[00:02] <hggdh> or on a current version, correct
[00:14] <Tiibiidii> hi... i tried to reproduce a bug i reported this last june... but i'm unsure about one thing
[00:14] <Tiibiidii> whoever is using a laptop: does you screen dims when inactive? (before going totally black/starting the screensaver i mean)
[00:15] <hggdh> Tiibiidii: not mine (Lucid)
[00:15] <Tiibiidii> ok...
[00:15] <Tiibiidii> hggdh, do you remember if back in karmic it was still working?
[00:16] <hggdh> Tiibiidii: I *think* it was
[00:16] <hggdh> but not sure
[00:16] <Anzenketh> Thanks hggdh.
[00:16] <Tiibiidii> due to an annoying bug i disabled the dimming... but to reproduce this very bug i need it enable... but it seems that now it isn't possibile at all
[00:16] <Tiibiidii> ok
[00:17] <hggdh> Tiibiidii: I still see the option to dim on 10.4
[00:17] <Tiibiidii> and by enabling it... does it work? (i know... it's rather boring to stand still waiting for the screen to dim)
[00:17] <Tiibiidii> (thank you however)
[00:17] <hggdh> Tiibiidii: will try
[00:18] <Anzenketh> I am working on cleaning up bug 525534. The reporter points to a blog post that states that someone is working on a issue with x.org upstream.  Would that be considered already reported(even though I have not found a duplicate bug report yet) or should I clean up the bug.
[00:18] <Tiibiidii> thanks again... and don't bother to reply if you're trying right now :)
[00:18] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525534 in xorg (Ubuntu) "[karmic] gnome-power-manager warns about a bug in xserver (blanking problem) (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525534
[00:19] <hggdh>   Tiibiidii yes, it dims
[00:20] <Anzenketh> Thanks for your help on helping me get used to this.
[00:20] <Tiibiidii> ok... hggdh, so this is yet another bug with my system? should i report it? ...i fear it may be some sort of misconfiguration on my end (even though i don't really know how it could've went wrong)
[00:21] <hggdh> Anzenketh: I think this has been reported already (but I do not remember the bug #)
[00:21] <hggdh> Tiibiidii: what do you mean, another bug?
[00:21] <Anzenketh> OK I will see if I can find it.
[00:21] <hggdh> what is your Ubuntu version?
[00:21] <Tiibiidii> my laptop doesn't dim
[00:21] <Tiibiidii> karmic
[00:22] <Tiibiidii> i tried tweaking around inside gconf-settings to make it work... but afaik it could've made it worse
[00:22] <hggdh> Tiibiidii: OK. Keep in mind I am running Lucid.
[00:22] <hggdh> yes, you could ;-)
 I am working on cleaning up bug 525534. The reporter points to a blog post that states that someone is working on a issue with x.org upstream.  Would that be considered already reported(even though I have not found a duplicate bug report yet) or should I clean up the bug. <-- this bug has a shitload of duplicates... due to the fact it's very visible... i'm also affected by it... here's one of the num
[00:23] <Tiibiidii> erous duplicates: <Anzenketh> I am working on cleaning up bug 525534. The reporter points to a blog post that states that someone is working on a issue with x.org upstream.  Would that be considered already reported(even though I have not found a duplicate bug report yet) or should I clean up the bug.
[00:23] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525534 in xorg (Ubuntu) "[karmic] gnome-power-manager warns about a bug in xserver (blanking problem) (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525534
[00:23] <Tiibiidii> ops
[00:24] <Tiibiidii> one of the numerous duplicates: 423694
[00:24] <Tiibiidii> #423694
[00:24] <Tiibiidii> keep in mind hovewer that, from what i've read:
[00:24] <Anzenketh> Thanks you found it faster then me
[00:25] <Tiibiidii> some patches have already been applied and shipped... but the blanking problem is still present
[00:25] <Tiibiidii> and so one old bug solved by those patches (and that prompt the same annoying notification) may be a different one to one still unsolved
[00:26] <Tiibiidii> and that the bug of the alarming notification itself could be considered a different bug from the one's that causing it
 Thanks you found it faster then me <-- i actually had it in my browser's history from 2 hours ago :P
[00:43] <Anzenketh> Still getting used to triage Bug 525545 and 449335 look like they are duplicates although they do not describe the exact same thing. I don't want to do something wrong I should mark as duplicate due to they are somewhat simular.
[00:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525545 in seahorse (Ubuntu) "Problem after changing session password (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525545
[00:43] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 449335 in seahorse (Ubuntu) "always ask password on startup (affects: 2)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449335
[00:44] <Anzenketh> Just trying to get a idea of how close something has to be to mark as duplicate.
[00:48] <kermiac_> hi Anzenketh, usually we don't assign ourselves to bugs that we are triaging unless we're going to make a patch or actively work on a fix
[00:48] <Anzenketh> Ok
[00:49] <kermiac> just letting you know :)
[00:49] <Anzenketh> Thanks I am new just came in today. How close does something have to be to another bug to be a duplicate
[00:50] <kermiac> np Anzenketh :)
[00:50] <kermiac> it has to be pretty much identical.
[00:51] <kermiac> if you look at bug 525545, you will notice the OP is using karmic & is asked for their password twice after changing their p/w
[00:51] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525545 in seahorse (Ubuntu) "Problem after changing session password (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525545
[00:52] <kermiac> whereas in bug 449335 the OP is using karmic & hasn't mentioned anything about changing their p/w or being asked for their p/w twice
[00:52] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 449335 in seahorse (Ubuntu) "always ask password on startup (affects: 2)" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449335
[00:53] <kermiac> if you've got any other questions, feel free to ask as their are usually a few people around in here that will be more than willing to help :)
[00:54] <Anzenketh> Ya I was thinking they are similar but not close enough to be the same.
[00:55] <kermiac> it's ok, once you've done a few you'll get the hang of it - and there's usually ppl in here who will answer any questions you might have :)
[00:56] <kermiac> anyway, I'm off to lunch BBL
[00:56] <LimCore> this clipboard fail bug seems to get lots of users really ANGRY recently. bug #11334
[00:56] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 11334 in ubuntu (and 2 other projects) "MASTER Copy-Paste doesn't work if the source is closed before the paste (affects: 74) (dups: 21)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/11334
[00:57] <LimCore> again.. what should one do to just have this parcellite in main, auto-installed with desktop and auto run on gnome start??
[00:58] <LimCore> becasue, now other people /then me/ say its an epic fail
[00:58] <LimCore> unless we are totally out of disc space (parcellite is tiny), I think we can just do it
[00:59] <kklimonda> It's such an old bug - I'm kinda attached to it
[01:00] <LimCore> you should be attached to it
[01:00] <LimCore> if you like when people say linux'es desktop is a joke and they are correct
[01:00] <kklimonda> my opinion has always been that if any project that tries to fix this problem have a screenshot section on their homepage than they are doing this wrong
[01:01] <LimCore> we can hide the icon later (but why) lets fix it now first shall we?
[01:02] <LimCore> it's one of ubuntus biggest fails imho,  like the broken sound/pulse, and hanging GFX/nvidia - but this one is SO TRIVIAL to fix, compared with really problems with kernels/drivers, or the flash problems... its like x1000 times easier =) I think we are talking about it much more then it would take to just fix it
[01:02] <kklimonda> is it really so trivial?
[01:04] <kklimonda> just because there are quite a few implementation of clipboard doesn't mean that they do it the right way. I'm not saying that it shouldn't be fixed - just that from what I can recall the problem was much more complex
[01:04] <LimCore> 1) install parcellite   2) add parcellite to auto-start for GNOME  3) BUG IF FIXED \o/ we are no longer 20 years behind other "real" OS ;) woooooooo  4) ????   5) PROFIT
[01:05] <kklimonda> you are not a developer, aren't you?
[01:05] <LimCore> I am
[01:05] <LimCore> you?
[01:06] <LimCore> if 10+ years C C++ php counts.  Why do you ask
[01:06] <kklimonda> so am I - and I remember at least few discussions about it when developers were rising some problems that programs like parcellite may introduce - but the last time I've been interested in it was years ago
[01:07] <LimCore> you probably mean that this solution is sort of work around and/or is "hackish"
[01:07] <kklimonda> no, not that
[01:07] <LimCore> then what?
[01:07] <LimCore> I tried, it works
[01:08] <LimCore> in either way it works better then by default. So just install this untill there is time for "better" solution
[01:08] <kklimonda> I have no idea - it was years ago. something about that those daemons may use a lot of memory in some cases
[01:08] <persia> They can use an arbitrary amount, depending on what is in the clipboard.
