[02:30] in system settings in lucid waht is the open collarabitve services provider management used for? [02:31] ghns ? [02:33] the login is for opendesktop.org [02:35] that's for the social desktop plasmoid [02:36] which is different then the microblog plasmoid? [02:36] Yes [02:37] hrmm ok, will have to figure out what the point of social desktop is [02:38] Umm mostly I'd say it's chestbeating as well as ironing out bugs on some stuff [02:38] cheastbeating? [02:38] i'm more important then you? [02:38] like you have an opendesktop login (kde-look kde-apps etc) [02:39] more like look we have a social desktop [02:39] i have an opendesktop login but no idea what to do w/ it [02:39] hrmm socialdesktop.org [02:39] In theory if you travel to a new country the plasmoid will show you people from that country based on the profile/ip address [02:40] the last person on the list of people near me is the only one who is actually close to me [02:40] and do stuff like rank them based on them being in the same groups as you on the site [02:48] I'd like to use it more but I forgot my login and I don't run plasma [02:48] When those two get fixed I'll look again === wgrant_ is now known as wgrant [03:20] claydoh: ping === claydoh_ is now known as claydoh [03:20] claydoh: ping [03:21] daskreech: pong, denting a reply :) [03:21] claydoh: :-) [03:22] well Ill spell it out my kde3 based ones are ok, just not up to date [03:22] that's for both hardy and karmic [03:22] Yeah I noticed [03:23] I removed them and my kmymonkey updated [03:23] the kde4 based ones need updating to svn code, as ofx importing is broken in the current beta [03:23] Money [03:23] damn now I want an app called Kmymonkey [03:23] I don't even care what it does [03:23] sweet app get coding! [03:23] I"m trying to code a KDE Y! client [03:23] based on the Gyache code [03:24] id rather have something with monkeys [03:25] but really that sounds cool too [03:27] Trying to do LPI next week so stydying all this week [03:28] may do some coding inbetween [03:28] Ubuntu is about the time period where I said it's going to start sucking [03:29] CD space is going to force some hard choices [03:34] I should check in with the Basket team [03:44] Riddell: where do we stand on the smd stuff? [03:44] *smb [03:45] I see it got postponed... [03:45] is it still far off? [03:51] nixternal: are there still plans for a netbook specific slideshow? [04:04] shtylman: I guess so...I figured you would know that one :) If so, all I have to do is type them up. They are on my todo list, but there were a couple of things yet to do in front of them. A bit busy lately, and then tonight and tomorrow, I will be pushing snow yet again :/ [04:05] nixternal: no hurry... whenever you have the text just send it along [04:05] if we make it...we make it [04:05] if not...no biggie [04:06] shoot, I was just talking to you in another channel :) [04:06] I saw your message in my highlight window and just started responding :) [04:06] oh, I am sure we will make it. I can get them done this week, at least by next week [04:08] haha [04:08] what channel? [04:09] one that I am also in? or just some random channel? [04:25] some random channel [04:25] on OFTC at that [07:06] guys [07:06] more and more people are complaining about buggy USB auto-mounting [07:06] I hear it everywhere [07:06] is anything being done about it? [07:06] * daskreech should get a USB thing [07:06] that should be an ultra-high priority item, imho [07:06] people are starting to migrate to other distros... [07:07] think about it :) [07:07] Shuttleworth could hire a kernel guy for looking at it [07:07] or else you'll have many Arch Linux users soon [07:07] (it's starting to happen...) [07:08] markey: are you experiencing this on karmic or lucid? [07:08] Karmic [07:08] I'm not going to use an Alpha or Beta just because of this [07:08] (neither are other users) [07:09] markey: strange, as I seem (havent really debugged yet) to have issues wth my us tv card and card reader on my fiancees machin [07:09] jussi01: the more devices you attach, the worse it gets [07:09] s/us/usb/ [07:09] from what I can see [07:09] seems maybe someone borked someting [07:09] try an USB hub (actively powered, and 2 HDDs and some other devices [07:10] yes, borked UDev or so [07:10] it affects all