[02:06] <MTecknology> Please enable the 'multiverse' component in /etc/apt/source.list'
[02:06] <MTecknology> s/source/sources/ **
[02:07] <MTecknology> be nice if it said which line it wanted changed too
[02:11] <MTecknology> Need to get 438MB of archives. After unpacking 1,210MB will be used.
[02:11] <MTecknology> wow
[02:12] <wgrant> Add "-o Apt::Install-Recommends=no" to the apt-get command line.;
[02:18] <MTecknology> wgrant: little bit of a difference :P
[03:43] <MTecknology> Any ideas what went wrong here?  http://paste.ubuntu.com/380738/
[03:44] <wgrant> MTecknology: You didn't follow the instructions.
[03:44] <wgrant> You have not run launchpad-database-setup
[03:46] <MTecknology> ./utilities/launchpad-database-setup
[03:46] <MTecknology> I rtan that
[03:46] <MTecknology> I ran it wrong.....
[03:46] <MTecknology> wgrant: thanks
[03:57] <MTecknology> wgrant: so now that it's running I go to http://launchpad.dev and I see "It works!"
[03:58] <wgrant> MTecknology: You probably haven't restarted Apache sufficiently.
[04:00] <MTecknology> wgrant: I ran /etc/init.d/apache2 stop before runni make run; I only installed openssh-server and vim before running that script
[04:01] <wgrant> MTecknology: ls /etc/apache2/sites-enabled
[04:38] <wgrant> Do Zopeless emails not get send at all in the dev config?
[04:39] <MTecknology> wgrant: I said that in this channel too - just use your imagination :P
[04:40] <MTecknology> wgrant: http://paste.ubuntu.com/380760/
[04:40] <wgrant> MTecknology: That worked fine.
[04:40] <wgrant> The appserver is running.
[04:41] <MTecknology> wgrant: I just meant line 24,25
[04:41] <MTecknology> wgrant: but I can'
[04:41] <MTecknology> t get to it..
[04:42] <wgrant> MTecknology: What does launchpad.dev say now?
[04:42] <MTecknology> Unable to connect
[04:42] <MTecknology> I put an entry in my hosts file '192.168.1.6   launchpad.dev'
[04:42] <wgrant> Don't you mean 127.0.0.1 launchpad.dev?
[04:43] <wgrant> Er, 127.0.0.88 launchpad.dev
[04:43] <wgrant> rocketfuel-setup also does all that for you.
[04:44] <MTecknology> I'm running that in a remote vm
[04:44] <wgrant> Ah. Then you'll need to alter the Apache configuration to listen on a non-loopback interface.
[04:44] <MTecknology> oh
[04:48] <MTecknology> wgrant: wow.. that's a massive apache config
[04:48] <wgrant> It's not that big..
[04:49] <MTecknology> the ones I use for websites are generally 50 or less
[04:49] <wgrant> Yes, but Launchpad isn't a website.
[04:49] <wgrant> It's a horribly oversized behemoth of a web application.
[04:49] <MTecknology> :P
[04:51] <MTecknology> wgrant: kinda too bad you can't have a core then a different web app for each of the services available
[04:52] <MTecknology> like bugs, answers, etc.
[04:52] <wgrant> Indeed.
[04:54] <MTecknology> 20 different bzr branches put together in a careful manner so they're all inner-twined; looks messy :P
[04:55] <wgrant> Huh?
[04:56] <MTecknology> find . -name .bzr | wc -l
[04:56] <MTecknology> 20 branches
[04:56] <wgrant> One main branch, and 19 external dependencies.
[04:57] <wgrant> Because somebody hates using packages.
[04:57] <MTecknology> oh
[04:57] <wgrant> See sourcecode/
[04:57] <wgrant> Those are all external deps, not part of LP.
[04:57] <wgrant> Except launchpad-loggerhead, but that one's just strange.
[04:59] <MTecknology> 1.1GB of launchpad source and deps :P
[05:05] <MTecknology> wgrant: I think you guys should release a version that handles users, teams, and branches :P
[05:05]  * wgrant is not really a Launchpad guy.
[05:06] <MTecknology> I think the launchpad guys should do that :P
[05:07] <MTecknology> That's the part I really want to dig around in
[05:29] <MTecknology> wgrant: thanks for the help
[10:15] <mwhudson> launchpad-loggerhead should just be part of the lp tree
[10:18] <wgrant> mwhudson: I thought I heard talk about it maybe being moved soon after the open sourcing.
[10:19] <mwhudson> possibly from me!