[01:08] <kklimonda> but anyway, this isn't the right channel or even a way of fixing this bug
[01:08] <LimCore> in the bug report, there is a work around by some ubuntu devel or something.  It constist of installing an tiny application + starting it at gnome startup.  all I say is: JUST STOP OVER TALKING IT ALREADY =)  and simply apply this work around by default!  how hard is it
[01:08] <persia> I don't remember the last mailing list discussion about it.
[01:09] <Anzenketh> If the bug is exactly the same except for the version of ubuntu (9.10 vs 9.04) I can mark ad duplicate right?
[01:09] <persia> But if parcellite is considered the best-of-breed solution, it may be worth filing an MIR and restarting the discussion.
[01:09] <kklimonda> Anzenketh: right
[01:09] <persia> But that would be for lucid+1, as lucid is past FeatureFreeze.
[01:09] <LimCore> jesus whats with you and the discussions
[01:09] <LimCore> you know what, if I would be ubuntu developer,
[01:09] <LimCore> this bugs would be fixed now. For months. Or years
[01:10] <crimsun> LimCore: what are you waiting for? Becoming a developer isn't difficult.
[01:10] <LimCore> it takes 15 minutes to fix it I bet. 30 if you need to print all the forms on paper, get them stamped and faxed forth and back
[01:10] <persia> The discussion is essential to avoid upload wars.  If there is not consensus, there's no assurance that another developer won't override one's changes.
[01:10] <LimCore> ok then, my point is: FIX THE BUG
[01:11] <LimCore> what are disadvantages?
[01:11] <persia> I don't know.  I'm just suggesting the way forward.
[01:11] <crimsun> sigh, what the heck is it with broken sound/pulse being an Ubuntu-specific thing?
[01:11]  * persia doesn't have permission to make a change log that
[01:11] <crimsun> I mean there's FUD, and then there's /FUD/
[01:12] <LimCore> I didnt seen anyone mention any real disadvantages. If someone would copy a huge load of images or 1000 page document, then yea we should expect some memory usage, thats normal (even if it would be 30 instead of 15 mb)
[01:12] <persia> crimsun: If only one man climbs a mountain, and he slips, he must be wearing lousy shoes.
[01:13] <LimCore> crimsun: I am not sure if this is ubuntu fault, but definatelly getting sound to work fully and realibly on ubuntus in a stable way, is often hard. Did not tried other linuxes too much there
[01:13] <crimsun> of course it's non-trivial -- I know that quite well.
[01:13] <LimCore> it should be trivial
[01:13] <crimsun> I just don't see anyone who's complaining bitterly also /stepping forward to help fix it/
[01:14] <LimCore> again with other OSes, I would like Ubuntu sound to be at least as good as on windows in 1999 or so
[01:14] <LimCore> but as I said, this bug (sound) probably is very hard to fix, weeks or months of work. Compared to half a day for clipboard things
[01:14] <crimsun> anyhow, I don't have time to "discuss" whether sound sucks in Ubuntu.
[01:15] <LimCore> crimsun: for people with new Ubuntus that I know (~7 new), for half of them the sound system is failing seriously - they can not play and/or record sound
[01:15] <crimsun> tell them to use Lucid, then.
[01:15] <LimCore> I do not know, is there a reason for such a broad bug reports?
[01:16] <LimCore> because unless there would be some team dedicated to making Ubuntu sound /really/ working,  its just waste of time with the reports if noone is acting on them
[01:16] <crimsun> LimCore: there /is/ a team
[01:16] <LimCore> is it as fast as with the clipboard problem?
[01:16] <crimsun> I haven't read backscroll, so I don't know the comparison.
[01:16] <micahg> LimCore: I explained the clipboard problem before...no one wants to listen
[01:17] <LimCore> micahg: I am listening. I tried (yours?) work around to install percellite, it works.  Why we keep talking unproductivly instead just applying that work around to everyone on Lucid and SRU to Karmic
[01:18] <micahg> LimCore: because not everyone wants that installed, Ubuntu is not like Mac and Windows in that there is no core OS, it's a compilation of packages
[01:18] <micahg> LimCore: also, space on the CD is limited
[01:18] <LimCore> then kick out some of artwork
[01:19] <LimCore> users just get frustrated
[01:19] <kklimonda> micahg: that's not the reason - we have a set of packages that are installed as the default desktop and parcellite takes like 300kb installed
[01:19] <persia> LimCore: Rather than complaining about this, why not work to implement it.  Like I said, if parcellite is known to be the right solution, the first step would be to review the MIR process to make sure the code is clean.
[01:19] <LimCore> we all know ubuntu is failing to provide functionallity known in other system for 10..20 years, the work around is trivial, and yet here we are still talking instead of doing
[01:19] <persia> LimCore: Then start a discussion about having it installed by default.
[01:20] <LimCore> I dont want to discuss, I want to get it fixed
[01:20] <persia> A discussion is a necessary part of that.  The discussion may be quick.
[01:20] <LimCore> if I would like to discuss unprodictivly while people that need my help are left behind I would join UN
[01:20] <persia> But complaining in this channel neither helps fix the bug nor helps triage other bugs.
[01:20] <LimCore> then where exactly to have that discussion?
[01:21] <persia> Well, first you need to get it into main (or at least have an approved MIR).
[01:21] <persia> At that point, ubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com is probably appropriate, but starting the discussion prematurely won't help fix the bug.
[01:21] <LimCore> this seems to just slow down fixing of the bugs
[01:22] <persia> Which part?
[01:22] <persia> Reviewing the code to make sure it's supportable and maintainable?
[01:22] <LimCore> the talking part, we already know the problem and the work around
[01:22] <persia> Or making sure that other developers won't undo the changes after making them?
[01:22] <LimCore> the code will be one-liner like   + precellite  to some auto-run in gnome skelleton
[01:22] <persia> Many of this class of discussion are 3-4 mails over a week or so.  It doesn't need a lot of discussion.
[01:23] <LimCore> what about the first part, about MIR and main?
[01:23] <persia> But *first* the package has to be gotten in good shape.
[01:23] <persia> That's just a matter of making sure the package is mostly bug free, doesn't have secuirty holes, etc.
[01:23] <LimCore> well, glipper is bs, it crashed/hangs.  But percellite works
[01:23] <persia> Make sure it already does the right autostart stuff, and so on.
[01:23] <persia> Right, but while you know this, not everyone might.
[01:23] <persia> So get parcellite into perfect shape, and file the MIR
[01:23] <persia> !mir
[01:24] <ubot4> mir is Main Inclusion Report - see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionProcess for more information.
[01:24] <persia> Bugs are fixed because people capable of fixing the bugs fix them.
[01:24] <persia> Bugs are not fixed by complaining that developers don't do anything: this just makes people less likely to volunteer to fix bugs.
[01:25] <persia> Similarly, if you want to help make sound better, join the audio team, and again, it's by *doing* stuff that you get it solved, not by complaining about the issues in the bug forum.
[01:26] <LimCore> btw how long it can take to become ubuntu developer
[01:26] <persia> The first step is intent.  WIth that step, one can br productive in days.
[01:27] <persia> It usually takes a cycle or so of being a developer prior to being granted upload permission.  Sometimes more.  Depends on activity, skill, time, etc.
[01:27] <LimCore> I thought being ubuntu developer is connected with somone approving rights to some ssh keys and stuff
[01:27] <persia> (it took me about two years from when I first started being a developer until I was granted upload rights, but some people do it in 4-5 months).
[01:27] <LimCore> there is a mode where one can upload changes to experimental or something, and then just /quickly/ ask for pushes of that into real repos?
[01:27] <persia> No.  Being an Ubuntu Developer is about deciding to be an Ubuntu Developer.
[01:27] <micahg> upload rights don't hinder controbutions
[01:28] <micahg> *contributions...
[01:28] <LimCore> so where are such contributions pushed?
[01:28] <LimCore> ppa?
[01:28] <persia> Generally we attach debdiffs or diff.gz files (depending on the change) to bugs.
[01:28] <persia> And we seek sponsorship
[01:28] <LimCore> that should takes minutes not days imho
[01:28] <LimCore> *take
[01:28] <persia> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing has a (somewhat outdated) description of how to start being a developer.
[01:29] <persia> !sponsorship
[01:29] <ubot4> Factoid 'sponsorship' not found
[01:29] <persia> Bother.
[01:29] <persia> !sponsor
[01:29] <ubot4> Factoid 'sponsor' not found
[01:29] <micahg> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess
[01:29] <persia> Anyway, one basically subscribes a team to a bug.