devices, keyboards, printers, HDDs, media players... [07:11] maco2: what the heck are you doing up...? :D [07:11] jussi01: discovering that network-manager segfaults as soon as it starts on my karmic system? [07:12] also: reading a physics book because exam in 9 hours [07:12] seems everyone has issues today... [07:15] one example of buggy USB: [07:15] http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=116&t=85998&p=148867#p148865 [07:15] (we get to see a lot of those) === sabdfl1 is now known as sabdfl [08:48] shtylman: nobody has started coding on SMB stuff so I set it to postponed [08:50] Riddell: have you anythoughts on markey's USB issue? Im starting to see some issues on Sari's karmic machine :/ [08:52] not really, various people reported unreliability but nobody had much clue of a cause and most didn't have it as bad as markey https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-January/030033.html [09:11] what was the problem with aptitude again when upgrading to KDE SC 4.4? [09:31] Mamarok: that we do not QA against aptitutde and apt-get is superior ;) [09:32] can't remember in particular, but I think aptitude had problems resolving the deps properly [09:32] ah [09:35] Mind you, this is potentially a bug in the packages, but it's not one that anyone checks against, so if one wants aptitude to work, one needs to do their own QA. [09:38] for KDE stack upgrades I think it is mostly wrong usage making aptitude resolving deps in a crappy manner (like say block upgrades to some graphics app because it would require exchanging one of underlying libs) [09:41] There's ways to define package relationships that work for both resolvers. It's just extra work. [09:41] no need to get a feature freeze exception for bugfix releases, is this still correct? [09:50] persia: well, I doubt aptitude upgrade will remove packages? [09:50] in which case the best package relationships wouldnt help [09:50] neversfelde: aighto [09:51] apachelogger: I think this means yes :) [09:51] apachelogger: Aptitude will certainly remove packages under some conditions. It just has different conditions. [09:51] But like I said, it's not worth fixing. [09:57] persia: apachelogger: aptitude needs no fixing, IMHO. It removes a package when deborphan says some package is not being used by any other package. If aptitude removes needed packages when upgrading to KDE 4.4.0, then 4.4.0 packages have missing dependencies. [09:58] bug 525658 needs a sponsor [09:58] Launchpad bug 525658 in kdebluetooth "new upstream bugfix release 0.4.2" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525658 [09:58] I did not say that it removes packages, I said it does refuse to do so [09:59] when migrating from libfoo1 to libfoo2 as part of a KDE stack upgrade I saw reports of aptitude refusing to do so and marking everything depending on libfoo as blocked [09:59] apachelogger: aptitude refuses to remove packages when the 'score' is too high (i. e. the potential breakage to the system is too high) [10:00] apachelogger: if you mean libkdcraw, aptitude works fine for me: it says it will break krita and whatnot [10:00] but I think aptitude is right and it's just a matter of some missing KOffice packages. I can't remember the details now. [10:00] pgquiles: hence I claimed that most of the aptitude issues are PEBKAC issues ;) [10:01] apachelogger: which I agree [10:01] :-) [10:01] no, the removal of krita is just fine [10:01] libkdcraw has weird packaging [10:01] disallowing the lib package of 7 and 8 to be installed along each other [10:01] there's something which does need fixing, though: KPackageKit does not remove packages, at least not those listed as 'Conflicts', while aptitude will do it fine [10:02] pgquiles: That aptitude works for you is good, but like apachelogger said, it's not part of the Ubuntu QA process, so there's absolutely no guarantee it works. [10:02] It could work, but that needs someone to commit to doing QA, and fixing any issues discovered. [10:03] pgquiles: that is a problem of the underlying backend [10:13] Riddell: bug #525668 [10:13] Launchpad bug 525668 in update-notifier-kde "Please remove update-notifier-kde (source only) from lucid" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525668 [10:23] didn't I do that? [10:24] Riddell: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier-kde indicates you didnt [10:25] done [10:26] Riddell: thanks, btw, could you please set the main branch for the kubuntu-default-settings project [10:26] otherwise bzr branch lp:kubuntu-default-settings doesnt work :( [10:28] apachelogger: done [10:29] Riddell: thank you :) [10:30] Riddell: can we kill kubuntu-artwork-usplash? [10:30] it appears ubuntu-artwork-usplash is already dead [10:32] usplash in general is mostly dead. [10:33] hm [10:33] !info usplash-theme-ubuntu lucid [10:34] poor bot :D [10:34] usplash-theme-ubuntu (source: usplash-theme-ubuntu): Usplash theme for Ubuntu. