[02:30] <jjesse> in system settings in lucid waht is the open collarabitve services provider management used for?
[02:31] <daskreech> ghns ?
[02:33] <jjesse> the login is for opendesktop.org
[02:35] <daskreech> that's for the social desktop plasmoid
[02:36] <jjesse> which is different then the microblog plasmoid?
[02:36] <daskreech> Yes
[02:37] <jjesse> hrmm ok, will have to figure out what the point of social desktop is
[02:38] <daskreech> Umm mostly I'd say it's chestbeating as well as ironing out bugs on some stuff
[02:38] <jjesse> cheastbeating?
[02:38] <jjesse> i'm more important then you?
[02:38] <daskreech> like you have an opendesktop login (kde-look kde-apps etc)
[02:39] <daskreech> more like look we have a social desktop
[02:39] <jjesse> i have an opendesktop login but no idea what to do w/ it
[02:39] <jjesse> hrmm socialdesktop.org
[02:39] <daskreech> In theory if you travel to a new country the plasmoid will show you people from that country based on the profile/ip address
[02:40] <jjesse> the last person on the list of people near me is the only one who is actually close to me
[02:40] <daskreech> and do stuff like rank them based on them being in the same groups as you on the site
[02:48] <daskreech> I'd like to use it more but I forgot my login and I don't run plasma
[02:48] <daskreech> When those two get fixed I'll look again
[03:20] <daskreech> claydoh: ping
[03:20] <daskreech> claydoh: ping
[03:21] <claydoh> daskreech: pong, denting a reply :)
[03:21] <daskreech> claydoh: :-)
[03:22] <claydoh> well Ill spell it out my kde3 based ones are ok, just not up to date
[03:22] <claydoh> that's for both hardy and karmic
[03:22] <daskreech> Yeah I noticed
[03:23] <daskreech> I removed them and my kmymonkey updated
[03:23] <claydoh> the kde4 based ones need updating to svn code, as ofx importing is broken in the current beta
[03:23] <daskreech> Money
[03:23] <daskreech> damn now I want an app called Kmymonkey
[03:23] <daskreech> I don't even care what it does
[03:23] <claydoh> sweet app get coding!
[03:23] <daskreech> I"m trying to code a KDE Y! client
[03:23] <daskreech> based on the Gyache code
[03:24] <claydoh> id rather have something with monkeys
[03:25] <claydoh> but really that sounds cool too
[03:27] <daskreech> Trying to do LPI next week so stydying all this week
[03:28] <daskreech> may do some coding inbetween
[03:28] <daskreech> Ubuntu is about the time period where I said it's going to start sucking
[03:29] <daskreech> CD space is going to force some hard choices
[03:34] <daskreech> I should check in with the Basket team
[03:44] <shtylman> Riddell: where do we stand on the smd stuff?
[03:44] <shtylman> *smb
[03:45] <shtylman> I see it got postponed...
[03:45] <shtylman> is it still far off?
[03:51] <shtylman> nixternal: are there still plans for a netbook specific slideshow?
[04:04] <nixternal> shtylman: I guess so...I figured you would know that one :) If so, all I have to do is type them up. They are on my todo list, but there were a couple of things yet to do in front of them. A bit busy lately, and then tonight and tomorrow, I will be pushing snow yet again :/
[04:05] <shtylman> nixternal: no hurry... whenever you have the text just send it along
[04:05] <shtylman> if we make it...we make it
[04:05] <shtylman> if not...no biggie
[04:06] <nixternal> shoot, I was just talking to you in another channel :)
[04:06] <nixternal> I saw your message in my highlight window and just started responding :)
[04:06] <nixternal> oh, I am sure we will make it. I can get them done this week, at least by next week
[04:08] <shtylman> haha
[04:08] <shtylman> what channel?
[04:09] <shtylman> one that I am also in? or just some random channel?
[04:25] <nixternal> some random channel
[04:25] <nixternal> on OFTC at that
[07:06] <markey> guys
[07:06] <markey> more and more people are complaining about buggy USB auto-mounting
[07:06] <markey> I hear it everywhere
[07:06] <markey> is anything being done about it?
[07:06]  * daskreech should get a USB thing
[07:06] <markey> that should be an ultra-high priority item, imho
[07:06] <markey> people are starting to migrate to other distros...
[07:07] <markey> think about it :)
[07:07] <markey> Shuttleworth could hire a kernel guy for looking at it
[07:07] <markey> or else you'll have many Arch Linux users soon
[07:07] <markey> (it's starting to happen...)
[07:08] <jussi01> markey: are you experiencing this on karmic or lucid?
[07:08] <markey> Karmic
[07:08] <markey> I'm not going to use an Alpha or Beta just because of this
[07:08] <markey> (neither are other users)
[07:09] <jussi01> markey: strange, as I seem (havent really debugged yet) to have issues wth my us tv card and card reader on my fiancees machin
[07:09] <markey> jussi01: the more devices you attach, the worse it gets
[07:09] <jussi01> s/us/usb/
[07:09] <markey> from what I can see
[07:09] <jussi01> seems maybe someone borked someting
[07:09] <markey> try an USB hub (actively powered, and 2 HDDs and some other devices
[07:10] <markey> yes, borked UDev or so
[07:10] <markey> it affects all devices, keyboards, printers, HDDs, media players...
[07:11] <jussi01> maco2: what the heck are you doing up...? :D
[07:11] <maco2> jussi01: discovering that network-manager segfaults as soon as it starts on my karmic system?
[07:12] <maco2> also: reading a physics book because exam in 9 hours
[07:12] <jussi01> seems everyone has issues today...
[07:15] <markey> one example of buggy USB:
[07:15] <markey> http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=116&t=85998&p=148867#p148865
[07:15] <markey> (we get to see a lot of those)
[08:48] <Riddell> shtylman: nobody has started coding on SMB stuff so I set it to postponed
[08:50] <jussi01> Riddell: have you anythoughts on markey's USB issue? Im starting to see some issues on Sari's karmic machine :/
[08:52] <Riddell> not really, various people reported unreliability but nobody had much clue of a cause and most didn't have it as bad as markey https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-January/030033.html
[09:11] <Mamarok> what was the problem with aptitude again when upgrading to KDE SC 4.4?
[09:31] <apachelogger> Mamarok: that we do not QA against aptitutde and apt-get is superior ;)
[09:32] <apachelogger> can't remember in particular, but I think aptitude had problems resolving the deps properly
[09:32] <Mamarok> ah
[09:35] <persia> Mind you, this is potentially a bug in the packages, but it's not one that anyone checks against, so if one wants aptitude to work, one needs to do their own QA.
[09:38] <apachelogger> for KDE stack upgrades I think it is mostly wrong usage making aptitude resolving deps in a crappy manner (like say block upgrades to some graphics app because it would require exchanging one of underlying libs)
[09:41] <persia> There's ways to define package relationships that work for both resolvers.  It's just extra work.
[09:41] <neversfelde> no need to get a feature freeze exception for bugfix releases, is this still correct?
[09:50] <apachelogger> persia: well, I doubt aptitude upgrade will remove packages?
[09:50] <apachelogger> in which case the best package relationships wouldnt help
[09:50] <apachelogger> neversfelde: aighto
[09:51] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I think this means yes :)
[09:51] <persia> apachelogger: Aptitude will certainly remove packages under some conditions.  It just has different conditions.
[09:51] <persia> But like I said, it's not worth fixing.
