[00:27] <Nafai> In launchpad, how do I set the importance of a bug I just filed?
[00:31] <jcastro> Nafai: there's a yellow ! symbol next to the importance
[00:31] <jcastro> click on it and you should see an ajaxy thing to set it
[00:31] <Nafai> There isn't on this one :(
[00:31] <jcastro> link?
[00:31] <Nafai> Is it because it isn't assigned to me?
[00:31] <Nafai> https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/524150
[00:31] <jcastro> probably
[00:31] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 524150 in indicator-application "Menus updated at runtime aren't rendered correctly (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
[00:31] <Nafai> Yeah, I've already assigned it to bratsche
[00:31] <jcastro> probably because you're not in the right group, I can set it for you
[00:32] <Nafai> Thanks
[00:32] <jcastro> high I take it?
[00:32] <Nafai> Yes, this is the blocker bug
[00:32] <jcastro> ok, I'll send david a mail about it to so they can discuss it during their daily stand up
[00:37] <Nafai> Thanks!
[00:37] <Nafai> I'm getting close on vino :)
[00:38] <jcastro> sweet! 
[00:38] <jcastro> man, rough day 
[00:41] <Nafai> Yeah, for me too.  I've been fighting off sickness the last couple of days
[03:22] <Nafai> launchpad is being odd
[03:22] <Nafai> jcastro: did you happen to unassign bugs from me?
[03:28] <Nafai> oh, nevermind, it was just showing me my in-progress bugs :)
[06:24] <tgpraveen12> hello after today's update and i got the new volume-indicator which fixes the bug that i filed that volume shoulb be changeable with the keyboard
[06:24] <tgpraveen12> but now there sia new problem
[06:24] <tgpraveen12> one cannot go to next/prev indicators using keyboard.
[06:25] <tgpraveen12> so if u cycle through ur indicators and reach volume -indicator u r stuck.
[15:05] <jpetersen> Hey
[15:07] <kklimonda> if the appindicator menu allows user to hide/show main window how should that be presented? a checkbox (ugly), a menu entry that toggles between "Show Application" and "Hide Application" or just "Show application" like in Rhythmbox?
[15:10] <tedg> jpetersen: I can't recreate that gpm bug easily.  You said you get it on every restart of the indicator-application-service?
[15:11] <hyperair> why would a checkbox be ugly?
[15:11] <hyperair> i kinda like the checkbox idea.
[15:12] <jpetersen> tedg, i have a patch which fixes attached to https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/523041
[15:12] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 523041 in gnome-power-manager (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 1 other project) "gnome-power-manager crashed with signal 5 in dbus_g_connection_register_g_object() (affects: 32) (dups: 2)" [Critical,Fix released]
[15:12] <tedg> kklimonda: I like the Rhythmbox way -- I think the check box in the corner of the window is a good "Hide" button ;)
[15:12] <jpetersen> tedg, one had to restart it multiple times to raise the bug
[15:12] <tedg> jpetersen: Cool!
[15:12] <kklimonda> hyperair: the menu looks ragged imo (I'm talking about Transmission)
[15:13] <hyperair> kklimonda: so we're stuffing everything into appindicator now?
[15:13] <kklimonda> hyperair: sure we do - that was the plan after all :)
[15:13] <hyperair> =\
[15:14] <hyperair> kklimonda: what's the point of shifting things from notification area to appindicator if it's just going to end up as a lump of applications all in one place again?
[15:14] <hyperair> kklimonda: in the first place, i don't see what's wrong with the notification area
[15:15] <kklimonda> hyperair: I don't like notification area or rather how applications use it - but I haven't made the decision anyway
[15:15] <hyperair> kklimonda: is there a screenshot i could take a look at?
[15:15] <hyperair> kklimonda: or is it like the messaging indicator
[15:15] <kklimonda> hyperair: you mean application indicator itself?
[15:16] <hyperair> kklimonda: yes.
[15:17] <hyperair> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/ApplicationIndicators <-- i don't see removing the legacy notification area as going to be pretty.
[15:18] <kklimonda> hyperair: it looks like that: http://syntaxhighlighted.com/~kklimonda/application-indicator.png
[15:18] <jpetersen> tedg, oh there is still a debug output in the patch
[15:18] <hyperair> stuff like wine apps which use the notification area will continue to live there
[15:18] <kklimonda> hyperair: the point is to make them all act in the same way
[15:18] <hyperair> kklimonda: where will wine systray icons live?
[15:18] <kklimonda> hyperair: the plan is to port all applications over to the appindicator for lucid+1
[15:19] <hyperair> kklimonda: including wine?