[10:19] <mwhudson> mostly a matter of tuits plus a little making sure things don't fall over on rollout
[10:19] <wgrant> Yeah.
[11:54] <thekorn> ahrscheinlich zu kalt ;)
[11:54] <thekorn> upps, soory
[15:23] <Pilky> beuno: ping
[18:57] <mwhudson> morning
[19:02] <mwhudson> erg
[19:58] <thumper> morning
[20:33] <Pilky> anyone around who does (or is interested) UI/UX/Usability stuff on launchpad, wanted to discuss some ideas I'd had
[20:44] <thumper> Pilky: what sort of ideas have you had?
[20:45] <Pilky> well a while ago I posted some minor UI change mockups to the list, but I've been working on mocking up some more dramatic changes, aimed at making the UI far more approachable
[20:46] <thumper> Pilky: interestingly we've recently changed some ways we are dealing with ui changes
[20:46] <thumper> Pilky: the way to get the main designers to look at it is to post to the launchpad-dev mailing list with [RFC-UI
[20:46] <thumper> damn
[20:46] <thumper> [RFC-UI] in the subject
[20:46] <Pilky> ok cool
[20:46] <thumper> Pilky: this will get the right people looking and commenting
[20:47] <Pilky> thanks for the advice, I'll send a post now
[20:47] <thumper> ok
[21:18] <wgrant> When was that change announced?
[21:21] <wgrant> Ah, there.
[21:33] <Pilky> thumper: I've posted to the list if you're interested
[21:33] <thumper> Pilky: ok, cool
[21:35] <wgrant> Are there no provisions to put aside some regular amount time in each team for polish?
[21:35] <thumper> wgrant: yes there is, it is called slack :)
[21:35] <wgrant> This sort of thing seems to be common:
[21:36] <wgrant> 1) Release big new unpolished feature of complete UI overhaul.
[21:36] <wgrant> 2) People file bugs about all these trivial but glaring UI issues.
[21:36] <wgrant> 3) These bugs sit around for three years.
[21:37] <wgrant> s/of/or/
[21:38] <Pilky> wgrant: I think the main UI issues with launchpad aren't really trivial
[21:40] <wgrant> Pilky: No, but there are lots that are.
[21:40] <Pilky> the core issue is that it has one of the least appealing and approachable UIs out of all the major code hosting sites
[21:40] <wgrant> Those are the ones that are obviously bad.
[21:40] <Pilky> oh yeah there's lots of things like that
[21:40] <Pilky> but what I've tried in the mockups I posted to the list is to fix the core problem
[21:40] <Pilky> w
[21:41] <Pilky> which in turn fixes some of the trivial problems
[21:41] <wgrant> I mean things like bug #524322.
[21:41] <mup> Bug #524322: Excessive gaps in branch subscriber portlet <trivial> <ui> <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:Triaged> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/524322>
[21:41] <wgrant> It should have been starting every Launchpad developer in the face for months.
[21:42] <mwhudson> wgrant: i can honestly say i've never noticed that bug
[21:42] <wgrant> Intriguing.
[21:43] <Pilky> how is the UI actually managed for launchpad, is there someone who does all the UI work, or is it up to the team working on a feature?
[21:43] <Pilky> because there are some really good bits of UI dotted around launchpad, eg the icons next to links
[21:44]  * wgrant likes the mockups.
[21:44] <Pilky> but they can be right next to some bad bits of UI
[21:44] <wgrant> Launchpad no longer has a UI designer.
[21:44] <jml> Pilky, Launchpad is a massive application that has been developed for five years.
[21:44] <wgrant> jml: But the important templates were completely redesigned 6 months ago.
[21:45] <Pilky> jml: yeah I appreciate the size of launchpad
[21:45] <jml> wgrant, which is still only a fraction of the UI. It's much, much more than templates.
[21:45] <wgrant> The really important one (the home page) was, as I recall, designed a couple of days before release by one person.
[21:46] <wgrant> jml: True.
[21:46] <Pilky> jml: but the issue is the current UI makes it seem like a big application, which can seem quite daunting
[21:46] <Pilky> I don't believe powerful has to mean complicated :)
[21:46] <jml> Pilky, the way things work is that the team working on the feature tends to drive most of the stuff, UI mockups get circulated and commented on. We used to have a UI guy dedicated to us, but now we don't, so we work with them.
[21:46] <jml> Pilky, sure, I completely agree.
[21:47] <jml> Pilky, I'm just saying that observing properties of the UI and trying to guess how we do our UI work based on that is going to be fraught with peril :)
[21:47] <Pilky> heh ok
[21:47] <Pilky> but I'd definitely like to help out UI wise
[21:48] <Pilky> hence me doing these mockups
[21:48] <jml> Pilky, which are much appreciated.