[09:57] <pgquiles> persia: apachelogger: aptitude needs no fixing, IMHO. It removes a package when deborphan says some package is not being used by any other package. If aptitude removes needed packages when upgrading to KDE 4.4.0, then 4.4.0 packages have missing dependencies.
[09:58] <neversfelde> bug 525658 needs a sponsor
[09:58] <apachelogger> I did not say that it removes packages, I said it does refuse to do so
[09:59] <apachelogger> when migrating from libfoo1 to libfoo2 as part of a KDE stack upgrade I saw reports of aptitude refusing to do so and marking everything depending on libfoo as blocked
[09:59] <pgquiles> apachelogger: aptitude refuses to remove packages when the 'score' is too high (i. e. the potential breakage to the system is too high)
[10:00] <pgquiles> apachelogger: if you mean libkdcraw, aptitude works fine for me: it says it will break krita and whatnot
[10:00] <pgquiles> but I think aptitude is right and it's just a matter of some missing KOffice packages. I can't remember the details now.
[10:00] <apachelogger> pgquiles: hence I claimed that most of the aptitude issues are PEBKAC issues ;)
[10:01] <pgquiles> apachelogger: which I agree
[10:01] <pgquiles> :-)
[10:01] <apachelogger> no, the removal of krita is just fine
[10:01] <apachelogger> libkdcraw has weird packaging
[10:01] <apachelogger> disallowing the lib package of  7 and 8 to be installed along each other
[10:01] <pgquiles> there's something which does need fixing, though: KPackageKit does not remove packages, at least not those listed as 'Conflicts', while aptitude will do it fine
[10:02] <persia> pgquiles: That aptitude works for you is good, but like apachelogger said, it's not part of the Ubuntu QA process, so there's absolutely no guarantee it works.
[10:02] <persia> It could work, but that needs someone to commit to doing QA, and fixing any issues discovered.
[10:03] <apachelogger> pgquiles: that is a problem of the underlying backend
[10:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: bug #525668
[10:23] <Riddell> didn't I do that?
[10:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier-kde indicates you didnt
[10:25] <Riddell> done
[10:26] <apachelogger> Riddell: thanks, btw, could you please set the main branch for the kubuntu-default-settings project
[10:26] <apachelogger> otherwise bzr branch lp:kubuntu-default-settings doesnt work :(
[10:28] <Riddell> apachelogger: done
[10:29] <apachelogger> Riddell: thank you :)
[10:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: can we kill kubuntu-artwork-usplash?
[10:30] <apachelogger> it appears ubuntu-artwork-usplash is already dead
[10:32] <persia> usplash in general is mostly dead.
[10:33] <apachelogger> hm
[10:33] <apachelogger> !info usplash-theme-ubuntu lucid
[10:34] <apachelogger> poor bot :D
[10:34] <apachelogger> well, it seems that package here does not have any relation with ubuntu-artwork-usplash, even though I am quite sure that is what the package was called at some point
[10:35] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes we can
[10:35] <apachelogger> ok, nuking it
[10:57] <Riddell>                 if [ "$DESKTOP" = "kde" ]; then
[10:57] <Riddell> apachelogger: where does that variable come from?
[10:57] <apachelogger> Riddell: kpk
[10:58] <Riddell> "Please file a but in your distribution"  typo
[10:58] <Riddell> but no dantii to complain to
[10:59] <apachelogger> ^^
[11:02] <apachelogger> neversfelde: when are you applying as MOTO btw?
[11:02] <Riddell> neversfelde: that kbluetooth .dsc needs a .orig.tar.gz, the bug only has .orig.tar.bz2
[11:04] <Riddell> hmm, did it rename from kdebluetooth to KBluetooth ?
[11:05] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I do not have the time to open and organize the MOTO team, so I decided to apply as a MOTU :)
[11:05] <neversfelde> Riddell: one moment, I'll have a look and as far as I know it was renamed some time ago
[11:06] <Riddell> "This is a continuation of kde-bluetooth, but with a very different philosophy" suggest the new maintainer renamed it http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/kbluetooth?content=112110
[11:06] <Riddell> maybe we should rename the package then
[11:07] <neversfelde> Riddell: I can do it
[11:26] <Riddell> I wonder if splitting out /usr/share/icons/oxygen/256x256/ to save space on amd64 would be sensible
[11:27] <apachelogger> Riddell: I do not think 256 features a complete set
[11:48] <Riddell> it's not, and scaling up from 128 actually looks not bad so I think that's an acceptable loss if we include the icons in our "suggested packages notification"
[12:00] <Riddell> using lzma on oxygen-icons saves 2-3MB straight away
[12:01] <apachelogger> Riddell: shouldnt it be LZMAd anyway?
[12:01]  * apachelogger is implementing lzma for kde.pm right now
[12:01] <apachelogger> or at least trying to ;)
[12:02] <apachelogger> agateau: ping
[12:06] <jussi01> yippee... all my window decorations are gone, as is my plasma stuff...
[12:07] <persia> It's a spare look, for extra performance.
[12:08] <apachelogger> to quote sheldon: "there there"
[12:08] <apachelogger> ^^
[12:11] <Tm_T> jussi01: I trade that for my "no keyboard in Xorg"
[12:12] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com/381551/
[12:12] <apachelogger> there my superior perl skills strike again
[12:12] <apachelogger> muhahaha :D
[12:14] <Riddell> elite
[12:17] <apachelogger> http://paste.ubuntu.com/381554/
[12:17] <Riddell> ok oxygen uploaded with 256 icons split out and lzma in use, saving of 9MB
[12:26] <jussi01> ok, could someone try replicate a bug in 4.4 for me? go to system settings, appearance, style, workspace and try change the them a few times...
[12:27] <jussi01> warning. for me I have to restart as plasma crashes and there is no alt+f2  or anything
[12:37] <agateau> apachelogger: pong
[12:38] <apachelogger> agateau: is the indicator plasmoid intent to not behave like others?
[12:38] <apachelogger> namely the fact that it is not removable, unless one is in panel editing mode and that it is always visible
[12:38] <agateau> apachelogger: how does it not behave like others?
[12:38] <agateau> apachelogger: oh, you mean you can't right click it?
[12:39] <apachelogger> yep
[12:39] <agateau> apachelogger: this is fixed
[12:39] <apachelogger> ok, and the visiblity?
[12:39] <agateau> apachelogger: with the new version, if it's in the systemtray it can autohide itself
[12:39] <agateau> not if it's in the panel, yet
[12:40] <apachelogger> agateau: is that version already in the archives?
[12:40] <apachelogger> because mine does neither react to right clicks nor does it autohide :)
[12:40]  * agateau checks
[12:41] <agateau> apachelogger: it is, you need version 0.5.1
[12:43]  * apachelogger restarts plasma
[12:43] <apachelogger> ah
[12:43] <apachelogger> perfect
[12:43]  * apachelogger hugs agateau
[12:43] <apachelogger> love it :D
[12:43] <agateau> great!
[12:43] <apachelogger> Riddell: lzma for debhelper all QA'd too :D
[12:56]  * apachelogger feels like a spammer somehow ^^
[12:59] <Tm_T> apachelogger: shadeslayer? yes, that's what he is
[12:59]  * Tm_T hides
[13:00] <apachelogger> *sigh*
[13:00] <apachelogger> mom!
[13:03] <shadeslayer> hmm
[13:05] <shadeslayer> well in case youre thinking about the quits and joins,twas because vlc fullscreen + Chromium os = one heck of a party :P
[13:20] <steveire> apachelogger: I didn't know I was in this channel because of how quassel works. Did you fix your akonadi issue?
