[00:14] rickspencer3, did you have your meeting with yingying? [00:15] bryceh, it's in 15 minutes [00:15] 'sup? [00:15] ah great, let me know if you need anything more [00:16] will do [00:16] I sent your bug list [00:16] otherwise, I guess we need to triage the 400+ bugs and see what's in there [00:41] TheMuso, hey [00:41] rickspencer3: yo [00:42] TheMuso, so kernel freeze is approaching [00:42] is pulse and the kernel in sync atm? [00:42] rickspencer3: right [00:42] yes [00:42] alsa userspace and kernelspace actually [00:42] as in sync as they can be [00:42] TheMuso, fair enough [06:58] Good morning [06:59] didrocks: indeed, I'll run a test with that [07:02] Good afternoon :) [07:03] hey RAOF, how are you? [07:05] Pretty good. Had a fun time in Tasmania over the weekend; we've put in an offer for a very nice house in West Hobart that we inspected. [07:05] Now I'm seeing if I can get a package for Docky build & reviewed before FF :) [07:09] Looking forward to talking with didrocks and seb. [07:09] hello, good morning [07:10] RAOF: oh, you'll move soon? [07:11] pitti: Such is the hope. And, well, “soon” in real estate is about 2 months :) [07:13] didrocks: ok, so you broke cheese? [07:26] didrocks: hm, I actually can't replicate the problem in a chroot; no idea what the live system builders are complaining about :( [07:26] and why it only affects the netbook CDs, not the ubuntu CDs [07:27] oh, cheese isn't on the ubuntu CDs? why not.. [07:47] pitti: cheese is broken? I didn't receive a FTBFS IIRC [07:47] morning [07:47] didrocks: bonjour [07:47] didrocks: I actually don't know why the livefs build fell over twice in a row :( [07:47] http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/livefs-build-logs/lucid/ubuntu-netbook/latest/livecd-20100217-i386.out [07:48] The following packages have unmet dependencies: [07:48] cheese: Depends: cheese-common but it is not installable [07:48] libcheese-gtk17: Depends: cheese-common but it is not installable [07:48] hum, strange [07:48] but it does work in an i386 lucid chroot with only main [07:48] right, I split the package [07:49] ah, -common is new? [07:49] yes, libcheese-gtk17 too [07:49] rmadison tells me they are in main both [07:49] ah, perhaps they were stuck in NEW until tonight [07:50] pitti: is there another way than ramdison? [07:50] rmadison* [07:50] that's fine [07:50] I'll just trigger a rebuild then [07:51] pitti: ok, you think cheese-common wasn't newed when the cd was building? [07:51] hey didrocks pitti [07:51] perhaps [07:51] I can't think of another explanatino [07:51] salut seb128 [07:51] didrocks: however, no [07:51] didrocks: then cheese wouldn't have been on that new version either [07:51] bonjour seb128 [07:52] hum [07:52] meh [07:52] g-p-m crashes on startup [07:52] indicator patch? [07:55] pitti, that didn't get uploaded? [07:55] it did [07:55] 2.29.2-0ubuntu4 [07:56] meh [07:56] it crashes, and if you start it manually, it complains about a nonexisting property which looks like garbage [07:57] * pitti files crash report [07:58] ok, already filed, bug 523041 [07:58] Bug 523041 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/523041 is private [08:06] good morning [08:32] seb128, didrocks: Thanks for the talk. [08:32] RAOF: thanks to you :) [08:33] RAOF, thank you ;-) [08:33] * RAOF goes to wrap some chicken breast in pancetta and call it dinner. [08:34] * seb128 goes to get some coffee [08:37] didrocks, pitti: not sure if you have seen yesterday but gnome-keyring 2.29 is in the ubuntu-desktop ppa now... [08:38] * didrocks goes to get some coffee too [08:38] out of mission control not working after autologin (which might be fixed with a bugzilla change) it seems to work fine there [08:38] seb128: I'll give it a try [08:38] you need to restart your session after upgrade though [08:38] ok [08:46] pitti: ping me when you will be able to try a bootchart with the new "cached and serialized wallpaper". I'll work on ubiquity hook now. Also, we need to take a decision for the upgrade thing :) [08:46] didrocks: just finished seed mangling for getting the CDs back in size [08:46] I'll do the bootcharting now [08:47] pitti: shall we discuss that next week so that I can deal with all the CD bits? Just need a proper and quick introduction as each time we tried to discuss about it, we weren't able to finish :) [08:48] didrocks: oh, it was the ubuntu CDs being