[21:49] <jml> (although I haven't looked at these last ones, I'm at a Twisted sprint atm and ignoring large chunks of my mail)
[21:49] <Pilky> heh
[21:50] <jml> Pilky, the fact that the new user experience of Launchpad is so bad has been bugging me for a while now
[21:51] <Pilky> yeah, I think the main reason for that is the hassle of creating a new project
[21:51] <Pilky> I have lots of smaller open source projects that I'd like to put on launchpad, but I just zip the source and upload to my server because it is less hassle
[21:52] <jml> Pilky, that's certainly one aspect, I'm not sure it's the main one
[21:53] <jml> Pilky, sinzui & co. are working on project registration stuff soon
[21:53] <jml> Pilky, see https://dev.launchpad.net/RoadMap
[21:56] <Pilky> hmm
[21:57] <Pilky> well setting up a project was one of the next things I was going to look at mocking up next weekend.
[21:57] <wgrant> Wow, BranchRevision really has a full record of every revision in every branch? That is absolutely insane.
[21:58] <mwhudson> wgrant: ya think?
[21:59] <thumper> wgrant: is someone landing your branches for https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+bug/509892
[21:59] <mup> Bug #509892: Store upload log for SourcePackageRecipeBuilds <wellington> <Launchpad Bazaar Integration:In Progress by wgrant> <https://launchpad.net/bugs/509892>
[22:01] <Pilky> Anyway I'm heading offline, thanks for the info and feedback! :)
[22:01] <Pilky> night
[22:04] <wgrant> thumper: No. There's a successor that is currently in review, but I need to talk to Julian about it. https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~wgrant/launchpad/sprb-new-model-columns/+merge/19172 is good to land, if you could do the honours.
[22:04] <thumper> wgrant: I've assigned your work to 10.02
[22:05] <thumper> wgrant: that one is dependant on an earlier one, all good to go?
[22:06] <thumper> wgrant: can I trust you to not push extra unreviewed revisions?
[22:06] <wgrant_> thumper: Hopefully.
[22:06] <thumper> :)
[22:08] <thumper> wgrant: you need a commit message on the merge proposal
[22:09] <wgrant> thumper: Fixed, sorry.
[22:12] <wgrant> (The squeak-vm thing he speaks of is in Launchpad as an Ubuntu package only.)
[22:12] <thumper> wgrant: ec2 landing your work
[22:12] <wgrant> thumper: Thanks.
[22:12]  * mwhudson officially doesn't care about this #launchpad conversation any more
[22:18] <lifeless> sinzui: are you around per-chance? you seem to be the reviewer than made the 'squeak' project inactive; keithy is active there and wants to use lp for some stuff
[22:31] <thumper> what's the easy way to get a launchpadlib object linked to edge?
[22:31] <thumper> isn't there a one liner or something?
[22:32] <wgrant> Launchpad.login_anonymously('some consumer', 'https://api.edge.launchpad.net/')
[22:32] <lifeless> wgrant: lp.load() ?
[22:33] <wgrant> lifeless: That grabs an object from the webservice using an existing launchpadlib connection.
[22:34] <thumper> wgrant: gah, where is the Launchpad class?
[22:34] <wgrant> thumper: launchpadlib.launchpad.Launchpad
[22:35] <wgrant> Also, you can use launchpadlib.launchpad.EDGE_SERVICE_ROOT rather than the magic URL.
[22:36] <thumper> wgrant: I don't have login_anonymously
[22:36]  * thumper wonders why not
[22:36] <wgrant> thumper: You are on Karmic.
[22:36] <thumper> wgrant: yes I am
[22:36] <james_w> 'edge' works instead of EDGE_SERVICE_ROOT on newer releases too
[22:37] <wgrant> thumper: Use Launchpad's launchpadlib, or Launchpad.get_token_and_login('some consumer', EDGE_SERVICE_ROOT)
[22:38] <thumper> wgrant: using login_with
[22:38] <wgrant> Or that.
[22:38] <thumper> WTF?
[22:38] <thumper> 404
[22:38] <thumper> on the token
[22:38] <thumper> grr
[22:39] <thumper> GRRR
[22:39] <lifeless> wgrant: if load requires an existing connection, it wanting an absolute url is at odds with its core
[22:41] <wgrant> lifeless: It needs to be authenticated (if only anonymously), so it needs to be run on an existing object.
[22:42]  * wgrant headdesks.
