persiasebner: Well, main sponsors are always hard to find.00:00
persiaYou just need to make sure to give enough slack.00:00
directhexpersia, (or warning)00:00
sebnerpersia: I really have high hopes on the archive-reorg. or at least thinking about becoming generalist developer00:01
* persia grumbles about permissions irregularities.00:01
highvoltageI think archive reorg is definitely making things easier for kubuntu, xubuntu and edubuntu and similar teams00:02
persiaCould someone who isn't stuck in an approval queue please change the topic to reflect FeatureFreeze?00:02
sebnerpersia: nahh!" As long as the topic isn't changed we are free to upload :P00:02
directhexcould someone with power over nature turn back time a few hours plz?00:02
persiahighvoltage: Yeah, but I'm complaining about suddenly discovering that I'm not an op in here.00:02
geserthis seems to have changed with the move of freenode to an other ircd00:03
ajmitchsebner: sorry I can't sponsor, I killed my lucid box :)00:04
RAOFdirecthex: Just move London a few thousand miles west!00:04
geserajmitch: perfect timing00:04
ajmitchgeser: isn't it?00:04
* sebner waves at geser (my core-dev friend)00:04
* ajmitch managed to crack the screen on the laptop00:04
sebnergeser: mind sponsoring? /me sees no FF in effect00:04
=== maxb_ is now known as maxb
ajmitchRAOF: an expensive ouch, too00:05
gesersebner: like persia I'm only an indirect core-dev through DMB00:05
sebner* persia grumbles about permissions irregularities.00:05
* sebner too00:05
sebnergeser: + apply!00:05
persiasebner: You've done developer applications : it takes a while to get it ready.00:06
ajmitchI don't think he can become core-dev within the next few minutes00:06
sebnerpersia: not for geser ;-P00:06
persiaajmitch: Requires past time, actually.  0:00 UTC was the theoretical cut-off.00:07
ajmitchpersia: theory & practice don't always coincide00:07
* sebner doesn't see the topic changed00:07
ajmitchespecially around release milestones :)00:08
persiatrue :)00:08
* sebner proposes to make the FF on the last time period of 18th00:09
sebnerMeans in 23 hours and 50 minutes00:09
persiasebner: Erm, no.00:11
* sebner calls it a day and says gn800:11
sebnerpersia: you are killing the fun :P00:11
persiasebner: end of 18th worldwide isn't for about 38 hours.00:11
ajmitch38 hours till FF? excellent00:11
persiaUm, someone ought run that past slangasek :)00:12
ajmitchI'll take your word for it :)00:12
persiaI really do remember a statement that freezes applied at 0:00 UTC00:12
persia(but I'd be delighted to be wrong about that)00:12
ajmitchit's usually been the case00:12
persiaWell, at least since slangasek has been around.  Way back when we used to push it :)00:12
slangasekin practice I don't expect to get the mail out until AM Europe time00:12
slangasekso you have a grace period :P00:13
persiaslangasek: But is that grace period a result of policy, or your workload?00:13
slangasekthe latter00:13
persiaso, we probably shouldn't press on with a REVU sprint, syncfest, and merging madness?00:13
* lifeless queues up a bunch of upstream releases for post FF, to test the FFe pocess.00:13
slangasekpersia: I leave it to the deveolpers' discretion ;)00:14
persiaActually, testing the new FFe process will be interesting.  This will be the first time we have an integrated release team.00:14
ajmitchI'm guessing the 4 people in ~ubuntu-release will be getting a lot of mail in the next few days then00:14
persiaThere's supposed to be some more members added to help with that.00:15
ajmitchwill it still be approval from any 2?00:15
persiaI wouldn't expect a policy change, but I could be mistaken00:15
* persia tends to avoid release coordination stuff00:16
ScottKpersia: While new day UTC may be a goal, I don't think FF happens until the release manager says it does.00:17
* ScottK thinks you are free to press on.00:17
highvoltagewell, release manager did say it's at the discretion of the developer. I guess that's a nice way to say "please don't *totally* abuse it"00:19
slangasekajmitch: well, the freeze policy for main has always had a quorum of 100:24
ajmitchuniverse has tended to be 2 for some reason00:24
persiaMostly because we don't really trust anyone.00:25
persiaMoving to 1 makes sense.00:25
crimsunwasn't that from the first MC?00:25
crimsunseems kinda outdated given main's practice00:25
persiaWas it even an MC thing?  I thought we decided at a MOTU meeting.00:25
ajmitchdoesn't really matter, nor should it take much to change00:26
persiaDoesn't take more than an email from the release team to change.00:26
persiaWe've delegated to a release team, and they get to make decisions.00:26
PATXcan somebody help me decipher this: http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/revu1-incoming/fastpatx-1002180206/lintian01:13
lifelesslooks like a url to me01:13
PATXdebian-watch-file-in-native-package << its says no watch filed needed which, really is correct but i put one w/ comments in anyway01:13
lifelesswhy are you doing a native package01:14
lifelessif its /possible/ to write a watch file, it shouldn't be a native package.01:14
PATXhow do i not do one01:14
lifelessmake sure you have the tarball it looks for present, and ensure there is at aleast one - in the version number01:14
PATXlifeless, fastpatx_6.0.1-1ubuntu1.tar.gz << thats in ../01:15
lifelessthats because its a native package01:15
lifelessdo you know what I'm talking about, or are you guessing?01:16
PATXwhat are you talking about?01:16
PATXdpkg-buildpackage -S -sa -rfakeroot -k<my key>01:17
PATXi did that to build i thought that did NOT make a native pkg01:17
lifelessthe command you ran has nothing to do with native/non-native01:17
PATXlifeless, does it need to be a non-native to get into ubuntu01:21
persiaIf there is a separate upstream01:21
lifelessPATX: generally nothing should be native.01:23
lifelessexcept things that are only developed in-ubuntu-for-ubuntu01:23
lifelessarguably our dpkg etc packages should be non-native :)01:24
PATXbut now i am kinda confused...01:24
PATXdo i just need that?01:24
persiaPATX: My best recommendation to get the right file is to create a working watch file, and add the correct changelog entry and call `uscan --force-download`.  This will automatically set the correct filename.01:26
RAOFIt shouw be fastpatx_6.0.1.orig.tar.gz; the upstream code won't change with each package revision, so you just use the upstream version.01:26
RAOFOr, what persia said, which solves two problems in one.01:26
PATXpersia, my watch file does not get new version though... its just http://patx.me/paste/77751.html01:28
PATXis that bad (what it says is true)01:28
LaibschRAOF: would you be willing to take another look at http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/ffgtk ?01:29
Laibschporthose: Can you do the same? ^01:29
persiaPATX: That's fine, but it means you can't have a working watch file.01:30
PATXyea i know01:30
Laibschanybody other MOTU awake and willing to give to give me an endorsement for http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/ffgtk ?01:30
persiaPATX: Now, write a get-orig-source rule for debian/rules that does the necessary screen-scraping to get the right upstream, etc, but then you have to name the file in the format RAOF suggested.01:30
persiaLaibsch: We're kinda sorta in feature freeze.  Why is this package so cool it needs to be in lucid?01:30