[13:28] <ghostcube> apachelogger: you noticed the ubuntu gnome guys made Mutter to her WM :D
[13:28] <ghostcube> iam waiting now for Vater too lol
[13:29] <ghostcube> ehem, i have a question about the kwin effects
[13:29] <ghostcube> who is doing them :)
[13:30] <Riddell> kwin developers
[13:30] <ghostcube> thx
[13:57] <shadeslayer> hmm apparently i found a very annoying bug in the kde comics plasmoid
[13:58] <shadeslayer> try and search for any comic via the search bar.. the search crashes :P
[14:53] <apachelogger> steveire: no, it seems to be a conceptual problem with akonadi and mysql 5.1
[14:55] <apachelogger> mysql 5.1 expects a set of default tables to be available, those can only be created by mysql_install_db, which is currently not taken into account by akonadi
[14:55] <apachelogger> also, what I just came to think about, what happens when the mysqld gets upgraded to an incompatible version?
[14:55] <apachelogger> i.e. such as that the database tables need to be upgraded by some tool
[14:56] <apachelogger> IMHO that whole mysql business is just one big bloody mess
[14:56] <apachelogger> on the other hand I might just not understand the deeper logic
[14:57] <apachelogger> steveire: bug 448705 also kde bug 185395
[14:57]  * apachelogger notes that simply running that script is not going to be any good for kubuntu 9.10, since the script is in the main server package
[15:20] <apachelogger> Riddell: I suppose we could make Qt use lzma too?
[15:21]  * apachelogger notes that this does not help with the CD, since that is lzma compressed anyway
[15:22] <Riddell> apachelogger: so what are you suggesting?
[15:23] <apachelogger> to make space on the CD? remove openoffice :S
[15:23]  * apachelogger tries to get a look at the CD, but qemu does not seem to let him
[15:23] <Riddell> what are you suggesting for Qt?
[15:24] <Riddell> CD space should be fine with the oxygen icon change
[15:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: add the appropriate build rule to compress the deb data with lzma, thus reducing the size of packages to download
[15:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: just imagine how much finer the CD would be without openoffice, we could even ship uncrippled artwork then :/
[15:25] <apachelogger> Riddell: IIRC -dbg packages shrunk by almos 50% with lzma
[15:31] <Riddell> apachelogger: getting rid of openoffice is tempting but koffice isn't stable enough to replace it yet and I'm not sure the world has moved away enough from office suites to get rid of it (although Ubuntu Netbook did)
[15:32] <apachelogger> Riddell: well, we'll conduct that survey and then see
[15:32] <apachelogger> but I suppose indeed that kubuntu-netbook would be the first target that replaces ooo with ko
[15:32] <apachelogger> the largest packag eont he CD is openoffice.org-core
[15:32] <apachelogger> followed by foomatic-db-gutenprint
[15:33] <apachelogger> linux-image is only third
[15:33] <jjesse> we should drop openoffice from netbook
[15:33]  * apachelogger is wondering how a driver db can be that large
[15:34] <apachelogger> also, do we need thesaurus by default?
[15:34] <apachelogger> almost in the top ten
[15:34] <Quintasan> awesome
[15:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: konq-plugins-l10n should be installed by language-selector IMHO
[15:35] <apachelogger> it only contains documentation
[15:36] <apachelogger> uhm
[15:36] <apachelogger> we have gnome-keyring on the CD Oo
[15:37] <Quintasan> lol
[15:37] <Quintasan> apachelogger: thumbs up for lzma
[15:37]  * Quintasan hands apachelogger few cookies
[15:38]  * apachelogger must save them for later
[15:38] <Riddell> umm, we also have network-manager-gnome
[15:39] <Riddell> oh that's because we don't install plasma-widget-networkmanagement any more
[15:39] <Riddell> because it's now network-manager-kde again
[15:39]  * apachelogger installs germinate
[15:40] <Riddell> so network-manager Recommends: network-manager-gnome | plasma-widget-networkmanagement and brings in network-manager-gnome
[15:40] <apachelogger> well
[15:40] <apachelogger> IMHO
[15:40] <apachelogger> nm should recommend nm-frontend
[15:40] <apachelogger> and nm-gnome and nm-kde should provide nm-frontend
[15:41] <Quintasan> makes sense, at least for me
[15:41] <Quintasan> :)
[15:44] <apachelogger> ok, fixing nm should get rid of gconf* gksu, gnome-keyring, libgnome*
[15:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: are you working on that already?
[15:45] <apachelogger> openoffice.org-math is also on again
[15:45] <apachelogger> -.-
[15:46] <Riddell> yes I am
[15:46] <apachelogger> cool
[15:46] <apachelogger> gdebi is also one large beast -.-
[15:46] <Riddell> openoffice.org-writer recommends openoffice.org-maths, maybe we can moan to calc?
[15:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: we could just blacklist math
[15:47] <apachelogger> first I need to find the branch url though :D
[15:47] <Riddell> branch for what?
[15:47] <Riddell> bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/kubuntu.lucid/ ?
[15:48] <apachelogger> right, thanks :)
[15:52] <apachelogger> Riddell: I suppose we could also save some space by not installing all of konq-plugins (i.e. split the searchbar again)
[15:53] <Riddell> I think we do
[15:53] <Riddell> apachelogger: konqueror-plugin-searchbar is what's in the seed
[15:54] <apachelogger> Riddell: it is a fake package the description says
[15:54] <apachelogger> + it depends on konq-plugins
[15:54] <apachelogger> which in turn seems to recommend or depend konq-plugins-l10n
[15:54] <apachelogger> yeah, package is empty
[15:55] <apachelogger> all debian's fault it seems :P
[15:55] <Riddell> hmm, right
[15:56] <Riddell> ok network-manager_0.8-0ubuntu2_source.changes uploaded
[15:57] <apachelogger> also, I think after lucid we should rethink the default font
[15:57] <apachelogger> dejavu is a bit of an ugly beast
[15:57] <apachelogger> "a bit"
[15:58] <Riddell> ubuntu desktop includes ttf-liberation
[15:59] <apachelogger> well, I am more about default
[15:59] <apachelogger> shipping a superior font doesnt change the uglyness of the default
[15:59] <Riddell> I think they may be using it as the default, I don't remember
[15:59] <apachelogger> hm
[16:00] <apachelogger> IIRC nuno liked liberation ;)
[16:00] <apachelogger> that said, we should consult with upstream on this topic
[16:00] <Riddell> it's whole raison d'etre is to be "the same as microsoft" which leaves a bad taste in my mouth
[16:00] <Riddell> nuno is upstream I guess, doubt anyone else in KDE knows or cares much about fonts
[16:00] <apachelogger> upstream == oxygen as a whole ;)
[16:13] <Riddell> apachelogger: want me to split out konq plugin searchbar then?
[16:14] <apachelogger> Riddell: already on it
[16:14] <Riddell> groovy
[16:18] <apachelogger> hm
[16:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: isn't oxygencursors now part of kdebase? if so I am wondering why we are still using the one from oxygencursors
[16:19] <Riddell> apachelogger: it's part of kdebase-workspace I think, we follow debian in packaging it separately, I don't know why they prefer to do that
[16:20] <apachelogger> oh ... IIRC the oxygencursors source contains more colors
[16:20] <apachelogger> not sure if that is a good reason to prefer it though
[16:20] <Riddell> grumble, they should all be put into kdeartwork, kdebase really shouldn't be the place for artwork options
[16:21] <apachelogger> main color should be in kdebase IMHO
[16:21] <Riddell> yes
[16:21] <Riddell> but the rest should be in kdeartwork.  same goes for wallpapers etc
[16:22] <apachelogger> ruphy: didn't I sign you up for maintaining kdeartwork? :P
[16:24] <Riddell> kdeartwork has never been properly maintained
[16:25] <Tm_T> kdeadmin is another that needs some love, apparently
[16:26] <Riddell> it has a maintainer, I think i saw him proposing to scrap old stuff recently
[16:26] <Riddell> kdetoys on the other hand..
