[00:00] you cannot form a large group of very talented people from different fields and expect something in months [00:00] kwwii: I think I'm the guy that would probably have been saying that from the start no? You are preaching to the choir. [00:00] troy_s: you can see that as a positive factor...anything you do good is a break from the past :p [00:00] kwwii: But Microsoft, with limitless money and bottomless ability to recruit is still Microsoft. [00:01] kwwii: Which is why I still think this is a question of culture. [00:01] kwwii: In the _meantime_... something that is a baby step in the right direction (or at least overarching apparent trending I could probably argue) is representational data. [00:01] kwwii: You could probably push that overnight. [00:02] kwwii: And no one would really notice [00:02] kwwii: And it solves a 'problem' without doing any work. [00:02] lol [00:03] kwwii: Not to mention that a mailing list with 22(!!!) replies on a fricking Word document is ... what's the word... WTF. [00:03] :) [00:03] kwwii: Agree? [00:03] yes. agreed [00:04] I think that once the canonical design team shows their strengths the community might change a bit [00:05] kwwii: Lol... I actually subscribed to the list again just to rant on that ridiculous thread but alas, I can't even reply to the fricking thread. [00:05] kwwii: The memenu is the rallying cry. It shall be the beginning of something huge. [00:05] kwwii: fskcing brutal. [00:06] kwwii: Voldemort? [00:08] troy_s: I think that once all the indicator menus are implemented, tested and such things will make more sense [00:08] naturally, there is a lot to change [00:09] but it will evolve and there is a plan for that [00:09] kwwii: How about coming up with SOME aesthetic SOMEWHERE that is appealing to SOMEONE? [00:09] kwwii: Does no one on that entire team know about the aesthetic usability effect? [00:09] kwwii: You must just be sitting there squirming. [00:10] troy_s: to be honest, I wish I could talk about some of the ideas we've discussed but I imagine I would lose my job *really* quickly [00:10] kwwii: Yes I know. Why do you think I have _never_ pushed you on anything? [00:10] again, the team is just now really gettig into high gear [00:10] kwwii: Especially in a logged channel. [00:10] kwwii: But let's face it, no one was talking about design around these parts until someone saw an economic upside. [00:10] troy_s: lol, give it 6 months [00:11] kwwii: No one mentionned art (and in fact, if you look closely, it's still tough to spot an artist / designer) [00:11] kwwii: I hope D is given a large say in that gongshow of webpresence. [00:12] kwwii: But time will tell. (Hell, how many others have his cred there?) [00:12] kwwii: Side note, _WTF_ happened to Julian? [00:12] lol [00:12] kwwii: It is water way under the bridge now. [00:12] kwwii: WAY [00:13] I really liked Julian [00:13] kwwii: Gee... because maybe he seemed to show that he had a shred of a clue and credibility? [00:13] http://www.flickr.com/photos/kwwii/3331322429/ [00:13] kwwii: I don't imagine that anyone that has a shred of credibility turns into a patsy there. [00:14] I think overall it was the case of the right person at the wrong time [00:14] kwwii: Wow. Mirco's damn short. [00:14] kwwii: LOL [00:14] kwwii: That looks like Castro behind Mark there. When are those from? [00:14] Ivanka (who he hired), has kinda taken over the roll but in her own amazing way [00:14] she is really killer [00:15] as a team, we are much more effective because of Ivanka [00:15] kwwii: The _glaring_ hole is that there isn't any visual design going on. Anyone that has read the article knows full well that, like it or not, the aesthetic usability effect is _real_ and it in fact is more important than the _actual_ usability. [00:16] troy_s: the developer sprint in Berlin a year and two weeks ago [00:16] kwwii: So the visual design component is still a gongshow. [00:16] kwwii: Too bad. I quite thought that Julian's approach to the workspace reenvisioning etc was _spot_ on. [00:16] kwwii: And I'm sure that was an abortion when it came to implementation. [00:17] troy_s: I understand what you're saying and why but I think you should give us a few months time to get things rolling [00:17] I don't think that anything he did has died [00:18] and with that, I will head off to bed [00:18] kwwii: Is D's reach going to extend into the desktop? [00:18] kwwii: Nacht. [00:19] troy_s: dom is amazing and although his work on the desktop is very limited there are influences of his work...we are approaching this holistically [00:19] troy_s: imagine all the touching points in really getting it right and then think about how much time and effort that would *really* be [00:20] kwwii: I am not saying for a SECOND that any of this shit is simple or easy etc. [00:20] kwwii: You full well know that. [00:20] it might be hard for the community to understand how things work in general and even harder for those in the know because they expect something and see no results [00:20] kwwii: Part of it, in fact, should be _eliminating_ touchpoints that are a gongshow. [00:20] (good luck selling that one) [00:20] in answer to that I say, wait it out...we're coming ;) [00:21] kwwii: Well c'mon, it isn't like there is even a remote shred of a body of work or any sense of building. [00:21] kwwii: So the community is entirely fair to be evaluating things in that light. [00:21] troy_s: for any given release there are certain things you can improve and some you simply cannot, that does not mean that you don't have a master plan for the full future of all media [00:21] kwwii: C'mon. [00:22] troy_s: yes, there is little for anyone to feel or see until now [00:22] kwwii: We could _just_ look at the wallpaper as symptomatic. [00:22] kwwii: (And yes, I'm aware of that bearfight behind the doors) [00:22] kwwii: Anyways, get some sleep [00:22] troy_s: hey, brown is brown...it's cool [00:22] :P [00:22] kwwii: Brown is fine [00:22] kwwii: Shit ability isn't. [00:23] troy_s: just kidding [00:23] kwwii: Hell... I'd dare say that if you dropped James White in there he'd say the same thing about brown. [00:23] kwwii: Funniest part is that after all this time, brown's deadly chic right now. [00:23] kwwii: But we still pooch it. [00:23] kwwii: Now sleep. [00:23] I actually included a picture of James Brown in jail in a presentation to Mark about new theme ideas [00:24] kwwii: WHITE. lol [00:24] kwwii: James WHITE. LOL [00:24] lmao [00:24] kwwii: Water flows down. You are in a desert. [00:24] lol [00:24] kwwii: Fertile ground not. [00:24] lol [00:25] how is it that I have never heard of James White? [00:25] other than the SF author [00:26] kwwii: He's a pretty hot commodity these days. [00:26] kwwii: And talented as hell. [00:27] troy_s: seen http://blog.chaotic.co.uk/ [00:27] kwwii: btdtgtts [00:27] ? [00:27] kwwii: been there done that [00:27] blah blah [00:27] kwwii: Yes. [00:28] kwwii: I don't know if the solution is fanbois. [00:28] kwwii: Of that ilk. With little passion or care. [00:28] kwwii: Rather like Apple hiring a bunch of Microsoft fanbois. [00:28] kwwii: Just two pennies, but it's weka. [00:28] weak even [00:28] kwwii: (Dare say that you'd probably agree on that front.) [00:30] I dare say, we might just impress you yet ;-) [00:32] kwwii: It isn't me you need to worry about. I'm just some dipsh*t. [00:34] :P [00:35] kwwii: Anyways, I don't think that data supports 'Yay'. lol. D for certain. [00:35] kwwii: But that, not so much. === chaotic_ is now known as chaotic [10:01] good morning [10:01] kwwii: morning :) [10:02] iainfarrell: hey [10:10] good morning [10:11] there is somewhere nautilus 2.29 rgba support ppa's ? [10:11] * darkmatter hands kwwii a quadruple shot of espresso. gmornin', and get to work! ;p [10:30] morning! [10:38] darkmatter: hehe [10:38] zniavre: not that I know of [10:39] zniavre: we started doing rgba code in gtk itself but there were some major X errrors in a some apps so we've postponed that work [10:39] hi thorwil, how's things? [10:40] kwwii: hating myself for getting involved in the manual project despite having enough on the list :) [10:41] lol [10:41] thorwil: I imagine you could spend a lot of time on that [10:42] font selection alone eats hours [10:45] I can just imagine the discussions about layout and such are lots of fun [10:46] there is no discussion on layout :) [10:46] not yet, you eman [10:46] mean [10:46] we have a latex wizard and it seems like i can leave it to him [10:47] the fun so far involved people thinking having a lynx on the title page would be a must [10:48] thankfully i could convince the leader it's not :) [11:07] thorwil: hehe, I used to do a *lot* of work with TeX (making the SuSE books) [11:07] you have to know what your are doing to get the layout right [11:08] i stopped using latex when being very