Laibschpersia: I know01:31
Laibschand that's exactly the problem01:31
LaibschPlease take a look and see that I've been trying to get this package into Ubuntu since karmic01:31
LaibschIt's quite frustrating01:31
LaibschI've put a lot of work into this package01:31
Laibschand isdnutils which is a prerequisite01:32
Laibschonly to see things linger01:32
LaibschSame thing I experienced with gjots201:32
Laibschit lingered so long that eventually my work went to waste01:32
Laibschnot a cool feeling01:32
LaibschUbuntu is supposed to be more agile than Debian, but my experience is the complete opposite01:33
persiaI'm not at all certain we're more agile.01:33
LaibschI usually have no problem getting stuff pushed into Debian, but Ubuntu is always a pain01:33
persiaWe generally recommend everyone put stuff in Debian (although we accept it)01:33
Laibschpeople make you run around "you open a ticket in LP, people there tell you to upload to REVU, where the entry is closed and you're sent back to LP"01:33
Laibschpersia: I make it a point to usually push to Debian although I don't use it01:34
LaibschShortly before the window closes for a new Ubuntu release, I ask for syncs, etc.01:34
persiaIf you're using Ubuntu, you're using Debian, plus a thin veneer of patches, and some plumbing changes.01:34
LaibschDuring the last couple of days, of course, I try to push to Ubuntu directly01:35
Laibschand my experience with the responses there is abyssmal and frustrating01:35
Laibschpersia: you know what I mean, I'm really frustrated and not in a mood to nitpick01:35
persiaThe last couple of days is precisely the worst time to try to push to Ubuntu.01:35
LaibschI maintain 6-7 packages in Debian, I know the background01:36
persiaBecause that's when developers have the least time.01:36
Laibschpersia: Look at the references I gave you, please01:36
LaibschI start about two weeks before01:36
Laibschpersia: let me give you the number of a bug ticket01:36
persiaI just reviewed your package history on REVU.  The latest upload was 2 days before FF, fixing a heap of stuff you knew about since August.01:36
Laibschpersia: or better, instead of arguing, would you be so kind and do a review?01:37
persiaBut I'll look at it if you tell me why it's cool )01:37
LaibschI can tell you about my frustrations in the meantime01:37
Laibschpersia: do you live in .de?01:37
LaibschHave you heard about FritzBoxes?01:37
maco2he's in .jp01:38
LaibschThey have a large market share as all-in-one boxes01:38
Laibschpersia: You're in .jp?01:38
LaibschWe need to meet next time ;-)01:38
LaibschYou're not ??? Plessy, are you?01:38
Laibschwas ist Charles?01:38
LaibschI see01:39
lifelesscheck /whois01:39
Laibschffgtk allows to control Fritz Boxes01:39
Laibschand fax through them over the network01:39
Laibschthat is pretty cool01:39
Laibschand currently not possible with any other solution01:40
Laibschpersia: convinced?01:40
LaibschI'm sorry, it may not be anythning you may be able to use01:40
* persia will look, but it needs two01:40
LaibschI know01:40
persiaNope.  I can't use it, and I can't test it.01:40
LaibschBut it always needs a first01:40
LaibschIt's not completely functional yet01:40
LaibschWe also need the changes to isdnutils01:41
Laibschthe program itself is done01:41
Laibschbut it needs some changes in isdnutils to talk to the Fritzbox01:41
Laibschpersia: bug 420918 to see some of the run-around one can be given with 0 progress01:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 420918 in isdnutils "please update libcapi" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/42091801:42
PATXI am just not quite getting the non-native01:42
persiaPATX: You're packaging a shell script, right?  Have you read the wiki page about packaging without compilation?01:43
Laibschpersia: bug 406578 isn't much prettier01:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 406578 in inkscape "use correct Name and GenericName in desktop file" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40657801:43
Laibschsorry, wrong bug number01:43
Laibschbug 40657401:43
persiaLaibsch: Complaining to me about these won't help much.01:43
PATXpersia, i am packaging just one .py01:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 406574 in gjots2 "please update gjots2 to 2.3.8 (complete patch included)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40657401:43
LaibschI need to vent ;-)01:44
persiaPATX: OK.  Did you read that wiki page?01:44
PATXthe... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide ?01:44
PATXif so yea01:44
lifelessLaibsch: please don't vent here; we try to have a productive channel, and venting is distruptive, even though I can understand the urge.01:45
lifelesspersia: speaking of productive, do your randr needing packages in main build now?01:45
lifelesspersia: can I chalk that up to 'done'01:45
persiaPATX: No, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingWithoutCompiling : that's a shortcut guide to accomplish what you are trying to do quickly.01:46
PATXah OK thanks :)01:46
persialifeless: I don't have packages in main :)01:46
lifelesspersia: well, wherever they were failing01:46
persialifeless: But I'll try to find the package that needed it, and rebuild.01:46
persialifeless: But I'm 99% sure that you can call it  'done".01:47
lifelesspersia: I'm a skeptic01:47
Laibschlifeless: I think it may be important for MOTU to understand the frustrations of non-MOTU from time to time look at the links I gave and see I am being productive while I'm being given very unproductive runarounds01:47
lifelessits important to understand the problems and issues. Thats very different to venting.01:48
PATXpersia, ok i think i am getting it... :) thanks... just one question do i need a debian/install (just never used one before when makeing .deb s for my lp ppa)01:57
persiaPATX: Depends on whether you have a setup.py / Makefile / etc.01:57
persiaI think it's easier to understand a debian/install file than hacking around in debian/rules01:58
PATXpersia, i have a setup.py02:01
persiaPATX: Then you don't need debian/install unless your setup.py is buggy :)02:01
PATXpersia, ok :) and debian/compat (and pycompat) i have used before. but i do not see them on your page... do i not need these?02:02
PATXoh wait nvm02:04
persiaPATX: debian/compat should appear on that page (somewhere - I should rewrite that page, or do another session in exchange for someone else rewriting it).  pycompat is important for python packages in some way I don't precisely understand: I have no idea if you need it for a single script.02:04
PATXi see it (its burried)02:05
ScottKpersia: pycompat is obsolete and not needed.  Thanks to a cdbs bug it's unfortunately common.02:09
persiaScottK: Thanks for the clarification.  Is the debian/control field still required, or only for modules?02:11
PATXah ok :)02:11
ScottKpersia: You mean XS/XB-Python-Version?02:14
persiaFor all packages, even just scripts?02:15
RAOFThat's just for dh_pycentral, right?  My understanding of the Python policy was that you only needed to specify anything about python versions if there are versions of python that won't work (ie: it's an extension, or uses features from 2.4+, or ...)02:19
PATXpersia, if i wanted to not use setup.py (ill use debian/install) it would still in install in usr/bin correct? not some python location?02:19