[16:27] <apachelogger> IMHO maintenance must be more aggressive
[16:27] <apachelogger> stuffthat cant be supported properly needs to go
[16:31] <ghostcube> kwin devs arent vry responding if you aks them anything :)
[16:31]  * ghostcube hugs the kubuntu-devs
[16:34] <apachelogger> Riddell: new konq-plugins uploaded
[16:34] <apachelogger> that should take another 11MiB off the CD if I am right
[16:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: did you update bzr?
[16:34] <Riddell> bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/konq-plugins/ubuntu/
[16:34] <apachelogger> ohhh
[16:34] <apachelogger> shoot
[16:34] <apachelogger>  :D
[16:35] <Riddell> konq-plugins isn't 11MiB
[16:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: dpkg said something like that
[16:36] <apachelogger> oh, apt-get it was
[16:36] <apachelogger> sec
[16:36] <Riddell> "Need to get 485kB of archives."
[16:36] <apachelogger> oh
[16:36] <apachelogger> 11MiB uncompressed
[16:38] <jussi01> lucid:
[16:38] <jussi01> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[16:38] <jussi01>   krita-kde4: Depends: libkdcraw7 (>= 4:4.3.2) but it is not going to be installed
[16:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: anyhow, pushed branch update
[16:38] <jussi01> are we aware of this?
[16:38]  * apachelogger was only aware of it on karmic
[16:38] <Riddell> yes, poke nixternal to finish off koffice
[16:39] <jussi01> and is there a reason krita-kde4 still exists, not krita...
[16:39] <jussi01> Riddell: ahh
[16:39] <Riddell> "After this operation, 2,396kB of additional disk space will be used."  not 11MiB
[16:39]  * jussi01 goes to hunt nixternal's
[16:40]  * apachelogger thinks aptitude should be kicked off the CD
[16:42] <Riddell> I never spotted that before, wonder why it's there
[16:42] <Riddell> bug 252044
[16:43] <apachelogger> Riddell: should be dropped IMHO
[16:43] <apachelogger> vim/emacs is also superior to nano
[16:43] <apachelogger> yet we do not ship any of the two in addition to nano
[16:43] <apachelogger> those that wish to use aptitude can invoke the apt-get oneliner to install it
[16:45] <Riddell> seems like an issue with some history though
[16:45] <apachelogger> I would imagine
[16:45] <Riddell> probably needs discussed on ubuntu-devel
[16:46]  * apachelogger expects loads of whining :S
[16:47] <Riddell> dunno, plenty of people don't like apititude
[16:47] <jussi01> since when did we ship more than one app for the same task?
[16:47] <Tm_T> aptitude is used in alternative-cd installe
[16:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: well, others do like it ;)
[16:48] <Tm_T> err, there's option to run aptitude, anyway
[16:48] <apachelogger> Tm_T: I would suppose that is if -x aptitude
[16:48] <Tm_T> ?
[16:49] <apachelogger> Tm_T: I suppose the option will not be shown if aptitude is not there
[16:49] <Tm_T> true that, though I supposed it might be useful for some
[16:49] <Tm_T> I know I had to fiddle with it once
[16:50] <apachelogger> so keep it on the alternate but drop it from the live cd
[16:50] <Tm_T> agreed on that
[16:50] <apachelogger> there is more space on the alternate due to missing ubiquity anyway (I guess)
[16:50] <Riddell> yes, quite a bit more
[16:51] <apachelogger> seems like a fair compromise too
[16:51] <jussi01> how big is aptitude?
[16:51] <Riddell> 1.7MB said that bug report
[16:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: no that was incorrect
[16:51] <jussi01> ouch
[16:52] <apachelogger> not very big I would suppose
[16:52] <apachelogger> but still
[16:52] <Riddell> it's a 1.5MB download
[16:52] <Tm_T> Size: 1468332
[16:52] <Riddell> which would be worth getting rid of
[16:53] <apachelogger> indeed
[16:53] <apachelogger> omg
[16:53] <Tm_T> Installed-Size: 8620 ...that means ~8.5 MiB ?
[16:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: please navigate to your ubiquity branch and run : sudo apt-get install kdesdk-scripts; optimizegraphics
[16:54] <apachelogger> there are a billion pixmaps in there and none are optimized
[16:55] <apachelogger> Tm_T: I think so
[16:56] <apachelogger> but uncompressed is nothing to go bye
[16:56] <apachelogger> s/bye/by ^^
[16:56] <Quintasan> hmm
[16:57] <Quintasan> I'm afraid I have too many tests this week :(
[16:59] <Riddell> ubiquity artwork should be updated to match kde 4.4 anyway
[17:01] <apachelogger> true
[17:02] <apachelogger> Quintasan: I suppose you should be learning
[17:04] <Riddell> optimizegraphics: Losslessly optimized PNG and SVGZ files with "optipng -o5" and "advdef -z -4".
[17:04] <Riddell> Reduced disk space: 160KB (0MB)
[17:04] <Riddell> nice but not massive
[17:06] <nixternal> jussi01: yes, I have already fixed that libkdcraw7->8 thing in the package I am massaging....should have it uploaded today
[17:06] <Quintasan> apachelogger: well, I intend to but I was wondering what I shall do next and after seeing our Todo I think I will do some packaging and stick to learning c++
[17:07]  * Quintasan just realised he has to learn only biology
[17:09] <nixternal> lucid just booted from Grub to KDM in under 10 seconds!!!
[17:09] <nixternal> that is freakin' fast
[17:09] <nixternal> I saw the plymouth splash thing for a few seconds, and then boom, there was KDM
[17:09] <nixternal> impressive!
[17:10]  * Quintasan notes it boots that fast even on KVM
[17:25] <shtylman_> Riddell: is it too late to poke at the smb feature? ... is it worth the effort? cause if so I will gladly take a look
[17:25] <Riddell> shtylman_: it would need a feature freeze exception, so we'd need to be sure it was well testing and working
[17:26] <Riddell> however since the current code is 100% broken, it's not like it could make things much worse
[17:26] <Riddell> so yes it would be worth it
[17:26] <Riddell> ping rgreening for the stuff he had at UDS
[17:26] <shtylman_> Riddell: will do
[18:06] <nixternal> hrmm, virtuoso packages are listed in the "no longer required" area when doing apt-get...is there something wrong or is this expected?
[18:08] <Riddell> only virtuoso-nepomuk is useful
[18:08] <Riddell> rest can go
[18:09] <nixternal> groovy, thanks!
[18:20] <rgreening> hey shtylman_ / Riddell. Sry I've been rather absentee... im going trough a major transition with work and have been tied up.
[18:20] <rgreening> shtylman_: have a read over the spec. most of the details are there to make the required changes.
[18:21] <shtylman_> rgreening: no worries... I understand how work can be :)
[18:21] <rgreening> shtylman_: let me know when you have reviewed and we can set up some time to go over it.. I may be able to free up some time to help get it done.
[18:21] <shtylman_> rgreening: do you have a branch published somewhere?
[18:21] <shtylman_> and when you say spec you mean the blueprint right?
[18:22] <rgreening> I have to take a $50M company and migrate all the back office to new systems and services by June 30th...
