[00:01] <Alpha_Cluster> hey ubuntu is guna be using bing
[00:25] <Takyoji> Don't remind me. :P
[00:27] <Takyoji> I love watching IE usage go down
[00:28] <Alpha_Cluster> hey bing is better as long as your not looking for technical stuff
[00:29] <Takyoji> http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-ww-monthly-200807-201002
[00:30] <Alpha_Cluster> hey i think pretty much anyone who realy knows what they are doing likes seeing that
[00:30] <Alpha_Cluster> it looks like chrome has killed opera
[00:38] <Takyoji> Yea
[00:38] <Takyoji> although I think Opera still rules the mobile and embedded world of browsers
[00:43] <Alpha_Cluster> eh oprea mini 5 sucks
[00:43] <Alpha_Cluster> my BB native browser is better
[00:44] <Alpha_Cluster> watching a video on Windows Phone 7 >.<
[00:44] <Alpha_Cluster> it is guna give andriod a good challenge
[00:44] <Alpha_Cluster> http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/LauraFoy/First-Look-Windows-Phone-7-Series-Hands-on-Demo/
[00:45] <Alpha_Cluster> if your interested ^
[00:47] <Takyoji> I was implying in terms of usage
[00:48] <Alpha_Cluster> eh they claim they do but i dont think they really have as much share as they claim unless every symbion phone usses it
[00:48] <Takyoji> Advocating anything of MS on an Ubuntu channel? :P
[00:48] <Alpha_Cluster> im not advocating i am pointing out it exists
[00:49] <Alpha_Cluster> just as this is what the other guy is doing
[00:49] <Alpha_Cluster> you have you pay attantion to what all the companies are making
[00:50] <Takyoji> otherwise the map demo at TED seemed interesting
[00:54] <Takyoji> Just out of curiosity; in what instances would you consider Bing as better; in terms of results?
[00:54] <Alpha_Cluster> most normal results i feel it is genearlly better
[00:54] <Alpha_Cluster> mostly cause it seems better then google at coming up with special searchs
[00:55] <Takyoji> in terms of relevance, or?
[00:55] <Alpha_Cluster> well like if you search a moviename it will tell you where its playing
[00:55] <Alpha_Cluster> stuff like that
[00:55] <Alpha_Cluster> and give you ratings for it think also
[00:55] <Takyoji> ahh
[00:55] <Takyoji> You mean in terms of being more integrated, or?
[00:56] <Alpha_Cluster> http://www.bing.com/search?q=avatar&go=&form=QBLH&qs=n&sc=8-4
[00:56] <Alpha_Cluster> look at the results
[00:56] <Alpha_Cluster> it give me local theaters for the movie
[00:56] <Takyoji> ahh
[00:59] <Takyoji> Is Fennec still considered beta yet, or?
[00:59] <Alpha_Cluster> Fennec?
[00:59] <Takyoji> Mozilla's mobile web browser
[01:00] <Alpha_Cluster> oh i dont know >.<
[01:00] <Alpha_Cluster> i havent heard it in ages lol
[01:03] <Alpha_Cluster> can i use it on my blackberry?
[01:05] <Takyoji> "Sorry, no plans. Due to its Java-based operating system and the inability to build native components, Firefox is not compatible on the Blackberry OS"
[01:05] <Takyoji> Available for WinMo, Maemo, eventually for Android, no plans for Symbian, etc
[01:06] <Takyoji> according to the wiki
[01:06] <Alpha_Cluster> lol
[01:06] <Alpha_Cluster> yeah which is why nobody will use it >.<
[01:06] <Alpha_Cluster> maybe WinMo
[01:07] <Alpha_Cluster> but Andriod has Googles webkit based browser wich beats teh pants off gecko
[01:07] <Takyoji> Depends. But in ACID3 testing, yes
[01:08] <Alpha_Cluster> also it supports more html5 codecs
[01:08] <Takyoji> Well yea
[01:08] <Takyoji> Hopefully the buyout of On2 goes well, and hopefully they open the codec eventually
[01:09] <Alpha_Cluster> we can only hope
[01:10] <Takyoji> I have a feeling however that Theora might get abandoned as a result; if such were to occur
[01:11] <Alpha_Cluster> well h.264 is a better quality
[01:11] <Takyoji> That's supposedly a misconception, as that issue was resolved a while ago
[01:12] <Alpha_Cluster> really?
