[00:03] it's too late to be doing all this [00:06] I don't think tidying up all my folders was a very good idae [00:06] idea* [00:28] lol [00:28] should i separate them [00:28] it's alright for you, it's not half past midnight where you are [00:28] is there a quick way to separate them? [00:28] humphreybc: probably [00:29] cut and paste? [00:29] heh okay [00:29] i'll attempt that :) [00:29] get some sleep! [00:29] good idea [00:44] dutchie: you still here? [02:57] hey godbyk i've created some new windows and things in quickshot and pushed. The cancel/close buttons actually work now too. [02:57] On an unrelated note, have you had a chance to look into including the revision number in the copyright page? [02:58] cool [02:58] ah, no, I haven't looked yet. [02:59] I'll give that a shot in a couple minutes, though. [03:01] sweet [03:07] I think I'm going to irk everyone soon by making them all upgrade to TeX Live 2009. :-) [03:21] It seems that bzr doesn't use the normal RCS keywords (like everyone else does). [03:22] so I'm doing it in a hackier way, but it'll work. [03:24] humphreybc: Revision info pushed. [03:27] godbyk: sweet [03:33] godbyk: are you planning on changing to tex live 2009? [03:33] perhaps we could look at creating a PPA for the team with everything packaged for ubuntu to make it easy for translators/contributors etc to download [03:33] It seems that the glossary stuff in 2007 is antiquated (and the packages we want to use aren't in 2007), so we may have to update to 2009 for that. [03:34] hmm [03:34] okay [03:34] And since we're using 2009 for the translated stuff, it means I can remove some of the special, just-for-English code that's there and then it's all using the same code regardless of language. [03:34] So It'll simplify things on that front, too. [03:35] humphreybc: There is a PPA, but I don't know if it's at all complete: http://www.tug.org/texlive/debian.html [03:40] okay [03:40] last updated 15/1/2010 [03:40] that's pretty good [03:41] "TeX Live 2009 is now in Debian/unstable, and should transit to testing in a few days (2010-01-15)." [03:41] oh no wait [03:41] that's not ubuntu :P [03:41] https://edge.launchpad.net/~aelmahmoudy/+archive/tl2009 [03:42] you've already got an install script right? just add a couple of lines that add that PPA and then install the necessary packages... presuming that PPA has everything we need. If you could have it echo some stuff like "Installing PPA..." "Downloading necessary packages..." then that would be cool too so everyone knows what's going on while they wait for 500mb to download... [03:43] yeah, I saw the PPA, but it seems like it has a lot fewer packages than what's there for 2007. [03:44] (There are many more than 12 texlive-* packages in the Karmic repositories.) [03:44] Now, with 2009, you get a tlmgr program that grabs the latest LaTeX packages from the CTAN site. [03:44] So maybe they're going to rely on that from here on instead of packaging the LaTeX packages themselves. [03:44] I don't know. [03:45] hmm oky [03:45] when do we have to switch to 2009? [03:46] We'll have to switch before we start doing the glossary stuff. [03:46] perhaps it's worth contacting "them" to find out what the best way is.... packaging ourselves in our own PPA (eek!) or using their tlmgr thing [03:46] You can switch now if you want. It doesn't hurt anything. [03:46] I don't have time to package all of that myself. [03:46] lol i know [03:46] It's pretty easy to install TL2009 using its own install scripts. [03:46] (See my previous email with the instructions.) [03:47] okay cool [03:47] any way we can make that super easy? [03:47] (i'm just thinking of people like wendy who haven't used ubuntu before etc) [03:47] I think the install-tl program is about as easy as it can be. [03:47] It autodetects everything. [03:47] oh gnarly [03:47] no problemo then [03:47] You just tell it 'go' and it goes. [03:47] that sounds swell [03:48] Why don't you give it a try and let me know what part of the instructions could be clearer or elaborated on? [03:48] sure [03:48] so just from that email? [03:49] yep [03:49] some keywords for me to find it in gmail? [03:49] haha [03:50] search for 'install-tl' [03:50] sweet [03:50] got it [03:51] how big is 2009? [03:52] (don't say "about 52 weeks!" [03:52] haha [03:53] It'll tell you on the menu how much it wants to download. [03:53] I think for me, it was a couple gigs, 'cause I installed