[00:05] <neversfelde> apachelogger: did you have the time to review kfritz?
[00:09] <neversfelde> ScottK: I know you are very busy these days, but if you have some time, it would be great, if you could give some feedback here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChristianMangold/MOTUDeveloperApplication. I think you reviewed some KDE packages that I did in the last few month.
[00:39] <Sput> ScottK / neversfelde: yes, we didn't break protocol, and I've implemented a mechanism to figure out which of the new optional features the core supports to disable them in the client
[00:39] <neversfelde> Sput: great
[00:39] <Sput> so e.g. you won't get any UI for configuring SASL if you're using an older core
[00:39] <neversfelde> wow
[00:39] <Sput> only downside: the core will log warnings
[00:40] <neversfelde> and not wow, because I need a newer core, to use new features :D
[00:40] <Sput> (because the client requests attributes from syncable objects that are not there)
[00:40] <Sput> maybe I'll find a way to suppress those, not sure
[00:41] <Sput> neversfelde: could be worse :)
[00:41] <neversfelde> Sput: yes :), I will test it locally
[00:42] <Sput> neversfelde: I think it's actually just SASL that requires a newer core
[00:42] <Sput> and CTCP ignore, but that has been backported to 0.5.2
[00:42] <neversfelde> Sput: so no need to backport 0.6 till it is final?
[00:42] <Sput> neversfelde: don't think it's very critical
[00:42] <neversfelde>  k
[00:46] <Sput> anyway, good night :)
[00:50] <neversfelde> b8 Sput
[00:59] <neversfelde> s/b8/n8
[03:33] <nixternal> with KOffice, I am including KFormula, as it kind of works, especially from within kword or such
[05:45] <nixternal> oh, would there happen to be an archive tweaker around? ScottK?
[05:45] <nixternal> I am assuming Riddell is fast asleep
[06:10] <nixternal> Riddell: I pushed up koffice changes to bzr, apachelogger I used debcommit just for you, however, I have not dput it yet as 'create-resources' package is hosed in the archives. seems it was demoted from main to universe, in which a soyuz bug seems to have eaten it. so Riddell if you can fix that, let me know, then I will go ahead, test build it with pbuilder, run a test install and update here, make sure stuff works as it should, and th
[07:07] <valorie> markey from Amarok suggested I ask here
[07:07] <valorie> while working on setting up my git-build of Amarok, I ran into this error, and don't know what to do about it:
[07:07] <valorie> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/libqt4-dbg_4%3a4.6.1-1ubuntu2~karmic1~ppa2_amd64.deb: trying to overwrite '/usr/lib/debug/usr/bin/qvfb', which is also in package qt-x11-free-dbg 3
[07:08] <valorie> should I ignore it?
[07:08] <valorie> or will it come back to bite me
[07:09] <valorie> someone suggests: try to 'force' qt-x11-free-dbg ppa version, or just remove it completely
[07:13] <jussi01> valorie: yeah, just force it imho. packaging error. but double check that with someone :)
[07:13] <valorie> do you happen to know which ppa that might be in?
[07:13] <valorie> I have a couple installed -- kubunta-beta
[07:13] <valorie> for starters
[07:14] <valorie> I guess google is my buddy
[07:15] <jussi01> valorie: or just hang out for a bit, its still early :D
[07:15] <jussi01> or late...
[07:15] <valorie> ok
[07:18] <valorie> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kde4-backports/+bug/523779 has the same error I reported
[07:18] <valorie> haha
[07:19] <valorie> sounds like I need to uninstall -dbg packages
[07:42]  * apachelogger hugs nixternal for using debcommig
[07:42]  * apachelogger pings neversfelde about kdebluetooth
[07:42]  * apachelogger pokes kubotu for breakfast
[07:43] <Riddell> mm, breakfast
[07:43] <apachelogger> kubotu: order breakfast
[07:43]  * kubotu slides a cigarette, a cup of hot coffee and a bagel with cream cheese down the bar to apachelogger.
[07:43] <apachelogger> hm
[07:43] <Riddell> this is a non smoking chatroom
[07:43] <apachelogger> someone should tell kubotu ^^
[07:44] <apachelogger> weeeh
[07:44] <apachelogger> kdebluetooth depends bluetooth
[07:44] <Riddell> shouldn't it?
[07:44] <apachelogger> nope
[07:44] <apachelogger> Riddell: see thread on ubuntu-devel
[07:45] <apachelogger> pitti disagreed about suggesting bluez-gstreamer and indeed wanted to manually list the non-gst packages in the seed
[07:45] <apachelogger> of course that doesnt help now because kdebluetooth still depends on the bogus metapackage
[07:49] <apachelogger> neversfelde: I just uploaded a new revision of kdebluetooth, pleaes make sure to merge it into your upgrade
[07:50] <apachelogger> Riddell: ^ once that is built the CD should be gst free
[07:50] <apachelogger> unless I missed another dep on bluetooth :
[07:50] <apachelogger> S
[07:57] <Riddell> neversfelde: I can give access to server if needed yes
[08:00] <nixternal> forget breakfast, I still need to go to bed sometime soon, way to busy of a day lined of up for...was going to say tomorrow, but today
[08:01] <nixternal> Riddell: you see the noise about create-resources being broken right now? that is the only thing hampering me from dput'ing koffice
[08:01] <nixternal> there is only 1 list-missing in koffice \o/ and that is kivio, which is weird that there is a rogue desktop file just laying around for it :)
[08:01] <nixternal> seeing as kivio isn't in the 2.1 branch of koffice
[08:03] <Riddell> morning nixternal
[08:05] <nixternal> good morning to you as well good sir
[08:05] <Riddell> hum, where oh where has create-resources gone?
[08:06] <Riddell> maybe a new upload would help
[08:07] <persia> It got et by Soyuz when being demoted.
[08:07] <Riddell> that sounds like a beastie in soyuz
[08:13] <Riddell> persia: all this talk of getting rid of MOTU seems strange to me, e.g kubuntu-dev only covers our packages in main (and not even all of those) so there's still plenty reason for kubuntu packagers to become MOTU to help with KDE packages in universe
[08:13] <Riddell> nixternal: create-resources uploaded, let's see what happens
[08:15] <persia> Riddell: It was decided to get rid of MOTU at UDS Jaunty.  That we are able to have any MOTU is due in large part to ScottK's extended effort.  "main" and "universe" will be going away.  If you think there should be some set of packages that are maintained that aren't in your image, it's worth talking to the TB about creating a packageset for them.
[08:15] <persia> Because under the new definition of MOTU, that's not the purpose of MOTU.
[08:48] <apachelogger> neversfelde: there you better hurry up with becoming MOTO :P
[09:16] <apachelogger> persia: what I am wondering... what is going to happen to packages that are not within the scope of any package set?
[09:17] <persia> apachelogger: Those belong to MOTU, with the assumption that nobody has a particular interest in them, and they should be bugfixed, removed,aligned with Debian, etc. as appropriate.
[09:17] <persia> If some team has a particular interest, they shouldn't belong to MOTU.
[09:17] <apachelogger> hm
[09:18] <apachelogger> that is flawed
[09:19] <apachelogger> there are kde packages in universe that can easily be maintained by kubuntu-dev-starters
[09:19] <persia> apachelogger: How so?
[09:19] <persia> Then make a list and ask the TB to grant kubuntu-dev-starters permission to upload them.
[09:19] <apachelogger> yet I would not give those starters the same privledges to upload core KDE packages
[09:19] <Riddell> it sounds the same as currently, except with some expectation that MOTU should suddenly exclude people with a paticular interest (such as KDE)
[09:19] <persia> That's fine.  No need to do that.
[09:19] <apachelogger> persia: so, another set?
[09:19] <persia> apachelogger: Precisely.  Yes.
[09:19]  * apachelogger still finds that a drag
[09:20] <Riddell> sounds like we're creating more beurocracy instead of less
[09:20] <apachelogger> also seems like that to me
[09:20] <persia> Riddell: Not that MOTU should exclude anyone, but that we ought carve up the archive into a bunch of overlapping sets of stuff that people are interested in.  Any given individual might also be interested in MOTU stuff.
[09:20] <persia> The idea is reducing the barrier to entry by not requiring someone to have broad general experience to get any upload access at all.
[09:23] <Riddell> it's going to increate the barrier of entry to someone who currently joins MOTU to help with KDE but is then able to expend as experience allows them without formal barriers
[09:25] <persia> Yes, it will.
[09:25] <persia> But at this point, we've already gone so far down that road that it's hard to know if we can back up.
[09:26] <Riddell> if we create a kubuntu-dev-starters team and include everything that say depends on qt in it, will that stop people in the general MOTU team from uploading those?
[09:26] <persia> Like I said, MOTU almost went away in the past few weeks.