[01:29] <persia> Thanks micahg
[01:29] <LimCore> !sponsorship is http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Contributing
[01:29]  * micahg recalls someone calling me a bot :P
[01:29] <LimCore> !dance
[01:29] <ubot4> Factoid 'dance' not found
[01:29] <persia> Getting sponsored takes between hours and weeks, depending on the bug, the availability of sponsors, etc.
[01:30] <persia> A few days is usually about normal.
[01:30] <micahg> universe sponsors are more abundant than main sponsors ATM
[01:30] <lifeless> you'd hope so
[01:30] <persia> Well, more people can upload to those packages, so the pool of volunteers is bigger :)
[01:31] <lifeless> with a 10:1 ratio of packages
[01:31] <LimCore> so when I make patches that are accepted, I can be now some officiall debian developer?
[01:31] <persia> Debian is different.
[01:31] <persia> But yeah, spend a couple months working on patches with the development team, and the DMB will probably grant you official "Contributing Developer" status.
[01:32] <LimCore> I ment to write Ubuntu
[01:32] <persia> Beyond that it's just demonstrating involvement and capability to join a given development team, and that team might grant you upload rights to their packages.
[01:32] <persia> (so you become a Kubuntu Developer or Mythbuntu Developer or Ubuntu Desktop Developer, or MOTU, etc.)
[01:33] <LimCore> I think 4 weeks should be my goal
[01:33] <persia> Like I said before, most of the developer teams like to see work though at least a full development cycle before granting someone upload permissions.
[01:33] <LimCore> took 1 with FLTK to get rw access
[01:34] <LimCore> (4 weeks should make sense to contributing devel stat; not to rw)
[01:34] <persia> 4 weeks probably takes a lot of effort on your part, to make enough significant contributions that get support from other developers.
[01:34] <persia> But I'll wish you good luck with it.  It's not a bad goal, if aggressive.
[01:35] <LimCore> fast progress is good
[01:36] <LimCore> :)
[02:52] <Anzenketh> Bugs that have not been touched in a while do we close them or leave them open?
[02:53] <lifeless> neither
[02:53] <lifeless> if there is reason to think its fixed, as the user to confirm its still broken
[02:53] <lifeless> time is not itself a reason
[02:54] <Anzenketh> If there is not enough information do we set it to incomplete? Or just post comments.
[03:00] <Anzenketh> More or less what is the incomplete status for?
[03:03] <lifeless> incomplete means 'not enough data for a developer to work on'
[03:05] <Anzenketh> Oh ok so if I run across a bug report that needs more information comment and set it to incomplete?
[03:05] <lifeless> the process docs are all on the wiki
[03:06] <Anzenketh> Oh there it is duh. I just read that too.
[03:07] <Anzenketh> Sorry bit new still trying to get the hang of tings
[03:07] <lifeless> no worries
[03:07] <lifeless> questions are good
[03:17] <Anzenketh> 18528 bugs ouch wonder how many of them are fixed in the most up to date version.
[03:47] <vish> crimsun: seb wanted to leave Bug #524304 as a separate one for now.
[03:47] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 524304 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "High CPU usage with murrine progressbars (affects: 6)" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524304
[03:50] <crimsun> vish: ok. OTOH, it affects _every_ GTK engine
[03:51] <Anzenketh> On the triage documentation it state leave developer process bugs alone that means do not change anything on them right including the status?
[03:51] <crimsun> vish: I iterated through every single one shipped in Ubuntu to verify it
[03:51] <vish> crimsun: not here and for the few others who have that bug.. it happens only with murrine
[03:51] <crimsun> s/engine/style/
[03:51] <crimsun> it definitely happens here, and I've verified across two daily-live images
[03:51] <greg-g> Anzenketh: correct
[03:52] <Anzenketh> Ok made a mistake on that so changed it back.
[03:52] <crimsun> but whatever, I've a workaround
[03:52] <vish> and it is? ;)
[03:52] <crimsun> minimising to tray were applicable
[03:52] <crimsun> where *
[03:52] <vish> oh.. ;) that works too
[03:53] <vish> crimsun: as i mentioned on the bug, as soon as i switch to any other theme which does not use murrine engine.  the cpu drops instantly..
[03:53] <vish> crimsun: are you using nvidia?
[03:54] <vish> someone else had another bug which was specific to nvidia
[03:55] <crimsun> vish: on the current machine, no (GM45).
[03:55] <vish> ah nvm then :)
[03:56] <vish> crimsun: the best way to test that^ murrine bug is install the widget factory and notice the cpu is high with only murrine engines
[03:57] <vish> themes that use clearlooks/industrial/ or the fallback raeleigh dont have this problem
[03:59] <Anzenketh> If Developer process bugs are not to be touched how to we get them of the non treaged page?
[03:59] <Anzenketh> Or do we just not worry about it?
[04:01] <om26er> Anzenketh, example?
[04:02] <Anzenketh> bug 525075
[04:02] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525075 in maximus (Ubuntu) "Please merge maximus (0.4.14-1) from Debian Testing (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525075
[04:02] <Anzenketh> I set to complete due to it had a patch in it but then i figured it was a developer bug due to it was requesting a merge
[04:10] <persia> Anzenketh: How do you mean "set to complete"?
[04:10] <Anzenketh> I mean like set to triaged or Confirmed
[04:11] <persia> Oh, yeah, it's best to just ignore those bugs.
[04:11] <persia> There are efforts working on better ways to deal with them, but it will take some time.
[04:12] <persia> Setting to "confirmed" in this case wouldn't have mattered (and it would be the correct status, technically, according to the developer workflows), but we try to avoid doing anything that generates bugmail for that class of bug.
[04:12] <persia> Ideally, we'd have some other way to track candidates.
[04:13] <persia> The DistributedDevelopment team has done work to enable that for some workflows, but the tools are still maturing.
[04:13] <persia> With luck, this class of bugs will go away in another year or two.
[04:14] <crimsun> vish: it's reproducible here for all engines
[04:14] <crimsun> vish: I did that precise test on two daily-live images
[04:14] <crimsun> anyhoo, back to audio bugs
[04:14] <vish> crimsun: weird.. :s   for the ones who confirmed that bug it happens only with murrine
[04:15] <vish> yay audio :D
[04:15] <Anzenketh> Ya launchpad does not seam like the best tool for triage either.
[04:15] <persia> Well, if we could get rid of all the special case bugs, it would be better for that :)
[04:17] <Anzenketh> Ya it would also be nice to systematically go down the bugs to be treaged
[04:19] <persia> Well, I think there's only three special cases left: stable updates, syncs, sponsoring.
[04:19] <persia> Sponsoring is getting closer and closer to being ready.
[04:20] <Anzenketh> All three of those are developer process type bugs right?
[04:21] <persia> Yes.
[04:21] <persia> Well, syncs and sponsoring are.
[04:21] <persia> stable updates are a bit trickier, as they also involve users.
[04:21] <persia> But stable updates can probably be handled with improved nomination/distribution tracking support.
[04:23] <hp_> hello
[04:23] <hp_> i see there is opening for Linux QA at montreal office of canonical
[04:25] <Anzenketh> I am looking at bug 194101 that there is a post from launchpad Janitor It states that there was a fix released for the bug. Should I also set the bug to fix released?
[04:25] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 194101 in kubuntu-default-settings (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Ignore error of "update-alternatives --remove" in postrm" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194101
[04:34] <tweiseman> high i need help debugging my wifi card driver? any help available?
[04:36] <persia> tweiseman: Support is best found in #ubuntu
[04:36] <persia> If you know it's a bug, we can help make sure it gets the right attention.
[04:36] <tweiseman> okay i just saw you guys under a debugging page. ill check there
[04:37]  * Anzenketh wish there was a way or a process to put waiting for bug reporter to respond back
[04:40] <tweiseman> that could be helpful. i was talking to a local luug program near me and they said my driver is working fine but i just need to debug it
[04:55] <Anzenketh> Recommend Bug 194946 be set to wishlist
[04:55] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 194946 in partman-crypto (Ubuntu) "installer clobbered encrypted part. poor warning." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/194946
[04:56] <persia> Anzenketh: No, because of the potential for user data loss.
[04:56] <persia> (try again :) )
[04:56] <Anzenketh> Interesting I am part of the triage group but do not have access to set to triage.
[04:58] <persia> Anzenketh: There are various levels of access control.  Once you get more experience, you'll want to apply for Bug Control.
[04:58] <Anzenketh> Ahh it is the bug control group
[04:58] <Anzenketh> That makes sence.
[04:58] <persia> But this takes a while.  A very motivated individual with lots of experience might do it in 2-3 weeks, but it's usually a month or more (depending on activity level, etc.)
