, we're using foobar now" and have happen without headaches
[03:30] <Gla> we don't think a complete migration is merely possible, though we think 2 can exist at once.
[03:31] <Gla> as there are many many users who don't use IRC who use Ubuntu, so the people and userbase is different
[03:49] <Flannel> I was talking about the IRC portion
[03:50] <Gla> well, I would say it's fairly safe to say that one could exist for IRC users, and the other exist for other users, though serving similar functionality.  Kinda the same way forums and irc, both exist.
[03:50] <Flannel> Gla: What sort of an interface are we talking about?
[03:51] <Flannel> Obviously I'm not clear on what it is
[03:52] <Gla> well the interface has not been launched just yet, though it's safe to say that it's a threaded conversation type model, though all as real-time as chat.  Twitter-esquer in nature.  I will be able to show you the interface within the month.
[03:54] <Flannel> How would that be different than a forum? (or isn't reddit something like that?)
[03:54] <Gla> the main goal is that we want end users to be able to 1) find their community as fast as possible, 2) interact with that community... and we want communities to be able to link to their real-time community.
[03:55] <Gla> well it's all very real-time, like chat.  the whole thing is real-time, no refreshing, you see responses in real-time, as they're threaded, moderation is real-time, etc
[03:55] <Flannel> So it's an incremental upgrade to a forum type thing
[03:55] <Gla> yea
[03:56] <Flannel> And this will be all through a website interface?
[03:56] <Gla> correct.
[03:57] <Flannel> You might try running this by the forum people then, they might be interested
[03:57] <Gla> ah, you guys are a different team?
[03:58] <Flannel> We deal with IRC, the forum people deal with the forum, yeah.
[03:58] <Gla> cool.
[03:58] <Gla> well to be honest, it's more like IRC then it is a forum.
[03:58] <Gla> as our focus is on real-time, moderated conversations.
[03:58] <Gla> though our conversations do persist, we focus on the real-time aspect.
[03:59] <Flannel> Forums are pretty realtime, save the page-refreshing aspect
[03:59] <Gla> well, these are very real-time, you can see when users are typing, the threaded models are more like small chats rather then big posts, I suppose you'll have to see it.
[04:02]  * MenZa thinks he would get a headache from seeing the activity on Ubuntu Forums in real-time.
[04:03] <Gla> well you'll have to see our interface, it's very very simple and has a lot of thought put into it at the same time.  Rest assured you'll be at ease.
[04:03] <Gla> though I suppose we can further our conversation once we have that open, it's simply good to see what your thoughts on this subject on at this time.
[04:06] <Gla> Ubuntu might be a big one to take off, as you guys have about 250 channel related to Ubuntu, where other communities have 2-3 :)
[04:06] <Gla> though it's good to see your aspect on this idea, etc
[06:20] <jussi01> Gla: so its something like google wave then?
[06:29]  * mneptok thinks "real time moderated web-based chat" sounds a lot like existing and functional web IRC clients
[06:33] <bazhang> I've seen this before. Like IRC, once removed. moderation is virtually not possible. Using Ajax iirc.
[06:35] <bazhang> It's basically a liveblog.
[06:43] <Gla> bazhang: that's not true at all
[06:43] <Gla> it's a bit better then Google Wave and has a community focus
[06:44] <Gla> Google Wave is actually licenesing some of the technology we built for this
[06:44] <bazhang> Gla, links?
[06:44] <Gla> it's not up yet.
[06:44] <bazhang> citation to the licensing?
[06:44] <Gla> we will have an interface in a month or so ready to go.
[06:45] <Gla> bazhang: I don't believe that's anywhere yet as that was pretty recent but let me see if I can find anything
[06:45] <Gla> any of you guys in the bay area? palo alto or stanford?
[06:47] <Gla> well, it's good to here you guys are atleast open to the concept.
[06:47] <Gla> hopefully you like what we have to show you guys.
[06:48] <Gla> :)
[06:49] <tsimpson> hopefully you'll open up the protocol(s) you create (nudge-nudge)
[06:49] <Gla> we will!
[06:49] <Gla> we're working on having our protocols work for ourselves first :)
[06:49] <tsimpson> of course, no point in having an open protocol if it doesn't work :)
[06:50] <Gla> it's been about 1 1/2 years in development, figuring out a lot of technical, navigational , and user interface difficulties
[06:51] <tsimpson> so, what exactly is the problem you are trying to solve here? ie: what's wrong with the current technologies, and what solutions did you come up with?
[06:51] <tsimpson> slightly random question, I know...
