[00:11] <dobey> any uploaders around?
[00:36] <TheMuso`> dobey: What needs uploading?
[00:36] <maxb> Is this the right channel for totem/gstreamer in Ubuntu?
[00:37] <maxb> I'm wondering if anyone working in those areas tests DVD playback
[00:39] <TheMuso`> maxb: I think those who maintain such packages are not around currently.
[00:41] <TheMuso`> dobey: To be more clear, I can upload whatever you need uploading.
[00:43] <maxb> Am I at least in the right channel that suitable people might be around at the right time of day? :-)
[00:48] <james_w> maxb: yup
[00:56] <TheMuso`> /c/c
[01:26] <chrisccoulson> bah, i can't upload gnome-user-share any more
[01:32] <kenvandine> hey rickspencer3
[01:32] <rickspencer3> hi kenvandine
[01:45] <rickspencer3> woah ff is well and truly broken for me
[01:48] <TheMuso`> FF as in firefox?
[01:49] <nekohayo> feature notabug?
[01:49] <nekohayo> ;)
[02:19] <rickspencer3> TheMuso`, yeah
[02:20] <rickspencer3> asac, is just made of awesome
[02:20] <rickspencer3> he's already uploaded what he thinks will fix it
[02:22] <asac> well. awesomely failed ;)
[02:22] <asac> so now fixing the dirt ;)
[02:30] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, you about?
[02:30] <rickspencer3> asac, thanks for the fix!
[02:30] <rickspencer3> I hope you get some sleep now!
[02:30] <rickspencer3> ttyt
[02:31] <asac> sure  about to do that ;)
[02:31] <asac> can sleep much better that way
[02:48] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, hey
[02:48] <rickspencer3> how's it going robert_ancell?
[02:48] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, good
[02:48] <rickspencer3> someone in #ubuntu-app-devel was asking about how to lay out files for a game
[02:48] <rickspencer3> seemed like you would be up, and would have an opinion
[02:49] <rickspencer3> it was gingerheadman
[02:49] <robert_ancell> when? not seeing it in the log
[02:49] <rickspencer3> this is "app-devel", not "devel"
[02:49] <robert_ancell> oh
[02:49] <robert_ancell> didn't know about that one!
[02:49] <rickspencer3> it's new
[02:49] <rickspencer3> if you wouldn't mind, and you have like 3 minutes
[02:49] <rickspencer3> maybe you could help him out
[02:49] <robert_ancell> np
[02:50] <rickspencer3> thanks robert_ancell
[02:50]  * robert_ancell reading log..
[02:55] <dobey> TheMuso`: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu/lucid/ubuntuone-storage-protocol/trunk/+merge/19552 and https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~dobey/ubuntu/lucid/ubuntuone-client/trunk/+merge/19557
[02:56] <TheMuso`> dobey: I'll take a look.
[02:57] <TheMuso`> dobey: Do they need uploading in a particular order?
[03:03] <TheMuso`> dobey: also the package gives a Vcs-Bzr pointer to https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntuone-control-tower/ubuntu/lucid/ubuntuone-client/trunk. Should I be using that branch in any way shape or form?
[03:04] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, the Gwibber posting UI just rocks!
[03:04] <rickspencer3> oops, I guess I meant that for kenvandine ;)
[03:04] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, jono wants to marry simple scan
[03:05] <kenvandine> haha
[03:06] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, what is the process required to make an application "featured"?
[03:07] <TheMuso`> I don't feel comfortable uploading/merging these unless there is a documented procedure for these ubuntuone packages somewhere. Merging from a personal branch seems weird considering the packaging points to the ubuntuone-control-tower branch.
[03:07] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I dunno yet
[03:07] <dobey> TheMuso`: ubuntuone-storage-protocol needs to be uploaded first
[03:07] <rickspencer3> you tell me and I tell mvo ;)
[03:08] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, in all seriousness, how do you suggest we pick those apps?
[03:08] <dobey> TheMuso`: no, i forgot to change the Vcs-Bzr there to point to lp:ubuntu/ubuntuone-blah
[03:08] <TheMuso`> dobey: Ok just its just a merge review, and upload
[03:08] <dobey> working merge proposals for package branches is still a new thing to me :)
[03:09] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I think we should decide how many to have and then propose new ones at desktop meeting.  Once we have the max number you have to nominate one to replace
[03:09] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I shall steel that idea
[03:09] <rickspencer3> the other option was for me to pick ;)
[03:10] <rickspencer3> Rick's Picks
[03:10] <dobey> anyway, I need to get some sleep
[03:11] <TheMuso`> dobey: ok am on it.
[03:14] <kenvandine> dobey, gettting an upload!
[03:14] <kenvandine> dobey, that whole process is "so documented"
[03:14] <robert_ancell>  rickspencer3, inkscape! cheese! blender! frozen-bubble!
[03:15] <rickspencer3> yes
[03:15] <kenvandine> dobey, best docs i found is "bzr help dh_make"
[03:15] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, quickly! photobomb!
[03:15] <rickspencer3> j/k
[03:15] <kenvandine> dobey,  not for merge proposals... but for the process of sucking in packages
[03:15] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, you know a small part of you isn't j/k :)
[03:16] <rickspencer3> riiight
[03:16] <rickspencer3> well, quickly is cool
[03:16] <rickspencer3> but we should probably stick with apps in Main for them to be "featured"
[03:17] <kenvandine> :)
[03:17] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, and gui based
[03:17] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, yeah, and not for programmers :/
[03:18] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, it would be kind of nice to have a programmers featured section, i.e. an ide, glade, ... but I guess programmers can easily look on the web
[03:20] <robert_ancell> *sigh* software-center does not close with Ctrl+Q.  I think I might try and tackle the Ctrl+Q/Ctrl+W message for Lucid+1
[03:20] <robert_ancell> s/message/mess
[03:28] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I suppose that is a bug
[03:28] <rickspencer3> unless mpt has decided that we should do it differently now
[03:28] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, it's a very contentious that everyone likes to argue about and not fix
[03:28] <robert_ancell> contentious point
[03:29] <rickspencer3> anyway, for this case, "Q" seems logical, as it is quiting an app, not closing a window
[03:30] <robert_ancell> what I do is, Ctrl+Q for quit application (all applications implement this), Ctrl+W for close document (if appropriate for application).  If a single document app use Ctrl+W for quit as well
[03:30] <rickspencer3> I'll see if I can fix it right now
[03:30] <rickspencer3> right
[03:30] <rickspencer3> what does the HIG say?
[03:30] <rickspencer3> in any case "W" seems wrong, as there is no document
[03:31] <robert_ancell> hmm, my ff is broken now.  Did that upload come asac?
[03:31] <TheMuso`> ubuntuone-storage-protocol uploaded, waiting for a test build of ubuntuone-client.
[03:31] <TheMuso`> robert_ancell: It was uploaded, but likely not published yet.
[03:32] <robert_ancell> TheMuso`, ah, should have waiting to do my update :)
[03:32] <robert_ancell> waited
[03:32] <robert_ancell> man, I'm on a roll today
[03:37] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, the quit command is a stock menu item in Glade
[03:37] <rickspencer3> would be more work for him to do a merge than to just do it
[03:37] <TheMuso`> robert_ancell: its built on amd64 but yet to be published, building on i386.
[03:39] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, change w to q in SoftwareCenter.ui line 60
[03:39] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, uh
[03:39] <rickspencer3> I edited the glade file and changed it to quit from close
[03:40] <rickspencer3> if it uses a stock item, best to just use that, right?
[03:41] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I don't think the stock buttons carry shortcuts anymore
[03:41] <rickspencer3> really?
[03:41] <rickspencer3> oh snap
[03:41] <rickspencer3> that sux
[03:41] <kenvandine> that sounds like a bug!
[03:41] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, I don't know why it was changed but it seems to have happened some time ago
[03:41] <robert_ancell> with the menus changing etc I just assume these things are being done on purpose :)
[03:42] <kenvandine> seems silly
[03:42] <kenvandine> this doesn't encourage consistency
[03:42] <rickspencer3> whatever
[03:42] <robert_ancell> which is why we have _no_ consistency :)
[03:42]  * kenvandine wouldn't be surprised if it was on purpose :/
[03:42] <kenvandine> but i still think that is silly
[03:43] <mclasen> robert_ancell: must be an Ubuntu improvement... stock items haven't changed upstream
[03:43] <rickspencer3> I should be refactoring these quidget.prompts.filedialogs, but the tedium is driving me crazy
[03:43] <robert_ancell> I love Python apps, sudoedit the installed file and it works until next upgrade
[03:43] <TheMuso`> dobey: ubuntuone stuff you requested is now uploaded.
[03:44] <robert_ancell> mclasen, right
[03:44] <kenvandine> TheMuso`, thx!
[03:44] <TheMuso`> kenvandine: np
[03:44] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, kenvandine looks like some have 'em and some don
[03:44] <rickspencer3> t
[03:45] <robert_ancell> mclasen, hey, which app did you put the gdm gconf stuff in?
[03:45] <robert_ancell> damn, just missed him!
[03:45] <rickspencer3> no, wrong
[03:46] <robert_ancell> There also doesn't seem to be a Help>Contents menu anymore which should be consistent (and F1 shortcut)
[03:50] <rickspencer3> in glade you have to set an accelerator in addition to choosing the stock item
[03:50] <rickspencer3> seems rather odd
[03:51] <rickspencer3> but happy I figured that out
[03:52]  * rickspencer3 pushes code and turns out lights
[03:52] <rickspencer3> g'night all
[03:52] <robert_ancell> night
[06:11] <Amaranth> Well, compiz is using almost no CPU now according to bootchart
[06:11] <Amaranth> of course I've only got 5 plugins installed and loaded...
[06:13] <Amaranth> also seems to have cut 1.5 seconds off my boot
[06:14] <Amaranth> now to figure out which plugins are the problem...
[06:39] <^arky^> Question about unclutter: setting START_UNCLUTTER doesn't seems to have effect in lucid?
[06:47] <pitti> Good morning
[06:47] <pitti> didrocks: upgrade> set it to "dropped" and add a comment at the bottom about the details
[06:49] <^arky^> pitti: Good morning
[06:53] <Amaranth> good morning pitti
[07:15] <pitti> didrocks: in KVM it seems that n-l-efl wants to start up, and on the mini I get n-l, so this part works, congrats! too bad that n-l-efl crashes immediately :/
[07:33]  * Amaranth is off to make more bootcharts
[08:01] <Bacta> Hai all!
[08:01] <Bacta> XD
[08:20] <didrocks> good morning
[08:21] <didrocks> pitti: oh, n-l-efl crash?
[08:21] <pitti> bonjour didrocks
[08:21] <pitti> didrocks: yes, just try to boot today's netbook daily
[08:21] <pitti> didrocks: ^ that built again, BTW \o/
[08:21] <pitti> didrocks: (boot it on a machine without 3D, such as KVM)
[08:22] <pitti> didrocks: but that probably belongs into asac's domain rather
[08:23] <didrocks> hey pitti :)
[08:23] <didrocks> pitti: right
[08:23] <didrocks> pitti: I'll help asac as well on setting up a dedicated n-l-efl session
[08:24] <didrocks> (the work as already began, just need some cleaning)
[08:25] <didrocks> I tried as well on Xephyr and on my laptop with and without the nvidia driver
[08:25] <pitti> didrocks: we wanted to bring back OO.o to netbook, right? would you mind updating the WIs on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-une-applications ?