[04:59] <ddecator> persia, that's good to know...i might be closer than i thought then
[05:00] <Anzenketh> I am ok with waiting. I am glad I finally found something I can help out with.
[05:00] <persia> ddecator: Just check the requirements.  If you're certain you can give good answers to the questionaire, and expect enough people to be familiar with your work to review your application, you're in good shape.  If you're not there yet, at least you'll know how far you have.
[05:07] <ddecator> persia, hmmm, i can give good answers to the questionnaire, but i'm not sure how many people have been following me closely...
[05:08] <persia> ddecator: Well, let me ask that a different way.  Do you feel like you're part of the team, and most of the others here are peers, or do you still feel like you're learning how to do it?
[05:09] <persia> If the former, you've probably been watched enough, as we tend to watch new folk (especially as we respond to requests to adjust status and importance).
[05:09] <persia> If the latter, keep at it, and ask for status/importance review more, and you'll get there.
[05:10] <ddecator> persia, i feel like you are all peers. i don't feel like i can take just any random report and know exactly what to ask for, but i can work out most of them, and micahg is teaching me how to specialize in firefox reports
[05:13] <persia> ddecator: That's usually a good indicator.  Worst case is that if you apply and get deferred, you'll get feedback why, and know what to do in order to be approved
[05:14] <persia> We never reject anyone, we only defer or deny requests for increased permissions, and hope anyone who doesn't get more permissions today will apply again soon.
[05:14] <ddecator> persia, true...one thing i'm wondering, the wiki asks if the person provided the importance they would give a report...i never said it in the comments, but i worked out the importance on this channel...does it need to be documented that i worked out the importance?
[05:17] <persia> ddecator: You can just say "The importances for these bugs were all set on request by folk on #ubuntu-bugs" or similar.
[05:17] <persia> You need to pick bugs where you chose the importance.  If some still aren't set, then you can note it.
[05:18] <persia> If you got them all set already, that's good evidence of team integration :)
[05:18] <ddecator> persia, fair enough...so if i can find 5 reports that i think are good examples of my work, do you think i should apply and worst-case-scenario get helpful feedback?
[05:19] <persia> ddecator: I'm not going to tell you to apply : I believe it's something people should do when they think they are ready.
[05:20] <persia> In part this is because I believe that deciding one is ready is an important step to being ready :)
[05:23] <ddecator> persia, good point =). i feel confident so i'm going to look at my previous reports and see if i can find 5 goods examples. if i get it all setup, who do i send it to? i don't see the list on lists.ubuntu.com
[05:23] <persia> The answers you seek are in the wiki :)
[05:23] <ddecator> persia, that's what i'm looking at, but i wasn't reading "AT" as @, haha
[05:24] <ddecator> persia, thank you for all the help =)
[05:31] <Ryan52> bdmurray, jcastro: can I please get my bugcontrol membership renewed? it's about to expire...
[06:12] <ddecator> there we go =)
[07:31] <kamalmostafa> bugcontrol please:  set bug 525620 importance to Wishlist (I am the reporter)
[07:31] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525620 in launchpad-gm-scripts "control switch just for team names expansion, not LP_Karma_Suffix (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525620
[07:32] <vish> kamalmostafa: the bug has been reported in the upstream task , so only the concerned devs can change it
[07:33] <vish> bd_murray i guess..
[07:34] <kamalmostafa> vish: okay, no worries -- they'll figure it out.  thanks.
[07:34] <vish> np..
[07:48] <Speedy2> www.search2.net
[09:56] <persia> bdmurray: Why add the "patch" tag to bug #511502?  There aren't any patches there that haven't already been uploaded.
[09:56] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 511502 in xdvik-ja (Ubuntu) (and 16 other projects) "TeXLive 2009 transition: libkpathsea5 (affects: 2) (dups: 1)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511502
[09:57] <persia> bdmurray: If this is a script, might it make sense to try to tune to only hit active bugs, to avoid sending email for old stuff?
[10:28] <om26er> two days for the anniversery of #ubuntu-bugs topic ;)
[10:29] <persia> It's a topic that would be hard to improve.
[10:30] <persia> We used to add bits to it for Bug Days, but that gets annoying, and led to arguments about whether it was or was not Thursday and similar.
[10:32] <BUGabundo_remote> LOLOL
[10:32] <BUGabundo_remote> TimEZones suck :
[10:58] <merbit> hi, is there a project to file bugs against ubuntu archive mirrors? bug #525608
[10:58] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525608 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "Cyprus Ubuntu mirror does not have the correct directory structure (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525608
[11:12] <Damascene> what is the rescue mode package?
[11:20] <kklimonda> Damascene: if you mean the menu that is being displayed it is from friendly-recovery package
[11:21] <Damascene> some one in ubuntu+1 is saying the recovery mode isn't working
[11:21] <persia> Can you replicate?
[11:22] <Damascene> we are asking him
[11:24] <persia> I asked "Can *you* replicate", not can the person experiencing the issue replicate :)
[11:24] <persia> The point being that it's probably best to either guide them to file a bug, or for you to replicate and file the bug.
[11:24] <kklimonda> persia: as he didn't tell what the problem was it's hard to duplicate it :)
[11:24] <persia> Just asking about it in the absence of someone who is prepared to be the bug reporter is harder.
[11:25] <persia> kklimonda: Surely :)
[11:26] <Damascene> I understand now, sorry :)
[11:26] <Damascene> I'll try
[11:30] <Damascene> I saw the menu of recovery mode and dropped to root shell and rebooted, no problem there
[11:34] <persia> OK, then you want them to report the bug, if they can get the system back into the state that shows it.
[11:35] <Damascene> ok
[11:55] <Damascene> persia, here it is PascalFR
[11:55] <PascalFR> hello   toward what package can I report a bug for rescue mode beeing unusable ?
[11:58] <persia> kklimonda: You said it was "friendly-recovery", right?
[11:59] <PascalFR> persia: yes he told me that
[11:59] <kamusin> :)
[11:59] <persia> Well then, that's probably it :)
[12:00]  * persia doesn't know about this package, but keeps getting highlighted
[12:10] <PascalFR> well it is already reported as bug #489014 :)
[12:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 489014 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "Selecting "recovery" on reboot causes mixed console and menu activity (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489014
[12:17] <PascalFR> status now bug #489014
[12:17] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 489014 in friendly-recovery (Ubuntu) "Selecting "recovery" on reboot causes mixed console and menu activity (affects: 2)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/489014
[12:17] <PascalFR> ok
[12:18] <PascalFR> thanks Damascene persia kklimonda
[12:32] <amjaduae> hello
[12:57] <Damascene> amjaduae, Hi
[13:10] <alvin> I'm having trouble with a certain bug (aside from the bug itself). Something makes 'finding the root device' impossible, but what package is responsible for that? I filed against lvm2, because root is on lvm, but I'm not sure about that and debugging is hard when one can't boot. (Most of the time booting does not work, but when it works, nothing can be seen in the logs off course)
[13:10] <alvin> Oh I forgot. It's bug 460914
[13:11] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 460914 in lvm2 (Ubuntu) "karmic rc: root device sometimes not found (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/460914
[13:11] <amjaduae> hi Damaascence
[13:13] <alvin> The bug is extremely critical and severe. Don't pay attention to the 'affects 1'. I'm seeing this on 5 different servers. Probably my way of installing, but I don't know what I did wrong during install.
[13:13] <amjaduae> err Damascene
[13:17] <nigelb> hggdh: hey :)
[13:35] <Damascene> amjaduae, :)
[13:35] <amjaduae> whats up Damascene:)
[13:36] <Damascene> may I private message you? amjaduae
[13:36] <amjaduae> sure , but what it is that you can not say here
[13:36] <Damascene> a secret maybe :)
[13:36] <Damascene> offtopic
[13:37] <amjaduae> k
[13:57] <hggdh> hi nigel
[13:57] <hggdh> hi nigelb
[13:57] <nigelb> hggdh: any luck with the hook?
[13:57] <nigelb> or rather the filtering..
[14:00] <hggdh> nigelb: I had missed a small detail...
[14:00] <hggdh> http://etherpad.com/HocXEybBnk
[14:01] <hggdh> nigelb: instead of str(1) I should have written str.group(1)
[14:01] <nigelb> hggdh: that caused the entire issue?
[14:02] <hggdh> yes
[14:02] <nigelb> hggdh: what does the last part do?
[14:02] <nigelb> the debugging
[14:04] <nigelb> hggdh: lol, you forgot '\n' again
[14:05] <hggdh> oops.1 debugging?? oops.2 \n?
