kwwiiyou cannot form a large group of very talented people from different fields and expect something in months00:00
troy_skwwii: I think I'm the guy that would probably have been saying that from the start no? You are preaching to the choir.00:00
kwwiitroy_s: you can see that as a positive factor...anything you do good is a break from the past :p00:00
troy_skwwii: But Microsoft, with limitless money and bottomless ability to recruit is still Microsoft.00:00
troy_skwwii: Which is why I still think this is a question of culture.00:01
troy_skwwii: In the _meantime_... something that is a baby step in the right direction (or at least overarching apparent trending I could probably argue) is representational data.00:01
troy_skwwii: You could probably push that overnight.00:01
troy_skwwii: And no one would really notice00:02
troy_skwwii: And it solves a 'problem' without doing any work.00:02
troy_skwwii: Not to mention that a mailing list with 22(!!!) replies on a fricking Word document is ... what's the word... WTF.00:03
troy_skwwii: Agree?00:03
kwwiiyes. agreed00:03
kwwiiI think that once the canonical design team shows their strengths the community might change a bit00:04
troy_skwwii: Lol... I actually subscribed to the list again just to rant on that ridiculous thread but alas, I can't even reply to the fricking thread.00:05
troy_skwwii: The memenu is the rallying cry. It shall be the beginning of something huge.00:05
troy_skwwii: fskcing brutal.00:05
troy_skwwii: Voldemort?00:06
kwwiitroy_s: I think that once all the indicator menus are implemented, tested and such things will make more sense00:08
kwwiinaturally, there is a lot to change00:08
kwwiibut it will evolve and there is a plan for that00:09
troy_skwwii: How about coming up with SOME aesthetic SOMEWHERE that is appealing to SOMEONE?00:09
troy_skwwii: Does no one on that entire team know about the aesthetic usability effect?00:09
troy_skwwii: You must just be sitting there squirming.00:09
kwwiitroy_s: to be honest, I wish I could talk about some of the ideas we've discussed but I imagine I would lose my job *really* quickly00:10
troy_skwwii: Yes I know. Why do you think I have _never_ pushed you on anything?00:10
kwwiiagain, the team is just now really gettig into high gear00:10
troy_skwwii: Especially in a logged channel.00:10
troy_skwwii: But let's face it, no one was talking about design around these parts until someone saw an economic upside.00:10
kwwiitroy_s: lol, give it 6 months00:10
troy_skwwii: No one mentionned art (and in fact, if you look closely, it's still tough to spot an artist / designer)00:11
troy_skwwii: I hope D is given a large say in that gongshow of webpresence.00:11
troy_skwwii: But time will tell. (Hell, how many others have his cred there?)00:12
troy_skwwii: Side note, _WTF_ happened to Julian?00:12
troy_skwwii: It is water way under the bridge now.00:12
troy_skwwii: WAY00:12
kwwiiI really liked Julian00:13
troy_skwwii: Gee... because maybe he seemed to show that he had a shred of a clue and credibility?00:13
troy_skwwii: I don't imagine that anyone that has a shred of credibility turns into a patsy there.00:13
kwwiiI think overall it was the case of the right person at the wrong time00:14
troy_skwwii: Wow. Mirco's damn short.00:14
troy_skwwii: LOL00:14
troy_skwwii: That looks like Castro behind Mark there. When are those from?00:14
kwwiiIvanka (who he hired), has kinda taken over the roll but in her own amazing way00:14
kwwiishe is really killer00:14
kwwiias a team, we are much more effective because of Ivanka00:15
troy_skwwii: The _glaring_ hole is that there isn't any visual design going on. Anyone that has read the article knows full well that, like it or not, the aesthetic usability effect is _real_ and it in fact is more important than the _actual_ usability.00:15
kwwiitroy_s: the developer sprint in Berlin a year and two weeks ago00:16
troy_skwwii: So the visual design component is still a gongshow.00:16
troy_skwwii: Too bad. I quite thought that Julian's approach to the workspace reenvisioning etc was _spot_ on.00:16
troy_skwwii: And I'm sure that was an abortion when it came to implementation.00:16
kwwiitroy_s: I understand what you're saying and why but I think you should give us a few months time to get things rolling00:17
kwwiiI don't think that anything he did has died00:17
kwwiiand with that, I will head off to bed00:18
troy_skwwii: Is D's reach going to extend into the desktop?00:18
troy_skwwii: Nacht.00:18