[08:25] <didrocks> pitti: ok, we will do the same for Tomboy
[08:25] <didrocks> doing it now
[08:26] <pitti> oh, that too?
[08:26] <pitti> didrocks: then netbook is basically ubuntu + extra packages
[08:26] <pitti> IOW, they'll overflow
[08:26] <didrocks> pitti: hum, we can do in two steps maybe? first add OOo and then, see the remaining space?
[08:27] <pitti> didrocks: *nod*
[08:27] <didrocks> pitti: also, removing gnumeric and abiword
[08:27] <pitti> right
[08:27] <didrocks> and redemote them :)
[08:28] <didrocks> pitti: do you want me to change the seed and your pull my branch or do you want to do it directly?
[08:28] <pitti> didrocks: as you prefer; you can also tell me what to change
[08:28] <didrocks> pitti: I'll try to edit the seed and push the branch somewhere
[08:29] <pitti> didrocks: as a matter of exercise, feel free to patch it yourself and either mail me a bzr bundle or push a branch
[08:29] <didrocks> right :)
[08:33] <didrocks> (hum, wiki.ubuntu.com isn't reachable)
[08:37] <pitti> Riddell: Kubuntu exclusively uses https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo/Lucid, right? currently that's only represented on http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team.html, mashed with a lot of other specs, which makes it much less useful for both canonical desktop team and Kubuntu; do you want me to set up a separate report for Kubuntu?
[08:37] <Riddell> pitti: yes that's right.  and yes that would make it much easier to read
[08:38] <Riddell> asac: finally got approval for KDE patches to firefox, care to review? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~jr/firefox/firefox-3.6.head/+merge/19580
[08:42] <didrocks> pitti: ~didrocks/+junk/netbook.lucid
[08:43] <pitti> $ bzr merge lp:~didrocks/+junk/netbook.lucid
[08:43] <pitti> Nothing to do.
[08:43] <pitti> did you push?
[08:43] <Amaranth> hmm, nothing obvious seems to cause compiz cpu usage
[08:43] <didrocks> pitti: right, I just pushed, let me check
[08:44] <Amaranth> when I cut it down to literally the bare essentials the cpu usage went away
[08:44] <pitti> Amaranth: so it's mostly spent on xml parsing, plugin loading, etc?
[08:44] <didrocks> pitti: I guess LP hasn't scanned it yet: https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~didrocks/+junk/netbook.lucid
[08:44] <Amaranth> but when I cut out animation, regex, scaleaddon, dbus, etc it only puts a dent in the CPU usage, it does not get rid of it
[08:45] <didrocks> pitti: because I bet you don't have my last commit :)
[08:45] <Amaranth> I thought for sure it was going to be animation or regex
[08:45] <Amaranth> pitti: it may be ccp itself now that I think about it
[08:46] <Amaranth> none of the other plugins I have loaded seem like they would do all that much
[08:46] <Amaranth> except perhaps workarounds and session
[08:47] <Amaranth> I'll have to look more tomorrow
[08:48]  * Amaranth goes to bed
[08:48] <pitti> Amaranth: good night!
[08:49] <Amaranth> one fun thing I realized: we have no reason to use the animation plugin anymore
[08:49]  * Amaranth goes to bed for real
[08:54] <Amaranth> hehe, guess not
[08:54] <Amaranth> http://i.imgur.com/tgbPF.png <--no CPU usage!
[08:55] <Amaranth> well, a little sliver
[08:55] <Amaranth> (that's my super hacked setup)
[08:57] <mvo> Amaranth: have you seen the profiling patch in debian/patches (in the ubuntu compiz branch?)
[08:58] <Amaranth> yeah, it didn't seem to point to anything
[08:58] <Amaranth> keybuk also gave me some tool to use to track function call usage and time but I forgot it
[08:59] <Amaranth> I think next will be to replace compiz with a shell script that calls compiz for real with that tool so I can profile a boot
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:03] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[09:03] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning seb128
[09:03] <seb128> hey pitti
[09:03] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti
[09:04] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I will tell you in a bit ;-)
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i can't upload gnome-user-share any more :(
[09:04] <seb128> chrisccoulson, blocked nose and no coffee yet, let's see how it is in half an hour ;-)
[09:04] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson and seb128 :)
[09:04] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you need some sponsoring?
[09:04] <seb128> lut pitti didrocks
[09:04] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - you definately need some coffee then ;)
[09:04] <didrocks> seb128: welcome to the blocked nose family :-)
[09:05] <seb128> indeed!
[09:05] <pitti> argh, plague is spreading in France?
[09:05] <seb128> didrocks, how do you feel today? got a cold too then?
[09:05] <didrocks> seb128: right, and some headaches in the morning, but it's better now
[09:05] <didrocks> pitti: heh, it seems that, yeah ;)
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i put gnome-user-share in bzr, with some preliminary changes (I've added the autostart delay, and made it not possible to enable the webdav sharing checkbox when apache is not installed)
[09:06] <didrocks> there is "freeze" in feature freeze :)
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> i also changed a default gconf key to enable notifications when bluetooth push is enabled and you receive a file
[09:06] <seb128> chrisccoulson, sounds a good start, I can upload that so we get the rebuild for langpacks too
[09:06] <chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
[09:06] <pitti> didrocks: great job on your WIs! so your only outstanding one is the upgrade, which (as discussed earlier) is sort of dropped, right?
[09:07] <didrocks> pitti: exactly, I just changed the status and add a comment
[09:07] <didrocks> pitti: and thanks ;)
[09:09] <seb128> pitti, oh, you decided to drop the upgrade one?
[09:09] <pitti> seb128: well, s/decided/didn't find a way to make it work/
[09:09] <pitti> ideas appreciated
[09:10] <seb128> out of doing something hacking to update-* I've no good idea sorry
[09:10] <pitti> right
[09:11] <pitti> it would be a ton of work for only very little benefit
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> do we actually know what the benefit would be? (ie, i assume BG caching still works, but it does not get profiled by ureadahead)
[09:17] <pitti> right
[09:18] <pitti> ureadahead would read the large image in vain, and g-s-d needs to re-read the cache
[09:20] <pitti> didrocks: please only seed writer and calc; the rest pulls in too much java
[09:21] <pitti> didrocks: oh, impress doesn't pull in java as well?
[09:21] <pitti> didrocks: ok, let's try this then
[09:21] <pitti> didrocks: committed
[09:24] <didrocks> pitti: impress is still needed and pulls java right. Let's see with that size and I'll have a look tomorrow at the CD size
[09:24] <didrocks> pitti: thanks
[09:50] <pitti> tseliot: your two plymouth WIs on https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-boot-experience: do they look realistic to land this week still? or should we move them to beta-1?
[09:51] <seb128> pitti, so I guess we need to decide now on gnome-keyring
[09:51] <seb128> who has been testing the ppa update?
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> i've not had a chance to try it yet
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> have you had any issues with it?
[09:52] <pitti> argh, need to do that still
[09:52] <seb128> just mission control failing on first run
[09:52] <seb128> but there is a patch in bugzilla for that I need to apply
[09:52] <seb128> otherwise seahorse, empathy, ssh, etc works fine
[09:56]  * pitti upgrades to PPA
[09:59] <om26er> kenvandine, can I have a minute please, gwibber 2.29.90 is showing 2.29.1 in about window. I was told to ping you instead of opening a bug report.
[10:01] <seb128> om26er, he's probably sleeping by now
[10:02] <om26er> seb128, ah. ok thanks
[10:08] <baptistemm> hello
[10:21] <pitti> seb128: just testing g-k, which seems to work with evo, empathy, and ssh
[10:21] <pitti> just now X keeps freezing
[10:21] <seb128> uninstall plymouth?
[10:21] <pitti> I already disabled that
[10:21] <seb128> I would be susprised if it was due to g-k
[10:22] <pitti> right
[10:22] <pitti> see #u-devel
[10:22] <seb128> how did you disable plymouth?
[10:22] <pitti> boot without "splash"
[10:22] <pitti> well, disable the graphic bits
[10:22] <pitti> that helps for me to get X up properly
[10:30] <tseliot> pitti: this week?
[10:30] <pitti> tseliot: well, "alpha-3" is basically "this week", yes
[10:30] <pitti> Monday still, too
[10:31] <tseliot> pitti: "support for 16 colours" won't make it in time for sure
[10:31] <pitti> tseliot: is that important?
[10:31] <tseliot> pitti: only if you want a bootsplash with non-kms drivers
[10:31] <tseliot> other than the text plugin
[10:31] <pitti> ah, for that
[10:31] <tseliot> yep
[10:32] <pitti> tseliot: "new plymouht boot theme", is that artwork, or code changes?
[10:32] <tseliot> pitti: the design team gave me the artwork but I'm changing code as the theme is a program
[10:32] <pitti> tseliot: right, but behaviourally it's still "artwork"
[10:33] <pitti> tseliot: I'm interested in how regression prone it will be
[10:33] <pitti> if it's just different "putPixel()" calls (on a very abstract level), that should be fine for beta-1
[10:33] <tseliot> pitti: it should be much simpler than it used to be
[10:33] <pitti> if it's "change the boot order, introduce a menu", etc., that's intrusive
[10:34] <tseliot> pitti: with the scripting language that I'm using I'm operating on a very abstract level, as you said
[10:34] <tseliot> i.e. no memory leaks, etc.
[10:35] <tseliot> I'm almost done and I'll try to complete it by Monday
[10:36] <pitti> tseliot: ok, thanks
[10:36] <tseliot> np
[10:36] <pitti> tseliot: so I'll keep the artwork for a3, and move the 16 colors to beta-1?
[10:37] <pitti> then we can still drop it altogether if it's considered too much work/intrusive
[10:37] <tseliot> pitti: yes, that would be wise. But there's no need to drop it completely
[10:37] <tseliot> beta-1 should be fine
[10:37] <pitti> thanks, done
[10:38] <tseliot> thanks
[10:42] <seb128> re
[10:43] <seb128> got disconnected
[10:43] <seb128> pitti, did you get what I was writting about uninstalling plymouth rather than changing splash option?
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: no, I didn't
[10:43] <pitti> seb128: slangasek just pointed out bug 518352
 pitti, that didn't fix the plymouth crashes for people there
[10:43] <pitti> so "nosplash" apparnetly doesn't work very well
[10:43] <seb128>  pitti, you have to apt-get remove plymouth
[10:43] <seb128>  don't ask why I don't know
[10:43] <seb128>  pitti, I think without splash you still get plymouth used
[10:43] <seb128>  but in text mode or something
[10:43] <pitti> right
[10:44] <pitti> seb128, didrocks: curious; I just tried disabling nautilus in UNE (just to see whether it's worth changing some initialization to lazy/deferred), and it seems to have no impact at all
[10:45] <didrocks> pitti: you mean, disabling at startup time?
