| Lantizia | Hey, since Maemo is set to shut down because Nokia can no longer be arsed any more | 09:19 |
|---|---|---|
| Lantizia | and MeeGo is RPM based (and Qt too) and that doesn't please me at all | 09:19 |
| Lantizia | What are the odds of seeing nice debian-based Ubuntu Mobile (with hildon) on the N900 any time soon? | 09:19 |
| Lantizia | Need to know my N900 still has a future | 09:20 |
| persia | Very low, actually. | 09:21 |
| persia | There's a few obstacles, which I'll outline: | 09:21 |
| persia | 1) hildon in Ubuntu is just not going to work cleanly because of the nature of the patches to gtk, and the difficulties in integrating this in any sane way. | 09:22 |
| persia | 2) There's not enough information about the N900 hardware for anyone other than Nokia to distribute a kernel | 09:22 |
| Lantizia | Does Mer have it's own kernel - that is working on the N900 | 09:22 |
| persia | 3) Nobody seems to be working on trying to solve either of these problems for Ubuntu right now. | 09:22 |
| Lantizia | *Doesn't | 09:22 |
| Lantizia | So Hildon is doomed? Dead projecty? | 09:23 |
| persia | Mer is probably the best bet for what you seek, yes. I believe that Mer suggests using the HW vendor distributed kernels, but I haven't been following Mer for the past 9 months or so. | 09:23 |
| persia | I don't want to say it's doomed. There's interesting stuff there. | 09:23 |
| persia | It's just not sanely mergeable with Ubuntu. | 09:23 |
| persia | So if you want hildon, you're better off with Mer. | 09:24 |
| Lantizia | I really like Hildon, I don't want to go Qt based for my UI at least - and I certainly don't want to go RPM based | 09:24 |
| Lantizia | But you're already using Hildon with Ubuntu Mobile | 09:24 |
| persia | Well., kinda. It was hacky, and never quite worked. | 09:24 |
| persia | I don't think anyone seriously worked on it since the 9.04 release. | 09:25 |
| Lantizia | So with Hildon out of the picture for Ubuntu Mobile... is Ubuntu Mobile itself dead? | 09:25 |
| Lantizia | or is there a move to Qt planned or something else? | 09:25 |
| persia | Well, "Ubuntu Mobile" was never very well defined. | 09:26 |
| persia | It's had lots of guises over time. | 09:26 |
| persia | The "MID" flavour is not currently built. | 09:26 |
| persia | The "UMPC" flavour is similarly not currently built. | 09:27 |
| Lantizia | Well theres "moblin" and "intel" written all over it... now I know what moblin is (more by force since my Maemo is now a dead duck) I can't see how Ubuntu Mobile is related to moblin | 09:27 |
| persia | I think most of the interesting bits of both have even been removed. | 09:27 |
| Lantizia | Especially since moblin is RPM | 09:27 |
| persia | The Netbook flavour is now "Ubuntu Netbook Edition", and quite popular, but also maintained by the Desktop team. | 09:27 |
| persia | The "lubuntu" flavour (lxde) has had fits and starts, but doesn't seem to have gotten everything working yet: maybe for 10.10 | 09:28 |
| Lantizia | What devices ran (embedded devices) Ubuntu Mobile? | 09:28 |
| persia | The "liquid" flavour (Qt) is also having issues, and likely to be in better shape for 10.01 | 09:28 |
| Lantizia | lol yeah I tried Alpha 2 the other day - what a mess :) | 09:28 |
| persia | Well, the embedded project never really got much traction. There's people who use Ubuntu on embedded devices, but it's very much self-assembled. | 09:29 |
| persia | Most of the Mobile developers have taken the attitude that handhelds and similar are powerful enough to be treated as normal computers. | 09:30 |
| persia | and "what shipped with Ubuntu Mobile" is another interesting question :) | 09:30 |
| persia | One might say that a raft of netbooks did, but lots of that was done by other teams, so perhaps not precisely correct. | 09:31 |