[06:52] <Gla> well there's a lot of problems with the real-time web, scaling it, etc
[06:52] <Gla> server and client-side
[06:52] <Gla> Meebo is pretty much on the fore-front of that, as well as Google, but there's few people outside of that who have nailed it
[06:53] <Gla> the problem we're solving is the problem that the expierence on IRC is amazing, though not available to everyone.  So we're creating a way for IRC to be more accessable, useable/user friendly
[06:54] <tsimpson> what do you mean IRC is not available to everyone?
[06:54] <mneptok> http://www.mibbit.com/chat/
[06:54] <tsimpson> http://webchat.freenode.net/
[06:54] <Gla> I mean, not many people really get the whole concept
[06:54] <Gla> most programmers don't use IRC.
[06:54] <Gla> they should.
[06:55] <tsimpson> ok
[06:55] <Gla> it's an amazing thing that they're missing out on, and many many people I've showed IRC to are blown away by what it has to offer.
[06:56] <Gla> from math people, to programmers, to entreprenuers, etc
[06:56] <mneptok> Gla: PDX?
[06:56] <Gla> it's an amazing place
[06:56] <Gla> sorry, I think I missed your last message, PDX?
[06:56] <mneptok> are you in PDX?
[06:56] <Gla> I don't know what PDX is
[06:56] <mneptok> Portland, Oregon
[06:57] <Gla> ah, I'm in Palo Alto, CA
[06:57] <Gla> driving distance :)
[06:57] <mneptok> weird. sbc does hostmasks oddly.
[06:57] <Gla> 10 hour drive it says...
[06:57] <Gla> are you in PDX?
[06:57]  * mneptok will be in SClara in April for the MySQL conf
[06:58] <mneptok> Albuquerque, NM
[06:58] <Gla> oh no kidding?
[06:58] <Gla> I was offered to speak at the MySQL conferences
[06:58] <mneptok> no kidding. on either score.
[06:58] <Gla> just talked with Marten the other day actually
[06:58] <mneptok> heh
[06:58] <mneptok> i live on the other side of that valley.
[06:58]  * mneptok works for Monty
[06:58] <Gla> no kidding?
[06:58] <mneptok> no kidding.
[06:59] <Gla> what's Monty up to now? he forked his own version right? Marissa or something.
[06:59] <mneptok> and FYI, Marten is in no position to invite anyone to speak :)
[06:59] <mneptok> MariaDB
[06:59] <tsimpson> you said it's going to be a bit better than Wave, and community focused, can you expand on that?
[06:59] <Gla> haha, that is true, though I simply thought I would say that for social-connections sake :)
[07:00] <Gla> tsimpson: you know, it might be best to simply come back when we have a demo and can invite you guys to use it
[07:00] <Gla> which should be in about 1 month
[07:01] <tsimpson> ok :) I'm just trying to imagine it
[07:01] <Gla> but basically Google Wave is very contacts based, where we're very community based.  We want to make the communities on our site reflective of who are actually in that community.  Think Facebook -> People, Our servicie -> Communities
[07:01] <Gla> Facebook makes sure the individual is credible, integral, searchable, etc
[07:02] <Gla> so with that said, in a months time I really hope you can try out what we have :)
[07:03] <tsimpson> sure, I'm always interested in new technologies
[07:03] <Gla> it's neat to see you guys are open to such things.  I was actually reading https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/392799 ( which I found only about an hour ago ) , and was very surprised
[07:04] <Gla> It's interesting to see how the internet moves.
[07:04] <Myrtti> bear in mind #ubuntu isn't aimed for devs tho
[07:06] <Gla> well our aim isn't really devs, it's mostly communities, no matter what they represent.
[07:09] <Gla> but really, this is great to get feedback from you guys.
[07:09] <Gla> really appreciate these conversations happening.
[07:09]  * mneptok represents straight-up old-skool style
[07:10] <mneptok> word.
[07:25] <Semitones> hello -- could you take a look at e1b6 in #ubuntu
[07:26] <Semitones> it might be nothing, but he's ignoring !ask, and pmming people
[07:32] <Gla> Guest10773: here?
[07:32] <Gla> Myrtti
[07:33] <Gla> hey Myrtti
[07:34] <Myrtti> i've got a stomach bug from hell, so I'm only marginally present
[07:35] <MenZa> :(
[07:35]  * MenZa hugs Myrtti gently.
[07:36] <Gla> pretty cool group of people we got in here
[07:36] <Myrtti> i've never had anything like this. apart from hangovers when younger
[07:36] <Gla> you guys are a pretty tightly knit group of ops eh?
[07:37] <Myrtti> atleast no headache tho, but i've been awake last night
[07:46] <MenZa> Gla: We do what we must -- because we can. ;)
[07:48] <Semitones> :)
[07:49] <elky> Gla, not really. there's vastly differing opinions in here. very vastly differing
[08:03] <Myrtti> Gla: anyway, feel free to come back when you've got the working thing to show us :-)
[08:04] <bazhang> Semitones, anything else you need help with?