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.27 (lucid), package size 36 kB, installed size 192 kB [10:34] well, it seems that package here does not have any relation with ubuntu-artwork-usplash, even though I am quite sure that is what the package was called at some point [10:35] apachelogger: yes we can [10:35] ok, nuking it [10:57] if [ "$DESKTOP" = "kde" ]; then [10:57] apachelogger: where does that variable come from? [10:57] Riddell: kpk [10:58] "Please file a but in your distribution" typo [10:58] but no dantii to complain to [10:59] ^^ [11:02] neversfelde: when are you applying as MOTO btw? [11:02] neversfelde: that kbluetooth .dsc needs a .orig.tar.gz, the bug only has .orig.tar.bz2 [11:04] hmm, did it rename from kdebluetooth to KBluetooth ? [11:05] apachelogger: I do not have the time to open and organize the MOTO team, so I decided to apply as a MOTU :) [11:05] Riddell: one moment, I'll have a look and as far as I know it was renamed some time ago [11:06] "This is a continuation of kde-bluetooth, but with a very different philosophy" suggest the new maintainer renamed it http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php/kbluetooth?content=112110 [11:06] maybe we should rename the package then [11:07] Riddell: I can do it [11:26] I wonder if splitting out /usr/share/icons/oxygen/256x256/ to save space on amd64 would be sensible [11:27] Riddell: I do not think 256 features a complete set [11:48] it's not, and scaling up from 128 actually looks not bad so I think that's an acceptable loss if we include the icons in our "suggested packages notification" === steveire is now known as steveire_lunch [12:00] using lzma on oxygen-icons saves 2-3MB straight away [12:01] Riddell: shouldnt it be LZMAd anyway? [12:01] * apachelogger is implementing lzma for kde.pm right now [12:01] or at least trying to ;) [12:02] agateau: ping [12:06] yippee... all my window decorations are gone, as is my plasma stuff... [12:07] It's a spare look, for extra performance. [12:08] to quote sheldon: "there there" [12:08] ^^ [12:11] jussi01: I trade that for my "no keyboard in Xorg" [12:12] http://paste.ubuntu.com/381551/ [12:12] there my superior perl skills strike again [12:12] muhahaha :D [12:14] elite [12:17] http://paste.ubuntu.com/381554/ [12:17] ok oxygen uploaded with 256 icons split out and lzma in use, saving of 9MB [12:26] ok, could someone try replicate a bug in 4.4 for me? go to system settings, appearance, style, workspace and try change the them a few times... [12:27] warning. for me I have to restart as plasma crashes and there is no alt+f2 or anything [12:37] apachelogger: pong [12:38] agateau: is the indicator plasmoid intent to not behave like others? === steveire_lunch is now known as steveire [12:38] namely the fact that it is not removable, unless one is in panel editing mode and that it is always visible [12:38] apachelogger: how does it not behave like others? [12:38] apachelogger: oh, you mean you can't right click it? [12:39] yep [12:39] apachelogger: this is fixed [12:39] ok, and the visiblity? [12:39] apachelogger: with the new version, if it's in the systemtray it can autohide itself [12:39] not if it's in the panel, yet [12:40] agateau: is that version already in the archives? [12:40] because mine does neither react to right clicks nor does it autohide :) [12:40] * agateau checks [12:41] apachelogger: it is, you need version 0.5.1 [12:43] * apachelogger restarts plasma [12:43] ah [12:43] perfect [12:43] * apachelogger hugs agateau [12:43] love it :D [12:43] great! [12:43] Riddell: lzma for debhelper all QA'd too :D [12:56] * apachelogger feels like a spammer somehow ^^ [12:59] apachelogger: shadeslayer? yes, that's what he is [12:59] * Tm_T hides [13:00] *sigh* [13:00] mom! [13:03] hmm [13:05] well in case youre thinking about the quits and joins,twas because vlc fullscreen + Chromium os = one heck of a party :P [13:20] apachelogger: I didn't know I was in this channel because of how quassel works. Did you fix your akonadi issue? [13:28] apachelogger: you noticed the ubuntu gnome guys made Mutter to her WM :D [13:28] iam waiting now for Vater too lol [13:29] ehem, i have a question about the kwin effects [13:29] who is doing them :) [13:30] kwin developers [13:30] thx [13:57] hmm apparently i found a very annoying bug in the kde comics plasmoid [13:58] try and search for any comic via the search bar.. the search crashes :P [14:53] steveire: no, it seems to be a conceptual problem with akonadi and mysql 5.1 [14:55] mysql 5.1 expects a set of default tables to be available, those can only be created by mysql_install_db, which is currently not taken into account by akonadi [14:55] also, what I just came to think about, what happens when the mysqld gets upgraded to an incompatible version? [14:55] i.e. such as that the database tables need to be upgraded by some tool [14:56] IMHO that whole mysql business is just one big bloody mess [14:56] on the other hand I might just not understand the deeper logic [14:57] steveire: bug 448705 also kde bug 185395 [14:57] Launchpad bug 448705 in akonadi "akonadi server doesn't start at login" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/448705 [14:57] KDE bug 185395 in server "Table 'mysql servers' doesn't exist" [Normal,New] http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=185395 [14:57] * apachelogger notes that simply running that script is not going to be any good for kubuntu 9.10, since the script is in the main server package === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [15:20] Riddell: I suppose we could make Qt use lzma too? [15:21] * apachelogger notes that this does not help with the CD, since that is lzma compressed anyway [15:22] apachelogger: so what are you suggesting? [15:23] to make space on the CD? remove openoffice :S [15:23] * apachelogger tries to get a look at the CD, but qemu does not seem to let him [15:23] what are you suggesting for Qt? [15:24] CD space should be fine with the oxygen icon change [15:24] Riddell: add the appropriate build rule to compress the deb data with lzma, thus reducing the size of packages to download [15:24] Riddell: just imagine how much finer the CD would be without openoffice, we could even ship uncrippled artwork then :/ [15:25] Riddell: IIRC -dbg packages shrunk by almos 50% with lzma [15:31] apachelogger: getting rid of openoffice is tempting but koffice isn't stable enough to replace it yet and I'm not sure the world has moved away enough from office suites to get rid of it (although Ubuntu Netbook did) [15:32] Riddell: well, we'll conduct that survey and then see [15:32] but I suppose indeed that kubuntu-netbook would be the first target that replaces ooo with ko [15:32] the largest packag eont he CD is openoffice.org-core [15:32] followed by foomatic-db-gutenprint [15:33] linux-image is only third [15:33] we should drop openoffice from netbook [15:33] * apachelogger is wondering how a driver db can be that large [15:34] also, do we need thesaurus by default? [15:34] almost in the top ten === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan [15:34] awesome [15:35] Riddell: konq-plugins-l10n should be installed by language-selector IMHO [15:35] it only contains documentation [15:36] uhm [15:36] we have gnome-keyring on the CD Oo [15:37] lol [15:37] apachelogger: thumbs up for lzma [15:37] * Quintasan hands apachelogger few cookies [15:38] * apachelogger must save them for later [15:38] umm, we also have network-manager-gnome [15:39] oh that's because we don't install plasma-widget-networkmanagement any more [15:39] because it's now network-manager-kde again [15:39] * apachelogger installs germinate [15:40] so network-manager Recommends: network-manager-gnome | plasma-widget-networkmanagement and brings in network-manager-gnome [15:40] well [15:40] IMHO [15:40] nm should recommend nm-frontend [15:40] and nm-gnome and nm-kde should provide nm-frontend [15:41] makes sense, at least for me [15:41] :) [15:44] ok, fixing nm should get rid of gconf* gksu, gnome-keyring, libgnome* [15:44] Riddell: are you working on that already? [15:45] openoffice.org-math is also on again [15:45] -.