[09:26] <persia> In the short-term, no, but that's considered a bug in launchpad.
[09:27] <Riddell> I suppose we could make motu a member of kubuntu-dev-starters
[09:28]  * apachelogger notes that a fancier name might be better ;)
[09:28] <apachelogger> humhum
[09:28] <apachelogger> icon-theme.cache - 124MiB Oo
[09:28] <Riddell> kubuntu-dev-mini-ninjas ?
[09:28] <persia> Please don't make MOTU a member of kubuntu-dev-starters.
[09:28] <persia> That breaks the model under which MOTU was permitted to remain a team.
[09:28] <Riddell> persia: why not?
[09:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: something like that ...
[09:29] <persia> Because I'm not convinced that MOTU will be permitted to continue if it doesn't have a "positive" role statemnt, which is currently a broad QA role for packages not in packagesets.
[09:29] <persia> If MOTU starts getting invited to teams, those who want to abolish MOTU and make everyone only core-dev or per-package-uploaders gain stronger arguments for their position.
[09:32] <persia> If you want to get a bunch more members, instead send an email to ubuntu-devel@ requesting people join, and have a lightweight process for people who are already UbuntuDevelopers.
[09:33] <Riddell> persia: what teams are currently defined with a packageset that isn't a seed?
[09:33] <persia> None.
[09:33] <persia> But LP supports them.
[09:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: does KDE use the cache created by update-icon-cache?
[09:33] <Riddell> so infact MOTU is exactly the same except for xubuntu which I think is the only seed to have packages not in main?
[09:33] <persia> and ubuntustudio
[09:33] <persia> and mythbuntu
[09:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: no, it uses the cache created by kpc in .kde/cache-<computer>/kpc/kde-icon-cache.*
[09:34] <apachelogger> oha
[09:34] <apachelogger> oha!!!!!
[09:34]  * apachelogger does some testing
[09:34] <persia> But there's a bug in soyuz right now that it can't handle defining exception cases, so MOTU has odd access right now, to some seeded stuff and some unseeded stuff, but not all unseeded stuff and not all seeded stuff.
[09:35] <persia> (although this is planned to be fixed)
[09:35] <apachelogger> we should just use obs :P
[09:36] <Riddell> persia: who do I ask about how to create a package set for kubuntu-dev-mini-ninjas ?
[09:37] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers/TeamDelegation
[09:41] <apachelogger> Riddell: so,there is /usr/share/icons/oxygen/icon-theme.cache uncompressed151 MiB, with lzma -9 ~16 MiB (though I am not sure the CD is really compressed with lzma -9)
[09:41] <apachelogger> the file is only of use to gnome it seems, hence we could save 16 MiB of completely wasted disk space
[09:42] <apachelogger> Riddell: so the question is, can we hook into the CD building process so that it removes said file before it creates the squashfs?
[09:42] <Riddell> apachelogger: I expect we could
[09:42] <Riddell> let's ask slangasek
[10:37] <Riddell> Lex79: I got qt 4.6.2 compiled
[10:46] <apachelogger> hm, javascript is almost fun :D
[11:14] <jussi01> do we really still have the doctor on the brain?
[11:14] <Riddell> we should do for the whole cycle at least
[11:15] <jussi01> :D
[11:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: we need to revisit the l10n topic I think
[11:22]  * apachelogger seems to remember that uds discussion was mentioning a situtation evaluation in january or something
[11:22] <Riddell> I'm told the upstream/kubuntu comparison tool is written
[11:23] <Riddell> we need to poke dpm do find out what needs done to get some results out of it
[11:23]  * apachelogger still has general process reservation though :P
[11:24] <apachelogger> pkg-kde-tools still holds copies of upstream tools for pot extraction
[11:36] <Riddell> apachelogger, persia: e-mail for tech board http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/sNpyjgja
[11:37] <Riddell> dpm: ping
[11:37] <dpm> hey Riddell
[11:38] <apachelogger> Riddell: looks good
[11:38] <Riddell> dpm: do you know what needs to happen to get the upstream/kubuntu l10n comparison tool running?
[11:39] <persia> Riddell: packagesets are usually explictly defined.  You might want to do some checking first.
[11:39] <persia> Also, I know that a number of the ubuntustudio tools use Qt, so there's likely to be some overlap there.
[11:40] <persia> (not that overlap is bad: it isn't: it's good, but so that you're aware)
[11:40] <dpm> Riddell, yes, I could run it last week. "Simply" download the Launchpad code (the script reuses code from there) and change the hardcoded path to danilo's lp branch in the script
[11:42] <Riddell> dpm: sounds like hassle.  can you run it and put the results somewhere?
[11:42] <Riddell> persia: checking of what?
[11:42] <Mamarok> in which files is this header: X11/extensions/shape.h
[11:43] <Mamarok> it is needed for tooltips apparently, any idea?
[11:43] <Riddell> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=X11/extensions/shape.h&mode=exactfilename&suite=karmic&arch=any
[11:43] <Riddell> x11proto-xext-dev
[11:43] <persia> Riddell: For which packages you actually want to have this team claim responsibility more precisely.
[11:44] <dpm> Riddell, yes, I was intending to do that. I wanted to do it for all languages, but as we are interested mostly in errors, they should apply to all languages, so I'll just run it for a language and produce some results. I can paste some quick results now just to show what the output looks like, but I won't have time for a proper report today
[11:45] <Riddell> dpm: that'll do nicely
[11:45] <dpm> ok, give me a few minutes...
[11:47] <Mamarok> Riddell: thanks
[11:47] <Mamarok> I am just wondering, why is libmail-sendmail-perl a build dependency for Amarok?
[11:48] <Riddell> I don't think it is
[11:49] <Mamarok> well, that's what is dragged in with apt-get build-deb amarok
[11:49] <Mamarok> valorie: could you paste your output again?
[11:49] <apachelogger> probably a recommends of devscripts or something
[11:49] <Mamarok> 80 percent of those files are not needed for Amarok IMHO
[11:50] <valorie> http://amarok.pastebin.ca/1806668
[11:51] <apachelogger> po-debconf pulls in that perl package
[11:51] <Riddell> "Sorry, an error has occurred. Reason: That is an invalid ID, or the post has expired."
[11:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: did you get the right url?
[11:51] <apachelogger> Mamarok: so what else is part of those 80 percent?
[11:52] <Mamarok> apachelogger: well, I am just surprised there are x11proto stuff that is not in the README
[11:53] <apachelogger> Mamarok: cmake did do recursive linking
[11:53] <apachelogger> though I have heared it doesnt do for KDE 4.4 anymore
[11:53] <apachelogger> Riddell: we probably should revisit that topic too
[11:53] <Mamarok> hm, so this is a cmake problem?
[11:54] <apachelogger> Mamarok: not entirely
[11:54] <apachelogger> IIRC also a lot of KDE stuff uses more important X libs directly
[11:54] <apachelogger> so for convenience reasons some of this libs might be deps of kdelibs5-dev
[11:54] <Mamarok> and nobody else has seen that before since we all already have that stuff
[11:55] <apachelogger> though I think its more because of the recursive linking of cmake, because that made everything fail ;)
[11:55] <Mamarok> but kdelibs5-dev *is* installed
[11:55] <Mamarok> shouldn't that have dragged in those?
[11:55] <apachelogger> Mamarok: maybe they come in via gtk
[11:55] <apachelogger> which is dragged in by libgpod
[11:55] <apachelogger> along with cairo
[11:55] <apachelogger> which could also be the cause of the X libs
[11:55] <Mamarok> but libgpod is optional, Amarok should build without
[11:56] <Mamarok> so where is that dependency that brings in x11proto-text-dev
[11:56] <Mamarok> I just try to update the README so nothing is missing
[11:57] <Riddell> libgtk2.0-dev needs it
[11:57] <Riddell> it depends on libxext-dev
[11:57] <apachelogger> Mamarok: libgpod is not optional to build deb
[11:58] <apachelogger> the debian build process does not know optional build deps, either you build against something or you do not, and our amarok package builds against libgpod, so build deb will pull it in as well
[11:59] <Mamarok> apachelogger: the problem is, my blog instructions worked until now, this is the first time somebody follows those steps exactly and runs into that x11proto dependency
[11:59] <Mamarok> so where the h*** is there something missing in the README file?
[12:00] <Mamarok> and amarok should bild without libgpod, so why is that x11proto-texyt-dev file not in if all steps are followed
[12:00] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I have to learn how to write an application with MS Word today :(, so I cannot have a look at kbluetooth before tonight, I'll merge it.