[15:19] <tedg> jpetersen: No issue, I'll get it out.
[15:19] <kklimonda> hyperair: appindicator is the implementation of the new protocol proposed by kde guys - hopefully we'll get it ratified by fd.o ;)
[15:20] <jpetersen> tedg, ok cool
[15:20] <kklimonda> hyperair: I'd guess that people will be able to add notification area for those few misbehaving applications
[15:20] <hyperair> kklimonda: ah, so it's not another new ubuntu-specific weirdness.
[15:20] <hyperair> i mean, at least it's going upstream.
[15:27] <tedg> jpetersen: Merged in trunk, thanks again for the patch!
[15:29] <kklimonda> mpt_: if the appindicator menu allows user to hide/show main window how should that be presented? a checkbox (ugly), a menu entry that toggles between "Show Application" and "Hide Application" or just "Show application" like in Rhythmbox? Is ther way rhythmbox does it the "right" one?
[15:30] <mpt_> kklimonda, if that's the main purpose of the menu, it shouldn't be in the panel at all: that's what minimizing is for. Otherwise, yes, "Show {Application Name}" is reasonable.
[15:32] <vish> mpt_: "show application" with a checkbox???
[15:32] <vish> Bug #498183 :(
[15:32] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 498183 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Rhythmbox menu does not recognize the player state (affects: 2)" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/498183
[15:32] <mpt_> vish, no, not with a checkbox.
[15:35] <kklimonda> mpt_: so no toggling between "Hide/Show {Application}" ?
[15:36] <mpt_> kklimonda, no. If the window is minimized, unminimize it. If it's unfocused, focus it. If it's already unminimized and focused, do nothing.
[15:38] <kklimonda> mpt_: and what about "Show {Application}" position? Should I follow Rhythmbox and move it to the bottom, over the Quit entry?
[15:39] <kklimonda> mpt_: and are all icons in the menu going to be gone in the final release?
[15:39] <vish> mpt_: what about rhythmbox's pause/play?   similarly transmission has a "enable/disable speed limit" option
[15:39] <jcastro> mpt_: npmccallum posted some questions on gnome ddl about app indicators, he's going to hang out a bit, if you can answer some of his questions that would be great.
[15:40] <mpt_> kklimonda, which menu?
[15:40] <jcastro> mpt_: he has a bunch which might take time so I've asked him to just hang out here in case you're overwhelmed more than usual. :D
[15:40] <npmccallum> mpt_: thanks jcastro, though I've got to run, so perhaps we can catch up later
[15:40] <kklimonda> mpt_: well - the one that is shown when you click on the application's icon in the indicator-menu
[15:41] <mpt_> vish, Rhythmbox has always had this weird idea that "Play" is something you have on or off. I don't know whether it would be weirder for its menu to be consistent with its toolbar, or to be consistent with every other music player.
[15:41] <mpt_> npmccallum, ok, see you later
[15:41] <mpt_> thanks jcastro 
[15:41] <npmccallum> mpt_: I've added the channel, so I'll idle here from now on
[15:42] <mpt_> kklimonda, which application?
[15:42] <kklimonda> mpt_: transmission - I was about to ask you to take a look at it ;)
[15:42] <npmccallum> mpt_: the best way would probably be to respond to my email on ddl
[15:43] <mpt_> npmccallum, ah, right, you're the Zenoss person. I have your message starred already. :-)
[15:43] <mpt_> kklimonda, Transmission is an example of an application that probably shouldn't be in the panel at all, really.
[15:43] <npmccallum> mpt_: awesome, look forward to it
[15:44] <kklimonda> mpt_: That has always been my opinion but people want this icon and I'd like to make it look as good as possible :)
[15:45] <mpt_> kklimonda, does <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CustomStatusMenuDesignGuidelines#icons> answer your question?
[15:46] <kklimonda> mpt_: according to this there should be no checkboxes nor icons
[16:10] <mpt> kklimonda, on the contrary, it allows both checkboxes and icons. One of the reasons for lining up the icons the way we do is so that, if necessary, an item can have both a checkbox *and* an icon (which standard GTK menus currently don't allow).
[16:11] <kklimonda> mpt: but the Correct image have all icons from Incorrent image removed :)
[16:12] <kklimonda> probably that's why I was confused
[16:12] <mpt> kklimonda, the reason I didn't show the checkbox in my Rhythmbox wireframe is partly that checkmarks in menus shouldn't have borders, like they don't in Windows or Mac OS (I've been nagging kwwii about that), and partly that Rhythmbox probably should have "Play"/"Pause" rather than "☐ Play"/"☑ Play" (as I said earlier to vish).