[18:22] <shtylman_> just so I am clear
[18:22] <shtylman_> ooooo
[18:22] <shtylman_> sounds fancy
[18:22] <rgreening> shtylman_: ya and theres a wiki page too
[18:22] <rgreening> ya. Im going nutz with it.
[18:22] <rgreening> We have to build all the infrastructure from scratch
[18:23] <nixternal> Riddell: bug 512159 - still needs to be finished MIR wise
[18:23] <shtylman_> rgreening: thats crazy tho... everything all new?
[18:23] <nixternal> fsck me, I missed a package for KOffice that needs MIR too... create-resources
[18:23] <rgreening> I have a feeling that I wont have time for UDS this spring :(  ...
[18:23] <shtylman_> was the old stuff just that old?
[18:23] <shtylman_> :(
[18:24] <rgreening> shtylman_: oh no, the company it is being transitioned from has claimed "prorpietary" and wont let us get the systems
[18:24] <rgreening> so we get some of the data, but not the system...
[18:25] <rgreening> stupid bean counters making all the wrong decisions
[18:25] <shtylman_> wow
[18:25] <shtylman_> that sucks...
[18:25] <rgreening> yup
[18:25] <Riddell> nixternal: I can just move them to main, MIR system is broken
[18:25] <shtylman_> another reason to stay far away from "proprietary"
[18:25] <rgreening> Im even fightin just to maintain the IP blocks... so we dont have to renumber.
[18:25] <nixternal> Riddell: roger that....what should we do about create-resources? it would be nice to have that in main as well
[18:25] <rgreening> so many battles
[18:25] <Riddell> nixternal: having said that, I'm not sure main is the right place for koffice, upstream seem not that confident that 2.1 is a suitable release
[18:26] <nixternal> hahaha
[18:26] <Riddell> nixternal: I'll move it to main, please do the MIR still
[18:26] <nixternal> I was kind of figuring this would come
[18:26] <nixternal> Riddell: well, should we wait then?
[18:26] <Riddell> nixternal: no, enough waiting
[18:26] <nixternal> I was wondering why we were pushing koffice into main so quickly in the first place, but it was done before I could blink
[18:27] <rgreening> shtylman_: anyway, ping me when you are ready, and we can probably spend and evening or two and make it happen.
[18:27]  * rgreening needs motivation
[18:27] <Riddell> nixternal: create-resources and libqtgtl moved to main
[18:27] <Riddell> nixternal: so quickly?  it's always been in main
[18:29] <Riddell> shtylman_: the smb stuff needs the gnome smb share features ported into the kde file properties dialogue plugin, which is split over kdelibs and kdebase
[18:29] <nixternal> Riddell: I meant the newer koffice, not the older :)
[18:29] <shtylman_> rgreening: will do :)
[18:30] <shtylman_> Riddell: noted... is there a list of these "features"
[18:30] <shtylman_> or I just have to open the gnome one and look?
[18:30] <rgreening> shtylman_: read my spec first
[18:30] <rgreening> I've detailed most of it there in the wiki and LP blueprint
[18:30] <Riddell> nixternal: well upstream has stopped supporting koffice 1 and it's a security liability and it's just as broken as koffice 2.1, so we definately want to go with 2.1.  it's just a question of do we want it in main or universe
[18:31] <shtylman_> rgreening: sounds good...I will do that tonight and start looking at where you left off
[18:31] <shtylman_> rgreening: is the branch listed on the wiki or spec?
[18:31] <rgreening> shtylman_: I don't have a branch uploaded
[18:31] <nixternal> Riddell: I would have kept 2.x in universe personally until it was ready...
[18:31] <Riddell> shtylman_: it's a wrapper around the "net share" command (which isn't installed by default)
[18:32] <rgreening> which is part of samba (and I believe it is now installed by default.. though I could be wrong).
[18:33] <shtylman_> Riddell: if not installed by default... are we gonna have disc issues?
[18:33] <Riddell> nixternal: ok let's move it to universe then, but we still want the MIRs because we'll want it in main again before long
[18:33] <Riddell> shtylman_: disc issues?
[18:34] <shtylman_> Riddell: sorry...space usage on the disc
[18:34] <shtylman_> we are already over last time I checked
[18:34] <nixternal> Riddell: right, makes it easier in the long run
[18:34] <Riddell> shtylman_: we just won't have it installed, it'll need a dialogue saying "please install foo" which is what the gnome one has.  or even better kpackagekit integration to magically install foo
[18:35] <shtylman_> Riddell: gotcha...sounds good to me
[18:35] <shtylman_> rgreening: where is your code then? hidden far far away :p ?
[18:38] <nixternal> oh koffice is such a pita
[18:38] <Riddell> nixternal: moved to universe
[18:39] <Riddell> nixternal: koffice is a beast, it should be split up into manageable source releases
[18:39] <nixternal> well, once it is better, the release that is, and the packaging is all fixed up, it will be good to go
[18:39] <nixternal> looks like I have to patch a cmake module (or 2)
[18:40] <Riddell> nixternal: really?  why's that?
[18:40] <nixternal> not finding create-resources
[18:40] <Riddell> hmm
[18:49] <Quintasan|Szel> :o
[18:49] <Quintasan|Szel> apachelogger: this call by reference is sick when used with structures
[18:49] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: how so?
[18:50] <Quintasan|Szel> well anyways, reference is basically a alias for a variable and if we pass a reference to a function it operates on the actual variable instead of creating a copy of it, right?
[18:51] <apachelogger> simply put ;)
[18:52] <apachelogger> technically a reference is the memory address where the data is stored
[18:52] <Quintasan|Szel> apachelogger: well, I have prototype (and later a function which does couts) -> sysop & use(sysop & ref) where sysop is struct declarated earlier
[18:52] <apachelogger> and you can imagine that the memory then gets casted as per function head
[18:53] <apachelogger> :D
[18:53] <Quintasan|Szel> and the fun begins
[18:53] <apachelogger> well
[18:53] <apachelogger> you should write it differently :P
[18:54] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-hook_duttaC.html
[18:54] <apachelogger> see section Declarations
[18:55] <apachelogger> though IMHO that applies to a lot more than declaration
[18:55] <apachelogger> for example dereferencing ;)
[18:56] <Quintasan|Szel> apachelogger: well, ya saw the prototype. they call the function use() -> use(use(petlarz));  and I'm like wtf
[18:56] <Quintasan|Szel> the function use returns the a structure, right?
[18:57] <Quintasan|Szel> I really wonder why that works :D
[18:59] <Quintasan|Szel> oh, now I get
[18:59] <Quintasan|Szel> I though the function returns an int but thats not the case
[19:00] <apachelogger> Oo
[19:00] <apachelogger> why would it?
[19:00] <apachelogger> well, i am guessing here
[19:00] <apachelogger> but I suppose petlarz is of type sysop?
[19:00] <Quintasan|Szel> they put over 9000 comments here and I'm little bit confused
[19:01] <Quintasan|Szel> apachelogger: yes it i.
[19:01] <Quintasan|Szel> is even
[19:01] <apachelogger> oh wellz
[19:01] <apachelogger> use(petlarz) would return a sysop too
[19:01] <apachelogger> so you can call it recurisvely
[19:02] <Quintasan|Szel> yeah, thats why the cout in use() occured twice when called like use(use(petlarz))
[19:02] <Quintasan|Szel> hngh
[19:02] <Quintasan|Szel> It seems too me that reference is like a pointer
[19:03] <apachelogger> well
[19:03] <apachelogger> sec
[19:03] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: http://tugll.tugraz.at/91675/weblog/9289.html
[19:03] <apachelogger> that is why I said to your earlier description of a reference that it was "simply put"
[19:03] <apachelogger> a reference really is just a memory address
[19:04] <Quintasan|Szel> aint pointers the same thing?