[12:00] <Mamarok> build*
[12:00] <dpm> Riddell, ok, just to give a sample of the output I run it on the Spanish Karmic language pack (the Karmic ones were the ones I had at hand, the tool should equally work with Lucid, which are in fact what we are interested in). So, full output: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/382204/ Only error messages: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/382203/ Only critical error messages: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/382202/
[12:00] <Mamarok> neversfelde: write an application with MS Word? you mean a macro?
[12:01] <dpm> Riddell, I'll try to produce something useful for Lucid tomorrow
[12:01] <neversfelde> Mamarok: no, I learn how to open and save documents
[12:01] <apachelogger> Mamarok: you can create full featured applications with VBA
[12:01] <apachelogger> neversfelde: for that you could just create a macro, and look at its code indeed
[12:01] <apachelogger> IIRC a macro is just regular VBA code with loads of junk
[12:01] <apachelogger> like when you let visual studio create something ;)
[12:02] <apachelogger> scope in javascript is a beast
[12:02] <Mamarok> apachelogger: could you answer my question above?
[12:03] <apachelogger> Mamarok: apt is no reference point for upstream
[12:03] <Riddell> src/tooltips/KToolTip.cpp needs X11/extensions/shape.h
[12:03] <Mamarok> apachelogger: I know, but what is missing in kde-devel and build-essential that is a new dependency
[12:04] <Riddell> so amarok will need x11proto-xext-dev whether built with gtk or no
[12:04] <Mamarok> apparently our README is missing stuff
[12:04] <Mamarok> and that x11proto doesn't have the smae name in all distros...
[12:04] <Mamarok> same*
[12:05] <apachelogger> x11proto is not the name anyway
[12:05] <apachelogger> it just marks that this package is a x11 prototype lib
[12:05] <Mamarok> yes, it is xorg-x11-protosomething
[12:05] <apachelogger> the something is the important part
[12:05] <Mamarok> so which is the exact name?
[12:05] <valorie> that list looked like all of 'em
[12:05] <apachelogger> Mamarok: xext
[12:05] <apachelogger> Mamarok: or you could look what upstream calls it
[12:06] <Mamarok> valorie: I know, I just need to update our README
[12:06] <Mamarok> apachelogger: and where do I find that?
[12:07] <Riddell> http://xorg.freedesktop.org/releases/individual/proto/ ?
[12:07] <Riddell> xextproto-7.1.1.tar.gz
[12:08] <Mamarok> Riddell: great! Thank you very much :)
[12:09] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think the plasma update script is finished now, it iterates over all widgets on the first panel, looking for the stuff to move, then it gets the max value of applets in systray, invoking a moving, this first ensures that the applet is not already in the tray, then adds the widget, traverses all config settings and finally removes the widget from the panel
[12:09] <apachelogger> that should take care of everything (hopefully) :/
[12:09] <apachelogger> I'd still prefer to not have the scritp
[12:09] <apachelogger> *script
[12:14] <Riddell> apachelogger: where is this?
[12:14] <apachelogger> Riddell: preparing push
[12:14]  * apachelogger messed up his branch somehow *shurg*
[12:15] <Riddell> aseigo commented this morning..
[12:15] <Riddell> 10:22 < aseigo> panelIds[0] <-- will fail for people who have multiple panels
[12:15] <Riddell> 10:23 -!- adrianS [~adrian@nat/suse/x-tzlznwecvvqojhyi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[12:15] <Riddell> 10:23 < aseigo> hm.. and why is it grabbing the system tray twice?
[12:15] <Riddell> 10:24 < aseigo> instead of setting systemTrayFound i'd just pass that widget into a js function that does the config changes
[12:15] <Riddell> 10:24 < aseigo> as it is right now those two loops are dupliated code; not a big deal peformance-wise, but just waiting for bugs
[12:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: that is what I do ;)
[12:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: pushed r355
[12:19] <apachelogger> Riddell: why will panelIds[0] fail for multiple panels?
[12:21] <Riddell> apachelogger: I think he means that it'll only work on the first and not on the second or third panel
[12:21] <apachelogger> oh, of no concern to us then ^^
[12:23] <Sput> because you know that the user only needs and wants one? :
[12:23] <Sput> :)
[12:24] <Tm_T> I have only, err, 2 panels now
[12:25] <Riddell> if you have two panels you probably don't want us fiddling with them
[12:26] <Tm_T> true that
[12:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, I would almost be tempted to wrap everything outside a function into a main() and call that
[12:31] <apachelogger> otherwise scope issues can easily occur since everything outside a function is global to the this object
[12:31] <apachelogger> which is a PITA for counting variables (thus the ranaming of some of them in case you wonder)
[12:32] <apachelogger> s/ranaming/renaming
[12:35]  * JontheEchidna grumbles that nobody's moderated his mail to devel-permissions he sent a week ago
[12:38] <apachelogger> the what mail?
[12:38] <JontheEchidna> my core-dev app
[12:39] <apachelogger> ah
[12:39]  * apachelogger loves to crash amarok :D
[12:39] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I thought you already sent that?
[12:39] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I suppose poking someone on IRC should help though
[12:39] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: yes, to devel-permissions, but nobody moderated it
[12:40] <JontheEchidna> nixternal: would you know who to poke for^?
[12:41] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: cjwatson
[12:41] <apachelogger> at least mailman lists him as only moderator
[12:42] <JontheEchidna> I'd ping him right now, but I'm leaving in a bit for school
[12:44] <JontheEchidna> Think we can get ktorrent back on the seed for alpha3?
[12:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: mail approved
[12:44]  * apachelogger does not think ktorrent should be seeded TBH
[12:44] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: you pinged him? thanks
[12:44] <apachelogger> yep
[13:34] <Riddell> shtylman: ubiquity today looks good except at the install stage nothing is shown
[13:40] <Riddell> shtylman: also shutdown doesn't work
[13:44] <shtylman> Riddell: what do you mean nothing is shown?
[13:44] <ScottK> Riddell: We just make the process for kubuntu-starters (or whatever - I don't like that name either) "If you are a MOTU and ask, we'll add you."
[13:44] <shtylman> like the slideshow is broken?
[13:45] <Riddell> shtylman: nothing at all!
[13:45] <shtylman> ...
[13:45] <shtylman> not even a progress bar?
[13:45] <Riddell> shtylman: no UI at all until the "time to reboot" dialogue pops up
[13:45] <Riddell> nope
[13:45] <shtylman> wtf
[13:45] <Riddell> ScottK: I agree
[13:45] <shtylman> does /var/log/installer/debug say anything weird?
[13:46] <ScottK> Would it be considered weird if it didn't say anything weird?
[13:49] <shtylman> haha
[13:49] <shtylman> possibly :)
[13:50] <Riddell> bug 526454
[13:54] <shtylman> Riddell: noted...I will take a look after work today
[13:54] <Riddell> shtylman: also bug 526456
[13:55] <shtylman> k
[13:55] <Riddell> thanks shtylman
[13:55] <Riddell> shtylman: grey bar at bottom of screen is gone, that's looking much better :)
[13:55] <shtylman> :) ... yea.. I finally realized what it was
[13:55] <shtylman> it was the status bar of the window
[13:55] <shtylman> I just had to remove it
[13:57] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: stop flooding my inbox :P
[13:57] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: huh?
[13:58] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: hehe... you closed and triaged tons of bugs yesterday... and im subscribed to kubuntu bugs ML :D
[14:05] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ubuntu dev tools has the tools for packaging right?
[14:05] <shadeslayer> like dch etc?
[14:05] <Riddell> shtylman: hah
[14:09] <Riddell> shadeslayer: devscripts
[14:09] <persia> Anyone have any objections to only building kubuntu-netbook for armel, rather than both kubuntu-desktop and kubuntu-netbook?  This would parallel a change in ubuntu-*.
[14:10] <Riddell> persia: fine with me
[14:10] <persia> Thanks.
[14:10] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ah.. what are the tools for?
[14:11] <Riddell> for packaging?
[14:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ubuntu-dev-tools is ubuntu centric, whereas devscript is for general debian packaging (and some debian centric stuff)
[14:12] <apachelogger> dpkg -L ubuntu-dev-tools | grep usr/bin | less
[14:12] <shadeslayer> hmm
[14:13] <ScottK> persia: Originally that was supposed to be what happened on armel.  Not sure why netbook was added instead of substituted.
[14:14] <persia> ScottK: I think it was just a coordination confusion.
[14:14] <persia> Same thing happened for ubuntu-*
[14:14] <ScottK> Sounds likely .