overflown [08:48] and I really have no idea about the cheese thing [08:48] oh ok, you are in charge of alpha3 ? [08:48] I'll just try another build and hope [08:49] didrocks: not primarily, but I still like our desktop CDs to work :) [08:49] (yes, crossing finger is always the highly and best scientific way to get things work ;)) [08:50] then again, with the current g-p-m breakage and the devkit-power/upower duplicating a new image won't be much better anyway [08:50] and speech-dispatcher breaks CD images as well (new package is stuck in the build queue) [08:51] seb128: I just had a look at the g-p-m indicator patch; it's veeeery brittle (not having _any_ checks for NULL/failure, or fallbacks to upstream behaviour) [08:51] seb128: I'm that --><-- close to backing it out to restore g-p-m.. [08:52] pitti, we should land changes if we don't feel they are quality ready [08:52] +not [08:53] pitti, so +1 from me to backing it out [08:53] I commented on the LP and upstream bugs where the patch was submitted [09:02] seb128: done [09:03] pitti, danke [09:03] chrisccoulson, hey [09:03] hey seb128 [09:03] how are you? [09:03] i see gpm is broken this morning [09:04] chrisccoulson: right, bug 523041; just reverted the patch [09:04] Launchpad bug 523041 in udev "gnome-power-manager crashed with signal 5 in dbus_g_connection_register_g_object()" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/523041 [09:04] (or, rather, disabled the configure option) [09:04] pitti - thanks [09:04] i wish i'd reviewed this now [09:04] chrisccoulson, got a cold but good otherwise, you? [09:04] oops, /me assigns back to g-p-m [09:04] seb128 - i'm not too bad. i have a bit of a headache this morning though [09:04] i hope your cold doesn't get too bad [09:05] get some coffee? [09:05] pitti - yeah, the glib warning from gpm is bogus [09:05] it's ok for now, just nose blocked on one side [09:05] it would suggest an issue with my notify patch, but i already know that works ;) [09:05] chrisccoulson, did you have a good night? is your gf better now? [09:05] seb128 - yeah, she's much better now thanks [09:06] good ;-) [09:06] * seb128 starts to think we need extra reviews for indicator changes [09:07] yeah, i think so too [09:09] didrocks: ok, so I downgraded gpm on my mini to get a crash-free startup (apport really spoils bootcharts) [09:09] didrocks: I'll now do three charts with the current cache, and three charts with your new packages, and compare [09:12] pitti: sweet, thanks [09:14] chrisccoulson, do you still want to sign on for reviewing this gpm change when you have a free slot? [09:14] chrisccoulson, if so please do that ;-) [09:14] seb128 - yeah, i can take a look through that [09:14] chrisccoulson: nevermind reviewing the current patch (I followed up upstream), it needs lots of change/love first [09:16] chrisccoulson: can you update liboobs to 2.29.91? there is a fix for bug 522612 [09:16] Launchpad bug 522612 in liboobs "users-admin crashed with SIGSEGV in oobs_users_config_add_user()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522612 [09:16] kklimonda: yeah, but it will have to wait until this evening [09:16] please assign the bug to me [09:16] ok [09:21] hmm... what is the official status of users with dot in their name? I can't create one using users-admin [09:34] seb128: any ideas on bug #522969 ? Shall I assign it to gnome menu? [09:34] Launchpad bug 522969 in jockey "Jockey doesn't add nvidia-xconfig (Nvidia X Server Settings) to menu after installing nvidia driver until you re-login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522969 [09:40] didrocks: measuring and evaluation complete, I followed up on https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=608419 [09:40] Gnome bug 608419 in libgnome-desktop "Caching wallpaper resize to avoid some CPU cycle at startup" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed] [09:41] pitti: right, that was my fear [09:41] sorry :/ [09:42] not your fault :) [09:42] at least, I know know how to deserialize an image and save it to the disk ;) [09:43] didrocks: so I think the patch should at least handle the case of an absent cache image more explicitly (the same confusion that I had also occurred with mclasen apparenlty) [09:43] so, I guess, I'll revert the patch, just do a little cleanage (factor the function) and release the new version with optimized quality for jpeg? [09:43] didrocks: the multi-monitor case seemed worth discussing still [09:43] pitti: the first version had that and vuntz changed it, but I can came it back [09:44] pitti: well, it needs *tests* to know what happened exactly on those [09:44] didrocks: so it sohuld perhaps allow more than one cache file, for different resolutions [09:44] it will always be the same image file name, but with potentially different resolutiosn, right? [09:44] pitti: one for each (resolution x transformation type)? [09:44] that can be easy [09:44] ah, right [09:45] didrocks: I guess the function is just called several times for multi-monitor? [09:45] didrocks: so I guess it just shouldn't throw away all other cached images, just the ones with differnet file names? [09:46] that's my guess too. But as for thumbnail there is nothing in the api that enables us to know what monitors is targeted. So, yes, saving one image for each resolution x transformation type seems to be in the spirit [09:46] didrocks: so perhaps the ones which do not fnmatch("*_*_*_" + filename + ".cache")? [09:46] pitti: hum, I would rather erase all others file with the same resolution x transformation [09:47] didrocks: right, I think it makes sense to keep the 300x300 size limit; in fact, I think with .jpg caches it makes sense to ignore all images which are below the screen size resolution [09:47] "if" one day, more than one image is allowed, we won't have to change this [09:47] didrocks: that should work as well indeed [09:47] pitti: if we rename all fnmatch("*_*_*_" + filename + ".cache"), it won't (more than one filename) [09:48] if we just remove the same (*_*_*_) (resolution and transformation), we save this case [09:50] didrocks: but then you would potentially kill caches which you need again in the next call (for a monitor with a differnet resolution) [09:50] ah, nevermind [09:50] I was confused [09:50] we will just keep it, even if it's not used [09:50] didrocks: so, on a cache hit you just use that and do no further changes (to avoid always stat()ing the cache dir) [09:51] pitti: right [09:51] and on a cache miss you do the cleanup and remove all stretch_x_y_* where * is not the current filename [09:51] ? [09:52] didrocks: upgrade> so, we ruled out postinst and we ruled out update-manager; let's ignore the upgrade caching for now [09:52] that will work with current implementation, but if one day there is the support for more than one wallpaper filename on each monitor: [09:53] didrocks: ^ then we have to update the patch indeed [09:53] on cache miss, we can clean all corresponding (stretch_x_y) [09:53] where stretch_x_y is your current stretch and resolution [09:53] oh, right the "where * is not the current filename" is irrelevant; we already established a cache miss [09:54] so your's is simpler and correct [09:54] and will support having multiple wallpaper if done one day :) [09:54] we will just keep on resolution/monitor size change uneeded cache, but well… [09:54] I don't think we will have billions of them [09:55] I don't understand? [09:55] let's say you have zoom_1024x768_foo.ppng as a cache [09:56] you change your monitor resolution to 1280x1024 [09:56] the cache will create a new zoom_1280_1024_foo.png and will keep the old one [09:57] even if zoom_1024x768_foo.png won't be used [09:57] ah, right [09:57] shouldn't hurt that much [09:57] so, we will get some cache ununsed cache file, but as we will just have one for each (transformation x resolution), we won't have a lot of them [09:57] right [09:58] ok, I'll work on the install part too on ubiquity, shouldn't be complicated (just copy the cache file from the live user wallpaper cache directory if there weren't an existing $HOME) [10:06] seb128: I've tested upgrading gnome-keyring. So, I can ssh to a box and I get the prompt. I'm surprised however that I can still login into empathy and mission-control is running as you told it was broken. Can I test any other thing covered by gnome-keyring? [10:07] didrocks, it's broken after autologin there, did you use the gdm greeter? [10:07] oh autologin, no, didn't try that [10:07] didrocks, you can test seahorse (the graphical ui) [10:08] seb128: any ideas on bug #522969 ? Shall I assign it to gnome menu? [10:08] Launchpad bug 522969 in jockey "Jockey doesn't add nvidia-xconfig (Nvidia X Server Settings) to menu after installing nvidia driver until you