[10:45] <pitti> right
[10:46] <didrocks> pitti: btw, from looking at the bg code and adding some debug, I noted that the "draw bg" function was called twice during the initialization
[10:46] <pitti> within g-s-d? or once from g-s-d and once from e. g. launcher or nautilus?
[10:46] <pitti> brb
[10:47] <didrocks> pitti: not, within libgnomedesktop. I assume there is one call from g-s-d and one from nautilus, but unsure (there is always a compiz output between the two calls)
[10:48] <asac> didrocks: already added ooo and tombox? please keep them !armel ;)
[10:48] <asac> (as they were before)
[10:48] <asac> tomboy
[10:48] <asac> thanks
[10:50] <didrocks> asac: I added OOo but didn't add it for armel
[10:51] <asac> great
[10:51] <didrocks> asac: we'll see tomorrow CD size to see if we can add tomoby on !armel :)
[11:21] <didrocks> rebooting server, brb
[11:38] <seb128> pitti, so what do you think for g-k?
[11:44] <pitti> seb128: (1) seems to work, (2) medium risk, low benefit
[11:44] <pitti> but on the plus side, consistency with the rest of gnome
[11:44] <seb128> consistency + maintained for something which is somewhat a security component
[11:44] <pitti> right
[11:45] <seb128> + uptodate platform
[11:45] <seb128> which is nice on a lts
[11:45] <pitti> I'm leaning towards taking it
[11:45] <pitti> but we need to watch out for regressions
[11:45] <pitti> seb128: what's your feeling?
[11:45] <seb128> - is that upstream will be busy soon apparently, waiting a children
[11:45] <seb128> but current version seems to work fine
[11:46] <seb128> pitti, I still lend toward doing it
[11:48] <pitti> bah, each time I want to generate a clean bootchart, plymouth is acting up
[12:20] <seb128> hum
[12:20] <seb128> could somebody who upgraded today look to the Version in /usr/lib/pkgconfig/libpulse-mainloop-glib.pc?
[12:25] <seb128> hum, bug #523716
[12:25] <seb128> TheMuso`, ^
[12:30] <fagan> mvo: http://twitpic.com/13xftx if you have installed a repo other than a ppa it doesnt have an icon in the software center
[12:31] <mvo> fagan: thanks, we need nice icons :)
[12:32] <fagan> mvo: True but I meant that the google repo doesnt have an icon
[12:33] <mvo> fagan: right, I wanted to say "sort-of known issues, we do not have a icon yet for "other" repositories"
[12:33] <fagan> Ah ok I just thought it was a small corner case that needed addressing
[12:54] <mvo> fagan: yeah, we need a icon for "other", than we will add it
[12:55] <fagan> mvo: good
[13:18] <kenvandine> pitti, rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store is still in NEW, can you help move it through?
[13:18] <kenvandine> good morning all :)
[13:19] <pitti> seb128, all: I just filed bug 523788 FYI; do you have the exact same symptoms? Want to confirm it?
[13:19] <pitti> hey kenvandine
[13:19] <pitti> kenvandine: can do
[13:19] <kenvandine> thx
[13:20] <pitti> oh, source new? didn't I accept it yesterday?
[13:20] <seb128> pitti, I think you didn't no
[13:20] <seb128> pitti, bug confirmed
[13:21] <pitti> so it's not just me then?
[13:21] <seb128> the plymouth issue?
[13:21] <pitti> right
[13:21] <pitti> I get it 1/10 cases with standard lucid
[13:21] <seb128> I've not tried this week but that's exactly what I described to slangasek and Keybuk one week ago
[13:21] <pitti> and 100% with not starting cups
[13:21] <seb128> I get it 75% of the time on my d630
[13:22] <pitti> kenvandine: done
[13:22] <pitti> seb128: same here
[13:22] <kenvandine> thx!
[13:22] <seb128> brb trying gtk update
[13:27] <seb128> re
[13:27] <seb128> kenvandine, csd in lucid now btw
[13:27] <seb128> or building rather
[13:27] <kenvandine> woot
[13:27]  * kenvandine hopes it doesn't explode :)
[13:27] <seb128> good that I tested
[13:28] <seb128> it made gnome-panel not start with french locale
[13:28] <kenvandine> i saw that
[13:28] <seb128> the same issue I had when I tried some months ago
[13:28] <seb128> you guys lack non english testers ;-)
[13:28] <kenvandine> bratsche was loving the french last night :)
[13:28] <kenvandine> seb128, we have you!
[13:29]  * kenvandine waits for the bug reports :)
[13:29] <seb128> lol
[13:29] <seb128> I've already one
[13:29] <kenvandine> i think there are still bugs
[13:29] <kenvandine> there are always bugs
[13:29] <seb128> nautilus icons are grey squares in dnd
[13:29] <kenvandine> i noticed last night f-spot rendering weirdness
[13:53] <tgpraveen12> there is an the option of sending annonymous usage statistics.
[13:53] <tgpraveen12> where are these stats available? i want to see em
[13:53] <pitti> tgpraveen12: do you mean http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ ?
[13:56] <kenvandine> pitti, rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store is binary NEW, mind poking it again?
[13:56] <kenvandine> pitti, sorry to nag... they are trying to get it to a point they can get some people testing it :)
[13:57] <tgpraveen12> pitti: what about the information from system->admin->system testing
[13:57] <kenvandine> seb128, wow cody was up late fixing the fr_FR problem in csd
[13:58] <seb128> kenvandine, yeah, we crossed this morning my time and I overslept
[13:58] <kenvandine> haha
[13:58] <pitti> kenvandine: sure
[13:58] <kenvandine> thx pitti
[13:58] <pitti> I just fixed the bug in cups which caused udev-configure-printer to be needlessly spawned 10 times
[13:59] <pitti> another 2 s I/O block gone from bootcharts
[13:59] <seb128> waouh
[13:59] <seb128> 8 seconds now? ;-)
[13:59] <pitti> nah, no measurable difference for total time
[14:00] <seb128> btw dell rocks
[14:00] <seb128> got my mini back today
[14:00] <pitti> the good thing is now that the big solid CPU block now consistently ends at 10.0 s
[14:00] <pitti> seb128: oooh
[14:00] <pitti> and afterwards there are just a few spikes
[14:00] <mvo> !
[14:00]  * pitti sees seb128 crave "myyyyyy precccciousssss!"
[14:01] <seb128> hehe
[14:01] <pitti> seb128: did they repair it, or sent a replacement?
[14:03] <seb128> repair apparently
[14:03] <seb128> it had not distinctive mark so I can't say for sure but it's not a new one
[14:03] <tgpraveen12> hmm found it at http://hwdb.ubuntu.com . unfortunately it is of no use
[14:03] <seb128> and they put a paper saying they changed the mb and the ram
[14:04] <asac> Riddell: where did you get permission?
[14:04] <asac> i didnt get a CC
[14:06] <didrocks> sweet, seb128's bootcharts will be back :)
[14:06] <tgpraveen12> and none of the links on the page work :-(
[14:07] <pitti> chrisccoulson: did you ever happen to have a look why gnome-session needs .5 seconds (without 100% cpu) to start the autostart files?
[14:07] <pitti> oh, at least half of it is gconf apparently
[14:08] <pitti> gosh, I really want to use this 1 s CPU time
[14:12] <Riddell> asac: rick talked to mconnor
[14:20] <asac> ok i will check with rick
[14:21] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti - yes, about 200ms is reading autostart files on the mini
[14:22] <pitti> chrisccoulson: and the rest is gconf startup?
[14:23] <chrisccoulson> pitti - there's a breakdown on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/StartupSpeed , although that's slightly out of date now
[14:23] <chrisccoulson> it's actually 50ms for the autostart files on the mini
[14:23] <chrisccoulson> it was 200ms on my rotary disk
[14:24] <chrisccoulson> the 150ms delay for starting upower is not there now either
[14:24] <chrisccoulson> bbiab, another meeting to go too now
[14:26] <pitti> seb128: oh, cups fix seems to win .1 s
[14:28] <pitti> argh, I hit the "warp 10 barrier" again
[14:28] <pitti> removing xdg-user-dirs autostart breaks plymouth again
[14:29] <kenvandine> seb128, pitti: did either of you add the music store rb plugin to the seed?
[14:29] <pitti> seb128 did
[14:29]  * kenvandine doesn't know how to check that himself
[14:29] <kenvandine> ok
[14:29] <kenvandine> cool
[14:29] <kenvandine> shouldn't that be in the ubuntu-meta package?
[14:30] <pitti> kenvandine: it won't appear there until the package is in main
[14:30] <kenvandine> ok
[14:30] <seb128> I did the vcs change
[14:30] <seb128> I didn't refresh and upload the package though
[14:30] <pitti> seb128: that wouldn't be of use, since it won't catch universe packages
[14:30] <pitti> kenvandine: yesterday you told me to hold back, because it's not working yet
[14:30] <seb128> right
[14:31] <pitti> so I sent it to universe
[14:31] <kenvandine> oh... i didn't mean that...
[14:31] <kenvandine> but ok :)
[14:31] <kenvandine> as long as we get it in by alpha-3
[14:31] <kenvandine> it doesn't break, just displays you a under construction page
[14:31] <kenvandine> unless you know the magic ENV variables
[14:32] <kenvandine> pitti, how about gwibber, can we get that added to the seed?
[14:32] <pitti> kenvandine: did you see my responses to the MIR?
[14:32] <kenvandine> oh... no
[14:32] <pitti> that was a bit .. scary
[14:32] <kenvandine> pitti, did you look at the autostart file?
[14:32] <kenvandine> it is disabled
[14:33] <pitti> kenvandine: ah, ok; ignore that bit then
[14:33] <kenvandine> :)
[14:33] <pitti> however, why ship a disabled autostart file?
[14:33] <kenvandine> it is there so you can just check the box :)
[14:33] <kenvandine> it shows in the list, just unchecked
[14:33] <pitti> ah, gconf option "start with session"?
[14:33] <kenvandine> makes it easier
[14:33] <pitti> I see; sounds fine
[14:34] <kenvandine> ok, i have no strong opinions on it... but it shouldn't hurt startup time :)
[14:34]  * kenvandine comments on the bug
[14:34] <pitti> right, that bit is fine then
[14:35] <kenvandine> cool
[14:36] <kenvandine> i changed it to new again :)
[14:36] <kenvandine> thx
[14:39] <pitti> kenvandine: that was just one third of the problem, though; responded again
[14:39] <kenvandine> oh
[14:40]  * kenvandine read it all this time
[14:40] <kenvandine> well indicator-me really needs to depend on it... or get an overhaul
[14:40] <kenvandine> and
[14:40] <kenvandine> most of those bugs should get closed, they are very old
[14:41] <seb128> what should the indicator depends on?
[14:41] <kenvandine> and gwibber has effectively be re-written twice since many of them were filed
[14:41] <kenvandine> indicator-me should depend on gwibber
[14:41] <kenvandine> since it relies on gwibber for posting
[14:41] <seb128> I though we didn't want gwibber in the default installation for lucid?
[14:41] <kenvandine> unless they finish the features needed to make it more dynamic
[14:41] <kenvandine> which they say they will
[14:41] <kenvandine> we did
[14:41] <pitti> kenvandine: shouldn't it rather hide the input box if gwibber is not installed?