persiaPATX: Depends what you put in debian/install :)  But it could.02:21
PATXi was just going to do "fastpatx usr/bin"02:21
PATXfastpatx being my package02:22
paissadguys, after running apt-get remove, i have some files i did not expected to be conffiles http://pastebin.com/f3d69c90102:28
paissad ... actually i only expected /etc/PMS.conf & /etc/WEB.conf no to be removed02:28
paissadis it a new rule for Debian/Ubuntu policy not to remove files in /etc/default  & /etc/init.d & /etc/logroated/ ???02:28
PATXpersia, http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/fastpatx02:30
PATXcan u look at that? i think i got it?02:31
PATXbut maybe you could tell me to do anything that might hold me up getting it passed...02:31
persiapaissad: Everything in /etc/ gets marked as a conffile by default02:32
persiaPATX: Maybe in a bit: I've been reviewing for the past 12 hours, and would prefer not to look at yet more right now :)02:32
PATXok thanks a million if you get to it :)02:33
paissadpersia, do i have to respect that policy ... or may i override the rule & remove some files in /etc/* ?02:33
persiapaissad: I believe there's a way to mark a preferred subset of files as conffiles, so the rest automatically go away.  I don't know how to do it.02:34
paissadpersia, if i create a debian/conffiles as said in Maintainer's Guide, i hope that only that files will be considered so02:35
persiapaissad: Quite possibly.  Test it :02:35
paissadfiles mentionned in debian/conffiles i mean02:35
paissadpersia, ok i will, thx02:36
james_wman dh_installdeb02:38
persiajames_w: Thanks :)02:39
* persia reads02:39
persiaAh, so it can't be overridden02:41
james_wit's not clear02:44
ScottKpersia: Anything shipped in /etc is a conffile.  If you don't want something in /etc to be a conffile, then generate it in postinst.02:46
persiaScottK: Right.02:46
persiajames_w: It's much more clear in the dh_installdeb source, which works as ScottK just described02:47
* persia having read it due to the brevity of the manpage02:47
SoftwareExplorerI added a ppa in launchpad. I used the correct url/path on the command line but forgot to update ~/.dput.cf. I don't see the package in the ppa, but if I try it again (with an updated ~/.dput.cf) it says that it is already uploaded to launchpad. Am I just being to impatient?03:01
lifelessSoftwareExplorer: you're not understanding what dput does.03:01
lifelessSoftwareExplorer: dput writes a file when it uploads something.03:01
lifelessdelete said file.03:02
SoftwareExplorerlifeless: Ok, thanks.03:02
SoftwareExplorerlifeless: It worked. :)03:03
lifelessfeel free to file a bug saying 'the already uploaded message should print the file that it checked' or something - to make it more discoverable03:03
paissadpersia, i have this warning " duplicate-conffile "if i create debian/conffiles03:34
ScottKpaissad: Don't list anything shipped in /etc in debian/conffiles.  They are conffiles automatically (and unavoidably)03:35
paissadthough,i guess i have to create a prerm script which removes /etc/logrotate/foo , /etc/default/foo /etc/init.d/foo !03:35
paissadScottK, ok , i understand that now ... but i don't need all files in /etc to be conffiles  ^^03:36
ScottKBut they are by policy03:36
paissadScottK, By default, they are, but do you agree with that all files in /etc need to be conf files03:37
ScottKNo.  They don't, but then don't ship them in the binary03:38
paissadScottK, i will remove some of them from prerm script (remove or purge)03:38
paissadbtw, what must i use ( prerm or postrm ?)03:39
ScottKpostrm, IIRC03:46
suji11what is going on in my package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/iok ?03:49
rmunnSo now that feature freeze is over, what's the best thing a not-yet-MOTU can do to help improve Lucid?04:16
fabrice_sprmunn, fix non installable pacakge and non buildable ones04:17
=== Laibsch1 is now known as Laibsch
=== micahg1 is now known as micahg
suji11what is going on in my package http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/iok ? whether it will come on lucid or not?05:15
ajmitchsuji11: it was uploaded, it's in the queue for archive admins to check05:19
suji11ajmitch: ok05:19
StevenKsuji11: Accepted.05:28
suji11StevenK: where could i check that?05:30
StevenKsuji11: The queue where new stuff lands is https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+queue ; and iok is now at https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iok05:31
suji11StevenK: Ok, Thank you:)05:33
LLStarksguys. shouldn't apt-get install deluge install deluged?05:40
LLStarksdeluge 1.2 requires the daemon.05:40
LLStarksby default.05:41
crimsunStevenK: would you promote libffado (MIR bug #416778) and jack-audio-connection-kit (MIR bug #510481), please?05:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 416778 in libffado "[MIR] libffado" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41677805:45
ubottuLaunchpad bug 510481 in jack-audio-connection-kit "[MIR] Jack-audio-connection-kit" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/51048105:45
StevenKcrimsun: Done.05:57
crimsunStevenK: thanks!05:58
SoftwareExplorerSo, I'm working on a package with a quilt patching system.  I added a patch, told quilt what files I would change, changed them, ran quilt refresh. Do I pop the patches before I run debuild?06:01
LLStarksbug #52362206:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 523622 in deluge "deluged needs to be installed with deluge" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52362206:02
nigelbSoftwareExplorer: I believe yes.06:03
SoftwareExplorernigelb: Hmm, Maybe I'm doing something wrong. When I pop the patches, debuild fails because it's trying to sign with someone else's key.06:04
nigelbSoftwareExplorer: did you "dch -i"?06:05
nigelbupdated change log with your email yet?06:05
SoftwareExplorernigelb: Yes.06:05
SoftwareExplorernigelb: but of course, that's part of the new patch.06:05
nigelbokay, so the last entry in debian/changelog has your email ID and your key is set up?06:06
nigelbthe signing with someone else's key failure happens when one of them is not done06:06
SoftwareExplorernigelb: yes, as long as the latest patch is applied, but I thought debuild automatically work around that06:07
fabrice_sparghhh: I ack'd a sync 2 hours ago, but we are in Feature Freeze now, right? (Topic is not up-to-date, it seems)06:07
SoftwareExplorernigelb: (I got the impression I should pop the patches from the wiki, maybe that was wrong)06:08
StevenKIt isn't Thursday where the release manager lives ....06:08
fabrice_spoooh: cool06:10
nigelbSoftwareExplorer: appologies, lost power.  You still have issues?06:16
fabrice_spa question about Bug 514292 .If it's a sync, how can I upload it? Adding a fake ubuntu entry?06:16
ubottuLaunchpad bug 514292 in ubuntu "Sync mingw-w64 0~20100125-3 (universe) from Debian testing (main)" [Wishlist,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/51429206:16
SoftwareExplorernigelb: Um, well unless someone says I shouldn't, I'm leaning toward leaving the patches applied to run debuild06:17
SoftwareExplorernigelb: otherwise debian/control will not have the correct email address06:17
SoftwareExplorernigelb: *changelog06:17
nigelbSoftwareExplorer: wait, what does the patch do?06:18