| persia | SmartQ5, SmartQ7, Sheevaplug, Efika MX, etc. all ship with a vendor-modified Ubuntu, but I've not investigated precisely what that means. | 09:31 |
| persia | But more generally, just about anything with x86, powerpc, or arm processors (of sufficient revisions), and the ability to control the boot to handle install *can* run Ubuntu, if you're up for a bit of hacking. | 09:33 |
| persia | I know people have run it on all sorts of MIDs and UMPCs, and a variety of Atom and ARM development boards. | 09:33 |
| persia | Someone was trying to get it to work on the Wii, but I never heard if this was successful. | 09:34 |
| persia | (although the XBox and PS3 communities are active) | 09:34 |
| Lantizia | See I liked Maemo, so p*ssed off they're discontinuing it | 09:39 |
| persia | Then join Mer :) | 09:39 |
| Lantizia | exactly what I wanted it, hundreds of my regular apps available via APT... GTK based interface | 09:39 |
| persia | Seriously, that's the best place to work on a hildon-based mobile environment. | 09:39 |
| Lantizia | I get the feeling when Maemo goes... so will mer | 09:39 |
| persia | Depends on the number of hands who join in to keep it. | 09:40 |
| Lantizia | plus I don't know if Mer will work with the phone functions of the N900 | 09:40 |
| persia | I don't think anything will unless Nokia opens up more code. | 09:40 |
| persia | But seriously, if you want a project to continue, the best way to keep it is to jump in. | 09:40 |
| Lantizia | the dream of the 'open yet brand backed phone' hasn't quite come true | 09:40 |
| Lantizia | I'm considering selling my N900 since it's still in very good condition and only a month or so old | 09:41 |
| persia | Ubuntu UMPC was put together by two people over a four month period, and they stopped being interested, and stopped. Lots of people complained about it being "dropped", but two other people didn't step up to continue it. | 09:41 |
| Lantizia | No I can't do this again - if I want an OS on my phone... I want something where the people doing the work are getting paid | 09:42 |
| Lantizia | I got screwed over by the Zaurus before | 09:42 |
| Lantizia | although they did continue - just in the japanese market | 09:43 |
| persia | Not anymore. | 09:46 |
| persia | The 3200 was the last unit sold. | 09:46 |
| Lantizia | oh :( | 09:46 |
| persia | The Netwalker is the closest available (and ships with a modified Ubuntu 9.04). | 09:46 |
| Lantizia | oooh that looks nice | 09:47 |
| persia | That said, my Zauri still get some use. Just because the manufacturer doesn't make it anymore doesn't mean it's useles. | 09:47 |
| persia | I like it :) | 09:47 |
| Lantizia | i still have a collie with angstrom on it | 09:47 |
| persia | It's basically a laptop with a 4G SSD, except it fits in a pocket. | 09:47 |
| Lantizia | not a phone however :S | 09:48 |
| persia | Well no, but neither was the Zaurus. | 09:51 |
| persia | My personal preference is for a really small dumb phone with bluetooth coupled with a fairly powerful handheld. | 09:51 |
| Lantizia | I still have my E51 | 09:51 |
| Lantizia | before the N900 I was going to get an N810 and use it with the E51 | 09:51 |
| lool | E51 rocks, but it's a pre-iphone world phone | 09:51 |
| Lantizia | was waiting on a UK release of the N810 WiMax - but it never happened | 09:52 |
| lool | You have actual wimax coverage? | 09:52 |
| Lantizia | why does it matter it's pre-iphone? | 09:52 |
| lool | Lantizia: Well it's a perfect "old phone world" phone | 09:56 |
| lool | But it's not really on par with devices like N900, iPhone, or Android / Palm etc. phones | 09:56 |
| persia | This is a *good* thing. | 09:57 |
| persia | I want my phone to merely be a conduit. | 09:57 |
| lool | That's not what most people want though; I don't think such phones will exist much longer | 09:57 |