[14:42] <kenvandine> it was a pretty important deliverable for lucid
[14:42] <kenvandine> yes
[14:42] <kenvandine> that is the plan
[14:42] <seb128> I had the impression at the sprint that it was on by default for une
[14:42] <pitti> ok
[14:42] <kenvandine> i hope that is in today's upload
[14:42] <seb128> and not for lucid desktop
[14:42] <pitti> a dependency from the indicator sounds wrong
[14:42] <seb128> yes it does
[14:42] <seb128> there is many people not using microbloging
[14:42] <kenvandine> well, it should be a recommends
[14:42] <pitti> seb128: it's seeded on netbook only ATM
[14:42] <kenvandine> but it was an important goal for lucid
[14:42] <kenvandine> to include it
[14:43] <pitti> kenvandine: well, if if gets included, it should be seeded
[14:43] <seb128> right, I just though it good cut as many others
[14:43] <pitti> not made a recommends of a random package
[14:43] <seb128> ie too much to do
[14:43] <kenvandine> nobody mentioned cutting it to me :)
[14:43] <seb128> ok, I got the wrong impression
[14:43] <kenvandine> i was told it was my top priority :)
[14:43] <pitti> kenvandine: so, that was sort of my question
[14:43] <seb128> I don't follow that up closely ;-)
[14:43] <pitti> kenvandine: if it's a high lucid goal, then we can seed it, but someone needs to look at it in LTS
[14:44] <pitti> if we don't have that resource, then we can't have it in main
[14:44] <seb128> do we have space for it right now?
[14:44] <kenvandine> yeah, we will need to make sure we follow the bugs
[14:44] <kenvandine> i assume that will be my responsiblity :)
[14:44] <pitti> seb128: its heavy dependencies are another problem (also mentioned in the MIR), but separate from the bug situation
[14:44] <rickspencer3> ccheney, hi
[14:44] <jcastro> kklimonda, great job on getting transmission 1.90 in!
[14:45] <pitti> hi rickspencer3
[14:45] <rickspencer3> hi pitti
[14:45] <kklimonda> jcastro: thanks. chrisccoulson has helped too :)
[14:46] <jcastro> woo team!
[14:46] <pitti> kenvandine: well, yes, but this looks like it'd take half of your time?
[14:46] <kenvandine> pitti, i am going to look at splitting those docs out
[14:46] <kenvandine> pitti, we need to go through and expire or just close most of those bugs
[14:46] <kenvandine> and we need to get more folks involved in triaging them
[14:46] <pitti> kenvandine: we also have all these new indicators to care for, they are still buggy and need fixing/triaging
[14:46] <kenvandine> yeah
[14:46] <kenvandine> i know
[14:46] <pitti> and csd, and all that new stuff
[14:47] <pitti> I'm just afraid that we are overloading ourselves
[14:47] <kenvandine> yeah... for an LTS
[14:47] <seb128> +1
[14:47] <pitti> and at the current pace the current gwibber code will be horribly outdated in a year or so
[14:47] <seb128> reviewing and maintaining all the appindicator changes will be a time sink
[14:47] <pitti> yes, I don't think upstream will take them anytime soon
[14:48] <kenvandine> jcastro will have fun with that :)
[14:49] <seb128> well jcastro does what he can
[14:49] <kenvandine> it's a hard job
[14:49] <seb128> but the actual work fixing and updating those will be ours
[14:49] <seb128> right
[14:49] <seb128> that's why I expect many upstream will not take those this cycle
[14:50] <seb128> which means we will have to jungle with that extra workload for a while
[14:50] <jcastro> well, there's no time crunch for fixing them to get accepted upstream since 2.30 is basically finished
[14:50] <seb128> jcastro, well, we want them in lucid
[14:51] <jcastro> right, of course
[14:51] <seb128> which means all the workload is down on the desktop team for lucid
[14:51] <rickspencer3> well, considering that Gwibber is required by the Me Menu, what do you suggest seb128?
[14:51] <seb128> ie we will have to review those, distro patch them, fix them and update them
[14:51] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, hopefully DX will have that stuff so it is "optional"
[14:51] <seb128> rickspencer3, I was under the impression that having the entry displayed when gwibber is not installed is a bug and would be fixed for lucid
[14:52] <rickspencer3> seb128, but Gwibber *should* be installed
[14:52] <pitti> rickspencer3: it really shouldn't be required
[14:52] <seb128> or when gwibber is installed but you don't have microblogging accounts
[14:52] <rickspencer3> I suppose someone could remove it
[14:52] <seb128> well I have it
[14:52] <seb128> I read facebook
[14:52] <pitti> rickspencer3: it must be possible to remove gwibber without breaking the me-menu
[14:52] <didrocks> seb128: +1 :)
[14:52] <seb128> but I never used microblogging
[14:52] <seb128> why should I have this entry which is of no use for me?
[14:52] <rickspencer3> pitti, it hardly breaks it
[14:52] <pitti> rickspencer3: i. e. it should be explicitly seeded as a top-level feature, not be a dependency
[14:52] <seb128> it will confuse users rather being useful
[14:52] <pitti> rickspencer3: exactly; that's why it's not a dependency
[14:53] <rickspencer3> but I do think it would be better if the Me Menu had some way to show that it wasn't configured to work
[14:53] <pitti> but anyway, seed vs. dependency is a tiny technical detail
[14:53] <kenvandine> seb128, right... tedg is that magic infrastructure for handling that stuff in today's upload?
[14:53] <pitti> rickspencer3: right, it should hide the entry field
[14:53] <rickspencer3> but that seems like a minor bug level task
[14:53] <pitti> yes
[14:53] <seb128> yes
[14:53] <seb128> what was the discussion about again?
[14:54] <seb128> I think I lost track there
[14:54] <rickspencer3> ok, I was commenting more on the concerns about maintaining Gwibber
[14:54] <pitti> rickspencer3: the main problem that I see here is that supporting gwibber is a huge task, which we don't have manpower for
[14:54] <tgpraveen12> kenvandine: is the me menu also supposed to set the chat status text in empathy ?
[14:54] <pitti> well, we could seed it and then just let it bitrot in LTS
[14:54] <pitti> but then it can just as well stay in universe
[14:54] <kenvandine> tgpraveen12, no
[14:54] <asac> bitrot in LTS sounds bad without knowing the details ;)
[14:54] <rickspencer3> no
[14:55] <kenvandine> tgpraveen12, and i think the design team will have a few UI enhancements to make it more obvious
[14:55] <rickspencer3> Gwibber is an important contribution, we will have to maintain it
[14:55] <asac> ack
[14:55] <tgpraveen12> any specific reason why? it sure would be helpful as the status can already be set from there (busy,available etc)
[14:55] <rickspencer3> however, the bugs that it will accrue will not be of the nature of eating your data
[14:55] <rickspencer3> crashing your hardrive, etc...
[14:55] <pitti> rickspencer3: but we can't sell it as a new feature with 50 open crasher bugs
[14:55] <rickspencer3> so I don't expect we will get critical bugs
[14:55] <pitti> (yes, I just got told that many of them are probably outdated)
[14:55] <rickspencer3> it has 50 open crashers atm
[14:56] <kenvandine> tgpraveen12, i think there are some plans for that in lucid+1
[14:56] <rickspencer3> right, so those need to be fixed
[14:56] <rickspencer3> the only way through is forward at this point
[14:56] <seb128> which bring us back to the issue that we have too much to fix for our manpower right now
[14:56] <kenvandine> tgpraveen12, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeMenu
[14:57] <rickspencer3> seb128, but we can't say that our position is that we won't create any innovative features, and in any case, it's too late for that discussion
[14:57] <kenvandine> seb128, we need to go through and mark all the old bugs as incomplete, or invalid
[14:57] <pitti> gwibber needs fixing, indicators need fixing, csd will probably need more love as well, we still need to get faster by .8 s, and we are also supposed to fix many bugs in existing stuff
[14:57] <kenvandine> since most of them are so old they aren't really valid anymore
[14:57] <rickspencer3> the question is not "should we support Gwibber", it's "How will we support Gwibber"
[14:57] <asac> what is coming for gwibber? i tried it yesterday and it felt quite incomplete feature wise
[14:57] <pitti> rickspencer3: ok, that at least settles the MIR question then
[14:57] <seb128> well we are not speaking about removing gwibber
[14:57] <rickspencer3> look
[14:57] <seb128> just about installing it by default or not
[14:57] <rickspencer3> we have bugs
[14:57] <kenvandine> asac, incomplete?
[14:57] <rickspencer3> we have time
[14:57] <rickspencer3> no reason to panic
[14:57] <asac> kenvandine: lots of features gone from what we had in karmic. yes.
[14:57] <kenvandine> what kind of features?
[14:57] <rickspencer3> we just prioritize the bug and fix them in priority order until we ship as per usual
[14:58] <seb128> we have too many bugs seeing the timeframe for lucid and our team ressources
[14:58] <seb128> that's not going to work well
[14:58] <rickspencer3> seb128, I understand your viewpoint on that
[14:58] <seb128> that's the first cycle since warty I've the feeling we are not on position to get the quality we want
[14:58] <rickspencer3> my point is that we have some time, and we have a system
[14:58] <kenvandine> asac, services supported?
[14:58] <asac> kenvandine: like clicking on !tags for identica ... and a bunch of others that came in my way (just reading part ... havent tried sending)
[14:58] <seb128> we have too much on our plates there
[14:58] <rickspencer3> first, everyone stop creating new features, it's feature freeze
[14:59] <asac> kenvandine: also Home + Messages are really redundant (the same) for me now
[14:59] <rickspencer3> now we fix bugs from here on out
[14:59] <kenvandine> asac, oh groups in identi.ca? that might be a bug
[14:59] <seb128> well it's better to be realistic on what we can do and organize work according to that
[14:59] <asac> kenvandine: sure its a missing feature (maybe just UI)
[14:59] <seb128> rather than opt for a non realistic strategy to admit in one month that it will not work because we don't have the manpower to do it
[14:59] <pitti> kenvandine, rickspencer3: ok, updated the MIR, just leaves the heavy dependency problem now (but that should be easy to fix)
[14:59] <asac> kenvandine: also twitter doesnt work at all for me ;) (but thats obviously not a feature missing i hope
[15:00] <kenvandine> asac, that could be a ca-certificates bug
[15:00] <asac> kenvandine: i will run it today again and write down what i find missing
[15:00] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok, so we fix bug, what do we do about the stack of applications which are going to be ported to appindicators
[15:00] <rickspencer3> rather than list the bugs here in a haphazzard manner, I suggest that kenvandine gives the bug list a good going over
[15:00] <kenvandine> asac, thx
[15:00] <asac> just took a brief look yesterday
[15:00] <seb128> rickspencer3, we will need to review those changes, get them in shape, ship those and maintain them for there
[15:00] <rickspencer3> (for Gwibber)
[15:00] <rickspencer3> seb128, right
[15:00] <rickspencer3> three things:
[15:01] <rickspencer3> 1. find and fix the most important bugs
[15:01] <rickspencer3> 2. ensure a smooth update experience
[15:01] <rickspencer3> 3. integrate the latest and greatest from Dx and OLS
[15:01] <rickspencer3>  
[15:01] <rickspencer3> we've done this before
[15:01] <pitti> rickspencer3: where in your list is "keep adding more bugs"? (SCNR)
[15:01] <rickspencer3> there is no reason to panic, the distro is in good shape, and we are more than 2 months from shipping
[15:02] <seb128> hum, I disagree but *shrug*
[15:02] <rickspencer3> pitti, this is why I keep saying "stop doing blueprint work!"
