[00:28] <crimsun> interesting update for bug 516189: I cannot reproduce the crash if I'm using metacity or compiz.
[00:28] <crimsun> OTOH, I /can/ reproduce it easily if I use ion3, xmonad, etc.
[00:28] <crimsun> I'll dig into it tomorrow if no one beats me to it
[02:37] <chrisccoulson> crimsun - i suspect that's due to our patch to add the visual effects tab
[02:37] <chrisccoulson> seeing as it only crashes when not using metacity or compiz
[02:41] <chrisccoulson> oh, i see what the issue is
[07:13] <TheMuso> bryceh: DO you maintain xorg in a vcs anywhere? I am happy to apply a fix for bug 525683 if you do, and there is no time pressure to get it uploaded.
[07:17] <bryceh> TheMuso, yes, it is maintained in git
[07:19] <bryceh> TheMuso, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/GitUsage
[07:23] <vish> hmm , I'm trying to get a gdb for a gnome-keyring-daemon for a lucid bug... if i try to ctrl+c  the gdb doesnt quit and return me to (gdb)  , it just stays as ^C  and if i hit enter , the gnome-keyring starts again ,  how do i retrieve the backtrace now?
[07:25] <vish> oh , seb128  isnt here yet :(
[07:36] <pitti> Good morning everyone
[07:36] <TheMuso> bryceh: thanks
[07:49] <bryceh> hiya pitti
[07:53] <baptistemm> hello
[08:00] <pitti> dobey: right, new gtk indeed fixes the rhythmbox CPU usage
[08:16] <TheMuso> bryceh: debian/po-failsafe/POTFILES.in is not being tracked in git. Is this intentional?
[08:19] <bryceh> TheMuso, hmm I don't think that's intentional
[08:25] <TheMuso> bryceh: I'll attach a git formatted patch to the above bug. I don't see the point to have a separate tree for a drive by update.
[08:25] <bryceh> TheMuso, 'separate tree'?
[08:26] <TheMuso> bryceh: On the wiki page you referred me to, it talks about setting up a tree. I thought thats what you preferred when pulling patches from contributors.
[08:27] <tjaalton> you probably have no commit access anyway
[08:28] <TheMuso> tjaalton: I do have an alioth account, but for a drive by patch it seems pointless.
[08:28] <bryceh> TheMuso, debdiff is fine, I can take it from there
[08:28] <tjaalton> TheMuso: yeah but are you in pkg-xorg :)
[08:28] <TheMuso> tjaalton: ah right I see your point.
[08:29] <TheMuso> bryceh: Ok will do.
[08:29] <bryceh> tjaalton, guess this is one argument favoring going to bzr
[08:32] <didrocks> good morning
[08:33] <tjaalton> bryceh: well, depends on the drive-by-patch in question, but I know :)
[08:33] <didrocks> bryceh: I had to fight a little this morning, nouveau uninstalling the nvidia driver, letting Xorg.conf with "nvidia". Then jockey didn't install a functional version of nvidia. Well, I'll give it a new shot after alpha3, but I guess this is related to the alternatives thing
[08:34] <didrocks> half an hour in the morning for that is not fun ;)
[08:34] <bryceh> sorry to hear
[08:34] <didrocks> well, nvidia is now installed, rebooting
[08:34] <bryceh> didrocks, I did go through a complete nouveau -> nvidia -> nouveau cycle to test things out just today, and it was fine for me
[08:35] <bryceh> also, I fixed up an issue with failsafeX so it works in KMS mode
[08:35] <bryceh> so hopefully a3 will be smoother
[08:36] <didrocks> bryceh: sweet, thanks
[08:37] <seb128> hey there
[08:37] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:39]  * pitti waves to the French mafia; bonjour didrocks, seb128!