re-login" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/522969 [10:08] tseliot, oh sorry I forgot to reply to that [10:09] tseliot, I would be surprised if there is not already some opens on gnome-panel or gnome-menus [10:09] hi seb128! It would be good to push latest papyon to Lucid ( https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/papyon/+bug/520699 ) it fixes some issues including this very popular crash in butterfly: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/pymsn/+bug/401028 [10:09] Ubuntu bug 520699 in papyon "Please merge papyon (0.4.4-1) from debian testing" [Wishlist,New] [10:09] np, I thought you missed it because of some irc weirdness ;) [10:09] tseliot, I start thinking it's a pitti's bug [10:09] cassidy, yeah, it's on my todolist already, thanks for pointing it though ;-) [10:09] good good :) [10:09] seb128: but Jockey just installs those packages [10:10] tseliot, I think it's due to the gnome-menus cache changes pitti did this cycle [10:10] tseliot, reassign to gnome-menus for now [10:10] oh [10:10] ok, thanks [10:10] np [10:10] seb128: ok, seahorse is working, I can see my keyring. I can't try autologin on that box as I have an encrypted home. I'll try on my crash box later if you need confirmation that it's failing :) [10:11] didrocks, not that's ok, having confirmation it doesn't break anything you do daily on your box is good enough [10:11] seb128, except that most of the components are up to date : http://people.collabora.co.uk/~cassidy/tp-versions.html [10:11] cassidy, excellent! [10:12] cassidy, should we still stay on gabble 0.8 btw? [10:12] seb128, that's the safer bet for now. We are very keen on polishing it as that's the version used on the N900 [10:12] and 0.9.x still have few regressions [10:12] works for me [10:12] thanks [10:13] I think there is a plan to branch to 0.10 soon [10:13] (stable branch) [10:13] well let's revisit that when 0.10 is there [10:13] agreed [10:13] seb128, tseliot: hm? [10:13] * pitti looks at #522969 [10:14] pitti, we get an higher number of "menus don't get updated when a .desktop is installed" than usual this cycle [10:14] pitti, gnome-menus didn't change much out of your chaching change so my first bet would be to start looking there for a potential breakage [10:14] seb128: right, that's very proable [10:15] * pitti keeps the tab to look into this later on [10:20] pitti, I just sponsored libubuntuone now, can you NEW review when you have some time? [10:20] pitti, some known issue: COPYING and COPYING.GPL in the diff.gz, we will get that fixed with next tarball but since we are in a hury for ff now... [10:21] pitti, also there is a non versioned file installed in the library binary, that will be fixed too but likely after ff now [10:22] I also need to talk to kenvandine about translations they are not installed now [10:27] ooh, i should have a new desk arrive at home today [10:27] so i can finally try my new monitor and docking station :) [10:28] chrisccoulson, getting ready to be in a comfortable work environment there? ;-) [10:28] seb128 - yeah, i've got a little bit of rearranging to do [10:28] you don't have a desk for the computer right now? [10:28] or you just get a better one? === issyl0_ is now known as issyl0 [10:32] seb128 - i've got a desk already, but it has my desktop on [10:32] so i got another one to put the laptop on [10:32] ah ok [10:33] hopefully there will still be space for my coffee machine ;) [10:35] * didrocks thinks chrisccoulson is a good candidate for testing wallpaper caching on multiple monitors :) [10:36] didrocks - yeah, i can do that [10:36] when i finally get everything set up ;) [10:36] do you not have multiple screens? [10:36] chrisccoulson: not, my main laptop is 17', so, it's ok to work with that [10:36] didrocks, you don't have any computer screen? [10:36] no desktop box? [10:37] ah, yeah that's quite a good size [10:37] 17" is small for daily work [10:37] my laptop has a 15" screen, which is a bit too small for daily use [10:37] seb128: I have one, but no screen anymore. It was a 19' monitor, not LCD. To much space taken [10:37] * seb128 wouldn't work on <22" anymore [10:37] too* [10:38] seb128 - i've got a 22" screen for my desktop, but the extra monitor for my laptop is 20" [10:38] you need to be nice to your eyes if you spend 10 hours in front of the computer [10:38] i hope that's not too small ;) [10:38] my 20" monitor