[15:02]  * pitti apologizes for being in a sarcastic mood
[15:02] <seb128> no need to panic
[15:02] <seb128> but it doesn't seem realistic
[15:02] <rickspencer3> seb128, we go through this every release
[15:02] <seb128> the indicators alone will takes weeks of work to get in
[15:02] <pitti> we didn't add a million new features in hardy
[15:03] <seb128> rickspencer3, well, usually I'm confident with the goals and the capacity we have to deal with those
[15:03] <seb128> I'm not there
[15:03] <pitti> well, we'll get some new employees soon, so that should help quite a bit
[15:03] <seb128> and I think it's probably the first time I feel we are so crushed since warty
[15:03] <rickspencer3> seb128, ok, noted
[15:04] <seb128> sorry to bring that
[15:04] <seb128> I'm back to doing things that need to be done in order
[15:04] <seb128> let's see how it goes ;-)
[15:04] <seb128> but I predict we will have difficult time to squeeze all we want in in that timeframe
[15:04] <rickspencer3> what time frame?
[15:04] <seb128> lucid
[15:04] <rickspencer3> between now and release?
[15:04] <pitti> well, we can squeeze it in, it just takes away time for bug fixing
[15:04] <seb128> yes
[15:05] <seb128> pitti, getting those +35 appindicator patches in will takes week alone
[15:05] <rickspencer3> what's left except bug fixing, integrating app indicators, Dx, and OLS stuff
[15:05] <seb128> without having those tested or debugged
[15:05] <asac> just my 2c: the current lucid desktop i have feels quite good ... not sure what is planned to land late, but for an outsider it feels not that bad
[15:05] <pitti> seb128: I don't think we'll take them all
[15:05] <pitti> seb128: we should get the existing ones working well
[15:05] <seb128> pitti, we have like 5 of those
[15:05] <rickspencer3> and lots of them are just universe apps
[15:05] <jcastro> we're going to have about 4 more
[15:05] <pitti> hang on
[15:05] <jcastro> there's no one barely working on the universe ones
[15:05] <pitti> are we actually committing to applying them _all_??
[15:06] <seb128> pitti, the lucid list has 19 + universe extra ones
[15:06] <pitti> no way
[15:06] <seb128> pitti, I think the spec has 19 for lucid
[15:06] <seb128> + extra ones are bonus
[15:06] <pitti> well, it's FF now
[15:06] <pitti> so what isn't in now needs serious justification anyway
[15:06] <seb128> isn't that
[15:06] <seb128>  3. integrate the latest and greatest from Dx and OLS
[15:06] <seb128> ?
[15:06] <pitti> there's certainly enough time to fix the g-p-m one
[15:06] <jcastro> we just really need brasero, gnome-bt, vino, gdu, and gpm fixed
[15:07] <seb128> I though it was one of the lucid goal to have default install ported to those
[15:07] <seb128> jcastro, + g-s-d I guess?
[15:07] <rickspencer3> any app indicator that isn't ready to ship simply won't ship
[15:07] <jcastro> those are the major ones, the others are in main but not on the disc and I don't think we should worry about them
[15:07] <jcastro> seb128, oh right, and that one
[15:07] <pitti> seb128: well, perhaps, but I'm not ready to willfully break working software; these need to be properly tested and be ready
[15:07] <baptistemm> to whom can I ask more permission to modify bug in lauchpad ?
[15:07] <pitti> i. e. exactly what the gpm patch was *not*
[15:07] <pitti> rickspencer3: right, that was how I believed how it should work
[15:08] <seb128> pitti, rickspencer3: so maybe part of my "we have too much to do" is that I though we commited to get those 19 apps ported in lucid
[15:08]  * pitti sees a big *phew* from seb128
[15:08] <rickspencer3> seb128, well, we want them ported, for sure, but we will ship the ones that are ship shape
[15:08] <seb128> pitti, ;-)
[15:08] <rickspencer3> hehe
[15:08] <rickspencer3> ok
[15:08] <seb128> rickspencer3, well I though have not ship shape was not an option
[15:08] <rickspencer3> personally, I am a bit more worried about OLS stuff landing
[15:08] <rickspencer3> U1 and music store being solid
[15:08] <pitti> let's get 5 in top shape, not 20 barely working
[15:09] <rickspencer3> sleep up this weekend kenvandine!
[15:09] <rickspencer3> pitti, ack
[15:09] <kenvandine> i plan too
[15:09] <kenvandine> :)
[15:09] <rickspencer3> we'll take the other 15 into Lucid + 1
[15:09] <jcastro> pitti, I think we can do that now that ted is unblocked and can fix the indicator bugs blocking brasero, gnome-bt, and vino
[15:09] <seb128> rickspencer3, pitti: pfiou, I feel better already ;-)
[15:09] <rickspencer3> seb128, maybe you need a day off tomorrow?
[15:09] <pitti> and before we take more we also ought to get an agreement with GNOME to bless the principle
[15:09] <rickspencer3> oh wait ;)
[15:09] <pitti> we can't sit on those forever
[15:09] <tgpraveen12> asac: will nm 0.8.1 be in lucid?
[15:09] <jcastro> after that it's just fixing gpm and doing gdu and gsd
[15:09]  * rickspencer3 visits canonicaladmin
[15:09]  * seb128 hugs rickspencer3
[15:10] <kenvandine> :)
[15:10] <asac> tgpraveen12: there isnt even a 0.8 final yet ;) (we are at rc4)
[15:10] <seb128> rickspencer3, hehe, right, I just need to convince my boss to accept it ;-)
[15:10] <rickspencer3> good news on the #1 front
[15:10]  * pitti -> back to (*#$(#*$# boot time
[15:10] <rickspencer3> I talked to marjo last night
[15:10] <rickspencer3> he said the that QA team will put effort into really scrubbing for the most important bugs
[15:11] <kenvandine> excellent
[15:11] <rickspencer3> so that you all have more time to fix bugs rather than triage them, etc...
[15:12] <seb128> rickspencer3, that's good news ;-)
[15:12] <pitti> \o/
[15:12] <rickspencer3> speaking of which, we have some "critical" bugs now
[15:13] <rickspencer3> is ccheney around? they seem to be assigned to him and on OOo
[15:13] <pitti> looking at qa.u.c.
[15:13] <pitti> A total of 5619 bug tasks were fixed during Karmic!
[15:13] <pitti> A total of 2085 bug tasks were fixed during Lucid!
[15:13] <pitti> so, some way to go for lucid still :)
[15:13] <pitti> but we are just after FF, so we didn't really _try_ yet
[15:13] <asac> we are not even at a3 ;)
[15:14] <kenvandine> yeah... and haven't even entered bug fix mode :)
[15:14] <pitti> seb128: hey, you are #1
[15:14]  * pitti pulls the gauntlet
[15:14] <seb128> pitti, hehe
[15:15] <seb128> pitti, stop slacking and try to catch with me :-p
[15:15]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[15:15] <pitti> You bet!
[15:15] <rickspencer3> next release we will not leave bug fixing mode, I think
[15:16] <rickspencer3> fewer work items in Lucid + 1 if I can talk you guys into it
[15:16] <pitti> rickspencer3: hm, 10.10 is a crack cycle, isn't it?
[15:16] <kenvandine> pitti, in theory it should be
[15:16] <kenvandine> :)
[15:16] <kenvandine> but i wonder what other crack we can introduce that we didn't add to lucid
[15:16]  * kenvandine ducks 
[15:16] <kenvandine> :-D
[15:17] <rickspencer3> pitti, the "crack"/"stable" cycle doesn't make sense to me
[15:17] <pitti> rickspencer3: well, it would if we'd stick to it :)
[15:17] <rickspencer3> I would rather we figure out how to make strong steady progress with innovation while keeping the quality high
[15:17] <pitti> it was an idea that came up some 1.5 years ago
[15:17] <rickspencer3> over a year, it's the same rate of change either way
[15:18] <rickspencer3> yeah, but I don't feel that it is working well
[15:18] <rickspencer3> seems to cause too much stress for us and our users
[15:18] <pitti> rickspencer3: e. g. in karmic we got a lot of new infrastructure: upstart, devicekit-*, halsectomy, etc.
[15:18] <rickspencer3> but now we have a rough estimate of work items per engineer that we can pull off
[15:18] <pitti> rickspencer3: and in lucid we stabilized that
[15:18] <pitti> or KMS
[15:18] <seb128> pitti, did we? (SCNR)
[15:19] <rickspencer3> so we can just meter that so we can have ample time for quality too
[15:19] <chrisccoulson> urgh, i'm only 14th on qa.u.c this cycle
[15:19] <pitti> seb128: well, at least KMS/udev/udisks/etc. are much better now, IMHO
[15:19] <chrisccoulson> look like i've got some catching up to do ;)
[15:19] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I assume you will start catching up in 2 weeks ;-)
[15:19] <pitti> of course we couldn't resist and again added lots of new crack to lucid, but landing the major changes of karmic in an LTS would have been plain mad
[15:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i need to go on a bug-fixing frenzy
[15:21] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: is anjuta horribly broken atm? I can't get it to save any of my settings
[15:22] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: strange, I'm the global page, not on the canonical desktop team one :)
[15:27] <pitti> rickspencer3: btw, I did some cleanup this morning, this is the current plan for beta-1: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
[15:28] <Riddell> asac: so do I get to upload firefox?
[15:28] <pitti> rickspencer3: the big one is obvioulsy DX/OLS integration, then some stragglers
[15:28] <pitti> rickspencer3: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gdmsetup is the big ? here
[15:29] <pitti> rickspencer3: it's a target of opportunity, and I just noticed that it has grossly overcounted WI
[15:29]  * pitti fixes
[15:29] <rickspencer3> pitti, why do we have *any* work items?
[15:29] <pitti> rickspencer3: desktop-lucid-dx-integration has 18
[15:29] <rickspencer3> even targets of opportunity seem like churn that make stabelization more difficult
[15:29] <rickspencer3> oh
[15:29] <jcastro> seb128, ok I just scrubbed through the list of app indicators, here's their status http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/379144/
[15:29] <rickspencer3> well, fair enough ;)
[15:29] <pitti> rickspencer3: the rest are things spilled over from a3, like finishing touches of a3 specs
[15:29] <jcastro> I think we can do those 8, and the rest are either done or won't make it.
[15:30] <rickspencer3> oh fudge
[15:30] <rickspencer3> pitti, is adding non-import editing to f-spot on that list?
[15:30] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes
[15:30] <rickspencer3> where?
[15:30] <rickspencer3> I see adding "edit in f-spot" to eog
[15:31] <rickspencer3> and a design review
[15:31] <pitti> rickspencer3: desktop-lucid-default-apps
[15:31] <seb128> jcastro, thanks
[15:31] <seb128> jcastro, what is gnome-cc? gnome-control-center?