[08:39] <didrocks> Guten Morgen pitti ;)
[08:39] <seb128> hello didrocks pitti
[08:42] <baptistemm> hello gentlemen
[08:42] <TheMuso> bryceh: Debdiff attached, no hurry for the upload, just include it whenever you need to update xorg next is fine.
[08:42] <bryceh> ok, thanks TheMuso
[08:44] <seb128> brb, reboot after upgrade
[08:47] <didrocks> lut baptistemm
[08:50] <seb128> re
[08:50] <seb128> so how does everybody feel the gtk update?
[08:50] <seb128> should fix the speed issues
[08:50] <pitti> seb128: so we get gwibber in the ubuntu desktop CDs after all?
[08:50] <pitti> seb128: RB is happy again
[08:51] <pitti> (it was the only thing I noticed)
[08:51] <seb128> don't forget to congrat bratsche for the great work he did
[08:51] <seb128> pitti, seems so
[08:51] <pitti> bratsche: you rock!
[08:51] <seb128> pitti, does it mean extra langpacks droppeD?
[08:51] <seb128> d
[08:51] <pitti> seb128: CDs are now almost full, and we only have somem 3 langpacks :(
[08:52] <pitti> no German, no French
[08:52] <seb128> sucks
[08:58] <bryceh> hi njpatel
[08:58] <njpatel> hey bratsche
[08:58] <njpatel> dammit
[08:58] <njpatel> bryceh, hey
[08:58] <bryceh> :-)
[08:58] <njpatel> bryceh, , saw your mail, but was unwell yesterday, will reply today :)
[08:59] <bryceh> ah ok, sorry to hear
[08:59] <pitti> hey njpatel, how are you? feeling better?
[08:59] <njpatel> Yep, better thanks, just migraines :(
[08:59] <seb128> didrocks, so, how about stopping slacking and helping on some updates today :p
[09:00] <didrocks> seb128: what, slacking? ;) I've closed my alpha3 own targeted busg yesterday :p
[09:00] <didrocks> seb128: I was going to propose to help you today TBH ;)
[09:01] <seb128> that's what you are saying now ;-)
[09:01] <didrocks> let me just relog to get new gtk updates and see my rhythmbox being happy again :)
[09:01] <seb128> ok
[09:07] <didrocks> doh, plymouth was reinstalled
[09:12] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[09:12] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[09:12] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you today?
[09:13] <pitti> I'm good, thanks; how about you?
[09:13] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i'm not too bad thanks
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, how are you?
[09:13] <seb128> good, thanks, you?
[09:13] <didrocks> hi chrisccoulson
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[09:14] <vish> seb128: hi.. I'm trying to get the gdb for the gnome-keyring bug... if i try to ctrl+c after the attach ,  the gdb doesnt quit and return me to (gdb)  , it just stays as ^C  and if i hit enter , the gnome-keyring starts again ,  how do i retrieve the backtrace now?
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, good thanks :)
[09:14] <vish> seb128: or is the strace from caleb enough?
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i had a look at my keymapping issue last night
[09:14] <chrisccoulson> Fn+F8 and the "p" key produce the same scancode :-/
[09:14] <seb128> vish, ctrl-C, bt?
[09:14] <seb128> vish, I'm just catching up with night changes
[09:14] <pitti> chrisccoulson: WTF?
[09:14] <seb128> vish, I didn't read bug emails yet
[09:15] <vish> k.. I'll wait :)
[09:15] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, that was my exact thought too ;)
[09:15] <pitti> chrisccoulson: that's a kernel or BIOS bug then, I'm afraid
[09:15] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think so. i'll try a karmic live CD later and see if it does the same
[09:25] <didrocks> seb128: taking brasero
[09:25] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[09:29] <didrocks> seb128: taking cheese and evince in the pipe as well
[09:32] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, I'm doing gnome-panel and gnome-media now
[09:47] <didrocks> seb128: ok
[09:51] <chrisccoulson> i'm missing out on all the updates. i must be starting 1 week too late ;)
[09:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, those come every 2 weeks don't panic ;-)
[09:52] <seb128> chrisccoulson, there will be plenty for you too
[09:52] <chrisccoulson> that's ok then ;)
[09:53] <baptistemm> pitti, I don't know if it is under your scope or rather on the X one, but I have a bug which I thought had disappeared and which I see again, sometimes my screen becomes blank for 1 or 2 sec as if I had shutdown my laptop, then the image comes back but darker, and I have a notification in the tray area pointing to a page of Richard Hugues about a missing patch in X stack.