StevenKSoftwareExplorer: They shouldn't be applied, the build should do that first06:18
* fabrice_sp will upload it as build106:18
SoftwareExplorerStevenK: Modifies 2 .c files, changelog, and I just realized it should modify control file to06:19
nigelbthe patch shouldn06:19
nigelbthe patch shouldn't be modifying changelog06:19
StevenKSoftwareExplorer: Exactly as nigelb says, you should not be modifying files under debian/ with quilt, you should just edit them straight06:20
SoftwareExplorerStevenK: Ahh, ok.06:20
SoftwareExplorerThat's why it wasn't working06:21
nigelbquilt is only for the actual source code of the app.06:21
SoftwareExplorernigelb: Ok, Thanks.06:22
SoftwareExplorerStevenK: Thanks.06:22
suji11StevenK: whats needed now so that I can see iok appearing in search at http://packages.ubuntu.com/07:13
StevenKI have no idea, I use Launchpad directly07:14
eeexceptionHi, guys. I'm trying to make deb package of my qt project and have some troubles. I use this script to make deb http://code.google.com/p/yourownnewsmaker/source/browse/trunk/make-linux-release.sh,07:35
eeexceptionand this rules file http://code.google.com/p/yourownnewsmaker/source/browse/trunk/rules07:35
eeexceptionSo during running it I have no errors except warning that I do not have pgp key, but as a result I get an empty deb packages with only these empty roots:07:35
eeexception/usr/bin; usr/sbin; /usr/share.07:35
eeexceptionBy the way if I manually go to the builddir and run make install, Makefile script creates all needed files in right place.07:35
eeexceptionSo I suppose that I have an error in section install: of rules file, but do not understand it at all. Could you help me to fix this problem?07:35
SoftwareExplorerI dput a source.changes to a ppa, but nothing seems to happen. I've given it a couple of hours and it doesn't even list anything a building. What could I be doing wrong?07:41
eeexceptionBy the way I used this manual to create rules file http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging_a_Qt_application07:42
kklimondacan I somehow build package that is using new source format on/for karmic?07:45
SoftwareExplorerAlso, launchpad says "               Package counters and estimated archive size temporarily               unavailable.07:49
SoftwareExplorerI also tried disabling the ppa and reinabling it, but nothing happend07:54
dholbachgood morning08:03
=== debfx_ is now known as debfx
suji11dholbach:  good morning..08:51
suji11dholbach: My package iok was accepted, it is here https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/iok/1.3.9-0ubuntu1 in lauchpad , how could i get this from packages.ubuntu.com08:56
dholbachsuji11: it might take some time08:56
suji11dholbach: ok08:56
dholbachit hasn't built on all architectures yet08:57
dholbachand while the source is in the archive already, the binary (.deb files) are still in a separate queue08:57
suji11dholbach: when i search iok here https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid it shows No packages matching 'iok' are published in Lucid.08:58
dholbachyes because of what I said above08:58
dholbachand I can't fix it08:58
dholbachLucid:   amd64 (New)   armel   i386 (New)   ia64   powerpc (New)   sparc08:58
dholbachthat's what (New) means there08:59
suji11 dholbach: ok, should i do anything for that?08:59
dholbachbinary new = binary packages (=.deb files) are in a queue for the archive admins08:59
dholbachthe archive admins will get around to it08:59
suji11dholbach: ok, then i don't have to do anything now. am right?09:00
suji11dholbach: ok09:02
stochasticCan anyone with upload powers look at the patch for building xine against jack on Bug #152487 before feature freeze becomes solid?09:42
ubottuLaunchpad bug 152487 in xine-lib "Jack output for xine apps " [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15248709:42
hypera1ryou mean it's not solid yet?10:07
directhexhypera1r, it's still a little squishy, as long as people don't take the piss10:08
hypera1rsquishy eh10:08
hypera1rstochastic: i think that patch is reversed.10:09
oojahI guess there are a lot of features to freeze, so it takes some time for them all to cool down.10:09
sebnerhypera1r: do you got your cowpowers already?10:09
stochastichypera1r, oops, I'll fix that up right now10:09
hypera1rsebner: er no.10:10
hypera1rsebner: not yet. =(10:10
sebnerhypera1r: urgh!10:10
hypera1rsebner: bad time to become motu huh =p10:10
hypera1rstochastic: also, it seems like you chopped off the trailing \n in libxine1-misc-plugins.install10:11
stochasticI really didn't mean to.10:11
stochastici.e. I don't know how that happened10:11
hypera1rstochastic: nevermind, just put it back =)10:11
sebnerhypera1r: heh, I can remember .. some years ago the best time was after a release10:12
hypera1rsebner: why?10:12
sebnerhypera1r: Before release is more dangerous, after release you can break anything you want10:13
hypera1rsebner: aah i see. heheh10:13
stochastichypera1r, changes made.10:16
=== hypera1r is now known as hyperair
hyperairwell, reading the patch, it looks good to me.10:18
stochasticcan you upload it or do you not have the powers?10:19
Laneynobody pressed the buttons from the DMB yet?10:20
sebnerhi Laney :)10:21
Laneyhi hi10:25
slytherindo we have any special policy in regards with (against) FFE?10:35
stochasticBoth Bug #360590  and Bug #152487 were awaiting a MIR approval that went through just 4hours ago.  They both have patches ready to be uploaded and if anyone is willing the entire Ubuntu Studio team would love for them to be uploaded.10:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 360590 in ubuntustudio "Please compile portaudio with Jack support" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36059010:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 152487 in xine-lib "Jack output for xine apps " [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15248710:38
=== rulus_ is now known as rulus
paissadhi all, i would like to add an interactive mode during the installation of my package to allow  choose a specific directory ( it's for a configuration file ) .... an example is ddclient configuration during installation for those who know it11:49
slytherinpaissad: you need to use debconf11:50
paissadslytherin, ok thanks11:51
Laneyis there a benefit to allowing this?11:53
slytherinCan any oython packaging experts take a look at python-scriptutil package from lucid and tell me why it would cause installation failure?12:04
james_wslytherin: is this a test?12:14
PATXcan somebody review http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/fastpatx ?12:25
slytherinjames_w: No. libmx4j-java is FTBFS because its build-dep javahelper fails to install because python-scriptutil fails to install.12:28
james_wslytherin: do you have a log or anything?12:28
slytherinjust a sec12:29
slytherinjames_w: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libmx4j-java/3.0.2-8/+build/1484191/+files/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-i386.libmx4j-java_3.0.2-8_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz12:29
hakaishiHi everyone! Anyone up to advocate/review qt-shutdown-p? - I've replaced the multiple start prevention and did some code cleanups. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qt-shutdown-p12:31
james_wslytherin: it's uninstallable rather than failing to install due to a postinst error or similar12:32