[15:31] <pitti> rickspencer3: hm, where is that; I know that I saw it, hang on
[15:31] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - did you get a chance to look at g-u-s at all? I'm not sure if we need a FFe for the work on that now
[15:31] <pitti> rickspencer3: ah, it's still on the a3 chart
[15:31] <jcastro> seb128, the ones blocking on DX are mostly finished, they just need to fix the crasher and then test.
[15:31] <rickspencer3> ok
[15:31] <rickspencer3> I don't see that happening
[15:31] <rickspencer3> we need to get that done asap
[15:32] <seb128> chrisccoulson, don't worry about ffe for that, and not yet thanks for the reminder
[15:32] <rickspencer3> right after a3
[15:32] <seb128> rickspencer3, we got gtk csd in lucid today btw
[15:32] <rickspencer3> seb128, nice
[15:32] <rickspencer3> I don't expect *any* bug reports from that :/
[15:32] <chrisccoulson> pitti - do you know if there is any reason we can't have g-u-s in the ubuntu-desktop package set?
[15:32] <chrisccoulson> (so i can upload it again)
[15:33] <seb128> rickspencer3, too late, it breaks nautilus dnd icons already ;-)
[15:33] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I don't know; used/seeded by xubuntu, etc.?
[15:33] <seb128> rickspencer3, that was sarcastic right?
[15:33] <asac> Riddell: i will review and integrate
[15:33] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i don't think it is. it's only pulled in currently via gnome-bt, which is already in ubuntu-desktop
[15:34] <chrisccoulson> i don't think it's seeded by anyone else
[15:34] <pitti> chrisccoulson: that needs cjwatson to fix then, I'm afraid
[15:34] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks
[15:35] <rickspencer3> seb128, well, I would say "ironic", "sarcastic" is a bit more extreme
[15:35] <asac> Riddell: the patches dont have bugzilla bugs
[15:36] <asac> i need the exact reference where they were taking from
[15:36] <asac> bugzilla id + attachment id
[15:36] <Riddell> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=528510
[15:36] <seb128> rickspencer3, yeah sorry I picked the wrong word ;-)
[15:36] <rickspencer3> seb128, s;okay, I was just kidding, really
[15:36] <seb128> hehe
[15:36] <asac> Riddell: that doesnt help. there is no attachment there
[15:38] <asac> great. there is not even a single patch attached to all those bugs
[15:38] <asac> which bug gets addressed by firefox-kde.patch?
[15:38] <asac> or is that a multi-bug patch?
[15:41] <Riddell> asac: here's debfx, he's done the packaging of this
[15:42] <asac> debfx: where did you take the patches from?
[15:42] <asac> debfx: can we get doc on that?
[15:44] <debfx> asac: the patches are from http://gitorious.org/firefox-kde-opensuse/firefox-kde-opensuse/blobs/master/mozilla.patch
[15:44] <asac> debfx: thats our mozilla-kde.patch?
[15:44] <debfx> asac: though that patch is based on a patched firefox 3.5 source
[15:45] <asac> or all combined?
[15:45] <asac> sure
[15:45] <debfx> both combined
[15:48] <asac> debfx: what is this cp $(DEB_SRCDIR)/toolkit/content/widgets/dialog.xml $(DEB_SRCDIR)/toolkit/content/widgets/dialog-kde.xml ?
[15:49] <debfx> asac: dialog-kde.xml is copied so it can get patched
[15:50] <asac> kk
[15:51] <asac> debfx: was the rebase easy for 1.9.2?
[15:56] <debfx> asac: not too complicated
[15:57] <ccheney> rickspencer3: just saw you tried to call but call dropped when i tried to answer
[15:57] <asac> debfx: do you have the originals still? so we can produce a diff?
[15:57] <asac> would like to check if there is anything obvious
[15:58] <asac> debfx: if not, its ok. i can review the diff on its own i think
[16:00] <debfx> asac: which originals?
[16:01] <debfx> asac: my patches are still based on the one from firefox-kde gitorious
[16:03] <debfx> since firefox doesn't use system xulrunner anymore, we could cat both patches
[16:03] <pitti> seb128: during boot we are running both xdg-user-dirs-update and xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update; do we need both?
[16:04] <seb128> pitti, yes, it's -gtk running the other one
[16:04] <pitti> seb128: no, I mean we launch -gtk-update from /etc/xdg/autostart/user-dirs-update-gtk.desktop
[16:04] <pitti> and -update from /etc/X11/Xsession.d/60xdg-user-dirs-update
[16:04] <seb128> right, we launch one
[16:04] <seb128> hum
[16:04] <seb128> that seems wrong
[16:05] <pitti> and the Xsession.d is synchronously
[16:05] <seb128> that one can probably be dropped
[16:05] <pitti> user-dirs-update-gtk.desktop only runs on GNOME?
[16:05] <pitti> OnlyShowIn=GNOME;
[16:06] <didrocks> the one in Xsession.d is the one which handling the session
[16:06] <didrocks> handles*
[16:06] <seb128> didrocks, what session?
[16:06] <seb128> didrocks, it's gnome-session which handles the session ;-)
[16:06] <didrocks> seb128: add /etc/xdg/xdg-$GDMSESSION
[16:07] <seb128> ?
[16:07] <didrocks> seb128: I mean, the xdg path depending on chosen gdm session :)
[16:07] <seb128> ~$ cat /etc/X11/Xsession.d/60xdg-user-dirs-update
[16:07] <seb128> if [ -x /usr/bin/xdg-user-dirs-update ]; then
[16:07] <seb128> 	/usr/bin/xdg-user-dirs-update
[16:07] <seb128> fi
[16:07] <pitti> didrocks: I don't mean 60xdg_path-on-session
[16:07] <seb128> didrocks, ^ I'm confused
[16:07] <pitti> didrocks: I mean 60xdg-user-dirs-update
[16:07] <seb128> didrocks, what that has to do with gdm?
[16:07] <didrocks> oh sorry, I was thinking about 60xdg_path-on-session, indeed
[16:07] <pitti> 60xdg_path-on-session needs to stay of course
[16:08] <didrocks> seb128: sorry, pitti found the misunderstanding point :)
[16:09] <asac> debfx: you rebased ... rebasing can have bugs7forgotten hunks etc. anyway, nevermind for now
[16:15] <pitti> rickspencer3, seb128: I need to leave for today, we have a concert
[16:16] <rickspencer3> bye bye pitti
[16:16] <rickspencer3> break a leg
[16:16] <rickspencer3> (or maybe he's just attending the concert, not performing)
[16:16] <didrocks> enjoy pitti
[16:16] <seb128> pitti, enjoy
[16:17] <pitti> seb128: if you are bored, feel free to eliminate the extra xdg-update call :)
[16:17] <seb128> pitti, I doubt I will be bored
[16:17] <seb128> pitti, any opinion about gnome-keyring btw?
[16:17] <seb128> should I just upload?
[16:17] <seb128> let's discuss about it tomorrow
[16:17] <pitti> seb128: I'm fine with going ahead
[16:18] <seb128> I'm officially not working but will be one hour around in the morning
[16:18] <seb128> ok
[16:18] <seb128> let's see how tonight goes
[16:18] <seb128> pitti, enjoy your evening!
[16:19] <baptistemm> both xdg-user-dirs-update and xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update are necessary
[16:19] <baptistemm> yes I'm late
[16:19] <pitti> baptistemm: I thought -gtk-update would call -update?
[16:19] <baptistemm> hmmm ..
[16:20] <seb128> it does
[16:20] <baptistemm> I remember I did the initial packaging and both  were necessry
[16:21] <pitti> so maybe we can drop the extra call from -gtk-update
[16:21] <pitti> anyway, need to go
[16:21] <pitti> o/
[16:23] <kenvandine> later pitti
[16:23] <didrocks> baptistemm: well, you need it to build xdg-user-dirs-gtk, I'll have a look if it fetches it then in -gtk-update
[16:24] <tommy^m> hi guys, any chance we're going to see kernel-2.6.33 on karmic?
[16:24] <baptistemm> Alex is answering me of the necessity of run both or not
[16:24] <didrocks> baptistemm: thanks ;)
 baptistemm: xdg-user-dirs-update always run very early in the login
 xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update runs in gnome sessions at a later time
[16:25] <baptistemm>  xdg-user-dirs-update is generally run by the x startup scripts rather than the session
[16:26] <didrocks> right, but the question is: does xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update make an additional uneeded call to xdg-user-dirs-update?
[16:48] <Amaranth> hehe, seems we're booting too fast now :)
[16:50] <LaserJock> didrocks: around?
[16:50] <didrocks> LaserJock: yes :)
[16:50] <Amaranth> pitti, seb128: bug 523788 happens to me without plymouth, I think
[16:50] <LaserJock> didrocks: did you upload the latest netbook-launcher?
[16:50] <Amaranth> but as my boot is 20+ seconds it is very rare
[16:50] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, yesterday night
[16:51] <LaserJock> didrocks: I noticed that -efl is now Recommends, which means I get a bunch of new stuff to install :(
[16:51] <Amaranth> but I don't have plymouth installed anymore (thought it was the problem) and I'm pretty sure I got the problem at least once more while doing bootcharts last night
[16:51] <didrocks> LaserJock: yes, the idea is for people not having a 3D driver to get a fallback
[16:51] <LaserJock> didrocks: I kind of thought it would go the other way around
[16:51] <didrocks> LaserJock: but as it's just a Recommends and not a depends, you can still remove it
[16:52] <seb128> re
[16:52] <seb128> did somebody ping me?
[16:52] <seb128> xchat-gnome crashed
[16:52] <didrocks> seb128: no, nothing
[16:52] <seb128> ok weird
[16:52] <seb128> the message indicator has a line for this channel
[16:52] <seb128> and when I clicked on it xchat-gnome crashed
[16:53] <LaserJock> didrocks: so -efl is for people without 3D drivers?
[16:53] <Amaranth> seb128: yes
[16:53] <didrocks> it reminds me a bug I had two weeks ago in accepting people in empathy
[16:53] <didrocks> seb128: oopps
[16:53] <didrocks> seb128: there is Amaranth
[16:53] <didrocks> 17:50:34      Amaranth | pitti, seb128: bug 523788 happens to me without plymouth, I think                                                                                                                                 │ halfline
[16:53] <Nafai> seb128, I reported this a bit ago: bug #520568
[16:53] <Amaranth> seb128: I was saying bug 523788 happens to me without plymouth, I think
[16:54] <Amaranth> eep
[16:54] <didrocks> LaserJock: exactly
[16:54] <seb128> Nafai, thanks
[16:54] <Nafai> np
[16:54] <seb128> Amaranth, are you sure?
[16:54] <seb128> Amaranth, what do you call without plymouth?
[16:54] <Amaranth> seb128: no
[16:54] <Amaranth> seb128: completely uninstalled because it added like 8 seconds to my boot :)
[16:55] <LaserJock> didrocks: I see, kinda sucks to have 20 additional packages because of it but it makes sense, perhaps that would be something for documentation?
[16:55] <qense> I'm using Gwibber 2.29.90 on Ubuntu and Twitter doesn't show up in my feed. Is that worth a bug report, or is the configuration at my computer wrong?