[19:04] <apachelogger> kinda ;)
[19:04] <Quintasan|Szel> they also store memory addresses:P
[19:04] <apachelogger> though a pointer itself has a reference
[19:04] <Quintasan|Szel> ...what?
[19:04] <Quintasan|Szel> :D
[19:04] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: read the blog :P
[19:05] <apachelogger> a pointer does have an address itself
[19:05] <apachelogger> it even requires memory (usually the same amount as int ... i.e. 4b)
[19:05] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: so *ptr != &ptr
[19:06] <apachelogger> former will derefernce the pointer, latter will return the address-of the pointer
[19:07] <Quintasan|Szel> oh man
[19:08] <Quintasan|Szel> it feels like speaking with computer, eally
[19:08] <Quintasan|Szel> really*
[19:08] <apachelogger> ^^
[19:08] <Quintasan|Szel> :P
[19:08] <apachelogger> you have no idea :P
[19:09] <Quintasan|Szel> it's like you code and "Hey, makes perfect sense!" then you compile and compiler throws tomatoes at you because it actually makes no sense at all
[19:09] <Quintasan|Szel> :P
[19:10] <apachelogger> Quintasan|Szel: yeah, compilers are good with that
[19:12] <Quintasan|Szel> a semi-colon makes a whole big difference
[19:12] <Quintasan|Szel> :D
[19:12] <apachelogger> that just takes time to get used to
[19:12] <Quintasan|Szel> you forget two semi-colons and you get a wall of errors
[19:12] <apachelogger> after 1k sloc you make one without noticing;
[19:13] <apachelogger> ;);
[19:13] <Quintasan|Szel> :D
[19:13] <Quintasan|Szel> std::cout << "MMkay, semi-colons are important" << endl;
[19:13] <apachelogger> erm
[19:14] <apachelogger> \n
[19:14] <Quintasan|Szel> though I should using namespace std;
[19:14] <apachelogger> :P
[19:16] <Quintasan|Szel> oh yeah, pointer to a pointer to a pointer
[19:16] <Quintasan|Szel> makes perfect sense
[19:16] <Quintasan|Szel> :S
[19:17] <Quintasan|Szel> apachelogger: oh lol, this IBM page really makes me laugh, see comments
[19:17] <Quintasan|Szel> :D
[19:19]  * apachelogger adores that page :D
[19:19] <apachelogger> a+++++b is a running gag at university now ;)
[19:19] <Quintasan|Szel> oh shi-
[19:20] <Quintasan|Szel> that also makes perfect sense
[19:20] <Quintasan|Szel> :O
[19:20] <apachelogger> ^^
[19:22] <Quintasan|Szel> well, I'm going back to books then. I've learned something new and I will probably ssh home at school and code something
[19:22] <Quintasan|Szel> ofc I will not be doing it while sitting in history lesson
[19:22] <Quintasan|Szel> :P
[19:23] <apachelogger> heh
[19:23] <apachelogger> omg!
[19:23] <apachelogger> if we had anymore printer stuff on the CD we could call us printbuntu
[19:24] <Quintasan|Szel> :D
[19:24]  * Quintasan|Szel still can't access his printer via samba on windows :/
[19:24] <Quintasan|Szel> it discovers the printer but fails to connect
[19:25] <Sput> apachelogger: is "a+++++b" even clearly defined by the spec?
[19:25] <apachelogger> Sput: nope
[19:25] <Sput> thought so
[19:25] <Sput> it'll compile though :)
[19:25]  * Quintasan|Szel tries a++++++++++++b
[19:25] <Quintasan|Szel> I wonder what happens
[19:25] <Quintasan|Szel> :P
[19:25] <apachelogger> Sput: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/aix/library/au-hook_duttaC.html
[19:25] <Quintasan|Szel> #define ++ ++++++++  //Enjoy debugging
[19:25] <Quintasan|Szel> :P
[19:27] <apachelogger> Riddell: there is some serious mess in the dictonary subsystem
[19:28] <apachelogger> we have both hunspell and aspell dicts on the CD
[19:28] <apachelogger> in fact I would say that neither should be on the CD
[19:28] <Quintasan|Szel> saves space, hint: kffmpegthumbnailer
[19:28] <Quintasan|Szel> :P
[19:28] <apachelogger> what is that? :P
[19:28] <apachelogger> do we have that on the CD?
[19:29] <apachelogger> so
[19:29] <apachelogger> kdelibs5 depends on libenchant
[19:29] <apachelogger> that depends on libhunspell and libaspell
[19:29] <apachelogger> and those recommend hunspell-en // aspell-en
[19:30] <apachelogger> so question one is: does language-selector install dicts at all
[19:30] <apachelogger> if so question two is: should the recommends be downgraded to suggests or should we blacklist the dicts
[19:35] <apachelogger> oh
[19:35]  * apachelogger boots kde*qtcurve off the CD
[19:35] <nixternal> Riddell: no need to patch a cmake module, but patched cmakelists.txt instead to fix a case typo - s/CreateResources_FOUND/CREATERESOURCES_FOUND/ - already upstream and backported for next release
[19:40] <apachelogger> fabo: ping
[19:40] <fabo> apachelogger: pong
[19:41] <apachelogger> fabo: hey, can you please change gtk2-engines-qtcurve in debian to not recommend but suggest kde-style-qtcurve?
[19:42] <apachelogger> since ubuntu installs recommends by default this a) tries to pull in KDE on gnome systems, even if the user only wants the gtk theme b) makes the KDE style end up on the kubuntu cd since we have the gtk2 theme on the cd
[19:43] <Riddell> apachelogger: we also have language-support-writing-en seeded
[19:43] <apachelogger> Riddell: is that for dicts?
[19:43] <fabo> a) and b) are good ;)
[19:43] <fabo> but i can do the change
[19:44] <apachelogger> I agree on a) not on b) :P
[19:44] <apachelogger> fabo: thanks :)
[19:44] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes
[19:44] <fabo> people could still use the meta qtcurve
[19:44] <apachelogger> right
[19:45] <apachelogger> Riddell: and what dict type would that prefer?
[19:45] <apachelogger> Riddell: maybe we should just conflict the other?
[19:46] <Riddell> apachelogger: I don't remember the details but this has been discussed plenty in the past by the desktop team
[19:47] <apachelogger> I would imagine so, it also seems like a hot topic :)
[19:47] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, I am booting kde-style-qtcruve and kwin-style-qtcurve off the CD (they are dragged in via recommends from the gtk engine)
[19:48] <Quintasan|Szel> Riddell: I'll pull a gluon package together tomorrow, where we will put it, from the wiki page I guess beta ppa would be best place
[19:49] <Quintasan|Szel> s/,/?
[19:50] <apachelogger> oh oh oh
[19:50] <apachelogger> bug!
[19:50] <apachelogger> bluetooth recommends bluez-gstreamer
[19:51] <Riddell> grr
[19:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: I suppose we should change that to suggests?
[19:51] <Riddell> I suppose too but check with whoever packages it since then bluez-gstreamer will need to be seeded on the ubuntu desktop CDs
[19:51] <apachelogger> okies
[19:51] <persia> Does kbluetooth not support audio?
[19:52]  * apachelogger is wondering if that even works
[19:52] <persia> Works for Ubuntu Desktop.