[16:13] <mpt> kklimonda, but the reason I drew that Rhythmbox drawing was to show that none of those particular items in the Rhythmbox menu should have icons. There are other items, in other menus, that should have icons.
[16:14] <vish> kklimonda: ^that would mean the "enable/disable temporary speed limit" 
[16:14] <kklimonda> right
[16:16] <vish> mpt: the play/pause thing might get fixed :)  >   Bug #71228  hopefully soonish .. upstream has been kinda open to a patch
[16:16] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 71228 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) (and 2 other projects) "Rhythmbox has no apparent pause button (affects: 7) (dups: 2)" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/71228
[16:19] <mpt> neat
[16:33] <mpt> kklimonda, I'll gladly add a sketch of a status menu that should have icons in it, but I haven't come across one yet. :-)
[16:34] <jcastro> jpetersen: you are pure rock and roll today!
[16:35] <jcastro> bratsche: https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/524150
[16:35] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 524150 in indicator-application "Menus updated at runtime aren't rendered correctly (affects: 1)" [High,Triaged]
[16:35] <jcastro> have you had a chance to look at this one?
[16:36] <jpetersen> jcastro, :)
[16:37] <bratsche> jcastro: No, was fixing a performance issue in gtk+ but I think I just finished that one.  So let me take a look at this now.
[16:37] <jpetersen> have a nice weekend
[16:37] <jcastro> bratsche: cool, thanks!
[16:37] <kenvandine> damn
[16:37] <kenvandine> just missed him
[16:37] <jcastro> kenvandine: he just updated the gpm patch
[16:39] <kenvandine> ok
[16:39] <kenvandine> the distro patch for libappindicator fixes the crash
[16:39] <kenvandine> but fall backs still didn't work
[16:40] <jcastro> ok
[16:40] <kenvandine> tedg, i uploaded that patch
[16:40] <jcastro> do we care about fallbacks in the distro?
[16:40] <kenvandine> yes
[16:40] <tedg> kenvandine: Sweet!  Thanks!
[16:40] <kenvandine> it doesn't work if you don't have the indicator
[16:40] <kenvandine> jcastro, i'll test the latest patch
[16:40] <tedg> kenvandine: Did you test GPM?
[16:41] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:41] <kenvandine> fallback didn't work
[16:41] <tedg> :-/
[16:41] <kenvandine> but it didn't crash either
[16:41] <tedg> Heh, okay.  I guess that's a gain.
[16:41] <kenvandine> i get no menu in the fallback
[16:41] <tedg> No menu or no icon in the notification area?
[16:42] <kenvandine> got the icon
[16:42] <kenvandine> no menu
[16:42] <tedg> kenvandine: Are you going to upload that?  (wondering if it's worth building on my own)
[16:42] <kenvandine> no
[16:42] <kenvandine> not yet
[16:42] <tedg> please :)
[16:42]  * kenvandine doesn't want to get yelled at :)
[16:42] <tedg> kenvandine: no worries, seb128 is off today ;)
[16:43] <jcastro> pitti's complained about the patch once already, let's do it right
[16:43] <jcastro> <-- and also afraid of seb
[16:44] <bratsche> heh
[16:48] <Nafai> Good morning
[16:49] <Nafai> bratsche: I see you just marked my bug "In Progress".  Let me know if you need anything from me
[16:51] <Nafai> Sorry I'm late getting "to work", a bit under the weather
[16:52] <jcastro> Nafai: it's ok he's been busy fixing GTK perf things all morning so the timing works out
[16:53] <Nafai> awesome :)
[17:42] <Nafai> I'm going to go let the medicine I just took kick in.  E-mail me (nafai@travishartwell.net) or IM me at the same address (it's a google apps account, I have cross-domain Jabber enabled) if you need me, I'll pick it up with my phone
[19:05] <jcastro> bratsche: how's it coming along?
[19:07] <bratsche> Trying to get something setup to reproduce the problem.
[19:17] <qense> jcastro: Banshee's now completely working! Yay!
[19:17] <qense> bratsche: Anything I can help with testing?
[19:17] <jcastro> qense: \o/
[19:17] <qense> :D
[19:18] <hyperair> qense: does banshee's application indicator have that cool tooltip-on-steroids on hover thing?
[19:19] <qense> hyperair: no, tooltips aren't supported
[19:19] <qense> it is a frequent complaint
[19:20] <hyperair> =(
[19:20] <hyperair> this is a very significant feature lost, you know?
[19:20] <hyperair> tooltips are essential in those icons
[19:21] <qense> All applications are suffering from this, Rhythmbox included.