[16:56] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, that if people have 3D driver, they can after remove the netbook-launcher-efl. That's why it's only a recommends. We just want to make it work for most of people :)
[16:56] <rickspencer3> qense, it's worth a bug report
[16:57] <qense> rickspencer3: OK, I'll report
[16:57] <chrisccoulson> yay, it's snowing outside, just in time for me to drive home
[16:57] <Amaranth> seb128: also, booting compiz with bare minimum plugins (move, resize, place, decoration) removes almost all CPU usage from compiz in bootchart and seems to cut 1.5 seconds
[16:57] <Amaranth> that's without ccp, too
[16:58] <Amaranth> but when I trim it down to what I would consider the bare minimum to make it worth enabling compiz (no animation plugin even) it doesn't seem to make any dent
[16:58] <Amaranth> I guess I need to go through the remaining plugins and hope one of them causes most of the CPU usage but I have a feeling it's death by a thousand cuts
[17:02] <LaserJock> didrocks: does Canonical do hardware certification for netbooks?
[17:03] <didrocks> rickspencer3: ^ ?
[17:04] <LaserJock> I'm wondering if there will be a known "UNE *will* work OOTB for these models" list
[17:04] <rickspencer3> LaserJock, I think they did for Karmic, but I don't know for Lucid
[17:04] <didrocks> LaserJock: I think the community page at least for that is good. I've chosen my netbook from it :)
[17:05] <LaserJock> didrocks: do know what the URL for that is? I'll add it to the landing page
[17:05] <seb128> Amaranth, did you remove those from the config or from the disk?
[17:07] <didrocks> LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport/Machines/Netbooks
[17:07] <LaserJock> awesome, thanks
[17:07] <didrocks> LaserJock: some are tested on UNR other on ubuntu-desktop, so, be careful ;)
[17:07] <Amaranth> seb128: both
[17:07] <didrocks> LaserJock: but the page is pretty useful, right :)
[17:07] <Amaranth> seb128: dunno if removing from disk made any difference though
[17:08] <LaserJock> didrocks: it's odd that it's on wiki.ubuntu.com, I would have expected it to be on help.ubuntu.com
[17:09] <kklimonda> seb128: new gtk+ update has made rhythmbox a real cpu hog when playing music :/
[17:10] <seb128> just when playing?
[17:10] <LaserJock> didrocks: I'll dig around wiki.u.c and see if there is other netbook help-type docs that maybe should get move over or linked to at least
[17:10] <kklimonda> seb128: yes
[17:10] <kklimonda> seb128: the moment I start playing rhythmbox starts burning ~25% of cpu and makes X work hard too
[17:11] <didrocks> LaserJock: apart from that one, I don't know any other, but that worthes a look. You can maybe paste it on help.ubuntu.com and make a link from wiki.u.c to help.u.c.
[17:12] <didrocks> LaserJock: thanks for your excellent work on that ;)
[17:12] <kklimonda> seb128: when I close window it's back to normal
[17:12] <bratsche> Hey.
[17:12] <seb128> hey bratsche
[17:12] <qense> rickspencer3: My problem was already reported in bug 521569
[17:12] <seb128> kklimonda, bratsche is the one who worked on those changes
[17:12] <seb128> bratsche, where would be the right place to open a bug? rhythmbox or gtk?
[17:12] <kklimonda> bratsche: hey - my rhythmbox doesn't like your gtk+ :)
[17:13] <bratsche> kklimonda: I'm putting some music into Rhythmbox now so I can try to test.  Sorry. :)
[17:14] <bratsche> Damn, I should have just imported one album.  I imported everything from Banshee and it's taking forever.
[17:14] <LaserJock> didrocks: np, it's nice to be able to do something useful for a change ;-)
[17:14] <seb128> bratsche, you can close rhythmbox ;-)
[17:15] <seb128> bratsche, close and reopen, that's usually efficient :p
[17:16] <baptistemm> didrocks, from alex "they do completely different things, xdg-user-dirs-gtk-update tracks language changes and offers to migrate to new folder names"
[17:17] <didrocks> baptistemm: ok, thanks, we'll rediscuss that tomorrow once pitti is back
[17:18] <baptistemm> I did packaged it but I totally forgot its purpose
[17:19] <LaserJock> didrocks: is there a URL for UNE specs/task list?
[17:20] <seb128> kklimonda, can you open a gtk+2.0 bug on launchpad?
[17:20] <kklimonda> seb128: sure
[17:20] <seb128> thanks
[17:21] <didrocks> LaserJock: the current UNE specs from last UDS as just been completed as FF was yesterday. I'll give you the links for lucid +1 when next UDS will be prepared
[17:22] <bratsche> kklimonda: I'll get it fixed up asap.  Thanks!
[17:22] <LaserJock> didrocks: so all the specs from Lucid UDS got finished? or did some get deferred?
[17:23] <didrocks> LaserJock: all for UNE in any case are finished :)
[17:23] <didrocks> LaserJock: now, it's time for bug fixing
[17:23] <LaserJock> didrocks: wow, awesome.
[17:24] <didrocks> LaserJock: if you want to give an hand, I have a list of bugs that I want to be fixed for lucid. I'll try to setup an order and difficultie level :)
[17:26] <kklimonda> bratsche: bug 523949 for reference and closing when fixed :)
[17:26] <bratsche> kklimonda: Thanks!
[17:26] <LaserJock> didrocks: sure, I'd have a look. I don't know that I have time to contribute much but I could have a go at it anyway.
[17:27] <LaserJock> didrocks: is https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-unr-qa/+packagebugs a good list?
[17:27] <didrocks> LaserJock: no, I'll setup it tomorrow and paste it somewhere in the wiki
[17:28] <didrocks> LaserJock: I'll ping you in any case :)
[17:28] <LaserJock> didrocks: ok, cool
[17:28] <didrocks> LaserJock: thank you for your work there!
[17:33] <seb128> bratsche, g-t keeps flashing too, I've not found what triggers it but that happens quite often, not sure if that could be a vte thing
[17:36] <bratsche> seb128: Yeah I think I know how to fix that.  I'll do that after I figure out the RB issue.
[17:43] <seb128> bratsche, do you get it too?
[17:44] <bratsche> seb128: It happens when the title changes.
[17:45] <seb128> bratsche, ok
[17:45] <seb128> bratsche, I think evolution has a similar issue
[17:45] <seb128> it's so sluggish today so I can't almost use it
[17:55] <kenvandine> seb128, i just shaved 976K off the size of the gwibber deps :)
[17:55] <seb128> nice
[17:55] <kenvandine> seb128, can you review a debdiff?
[17:55] <kenvandine> when you have time?
[17:55] <seb128> sure
[17:55] <kenvandine> thx
[17:56] <kenvandine> this package did some things i havent' seen before ;)
[17:58] <kklimonda> kenvandine: is there any eta for music store launch you can give?
[18:05] <didrocks> james_w: I can confirm that the first time I convert to the new workflow merge-upstream, the debian/ directory is removed. I'll try to give you a simple testcase
[18:06] <didrocks> james_w: and the debian/ directory was never created/deleted in the upstream branch
[18:06] <james_w> didrocks: cool, a test case would be great
[18:07] <kenvandine> kklimonda, http://isthemusicstorereadyyet.com/
[18:07] <kenvandine> kklimonda, alpha3 :)
[18:07] <kenvandine> aquarius, i love that page :)
[18:08] <dobey> haha
[18:09] <kklimonda> kenvandine: nice :D
[18:10] <aquarius> :)
[19:05] <didrocks> asac: you didn't remove n-l-efl autostart file (it's a conffile), consequently, for people having it before, it wasn't moved :)
[19:08] <asac> hmm true
[19:08]  * asac remembers his dislike about /etc for system defaults ;)
[19:09] <asac> didrocks: i am on a marathon call and wont be able to fix today. if you have a diff i can sponsor
[19:09] <asac> didrocks: otherwise ill do first thing in morning
[19:18] <didrocks> asac: I'll do that tomorrow morning, not so important right now and I'll propose you a diff
[19:18] <didrocks> (and right, that's misleading)
[19:24] <mdeslaur> bratsche: the new gtk+2.0 is causing my xchat and xorg to use all available CPU. I've added a comment to bug #523949.
[19:26] <bratsche> mdeslaur: Thanks.  Sorry about that, I'm working on it.
[19:27] <mdeslaur> bratsche: cool, thanks
[19:28] <bratsche> Although I need to get some lunch and run an errand now.
[19:28] <bratsche> I'll be back soon and try to get it fixed asap.
[19:36] <chrisccoulson> bratsche, have you noticed that the GDM greeter window is decorated now?
[19:36] <chrisccoulson> i'm just wondering if that's due to the gtk update
[19:50] <chrisccoulson> tedg - where is the me menu meant to get the face icon from? (i assume that the new version is meant to display that)
[19:50] <chrisccoulson> i just get the stock placeholder icon
[19:51] <tedg> chrisccoulson: I'm not sure actually davidbarth did that work.
[19:51] <chrisccoulson> ah, ok. thanks
[19:52] <chrisccoulson> i'll see if i can figure it out after dinner ;)
[19:52] <chrisccoulson> the new menu looks pretty sweet btw
[20:25] <bratsche> chrisccoulson: Yeah, that's due to the gtk update.  Will fix. :)
[20:25] <chrisccoulson> bratsche, thanks!
[20:26] <kenvandine> hey seb128, wb!
[20:27] <seb128> kenvandine, hello
[20:27] <seb128> how are things going there?
[20:27] <kenvandine> seb128, if you have time.. i would appreciate a review/sponsor of bug 523969
[20:27] <kenvandine> good, i got the last two DX uploads
[20:27] <seb128> ok, will do that in a bit
[20:27] <kenvandine> thx seb128
[20:27] <seb128> np
[20:33] <baptistemm_> hello
[20:41] <TheMuso`> seb128: thanks will take a look.
[20:41] <seb128> TheMuso`, hey
[20:41] <seb128> TheMuso`, it has been fixed since but thanks ;-)
[20:42] <TheMuso`> Right
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[20:42] <seb128> hello chrisccoulson
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[20:43] <seb128> still having this cold but it's ok
[20:43] <seb128> you?
[20:44] <seb128> kenvandine, the doc packages should probably be arch all
[20:44] <seb128> or do they have anything arch specific?
[20:44] <kenvandine> oh, ok
[20:45] <seb128> I would also uses Replaces: rather than Conflicts: there
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i'm ok thanks. had quite a long journey back this evening though
[20:45] <seb128> but maybe check with mvo I'm never sure about that and if both should be used
[20:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, snowing again?
[20:45] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, it's snowing again. but there's not very much snow
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> the roads just seem to stop when a few flakes fall ;)
[20:46] <kenvandine> mvo, if i am splitting out docs into separate -docs package (which of course has path conflicts), should that be a Conflicts, Replaces, or both?
[20:47] <kenvandine> seb128, changed it to arch all
[20:48] <mvo> kenvandine: replaces (<< ) should be enough
[20:48] <kenvandine> ok
[20:48] <kenvandine> thx
[20:48] <kenvandine> so what is Conflicts for?