kwwiitroy_s: dom is amazing and although his work on the desktop is very limited there are influences of his work...we are approaching this holistically00:19
kwwiitroy_s: imagine all the touching points in really getting it right and then think about how much time and effort that would *really* be00:19
troy_skwwii: I am not saying for a SECOND that any of this shit is simple or easy etc.00:20
troy_skwwii: You full well know that.00:20
kwwiiit might be hard for the community to understand how things work in general and even harder for those in the know because they expect something and see no results00:20
troy_skwwii: Part of it, in fact, should be _eliminating_ touchpoints that are a gongshow.00:20
troy_s(good luck selling that one)00:20
kwwiiin answer to that I say, wait it out...we're coming ;)00:20
troy_skwwii: Well c'mon, it isn't like there is even a remote shred of a body of work or any sense of building.00:21
troy_skwwii: So the community is entirely fair to be evaluating things in that light.00:21
kwwiitroy_s: for any given release there are certain things you can improve and some you simply cannot, that does not mean that you don't have a master plan for the full future of all media00:21
troy_skwwii: C'mon.00:21
kwwiitroy_s: yes, there is little for anyone to feel or see until now00:22
troy_skwwii: We could _just_ look at the wallpaper as symptomatic.00:22
troy_skwwii: (And yes, I'm aware of that bearfight behind the doors)00:22
troy_skwwii: Anyways, get some sleep00:22
kwwiitroy_s: hey, brown is brown...it's cool00:22
troy_skwwii: Brown is fine00:22
troy_skwwii: Shit ability isn't.00:22
kwwiitroy_s: just kidding00:23
troy_skwwii: Hell... I'd dare say that if you dropped James White in there he'd say the same thing about brown.00:23
troy_skwwii: Funniest part is that after all this time, brown's deadly chic right now.00:23
troy_skwwii: But we still pooch it.00:23
troy_skwwii: Now sleep.00:23
kwwiiI actually included a picture of James Brown in jail in a presentation to Mark about new theme ideas00:23
troy_skwwii: WHITE. lol00:24
troy_skwwii: James WHITE. LOL00:24
troy_skwwii: Water flows down. You are in a desert.00:24
troy_skwwii: Fertile ground not.00:24
kwwiihow is it that I have never heard of James White?00:25
kwwiiother than the SF author00:25
troy_skwwii: He's a pretty hot commodity these days.00:26
troy_skwwii: And talented as hell.00:26
kwwiitroy_s: seen http://blog.chaotic.co.uk/00:27
troy_skwwii: btdtgtts00:27
troy_skwwii: been there done that00:27
troy_sblah blah00:27
troy_skwwii: Yes.00:27
troy_skwwii: I don't know if the solution is fanbois.00:28
troy_skwwii: Of that ilk. With little passion or care.00:28
troy_skwwii: Rather like Apple hiring a bunch of Microsoft fanbois.00:28
troy_skwwii: Just two pennies, but it's weka.00:28
troy_sweak even00:28
troy_skwwii: (Dare say that you'd probably agree on that front.)00:28
kwwiiI dare say, we might just impress you yet ;-)00:30
troy_skwwii: It isn't me you need to worry about. I'm just some dipsh*t.00:32
troy_skwwii: Anyways, I don't think that data supports 'Yay'. lol. D for certain.00:35
troy_skwwii: But that, not so much.00:35
=== chaotic_ is now known as chaotic
kwwiigood morning10:01
iainfarrellkwwii: morning :)10:01
kwwiiiainfarrell: hey10:02
zniavregood morning10:10
zniavrethere is somewhere nautilus 2.29 rgba support ppa's ?10:11
* darkmatter hands kwwii a quadruple shot of espresso. gmornin', and get to work! ;p10:11
kwwiidarkmatter: hehe10:38
kwwiizniavre: not that I know of10:38
kwwiizniavre: we started doing rgba code in gtk itself but there were some major X errrors in a some apps so we've postponed that work10:39
kwwiihi thorwil, how's things?10:39
thorwilkwwii: hating myself for getting involved in the manual project despite having enough on the list :)10:40
kwwiithorwil: I imagine you could spend a lot of time on that10:41
thorwilfont selection alone eats hours10:42
kwwiiI can just imagine the discussions about layout and such are lots of fun10:45
thorwilthere is no discussion on layout :)10:46
kwwiinot yet, you eman10:46
thorwilwe have a latex wizard and it seems like i can leave it to him10:46
thorwilthe fun so far involved people thinking having a lynx on the title page would be a must10:47
thorwilthankfully i could convince the leader it's not :)10:48
kwwiithorwil: hehe, I used to do a *lot* of work with TeX (making the SuSE books)11:07
kwwiiyou have to know what your are doing to get the layout right11:07