[19:52] <apachelogger> persia: I suppose it would be using phonon
[19:52] <apachelogger> well, kbluetooth is a whole different story :)
[19:52] <persia> and blueZ audio is messy: it's not ALSA, but needs transport layers.
[19:53] <persia> (hence bluez-gstreamer and bluez-pulse, etc.)
[19:53] <Riddell> "This package contains a plugin to operate with GStreamer applications"  we don't have any GStreamer applications so it doesn't sound interesting to us
[19:53] <persia> Fair :)
[20:00] <apachelogger> hm
[20:00] <apachelogger> Riddell: konq-plugins pulled in quite some stuff, so its removal should indeed free quite some space
[20:02] <Riddell> I'm tempted to rebuild the CDs to see what progress we've made
[20:02] <apachelogger> oh my
[20:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: we also have myspell
[20:03] <Riddell> spelling has been discussed before, no easy resolution found
[20:04] <apachelogger> well, we could settle on one engine for KDE, only ship that on the CD and install the others via language-selector
[20:07] <apachelogger> Riddell: myspell comes from language-support-writing
[20:08] <apachelogger> which also drags in hunspell-en-ca for fun
[20:08] <apachelogger> that is defenitely something to look into
[20:09] <apachelogger> is the kubuntu-feedback widget still used?
[20:11] <Riddell> myspell is used by openoffice, which is an important user of spell checking I thing
[20:11] <Riddell> hunspell is for israeli isn't it?
[20:11] <Lex79> Riddell:  virtuoso-nepomuk is on the CD ? is it built with lzma compression?
[20:11] <Riddell> hmm no, hunspell is a fork of myspell
[20:12] <apachelogger> Lex79: lzma does not influence CD space, espcially not the one of the live CD
[20:12] <apachelogger> maybe of the alternate
[20:12] <Riddell> Lex79: yes it's on the CD, don't believe it uses lzma
[20:12] <Lex79> ok
[20:13]  * apachelogger notes that the live CD is one filetree image that gets globally compressed with lzma
[20:13] <Riddell> apachelogger: kubuntu-feedback widget has so far not been used, but I'd like that to change for alpha 3 this week
[20:13] <Riddell> assuming nixternal has it all set up at his end
[20:13] <apachelogger> k :)
[20:13]  * apachelogger reads on
[20:15] <nixternal> Riddell: it should be golden, been golden for a bit
[20:15] <nixternal> http://static.nixternal.com/feedback/  <- Alpha 3 is on there
[20:17] <nixternal> I hate being a nice guy, I have to go over and shovel a family friends driveway
[20:19] <apachelogger> uhh
[20:19] <apachelogger> limesurvey
[20:19] <apachelogger> pretty nice software that is
[20:19] <neversfelde> cool software
[20:19] <apachelogger> totally
[20:20] <apachelogger> the icons could use a touch of oxygen though :D
[20:20] <neversfelde> hehe
[20:20] <apachelogger> one more pointless package down
[20:20] <apachelogger> muahaha
[20:20]  * apachelogger is evil
[20:23] <nixternal> apachelogger: yeah, if canonical would host the damn thing, we could fancy it up a bit
[20:23] <nixternal> but through the survey widget, nobody ever sees that page anyways
[20:24] <nixternal> http://static.nixternal.com/feedback.php  <- as the script redirects the widget to the correct survey
[20:24] <neversfelde> why do they not host it?
[20:24] <nixternal> we asked 6 months ago, so you have to give it another 2 years
[20:24] <apachelogger> why do they not give me a server so that I can script all sorts of fancy things? :P
[20:24] <nixternal> something about security, which is bogus
[20:24] <neversfelde> :(
[20:25] <apachelogger> nixternal: through plasma scripting we can do all sorts of fancy things to the survey widget
[20:25] <apachelogger> so it becomes more visible
[20:25] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, I think we should suffix the plasma scripts with numbers, so that other scripts can be added easily
[20:27] <Riddell> good idea
[20:30] <apachelogger> we have 12 ttf-* packages  :S
[20:37] <apachelogger> Riddell: bluez fix uploaded
[20:37] <Riddell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/daily-live/20100222.1/ amd64 685MB
[20:37] <Riddell> cor
[20:38] <Riddell> less than i386
[20:38] <apachelogger> sweet :D
[20:38] <Riddell> we have a lot of character sets to cover with our fonts
[20:39] <apachelogger> there are 3 packages alone for dejavu
[20:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: well, I think I squeezed all wrong recommends out of it
[20:53] <Daskreech> nixternal: Whooot :)
[20:53] <Daskreech> what did we oust?
[20:54]  * Daskreech ponders how much space OO.o takes up
[20:54] <apachelogger> hard to say with all the deps
[21:10] <nixternal> heh, lets really get people, replace oo.o with google docs or zoho office :)
[21:11]  * Daskreech sits back and waits for Debian to put out a Blu-Ray ISO
[21:11] <Daskreech> In fact lets have a Qt version of Chromium and ship just that on the CD with links to various online resources
[21:11] <Daskreech> We can call it KhromeOS
[21:12]  * Daskreech votes we do that by about First week in April
[21:13] <Tscheesy> use the plasma-Browser as Background -Object and its nearly done
[21:13] <Daskreech> Tscheesy: ha ha :)
[21:20] <apachelogger> Daskreech: without deps and compressed with lzma it seems to be ~62MiB
[21:21] <Daskreech> Hmm I would have guessed about 80
[21:21] <Daskreech> Oh wait without deps
[21:21] <Daskreech> ok
[21:21] <Daskreech> Of course that's not a pure gain since Koffice needs to replace it
[21:21] <nixternal> w00t, koffice built...now to go through and massage all of the list-missing...but first, time to go shovel snow...back in a bit
[21:21] <Daskreech> Or a heavy plasmoid :)
[21:21] <Daskreech> nixternal: use it to cool the CPU
[21:22] <nixternal> nah, my build box is wide open, good circulation, awesome cooler, and a quad core.... -j5 doesn't even heat it up
[21:23] <Daskreech> Well then Build a Snow Konqui
[21:25] <apachelogger> Daskreech: 64 including first level deps/recommends as per germinate (so there might be more but also less)
[21:26] <apachelogger> I suppose you are are around 70 with all deps that are pulled in by ooo
[21:26] <Daskreech> ok decent but still only a 3 year Hiatus till CD again becomes a ridiculous restriction
[21:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: can you please merge the seed branch with platform
[21:37] <Riddell> apachelogger: how do you mean?  we don't merge seeds anymore
[21:37] <apachelogger> oh
[21:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: how is that done then?
[21:38] <apachelogger> manually?
[21:39] <shtylman_> has kdebase ... etc been successfully imported into bzr ? or do we still only track the debian folder?
[21:40] <apachelogger> shtylman_: we will always only track the debian folder
[21:40] <apachelogger> full source branches take too long to branch and push and are just sluggish and unusable altogether
[21:41] <maco2> oh?
[21:41] <Riddell> apachelogger: kubuntu seeds inherit from platform, it's an include
[21:41] <apachelogger> ah
[21:41] <apachelogger> makes sense I guess :)
[21:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: thanks :)
[21:41] <maco2> i thought ScottK  said the reason we didnt have full source branches was because the imports failed
[21:42] <shtylman_> apachelogger: interesting.. I thought that there was a push to get all source packages under version control?
[21:42] <apachelogger> maco2: that is source imports in general
[21:42] <shtylman_> maco2: thats what I thought as well
[21:42] <apachelogger> shtylman_: sure, from a gnome perspective that works just fine
[21:42] <shtylman_> and was wondering if that was fixed
[21:42] <shtylman_> apachelogger: how do you figure?