absolutely everything. [03:53] oO [03:53] that would take forever on our connection [03:54] Hey, *you're* the one who wanted to switch ISPs! [03:55] lol well we'd be over our cap by now if i hadn't haha [03:55] You can skip installing the documentation. [03:55] That'll save a bit of space. [03:55] (Quite a bit, actually.) [03:55] okay, well, i'll see what speed it goes at and if it's less than 20KB/s I'm ringing the ISP [03:55] i'll make up some (half true) stuff about it's stopping me from doing my work [03:55] You *do* need to install the XeTeX/XeLaTeX engine, and you will need to install any languages you want to compile the translations for. [03:56] righto [03:58] what's this, it's going really fast! [03:58] like 700KB/s [03:58] WOW [03:58] I am amazed [04:01] * humphreybc wants a big ubuntu poster or flag for his wall [04:01] cool [04:42] typical, the wireless drops halfway thru latex install [04:43] looks like it's going to pick up where it left off though which is good [05:10] humphreybc: How goes the install? [05:10] oO it's done [05:10] haven't looked at it till just now [05:10] cool [05:10] so what's the command to make say, the spanish version? [05:12] godbyk: benjamin@benjamin-laptop:~/Manual/ubuntu-manual$ make [05:12] bzr version-info > revision.tex [05:12] pdflatex main [05:12] /bin/bash: pdflatex: command not found [05:12] make: *** [main.pdf] Error 127 [05:13] run the install-tl script again and make sure the 'create symlinks' option (last option listed) is checked. [05:13] (it shouldn't have to install or download anything again) [05:13] or, alternatively, add the bin dir to your PATH. [05:14] what do I put as the "new value for binary directory?" [05:17] leave the default, probably. [05:18] sweet [05:19] did that work? [05:19] if so, you can try running "make ubuntu-manual-es.pdf" for instance. [05:20] I think it has to download another 2GB [05:20] it did say "Disk space required: 2036mb" or something [05:20] and it's downloading stuff [05:21] really? hmm.. [05:21] yep [05:21] it should detect that you've already installed the stuff. [05:21] well, you could kill it, and make the symlinks yourself, I s'pose. [05:22] we should add a note to the instructions about telling the installer to create symlinks. [05:22] were there any other quirks or errors in the install instructions I wrote? [05:24] hmm i don't think so [05:24] i'll see if this works [05:26] What's it downloading? Everything? [05:28] appears that way [05:28] up to 280/2003 things, or mb, it doesn't say [05:29] it says "Installing" so maybe it's not downloading but just installing... although it does pause for a bit on larger things [05:31] it also has time/total - I guess the total is estimated. It's currently at 12:36/40:2 [05:31] 40:22* [05:31] Hmm.. weird. [05:31] where did it install it the first time round? [05:34] In /usr/local/texlive/2009/ probably [05:35] (that's the default location for all its files) [05:35] might've been able to create the symlinks via tlmgr, too. I'm not very familiar with it yet. [05:37] okay so there's 2.3GB in that directory [05:37] and where is it installing stuff to now? [05:38] heh i don't know what dutchie is doing with the planet but for some reason it never updates my feed automatically [05:38] same place, presumably. [05:45] that was odd, pidgin just randomly crashed for no reason [05:47] and it crashed again [05:50] nice [05:51] what irc client are you using? [05:52] pidgin [05:52] it usually works flawlessly [05:52] but maybe i upset it somehow [05:53] apparently texlive has 15 minutes left [05:54] ah, pidgin crashes randomly for me, too [05:55] could be worse i guess [05:59] could be using windows [06:43] godbyk: looks like i'm in business with 2009 [06:43] how do you make a translated one again? [06:43] lost the command after pidgin crashed [06:47] just run: make ubuntu-manual-LANG.pdf [06:47] where LANG is the same name as the .po file [06:47] (try es for spanish, for instance.) [06:57] benjamin@benjamin-laptop:~/Manual/ubuntu-manual$ make ubuntu-manual-es.pdf [06:57] po4a-translate --master-charset=utf8 -f latex -m main.tex -p po/es.po -l ubuntu-manual-es.tex -k 0 [06:57] po4a::tex: Can't read from file without having a filename [06:57] at /usr/bin/po4a-translate line 227 [06:57] make: *** [ubuntu-manual-es.tex] Error 9 [07:05] um.. [07:05] weird [07:05] hold on [07:08] nice [07:08] po4a doesn't like my revision stuff for some reason. [07:08] lemme