[09:53] <pitti> seb128: ok if I take gvfs?
[09:53] <seb128> pitti, yes, it's blocked on new udisk though
[09:53] <baptistemm> gvfs need a new udisk version
[09:53] <baptistemm> *needs*
[09:53] <seb128> pitti, did davidz rolled a tarball?
[09:54] <seb128> alexl said he would yesterday
[09:54] <pitti> seb128: oh, I can do a new git snapshot easily
[09:54] <seb128> or that was the plan at least ;-)
[09:54] <pitti> we already have a git snapshot after all
[09:54] <seb128> that would rock
[09:54]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[09:54] <pitti> yes, I'm prodding david for actually doing gdu/udisks releases
[09:54] <pitti> seb128: ok, doing udisks/gdu/gvfs then
[09:55] <seb128> waouh
[09:55] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[09:56] <baptistemm> pitti, IIRC the notification points to http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/08/17/gnome-power-manager-and-blanking-removal-of-bodges/
[09:57] <pitti> baptistemm: uh, that was a while ago
[09:57] <pitti> I thought X got that ages ago
[09:57] <baptistemm> it seems not as I still hae the bug
[09:58] <baptistemm> do you want me to open a bug in lp?
[09:58] <pitti> baptistemm: there must be an existing bug for it; please reopen that one instead
[09:58] <pitti> so that we don't need to collect info all over again
[09:58] <baptistemm> 'k, sorry about that :/
[09:59] <baptistemm> strange that I experience that again
[10:00] <chrisccoulson> baptistemm / pitti, that should be fixed by a recent commit upstream
[10:01] <chrisccoulson> i did some investigation a couple of weeks ago, and found another race which might cause that issue
[10:02] <baptistemm> chrisccoulson, X.org or gpm?
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> gpm
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, it seems hughsie reverted the commit a few days ago
[10:02] <baptistemm> 'k,
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> not sure why though
[10:02] <baptistemm> huu
[10:05] <didrocks> upnp is really broken in rhythmbox since the package split… I will see if an upstream bug as already been filed
[10:08] <seb128> didrocks, do you have the coherence package installed?
[10:08] <didrocks> seb128: yes, and I installed the new package containing the plugin as well (as it's separate, right)?
[10:09] <seb128> didrocks, correct
[10:09] <seb128> didrocks, so I don't think it has anything with the binary split
[10:09] <seb128> it's rather since the git snapshot?
[10:09] <didrocks> seb128: I can go into the "mediatomb" item (upnp server), it begins to load and then crash
[10:09] <seb128> did you open a bug using apport?
[10:09] <didrocks> seb128: since few days approx. The last update I guess
[10:10] <seb128> since the git snapshot upload then
[10:10] <didrocks> seb128: not yet, I was first guessing it was related the gtk csd as it's really CPU intensive on my box. But I just tried without the patch
[10:10] <didrocks> I'll fill a bug today
[10:10] <didrocks> file*
[10:10] <seb128> ok thanks
[10:13] <pitti> seb128: hm, it builds just fine with our current gsd/udisks snapshots, though; do you know why it needs an even newer one?