[14:18] <shadeslayer> what package would i find : JOSCHYCORE_LIBRARIES JOSCHYCORE_INCLUDE_DIR)
[14:18] <apachelogger> Riddell: I updated the kubuntu l10n stuff in pkg-kde-tools
[14:19] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: apt-cache search joschycore
[14:19] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: nothing :(
[14:19] <shadeslayer> !find joschycore
[14:19] <apachelogger> then there probably is no package
[14:20] <shadeslayer> hmm then how did my ppa build the package 0_0
[14:20] <apachelogger> oh well
[14:20] <apachelogger> source import on gitorious was only done on feb 16
[14:20] <apachelogger> no wonder there is no pkg :D
[14:21]  * persia points out `apt-file search joschy` as more comprehensive
[14:21] <apachelogger> we do not have apt-file by default
[14:21] <shadeslayer> persia: nothing there too )D
[14:21] <shadeslayer> :)
[14:21] <shadeslayer> http://gitorious.org/joschy/joschy
[14:21] <shadeslayer> there we go :P
[14:22] <Riddell> apachelogger: thanks, was there much diff?
[14:22] <apachelogger> Riddell: only in findfiles, which apparently was not merged since you imported it back in july 2008
[14:23] <Riddell> apachelogger: I reported bug 526472, not sure if we already had one for that
[14:24] <apachelogger> Riddell: patch in bzr
[14:24] <apachelogger> only supports changes to the url though
[14:24]  * shadeslayer loves it when cmake prints out that pink,blue and green lines :D
[14:24] <apachelogger> I asked fredrik to create configChanged() upstream
[14:24] <apachelogger> to which he agreed, so I hope we can drop that patch at least with SC 4.5
[14:27] <Riddell> apachelogger: any reason not to upload now?
[14:27] <apachelogger> Riddell: nope
[14:28] <apachelogger> I was just waiting if I'd stumble across more stuff to fix in kdebase, but since we are in freeze, I suppose it can go up anyway :)
[14:28] <Riddell> I'll upload then thanks
[14:44] <Riddell> shtylman: bug 526486 just FYI, probably something to be fixed in casper rather than ubiquity, although I am curious to know what's changed
[15:08] <Riddell> shtylman: also bug 526496
[15:12] <shadeslayer> Riddell: can i make my own PPA depend on itself for libs?
[15:13] <Riddell> shadeslayer: PPAs always depend on themselves
[15:13] <shadeslayer> oh..
[15:13] <shadeslayer> thats new :P
[15:26] <shadeslayer> what package would Q_WS_X11 correspond to>
[15:31] <Riddell> that's a defined value in Qt code which is set to true when it's compiled on X11 platforms. it's not a package
[15:32] <Riddell> persia: what's the difference between Contributing Developers and MOTU?
[15:33] <persia> Riddell: Contributing Developers can work on any packages anywhere (not related to universe) and have no upload rights.
[15:33] <persia> I think you're well covered with "Kubuntu Members" if you want a parallel
[15:34] <persia> The distinction mostly lies in that the CC wanted to have the MC membership team be indirect.
[15:34] <Riddell> right, it's the membership category rather than the upload rights
[15:35] <persia> Right.
[15:35] <persia> But members who are also Contributing Developers need to have involvement in Development.
[15:35] <persia> Like members who are also Kubuntu Members need to have involvement in Kubuntu.
[15:35] <Riddell> yep
[15:35] <Riddell> thanks
[15:40] <Riddell> dpm: that looks like some interesting output there
[15:40] <Riddell> dpm: let me know when you have it set up for lucid
[15:41] <dpm> Riddell, yeah, not today, but I'll get to it tomorrow
[15:41] <Riddell> lovely
[15:50] <ScottK> dpm: Do you think you could have a look at the balance of the quassel imports?  The one that failed is the only one with duplicate msgid.
[15:53] <dpm> ScottK, sure, I'll try to make a "Kubuntu day" tomorrow and look at the langpack reports and this. I noticed the duplicate msgid's, and I think I can just fix the file locally, manually import it to LP and send it upstream. I was also talking with the kde-i18n and quassel guys on how to best gettextize quassel the other day, but this might take some time
[15:59] <shtylman_> Riddell: how is that UI different than what is there now?
[15:59] <shtylman_> or is that just meant to show what is there now?
[16:00] <shtylman_> Riddell: personally, I don't like the button at all... I don't think it belongs in the installer
[16:00] <shtylman_> Riddell: the installer should be smarter and detect if it can update itself... the user shouldn't have to worry about such a thing
[16:02] <Riddell> shtylman_: that is ment to show what's there now
[16:04] <shadeslayer> btw if a package checks for KDE availability,i should make it depend on kdebase or the whole kubuntu-desktop metapackage?
[16:04] <Riddell> kdelibs5-dev
[16:06] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ah thanks :)
[16:07] <shadeslayer> Riddell: for qt i guess its libqt4-dev
[16:07] <Riddell> yes
[16:07] <jussi01> great... installing printers is borked in lucid
[16:08] <shadeslayer> Riddell: what would : BUILD_QNETWORKLAYER : mean?
[16:08] <shadeslayer> like what package for that ?
[16:09] <Riddell> I've no idea
[16:09] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: that sounds like a build option really
[16:09] <shadeslayer> hmmm maybe its just adding a new dir
[16:09] <apachelogger> i.e. build true or false
[16:09] <apachelogger> kubotu: np
[16:09] <kubotu> apachelogger is listening to "Omen" by The Prodigy [http://open.spotify.com/track/35Ki084dIfWYN1emPAylDt] -- see http://www.last.fm/user/apachelogger for more
[16:09] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah.. thats what im trying to figure out
[16:09] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: are you free on 27 feb 1700 UTC?
[16:10] <Riddell> shtylman_: bug 526534 is new and rather puzzling breakage on netbook
[16:10] <shadeslayer> i was talking to dholbach and i suggested we have a small PPA session
[16:10] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Packaging/Training
[16:11] <shtylman_> Riddell: that is strange indeed...
[16:11] <apachelogger> Riddell: how do you want to reslove bug 526488
[16:11] <shtylman_> only on the netbook version?
[16:12] <Riddell> apachelogger: if height < 700 don't load twitter I think
[16:12] <apachelogger> hm
[16:12] <Riddell> shtylman_: yes
[16:12] <apachelogger> easy enough to do
[16:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: are you on it already?
[16:12] <Riddell> apachelogger: not yet
[16:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: ok, I'll get started on it
[16:12] <Riddell> shtylman_: ubiquity normally runs as root right?
[16:12]  * apachelogger finds javascripting quite cool :)
[16:13] <Riddell> apachelogger: yo da man!
[16:13] <apachelogger> ^^
[16:13] <shtylman_> Riddell: yea, but the kde libs don't like that so at the start it isn't root to create the kapplication
[16:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: how about if < 1024x768?
[16:13] <shtylman_> and then is root again
[16:13] <Riddell> apachelogger: seems good
[16:14] <apachelogger> ok
[16:14] <shadeslayer> oh and one more thing,these joschy libs dont have a version.. what do i do?
[16:14] <shadeslayer> :P
[16:15] <shadeslayer> http://pastebin.ca/1806970 <<
[16:15] <apachelogger> 0.0.0.1~git20100223 for example
[16:15] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: hehe.. thats loads of 0's
[16:15] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: okies
[16:16] <apachelogger> I think persia recommended it, since some tools dont like 0.0~git, and most projects only have 3 version numbers, so 0.0.0.1 is a pretty save bet but still should work everywhere
[16:16] <shadeslayer> ok thats looks good :)
[16:18] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: what are the basic files i need? compat,changelog,control.. and?
[16:18] <Riddell> copyright!
[16:18] <shadeslayer> Riddell: yeah that too
[16:18] <shadeslayer> :P
[16:18] <Riddell> most important one that, else it'll never get approved
[16:19] <Riddell> rules is also useful
[16:19] <shadeslayer> Riddell: just need : http://pastebin.ca/1806984
[16:19] <shadeslayer> right?
[16:20] <shtylman_> shadeslayer: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Complete
[16:20] <shadeslayer> hmm
[16:21] <shadeslayer> shtylman_: the dh_make will work with a non @kubuntu address right?
[16:21] <shtylman_> should
[16:21] <shtylman_> I use my gmail addy all the time
[16:21] <shadeslayer> :)
[16:22] <shadeslayer> shtylman_: multiple binary is for 32 and 64 bits?
[16:22] <shadeslayer> oh wait this is a library
[16:27] <Riddell> please test Qt 4.6.2 https://edge.launchpad.net/~jr/+archive/ppa
[16:28] <Riddell> shadeslayer: if it's a KDE package you'll need the kde include
[16:28] <apachelogger> \o/
[16:28] <apachelogger> seariously plasma scripting is awesme
[16:28]  * apachelogger just spent couple of minutes just looking at it adding and removing stuff from his desktop ^^
[16:30] <shtylman_> Riddell: what goodies can we expect with 4.6.2?
[16:31] <shtylman_> also... is it possible to install just one thing from your ppa? or do we have to update all things?