[20:48] <mvo> np
[20:48] <kenvandine> :)
[20:48] <kenvandine> seb128, ok, fixed that too
[20:48] <mvo> replaces just means "this package will replace/overwrite/take over some of your files"
[20:48] <mvo> conflicts: the two packages can not be unapcked on the system at the same time
[20:48] <mvo> (which is a much stronger statement)
[20:49] <seb128> kenvandine, Conflicts is for things conflicting
[20:49] <seb128> like things which can"t be installed together because one breaks the other one
[20:49] <mvo> so for a conflicts apt will remove the old first before installing the new, but that causes more trouble for the ordering and more fs churn. that is not needed in a situation like this were just some files get replaced
[20:49] <seb128> random example would be login managers if you couldn't select which one to run
[20:49] <mvo> or two httpd
[20:50] <kenvandine> ah, ok
[20:50] <mvo> yeah, its confusing :)
[21:03] <pitti> re
[21:03] <pitti> ah, that was nice
[21:03] <pitti> didrocks: "without plymouth" -> nosplash, or purged package?
[21:04] <pitti> baptistemm_: thanks; I know that they do different things, but I thought that -gtk-update would call -update; anyway, I'll check that
[21:08] <chrisccoulson> my laptop is not in a happy place right now
[21:08] <kenvandine> pitti, i shaved the 2 egenie-mx packages down by 965K :)
[21:09] <pitti> kenvandine: yay
[21:09] <kenvandine> so i think they are no 70K and like 81K
[21:09] <pitti> kenvandine: so all the docs/examples are in a -doc package now?
[21:09] <kenvandine> seb128 is reviewing it
[21:09] <kenvandine> yeah
[21:09] <kenvandine> the docs are all pdf files, gzipped
[21:09] <kenvandine> so huge
[21:09] <kenvandine> but actually quite nice, i had never looked at them :)
[21:09] <pitti> kenvandine: tomorrow's CDs should build again (unless someone else breaks them all over again tonight :) ), then we'll see how much we have left
[21:10] <kenvandine> yay for documented APIs
[21:10] <pitti> I think I fixed the overflow yesterday with chopping langpacks
[21:10] <kenvandine> cool
[21:10] <baptistemm_> pitti, alex larsson (the guy who wrote the two tools) told me their jobs was different. I guess -gtk-update can be deferred to the end on the session beginning without any problem
[21:11] <pitti> baptistemm_: right, my concern was just that we call -update twice (once from Xsession.d/, once from -gtk-update)
[21:12] <pitti> baptistemm_: thanks for the investigations!
[21:12] <baptistemm_> you're welcome
[21:12] <chrisccoulson_> the latest indicator-messages makes every messaging app crash at launch now
[21:13] <pitti> baptistemm_: ok, strace says that it's not
[21:13] <baptistemm_> you're doing the same job than me :)
[21:14] <baptistemm_> I was stracing too :)
[21:14] <LaserJock> chrisccoulson_: that's uncool
[21:14] <chrisccoulson_> yeah
[21:15] <pitti> baptistemm_: however, the code does have several spawns for -update
[21:40] <seb128> re
[21:40] <seb128> gna
[21:40] <seb128> tedg, !!!
[21:41] <seb128> everything using the message indicator crashes on start there
[21:41] <seb128> ie xchat-gnome, empathy
[21:42] <tedg> seb128: We're talking about it in #ayatana
[21:42] <seb128> tedg, ok
[21:42]  * RAOF passes on the morning upgrade, then.
[21:44] <LaserJock> I'm going for the "don't log out or reboot whatever you do" route
[21:45] <seb128> workaround is to remove the indicator message applet and stop the corresponding service
[22:02] <dobey> yay. I don't have an indicator applet, so no worries here :)
[22:02] <dobey> except I guess at some point soon the nm-applet icon is going to disappear from my notification area :-/
[22:03] <seb128> no it's not
[22:03] <seb128> the indicators fallback to notification icons
[22:05] <dobey> oh
[22:05] <dobey> so i am supposed to still have the pulseaudio thing in the notification area?
[22:05] <dobey> because i don't :(
[22:05] <seb128> no, that one is a system indicator
[22:05] <seb128> it's just because we disabled the autostart for gnome-volume-control-applet
[22:06] <seb128> you can reable it in your session
[22:06] <dobey> oh
[22:09] <dobey> hrmm
[22:09] <dobey> i don't see it in the gnome-session-properties list
[22:10] <seb128> I've dropped GNOME; from the ShowIn in the desktop
[22:10] <seb128> so maybe that filter it out of the capplet too
[22:10] <chrisccoulson_> its because it has NoDisplay=true
[22:10] <seb128> it has?
[22:10] <chrisccoulson_> and our patch to the capplet filters it out
[22:11] <chrisccoulson_> maybe we should drop that from the desktop file then
[22:11] <seb128> oh right
[22:13] <dobey> mosquito.kill(weapon=sledgehammer)
[22:14] <baptistemm_> who should I contact to have some permission to in the bug part of launchpad?
[22:14] <dobey> permissions for what?
[22:14] <seb128> baptistemm_, try talking to pedro when he's around
[22:16] <baptistemm_> +modify bugs report
[22:17] <baptistemm_> okay, I'll ask tomorrow, I wont be long to go to sleep, tx
[22:53] <baptistemm_> pitti, could a power daemon or any power related software could affect the bug https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bluez/+bug/381913 ?
[22:56] <nekohayo> ping seb128?
[22:56] <seb128> hi?
[22:57] <nekohayo> I'm the main pitivi tester/ui nazi/etc., and I have noticed that *many* files are not properly detected by the gstreamer codec installer thingy
[22:57] <nekohayo> I have put together this bunch of samples, ordered:
[22:58] <nekohayo> ...urgh wait a sec my server is down :(
[22:58] <nekohayo> anyway I have gathered lots of sample video files
[22:58] <nekohayo> that I *know* work with gstreamer, but are not properly detected for the missing codecs dialog
[22:58] <nekohayo> so I'm wondering who I should bug about this
[22:58] <nekohayo> rickspencer3 suggested I ask you
[23:02] <bryceh> nekohayo, cool that you have a good test suite built up, I don't know if seb128 has already put you in touch with the qa team, but it would be awesome to see that included with the general ubuntu tests
[23:03] <nekohayo> seb128, http://jeff.ecchi.ca/public/gstreamer-codec-autodetection/
[23:03] <bryceh> nekohayo, pedro or ara would probably be good people to speak with
[23:03] <bryceh> think they're on #ubuntu-qa
[23:03] <nekohayo> bryceh, well it's a "bunch of random video samples" for testing, it's not a test suite that I have programmed or something like that
[23:03] <nekohayo> brb
[23:04] <seb128> nekohayo, do you know if the issue is specific to ubuntu?
[23:04] <bryceh> nekohayo, the qa team might be able to help massage those into something more structured
[23:04] <nekohayo> seb128, not sure
[23:04] <seb128> are you doing testing for upstream?
[23:04] <seb128> did you raise the issue on #pitivi before?
[23:17] <seb128> grrr
[23:17] <seb128> I don't get this debian format3 system
[23:18] <robert_ancell> seb128, do you know what Debian package provides the GNOME_COMPILE_WARNINGS autoconf macro?
[23:21] <nekohayo> seb128, I filed a bug on pitivi but not yet on gstreamer, and I poked Tim on #gstreamer about it vaguely
[23:22] <nekohayo> seb128, pitivi bug is https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=610325
[23:22] <seb128> robert_ancell, gnome-common: /usr/share/aclocal/gnome-compiler-flags.m4
[23:22] <seb128> robert_ancell, I think
[23:22] <robert_ancell> seb128, thanks, that was it
[23:23] <seb128> nekohayo, seems to be an upstream pitivi issue I think you opened the bug at the right place
[23:23] <nekohayo> sure
[23:23] <nekohayo> seb128, but the thing is
[23:23] <nekohayo> it's not just pitivi.
[23:23] <nekohayo> totem, too.
[23:23] <nekohayo> as you can see in that folder
[23:24] <nekohayo> so at least part of it might be gstreamer's fault
[23:24] <seb128> on the bug you say some work in totem and not in pitivi
[23:24] <seb128> some in neither
[23:24] <seb128> you should open different bugs for those different scenarios
[23:25] <seb128> and give a specific example for each
[23:25] <nekohayo> specific examples: well just look at http://jeff.ecchi.ca/public/gstreamer-codec-autodetection/ and you'll see :)
[23:25] <seb128> sorry I can't really look to it right now, lucid feature freeze was yesterday and I'm still trying to get some late changes
[23:25] <nekohayo> ok sure
[23:25] <seb128> maybe come back next week
[23:25] <nekohayo> should I file a bug on a) totem b) gstreamer general c) both?
[23:25] <seb128> or drop an email about that on the ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com list
[23:26] <nekohayo> d) ubuntu ?
[23:26] <seb128> well, whatever has the issue
[23:26] <nekohayo> seems like all of them
[23:26] <seb128> you can try gstreamer with gst-launch playbin2 uri=...
[23:26] <seb128> if that fails to play a video and you have the codecs open on gstreamer
[23:27] <seb128> if that's a codec installation issue and you know there is a codec to play the format open a bug on totem
[23:27] <seb128> or pitivi if the issue is only with pitivi
[23:27] <seb128> better to open on launchpad and bugzilla
[23:27] <seb128> and give urls to the other bugs in the comments
[23:29] <robert_ancell> seb128, hmm, do you think simple-scan is "gnome-like-enough" to be included in the feature freeze exception?
[23:29] <seb128> robert_ancell, no
[23:29] <seb128> robert_ancell, the GNOME ffe exception is made because they have known schedule and freezes for translations, etc
[23:29] <robert_ancell> seb128, :P But I'm following that schedule...
[23:30] <seb128> robert_ancell, but it should be pretty easy to get ffe exception for it by just pinging pitti for example
[23:30] <robert_ancell> seb128, np, I expect the next release will be 1.0 anyway
[23:30] <seb128> usually for such updates it's just ask, get a quick reply to upload and do it
[23:31] <robert_ancell> seb128, ok, I have a merge with Debian update, ok to release that?
[23:31] <seb128> yes
[23:31] <robert_ancell> seb128, also, I'm planning to propose it for GNOME 3.0, do you happen to know where the list of current GNOME modules/dependencies is stored?
[23:32] <seb128> have you seen the email on desktop-devel-list today about that topic?
[23:35] <robert_ancell> seb128, the request for proposals? yup
[23:35] <robert_ancell> oh duh
[23:35] <robert_ancell> tl;dr :)
[23:35] <robert_ancell> getting the amount of email these days makes me skim read too much :)
[23:37] <seb128> robert_ancell, I deleted the email now but there was no url or instructions there?
[23:38] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, there was a url :)
[23:39] <robert_ancell> Interesting - gnome-scan/sane are not part of GNOME
[23:39] <seb128> ok good ;-)
[23:47] <robert_ancell> pitti, who produces libgudev?
[23:49] <seb128> robert_ancell, look to the debian copyright in the source?
[23:50] <robert_ancell> seb128, thanks, was looking at packages.debian.org.  I hate how low-level projects often don't bother with a website.