[10:15] <pitti> seb128: oops, ignore me
[10:16] <seb128> pitti, I'm not sure
[10:16] <seb128> I guess it's one of the davidz changes
[10:16] <pitti> it failed eventually
[10:16] <seb128> ok
[10:17] <seb128> pitti, bug #580024 is to close btw
[10:17] <seb128> bug #365662
[10:17] <seb128> pitti, if you want to do it from the changelog
[10:18] <pitti> yay
[10:18] <didrocks> for rhythmbox: "the problem cannot be reported. The program crashed on an assertion failure, but the message could not be retrieved. Apport does not support reporting these crashes."
[10:18] <baptistemm> pitti, gvfs relies on the symbol gdu_volume_get_drive from a discussion on #nautilus
[10:19] <pitti> right, that's what it failed on
[11:01] <didrocks> seb128: updating vinagre
[11:01] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[11:22] <didrocks> seb128: doing gnome-themes and gnome-games, transmission
[11:23] <seb128> didrocks, there is a new transmission? maybe check with chrisccoulson he does that one usually I think
[11:23] <seb128> didrocks, good for gnome-themes and gnome-games ;-)
[11:23] <chrisccoulson> i think kklimonda already did the work for that
[11:23] <didrocks> seb128: oh ok, chrisccoulson: I see that transmission 1.91 is available?
[11:23] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: ok
[11:23] <chrisccoulson> could someone have a quick glance at bug 525220?
[11:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, what there?
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> i can't recreate it, and i'm not sure what's causing it
[11:24] <seb128> I've read comments
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> but it seems related to my patch
[11:24] <seb128> $ grep Gsd .xsession-errors
[11:24] <seb128> (gnome-settings-daemon:1479): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_new_valist: object class `GsdOsdNotification' has no property named `\u0002'
[11:24] <seb128> (gnome-power-manager:1496): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_new_valist: object class `GsdOsdNotification' has no property named `Z\x8b\u000c$\x89\u0004$\x8bD$\u0004\xc2\u000c'
[11:24] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ^
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> there are some valgrind errors, but i can't spot what i'm doing wrong ;)
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, i've got no idea why i don't see those errors
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> does the notification still work ok?
[11:26] <seb128> yes
[11:26]  * seb128 grrrs at gsd crashing every time he opens the laptop lid
[11:27] <chrisccoulson> so, the icon_names property is still being set correctly then
[11:27] <chrisccoulson> would you mind running "dbus-monitor" when you press the keys?
[11:27] <chrisccoulson> i'm wondering what the hint property gets set to
[11:30] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it's ok. i've spotted the error
[11:30] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh?
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> the list of properties passed to g_object_new is not NULL terminated
[11:31] <chrisccoulson> i'll fix that later ;)
[11:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, sorry I was finishing some packaging changes to start a build before looking at that
[11:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh good ;-)
[11:32] <seb128> chrisccoulson, when will you have time for those changes?
[11:32]  * pitti sighs at new gvfs and autoconf
[11:32] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I can do the change and upload now if you want the fix in alpha3
[11:32] <seb128> pitti, getting autoconf issue?
[11:32] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i can do those this evening, but feel free to make the change if you have time
[11:32] <pitti> seb128: it just stops installing some of the dbus .service files
[11:33] <pitti> but there was no change to Makefile.am, etc.
[11:34] <chrisccoulson> i'm quite amazed it doesn't crash :-/
[11:35] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I might do it before, we are technically soft frozen so better to not wait until tonight for upload
[11:36]  * seb128 kicks gtk
[11:36] <seb128> I also don't like how applications loose theme on g-s-d crash and don't apply it again when restart g-s-d
[11:36] <kklimonda> chrisccoulson: right - I have 1.91 update prepared and linked to the bug report but it wasn't that urgent to get before a3 so I didn't push it with you (and I then I got some other things to do)
[11:38] <pitti> seb128: ooh, I bet I know
[11:38] <seb128> pitti, oh?
[11:39] <pitti> hm, no, I don't
[11:39] <seb128> do you want me to have a look?
[11:39] <seb128> can you push your changes to bzr?