[16:31] <Riddell> shtylman_: everything else is old versions for lucid so only qt should install
[16:31] <Riddell> shtylman_: lots of bugfixes hopefully
[16:32] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-default-settings/ubuntu/revision/357
[16:32] <shtylman_> Riddell: cool, noted... will try it out tonight
[16:33] <Riddell> apachelogger: lovely
[16:33] <apachelogger> Riddell: anything else to do, otherwise I'll upload that stuff
[16:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: we're frozen, shouldn't upload unless it's needed for alpha 3
[16:34] <seele> was there a kubuntu meeting i missed? i dont remember the recent membership (unless it was a while ago)
[16:34] <apachelogger> Riddell: that twitter stuff was annoying for far too long ;)
[16:35] <Riddell> seele: there was a kubuntu-dev meeting, to approve ncommander, not being a packager you wouldn't be invited (which doesn't mean we didn't miss you)
[16:35] <apachelogger> seele: we only do kubuntu-dev meetings for kubuntu-dev applications
[16:35] <seele> aaah, ok i didnt realise it was a dev meeting. should have read the email in it's entirety. twice.
[16:36] <seele> Riddell: i didnt realise you can update the installer? why would you do that? most of the time people will be installing from Live CD and wouldnt an update just eat memory?
[16:36] <shadeslayer> Riddell: which kde include?
[16:37] <shadeslayer> (had a phone call)
[16:37] <Riddell> seele: it's new.  I guess it's so that bugs can be fixed in ubiquity after release
[16:37] <apachelogger> *nod*
[16:37] <seele> Riddell: if updates to the installer are imperative, then it should do a check if there is a network connection and use them automatically
[16:37] <Riddell> shadeslayer: /usr/share/pkg-kde-tools/makefiles/1/cdbs/kde.mk
[16:37] <apachelogger> so your pc does not explode when there is a bug in the partitioner
[16:37] <seele> there is no reason to ask the user if they want to use an updated installer
[16:37] <apachelogger> seele: what about traffic limitations?
[16:37] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ah yes its actually a library needed to build bangarang
[16:38] <apachelogger> seele: or 56k modem users
[16:38] <seele> apachelogger: why would updates to an installer be so huge?
[16:38] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: i think there should be a option with a warning...
[16:38] <apachelogger> seele: because of how debian packaging work sand how ubuntu was not able to introduce sensible deta updates up until now :(
[16:38] <seele> if potential problems in teh installer are such that we think we need to push updates to a live cd installation, then maybe we should fix the installer
[16:39]  * apachelogger notes that this would mean rewriting it in a sensible language :P
[16:39] <seele> hmm.. maybe i dont understand the problem. let's try this: what screwed up in a way that made us realise we need network updates?
[16:39] <apachelogger> like ecmascript ^^
[16:39] <Riddell> 16:00 < shtylman_> Riddell: the installer should be smarter and detect if it can update itself... the user shouldn't have to worry about such a thing
[16:39] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: like 1)Use latest Installer ( /i This may take time depending on your Internet connection)
[16:39] <Riddell> seele: looks like shtylman_ agrees with you
[16:40] <seele> it's really an unnecessary decision
[16:40]  * apachelogger also agrees FTR
[16:40] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: 2) I dont have a Internet connection,continue with this version
[16:40] <Riddell> probably need to ask evand why the button was added
[16:40] <seele> why would deb packaging break on a closed system that was tested? it shoudl break after installation on the first update
[16:40] <apachelogger> you can not automate it without making some users unhappy
[16:40] <seele> in that case, it could be fixed there
[16:40] <shtylman_> Riddell seele: I agree... I think the thinking was that if we release an installer (lets say for an LTS) and later it is realized that something in it is broken and we have a fix
[16:40] <seele> apachelogger: it's open source. if people care about what we'er doing to their computers they can look at the code (in theory)
[16:40] <shtylman_> there is a way to get the user to install that
[16:40] <shadeslayer> well im not in support.. i have a 128 kbps connection and i know how painful it is to upgrade :P
[16:41] <shtylman_> but personally...I think the installer should tell the user
[16:41] <seele> we're installing shit on their harddrive and potentially destroying their data arent we?
[16:41] <shtylman_> and not require action on the user's part
[16:41] <seele> if we think making an update to the installer will provide the best installation to them, i dont see why we cant make that decision
[16:41] <shadeslayer> seele: kubuntu!=shit ;P
[16:41] <apachelogger> seele: it's not about the non-feedback manner of doing things, it is about how we could cause users problems by exceeding their download limit
[16:41] <apachelogger> or by taking ages to download due to 56k
[16:41] <seele> if it takes too long to download or the connection is bork, abort the process and use the available install
[16:42] <shadeslayer> seele: so why download in the first place
[16:42] <apachelogger> seele: in that case we might have wasted traffic resources for nothing
[16:42] <seele> apachelogger: i still dont understand.. what are they downloading? if it is a live cd they dont have anywhere to put it yet
[16:42] <apachelogger> seele: no, updates to the installer
[16:42] <shtylman_> seele: it goes into ram
[16:42] <seele> apachelogger: right.. so how big is that? a few MB at most? people are worrieda bout that?
[16:42] <shtylman_> seele: and then they need to restart the installer
[16:43] <apachelogger> seele: what if they are like close to the limit?
[16:43] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: idea : ping ubuntu servers,if lag is greater is more than LIMIT,dont download updates else download latest updates
[16:43] <Riddell> 16:43 < ev> Riddell: can you expand on that?  It gives us a way to get a newer version of the installer to users on released CDs, in case things go horribly wrong at release.
[16:43] <seele> apachelogger: i'd say they are screwed regardless
[16:43] <Riddell> 16:43 < ev> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubiquity-auto-upgrade
[16:43] <apachelogger> seele: I am quite sure they will see that differently
[16:44] <seele> then why are we pushing an update at all?
[16:44] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: ping respond time is no indication to anything
[16:44] <shtylman_> the feature is important
[16:44] <shtylman_> im just saying that the button isn't the best way to go
[16:45] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: um it shows how fast their connection is
[16:45] <shtylman_> but it was the quickest solution
[16:45] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: no, it shows how fast the server responds
[16:45] <seele> ok, i need to think about this later. have to go to a meeting
[16:45] <apachelogger> no more than that
[16:45] <shadeslayer> hmm
[16:45] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: if you want to know how fast a connection is you must seend a continues data stream large enough to use all the bandwith for some time
[16:45] <shtylman_> Riddell: personally... for lucid... I think the best we can hope for is maybe moving that button
[16:46] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: hmm
[16:46] <shtylman_> beyond that I don't foresee things changing
[16:47] <apachelogger> shtylman_: does the button download a whole package or just an updated file?
[16:49] <shtylman_> apachelogger: I would venture to say the whole package... but I really don't know
[16:49] <shtylman_> never done it
[16:49] <shadeslayer> Riddell: btw did you see my last comment?
[16:49] <Riddell> shadeslayer: what was that?
[16:49] <shadeslayer> 22:07 < shadeslayer> Riddell: ah yes its actually a library needed to build bangarang
[16:50] <Riddell> shadeslayer: ok, is there a question for me?
[16:50] <apachelogger> shtylman_: that would be ludicrious TBH, takes away about any sensibe advantage python ever had :S
[16:50] <apachelogger> then again I find the fact that we have to download whole packages for updates in 2010 rather awful in itself
[16:50] <shadeslayer> Riddell: yeah actually,so i showed you the rules file,and you said i needed to put that in for a kde package and i wanted to know if libraries qualify
[16:51] <shtylman_> apachelogger: don't quote me on that... it may download just the file(s) it needs
[16:51] <shadeslayer> Riddell: this particular lib is needed to compile a kde app
[16:51] <shtylman_> but I would bet that it just uses the package management system
[16:51] <shtylman_> to be safe
[16:51] <apachelogger> most likely
[16:52] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ^^ for me?
[16:52] <apachelogger> no :P
[16:52] <shadeslayer> :D
[16:52] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: for you: depends on if the library is a kde library and uses the kde buildsystem
[16:53] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: well it depends on other kde libs such as kdelibs5-dev...
[16:53] <apachelogger> then yes
[16:53] <shadeslayer> ok
[16:54] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: i just need : include /usr/share/cdbs/1/rules/debhelper.mk
[16:54] <shadeslayer> right?
[16:55] <Riddell> shadeslayer: if it build-deps on kdelibs then it wants the kde cdbs rules
[16:56] <apachelogger> ...the reason I think cubs should not be using cdbs :P
[16:56] <shadeslayer> ok
[16:57] <shadeslayer> btw do i need to add build-essential to the build depend?