| persia | Yeah, and then I end up with a 200g phone :( | 09:58 |
| lool | I was really happy with my E51 though; it worked great even offline (in foreign countries notably) and the battery lasted forever | 09:58 |
| lool | It's funny it's mentionned here today, I just took it out yesterday to hand it to my neighbor who's phone was broken | 09:58 |
| lool | I told me for like 10 long minutes about all the cool features I used on it (or just tried out); of course it's full of proprietary software, but I kept enumerating the features it had, and I was amazed by the many things it did | 09:59 |
| lool | e.g. GPS with Nokia maps, how great the Google maps Symbian app was, Youtube/flash support, real player, remote erase, PDF/office viewer | 10:00 |
| Lantizia | I love my E51, dosbox, putty, google maps, good beer guide :), and of course full native SIP support | 10:24 |
| Lantizia | it wouldn't be so bad giving up the n900 for it | 10:24 |
| persia | Bah, features. | 10:25 |
| persia | Seriously, what does one need aside from the ability to act as a router to handle 3G/WiFi/WiMAX/etc. and maybe voice calls. | 10:26 |
| lool | persia: Well one thing I was missing was visio | 10:32 |
| lool | I also did use the SIP support, but it wasn't so great | 10:32 |
| persia | lool: That's why you carry a handheld :p | 10:32 |
| persia | asac: In the meeting there was some discussion of a potential MIR for chromium-browser. Has that been filed, or will it not be filed for lucid? | 14:15 |
| asac | persia: we (me and security team) want to have a meeting asap discuss whats going on | 14:15 |
| asac | how much effort it would require. if its doable etc. | 14:16 |
| persia | Would it be possible to file a tracking bug in the meantime, even if it gets marked wontfix for lucid? | 14:16 |
| asac | go ahead ;) | 14:16 |
| * persia looks up the new MIR process again | 14:17 | |
| rbelem | persia, i can help you with kde ftbfs | 14:18 |
| persia | rbelem: You can? My basic problem is that I can't run `sudo apt-get build-dep kdebindings` successfully, and I don't understand why. | 14:19 |
| rbelem | ehehhe | 14:19 |
| persia | So, I'd appreciate help, but this is an area I should be able to sort, and is almost entirely unrelated to the actual code involved :) | 14:19 |
| persia | By the way, how goes -default-settings? | 14:20 |
| rbelem | it is almost ready | 14:20 |
| ian_brasil | rbelem, lets finish that now then | 14:21 |
| ian_brasil | ? | 14:21 |
| rbelem | ok | 14:21 |
| rbelem | and i'm working on kdm now | 14:21 |
| rbelem | maybe it will become a fork | 14:21 |
| rbelem | :-) | 14:21 |
| persia | To me, -default-settings is more time-critical than kdm. kdm is likely to be out-of-archive, but we want some -default-settings in-archive. | 14:22 |
| rbelem | and later i will try to get it upstream | 14:22 |
| rbelem | ah cool | 14:22 |
| persia | Every patch is a fork: the key is to have them short-lived :) | 14:22 |
| rbelem | now i see | 14:22 |
| ian_brasil | rbelem, lets do default-settings soon | 14:22 |
| rbelem | ehehe | 14:22 |
| rbelem | ian_brasil, let's go | 14:23 |
| rbelem | persia, is there any other stuff that i can help? | 14:23 |
| persia | rbelem: Review https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/UbuntuLiquid/Seed and mark anything that belongs in a PPA ? That's about it, really. | 14:24 |
| rbelem | cool | 14:25 |
| persia | Without the interface, the rest of it is mostly about creating the infrastructure to be well-poised to deliver in lucid+1 | 14:25 |
| rbelem | :-) | 14:27 |
| persia | asac: Bug filed. I've assigned you as you say you're planning to have a meeting. Please reassign as appropriate once the bug can move forward. | 14:29 |
| asac | kk | 14:34 |
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