[11:39] <seb128> I can quickly see if I see something from the diff and configure
[11:40] <pitti> seb128: already done
[11:40] <seb128> ok, looking
[11:40] <pitti> seb128: I suppose something is wrong with getting $DBUS_SERVICE_DIR
[11:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - applications not applying their themes again is annoying
[11:40] <chrisccoulson> it would be nice if gsd didn't crash though ;)
[11:41] <seb128> yeah, it does crash almost every time I use the dock station with lid closed
[11:41] <seb128> and open the lid again
[11:41] <pitti> DBUS_SERVICE_DIR =
[11:41] <pitti> that woudl be it
[11:41] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'll see if i can recreate that too
[11:42] <seb128> pitti, seems so indeed
[11:42] <pitti> seb128: ah, I blame gicmo
[11:42] <pitti> 9936956378f295a12b05b5194af2397be2a9c94f
[11:43] <pitti> seb128: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gvfs/commit/?id=9936956378f295a12b05b5194af2397be2a9c94f
[11:43] <seb128> pitti, yeah I was just looking at it
[11:45] <seb128> pitti, do you see what is wrong in the commit?
[11:46] <pitti> it changed the scope of the [] brackets
[11:46] <pitti> but I don't know whether that's it
 seb128: ups! ;-)
[11:46] <seb128>  seb128: ")" is too early
[11:46] <seb128> seb128: *fixing*
[11:46] <pitti> I think I just add it as a configure option for now
[11:46] <seb128> pitti, right ;-)
[11:47] <seb128> or move the )
[11:47] <seb128> and redo the autoconf patch
[11:47] <pitti> there is no autoreconf patch
[11:47] <pitti> I'll drop that in the next upload again
[11:47] <pitti> that -> configure option
[11:47] <seb128> ok
[11:48] <pitti> seb128: thanks for your help
[11:49] <seb128> pitti, you did all the work there ;-)
[11:49]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[11:49]  * pitti finishes updating the b-deps from diffing configure.ac, and builds again
[11:53] <seb128> pitti, http://live.gnome.org/Empathy/FAQ btw
[11:53] <seb128> pitti, see bottom of the page for something useful
[11:53] <pitti> seb128: ooh, thahnks
[11:53] <seb128> np
[11:54]  * pitti currently runs pidgin in parallel
[11:56] <pitti> hoooray! ICQ!
[11:57] <pitti> brb, testing gvfs/gdu/udisks
[11:57] <seb128> ;-)
[12:00] <pitti> seb128: ok, udisks/gdu updated in experimental and lucid, gvfs tested, uploading gvfs nwo
[12:01] <seb128> pitti, waouh, you rock
[12:01] <pitti> well, that was just a tiny part of the gnome update :)
[12:01] <pitti> you guys rock harder then :)
[12:01] <pitti> anyway, I need to run out for lunch and getting a bday present for my sister
[12:01] <pitti> back in 1.5 hours or so
[12:02] <seb128> hum lunch,
[12:02] <seb128> starting libgweather build and doing that too
[12:06] <asac> didrocks: hi
[12:06] <didrocks> hey asac
[12:08] <asac> didrocks: jamie wondered where the fallback is currently done
[12:08] <asac> 2d/3d
[12:08] <asac> any info?
[12:08] <didrocks> asac: where? it's done in netbook-launcher
[12:08] <asac> didrocks: which script?
[12:09] <didrocks> asac: it's not a script, it's in netbook-launcher itself. I rooled a new tarball
[12:09] <didrocks> rolled*
[12:09] <asac> oh
[12:09] <asac> didrocks: which source file ;)
[12:09] <asac> ?
[12:09] <asac> thats what he wondered in the end
[12:09] <didrocks> asac: src/main.c IIRC, let me check
[12:11] <didrocks> asac: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~netbook-remix-team/netbook-remix-launcher/trunk/revision/459
[12:16] <asac> didrocks: so you dont want to have the 2d launcher in the seed, right?