james_wso it's probably not python-specific knowledge that is needed12:33
slytherinjames_w: It has only two dependencies both are satisfiable in lucid. So I am really wondering if this has something to do with python transition. The package has not changed for last 3 releases.12:33
james_wit needs a retry since scriptutil was promoted to main12:34
slytherinjames_w: Can you give it a retry? I don't have permissions.12:35
slytherinjames_w: thanks12:39
hakaishiAnyone up to review/advocate qt-shutdown-p? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/qt-shutdown-p12:51
highvoltagedholbach: does core-dev imply motu as well?12:55
highvoltagedholbach: I generally thought that people become motu first before core-dev, is there a reason why mako wouldn't be able to get revu rights? http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/details.py?upid=787612:56
Laneycore-dev is a member of motu12:57
Laneyyou need to be made a reviewer by a REVU admin manually12:58
highvoltagenhandler: do you perhaps have some time to add mako as a reviewer on revu?13:05
sistpoty|workhighvoltage: just done it13:06
sebnerhuhu sistpoty|work13:06
nhandlerhighvoltage: One second13:06
sistpoty|workhi sebner13:06
highvoltagesistpoty|work, nhandler: thanks!13:06
nhandlerAh, beat me to it ;)13:07
=== lionel_ is now known as lionel
wrapsterif i try apt-get install on any pkg i see this error...13:37
wrapster E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable)13:38
wrapsterE: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?13:38
akheronwrapster: as it says, another process is using it13:38
wrapsterbut that is the only process using it13:38
wrapsteri checked for it.. im the only one on that machine as of now.13:38
wrapsterand it ws working fine all the while...13:39
akheronis there an apt-get or dpkg process stopped in the background?13:39
akherondid you check ps aux output that there's no other process?13:39
wrapsterbut i did a ^c on apt-get and after that , Im seeing such issues.13:40
wrapsterwas it wrong?13:40
slytherinjames_w: FYI ... libmx4j-java built fine on all arch.13:44
highvoltage"scratch (1.4.0.debian.20)" - that's a valid version number for an Ubuntu native package right?13:50
sebnersistpoty|work: it seems this will be the first FF Cycle where we can't do deep QA *hohohohoh*13:53
hyperairhighvoltage: yes, but i think that package shouldn't be made a native package.13:53
sistpoty|worksebner: hm?13:54
sebnersistpoty|work: lack of games :\13:54
sistpoty|worksebner: ah13:55
highvoltagehyperair: what do you suggest?13:57
hyperairhighvoltage: a non-native package.13:57
hyperairhighvoltage: svn export it out and tarball it13:58
bmhmhi there, can packages for lucid still be changed?14:29
sebnerbmhm: depending on what you understand under "changed"14:30
bmhmjust a tiny bug report, bug #20020414:30
ubottuLaunchpad bug 200204 in linux-libertine "Packaging request: Either replace TTF with OTF or make two packages available" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/20020414:30
bmhmwould be a big improvement for few effort, I think14:30
sebnerbmhm: hmm, pretty late for something new14:33
bmhmI guessed so, the bad thing is that I found this bug too late :-(14:34
bmhmthen better remove the nomination if it's too late14:34
sebnerbmhm: I'm sorry, I don't really know who is the right person for font stuff14:36
shadeslayerbmhm: what i would suggest is to leave it like that14:43
bmhmseems pretty easy to do, I might upload own packages to my PPA14:43
shadeslayerbmhm: dholbach_ is your man :)14:43
bmhmI see, thx14:44
bmhmI think it should be reported upstream14:53
rhpot1991got a general license question, not ubuntu specific but I'd love to hear some opinions.  I have a license header on the top of all my source files, do/should I need to worry about putting this same header into the top of machine generated code?16:00
sistpoty|workrhpot1991: no need to do that. However I'd put "generated by <scriptname>" in there, so that it's clear that the code is generated (and I think licensecheck uses "generated by" as a regexp)16:02
bddebianHeya gang16:11
sebnerhuhu bddebian :)16:11
bddebianHeya sebner16:11
rhpot1991sistpoty|work: thanks16:11
sistpoty|workhi bddebian16:12
bddebianHi sistpoty|work16:12
* Rhonda waves to bddebian ;)16:14
bddebianHi Rhonda16:14
rhpot1991sistpoty|work: thoughts on machine generated configuration files, say xml?16:25
cody-somervillexml sucks for config files16:28
rhpot1991well in this batch of code its .net, so this is Visual Studio generated garbage16:28
sistpoty|workrhpot1991: I assume visual studio doesn't restrict the distribution of these in any way? if so, just ignore them16:31
christoph_debianubuntu's already in feature-freeze? /me should double check but debbug 567812 should affect ubuntu as well17:18
Laneydebian bug 56781217:19
ubottuDebian bug 567812 in cl-irc "cl-irc: Doesn't load with flexistreams 1.0.$something" [Grave,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/56781217:19
Laneybug fixes are almost always alright to sync17:19
christoph_debianjep and it's minimal17:19
christoph_debianI'll probably go and request the sync after verigfying it's there17:20
Laneygood stuff17:21
LaibschHow can I withdraw a request for sponsorship on REVU?17:39
persiaLaibsch: It can be archived.  Which package?17:48
LaibschI found the knob now, thanks17:49
Laibschyour interpretation about the isdnutils situation seems to have been correct17:50
Laibschthank you for preventing me from wasting any further time17:51
persiaI'm not saying it can't be done, only that it needs review.17:51
persiaIf you think it ought be fixed, please file for a freeze exception.17:51
LaibschI'll build the package locally17:53
LaibschWhy expend an increasing amount of effort?17:54
Laibschwhen that effort mostly does not find an echo in a timely reaction17:55
Laibschand thus bitrot will necessitate even more work next time round17:56
persiaLaibsch: The other alternative is to just wait until the archive opens, and then push for it to get in then.17:58
persiaThe trick is to not try to get new stuff between FeatureFreeze and Release.17:58
Laibschthat's what I did six months ago17:59
Laibschnot again17:59
persiasix months ago was also right after FeatureFreeze.  The secret number is three months.17:59
Laibschpersia: OK, OK18:05
Laibschthat's what I did eight months ago18:05
Laibschand nothing happening in between18:05
LaibschThank you for pointing out the knob18:05
BlackZhow can I make a changelog/debdiff between two upstream versions?18:12
hyperairdebdiff bla_source.changes bla2_source.changes18:13
hyperairor debdiff bla.dsc bla2.dsc18:13
BlackZhyperair: thanks18:15
hyperairBlackZ: you can find out more by typing "man debdiff" in a terminal, or searching for man:debdiff in yelp18:15
randomactionWhat's generally preferred, a 99_autoconf.patch or b-dep on autoconf+automake + autoreconf in rules?18:24
kklimondaprobably depends - desktop team prefers 99_autoreconf patch18:25
persiarandomaction: maintainer preference.  I prefer the latter, because it auto-ports to new environments.  Some people prefer the former, because it is then possible to repeat a build.18:25
directhexmono team prefers the latter18:25
directhexsince we don't need to refresh the 99_autoconf.patch for every single bloody minor update to the autohell stack18:26