[01:12] <Alpha_Cluster> i remember theora is compteative at SD
[01:12] <Alpha_Cluster> but i believe it falls behind at HD compression
[01:12] <Takyoji> Source being?
[01:14] <Alpha_Cluster> i dont remember i havent looke dinto it for months
[01:15] <Takyoji> So you have a Blackberry by the way?
[01:15] <Takyoji> Done tethering with it at all, or?
[01:16] <Alpha_Cluster> Verizon doesnt like tehtering
[01:16] <Takyoji> Awkward; because the person I'm trying to help uses Verizon
[01:16] <Takyoji> and has a Blackberry Pearl
[01:17] <Alpha_Cluster> yeah they wan tyou to pay extra do do it
[01:18] <Takyoji> Well yea
[01:18] <Takyoji> I don't think I've heard of a provider that doesn't make you charge for tethering
[01:34] <Takyoji> So what does it take to get a package available by mainstream public in Ubuntu/Debian?
[01:37]  * Takyoji pokes mr_steve, since he happened to ask the question a few days ago
[01:53] <_diablo> Takyoji, loooong time, but we'll see
[01:53] <_diablo> debian is way longer than ubuntu btw
[01:53] <_diablo> mr_steve, would def know better
[01:55] <Takyoji> Hah, didn't know of that
[01:55] <Takyoji> Erm, I misread it at first
[01:55] <Takyoji> I figured Debian would be longer than Ubuntu
[01:58] <tonyyarusso> It doesn't take a long time, just work.
[02:02] <_diablo> yeah
[02:19] <katakaio> Hey team - I just sent a follow-up e-mail about Global Jam. Anyone interested in doing it for our March LoCo event? If so, I'd like to promote it amongst the MN computing groups that I have contacts with.
[02:19] <tonyyarusso> That'd be good, yeah.
[02:21] <Takyoji> anything in specific planned of what to do, or just "free-for-all"?
[02:21] <_diablo> katakaio, not me, sorry.
[02:21]  * _diablo is talentless
[02:22] <katakaio> There are five types of jams we could host.
[02:22] <katakaio> I think the Lucid testing one might draw the most interest (and be the most fun for us)
[02:22] <katakaio> But any of them would be great
[02:23] <katakaio> The link to the Jam description is here:
[02:23] <katakaio> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/1981
[02:24] <tonyyarusso> Oooh, Lucid testing would be a good idea.
[02:25] <katakaio> I've been doing it already on my sandbox machine, and it's a lot of fun.
[02:25] <_diablo> I'd help with that actually :)
[02:25] <katakaio> There ya go :)
[02:27] <katakaio> Sorry, that's six jams: bug, testing, upgrade, documentation, translations, packaging
[02:29] <ripps> I'd be glad to help with Packaging help, but if I attend a Jam, it'll probably be h00k's in Superior, WI
[02:29] <katakaio> What type of Jam is h00k hosting?
[02:30] <ripps> katakaio: he hasn't really decided. Best I've heard is documentation and upgrade testing
[02:30] <Takyoji> What would be the general workful of testing Lucid?
[02:31] <ripps> I offered my knowledge in Packaging/Bug filing, but if nobody cares to learn packaging, not much use
[02:34] <h00k> katakaio: we're not sure yet
[02:34] <katakaio> h00k: Oh - hi :)
[02:34] <h00k> hallow :)
[02:35] <ripps> If I act as a Packaging Tutor, do I have to come up some kind of lesson plan, or can I just assist people who are trying to teach themselves?
[02:36] <katakaio> ripps: The way I see it, it could go one of two ways
[02:36] <katakaio> It could be a very informative session for the loco members, or it could be more like an installfest
[02:37] <katakaio> tonyyarusso: What does the boss have to say?
[02:37] <tonyyarusso> katakaio: it sounds good to me, we just need to get the info put together, sent out, answer questions, and get as many people as possible involved in some way or another, regardless of previous experience level.
[02:39] <katakaio> tonyyarusso: Unfortunately, my work schedule changed and has me booked during our loco meetings on Mondays - hence my absence :(
[02:39] <katakaio> But I'm still working for Ubuntu . . .
[02:40] <Takyoji> anyway; as for Lucid, what would be tested?
[02:41] <ripps> Takyoji: I'm sure the ubuntu-qa guys can give a list of things to try out
[02:41] <Takyoji> and then just bug reporting from there, or?