[21:42] <apachelogger> but if I think about that kdebase-workspace is like 80 mib in compressed size
[21:43] <apachelogger> and we update that like 6 times a year
[21:43] <apachelogger> that grows pretty quickly
[21:43] <apachelogger> as if getting 80 mib was not bad enough you get the bzr overhead for free
[21:44] <apachelogger> so if you want to fix a nepomuk bug you first have to get 80++ mib of source
[21:44] <shtylman_> apachelogger: don't you have to do that now?
[21:44] <apachelogger> in the gnome world you would have gnome-nepomuk, one package, one branch, with considerable smaller size
[21:44] <shtylman_> how else can you fix the bug?
[21:44] <maco2> shtylman_: currently just the 80
[21:44] <shtylman_> you need the code
[21:44] <apachelogger> shtylman_: yep, but you dont get overhead
[21:45] <maco2> shtylman_: with the history and all it could be 150MiB or more...
[21:45] <shtylman_> apachelogger: but you could always just ignore the history
[21:45] <apachelogger> dont just mind the size
[21:45] <apachelogger> bzr is slow in general
[21:45] <shtylman_> there is always the option of getting just the head revision
[21:45] <apachelogger> shtylman_: bzr doesnt work like this
[21:45] <shtylman_> apachelogger: it does
[21:45] <maco2> but isnt there supposed to be a feature in bzr (or did they not implement it yet?) where you can say to only grab x revisions back? so you could say "just get the last revision"?
[21:45] <shtylman_> it can do that
[21:45] <shtylman_> maco2: yes
[21:45] <apachelogger> shtylman_: you can push from a checkout?
[21:45] <shtylman_> yes
[21:45] <shtylman_> iirc ... there is no technical reason why not
[21:46] <apachelogger> hm, in that case full source might be an option
[21:46] <shtylman_> cause you know your own parent
[21:46] <apachelogger> though it is still slow as hell
[21:46] <apachelogger> but that it is eitherway ;)
[21:46] <shtylman_> well..thats another matter :)
[21:46] <maco2> bzr's been getting faster in later releases, i thought
[21:46] <shtylman_> it has
[21:46] <apachelogger> yes
[21:46] <apachelogger> still too slow IMHO
[21:46] <shtylman_> heh
[21:46] <apachelogger> though I think it is faster than svn now
[21:46] <apachelogger> which is not exactly difficult to archive :P
[21:47] <shtylman_> I would like to see the kde sources in bzr and a checkout of just the head
[21:47] <shtylman_> I would bet it would be quite fast
[21:47] <apachelogger> git would be faster :P
[21:48] <shtylman_> :) that it would
[21:48] <shtylman_> but alas we lp doesn't use it :(
[21:48] <apachelogger> oh
[21:48] <shtylman_> s/we//
[21:48] <apachelogger> there is another thing
[21:49] <apachelogger> with a full source branch you need to compress the source over and over again
[21:49] <shtylman_> ?
[21:49] <shtylman_> what do you mean?
[21:49] <apachelogger> shtylman_: when uploading to the archives
[21:49] <apachelogger> you need to build a tarball
[21:49] <shtylman_> right
[21:49] <shtylman_> how do you do that now?
[21:49] <shtylman_> just compress the debian folder?
[21:50] <maco2> pristine tar?
[21:50] <apachelogger> source-format 4 does that
[21:50] <shtylman_> and it knows how to build the rest?
[21:50] <apachelogger> earlier does uncompress the tar and then diff
[21:50] <apachelogger> shtylman_: with pre-source-format-4 you have a diff.gz and a orig.tar.gz
[21:51] <apachelogger> to obtain the diff, the build tools extract the orig.tar.gz and diff it with your working tree
[21:51] <shtylman_> I see
[21:51] <apachelogger> in case of a debian-only-branch it would look like this:
[21:51] <shtylman_> yea..I follow
[21:51] <apachelogger> extract-orig - bzr export debian to orig-tree - extract-orig again - diff the two trees
[21:51] <apachelogger> with source format 4 it just tars up the debian dir and is done with it
[21:52] <shtylman_> hmm
[21:52] <apachelogger> since source format 4 enforces out-of-source patches, which was earlier not the case, thus the diffing
[21:52] <shtylman_> I see
[21:52] <apachelogger> in fact it was common practise to apply small patches directly to the soruce
[21:52] <apachelogger> ugly mess *shudder*
[21:52] <shtylman_> well..yea... that part would most certainly slow down
[21:52] <shtylman_> but then again... the longer term plan is to jsut tell lp to build a branch
[21:52] <shtylman_> so that avoids the whole tar and upload part
[21:53] <apachelogger> right
[21:53] <apachelogger> but longer term really means long in canonical terms :P
[21:53] <shtylman_> heh
[21:53] <maco2> how long did archive reorg take?
[21:53] <shtylman_> no pun intended... :p
[21:54] <shtylman_> apachelogger: it might not be that long term
[21:54] <apachelogger> maco2: like 3 years?
[21:54] <shtylman_> bzr builddeb works quite nicely
[21:54] <shtylman_> I think just the lp infrastructure is getting built
[21:56] <maco2> apachelogger: when i told crimsun after last uds that theyd been talking about archive reorg and final "what will happen to motu?" stuff he said they'd been talking about reorg at every uds for years and still nothing had happened.  though apparently this time it actually happened
[21:57] <apachelogger> I saw a discussion again ;)
[21:57] <apachelogger> maco2: it is more in a trial stage right now
[21:57] <apachelogger> so I suspect next uds will be trial evaluation ;)
[22:31] <ofirk> Is there someone here who has good english?
[22:31] <Daskreech> No our english ain't what some of them there brits would be calling "propa"
[22:32] <ofirk> I need help with the slogans for the new feature tour (for the new website)
[22:33] <Daskreech> ok what do you have so far?
[22:34] <ofirk> I have 4 main features that I would like to make slogans for them
[22:34] <ofirk> the first is "stable"
[22:34] <ofirk> and the slogan needs to be something like "kubuntu is made for stability, so don't expect it to crash"
[22:35] <Daskreech> Is it? :)
[22:35] <ofirk> I hope so :)
[22:36] <ofirk> Do you have some remarks about that slogan?
[22:36] <Daskreech> Kubuntu inherits the stability of UNIX so don't expect lost work and frustrating crashes
[22:37] <ofirk> use that as a slogan ???
[22:37] <Daskreech> I'm just offering one
[22:37] <ofirk> this is too complicated for the simple user
[22:38] <Daskreech> No blue Screens of Death! Only Blue screens of Joy
[22:38] <ofirk> lol
[22:46] <Zorael> "We have kookies."
[22:47] <Daskreech> :-D
[22:48] <nixternal> wi36
[22:48] <nixternal> hrmm
[22:51] <ryanakca> ofirk: Riddell had some friendly slogans if I remember correctly.
[22:55] <Daskreech> Should hire wade for some He has some good visuals and word combos
[23:44] <ScottK> maco: What apachelogger said is why we wouldn't want to use full source branches even if we had them.  What I said is why we don't have them.
[23:50] <neversfelde> ScottK: quassel 0.6 works with a 0.5 core, I guess not all new features, but it is no problem so far
[23:51] <ScottK> neversfelde: Thanks.  Good to know.
[23:55] <neversfelde> Riddell: I worked on kbluetooth, but my desktop is broken now :(. You offered me to get access to your server some time ago?