[08:05] <Semitones> bazhang, the user I mentioned has left, so I don't think there's a problem anymore
[08:05] <bazhang> Semitones, thanks for the heads up
[08:05] <Semitones> sure thing -- he might have been asking for help, just not very well
[08:06] <Semitones> hard to say
[08:06] <Semitones> anyway, good night ops
[08:08] <Myrtti> Semitones: good night, bybye
[08:10] <dholbach> good morning
[08:11] <Tm_T> K'day
[08:13] <dholbach> hi tm_T
[09:22] <Gla> well I'll hang around
[09:22] <Gla> I like this channel
[09:22] <Gla> 56 is a good enough # I suppose
[09:23] <ikonia> Gla: please check the topic of the channel
[09:24] <ikonia> Gla: you may also get more millages if you mail the irc-coumunity-council with your request and propsal
[09:24] <Tm_T> ikonia: you meant irc-council ?
[09:24] <ikonia> Tm_T: yes
[09:27] <ikonia> Gla: do you know how to contact the irc-council (I can't see it mentioned in the logs)
[09:29] <Gla> ikonia: I thought you guys were the irc-council :)
[09:30] <Gla> if not, what are you guys? :P
[09:30] <Tm_T> Gla: topic actually answers to that pretty well (:
[09:30] <Gla> ah lol :)
[09:59] <ikonia> Gla: do you need anything else ?
[10:29] <ikonia> Gla: hello ?
[10:54] <Mamarok> maybe removing them is a good idea, this is not a zoo
[11:00] <Tm_T> them? (:
[11:26] <Mamarok> Gla: please do not idle here, see the channel topic
[11:39] <bazhang> manually removing a quiet is /mode #channel -q *!*@ip address ?
[11:47] <tsimpson> bazhang: yes, same as a ban
[11:48] <bazhang> tsimpson, thanks much
[11:51] <bazhang> * bazhang sets mode -q #ubuntu *!*@32.40.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es  that looks correct tsimpson ?
[11:51] <tsimpson> yep, that looks fine to me
[11:51] <bazhang> okay thanks again
[11:52] <Myrtti> Juian8: hi
[11:54] <Juian8> hi Myrtti, i can't talk at the moment but if i can help you please leave a message and i'll see it on scrollback.
[11:54] <Myrtti> lolwhat?
[11:57] <bazhang> he's been told over a dozen times to join #ubuntu-es , including a PM from myself
[12:11] <q0k> No, this is serious... I go to https://help.ubuntu.com/9.10/installation-guide/i386/index.html ; it says *Ubuntu Documentation > Ubuntu 9.10 > Ubuntu Installation Guide* at the top but *Next  Installing Ubuntu 9.04 “Jaunty Jackalope” For i386* at the bottom. This is official document. Please correct this.
[12:12] <bazhang> To report a problem, file a bug on the Ubuntu installation-guide package q0k
[12:13] <q0k> okay
[12:13] <bazhang> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/installation-guide/+filebug q0k
[12:13] <q0k> thanks
[12:14] <bazhang> q0k, the bottom of that document
[12:14] <bazhang> q0k, was there any other issue at present that needed resolution ?
[12:17] <q0k> No.
[12:18] <bazhang> q0k, then please dont idle here, thanks
[12:18] <q0k> "idle" verb is funny. Made me laugh. I am leaving. Thanks!
[12:18] <bazhang> np
[12:30] <bazhang> hyperstream wants clarification on why lmgfy is not a superb idea
[12:43] <bazhang> he wants the wiki to be very explicit why telling someone to just google it, or using lmgtfy is not a great solution.
[12:47] <ikonia> it's not exactly a nice way to interact with people
[12:47] <Pici> Because #ubuntu is a support channel.
[12:48] <bazhang> right, of course.
[12:48] <bazhang> he was vehement that his personal philosophy overrode the channel policy
[12:48] <bazhang> teach a man to fish etc
[12:48] <ikonia> then he can't stay in the channel
[12:48] <ikonia> he can actually google it for someone
[12:48] <ikonia> and give them the link and talk to them about it
[12:49] <Pici> Aye.
[12:49] <ikonia> I don't see a problem with that,
[12:49] <ikonia> that's actually helping someone
[12:49] <bazhang> he was PM'ed and had it explained to him. he was invited here to discuss and declined
[12:49] <ikonia> then he needs to stop doing it in the channel
[12:49] <bazhang> lmgtfy is rude and insulting
[12:49] <ikonia> it's a little sarcastic, there are just nicer ways to do it
[12:52] <Pici> I suggest google keywords as a last resort, or if thats how I got my answer and I want to teach them to fish.