[14:06] <nigelb> lol "## DEBUGING ##"
[14:06] <nigelb> why did you use '\\n' instead of '\n'?
[14:06] <hggdh> oh, yestypo
[14:06] <hggdh> typo
[14:07] <nigelb> ah, I thought it was meant to be something and you forgot an option :p
[14:07] <hggdh> the ## debugging ## piece I am still writing -- a way to call the hook without needed to run rhythmbox
[14:08] <nigelb> um, we dont need to run rhythmbox anyway (unless using debug output)
[14:08] <hggdh> but I need to go back into apport, and see what is in the 'ui' parameter to add_info()
[14:08] <hggdh> yes. you could call 'python ./source_rhythmbox.py' instead
[14:08] <thekorn> line 26 is also looking wrong ;) should be `response2 is None`
[14:08] <hggdh> *this* one I am not guity of ;-)
[14:09] <hggdh> nigelb: ^
[14:09] <thekorn> haha
[14:09] <nigelb> ah, it should be response2 == None
[14:09] <nigelb> I added the none from the c hangover
[14:09] <nigelb> s/none/quotes
[14:10] <thekorn> compare to None in python by using "is" and not "=="
[14:11] <nigelb> oh, but how come == worked?
[14:11] <hggdh> None is a magical value
[14:12] <nigelb> hggdh: I added username field also to be masked
[14:12]  * nigelb kicks whoever wrote totem hook
[14:12] <nigelb> I copied from there
[14:13] <hggdh> heh
[14:13] <nigelb> thekorn: all '== None' to be changed to 'is None' ?
[14:13] <hggdh> nigelb: I do not know what gconf values should be asmked -- I used rhythmbox, but very lightly
[14:13] <hggdh> nigelb: yes
[14:13] <nigelb> lol
[14:13] <thekorn> yes
[14:14] <nigelb> I just searched for name, nigel, and password
[14:14] <hggdh> I did not even look at that
[14:14] <nigelb> and masked all those valaues
[14:14] <hggdh> good
[14:14] <nigelb> values rather
[14:14] <hggdh> so I understand 'nigel' is now masked?
[14:14] <nigelb> lol
[14:14] <nigelb> any field that displayed my name is now masked (you did that already)
[14:15] <nigelb> I just added username too to the masked fields
[14:15] <nigelb> checked the pad now
[14:15] <nigelb> I updated with my code
[14:17] <nigelb> hggdh: I still didn't understand the ##debugging## part
[14:18] <hggdh> nigelb: it is incomplete, I have to read the docs on add_info() -- I am missing one parameter
[14:18] <hggdh> nigelb: but the idea is to allow you to run it stand-alone, for tests
[14:18] <nigelb> oh, that needed not be uploaded?
[14:18] <nigelb> s/needed/need
[14:19] <hggdh> you would just run 'python ./source_rhythmbox.py' or '... rhythmbox.py -p `pidof rhythmbox`'
[14:19] <hggdh> no, it does not need to be uploaded now
[14:19] <nigelb> great :)
[14:20] <nigelb> since the masks work, can I start working on submitting a merge?
[14:20] <hggdh> yes
[14:20] <hggdh> of course
[14:20] <hggdh> note that I chaged the code again -- a sample on how to split long lines
[14:20] <hggdh> (see the etherpad)
[14:21] <nigelb> saw
[14:29] <nigelb> hggdh: take a look at the UI questions... user friendly enough?
[14:56] <ikt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/bash/+bug/356624 <- is this a bug or a feature o_O
[14:56] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 356624 in bash (Ubuntu) "`time` crashes in a script" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[14:59] <SwedeMike> CMD='time ls' ; $CMD works for me in 9.10 anyway
[14:59] <SwedeMike> lower case cmd as well
[15:04] <ikt> rly?
[15:04] <ikt> not for me
[15:05] <ikt> 0.00user 0.00system 0:00.00elapsed 0PU (0avgtext+0avgdata 0maxresident)k
[15:05] <ikt> 0inputs+0outputs (0major+308minor)pagefaults 0swaps
[15:05] <Pici> Thats not a crash.
[15:05] <ikt> is what i get
[15:06] <ikt> what is it Pici?
[15:06] <Pici> ikt: Its just using the default time output format, instead of the on that it regularly uses.
[15:07] <Pici> s/on/one/
[15:08] <ikt> how does one get the default time output format through time?
[15:08] <seb128> BUGabundo_remote, lucid doesn't have gtk 2.18,, not sure what you are testing there
[15:09] <ikt> 'time' by itself outputs the correct format similar to the first command
[15:10] <Pici> The manpage says that it should use the following format if none is specified:
[15:10] <Pici>          %Uuser %Ssystem %Eelapsed %PCPU (%Xtext+%Ddata %Mmax)k
[15:10] <Pici>          %Iinputs+%Ooutputs (%Fmajor+%Rminor)pagefaults %Wswaps
[15:13] <nfe_> Hello Guys!
[15:14] <nfe_> Can anyone helps me?
[15:14] <nfe_> /j ubuntu-desktop
[15:14] <greg-g> nfe_: support is in #ubuntu, this channel is for working on specific bugs
[15:15] <nfe_> greg-g: sorry, but anyone responde me
[15:15] <greg-g> nfe_: it is ok. But please use #ubuntu or the ubuntu forums for support.
[15:15] <nfe_> ok, thanks...
[15:16] <ikt> Pici: so what's going wrong
[15:19] <ikt> or are you unsure?
[15:23] <Pici> ikt: I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like it has to do with an environment variable, but its not $TIME even though the manpage says it should be.
[15:24] <Pici> If I run time from within dash, it gives me that extended output.
[15:25] <BUGabundo_remote> seb128: sorry, 1st pacage apt-cache found :(
[15:27] <ikt> Pici: I'm actually confused what to do with the issue now
[15:27] <greg-g> anyone care to confirm/deny this bug in OpenOffice.org Impress in Lucid? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/525807  :)  (I just reported it, and curious if I'm alone, no rush)
[15:27] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525807 in openoffice.org (Ubuntu) "Impress - Slideshow not full screen (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
[15:29] <greg-g> nevermind, jcastro got it for me :) But feel free to check "it affects me too"
[15:40] <ikt> good find
[16:03] <seb128> BUGabundo_remote, what version did you try with?
[16:05] <BUGabundo_remote> seb128: fully updated lucid and debian unstabel libs
[16:05] <BUGabundo_remote> what ever package name is
[16:05] <BUGabundo_remote> leet me know which is the proper name, and I'll double check it
[16:05] <seb128> BUGabundo_remote, gtk changes today, what version in lucid?
[16:05] <seb128> libgtk2.0-0
[16:05] <seb128> changed
[16:06] <seb128> ie it could be several versions I need to know which one in lucid you tried
[16:06] <BUGabundo_remote>   Installed: 2.19.5-1ubuntu3
[16:06] <BUGabundo_remote>   Candidate: 2.19.5-1ubuntu3
[16:06] <BUGabundo_remote> checkign for new updates, now
[16:06] <seb128> ok, that's not the current one
[16:06] <seb128> would be nice if you could update and retry gtkperf
[16:08] <BUGabundo_remote> doing so now
[16:09] <BUGabundo_remote> do I need to reboot?
[16:09] <BUGabundo_remote> cause I'm 30KMs away form the machine
[16:11] <nigelb> hggdh: of all the things to happen, I ran into build troubles
[16:11] <BUGabundo_remote>   Installed: 2.19.5-1ubuntu4
[16:12] <hggdh> nigelb: busy right now, will get to you in afew
[16:13] <nigelb> hggdh: k.
[16:13] <BUGabundo_remote> Total time: 73.63
[16:13] <BUGabundo_remote> seb128: updating the bug
[16:13] <seb128> BUGabundo_remote, what theme do you use?
[16:14] <BUGabundo_remote> done
[16:15] <BUGabundo_remote> seb128: is there a quick comand to check?
[16:15] <seb128> look in the appearance capplet?
[16:15] <BUGabundo_remote> appeareces says humanity dark
[16:15] <BUGabundo_remote> higly personlized
[16:16] <vish> BUGabundo_remote: humanity-dark is an icon theme
[16:16] <BUGabundo_remote> when I get home, I'll lunch a Guest Session
[16:16] <BUGabundo_remote> and check with lucid defauitls
[16:16] <seb128> BUGabundo_remote, ok, because your timings are weird, I've almost no difference between 2.19.5 without csd and with csd
[16:16] <BUGabundo_remote> seems based on new wave
[16:17] <vish> BUGabundo_remote: from what i recall , you use new wave with some tweaks
[16:17] <vish> hehe ;p
[16:17] <BUGabundo_remote> well, Clean session will tell us
[16:17] <BUGabundo_remote> I would try to remote login
[16:18] <BUGabundo_remote> but I'm not to confident in FreeNX + gnome screensaver lockout bug
[16:36] <bdmurray> persia: How could I determine that bug 511502 was inactive given that there are open tasks for it?