hyperairpersia: it's also possible to repeat a build for the latter.18:26
persiahyperair: Not always, because autotools-dev can have new stuff.18:26
hyperairmy preference is to patch the autohell generated files individually, if it isn't too much.18:26
hyperairstuff like adding new files to Makefile.am can be added to Makefile.in trivially18:27
hyperairchanging flags as well18:27
hyperairand maybe minor changes in configure.ac18:27
persiaThat's harder to submit upstream, or even carry over to the next release though.18:27
hyperairi submit my patch upstream, *then* i put it into the package and add the Makefile.in/configure bits18:27
hyperairbut either way, it's not too hard to just strip away the Makefile.in/configure bits of the patch18:28
hyperairvim and the visual line mode works wonderfully for that18:28
hyperairor filterdiff or whatever that utility was called..18:29
persiafilterdiff indeed.18:29
randomactionfor 99*patch, I like that there are no additional build-deps and build actions, but it's usually a big patch and it needs more maintenance18:30
persiaBut not that much maintainance, if it's just an autoreconf patch.18:32
persiaOn upgrade, delete it and regenerate.18:33
randomactionin this case I think I'll settle for build-time autoreconf because I need to modify m4/gettext.m418:33
stochasticBoth Bug #360590  and Bug #152487 were awaiting a MIR approval that went through just a few hours ago.  They both have patches ready to be uploaded and if anyone is willing the entire Ubuntu Studio team would love for them to be uploaded.  I realize this is pushing into the FF a little much, do I need to get FFE bugs written up for these?18:50
ubottuLaunchpad bug 360590 in ubuntustudio "Please compile portaudio with Jack support" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/36059018:50
ubottuLaunchpad bug 152487 in xine-lib "Jack output for xine apps " [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15248718:50
hyperairanyone from motu-release? ^^19:14
persiamotu-release is no more: long live ubuntu-release19:15
hyperairheh right19:16
sebnerpersia: Have the members merged too?19:16
hyperairi keep forgetting19:16
fabrice_spSome to update the topic to mention Feature Freeze?19:18
fabounetBlackZ : Hi, what about the builds of Cairo-Dock 2.1.3 ?19:18
fabounetIs there somewhere I could see the results ?19:18
BlackZfabounet: I'm building it19:20
fabounetBlackZ : ok, was there any problem with the build yesterday ?19:21
fabounetBlackZ : by the way I've noticed that someone has launched the builds of the 2.0.9. I see no reason for building this old version since it's not maintained anymore. Do you have any info about it ?19:22
BlackZfabounet: I have started to work on it today - no, I haven't19:22
fabounetBlackZ : ah ok, I thought you did it yesterday. Do you know how much time it may take ?19:23
BlackZfabounet: it depends, for now I have applied the patch and fixed the build issues19:23
fabounetBlackZ : ok, thanks, I'll wait then.19:24
persiasebner: Read your mail for the latest updates :)19:25
BlackZfabounet: I think I'll end for sun19:25
BlackZfabounet: if I don't answer here, probably I'm away, btw you can reply to the bug or send me an e-mail19:27
sebnerhrm ^^19:27
BlackZfabounet: or you can let a pm19:27
fabounetBlackZ: yep sure, where is this bug ?19:27
BlackZbug #52153619:28
BlackZbug #52153419:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 521536 in cairo-dock-plug-ins "Please update cairo-dock-plug-ins to 2.1.3-3 version" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52153619:28
ubottuLaunchpad bug 521534 in cairo-dock "Please update cairo-dock to 2.1.3-3 version" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52153419:28
fabounetBlackZ: have you a mail address where I could contact you when you're away on IRC ?19:28
fabounetBlackZ: ok I see thanks. I'll reply them19:28
BlackZfabounet: you can find it on launchpad, by registring yourself19:29
FLOZzhello _o/20:03
directhexbddebian, what're the chances of taking a look at mono in debian NEW? it's largely what was there before, but with some non-dfsg elements replaced upstream (and, as a result, a new binary package, hence NEW). this is the version i want in lucid, give or take20:23
* Rhonda wonders, libsdl1.2 1.2.14 was synced into lucid though that has a major bug that affects at least wesnoth …20:30
Rhondawesnoth developers discussed it with libsdl upstream and they confirmed that there's something fishy going on. In Debian we managed to keep 1.2.14 out of squeeze through a release-critical bugreport, but like said, it did manage to get into lucid  :-/20:31
sebnerRhonda: manually? autosyncs are nasty ...20:32
Rhondasebner: Only could have happened manually because it never was in squeeze and from what I understood autosync only happens from squeeze this time and not from unstable?20:33
sebnerRhonda: right20:33
* sebner looks20:33
RhondaI am not interested in who did request the sync, I'm especially not interested in "blaming" someone.20:34
bddebianI think dtchen brought it from experimental20:34
bddebiandirecthex: I'll see what I can do20:34
sebnerRhonda: who -> contact -> gives you a reason20:35
RhondaI just want to bring up the issue - but I have no real clue what would be possible to work around that …20:35
bddebianFix the bug! ;-P20:35
Rhondasebner: Pardon?20:35
Rhondabddebian: If it would be that easy the bug would have been fixed in Debian since weeks already.20:35
persiaDoes it look like there can be a fix in the next couple months?20:36
persiaOtherwise we'd have to do 1.2.14+really... or something20:36
RhondaAh, right, have seen such versioning games in the past.20:36
RhondaI fear the bug isn't easy to fix. :/20:36
* c_korn found bug 49133520:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 491335 in libsdl1.2 "SDL 1.12.13 needs upgrading to version 1.2.14" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49133520:38
persiaRhonda: Do you happen to know the Debian RC bug offhand?20:39
ajmitchlucid's sdl was upgraded before the debian bug was filed, by the look of things20:39
ubottuDebian bug 565788 in libsdl1.2debian-all "Upgrading SDL breaks Wesnoth" [Critical,Open]20:39
RhondaYes, 56578820:39
RhondaThanks ajmitch for being faster. :)20:39
* ajmitch had it open there :)20:39
* sebner kicks his router for being laggy again20:40
ajmitchlooks like it was upgrade for good reasons, and needs fixed/downgraded for good reasons as well20:40
RhondaInteresting, fix released for something undecided?  :P20:40
persiaRhonda: People aren't always best about setting status :)20:40
Rhondaoh! bddebian!20:41
Rhondabddebian fixed #557711 in debian. bad bddebian :D20:41
ajmitchnow to find a version that doesn't have a serious regression20:42
RhondaLooks like both versions do have their issues.  %-/20:42
randomactionlooks like downgrading will break other apps20:43
randomactionUbuntu and Debian have different X, right? Maybe Wesnoth in Ubuntu isn't broken (this needs testing at least)20:44
Rhondarandomaction: Sure, that would be something to test indeed.20:45
ajmitchthe wesnoth problem also looks to be WM-related, according to those bug reports20:45
Rhondawindow manager20:46
ajmitchonly happening on some window managers20:46
Rhondaso s/related/specific/ :)20:47