[12:52] <Myrtti> there's no guarantees thst lmgtfy gives secure reliable results
[12:52] <Myrtti> so it canät be used
[12:53] <elky> forget if it works or not. it's rude.
[12:53] <bazhang> I wish idoru or one of the floodbots had an autokick mechanism built in when someone did that
[12:54] <Pici> Its on my hilight list
[12:54] <bazhang> heh
[12:54] <bazhang> sorry for the rant. his lengthy PM defending its use got me going.
[12:55] <elky> ubottu's already parsing the logs, im not sure it'd be a whole lot more for it to PM "HOW RUUUUDE!" to everyone who used it.
[12:55]  * elky pets the bot.
[12:55] <bazhang> Myrtti, thanks for the pastebin, btw; did my first manual remove of a quiet :)
[12:55] <elky> we know you're just a stupid bit of python, dear. Don't worry.
[12:56] <bazhang> hehe
[13:21]  * Pici blinks
[14:56] <Pici> Theres a lot of ban exceptions that can be cleared out, going to be a little noisy for a bit.
[14:58] <ikonia> I did a few yesterday
[14:59] <Pici> I have a list of 150 that have no match to anyone currently online.
[15:02] <ikonia> oooh, quite a few
[15:03] <Pici> I compared /mode +e to the output of /who #ubuntu
[15:05] <ikonia> good call
[15:08] <elky> Why are those building up like that?
[15:09] <Pici> I think that when a bot dies, it forgets about the ones that it had added.
[15:09] <elky> The bots should be able to do what you just did.. like hourly
[15:19] <Pici> and... done.
[15:20] <ikonia> nice job
[15:26] <ikonia> ????
[15:26] <ikonia> the flood bots claiming it warned me 4 times and one of them was for language ?/???
[15:27] <Pici> ikonia: Probably a troll who used !language against you after you telling them !language
[15:27] <ikonia> ah
[15:27] <ikonia> that's a big window then as it must have been hours since I got a hilght in there, if not days
[15:27] <ikonia> not to worry
[19:03] <guntbert> is the new process for becoming op already active? if yes - where can I see applications?
[19:06] <jussi01> guntbert: see -irc
[19:06] <guntbert> yes - sorry for cross-posting
[19:20] <DJones> Can somebody kick the spammer in #ubuntu - nick30a spamming a w3chat address
[19:20] <DJones> ignore that, they've just been klined
[20:06] <Pici> !b > ubollox
[20:25] <Myrtti> so, #ubuntu-app-devel, you say?
[20:25] <Tm_T> no comments from me yet
[20:26] <Tm_T> other than, nuts!
[20:26]  * Tm_T hides
[20:47] <MenZa> topyli: Might I be so lucky you could do me a small favour?
[20:47] <MenZa> topyli: That is, if you have bzr installed :)
[20:48] <topyli> i do
[20:48] <MenZa> topyli: Check out the Planet branch, update my feed URL?
[20:48] <MenZa> I don't have an ssh-key enabled system running at the moment. :\
[20:49] <MenZa> s/\/feed\/index.php\/feed\//
[20:49] <MenZa> (well.. on my entry :p)
[20:50] <topyli> sure
[20:50]  * topyli re-figures out how it's done
[20:51] <MenZa> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PlanetUbuntu#Adding%20Your%20Feed
[20:51] <MenZa> Cheers, topyli
[20:51] <topyli> oh i only got to the membershp wiki page so far :)
[20:53] <topyli> oh! i should have tried lernid now! :)
[20:55] <topyli> MenZa, i can't parse sed that complex. what's wrong with the url? :)
[20:56] <MenZa> topyli: well, change http://blog.lassehavelund.com/feed/ to http://blog.lassehavelund.com/index.php/feed/
[20:56] <MenZa> lighttpd doesn't like rewrites, and I'm buckling under it :P
[20:56] <topyli> ah ok
[20:57] <ikonia> lighthttpd doesn't do much but serve pages
[20:57] <topyli> MenZa, you also have a category defined there. we'll drop that?
[20:57] <MenZa> topyli: Oh, leave that actually
[20:58] <MenZa> Hmm
[20:58] <MenZa> One second
[20:58] <MenZa> Let me be absolutely sure
[20:58] <MenZa> http://blog.lassehavelund.com/index.php/category/ubuntu/feed/ <- topyli
[20:58] <topyli> right
[21:01] <topyli> ok, committed. enjoy the show while planets explode!
[21:44] <MenZa> \o/ topyli
[21:55] <Tm_T> nnnnnnnngh, once again broken motherboard decides I don't need ram