[16:36] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 511502 in xdvik-ja (Ubuntu) (and 16 other projects) "TeXLive 2009 transition: libkpathsea5 (affects: 2) (dups: 1)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/511502
[16:37] <persia> bdmurray: I'm unsure.  It may be that we should more strenuously discourage that class of bug from being opened.
[16:37] <persia> (as the information matches that on the NBS page, and we have branches)
[16:47] <duanedesign> 11
[16:49] <nigelb> hggdh: never mind, fixed the issue, and requested merge
[16:59] <nigelb> qense: I talked to pitti about making apport data private
[17:00] <nigelb> he said that right now, there is no feature to do that, but it wouldn't be appropriate for what you're trying to do too.  He suggested masking/filtering private values
[17:01] <hggdh> nigelb: OK, thank you.
[17:01] <hggdh> yes, masking is what you are doing right now, so this is good
[17:01] <nigelb> :)
[17:01] <qense> nigelb: OK, that's maybe the right thing to do indeed. Thank you for asking! Now I have to find a way to filter Facebook uids. :S
[17:01] <nigelb> qense: i made one for rhythmbox
[17:02] <nigelb> and you should try using regex in python.
[17:02] <nigelb> hggdh helped me mask the values from gconf for rhythmbox
[17:02] <qense> facebook uids consist of just numbers
[17:02] <qense> I'll have a look at what re can do here.
[17:03] <nigelb> :)
[17:07] <BUGabundo_remote> seb128: around?
[17:07] <seb128> BUGabundo_remote, yes
[17:07] <BUGabundo_remote> seb128: something fishy is happening after the libgtk update
[17:07] <seb128> ?
[17:07] <BUGabundo_remote> mouse acts like click and select/drag
[17:07] <seb128> I doubt that's due to gtk
[17:08] <BUGabundo_remote> I keep hovering ouver text and typing over texxt
[17:08] <BUGabundo_remote> 'cause mouse won't let got
[17:08] <BUGabundo_remote> *go
[17:08] <seb128> do you have a touchpad?
[17:08] <BUGabundo_remote> nope
[17:08] <seb128> ok so I don't know
[17:08] <BUGabundo_remote> well, yes, but I'm remoted connected
[17:08] <BUGabundo_remote> not using that session
[17:08] <seb128> I sometime get that on my laptop and unblock by moving and clicking on the touchpad
[17:09] <seb128> seems to be an xorg issue
[17:09] <BUGabundo_remote> funny enough
[17:09] <BUGabundo_remote> never saw it happening before this last 2h
[17:35] <om26er> can any one please suggest if this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libindicate/+bug/524308 is associated with the right package
[17:35] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 524308 in libindicate (Ubuntu) "indicator applet does not reflect any change for any application (affects: 3) (dups: 1)" [Medium,Triaged]
[17:36] <om26er> PS: this is not specifically a problem with indicator-sound also happens for other apps like rhythmbox, transmission
[17:44] <persia> om26er: I'd suggest that conor would be the best person to ask.  Based on the response and the "Most Active In" report on LP, he seems to be an upstream developer.
[17:46] <om26er> persia, should I subscribe him to the bug? as the bug was reported against indicator-sound and he is subscribed to indicator-sound and when It was changed to libindicate he dont know whats happening as he is not subscribed
[17:46] <persia> om26er: I'd just leave it alone.  There's a clear statement of intent to retest.
[17:47] <persia> If there's no update in a few more days, (say by Thursday), it might be appropriate to verify the subscription (remember that people can be subscribed through teams), and add a comment asking for the results of the testing.
[17:48] <persia> But when upsteam comes to help with a bug, it's best to be very gentle: that's extra nice of them, and we want to make sure they have a positive experience working with us.
[17:49] <om26er> persia, will do that, Thanks
[17:52] <om26er> connor responed. :)
[18:11] <om26er> I am starting on gwibber bugs and there are old bugs (many) reported against jaunty or karmic should I ask reporter to retest with development release of gwibber and mark them incomplete
[18:14] <charlie-tca> om26er: usually you try to reproduce them in development yourself, if possible.
[18:14] <persia> om26er: Depends on how critical they are.  For minor bugs, yeah.  For crashers, etc. it's worth investigating in jaunty or karmic for SRU.
[18:14] <persia> (plus what charlie-tca said)
[18:15] <charlie-tca> and there is this response if you need it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses#Old%20untouched%20bugs
[18:16] <om26er> and what about bugs like this its marked fixed upstream and Its kind of a bug that I dont understand so should I mark it fixed in ubuntu? https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gwibber/+bug/439325
[18:16] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 439325 in gwibber (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "MASTER gwibber lacks error/exception handling for dbus calls (crashes in call_blocking) (affects: 61) (dups: 14)" [High,New]
[18:17] <charlie-tca> you have to check the source package overview, and see what version is in lucid. If the fix is in lucid, then you can mark it fix-released or ask if the reporter can check it in lucid to make sure it is fixed.
[18:19] <charlie-tca> You see comment #5 and #6, looking for more information? It may not be fixed, so ask if they will supply the data. Then it can be closed in two weeks
[18:19] <om26er> thanks charlie-tca
[18:20] <charlie-tca> no problem
[18:20] <charlie-tca> good luck with those old bugs.
[18:28] <Zorael> I'm trying to submit a sound bug on my netbook running Kubuntu Lucid, with updated packages. ubuntu-bug audio tells me "the troubleshooter only works for the Ubuntu flavors that use PulseAudio", and Launchpad just redirects me to the wiki page on how to report bugs.
[18:28] <Zorael> What are my options? File it against alsa-base?
[18:30] <om26er> if a crash report dont have any new duplicates in 5months what treatment should it get?
[18:31] <hggdh> Zorael: I guess open against alsa, yes. Probably the folks at #kubuntu will know more
[18:31] <hggdh> om26er: the usual: is it repeatable? If so, how? Does upstream have a bug on it? etc
[18:32] <Zorael> hggdh: Right, thanks
[18:33] <crimsun> Zorael: don't use the symptom; use the specific package
[18:34] <crimsun> Zorael: ubuntu-bug alsa-base
[18:34] <crimsun> that said, patches welcome to make the symptom work with Ubuntu derivatives
[18:34] <crimsun> parent branch: bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-dev/apport/apport-symptoms/
[18:38] <Zorael> crimsun: Okay. I just read Martin Pitt's blog entry (http://www.piware.de/2010/02/ubuntu-bug-audio/) that recommended ubuntu-bug audio use, but perhaps non-flavor Ubuntu was implied and I missed it
[18:38] <crimsun> Zorael: yeah, the post didn't mention it was specific to Ubuntu flavours using PA
[18:38] <crimsun> again, that can be fixed via patches :-)
[19:03] <MTecknology> Bug 410407 has 220 comments. It's been getting bounced back and forth between packages. Now somebody tracked it down to another package and has a good reason for that change. So.. because of the chaotic mess, would there be any benefit to opening a bug against that one package so it's easier to follow?
[19:03] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 410407 in flashplugin-nonfree (Debian) (and 8 other projects) "Clicking on items in Flash player does nothing [READ DESCRIPTION] (affects: 643) (dups: 40)" [Unknown,Unknown] https://launchpad.net/bugs/410407
[19:07] <persia> MTecknology: Any pointers to the comment number that identifies the issue?
[19:07] <micahg> MTecknology: I think it's actually a gtk problem
[19:07] <micahg> bug 452938
[19:07] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 452938 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Left mouse button click in (java|flash) does not work. (affects: 18)" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452938
[19:08] <micahg> I was going to talk to asac before merging them, haven't gotten around to it yer
[19:08] <micahg> *yet
[19:08] <MTecknology> persia: the last ~20
[19:09] <MTecknology> nspluginwrapper; that's invalid, isn't it?
[19:09] <persia> micahg: Excelt comment #14 seems to imply that it can be fixed with an environment variable: what does that do?  Does it provide different hints to apps?
[19:09]  * persia wonders if it's a compiz thing
[19:09] <MTecknology> persia: it's not
[19:10] <micahg> persia: no, the env variable works around the gtk issue which might not be a GTK issue...
[19:10] <MTecknology> the new gtk+ caused a lot of issues in some apps..