has the same resolution as the 22" [10:38] and watching a laptop 15" or 17" screen is not good enough for me ;-) [10:39] chrisccoulson, yeah, I guess 20" is ok too ;-) [10:39] I just got used to work on a nice screen [10:39] seb128: my plan is 1. change my flat, 2. buy an LCD screen [10:39] I would like to work on the laptop screen directly again [10:39] +noy [10:39] but 2. can't be achieved with current flat :) [10:39] +not [10:39] can't type! [10:39] didrocks, hehe [10:39] * seb128 happy to not live in Paris [10:40] here you can get space for decent price [10:40] * didrocks really wants to come back to Lyon [10:40] one of my former colleagues just moved to Lyon [10:41] good choice :-) [10:46] didrocks - do you have a lack of space in your flat then? [10:47] chrisccoulson: right, 34m2 for 2 people is quite small. It was good when I didn't work at home, but not now :) Just waiting for few months before moving [10:47] yeah, we're starting to run out of space now we have a baby [10:47] and people keep buying her things too [10:47] :) [10:47] which makes it worse ;) [10:48] Eeep, that is small. I'm looking forward to 120m2 of house in Hobart. [10:48] chrisccoulson: kind people buying stuff for the baby, what a shame ;-) [10:48] didrocks: And so unexpected, too! :) [10:48] RAOF: oh right, not the same size :) [10:48] heh [10:48] * baptistemm was afraid to receive a 2 meter high Teddy bear when his child is born [10:49] it's nice that people buy gifts for the baby, but it's not so nice trying to find space to store them all ;) [10:49] * RAOF would imagine that would scare the child, too! [10:49] RAOF, I guess it depends on the country where you live, and the place [10:50] chrisccoulson, or receive gifts which plays loud music or makes lot of noise :) [10:50] baptistemm: Whether people give gifts for babies, or the relative size of houses, or both? :) [10:50] s/receive/receiving/ [10:50] RAOF, I was responding about the 120m² house [10:51] I wont imagine how much it would cost here [10:51] Yeah. That would cost like $1,000,000 in a nice suburb in Sydney. Much, much cheaper in Hobart. [10:52] (Also, Hobart's nicer than Sydney) === MenZa_ is now known as MenZa [12:11] channel is quiet [12:12] is anybody still there? ;-) [12:12] hey o/ [12:12] I was thinking the same thing :) [12:12] hey didrocks [12:12] we lost pitti in a server split apparently [12:13] I was wondering if I was on the buggy side, since apparently he can see me on the channel and replied to what I said an hour ago there but I didn't receive the reply [12:13] I didn't receive the reply either [12:14] and I don't see netsplit as I ignored the join/quit :) [12:14] hehe [12:14] s [12:14] so the channel is really quiet for you ;-) [12:14] right :-) [12:15] that's why maybe I don't receive any answer on my ubiquity question on #ubuntu-devel [12:15] that one could be because cjwatson is not working this week [12:16] oh, I didn't check if he was on vacation, right. I have to find it on my own so ) [12:16] :) [12:25] i'm still here! [12:25] it is quiet though ;) [12:25] * chrisccoulson waves [12:26] * seb128 waves back [12:53] seb128: I assumed the silence was the OMG IT'S FEATURE FREEZE panic [12:53] there might be that too ;-) [12:54] hey pitti [12:54] o/ [12:54] ;-) [12:54] wb [12:55] pitti is back \o/ [12:55] wb pitti [12:55] you are back \o/ [12:55] hehe [12:55] didrocks: is there any method to find out whether it's slow? [12:55] context: une [12:55] didrocks: I'd guess glxinfo would show software rendering on those boxes? [12:55] (for other people) [12:55] or rather 3d une to know if 2d launcher should be used [12:55] pitti: right, but glxinfo is slowing the netbook-launcher start so [12:56] didrocks: right, I'm not suggesting to actually call/grep it [12:56] didrocks: just whether that's the class of machines that you mean [12:56] right, that's what I got from my test [12:57] so, we have either: crash or slow netbook-launcher depending on driver I guess [12:57] didrocks: well, the "crash" case can be handled, by running -efl in the except handler? [12:58] pitti: the crash can happened different places depending on the driver (that's the fun part), so a wrapper would be needed in that case [12:59] didrocks: I take it that we want to ship -efl by default on the netbook images? [13:00] pitti: still not decided. taking the decision to only seed -efl on arm is an option