[19:21] <hyperair> what about gnome-power-manager and its battery status/time remaining tooltip?
[19:21] <hyperair> is there a replacement for that?
[19:21] <hyperair> and rhythmbox's tooltip does not quite compare with banshee's
[19:21] <qense> no replacement as of know, iirc, although I thought that due to AppInd lacking some features and due to the patch not being stable enough it now is using GtkStatusIcons again.
[19:22] <hyperair> banshee's allows the user to control banshee without opening it.
[19:22] <hyperair> heh?
[19:22] <qense> ah, that kind of tooltip
[19:22] <qense> nope, completely gone
[19:23] <hyperair> i'll leave the decision upstream then. i won't ship a patch that removes this much functionality without upstream's consent.
[19:23] <hyperair> s/won't/refuse to/
[19:23] <hyperair> and there i was thinking app indicators might not be such a bad thing...
[19:24]  * hyperair sighs
[19:24] <qense> jcastro?
[19:24] <qense> I agree that it is a shame this much functionality is lost.
[19:24] <hyperair> it is more than just a mere shame
[19:24] <qense> but still, I think it would be the best to integrate Banshee with the rest of the system.
[19:24] <qense> hyperair: actually I never really used it
[19:24] <qense> so I don't know what I'm missing 
[19:24] <hyperair> imo it's one of banshee's pride and joy features, important a significant number of people.
[19:25] <hyperair> you cannot remove that kind of feature without expecting to receive flak
[19:25] <brettalton> hyperair: I just came into the room, what feature are you guys speaking of?
[19:26] <hyperair> brettalton: banshee's tooltip which allows you to magnify the cover art and seek
[19:27] <brettalton> hyperair: and banshee no longer has that feature?
[19:27] <hyperair> brettalton: because of another weird feature-removing spec our *x teams seem to support, we're tossing away this feature >_>
[19:27] <hyperair> brettalton: app indicators have no tooltip support
[19:27] <qense> brettalton: with the patch attached at bug 518171 it won't
[19:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 518171 in banshee (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Support Application Indicators (affects: 2)" [Wishlist,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/518171
[19:28]  * bratsche hates on bluetooth.
[19:30]  * hyperair wishes that we could just get notify-osd to stop leaking memory like a sieve when resizing images rather than implementing weird feature-removing specs in the name of progress.
[19:44] <jcastro> hyperair: the patch will be submitted upstream and yeah, it's upstream banshee's decision
[19:44] <jcastro> hyperair: we're just providing the patch
[19:44]  * hyperair still doesn't agree with it.
[19:44] <hyperair> it's not just the tooltip being removed. scrolling doesn't work any more either, does it?
[19:45] <jcastro> it does feel like a shame to lose the custom bling, but now that I'm using more apps with it I think overall it's a better user experience.
[19:45] <jcastro> hyperair: you mean for volume?
[19:45] <hyperair> jcastro: no! i mean for changing tracks!
[19:45] <jcastro> afaik there's a bug filed for that
[19:45] <jcastro> oh, yeah, THAT. 
[19:45]  * jcastro has hated that since it was checked in
[19:46] <hyperair> heh?
[19:46] <hyperair> what's wrong with that?
[19:46] <jcastro> I think scrolling the wheel to change tracks is crack, before that did volume, which makes total sense
[19:47] <hyperair> i think it makes even less sense to change volume by scrolling on a media player's icon
[19:47] <jcastro> he added it because jimmac got some fancy usb volume knob thing that glowed in the dark and he wanted to use it for changing songs.
[19:47] <jcastro> I have media keys on my keyboard, which is what I use.
[19:47] <hyperair> i have a mouse, which i use.
[19:48] <hyperair> and media keys which i use as well, when i'm not holding on to my mosue
[19:48] <hyperair> mouse*
[19:48] <qense> It would make much more sense if scrolling on a media player would change the Pulseaudio volume for that specific application.
[19:48] <hyperair> qense: if that were the case, i'd expect to see a volume emblem on the media player's icon.
[19:48] <jcastro> qense: I think just putting them all in the sound indicator is the way to go
[19:48] <hyperair> it doesn't make sense otherwise.
[19:49] <qense> jcastro: are there plans to do so? Adding icons for all applications you can change?
[19:49] <jcastro> I am not sure
[19:49] <hyperair> it would be nice to have a menu drop down from an icon for changing individual apps' volumes
[19:49] <qense> yeah, it would make more people aware of the functionality
[19:50] <jcastro> you mean like what is in the pulseaudio applet but in the panel thing? that would be cool
[19:50] <hyperair> right
[19:50] <hyperair> exactly
[19:50] <jcastro> qense: ok I am going to try your new patch
[19:50] <hyperair> but anyway, back to banshee, supposing we do accept removing the scrolling functionality, and the tooltip-on-steroids, how do you check what song is playing without opening banshee?