[19:11] <MTecknology> that's a really ugly bug report though - but it happens in other distros - not debain/ubuntu specific
[19:11] <persia> It looks like the bug is in a spec somewhere.
[19:12] <persia> So that different software implements stuff in slightly different "correct" ways, and they don't happen to get along.
[19:12] <persia> Finding the minority case and fixing all the candidates is likely to be painful.
[19:12] <persia> I don't think there's any advantage to opening more bugs about it.
[19:12] <micahg> MTecknology: persia: it seems like a change was made in GTK 2.18 that affected several apps including flash and eclispe
[19:13] <MTecknology> I remeber it making claws-mail not show a list of email correctly
[19:14] <persia> micahg: Yes, but that might have been a fix to something else, and it might be that flash and java are incorrect.
[19:14] <micahg> persia: right, so someone has to look into it further
[19:15] <persia> It's rare to see this sort of many-workarounds solution with that class of packages affected when the spec is clear.
[19:15] <micahg> I'm happy to do it, just can't promise when
[19:15] <persia> But I thin kthat having 410407 as a capture point for reporters, especially because it blames non-free software that we can't modify is good.
[19:16] <persia> And we can investigate 425938 at leisure, and sort the issue.
[19:19] <MTecknology> I personally just install them myself
[19:19] <MTecknology> that blog I wrote about it helped me a lot
[19:19] <micahg> persia: it actually seems like the problem is nspluginwrapper, not flash
[19:20] <MTecknology> but that much makes me doubt it's flash or java itself
[19:20] <micahg> MTecknology: it's the implementation of GTK functions
[19:21] <micahg> now someone's trying to blame ia32-libs...this gets better
[19:21] <MTecknology> :P
[19:21] <MTecknology> they at least have a real reason for thinking that
[19:22] <micahg> only circumstantial evidence
[19:22] <micahg> which I guess makes sense
[19:23] <micahg> but i'm pretty sure it has to do with the implementation of GTK
[19:23] <MTecknology> probably
[19:23] <MTecknology> gosh darn all these random apps that don't magically work together perfectly out of the box :P
[19:34] <Anzenketh> After I have looked at a bug and have determined it needs more information do I immediately set it to incomplete?
[19:38] <charlie-tca> Anzenketh: you set it to incomplete and comment.
[19:39] <Anzenketh> Ok so every bug I touch should really have a status set when I am done with it correct?
[19:39] <charlie-tca> yes, that is correct
[19:39] <Anzenketh> Incomplete on waiting for info. Complete on the bugs that have passed the test. Cool that clears things up a lot
[19:43] <persia> Well, not quite.
[19:44] <persia> Some bugs might stump you, and then you call for help (here) and get someone else to help set to one of those.
[19:44] <persia> And some bugs are spam (yes, although not many), and so go straight to Invalid.
[20:01] <Anzenketh> I am just part of the bug squad the information is unclear on if I should be able to set status or not.
[20:02] <Anzenketh> Nevermind found the info
[20:03] <charlie-tca> Yes, set the status, but if you can not set it, give the request to set it here along with the bug number
[20:14] <Anzenketh> charlie-tca: I apologize I meant importance and I found I have to be higher rights to do that.
[20:15] <charlie-tca> Same thing. After you set status and determine what it should be, come here and give the importance you need set and the bug number
[20:15] <charlie-tca> One of the bug-control people will then set it
[20:34] <jcastro> bdmurray: I found a bug in the New state but 5 people had clicked "Affects me too". Shouldn't that do the right thing?
[20:35] <bdmurray> jcastro: hunh, that's an idea I hadn't heard of but makes some sense to me
[20:35] <jcastro> bdmurray: maybe not affects like 2, but after some threshold it should do something
[20:35] <jcastro> should I file a bug?
[20:35] <mrand> right thing = auto-confirm?
[20:36] <bdmurray> jcastro: of course!
[20:36] <jcastro> mrand: yeah
[20:36] <crimsun> there's an analogy there with marking something a dupe
[20:36] <crimsun> granted, this latter case is a bit more convoluted
[20:44] <jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/malone/+bug/526004
[20:44] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 526004 in malone ""Affects me" should confirm the bug. (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New]
[20:44] <jcastro> can someone confirm that? (don't just click affects me! heh)
[20:44] <nigel_nb> hggdh: seb commented on the hook
[20:45] <greg-g> jcastro: done
[20:45] <nigel_nb> hggdh: he's asked for a few changes.  See bug 525888
[20:45] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525888 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "Apport hook for rhythmbox (affects: 1)" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525888
[20:50] <mrand> Wow.  Launchpad project does an excellent job of triaging their bugs.  1666 open.  Only 3 new!
[20:52] <nigel_nb> mrand: yeah, they change status on any bug in a few hours
[20:53] <hggdh> nigel_nb: indeed, if there is an 'attach_gconf()' in apport, better to use it instead of calling gconftool-2
[20:53] <nigel_nb> hggdh: I've added my comments
[20:53] <nigel_nb> I need to check the new totem hook to see what they did for audio
[20:54] <nigel_nb> ugh! totem is not synced on bzr, so I have to wait till I get home to see the sourc
[20:58] <hggdh> :-)
[20:58] <hggdh> you can get it via packages.ubuntu.com
[20:58] <hggdh> brb -- reboot to recover my virtualisation
[21:09] <nigel_nb> hggdh: welcome back :)
[21:09] <hggdh> heh
[21:10] <hggdh> lost virtualisation support here, still trying to find out where it went
[21:10] <nigel_nb> lol
[21:11] <nigel_nb> I dont think I can see totem code without being on ubuntu
[21:11] <hggdh> if your windows has utilities for dealing with gzip and tar, I do not see why
[21:12] <nigel_nb> how do I apply the diff to the gzip though?
[21:13] <nigel_nb> hggdh: ah, the new totem is very small and very cool
[21:13] <nigel_nb> hggdh: if the issue is audio, it just calls "os.execlp('apport-bug', 'apport-bug', 'audio')"
[21:13] <nigel_nb> and the audio hook will deal with it
[21:14] <nigel_nb> and if its codec, report.add_package_info("libgstreamer0.10-0")
[21:14] <nigel_nb> hggdh: only question now is, should or should we not add the debug information
[21:15] <persia> jcastro: Could you reference the bug you found in the odd state in bug #526004?  The LP history may be sufficient to reconstruct (although it's trivial to replicate in staging)
[21:15] <ubot4> persia: Bug 526004 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/526004 is private
[21:15] <persia> No it isn't, you're just timing out.
[21:16] <nigel_nb> persia: talking to the bot?
[21:16] <persia> nigel_nb: Yeah :)
[21:16] <hggdh> nigel_nb: it is probably best to wait and collect debug only if upstream requests it
[21:16] <nigel_nb> ah, seb's here
[21:16] <jcastro> persia: sure
[21:16] <persia> nigel_nb: So I lost track of you some time back when you wanted me to look at a bug and I was having network issues.  Did you find someone to walk you through it, or do you still want to?
[21:17] <nigel_nb> persia: the error during build time?
[21:17] <nigel_nb> persia: I forgot to do a bzr add ;)
[21:17] <persia> Was it that?  (bzr commit), I thought it was something else.  Maybe 30 hours ago?
[21:18] <nigel_nb> a day ago?
[21:18]  * nigel_nb has too look at logs
[21:18] <nigel_nb> seb128: so  you think the debug output is not required for the hook?
[21:18] <persia> Or two, depending on your opinion of the current time :)
[21:18] <nigel_nb> seb128: I seemed to think we asked that for a lot of rhythmbox bugs, thats why I added it
[21:19] <seb128> nigel_nb, I think we don't really know what we are doing often so ask for a debug log
[21:19] <nigel_nb> seb128: oh ;)
[21:19] <seb128> I'm not sure how much private datas those can have though
[21:20] <seb128> like account names for services, passwords
[21:20] <nigel_nb> I was going through the old bugs last week and saw plenty of debugs requested
[21:20] <seb128> right, as said it seems somewhat a standard reply
[21:21] <seb128> you could try asking on #rhythmbox irc.gnome.org what infos are usually useful
[21:21] <nigel_nb> hm, I'll have to do that when I get home.  I'm at work right now
[21:22] <nigel_nb> i'll update the audio issues though.  I didn't of using the lucid totem hook
[21:22] <nigel_nb> persia: ah, it was a rhythmbox bug where I was trying to make sense of the debug output
[21:23] <nigel_nb> persia: we'll have to do that some time later when I'm on an ubuntu machine
[21:23] <persia> OK.  I'm often about :)
[21:23] <nigel_nb> persia: correction.  You're rarely not about
[21:24] <persia> Maybe :)
[21:25] <nigel_nb> later folks, a few more hours of work to endure
[21:28] <ddecator> micahg, you around?