see what it's problem is. [07:11] fixed it. [07:11] pushed. [07:11] now I have to fix some typos that others left behind. [07:11] (I swear no one tries to compile before they commit.) [07:14] humphreybc: try make ubuntu-manual-lt.pdf [07:14] es has typos [07:14] de has typos [07:14] (different typos, even.) [07:14] I'm going to write a script to attempt to build all of the translations and whatever and put 'em on my site. [07:14] will also post errors. [07:15] is there an API for launchpad to create bugs against our translated manual? [07:23] not sure [07:23] make ubuntu-manual-lt.pdf throws the same error, 9 [07:25] oh wait didn't see that you fixed it above [07:25] i'll try again [07:25] yeah, do a pull and try again [07:25] know of any open source build servers? [07:25] this seems to be more successful [07:25] I'm looking to set one up for our project. [07:25] not off hand nope [07:26] i get a couple of errors regarding "Gentium Book Basic" [07:26] and Aksharyogini [07:26] I guess i'm missing fonts [07:26] Install the ttf-sil-gentium and ttf-sil-gentium-basic packages. [07:26] right. [07:26] also Gautami [07:26] well, install ttf-* :-) [07:27] i think [07:27] haha okay [07:27] I'm going to restructure that bit of code, soon too. [07:27] so they're just in the default repos? [07:27] yeah, I think all the fonts I'm using so far, are. [07:27] well, maybe not Gautami. [07:27] I think that's a MS Windows font. [07:28] i'm getting loads of errors [07:28] ! \textfont 0 is undefined (character u). [07:28] \Url@FormatString ...\Url@String \UrlRight \m@th $ [07:28] but replace character u with every single character ever [07:28] so overall didn't build [07:29] i'll try installing fonts [07:29] yeah, install fonts first, then try it again. [07:30] The following packages have unmet dependencies: [07:30] ttf-kochi-gothic: Conflicts: ttf-kochi-gothic-naga10 [07:30] ttf-kochi-gothic-naga10: Conflicts: ttf-kochi-gothic [07:30] ttf-kochi-mincho: Conflicts: ttf-kochi-mincho-naga10 [07:30] ttf-kochi-mincho-naga10: Conflicts: ttf-kochi-mincho [07:30] good times all round haha [07:31] nice. [07:31] okay, well, look in the ubuntu-manual.cls file [07:31] there will be a bunch of \setmainfont lines with comments telling you where I got the fonts from. [07:33] hmm fun [07:33] so i need to go to all these sites and download them? [07:34] at the moment, yeah. [07:34] or you can wait 'til I restructure that bit.. then you'll only need those fonts if you want to compile those translations. [07:35] okay i'll install the ones i can find in the repos [07:35] and other than that just wait i think :) [07:36] pretty shattered, been up since about 7am today [07:36] my brain has stopped working properly [07:36] :) [07:36] nice [07:37] half past 8 and i'm almost falling asleep on my laptop! [07:37] a build server would be cool [07:37] if you need somewhere to host stuff my server has a bit of space [07:38] i'm getting another 500GB HDD for it next week [07:38] I've got (allegedly) unlimited space and bandwidth. [07:38] Though I've never pushed it. :-) [07:38] oh really? who are you with? [07:39] does that cost a lot per month? [07:39] Dreamhost: http://www.dreamhost.com/ [07:39] Costs ~$8 a month, I think. [07:40] wow [07:40] that's impressive [07:40] what's with the dude on the front page? http://www.dreamhost.com/hosting.html [07:41] does he actually run it!? [07:41] he must be like 13 [07:42] they do everything for so cheap... far out... the NZ costs are at least 1000x more expensive [07:42] heh [07:42] I think for $180 a month you get something like 5GB with 10GB of bandwidth or something [07:42] http://www.freeparking.co.nz/hosting [07:42] correction 250mb of space, 10GB bandwidth for $150 a year [07:42] oh it's a year [07:42] Here's what "unlimited" means: http://www.dreamhost.com/unlimited.html [07:43] that's not as bad but still... lol [07:43] i still want to know who the kid is [07:44] Stock photo, I'm guessing. [07:45] they're rather informal [07:45] "Actually, for you, my dear Legitimate Website Owner, it is unlimited." [07:45] "This whole page is just to announce to the <.1% of people who want to try and run free porn affiliate sites or anime video trading forums or host pirated rips of The Dark Knight on DreamHost that we're not having any." [07:45] lol [07:45] Oh, yeah, they have character! [07:46] they do [07:46] You should see the monthly newsletters. [07:46] haha [07:46] $8 is so cheap [07:46] how do they make their money? [07:46] Volume? [07:47] http://www.dreamhost.com/aboutus-profiles.html [07:47] they put photos up of them as a kid, what the hell lol [07:48] ha! nice. [07:48] So it *is* Mike S. [07:48] it is so weird but cool [07:49] Their blog has more cheekiness: http://blog.dreamhost.com/ [07:49] LOL read "What's the craziest thing you've ever seen while working at DreamHost?" [07:49] http://www.dreamhost.com/profile-dallask.html [07:50] http://www.dreamhost.com/profile-jeremyk.html [07:50] "What do you do at DreamHost?" [07:50] "I make music with the fans of the servers. Ok, not really. But I do try to bring all of the servers into harmony and keep them there!" [07:50] nice [07:52] lol [07:53] the ipad giveaway thing [07:53] "Okay, it’s going to be 20 of the $499 models (16G wifi-only) given away. Also note: if you don’t live in the US but give us a US mailing address when we contact you after you win, well, how are we going to know the difference?" [07:53] lol what: http://blog.dreamhost.com/2010/01/18/happy-new-year-zealand/ [07:53] oh cool they went to LCA [07:54] what an odd company [07:54] they're even stranger than google [07:55] i wonder how many customers they have [07:56] I'm not sure, but a ton. [07:57] LOL http://techcrunch.com/2008/01/15/dreamhost-overbills-customers-75-million-uses-homer-simpson-to-deliver-apology/ [07:59] i think that's how i'd run a business [07:59] i've always had this grand scheme of my first business modelled after google with cool furniture and crazy staff schemes [07:59] these guys are probably all just kids at heart, hence the child photos [08:01] but i love their laid back attitude about 7.5 million bucks. just like "whoops." [08:01] Yeah, they're pretty crazy. I like 'em. [08:02] http://www.dreamhost.com/limited-time-sale-going-on-now.html [08:02] too bad i don't need their services at the moment, otherwise i'd sign up lol [08:03] another great service I use is Weebly [08:03] they're really good guys [08:03] I use them for my website (no I didn't make it myself, but I could have) because it's reliable, fast, there is no limit on data or bandwidth and it's like $30 a year or something which is perfectly reasonable [08:03] plus it's sooo easy to maintain [08:04] and their customer support is excellent. I emailed them to suggest a feature and I got the CEO reply and say he'll work on in personally. We had a chat about Ubuntu too because he noticed my signature [08:05] Cool [08:06] I love IT... it's so... different [08:07] work from home/crazy companies/tonnes of creativity/usually friendly people [08:07] i could never see myself as a lawyer or accountant :O [08:10] Same here. I much prefer the relaxed environments. [08:10] I'm not a fan of wearing ties or suits. [08:12] yeah me neither [08:15] godbyk: what would be the easiest way for me to see the other windows in quickshot? [08:15] just to test out the UI [08:16] Hmm. Not sure. Can you call window.show() or something? [08:16] (where 'window' is the var that points to that window) [08:16] well i'm looking in the quickshot python file and i'm a bit lost [08:16] i don't know any python at all [08:17] i do know a bit of java but i've forgotten most of that [08:17] i just want glade to render a window for me, or to call it from the CLI? [08:18] I haven't done any GUI programming in Python, so I'm not sure. Sorry. [08:18] that's all good [08:26] I'm setting up buildbot. [08:37] oh yes? [08:37] slowly. :-) [08:37] nice, so it's a server based thing that takes latex imports and builds PDFs, right? [08:43] Well, the buildbot will build anything you tell it how to build. [08:43] in this case, I'll have it pull our manual out of bzr, then compile each translation, and generate a report about what worked, what failed, etc. [08:46] what theme was used to take the quickshot screen shot? [08:51] That's a question for humphreybc. [08:53] ubuntujenkins: it's this: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/02/x-ivi-human-deluxe-proposed-lucid-theme.html [08:53] but with lucidity borders [08:53] or homosapien borders... i'll check hold up [08:53] if you think the windows look nice, check out the menus and panel xD [08:54] Lucidity window borders [08:55] thanks i will, I am quite happy to test quickshot as and when you need more tester I have a very limited python knowledge so can't help on that front. [08:57] ubuntujenkins: sure, well