[19:50] <hyperair> qense: ?
[19:51] <jcastro> also I notice that notify-osd isn't working with banshee
[19:51] <jcastro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoundMenu <-- found this on the wiki hyperair 
[19:52] <qense> hyperair: We've already accepted that for Rhythmbox, why not for Banshee?
[19:52] <hyperair> jcastro: that's no different from what we have now
[19:52] <qense> jcastro: it should be working
[19:52] <jcastro> qense: lemme try the new patch
[19:53] <jcastro> qense: is there a way to use git to just apply your patch url right into it like I can with "bzr patch"?
[19:53] <qense> jcastro: it seems that the shuffle object in Banshee HEAD won't play nice.
[19:53] <qense> jcastro: all I know is that you can do 'git am path/to/patch', not if it also supports http
[19:53] <hyperair> qense: fine, leave it to upstream. but not having a way to query the currently playing song/artist without bringing up a huge media player window *really* *really* sucks.
[19:55] <hyperair> qense: and what about gnome-power-manager? do you seriously want users to open up some big gnome-power-manager window just to check how many minutes of battery they have left?
[19:56] <qense> hyperair: I'm not the one making the decisions here. :) You should aks other people about that,
[19:57] <jcastro> yeah this should go on the list actually
[19:57] <hyperair> qense: who? i feel like grilling someone right now, despite the fact that i should have been asleep 3 hours ago.
[19:58] <jcastro> hyperair: probably ted but today is a bad day since we're slammed for feature freeze, which is why list is probably best
[20:00] <hyperair> i, for one, see *absolutely* no way opening the main application window can be more streamlined than reading a tooltip that is updated in realtime
[20:00] <jcastro> qense: do I need to pass a flag for app indicator support?
[20:01] <qense> jcastro: if you've got libappindicator-dev installed no, otherwise yes and then you'll be asked to install it
[20:02] <jcastro> I have it installed, it never asked, and it's using the old area
[20:03] <qense> wait
[20:03] <qense> the -cil-dev thing
[20:03] <qense> did you install that?
[20:03] <qense> It is C# after all.
[20:03] <jcastro> I have that too
[20:03] <jcastro> I was running your old one just fine
[20:05] <qense> jcastro: what happens if you run ./configure with --enable-appindicator=yes ?
[20:05] <jcastro> ah wait, rb isn't working either, maybe it's fallout from yesterday's breakage
[20:05]  * jcastro goes to update and logout
[20:06] <qense> ok
[20:06] <qense> but that shouldn't be affected compiling, shouldn't it?
[20:06] <qense> as long as appindicator-sharp-0.1.pc is there is should work, not?
[20:06] <jcastro> no, I mean, running rb doesn't show it in the indicator area so maybe it is working but I can't see it
[20:06] <jcastro> it compiles just fine
[20:06] <qense> ah
[20:07] <qense> well, it does uses the old thing when Indicator Application doesn't work
[20:07] <jcastro> yeah that's my theory
[20:10] <jcastro> qense: still fallsback, I also tried with the --enable-appindicator=yes
[20:11] <qense> weird
[20:11] <qense> but it does say it compiles with Indicator Application?
[21:08] <Nafai> I'm back around
[21:14] <qense> I think our government is about to fall, I'll be following the news and the live feed from the parliament and may respond slowly.
[21:23] <tedg> qense: ?
[21:24] <qense> tedg: governmental crises are always exciting ;)
[21:24] <jcastro> qense: don't let that interrupt app-indicator development!
[21:24] <qense> future of our country vs. AppIndicator... What shall I chose?
[21:24] <jcastro> that was a joke. :)
[21:24] <qense> I know
[21:25] <tedg> qense: Which government?
[21:26] <qense> the Dutch
[21:27] <qense> The CDA wants to please the Americans, the PvdA thinks we've done enough already. We've had comments in the papers like "The US has used the Netherlands", others say we're now severely damaging our international image.
[21:27] <qense> the NATO already responded with irritation
[21:28] <tedg> Ah, see, when you said "government is about to fall" I was thinking more riots... proves I don't live in a parliamentary system. :)
[21:29] <qense> I don't expect bricks to appear through my window anytime soon. ;)
[21:30] <tedg> The question you should be asking is: Would bricks going through your window please the Americans? ;)
[21:31] <qense> Yes, that's what some members of our government are contemplating right now. Considerations like these seem to have become the cornerstone of Dutch foreign politics.