- [15:46] yes I am [15:46] cool [15:46] gdebi is also one large beast -.- [15:46] openoffice.org-writer recommends openoffice.org-maths, maybe we can moan to calc? [15:47] Riddell: we could just blacklist math [15:47] first I need to find the branch url though :D [15:47] branch for what? [15:47] bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu-seeds/kubuntu.lucid/ ? [15:48] right, thanks :) [15:52] Riddell: I suppose we could also save some space by not installing all of konq-plugins (i.e. split the searchbar again) === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [15:53] I think we do [15:53] apachelogger: konqueror-plugin-searchbar is what's in the seed === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [15:54] Riddell: it is a fake package the description says [15:54] + it depends on konq-plugins [15:54] which in turn seems to recommend or depend konq-plugins-l10n [15:54] yeah, package is empty [15:55] all debian's fault it seems :P [15:55] hmm, right [15:56] ok network-manager_0.8-0ubuntu2_source.changes uploaded [15:57] also, I think after lucid we should rethink the default font [15:57] dejavu is a bit of an ugly beast [15:57] "a bit" [15:58] ubuntu desktop includes ttf-liberation [15:59] well, I am more about default [15:59] shipping a superior font doesnt change the uglyness of the default [15:59] I think they may be using it as the default, I don't remember [15:59] hm [16:00] IIRC nuno liked liberation ;) [16:00] that said, we should consult with upstream on this topic [16:00] it's whole raison d'etre is to be "the same as microsoft" which leaves a bad taste in my mouth [16:00] nuno is upstream I guess, doubt anyone else in KDE knows or cares much about fonts [16:00] upstream == oxygen as a whole ;) [16:13] apachelogger: want me to split out konq plugin searchbar then? [16:14] Riddell: already on it [16:14] groovy [16:18] hm [16:18] Riddell: isn't oxygencursors now part of kdebase? if so I am wondering why we are still using the one from oxygencursors [16:19] apachelogger: it's part of kdebase-workspace I think, we follow debian in packaging it separately, I don't know why they prefer to do that [16:20] oh ... IIRC the oxygencursors source contains more colors [16:20] not sure if that is a good reason to prefer it though [16:20] grumble, they should all be put into kdeartwork, kdebase really shouldn't be the place for artwork options [16:21] main color should be in kdebase IMHO [16:21] yes [16:21] but the rest should be in kdeartwork. same goes for wallpapers etc [16:22] ruphy: didn't I sign you up for maintaining kdeartwork? :P [16:24] kdeartwork has never been properly maintained [16:25] kdeadmin is another that needs some love, apparently [16:26] it has a maintainer, I think i saw him proposing to scrap old stuff recently [16:26] kdetoys on the other hand.. [16:27] IMHO maintenance must be more aggressive [16:27] stuffthat cant be supported properly needs to go [16:31] kwin devs arent vry responding if you aks them anything :) [16:31] * ghostcube hugs the kubuntu-devs [16:34] Riddell: new konq-plugins uploaded [16:34] that should take another 11MiB off the CD if I am right === Zorael^2 is now known as Zorael [16:34] apachelogger: did you update bzr? [16:34] bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/konq-plugins/ubuntu/ [16:34] ohhh [16:34] shoot [16:34] :D [16:35] konq-plugins isn't 11MiB [16:35] Riddell: dpkg said something like that [16:36] oh, apt-get it was [16:36] sec [16:36] "Need to get 485kB of archives." [16:36] oh [16:36] 11MiB uncompressed [16:38] lucid: [16:38] The following packages have unmet dependencies: [16:38] krita-kde4: Depends: libkdcraw7 (>= 4:4.3.2) but it is not going to be installed [16:38] Riddell: anyhow, pushed branch update [16:38] are we aware of this? [16:38] * apachelogger was only aware of it on karmic [16:38] yes, poke nixternal to finish off koffice [16:39] and is there a reason krita-kde4 still exists, not krita... [16:39] Riddell: ahh [16:39] "After this operation, 2,396kB of additional disk space will be used." not 11MiB [16:39] * jussi01 goes to hunt nixternal's [16:40] * apachelogger thinks aptitude should be kicked off the CD [16:42] I never spotted that before, wonder why it's there [16:42] bug 252044 [16:42] Launchpad bug 252044 in ubuntu-meta "Intrepid: Alpha 3 aptitude not installed in base installation" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/252044 [16:43] Riddell: should be dropped IMHO [16:43] vim/emacs is also superior to nano [16:43] yet we do not ship any of the two in addition to nano [16:43] those that wish to use aptitude can invoke the apt-get oneliner to install it [16:45] seems like an issue with some history though [16:45] I would imagine [16:45] probably needs discussed on ubuntu-devel [16:46] * apachelogger expects loads of whining :S [16:47] dunno, plenty of people don't like apititude [16:47] since when did we ship more than one app for the same task? [16:47] aptitude is used in alternative-cd installe [16:47] Riddell: well, others do like it ;) [16:48] err, there's option to run aptitude, anyway [16:48] Tm_T: I would suppose that is if -x aptitude [16:48] ? [16:49] Tm_T: I suppose the option will not be shown if aptitude is not there [16:49] true that, though I supposed it might be useful for some [16:49] I know I had to fiddle with it once [16:50] so keep it on the alternate but drop it from the live cd [16:50] agreed on that [16:50] there is more space on the alternate due to missing ubiquity anyway (I guess) [16:50] yes, quite a bit more [16:51] seems like a fair compromise too [16:51] how big is aptitude? [16:51] 1.7MB said that bug report [16:51] Riddell: no that was incorrect [16:51] ouch [16:52] not very big I would suppose [16:52] but still [16:52] it's a 1.5MB download [16:52] Size: 1468332 [16:52] which would be worth getting rid of [16:53] indeed [16:53] omg [16:53] Installed-Size: 8620 ...that means ~8.5 MiB ? [16:53] Riddell: please navigate to your ubiquity branch and run : sudo apt-get install kdesdk-scripts; optimizegraphics [16:54] there are a billion pixmaps in there and none are optimized [16:55] Tm_T: I think so [16:56] but uncompressed is nothing to go bye [16:56] s/bye/by ^^ [16:56] hmm [16:57] I'm afraid I have too many tests this week :( [16:59] ubiquity artwork should be updated to match kde 4.4 anyway [17:01] true [17:02] Quintasan: I suppose you should be learning [17:04] optimizegraphics: Losslessly optimized PNG and SVGZ files with "optipng -o5" and "advdef -z -4". [17:04] Reduced disk space: 160KB (0MB) [17:04] nice but not massive [17:06] jussi01: yes, I have already fixed that libkdcraw7->8 thing in the package I am massaging....should have it uploaded today [17:06] apachelogger: well, I intend to but I was wondering what I shall do next and after seeing our Todo I think I will do some packaging and stick to learning c++ [17:07] * Quintasan just realised he has to learn only biology [17:09] lucid just booted from Grub to KDM in under 10 seconds!!! [17:09] that is freakin' fast [17:09] I saw the plymouth splash thing for a few seconds, and then boom, there was KDM [17:09] impressive! [17:10] * Quintasan notes it boots that fast even on KVM [17:25] Riddell: is it too late to poke at the smb feature? ... is it worth the effort? cause if so I will gladly take a look [17:25] shtylman_: it would need a feature freeze exception, so we'd need to be sure it was well testing and working [17:26] however since the current code is 100% broken, it's not like it could make things much worse [17:26] so yes it would be worth it [17:26] ping rgreening for the stuff he had at UDS [17:26] Riddell: will do [18:06] hrmm, virtuoso packages are listed in the "no longer required" area when doing apt-get...is there something wrong or is this expected? [18:08] only virtuoso-nepomuk is useful [18:08] rest can go [18:09] groovy, thanks! [18:20] hey shtylman_ / Riddell. Sry I've been rather absentee... im going trough a major transition with work and have been tied up. [18:20] shtylman_: have a read over the spec. most of the details are there to make the required changes. [18:21] rgreening: no worries... I understand how work can be :) [18:21] shtylman_: let me know when you have reviewed and we can set up some time to go over it.. I may be able to free up some time to help get it done. [18:21] rgreening: do you have a branch published somewhere? [18:21]