[21:28] <micahg> ddecator: yeah
[21:29] <ddecator> micahg, bug 516154, the reporter says todays FF 3.6 update resolved the issue. did your team do anything in regards to that bug?
[21:29] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 516154 in firefox (Ubuntu) (and 1 other project) "Firefox becomes inoperable when cookies set to "ask me every time" (affects: 4)" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/516154
[21:30] <micahg> that should actually be a dupe
[21:31] <micahg> ddecator: bug 514108
[21:31] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 514108 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Cookie Accept Dialog Not Shown on Firefox 3.6 (affects: 6)" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/514108
[21:32] <ddecator> micahg, thanks, i'll mark it
[21:32] <micahg> thanks ddecator
[21:52] <micahg> ddecator: I meant update the LP bug, the upstream bug is different
[21:53] <ddecator> micahg, yes, i just wanted to point out that the LP bug that was originally posted on there has been resolved and found to be an Ubuntu bug, so it may not be directly related
[21:53] <micahg> ddecator: it wasn't related to begin with...just simlar symptoms
[21:53] <ddecator> micahg, right, that's what i was trying to point out, i guess i just didn't make that very clear?
[21:54] <BUGabundo> seb128: I've updated the GTK bug with fresh results
[21:54] <BUGabundo> ~8 sec
[21:54] <BUGabundo> I just hope you guys don't close it as Fixed, while other themes still have higher value
[21:55] <seb128> BUGabundo, ok, it's not fixed in any case but thanks
[21:55] <seb128> BUGabundo, you get that difference by change theme?
[21:55] <micahg> ddecator: fixed
[21:55] <BUGabundo> dunno
[21:55] <ddecator> micahg, thanks
[21:55] <BUGabundo> seb128: that was a clean Guest Session
[21:55] <seb128> ok
[21:55] <BUGabundo> maybe there's more then just my theme
[21:56] <BUGabundo> let me try it gain
[21:56] <micahg> ddecator: it looks similar, it's hard to know if it's a match or not, our problem was because we left something out of the packaging.
[21:57] <BUGabundo> seb128: on my session, with some apps running: Total time: 24.08
[21:57] <BUGabundo> so triple the time
[21:57] <ddecator> micahg, right, but since the update fixed the original ubuntu bug put on there, i didn't want the mozilla devs to look at that lp report and try to apply it their report if it was unrelated
[21:57] <micahg> ddecator: well, I would have just posted that the LP bug is unrelated and due to an Ubuntu problem and be done with it
[21:58] <micahg> the could care less if we dupe our bugs if they're unreleated
[21:58] <ddecator> micahg, fair enough, i'll remember that for in the future
[21:59] <micahg> ddecator: since LP already added the bug link, better to ping me to fix it upstream
[21:59] <micahg> s/fix/remove/
[21:59] <ddecator> micahg, will do
[22:00] <micahg> ddecator: thanks
[22:10] <bdmurray> hggdh: hello?
[22:10] <hggdh> hi bdmurray
[22:10] <bdmurray> Have you seen this bug control app from Luca Invernizzi?
[22:10] <hggdh> I think I missed it, do not remember seeing it
[22:11] <hggdh> the name is not strange, though
[22:11] <bdmurray> The body of work presented are bugs about the project GTG, not any Ubuntu bugs ....
[22:11] <hggdh> Is he upstream?
[22:11] <bdmurray> yes
[22:12] <hggdh> would he not fall into the "welcome upstream" thingie?
[22:12] <bdmurray> well he applied the normal way
[22:12] <hggdh> oh, OK.
[22:12] <bdmurray> anyway the principles are the same
[22:13] <bdmurray> right?
[22:13] <hggdh> I *now* remember it -- came in a few days ago, and I was wondering how to deal with it, and wanted to talk with you
[22:13] <hggdh> if he is upstream, and GTG is based on LP, does he need -control?
[22:13] <bdmurray> no but gtg is packaged so I can see it helping
[22:14] <bdmurray> and they said "I want to start to help also outside of GTG, that's all."
[22:14] <bdmurray> I don't want to stop that at all! ;-)
[22:14] <hggdh> and we had a ML exchange some time ago about upstreamers -- I *think*we ended up with having some active maintainer ack them would help
[22:14] <hggdh> neither do I...
[22:15] <bdmurray> okay, I'll review the work provided then
[22:15] <hggdh> want me to look for, and contact him?
[22:15] <bdmurray> I have all the tabs open already it looks pretty straight-forward to me
[22:16] <hggdh> k
[22:39] <kyubutsu> bug 437402 should be reviewed; first, f-spot will not run when [new wave] theme is active [gnome]. second, the original poster's information differs from what Umang and myself describe and certainly different than what i get as far as error log
[22:39] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 437402 in f-spot (Ubuntu) "F-Spot crashes (affects: 5) (dups: 3)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/437402
[22:41] <kyubutsu> the hilarity of it is that i install this theme as soon as i set up my system so i couldnt possibly think it was a problem caused by an official ubuntu theme
[22:43] <kyubutsu> i find that extremely awkward anyway
[22:44] <Zorael> If I have an audio bug that I can *work around* by disabling powersaving (Intel HDA), should I still file it as a bug? (It's not regarding the standard pop when the device wakes up from powersaving.)
[22:44] <kyubutsu> why would f-spot be made so dependant on a theme to function
[22:46] <hggdh> kyubutsu: it might also be that there is something in the theme that hits f-spot bad
[22:46] <hggdh> Zorael: yes, you should still report it, and note the workaround
[22:50] <hggdh> kyubutsu: if the OP description differs from yours, it sounds like you do not have the same bug as the OP. So it would be better to open a new one
[22:52] <kyubutsu> Umang reported a bug am more inclined to side with and it was still considered a dupe of 437402
[22:53] <kyubutsu> so i dont feel all too comfortable opening a new one
[22:53] <hggdh> let me have a look
[22:58] <hggdh> kyubutsu: one thing is that the OP and you/umang are running different versions of f-spot (and Ubuntu, and themes)
[22:58] <hggdh> so this *could* still be related
[22:59] <kyubutsu> well.. i'll just keep an eye on it/them and finish gathering some more data for posting
[22:59] <hggdh> kyubutsu: hold on, I am not yet done ;-)
[23:00] <hggdh> there are two possibilities I see -- either this is a new wave theme issue (and a ubuntulooks), or this is a f-spot one. Of course, might be both
[23:01] <hggdh> but, given it is different versions of Ubuntu, f-spot, and themes, I would rather not dup them
[23:01] <hggdh> BTW, you can undup them yourself, if you do not agree with it
[23:02] <kyubutsu> i have only seen this happen with f-spot so blaming the theme is a bit of a stretch when all other programs behave correctly .. ; that being said, am not much of a regulator so i leave that confusion to someone else
[23:02] <hggdh> kyubutsu: already undupped
[23:03] <kyubutsu> 10-4
[23:03] <hggdh> kyubutsu: it not being a regulator, just trying to *not* mix different issues in one single bug. All that glued them together was "different themes"
[23:07] <kyubutsu> well.. like they say in -offtopic, sanity is optional, but common sense is compulsory...
[23:07] <hggdh> heh
[23:10] <malev> hi there! can anyone change the importance of this bug to whislist? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/525231
[23:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525231 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "can't set any kind of background for the tree-panel or any other panel on the left side (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[23:11] <BUGabundo> anyone got their hands on failed to playback DVDs on karmic?
[23:12] <BUGabundo> *bugs
[23:22] <malev> Hi  there! can anyone change the importance of this bug to whislist? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/525231
[23:22] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 525231 in nautilus (Ubuntu) "can't set any kind of background for the tree-panel or any other panel on the left side (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[23:22] <Laibsch> BUGabundo: tell me more about that force option you mentioned earlier.  What command?
[23:23] <BUGabundo> aptitude purge --force PACKAGE ?
[23:24] <Laibsch> the man page says nothing about a force option
[23:24] <Laibsch> but the dpkg man page has something about --force-foo
[23:27] <BUGabundo> ok
[23:27] <BUGabundo> that would work too
[23:27] <BUGabundo> its lower level
[23:28] <Laibsch> but even "sudo dpkg --force-all -r xulrunner-1.9" won't do it
[23:29] <Laibsch> unfortunately, it doesn't work
[23:29] <Laibsch> package still clinging on ;-)
[23:29] <BUGabundo> nuke it out of the apt db LOL