happy with it turned into being fucking frustrated, because i could not even start to do layout invloving pictures with it [11:10] * thorwil -> lunch [11:19] ;) [12:25] * vish hehe was happy when thorwil became the manual design-team leader ;p [12:26] * vish back into woodwork [12:34] * darkmatter is decidedly unhappy after his walk [15:00] tr [15:28] Hi. http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/_r1_c1.png [15:28] It's my mockup for http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/02/13/random-idea-for-design-collaboration-tool/ . [15:29] The upper half is quite done. [15:32] Equiet: intersting [15:37] (Any feedback would be appreciated.) === Raff7 is now known as bahe [18:17] hi Merula [18:17] hi :$ [18:17] hi [18:18] it's.. quiet [18:18] yeah [18:18] mat_t, can you help Merula [18:19] can anyone? :/ [18:19] lol [18:20] is anyone... here? [18:20] except us, zleap [18:20] yeah [18:21] the wonders of Free software, this, [18:21] * vish surprised at activity here ;) [18:21] oooh someone else [18:21] hi vish [18:21] can you help Merula please [18:22] hi.. [18:22] hi [18:22] Merula: what's up? [18:22] care to explain, zleap? :/ [18:22] else i'll make an eejit outta myself :P [18:23] ok Merula wants to look in to helping with the art project [18:24] Merula: to start you can have a look at the wiki > http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork and some of the projects you can get involved in are listed there [18:25] but i';ve never done any of this stuff before :( [18:25] hence why i need help [18:25] Merula: not sure i understand? what are your interests ? you are looking to be involved in which aspect? [18:26] im an expressive artist. i draw and paint and computer manipulate. [18:27] vish, i suggested looking here, as Merula said she wasnt a programmer or technical in that way [18:28] Merula: do you have an online portfolio ? [18:29] erm... unless you include 12/13 yr old drawings then not at the moment :/ [18:29] i can set one up? [18:29] it not a problem , just wanted to have an insight :) [18:29] its* [18:29] Merula, that sounds a good idea anyway [18:30] http://www.youtube.com/jennie140695 < = they're my old drawings on videos [18:30] Merula: the official artwork is usually done and decided by the canonical design team , the community usually helps in the artwork as and when required [18:31] ok [18:33] so right now things are quiet, or is there a time of day when there is more activity [18:34] it's pretty random [18:34] but what do you expect? [18:34] well #ubuntu-uk is qutie busy [18:34] *talking* about artwork all day? ;) [18:34] yes [18:34] so some channels have a peek times of activity [18:34] ;) [18:35] zleap: well , there is not much to keep talking about art all day ;) ... the activity here is _very_ low [18:35] ok [18:36] what's the gender spread like? male dominated? (as per usual X_X) [18:36] well its the web... gender doesnt really matter ;) [18:36] Merula: it isnt clear what help you are looking for... [18:37] it was all zleap's idea *pokes* [18:37] hi [18:37] he said i could get more involved here [18:37] Merula: the Canonical design team lead is a woman ... ;) [18:37] troy_s: interesting showcase regarding design competitions: http://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/european_organic_euro-leaf.php [18:37] well i suggested irc as we were alrady in irc anyway [18:38] thorwil: Greets brother. How you doing? [18:38] but you contribute according to what skills you have [18:38] vish: ok then [18:38] troy_s: things move slowly :) [18:38] Look at the 'End Justify Means' poll... LOL [18:39] Merula: currently there is design work going on for the Ubuntu manual.. you can work on that if you are interested [18:39] what sort of design? [18:39] Merula: You have a portfolio? [18:39] troy_s: no, i dont know how [18:39] Merula: Hrm. What does that mean exactly? You don't know how to put samples of work up online? [18:40] erm, i;ve never done design before. like i said, i do expressive art. like cartoons and paintings... [18:40] that doesn't mean i can't do design [18:40] Merula, the manual is online, i guess things like taking screen shots of applications [18:40] Merula: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Artwork [18:41] Merula: The point is though, everyone is largely strangers here. That means it is _extremely_ difficult to evaluate where someone would fit in with a given