persiaWhich seems confusing to me, because SDL tries to capture everything.20:47
Rhondapersia: If you want to have fun take a look at what libsdl-net offers. Then you might understand how "universal" sdl _really_ is.20:48
* Rhonda . o O ( short story: not much )20:48
ajmitchit's only when running the game in windowed mode, upstream report at http://bugzilla.libsdl.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89420:48
ubottubugzilla.libsdl.org bug 894 in events "After SDL 1.2.14 update, wesnoth doesn't accept mouse clicks in windowed mode" [Normal,Waiting]20:48
persiaRhonda: I know.  The goal is there, but ...20:48
RhondaThere was something that you can't make it bind to a specific interface only: If you give it an interface IP it behaves like a client.20:49
ajmitchthat's a bit weird20:49
Rhondafun things like that ;)20:49
jfcg6hi. i have an external usb hard disk with ext4. when inserted it is auto mounted with (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=devkit). i also want to have "noatime" mount option. how do i add that to "auto mount options"?21:04
persiajfcg6: You want to ask that either in #ubuntu or #ubuntu+1 if you're running lucid.21:04
jfcg6i did but got an answer for modifying fstab file which is for statis fs info21:05
jfcg6i dont think that is what i should do21:05
jfcg6should be something about devkit21:06
persiaYou might be right.21:06
persiaBut this channel is just very much not the right place.  We tend to maintain otherwise unmaintained software on the edges of the distribution.21:06
persiaAnd the problem you describe doesn't sound like it falls in that area.21:06
jfcg6ic thx21:07
persiaSo, either keep pushing at the regular support channels, or file a bug (which may be invalid if it's not really a bug)/21:07
ScottKThere's also the buy a support contract option.21:16
* persia always forgets that one21:17
fabounetBlackZ : may I know how is going the build ?21:23
fabounetIs this page the right one to see when they are finished ? https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+builds?build_state=all&build_text=cairo-dock21:23
jfcg6im failing to find "file a bug" link on bugs.launchpad.net, am i looking at the wrong place?21:29
persiajfcg6: Try running `ubuntu-bug` locally.21:32
arandIf there anything in particular that has to be done for pbuilder to change the repo mirror it uses, I've changed the global one but pbuilder still pulls from the old one.21:37
arands/If/is/ s/./?/21:37
persiaarand: You have to edit pbuilder-dist21:42
arandpersia: so it "soft-locks" itself on first run?21:43
arandpersia: Ah, pbuilder-dist is a command.. Though it was just config file that gets set on first-run of pb.21:47
persiaIt may be both.  I know very little about pbuilder, except from running it once, and editing pbuilder-dist once.21:47
geserwhat should work is to login into your pbuilder (with --save-after-login) and edit /etc/apt/sources.list21:50
arandWhen running debuild -S, complaints about nonexistent original tar, should one care?22:26
arand(this when using a ~blah-ppa1 rename)22:26
azeemarand: does it mean it builds a native package?22:26
azeemi.e. no .diff.gz22:26
lifelessarand: what is a ~blah-ppa1 rename22:27
vorianit's just a renaming for ppa reasons /me thinks22:28
arandnautilus_2.28.1-0ubuntu3.1~arand-ppa1, edited in dch -i (doing it wrong?)22:28
vorianarand: to andwer your first question, it doesn't matter as long as the builder knows which source to use22:29
vorianie, orig.tar.gz22:29
arandAh, yes, I do get a nautilus_2.28.1-0ubuntu3.1~arand-ppa1.tar.gz, so is there any way to point debuild to the right orig archive?22:32
vorianwhat do you mean?22:32
arandvorian: like azeem pointed out, I get no diff.gz, which I guess isn't an ideal situation..22:33
vorianyou need to make sure your changelog version matches your tar file22:33
persiaFor the upstream part.22:34
azeemor make sure the tarfile is actually present22:34
persiachangelog has ${VERSION}-${REVISION}, and only ${VERSION} has to match.22:34
arandhm, ok, seems like it doesn't like the two-part ~arand-ppa1 whereas ~ppa1 works, well well, so be it.22:36
jariqI've read that I can use pbuilder on ubuntu to build packages for debian sid. But to test if debian package is functional I need to install sid right ?22:50
persiaWell, kinda.22:50
persiaThere are ways to access chroots that let you do some testing of some things.22:51
persiaSo it really depends on what you are testing.22:51
jariqBut when using chroot I am still under ubuntu kernel?22:51
persia(but I don't know how to manipulate or share environment with pbuilder chroots, so someone else may have to suggests runes for your grimoire)22:52
persiaIf you're testing anything kernel related, chroot testing can't help at all.22:52
jariqok so I will try to install sid once again22:54
persiaYou can always use a VM22:55
persiaOr if sid is hard to install, install squeeze and dist-upgrade.22:55
jariqi installed lenny and then tried to dist-upgrade to sid but too many packages failed22:56
ari-tczewcould someone look @ bug 521390 and check my debdiff?22:57
ubottuLaunchpad bug 521390 in junitperf "Merge junitperf 1.9.1-7 (main) from Debian testing (main)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52139022:57
sebnerari-tczew: you have a) a comment b) it's in main so -devel might a better place to ask c) it's not before FF so not super urgent so you might want to wait until a sponsor shows up without asking every time in the chan ;)23:01
paissadE: pms-linux source: not-using-po-debconf23:04
paissaddo no tell me that i have to create translations for all languages in debian/po ^^23:04
ari-tczewsebner: I asked here, because I hope that someone from MOTU know answer for dholbach question in the bug. I'm not master developer, I just make debdiffs.23:04
sebnerari-tczew: then you should specify that and of course you don't need to be master but you should know why you do some changes23:05
persiaari-tczew: More importantly, if you don't know why you're changing something, you should think twice about changing it.23:07
paissadis there a tool which create debian/po/ files  from a debian/$package_name.template  ?23:08
ari-tczewpersia, sebner: I only move changes from delta into latest testing revision, lol23:08
paissadhere is my template23:09
paissadbut i do  not have a debian/po directory yet23:09
sebnerari-tczew: that's certainly not the right attitude.23:09
persiaari-tczew: I understand.  But my contention is that if you want to contribute to Ubuntu, you should understand what it is that you are contributing.23:10
sebnerari-tczew: a) look at the changes that have been made in the past b) understand them c) look if you can drop them (maybe Debian included them) d) use the changes for the next version if you think it's necessary and/or adjust them if necessary23:11
ari-tczewsebner, persia: I can do nothing for Ubuntu and at all and leave more outdated merges for you, do you want?23:13
persiaari-tczew: I think there's somewhere between those two values.23:13
persiaari-tczew: I strongly suspect that you're capable of understanding some of the changes, or learning to do so.23:13
persiaAnd if you do that, then I *very much* want you to keep sending patches.23:14
sebnerari-tczew: We are thankful for your help but this is really the wrong attitude23:14