[02:43] <ripps> That's the basics of it. Use software, find bug, file bug. That's it. If you want to the extra leg work, you can than figure out what's causing the bug and attempt to make a patch or debdiff fixing said bug.
[02:43] <katakaio> Takyoji: Yeah. Apport does automatic bug filing for crashes
[02:43] <katakaio> It's a good intro to Launchpad bug filing as well
[02:43] <Takyoji> and if the application doesn't crash?
[02:43] <ripps> `ubuntu-bug <package name>`
[02:43] <Takyoji> I've done a bug report through Apport I believe
[02:43] <Takyoji> just once or twice though
[02:44] <katakaio> Takyoji: Then you can submit the bug manually through Launchpad, which loco members can help with
[02:44] <Takyoji> and so it's intended to be done in a VM, or?
[02:44] <Takyoji> Otherwise I have Lucid installed locally on my system as well
[02:44] <ripps> ubuntu-bug creates a profile and uploads it to launchpad through apport. Use it it for all bug filing as it bundles logs need to help diagnose the software.
[02:44] <katakaio> I do it on a sandbox machine myself, or on a separate hard drive
[02:45] <ripps> Takyoji: you can use testdrive to run lucid in a VM, make sure you pc is capable of running a VM first.
[02:45] <katakaio> brb, moving from coffeeshop to home
[02:45] <Takyoji> I use VirtualBox
[02:46] <ripps> I'm using lucid right now as my main OS, and it actually works pretty well.
[02:46] <Takyoji> The only things I have problems with is GDM and minor graphical issues
[02:47] <ripps> Takyoji: look for gdm2setup to configure and customize the new gdm. Not as customizable as old gdm, but this allows you change the gdm gtk theme.
[02:48] <Takyoji> the other thing I had issues with was trying to install my NVidia driver
[02:48] <Takyoji> it just couldn't find a needed package or something
[02:49] <ripps> Takyoji: nvidia-current (at least it is in lucid)
[02:50] <ripps> Although, if you try out lucid, I'd prefer if you'd add the nouveou-testing ppa and try testing that driver out, as that's something we users can help debug.
[03:20] <Takyoji> Booting into Lucid on my desktop now
[03:24] <Takyoji> Supposedly nvidia_current is installed
[03:26] <Takyoji> How would I be able to debug the GDM issue to a reasonable extent?
[03:26]  * Takyoji pokes ripps
[03:27] <Takyoji> Woo, some packages failed to download an update
[03:28] <Takyoji> or the inverse
[03:32] <Takyoji> Apparently the packages are not found...
[03:32] <Takyoji> empathy, empathy-common, gnome-orca, byobu, tomboy, nautilus-sendto-empathy, nvidia-96-modaliases, nvidia-173-modaliases, nvidia-current-modaliases
[03:38]  * Takyoji pokes at the dead channel
[03:41] <_diablo> hello
[03:41] <_diablo> Takyoji, sorry, I didn't know :(
[03:43] <Takyoji> xserver-xorg-core supposedly crashed (which is probably the GDM issue) although Apport implies "THe program failed on an assertion failure, but the message could not be retrieved. Apport does not support reporting these crashes."
[03:55] <tonyyarusso> anybody good with CSS?
[03:58] <Takyoji> Yesss
[03:58] <Takyoji> I have to admit; it's a bit awkward for nautilus to have tabs on the bottom..
[04:03] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: http://shta.tonyyarusso.com/
[04:03] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: I want the whitespace between and below the menu items to go away.
[04:04] <tonyyarusso> It's supposed to look like http://shta.org/
[04:07] <Takyoji> Do you have the same CSS as the original, or?
[04:08] <tonyyarusso> not quite
[04:09] <tonyyarusso> Their site is non-validating hand-crafted craptastic HTML; mine is a Drupal 6 theme.
[04:09] <Takyoji> ahh
[04:10] <Takyoji> I'd probably have to poke at it tomorrow; the workstation I usually have all my tools on is running Lucid right now and I'm poking at a few things
[04:11] <tonyyarusso> bother
[04:13] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: I have a pretty good idea what's happening at least - it's sizing the element to fit the text rather than following my defined sizes.
[04:13] <Takyoji> The link with have to have "display: block" and most likely "float: left" or "float: right"
[04:14] <Takyoji> If you do "display: inline", it won't have padding nor margin
[04:16] <tonyyarusso> oh
[04:16] <tonyyarusso> why?