project. [18:41] Merula, to bring you upto speed, this project is to include a decent manual for users in the next release 10.04 [18:43] i don't think any of this is suited to me at all :/ [18:43] sorry for the waste of time, guys [18:43] LOL [18:43] And I guess that is where it lays. [18:43] troy_s: ;) why do you intimidate ;p [18:44] vish: I don't think that was intimidation. [18:44] just kidding ;) [18:44] vish: But enough already with the people that drop in for five minutes and want to do crap. [18:44] troy_s: yeah , but Merula seemed to fit for the anime stuff .. [18:45] zleap: there is the > http://doctormo.wordpress.com/2010/02/17/anime-boston-well-on-our-way/ [18:45] vish: How much effort does it take to push a project along? [18:45] vish: And then wonder how long someone would last in a project of any depth if you aren't willing to spend what - five minutes chatting in IRC? [18:46] troy_s: yeah , it was disappointing at the quit speed the user left :( [18:47] so what does the anime project involve [18:47] i havre posted that link to the other channel [18:48] zleap: i'm not sure either , you can ask Merula to comment on the blog... [18:48] what is the average age here [18:49] ok will ask [18:49] 34.56 [18:50] lol! [18:50] I'm pretty sure that kwwii and I drag the average age up into the 'in dog years we are dead' zone. [18:51] Hi. http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/_r1_c1.png // Have seen? [18:51] so what is this anime event then [18:52] what needs doing from a drawing / artistic viewpoint [18:52] Equiet: whats the cross and the check mark for? [18:53] vish: That means approved, rejected and pending. [18:53] ah.. [18:54] I was too lazy to find icons for that. [18:54] Equiet: where does one comment? [18:55] Equiet: talked with mizmo? [18:55] vish: It's not done yet. [18:55] ah.. [18:55] Look only at upper half. [18:55] thorwil: No. [18:55] Who is mizmo? [18:56] Equiet: mizmo is mairin [18:56] Ah... [18:57] Equiet: for a site which is to display the artwork , a bigger would be more ideal , IMO .. [18:57] http://divajutta.com/doctormo/ubunchu/ looks more useful [18:58] zleap: I believe that Martin (that site) commissioned a few drawings at a local comicon. [18:58] zleap: They should be somewhere on that blog. [18:58] ok [18:59] vish: What to be bigger? [18:59] so they pay people or just get contributions [19:00] Equiet: from your mockup , the thumbnail size at the top part is small... it would be better if it was bigger thumbnail... better perspective [19:01] zleap: He paid the artists. [19:01] ah [19:01] zleap: That said, the three of them are also very skilled. [19:01] so this project is still active then [19:01] zleap: He is unlikely to pay anyone unless he would deem them in line with the view. [19:02] k [19:02] zleap: No clue. But if you look at the samples, you will see that at least one is of solid quality. [19:02] zleap: The other is questionable, and that said, I would be willing to say that it is probably 1000% better than what the community might be able to create. [19:02] zleap: I'd like to think I was wrong, but I'd say it is a safe bet. [19:05] ok i have suggested to merula she gets in touch with the project directly [19:07] Do you like http://stelmaria.equiet.operaunite.com/file_sharing/content/abstractive_r1_c1.jpg ? Isn't it too simple? [19:08] for me it's beautiful :) [19:08] zleap: Make sure that she actually has some work up. [19:08] wish software you use to do it Equiet ? [19:08] Adobe Fireworks CS4. [19:08] Equiet: do you read abduzeedo? [19:08] zleap: It is like showing up in a kernel channel and saying that you don't have any sample code etc up. [19:09] ok [19:09] thorwil: Yes, I do. [19:09] Equiet: that picture screams abduzeedo and not in a good way [19:10] ok i have offered to host a few files [19:10] I used a font from there... [19:10] so we need to contact martin right [19:10] zleap: And please explain to here that if she took offense to my comment, I apologies - that wasn't the intention. [19:10] zleap: Although I suspect she just felt over her head with the manual link etc. [19:11] zleap: I'd say it is pretty simple. Gather up some work, montage it in imagemagick or create a simple contact sheet of reasonable size, and get it to Martin. [19:11] zleap: That's a pretty simple path. [19:11] zleap: The work will likely speak for itself. [19:11] zleap: (In either direction.) [19:14] ok [19:44] chat later