thorwili stopped using latex when being very happy with it turned into being fucking frustrated, because i could not even start to do layout invloving pictures with it11:08
* thorwil -> lunch11:10
* vish hehe was happy when thorwil became the manual design-team leader ;p 12:25
* vish back into woodwork12:26
* darkmatter is decidedly unhappy after his walk12:34
EquietHi. http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/_r1_c1.png15:28
EquietIt's my mockup for http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/random-idea-for-design-collaboration-tool/ .15:28
EquietThe upper half is quite done.15:29
kwwiiEquiet: intersting15:32
Equiet(Any feedback would be appreciated.)15:37
=== Raff7 is now known as bahe
zleaphi Merula18:17
Merulahi :$18:17
Merulait's.. quiet18:18
zleapmat_t, can you help Merula18:18
Merulacan anyone? :/18:19
Merulais anyone... here?18:20
Merulaexcept us, zleap18:20
zleapthe wonders of Free software, this,18:21
* vish surprised at activity here ;)18:21
Merulaoooh someone else18:21
zleaphi vish18:21
zleapcan you help Merula please18:21
vishMerula: what's up?18:22
Merulacare to explain, zleap? :/18:22
Merulaelse i'll make an eejit outta myself :P18:22
zleapok Merula wants to look in to helping with the art project18:23
vishMerula: to start you can have a look at the wiki > http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork and some of the projects you can get involved in are listed there18:24
Merulabut i';ve never done any of this stuff before :(18:25
Merulahence why i need help18:25
vishMerula: not sure i understand?  what are your interests ?  you are looking to be involved in which aspect?18:25
Merulaim an expressive artist. i draw and paint and computer manipulate.18:26
zleapvish, i suggested looking here, as Merula said she wasnt a programmer or technical in that way18:27
vishMerula: do you have an online portfolio ?18:28
Merulaerm... unless you include 12/13 yr old drawings then not at the moment :/18:29
Merulai can set one up?18:29
vishit not a problem , just wanted to have an insight :)18:29
zleapMerula, that sounds a good idea anyway18:29
Merulahttp://www.youtube.com/jennie140695  < = they're my old drawings on videos18:30
vishMerula: the official artwork is usually done and decided by the canonical design team , the community usually helps in the artwork as and when required18:30
zleapso right now things are quiet, or is there a time of day when there is more activity18:33
thorwilit's pretty random18:34
thorwilbut what do you expect?18:34
zleapwell #ubuntu-uk is qutie busy18:34
thorwil*talking* about artwork all day? ;)18:34
zleapso some channels have a peek times of activity18:34
vishzleap: well , there is not much to keep talking about art all day ;)  ... the activity here is _very_ low18:35
Merulawhat's the gender spread like? male dominated? (as per usual X_X)18:36
vishwell its the web... gender doesnt really matter ;)18:36
vishMerula: it isnt clear what help you are looking for...18:36
Merulait was all zleap's idea *pokes*18:37
Merulahe said i could get more involved here18:37
vishMerula: the Canonical design team lead is a woman ... ;)18:37
thorwiltroy_s: interesting showcase regarding design competitions: http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/european_organic_euro-leaf.php18:37
zleapwell i suggested irc as we were alrady in irc anyway18:37
troy_sthorwil: Greets brother. How you doing?18:38
zleapbut you contribute according to what skills you have18:38
Merulavish: ok then18:38
thorwiltroy_s: things move slowly :)18:38
troy_sLook at the 'End Justify Means' poll... LOL18:38
vishMerula: currently there is design work going on for the Ubuntu manual.. you can work on that if you are interested18:39
Merulawhat sort of design?18:39
troy_sMerula: You have a portfolio?18:39
Merulatroy_s: no, i dont know how18:39
troy_sMerula: Hrm. What does that mean exactly? You don't know how to put samples of work up online?18:39
Merulaerm, i;ve never done design before. like i said, i do expressive art. like cartoons and paintings...18:40
Merulathat doesn't mean i can't do design18:40
zleapMerula, the manual is online,  i guess things like taking screen shots of applications18:40
vishMerula: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Artwork18:40
troy_sMerula: The point is though, everyone is largely strangers here. That means it is _extremely_ difficult to evaluate where someone would fit in with a given project.18:41