[04:16] <tonyyarusso> oooh, shiny
[04:17] <Takyoji> It's just the stupid that occurs with it
[04:17] <Takyoji> "display: block" makes sure the element is on it's own line.
[04:18] <Takyoji> "display: inline" lets it be inline, and have no automatic linebreaks before/after the element
[04:18] <Takyoji> Thus elements can be side-by-side.
[04:19] <Takyoji> However it doesn't ever seem to obey sizing/spacing when shown as an inline element
[04:19] <Takyoji> Thus you have to make the elements float left/right, and then clear below it (if I remember correct), so that the elements don't cover anything after it, like it isn't contained in it's parent element
[04:21] <tonyyarusso> Could I use a z-index to make an element's text appear BEHIND the background-image of the same element?
[04:23] <Takyoji> You can't have it go behind the background-image
[04:23] <Takyoji> z-index is for the whole element
[04:23] <tonyyarusso> bummer
[04:23] <Takyoji> not just text
[04:24] <Takyoji> Usually you either: use images and have the text in the 'alt' text attribute of the image tag; or, have the image in the background, but make the foreground text invisible.
[04:24]  * tonyyarusso is getting kind of tired of trying to fix other people's atrocious web sites - why couldn't they just do it right the first time?!?
[04:24] <tonyyarusso> Foreground text invisible - how?
[04:24] <tonyyarusso> is invisible a "color"?
[04:24] <kermit> fgcolor and no bgcolor
[04:24] <Takyoji> No
[04:24] <kermit> and they assumed a different default bgcolor
[04:25] <kermit> i always had that problem before compiz negative mode
[04:26] <Takyoji> visibility: hidden
[04:26] <Takyoji> http://w3schools.com/css/pr_class_visibility.asp
[04:27] <tonyyarusso> hmmm
[05:29] <Takyoji> If only I could get bonus points for being an active member on the IRC. :P
[05:30] <tonyyarusso> for what, class?
[05:31] <kermit> i don't know how to get any points without irc
[05:31] <kermit> i'm honestry trying to figure it out though
[05:31] <kermit> er, honestly
[05:34] <Takyoji> for this channel. :P
[16:28] <mr_steve> _diablo, how's it going?
[16:28] <_diablo> mr_steve, yo, not bad here
[16:29] <_diablo> on ubuntu again lol
[16:29] <mr_steve> glad to hear it
[16:29] <mr_steve> heh, on both counts
[16:29] <_diablo> mr_steve, how goes the packaging for cnetworkmanager?
[16:29] <mr_steve> pending review on REVU
[16:30] <mr_steve> I gotta poke the MOTUs again and see if I can get it in before feature freeze, if it's not too late already
[16:31] <mr_steve> If you're itching to use it I can fix up the package in my PPA
[16:38] <mr_steve> _diablo, what's your friday look like this week?
[16:38] <_diablo> mr_steve, ohhh! I am itching indeed!
[16:39] <_diablo> my friday is clear this week
[16:39] <_diablo> i'm up for it if you are. any news on location?
[16:39] <mr_steve> I got nothin'
[16:39] <mr_steve> I didn't get a chance to scout around over there
[16:41] <mr_steve> I'm going to see if I can find something ahead of time, but otherwise I'll just have to pick another place from google maps to try out
[16:42] <mr_steve> Or give Ambrosia Coffee my spare wireless router ;)
[17:02] <_diablo> lol, we can try going there with a backtrack disc and see if we can fix it for them...
[21:56] <Takyoji> Ooo, the Ubuntu Software Centre in Lucid is shinier
[22:24] <Takyoji> seems to be a few visual tweaks here and there in Lucid
[23:54] <mr_steve> Yey finally have my NFS mounts working again. I forgot how much fun setting up NFSv4 with Kerberos is
[23:55] <Takyoji> heh woo
[23:55] <Takyoji> and SD cards still mount as read-only, even in Lucid..
[23:56] <mr_steve> That's odd. I just popped in an SD card and copied a bunch of files to it last night
[23:57] <Takyoji> On some systems it works fine; others it doesn't. Some that it worked fine on, no longer do SD cards properly.
[23:58] <Takyoji> Works on this laptop; doesn't work on the 2 desktops in this household.
[23:59] <mr_steve> That is definitely weird. I haven't had any problems with SD cards at all