asac pointed. It was just to enable a better experience for user who don't have compositing today [13:02] *nod* [13:04] didrocks: n-l might to the GL call that glxinfo is doing to find out whether it's SW rendering? [13:04] (instead of execing glxinfo | grep) [13:05] if it uses GL, then it certainly already links to libGL anyway [13:05] pitti: I can ask upstream which call is needed. I'm not sure we will handle all cases, but most of them should be covered then [13:07] const char *glRenderer = (const char *) glGetString(GL_RENDERER); [13:07] now, that doesn't look too complex [13:07] didrocks: ^ that's from glxinfo.c [13:07] didrocks: seems it's right there in /usr/include/GL/gl.h [13:08] pitti, I would be careful before claiming that ;-) [13:08] there is a reason why ie compiz does a zillion things to check if the config can work or not [13:08] seb128: hence my question about whether "software renderer" accurately describes the cases where we want to run -efl [13:08] seb128: because checking for _that_ seems easy [13:09] right [13:09] of course compositing != GL [13:09] I don't know what n-l uses [13:09] me neither [13:09] btw other topic when you are done with this one [13:09] but if that covers the majority of cases, it seems worthwhile checking? [13:09] installing gnome-user-share by default ;-) [13:09] pitti, right, agreed [13:09] seb128: won't that pull in apache? [13:10] pitti: thanks, I'm checking with upstream too [13:10] pitti, just apache-bin ;-) [13:10] * pitti eyes the overflown CDs [13:10] pitti, joke aside it works fine without apache, we want it for bluetooth sharing [13:10] seb128: 3.4 MB, that's the French language pack :) [13:10] ie being able to push files to the computer [13:10] oh, that doesn't work through obex? [13:11] well you need some UI to get that working no? [13:11] we're going to patch gnome-user-share to make the webdav stuff optional [13:11] and drop apache-bin to suggests [13:12] pitti, run bluetooth-properties and see the receive files button [13:12] that calls the gnome-user-share gui [13:12] nobody got round to that yet [13:12] seb128: I moved stuff between my old mobile and computer through the nautilus/bluetooth applet stuff; I thought that was how it's supposed to work? [13:12] pitti, that works because your phone support browsing [13:12] but seems quite some devices don't [13:12] ah [13:12] in which case you need to be able to push from the phone [13:13] and you need something on the receiver end [13:13] what chrisccoulson said [13:13] I'm fine doing the change to disable the webdav share box if apache is not installed [13:13] and moving apache to a suggests [13:13] yeah, it seems a sane thing to do [13:13] seb128: do you have hw to test this? [13:14] I will let somebody else collect bonus point to do the "do you want to install apache" when checking the box [13:14] i bet 99% of users won't really care about webdav, but want the obex push functionality [13:14] chrisccoulson: I had expected it the other way round actually [13:15] really? i think most people expect obex push to work, seeing as most bluetooth enabled handsets support it [13:15] seb128, for gnome-user-share I did the packaging modification, but not the UI patch [13:15] not that I'd have any kind of hard facts :) [13:15] pitti - me neither [13:15] (the most of the job is to do) [13:15] chrisccoulson: why would you push files from/to a headset? [13:15] but having webdav optional saves around 2MB of depends [13:15] pitti - handset (as in, cell phone) ;) [13:16] i don't think i said headset ;) [13:16] chrisccoulson: oh, ok; I never saw that kind of device, so I'm afraid I have no real opinion about how useful it is [13:16] pitti, I'm checking if I've some [13:16] the last three or four mobile phones that I paired with my computer just worked with browsing [13:16] bug we got request for it [13:16] pitti - most cell phones i've owned support obex push (although, my G1 doesn't support it) [13:16] so I never thought about a different method [13:16] it seems it's common for modern phones to not be browsable [13:17] my gf has a nokia 5800, and it supports both obex FTP and push [13:17] . o O { modern phones just allow you to install an sftp client } [13:17] *cough* [13:17] pitti - on the G1? [13:17] depends on how expensive your phone is I guess ;-) [13:17] chrisccoulson: sure :) [13:17] i'm running out of space on my G1 :( [13:18]