zleapMerula, to bring you upto speed, this project is to include a decent manual for users  in the next release 10.0418:41
Merulai don't think any of this is suited to me at all :/18:43
Merulasorry for the waste of time, guys18:43
troy_sAnd I guess that is where it lays.18:43
vishtroy_s: ;)  why do you intimidate ;p18:43
troy_svish: I don't think that was intimidation.18:44
vishjust kidding ;)18:44
troy_svish: But enough already with the people that drop in for five minutes and want to do crap.18:44
vishtroy_s: yeah , but Merula seemed to fit for the anime stuff ..18:44
vishzleap: there is the > http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/anime-boston-well-on-our-way/18:45
troy_svish: How much effort does it take to push a project along?18:45
troy_svish: And then wonder how long someone would last in a project of any depth if you aren't willing to spend what - five minutes chatting in IRC?18:45
vishtroy_s: yeah , it was disappointing at the quit speed the user left :(18:46
zleapso what does the anime project involve18:47
zleapi havre posted that link to the other channel18:47
vishzleap: i'm not sure either , you can ask Merula to comment on the blog...18:48
zleapwhat is the average age here18:48
zleapok will ask18:49
troy_sI'm pretty sure that kwwii and I drag the average age up into the 'in dog years we are dead' zone.18:50
Equiet<Equiet> Hi. http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/_r1_c1.png // Have seen?18:51
zleapso what is this anime event then18:51
zleapwhat needs doing from a drawing / artistic viewpoint18:52
vishEquiet: whats the cross and the check mark for?18:52
Equietvish: That means approved, rejected and pending.18:53
EquietI was too lazy to find icons for that.18:54
vishEquiet: where does one comment?18:54
thorwilEquiet: talked with mizmo?18:55
Equietvish: It's not done yet.18:55
EquietLook only at upper half.18:55
Equietthorwil: No.18:55
EquietWho is mizmo?18:55
vishEquiet: mizmo is mairin18:56
vishEquiet: for a site which is to display the artwork , a bigger would be more ideal , IMO  ..18:57
zleaphttp://divajutta.com/doctormo/ubunchu/ looks more useful18:57
troy_szleap: I believe that Martin (that site) commissioned a few drawings at a local comicon.18:58
troy_szleap: They should be somewhere on that blog.18:58
Equietvish: What to be bigger?18:59
zleapso they pay people or just get contributions18:59
vishEquiet: from your mockup , the thumbnail size at the top part is small... it would be better if it was bigger thumbnail... better perspective19:00
troy_szleap: He paid the artists.19:01
troy_szleap: That said, the three of them are also very skilled.19:01
zleapso this project is still active then19:01
troy_szleap: He is unlikely to pay anyone unless he would deem them in line with the view.19:01
troy_szleap: No clue. But if you look at the samples, you will see that at least one is of solid quality.19:02
troy_szleap: The other is questionable, and that said, I would be willing to say that it is probably 1000% better than what the community might be able to create.19:02
troy_szleap: I'd like to think I was wrong, but I'd say it is a safe bet.19:02
zleapok i have suggested to merula she gets in touch with the project directly19:05
EquietDo you like http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/abstractive_r1_c1.jpg ? Isn't it too simple?19:07
yemanjafor me it's beautiful :)19:08
troy_szleap: Make sure that she actually has some work up.19:08
yemanjawish software you use to do it Equiet ?19:08
EquietAdobe Fireworks CS4.19:08
thorwilEquiet: do you read abduzeedo?19:08
troy_szleap: It is like showing up in a kernel channel and saying that you don't have any sample code etc up.19:08
Equietthorwil: Yes, I do.19:09
thorwilEquiet: that picture screams abduzeedo and not in a good way19:09
zleapok i have offered to host a few files19:10
EquietI used a font from there...19:10
zleapso we need to contact martin right19:10
troy_szleap: And please explain to here that if she took offense to my comment, I apologies - that wasn't the intention.19:10
troy_szleap: Although I suspect she just felt over her head with the manual link etc.19:10
troy_szleap: I'd say it is pretty simple. Gather up some work, montage it in imagemagick or create a simple contact sheet of reasonable size, and get it to Martin.19:11
troy_szleap: That's a pretty simple path.19:11
troy_szleap: The work will likely speak for itself.19:11
troy_szleap: (In either direction.)19:11
zleapchat later19:44

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