[16:57] <apachelogger> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/38940781/colorbug.jpg
[16:57] <apachelogger> lol :D
[16:57] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: cdbs
[16:57] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: thats is lol
[16:58] <shtylman_> apachelogger: nice
[16:58] <Riddell> shadeslayer: no build-essential is explicity not needed as a build-depend, it's always assumed
[16:58] <apachelogger> I wonder where that comes from
[16:58] <shadeslayer> ok
[16:59] <shadeslayer> ok just one error : W: joschy source: debhelper-but-no-misc-depends joschy-dev
[16:59] <shadeslayer> infact its a warning :)
[17:00] <Riddell> lintian output is always googleable
[17:00] <Riddell> http://lintian.debian.org/tags/debhelper-but-no-misc-depends.html
[17:00] <shadeslayer> full o/p : http://pastebin.ca/1807022
[17:00] <shadeslayer> ooh
[17:02] <shadeslayer> Riddell: i have  ${misc:Depends} in the depends entry in debian/contro
[17:03] <Riddell> spooky
[17:03] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ah the package entry didnt have it
[17:04] <shadeslayer> pastebinit fails
[17:04] <shadeslayer> http://pastebin.ca/1807026
[17:04] <maco2> seele: did you see that email on the linuxchix list?
[17:05] <shadeslayer> um why the old konqueror logo? : http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_uY9EixhO9uU/S4CvrKkXlbI/AAAAAAAAI5I/UHrt5a7UV70/s1600-h/snapshot1.jpg
[17:05] <Riddell> shadeslayer: you need long descriptions
[17:05] <shadeslayer> Riddell: i know... dont have them right now
[17:06] <Riddell> shadeslayer: and the current description isn't very useful, it should say what it does not what uses it
[17:06] <Riddell> ok
[17:06] <shtylman_> shadeslayer: I am fixing that...won't be old logo by release
[17:06] <shadeslayer> Riddell: the gitorious page says nothing right now,im emailing the dev to ask for the description
[17:06] <shadeslayer> shtylman_: cool
[17:07] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: remember to install kdesdk-scripts and run optimizegraphics one the new ones are in ;)
[17:07] <Riddell> shtylman_, nixternal: I'm not sure we even want to promote konqueror, it's not like it's an app to be proud of these days
[17:07] <shadeslayer> shtylman_: well if i may suggest,something like konqi holding the world?
[17:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: on lucid?
[17:07] <shtylman_> Riddell: I can remove the page?
[17:07] <shtylman_> im fine with that...
[17:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: i just picked up that image from a blog..
[17:07] <shtylman_> but then what do we tell users about a webbrowser?
[17:07] <shtylman_> firefox? chrome? ... those aren't there by default
[17:08] <shadeslayer> oh btw
[17:08] <shtylman_> I personally use chrome
[17:08] <shtylman_> but we don't ship it cause of other concerns
[17:08] <shtylman_> chromium I mean
[17:08] <shadeslayer> suse is thinking of shipping rekonq as soon as it moves from playground
[17:08] <apachelogger> ohhhh!!!!
[17:08] <shadeslayer> just thought you might like to know
[17:08] <apachelogger> Riddell: we need to update kdewebkit
[17:08] <apachelogger> more recent version are quite decent
[17:09] <Riddell> shtylman_: mm, maybe keep it for now
[17:09] <shtylman_> Riddell: will do... if anything changes just let me know
[17:09] <shtylman_> its trivial to change
[17:10]  * shadeslayer uploads to his new ppa
[17:10] <shadeslayer> grr : Unable to find distroseries: unstable
[17:11] <shadeslayer> oh thats just dumb of me
[17:12] <apachelogger> omg!!!!
[17:12]  * apachelogger is omging too much
[17:12] <Riddell> apachelogger: did you just win a pony?
[17:12] <apachelogger> konqueror needs dolphin kpart which apparently is in dolphin package, so filemanagement does not work
[17:12] <apachelogger> Riddell: unfortunately no :(
[17:13] <apachelogger> s/no/not
[17:13] <Riddell> you don't have dolphin installed?
[17:13] <Mamarok> how about making a wiki page we can point users to who have problems with Akonadi not starting?
[17:13] <apachelogger> Riddell: bug 502097
[17:13] <apachelogger> Mamarok: that is on userbase already
[17:13] <Mamarok> userbase.kde.org is a bit complicated only for two lines
[17:14] <apachelogger> two lines?
[17:14] <Mamarok> apachelogger: I want to make a factoid
[17:14] <Mamarok> these two lines:
[17:14] <Mamarok> sudo aa-complain mysqld
[17:14] <Mamarok> sudo /etc/init.d/apparmor reload
[17:14] <apachelogger> ehm
[17:14] <apachelogger> there are no apparmor problems?
[17:15] <Mamarok> apachelogger: the main reason for Akonadi not starting is apparmor
[17:15] <apachelogger> no it is not?
[17:15] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: um i added tags : boot to bug 513237... hope thats fine
[17:15] <Mamarok> or so says usrebase.kde.org :)
[17:15] <apachelogger> Mamarok: maybe for source installations
[17:15] <apachelogger> our package deploys a config for apparmor and our mysqld
[17:15] <Mamarok> apachelogger: then talk to the userbase people, since they give exactly that solution
[17:16] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: that didnt work for me :(
[17:16] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: I wouldn't know, not exactly an interesting bug since the report implies he is a lot of people
[17:16] <apachelogger> Mamarok: among others
[17:16] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: and what did work?
[17:16] <Riddell> shtylman_: shutdown bug also reported on ubuntu side so maybe not our problem bug 526474
[17:16] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: nothing till now ><
[17:17] <apachelogger> Mamarok: you should send every use requesting assitance with akonadi to #akonadi
[17:17] <shadeslayer> ive never used akonadi :P
[17:17] <apachelogger> maybe that will make them fix their software :P
[17:17] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: it works for me, never had any problems, but according to userbase there is
[17:17] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: you don't use Kontact, then
[17:18] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: nope
[17:19] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: #akonadi will be flooded :D
[17:19] <Mamarok> apachelogger: so far almost all people who had Akonadi not starting who complained about it was for apparmor
[17:19] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: this is what i get : http://pastebin.ca/1807034
[17:19] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: rubbish, there are not that many, and those who have problems can solve it with two lines
[17:20] <apachelogger> if anyone wants to translate bug 483627
[17:20]  * apachelogger does not understand anything
[17:20] <Mamarok> shadeslayer: you have a very strange setting, then, never had that
[17:20] <apachelogger> Mamarok: until I see proof of that it is just not true
[17:20] <shadeslayer> Mamarok: lol.. like i said ive never needed akonadi
[17:20] <apachelogger> oh
[17:21] <apachelogger> note!!!
[17:21] <apachelogger> Mamarok: the status dialog that complains about errors at mysqld startup does only get shown twice
[17:21] <apachelogger> unless the mysqld startup really fails
[17:21] <apachelogger> so you would get a dialog for an error that was indeed not fatal but after that no more, because akoandi is indeed running
[17:22] <apachelogger> anyhow it is one big mess and I blame mysql for it
[17:22] <Mamarok> tsimpson: OK, let's forget about that factoid then *sigh*
[17:28] <shtylman_> Riddell: good to know... makes my life easier :)
[17:28] <shadeslayer> akonadictl start says : http://pastebin.ca/1807044
[17:32] <shadeslayer> lol.. just did a whois on kubotu  :P
[17:37] <seele> maco2: i am not on the linuxchix list unless you mean the dc one
[17:41] <Riddell> apachelogger: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/f5WFxPtp  remove icon cache from CD
[17:42] <JontheEchidna> hmm, i386 iso gets oxygen-icon-theme-complete on it, probably why amd64 is smaller at the moment
[17:43] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: i386 wasn't oversized so I kept it on
[17:43] <JontheEchidna> ah, ok
[17:44] <JontheEchidna> so that icon cache thing is gnome-specific?
[17:44] <Riddell> yes
[17:44] <JontheEchidna> didn't know that
[17:44] <JontheEchidna> does that mean the livecd also comes with /var/kdecache-ubuntu/kpc (kpixmapcache)?
[17:44] <shadeslayer_> suppose i want to specify a local mirror to download stuff from in pbuilder... what do i use?
[17:45] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger has a handy hook for local mirrors
[17:45] <shadeslayer_> like in the initial pbuilder-create run,i want it download stuff from my country mirror
[17:45] <apachelogger> Riddell: cool ... you know, I think that should be rm -f ${ROOT}/usr/share/icons/*/icon-theme.cache
[17:45] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: ^^
[17:45] <apachelogger> Riddell: hicolor also got a cache, not that large, but still
[17:45] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: I think that gets generated on first run, which is probably a notable boot time impediment
[17:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: see pbuilder-hooks branch on launchpad
[17:46] <JontheEchidna> so it's space vs boot time?