at the moment there is nothing to test but soon there will be :D [08:58] I have been having a sneky peak at the bzr branch [08:59] It looks good [08:59] sure go for it, you want me to add you to the dev team? [09:00] * humphreybc buzz has actually been useful - had a person who knows python express interest in helping with quickshot!! [09:02] feel free to add me, I shall join the luanchpad group I am going to follow closely so that I can understand how to make a program [09:02] what's your launchpad username? [09:02] luke jennings [09:03] cool [09:03] just joined the quickshot lp page [09:03] yup i'm just loading the page to confirm you [09:03] launchpad is so slow [09:03] thanks :) [09:04] done [09:04] cool [09:05] Hey humphreybc [09:05] gidday! [09:05] I take it you're Benjamin? [09:05] yep [09:05] humphreybc is my nick for pretty much everything [09:05] I see. [09:05] ubuntu forums, wiki, launchpad, IRC, skype, msn, gmail etc etc [09:05] Anyway, I'm going to take a look at Quickshot later today [09:05] it's just my last name with my initials :) [09:06] awesome, sounds great! [09:06] I can't promise much though. I'm afraid I'm terribly rusty. [09:06] I created it using Quickly, so you'll have to install quickly first to run it - or you could probably just run the python file [09:06] My uni is forcing me to use horrible languages such as Java and C#, rather than Python. [09:06] hehe same at my uni [09:06] although I'm doing a python paper this semester [09:06] last year I did java [09:06] what year are you? [09:06] First year. [09:07] oh cool, i'm going to be second this year [09:07] I'm not of much use regarding python at the moment, but I am getting kinda good at Glade [09:07] I'm thinking about doing the same thing as you did, and switching over to comp sci instead. The program I'm currently in is a complete joke in many aspects. [09:08] Quickly uses glade and gtkbuilder for the interface, right? [09:08] I've never used Quickly before, but I do have some experience with Glade. [09:08] mmm, well for my uni, the software engineering major had a whole YEAR of commerce papers... dry, boring, commerce papers... so I changed to comp sci, got rid of the boringness, get to do more programming and chop a year off my degree [09:08] yep that's correct [09:08] quickly basically just creates a project off a template [09:08] this is the first time i've used it too, so I'm sort of walking blind if you will [09:09] heh... i haven't used quickly, python or glade before... yet the program uses all three tools. O.o [09:09] Alright. I'll give it a shot in a bit. I'm afraid my brain wonä [09:09] *won't be of much use until I've had a shower [09:09] so basically, if you want to take a look at it, what i'd quite like it to do just for this week is to get the "next" buttons working so they actually go to the next window [09:09] that way I can test out the other UI windows that I've created in glade [09:10] I'll have a look once I get back. [09:10] bbl [09:10] awesome [09:10] i may not be here when you get back, it's 10pm here and i have an exam tomorrow so should probably get some shut-eye [09:18] good luck with the exam [09:21] haha ubuntujenkins, i'll need it, i haven't been to any lectures or anything [09:21] i'll need a LOT of luck! [09:22] godbyk: sorry for late reply, that sounds awesome [09:22] have a LOT of luck [09:22] haha [09:22] TommyBrunn: let me know how you go with Quickshot, email me: humphreybc@gmail.com [09:23] TommyBrunn: I'll check my emails tomorrow sometime before I head away on holiday and answer any questions you have - other than that, just go nuts! The specification and workflow layout is on the wiki for Quickshot: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/quickshot [09:42] humphreybc: In case you're still here, maybe you should add me to the launchpad dev team. [09:45] yep i am here [09:45] what's your lp username? [09:45] omg dutchie [09:45] are you just waking up and i'm still here? [09:53] humphreybc: My lp username is reklamnevon, I believe. [09:53] cool [09:55] i think you're just tommy brunn [09:55] i added you [09:57] Oh yeah, would you look at that. Three new fancy icons on my profile. [09:58] If I go ahead and make something awesome of this, how would I commit those changes back to trunk? Do I make a new branch and then let you merge that into trunk, or do I just push it there myself? [10:02] nope just push to the main one [10:02]