[22:43] <lifeless> wgrant: ?
[22:43] <wgrant> #lp
[22:48] <thumper> my version of launchpadlib isn't working :(
[22:48] <wgrant> thumper: What's it not doing?
[22:48] <wgrant> Still 404ing?
[22:48] <thumper> yeah
[22:49]  * thumper tries bin/py
[22:49] <wgrant> What was the request URL?
[22:51] <thumper> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/381232/
[22:51] <thumper> wgrant: any ideas?
[22:52] <wgrant> thumper: Does EDGE_SERVICE_ROOT by any change have /beta on end?
[22:52] <wgrant> Mine doesn't, but this new version might be version-aware.
[22:53] <wgrant> Yes, Karmic's needs the /beta.
[22:53] <thumper> yes
[23:01] <mwhudson> jml: didn't you fix the default on ec2 test to be --headless?
[23:04] <jml> mwhudson, no :( I included that fix as part of my subunit-by-default branch, which I haven't landed.
[23:05] <thumper> mwhudson: I don't think the default was headless
[23:05] <mwhudson> thumper: it's not
[23:05] <jml> mwhudson, I'm still shaving that yak.
[23:05] <mwhudson> thumper: but i know i talked to someone about changing it
[23:05] <mwhudson> jml: ah ok
[23:05] <thumper> ok
[23:05]  * thumper runs to collect maia
[23:13]  * wgrant wishes that there were WIP MPs for all branches.
[23:18] <beuno> wgrant, me too
[23:18] <beuno> thumper too
[23:18] <beuno> someday!
[23:19] <wgrant> A good first step would be to allow me to create a WIP MP without spamming everybody.
[23:19] <wgrant> For now it seems to email people just like a normal MP :(
[23:19] <beuno> that should be easy-ish to do, no?
[23:20] <wgrant> Very probably.
[23:21] <beuno> I'm sure thumper can hack that up in 5 minutes when he gets back
[23:21] <beuno> tests included
[23:23] <wgrant> Does Zopeless mail get entirely dropped in the dev config?
[23:23] <wgrant> It doesn't seem to go anywhere that I can find.
[23:24] <beuno> I don't know anything about that area
[23:24] <mwhudson> wgrant: thumper is working on that this cycle
[23:25] <wgrant> mwhudson: Yay.
[23:25] <mwhudson> wgrant, beuno: but you need to stop treating the initial comment as the description
[23:25] <mwhudson> or the mail that gets sent out when you do ask it for review will very likely not be useful
[23:25] <wgrant> Right.
[23:25] <mwhudson> so that's what he's actually working on now
[23:26] <beuno> perfect, solved
[23:26] <beuno> mwhudson, so he's finally moving the description into it's own field?
[23:26] <mwhudson> beuno: yeah
[23:26] <beuno> super great
[23:26] <wgrant> Very good.
[23:27] <beuno> I've experienced using MPs differently this week
[23:27] <beuno> so I've felt some pains I haven't before  :)
[23:29] <mwhudson> :)
[23:30] <mwhudson> you should talk to thumper about them i guess
[23:30]  * mwhudson lunches
[23:30] <wgrant> beuno: BTW, I really hope that U1 Notes fix hasn't been rolled out, because it's still an issue.
[23:31] <beuno> wgrant, the part I did has, that part that blanks your notes hasn't
[23:31] <beuno> I basically removed the auto-save function that was broken in many ways
[23:31] <wgrant> I meant bug 452689.
[23:32] <beuno> ah
[23:32] <beuno> right
[23:32] <beuno> I think I flipped that my mistake
[23:32] <beuno> wgrant, can you check on edge?
[23:32] <wgrant> edge.o.u.c?
[23:32] <beuno> yessir
[23:33] <wgrant> beuno: Still buggy.
[23:33] <beuno> hrm
[23:33] <beuno> wgrant, can you comment on the bug?  the fix should be on edge
[23:33] <wgrant> It probably has been fixed. Just not properly.
[23:33] <beuno> that would be good to know ASAP  :)
[23:34]  * wgrant sighs.
[23:36] <wgrant> The other one is still fixed, though. Good.
[23:36] <beuno> maybe it didnt roll out to edge
[23:36] <beuno> it was a crazy week
[23:38]  * wgrant cannot work out how to save a contact.
[23:38] <beuno> I'm not super sure you can today  :)
[23:38] <wgrant> So it has an edit form with lots of nice inputs, but no save functionality. I see.
[23:39] <beuno> I started a week ago, give me time
[23:57]  * wgrant needs multiple prereq branches :(