[17:46] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: see pbuilder-hooks branch on launchpad
[17:46] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I suppose you know about the branch already? ;)
[17:46] <JontheEchidna> ;)
[17:47] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: https://code.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/pbuilder/pbuilder-hooks ?
[17:47] <apachelogger> aighto
[17:48] <Riddell> apachelogger: http://kubuntu.pastebin.com/kj2tSBSR
[17:48] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: btw from where does pbuilder download the packages ?
[17:48] <shadeslayer_> in the default settings/
[17:48] <apachelogger> yay
[17:48]  * apachelogger hugs Riddell
[17:48] <apachelogger> Riddell: how soon can we get new images with that? :D
[17:49] <apachelogger> shadeslayer_: archive.ubuntu.com I think
[17:49] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: and i can change that right
[17:49] <apachelogger> you can change almost everything in pbuilder
[17:49] <apachelogger> or at least influence it
[17:49] <apachelogger> just need to know how ;)
[17:50]  * Riddell wonders why /usr/share/icons/kcm_gtk.png exists
[17:50] <Riddell> apachelogger: the machine will need to sync the update, I'm not sure how that works
[17:52] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: http://pastebin.ca/1807068
[17:53] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: btw if the base.tgz is in /var/cache... it wont be removed after every reboot right?
[17:54] <JontheEchidna> nah, it sticks around
[17:54] <shadeslayer_> oh thats good :)
[17:54] <JontheEchidna> if it was in /tmp, then we'd have to worry :D
[17:55] <Riddell> or /var/run
[17:55] <Riddell> or /var/lock
[17:56] <shadeslayer_> brb
[18:02] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: btw after i run pbuilder i just need to copy the source and run pdebuild right?
[18:02] <shadeslayer_> (in the directory containing debian/)
[18:02]  * apachelogger does nt use pdebuild
[18:02] <apachelogger> something like that I suppose
[18:02] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: then how do you use pbuilder?
[18:02] <apachelogger> manually :P
[18:03] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: eh?
[18:03] <apachelogger> pbuilder --help
[18:03] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: like what debuild does manually? \o/
[18:03] <apachelogger> yes
[18:03] <shadeslayer_> apachelogger: dude you must have alot of time :O
[18:04] <apachelogger> yep, I also do debuild manually
[18:04] <shadeslayer_> gah... :D
[18:05] <shadeslayer_> well im going for now... leaving pbuilder to do its stuff :P
[18:13] <Riddell> apachelogger: I can't work out what generates that gnome icon cache anyway
[18:13] <Riddell> it's normally dh_icon but the oxygen package doesn't use that
[18:15] <apachelogger> Riddell: maybe some other dh_ that invokes dh_icon
[18:15] <apachelogger> or maybe it is just hidden deep in the nothingless of build scripting
[18:15] <Riddell> well there is no postinst script
[18:15] <apachelogger> oh
[18:16] <Riddell> maybe it's gtk or something else
[18:16] <apachelogger> possibly
[18:16] <apachelogger> hicolor maybe
[18:16] <apachelogger> maybe the postinst does generate a cache for each icon set
[18:18] <Riddell> no in /var/lib/dpkg/info/hicolor-icon-theme.postinst
[18:18] <apachelogger> weird weird
[18:29] <maco2> seele: yes i meant the dc one
[18:30] <seele> maco2: ah, i will check it
[18:30] <seele> only check that mail once a day
[18:30] <maco2> seele: katie posted a link to a guy who's looking for local FOSS-types to interview
[18:30] <maco2> for tv
[18:30] <seele> huh
[18:30] <seele> dunno if i am photogenic enough
[18:31] <maco2> you're beautiful!
[18:35] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: any estimates on how much space removing this icon cache would free?
[18:36] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: 15 I'd say
[18:36] <JontheEchidna> hrmhrm
[18:37] <apachelogger> at least that is how much space it occupied with lzma -9
[18:37] <JontheEchidna> maybe we could put a few games on the CD in its place? I've always missed games on the default kubuntu install
[18:37] <JontheEchidna> maybe kpat, kmines, kbreakout
[18:37] <apachelogger> or translations :P
[18:37] <Riddell> I've always placed langpacks above games
[18:38] <JontheEchidna> yeah, true
[18:39] <JontheEchidna> kdegames-card-data would probably have to be split up, too
[18:42] <shadeslayer> hey
[18:43] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: i cant still figure out how to use pbuilder
[18:43] <shadeslayer> where do i copy the sources?
[18:45] <Riddell> you don't
[18:45] <shadeslayer> Riddell: then?
[18:46] <Riddell> sudo pbuilder build <pacakage>.dsc
[18:46] <shadeslayer> oh...
[18:46] <shadeslayer> Riddell: that after i run debuild -S -sa on the folder
[18:47] <shadeslayer> gah
[18:47] <Riddell> yes
[18:47] <shadeslayer> it downloads extra files?
[18:47] <shadeslayer> oh noes...
[18:48] <Riddell> it downloads everything needed to build it
[18:48] <shadeslayer> um.. i have a very slow net connection ><
[18:49] <shadeslayer> Riddell: and what does this tell you : http://launchpadlibrarian.net/39624345/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-amd64.joschy_0.0.0.1~git20100223-0ubuntu0~ppa2_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ?
[18:49] <Riddell> shadeslayer: something funny in your Depends in debian/control
[18:50] <shadeslayer> Riddell: http://pastebin.ca/1807133
[18:51] <shadeslayer> and yeah i changed it a bit... last one didnt work either
[18:52] <Riddell> your brackets are in the wrong place
[18:52] <Riddell> Depends: joschy1 (= ${binary:Version}), ${misc:Depends}
[18:53] <Riddell> should be like that
[18:53] <shadeslayer> ohh
[18:53] <shadeslayer> Riddell: apart from that,nothing else?
[18:54] <Riddell> that pastebin doesn't have anything for joschy1 package
[18:54] <Riddell> Build-Depends neater to have comma then space not space then comma
[18:57] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: it is libjoschy1, not joschy1 btw
[18:57] <apachelogger> in case that is a lib package
[18:57] <apachelogger> what I assume from the 1 ;)
[18:58] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: Riddell: http://pastebin.ca/1807142
[18:59] <shadeslayer> um one sec.. one more correction
[18:59] <Riddell> Lex79: colibri is in new, what stops /usr/share/dbus-1/services/org.freedesktop.Notifications.service clashing with notify-osd?
[19:00] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://pastebin.ca/1807145
[19:00] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: section libs for libjoschy1 is redundant with the one at the very top
[19:00] <Riddell> Depends: joschy1  that's wrong
[19:00] <apachelogger> if you do not define a section for the binary block it will inherit the section from source
[19:01] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: still missing long descriptions
[19:01] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: yeah i done have anything to write right now
[19:02] <shadeslayer> also its only going in my playgorund ppa
[19:02] <shadeslayer> *playground
[19:02] <apachelogger> that does not justify low quality packaging :P
[19:02] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: i know,but what do i write?
[19:03] <apachelogger> something that describes the package and its purpose
[19:03] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: also youre suggesting i change line 17 right?
[19:03] <apachelogger> and why a user would want to install it ;)
[19:05] <shadeslayer> hmm
[19:05] <claydoh> claydoh's Dumb Question of the Day: is it 'safe' to enable all the different ppa repos, ie there shouldn't be any conflicts or the like?
[19:05] <claydoh> I assume there should be none
[19:05] <apachelogger> it's not particularly tested
[19:05] <apachelogger> but
[19:05] <apachelogger> they override each other :P
[19:06] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: can you tell what exactly i need to change in : Section: libs
[19:06] <claydoh> override that's the word I needed
[19:06] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: remove it
[19:06] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: ah ok
[19:06] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: it gets inherited from the Section: libs in the top section
[19:07] <shadeslayer> ok...
[19:07] <apachelogger> the first stanza is the source stanza
[19:07] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: long description should be indented?
[19:07] <apachelogger> and usually what is there is inherited into the other stanzas (binary those are)
[19:07] <shadeslayer> in the second stanza
[19:08] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: yes, one char indent
[19:08] <shadeslayer> ok
[19:09] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: http://pastebin.ca/1807156
[19:11] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: this one is better : http://pastebin.ca/1807159
[19:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: the -dev still lacks a long description and if the libjochsy1 really feature sheader files, then something is seriously wrong ;)
[19:11] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: and the relationship with bangarang is unimportant
[19:11] <apachelogger> other apps can use the lib too :P
[19:11] <shadeslayer> ok
[19:11] <shadeslayer> hehe
[19:12] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: imagine that a developer who reads this must know why he might want to use this library in his application
[19:12] <apachelogger> oh, btw, recorditnow also uses it IIRC
[19:13] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: This library provides functions for uploading videos to  sites such as www.youtube.com and www.blip.tv
[19:13] <apachelogger> better
[19:14] <shadeslayer> doh... it isnt required by bangarang... just recorditnow
[19:15] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: well can i put it both the sections?