persiaGetting a patch for every Debian upload is perhaps less interesting, as it distracts the sponsors from other work that is known to fix specific bugs.23:14
persiaari-tczew: If you have questions about a given patch, or similar, please ask.23:16
persiaari-tczew: But do so *before* bothering with the merge work.23:16
ari-tczewpersia: I asked @ 23:5723:17
persiaYou asked someone to check your debdiff.23:17
persiaWhat I'm suggesting is you might ask something specific about a change.23:17
persiaFor instance "What virtual packages are good for Java for lucid?"23:18
ari-tczewI think that dholbach give a suggest for sync package23:18
persiaPart of the work is in asking that kind of question.23:18
persia(because you have to understand how to translate the patch into English)23:18
ari-tczewthen I asked here, because I'm not sure, because I'm not a developer master, because I don't know ALL23:19
persiaOK.  Let's try this differently.  What questions do you have about the patch?23:20
ari-tczewthe delta is:23:23
ari-tczew-Depends: default-jre-headless | java1-runtime-headless | java2-runtime-headless |23:23
ari-tczew+Depends: default-jre-headless | java2-runtime-headless |23:23
ari-tczewis it necessary?23:23
persiaWell, what does it do?23:24
ari-tczew+    - debian/control: Runtime depend on headless JREs23:25
persiaThat's what the changelog says.  What does it do?23:26
ari-tczewI don't know23:26
persiaAnd that is why you got asked in the bug :)23:27
persiaSo, What does Depends: mean in a control file?23:27
ari-tczewDepends is depends on packages needed for work23:28
persiaOK.  And what does '|' mean in a Depends: line?23:28
ari-tczewThis is always enigma for me :)23:28
ari-tczewI don't know. Maybe do you tell me?23:29
persiahttp://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/ubuntu-policy/policy.html/ch-relationships.html is worth reading then :)23:29
* persia is not going to answer dholbach's question, but will help to get it answered23:29
* sebner also advices to read the packaging guide23:30
cjwatsonpaissad: 'man po-debconf'23:30
sebnerTo know what's living in debian/*23:31
cjwatson(install the po-debconf package if you don't already have it)23:31
ari-tczewpersia: ok what's next?23:33
cjwatsonI think perhaps ari-tczew's problems may be a symptom of us recommending merging as something that trainee developers can do before they really know what's going on23:33
* persia agrees23:33
persiaari-tczew: OK.  So, waht does '|' mean?23:33
cjwatsonmerging is often not straightforward at all and can require deep understanding - if we're presenting it as a "getting started" task, that's our fault23:33
persiaWe've changed that a couple times, but it inevitably gets added back somehow.23:34
persiaThe issue being that getting people to look at fixing bugs is hard.  We need to get better at building a set of stuff that is easy to fix as candidates.23:34
persiaBut in many cases, it's easier to just fix them.23:35
sebnerpersia: cjwatson We have byte-size bugs to start with23:35
persiasebner: Have you looked at the bitesize list recently?  It needs help getting bigger.23:35
sebnerpersia: that's true and most merges are not difficult so it's clear that many start with merges23:35
sebnercjwatson: btw, thanks again for fixing dpkg :)23:36
cjwatsonyou're welcome23:36
persiawell, except, it's really easy to get merges wrong.23:36
persiaOr to make a change that we *don't* want, just because it's shiny.23:36
sebnerlike bumping Standards-Version?23:36
cjwatsonthe problem with the merge queue is that the difficulty level is completely nonlinear23:36
persiaThat's harmless, but useless.23:36
cjwatsona bunch of trivial stuff, mixed in with some rocket science, and there's no way to tell in advance23:37
* sebner thinks about courier and shivers23:37
cjwatsonperhaps we need a way to note merges as bitesize or hard23:37
cjwatsonI suppose we have MoM comments23:37
persiaWe do, but distinguishing the two isn't that much harder than doing the merges.23:38
sebner+ better changelog entries explaining *why* a change was made. /me still seems a great lack there23:38
ari-tczewpersia: english isn't my native language, but I think that "|" works following: that package can work java1-runtime-headless and can work with java2-runtime-headless ; correct me if I'm wrong23:38
persiaari-tczew: That's right.23:39
persiaari-tczew: So, what does the diff do?23:39
ari-tczewhmm, currect delta prefer to use java2-runtime-headless, not java1-runtime-headless23:41
persiaNo preference, really.  Just dropping support for dava1-runtime-headless.23:42
persiaNow, does the package *work* with java1, or does it require java2?  Also, do we have a java1-runtime-headless package?23:42
cjwatsonsebner: *shrug* maybe I'm arrogant, but I've seen newcomers make a thorough mess of installer merges, and I prefer to put this down to inexperience with installer code rather than my poor changelog entries ;-)23:42
cjwatsonit's often a bit of both23:43
persiaari-tczew: Once you dig up the answers to those questions, you should know if this is something we want.23:43
sebnercjwatson: I really didn't want to attack anyone personally and especially not *you*, mighty colin ;)23:43
cjwatsonsebner: I didn't take it as an attack :)23:44
ari-tczewpersia: packages.ubuntu.com says: Sorry, your search gave no results23:44
cjwatsonnor am I fishing for compliments - just noting that sometimes it really is OK to put things down to lack of experience from the merger if that's what it is23:44
cjwatsonanyway, bed23:44
sebnercjwatson: totally right. gn8 /me too :)23:45
ari-tczewpersia: I checked packages.ubuntu.com for java2-runtime-headless and it doesn't exist too! wtf?23:45
cjwatsonari-tczew: packages.ubuntu.com won't list virtual packages.  the tools in the dctrl-tools package may come in handy.23:45
cjwatson(if you don't know what a virtual package is, go back to the policy document.)23:45
ari-tczewcjwatson: I'm very tired after work and I f_ck the policy23:46
cjwatsonI shan't bother trying to help you again, then!23:46
sebnerari-tczew: If you are really that tired and don't care about the policy you should save your time for something else than ubuntu ..23:49
cjwatsonI'd much rather point people to documentation (which they can read around in and find out more in their own time), rather than repeating little bits of the documentation on demand.  If that doesn't suit you, I'm sorry.  Good night.23:49
* sebner says gn8 too23:51
ari-tczewhmm, other words: maybe I don't f_ck the policy, but a milions clauses are boring23:53
ari-tczewand as I said english isn't my native language so sometimes I don't see sense for reading these documentations if I''ll not understand these23:54
persiaari-tczew: If you don't understand the policy, you are going to have a hard time understanding how the packaging works, or why it might be done that way.23:54
ari-tczewand sorry for bad words23:55
persiaWe will happily answer questions about the policy, but you are expected to read it.23:55
ari-tczewpersia: can we back into review debdiff?23:55
persiaari-tczew: I didn't know we stopped.  You were investigating about the virtual packages, and which were correct for this package.23:57
ari-tczewI think that virtual package is a package, which was a normal package but now it name has been changed, is it right?23:58

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