[19:15] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: yes, but no :P
[19:15] <shadeslayer> (oh and what are the other 2 called)
[19:15] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: you must somehow reflect that the -dev package contains the headers
[19:15] <shadeslayer> hmm
[19:16] <apachelogger> a common praticse for that is to write a line at the very bottom saying something like "this package contains the header files necessary to build applications against libfoobar0"
[19:16] <apachelogger> blah blah blah
[19:16] <apachelogger> .
[19:16] <apachelogger> this package contains...
[19:16] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: the indented period is to simulate an emty line
[19:16] <shadeslayer> header files necessary to build apps against recorditnow
[19:17] <apachelogger> ehm
[19:17] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: for the second section right
[19:17] <apachelogger> no :P
[19:17] <shadeslayer> :D
[19:17] <apachelogger> again you are implying that one can only link recorditnow against it
[19:17] <shadeslayer> oh...
[19:18] <shadeslayer> ok header files necessary to build apps against libjoschy0
[19:18] <apachelogger> more like it
[19:19] <shadeslayer> http://pastebin.ca/1807178 << apachelogger
[19:19] <shadeslayer> well ive gtg
[19:20] <Lex79> Riddell: I don't know, I'm not concerned about that dbus issue, I only made the package to be sure we have before feauture freeze :)
[19:20] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: just tell me if thats correct :P
[19:21] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: short description is not exactly useful, other than that it should be good
[19:21] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: well ill try to put something more useful
[19:21] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: cya tommorow,and thanks alot
[19:21] <shadeslayer> Riddell: thanks alot :D
[19:40] <Mamarok> hm, I have a user in #kubuntu who is locked out of karmic, using KDE 4.3.2
[19:41] <Mamarok> he sees the KDM login screen and then it fails
[19:41] <Mamarok> that's his kdm.log: http://paste.ubuntu.com/382457/
[19:42] <Mamarok> I could need some help, there
[19:45] <apachelogger> Mamarok: looks like a dbus issue to me
[19:46] <apachelogger> possibly rendering consolekit unusable, which would explain the behaviour
[19:47] <apachelogger> Mamarok: maybe ~/.xsession-errors contains more information
[19:48] <Mamarok> apachelogger: I will ask him, unless you have time for some support :)
[19:49] <apachelogger> not really, I am almost falling asleep ^^
[19:49] <Mamarok> OK, what should I look for there? any hints?
[19:51] <apachelogger> Mamarok: errors towards the end of file
[19:52] <nixternal> hola
[19:53] <Mamarok> hey nixternal, gone Spanish?
[19:53] <Mamarok> apachelogger: http://paste.ubuntu.com/382476/
[19:55] <nixternal> yeah, just had a wonderful mexican lunch...though, I think all I eat is either Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, Thai, or Indian food lately
[19:56] <Mamarok> sounds yummy
[19:57] <Mamarok> apachelogger: still around?
[19:57] <apachelogger> ohm
[19:57] <apachelogger> Mamarok: is the user starting failsafe perhaps?
[19:57] <Mamarok> hm, I will ask him
[19:58] <apachelogger> a regular session should probably not try to invoke x-terimnal-emulator
[19:58] <apachelogger> failsafe however would IIRC
[20:01] <Mamarok> well, apparently he is not in failsafe mode, but starts through ssh, this might be the problem
[20:13]  * nixternal smacks apachelogger with some negativity
[20:14] <apachelogger> oi vey!
[20:14] <Mamarok> is this only my impression or is przemo_one throwing random suggestions at beric?
[20:20] <nixternal> Riddell: I agree about Konqi, and that's why i decided it is just best to stick with "web browsing" and let the slide show something maybe on the firefox installer, and that Google Chromium is available, and that Kubuntu does have web browsing out of the box...now, that you think Konqi isn't that great, makes me think we need to choose a damn browser already, even if it is GTK based
[20:20] <nixternal> I have been reading some really good things about rekonq, and even from the windows side as well
[20:25] <Mamarok> gah,m that przemo guy is going on my nerves, really
[20:50] <jussi01> does anyone know how to change lilo for grub? when I installed grub wouldnt install so I had to use lilo...
[20:50] <jussi01> :/
[20:58] <nixternal> http://mypict.me/upload/0/60/752/60752837.jpg  <- do you see what I see?
[20:59] <Mamarok> hey! A Kubuntu sticker!
[21:05] <nixternal> woohoo!
[21:07] <nixternal> that's my buddy eddie who is teaching his neices and nephews Linux from the start...he goes to a highly technical university known as the Illinios Institute of Technology, and he studies..wait for it...wait for it...Political Science
[21:07] <nixternal> speaking of IIT, I am giving a talk there tonight
[21:07] <Mamarok> nice!
[21:07] <Mamarok> moar stickers to spread then :)
[21:08] <nixternal> I love going over to his house, his mom makes amazing authentic mexican food...mouth...is...watering
[21:12] <Mamarok> didn't you just eat mexican?
[21:21] <nixternal> Mamarok: yes, but it is probably by far my favorite food, very close to sushi though
[21:22] <Mamarok> hm, I think my preferred food is Asian, somewhere between Indian, Thai and Chinese, with the occasional Sushi or Sashimi (although the latter is hard to get)
[21:22] <nixternal> does choqok crash for everyone else after sending a dent/tweet?
[21:22] <Mamarok> and Italian
[21:22] <Mamarok> not for me, using Karmic and 4.4
[21:23] <nixternal> I grew up eating italian so much, I mean this is Chicago, and Italian is everywhere...though it is still one of my top 10s :)
[21:23] <nixternal> polish food, mainly perogies...oh boy, those will be the death of me :)
[21:23] <nixternal> and of course Chicago style pizza and Chicago hot dogs
[21:24]  * Sput loves sushi / sashimi
[21:24] <Sput> can't stand mexican :)
[21:26] <nixternal> NOOOO
[21:26] <nixternal> you just haven't had it done right then
[21:27] <nixternal> nothing like a sweet beach style mexican taco, a cold cabo waborita, and the sand in your toes
[21:27] <nixternal> one of these days, that is what my life will be on a daily basis...now to find a sweet job that allows me to telecommute so I can move down there already :)
[21:31] <Sput> I don't have anything against mexican beaches
[21:31] <Sput> but I don't need to have the food :)
[22:57] <nixternal> Riddell: KOffice 2.1.1 finished and uploaded \o/
[22:57]  * nixternal gets ready for his big presentation tonight
[22:58] <pgquiles> anyone working on Qt 4.6.2 ? I'm uploading it to my PPA (with Phonon 4.3.80, sadly I don't have time for Phonon 4.4.0 now)
[22:59] <pgquiles> ugh, just found it at riddell's PPA :-/
[23:10] <sgh> Riddell: Hi ..... my fix for karmic-backports. I think I can figure it out, but I cant figure out which branch to checkout
[23:11] <sgh> Riddell: I'm looking here : https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic
[23:20]  * NCommander readds this to AJOIN list
[23:20] <NCommander> Riddell: apachelogger: any objections if I kill smoke on ARM to get kdebindings to build?
[23:21] <NCommander> (I will take another stab at fixing it, but I'm not sure I'm going to get around to it)
[23:23] <apachelogger> NCommander: that == killing almost all bindings
[23:23] <apachelogger> so how much worth is that anyway
[23:24] <NCommander> apachelogger: hrm ... good point
[23:25]  * apachelogger just debugged the weirdest of all problems
[23:25] <apachelogger> well, actually I only traced it
[23:25] <apachelogger> debugging was unsuccessfull up until now -.-
[23:25] <JontheEchidna> ubiquity won't work on ARM without a bindings rebuild
[23:26] <JontheEchidna> thanks to the sip transition
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> Is there a more elegant way to do this? http://pastebin.ca/1807460
[23:28] <JontheEchidna> (trying to fix https://bugs.kde.org/227929)
[23:53] <Riddell> NCommander: yes smoke on ARM can be disabled for now, I don't see it as important enough to spend much time on.  ruby and c# will need to be disabled too
[23:53] <NCommander> JontheEchidna: on Kubuntu or in general?
[23:54] <JontheEchidna> NCommander: On Kubuntu (the ubiquity thing)
[23:55] <JontheEchidna> bug 522045
[23:56] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: incompatibility with new konundrum? bug 526673
[23:59] <NCommander> Riddell: can you take care of doing that? (I can get to it later, but I'm not that familiar with bindings packaging to successfully remove it)
[23:59] <NCommander> JontheEchidna: ugh :-/