[12:16] <asac> just saw that its still [armel]
[12:16] <asac> didrocks: thanks!!
[12:19] <didrocks> asac: no, it's a recommend for ubuntu-netbook, so, it's already pulled
[12:19] <didrocks> oupss netbook-launcher*
[12:20] <asac> ok
[12:21] <didrocks> asac: jamie isn't there? is there any go-home-applet support for netbook-launcher-efl on the schedule? Because when people trying to click on it, it tries to launch netbook-launcher 3D
[12:21] <asac> didrocks: he is travelling :/
[12:21] <didrocks> ok, should I reassign the bug to him?
[12:24] <asac> didrocks: do that for now. yes.
[12:25] <asac> didrocks: also give me the bug id ;)
[12:28] <didrocks> asac: bug #525854
[12:32] <asac> thx
[13:15] <asac> seb128: can you be polite and not upload gtk in freeze week ;)
[13:15] <asac> thanks
[13:15] <seb128> asac, why not?
[13:15] <asac> seb128: because situations like this happen
[13:15] <seb128> asac, you probably didn't want alpha with a gtk 6 times slower and eating cpu
[13:15] <asac> gtk fails to build
[13:16] <asac> stuff goes out of sync and we suffer in arm
[13:16] <asac> right
[13:16] <asac> if there was a strong reason thats fine
[13:16] <seb128> good
[13:16] <asac> well ;) ... lets hope we get it built
[13:16] <seb128> today's upload I did because previous gtk build failed on armel anyway
[13:16] <seb128> random segfault
[13:16] <asac> right
[13:16] <asac> thats a give back usually
[13:16] <asac> our builders are flaky
[13:16] <seb128> so if you had to retry a build anyway...
[13:17] <asac> anyway. just remember that gtk in freeze week can be painful for us ;) ... then i am happy
[13:17] <seb128> I figured I could land my changes as well and get the new revision to try
[13:17] <seb128> asac, yeah, I think about you guys every time I do upload gtk don't worry ;-)
[13:17] <seb128> I had blocked the new revision in fact and only uploaded because the armel build failed
[13:18] <asac> right
[13:18] <asac> thanks a lot ;)
[13:18] <seb128> you're welcome
[13:19] <seb128> sorry for the upload yesterday but that one was required ;-)
[13:43] <didrocks> seb128: updating gcalctool now (there is an issue on mallard with doc converted to it: no more omf file and so, can't find them in yelp search. empathy as the same issue as well)
[13:45] <seb128> didrocks, didn't robert_ancell did the gcalctool update?
[13:46] <didrocks> seb128: oh right, there has been so many updates yesterday that it was no more on my first page of -changes
[13:46] <didrocks> as he ported to mallard, I'll see if he has the same issue
[13:47] <seb128> didrocks, we have the table in the topic you know ;-)
[13:48] <didrocks> seb128: hum, right :-)
[13:48] <kenvandine> seb128, does pbuilder not run linitian?
[13:48] <didrocks> seb128: same issue with gcalctool and no omf file. I'll file a bug, as well for empathy
[13:48]  * kenvandine should say hello... good morning/afternoon all!
[13:48] <seb128> kenvandine, I guess not if you didn't install lintian there
[13:48] <seb128> hey kenvandine
[13:48] <didrocks> hey kenvandine ;)
[13:48] <seb128> didrocks, could be time to update your documentation stack?
[13:48] <seb128> didrocks, could be that newer 2.29 versions handle that case
[13:49] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - bug 517616 is weird. if i understand the reporter correctly, i see that on my laptop too
[13:49] <didrocks> seb128: oh, the new yelp, you mean?
[13:49] <kenvandine> oh...
[13:49] <seb128> didrocks, or gdu
[13:49] <seb128> or both
[13:49] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I don't understand the reporter
[13:49] <kenvandine> seb128, what's the best way to get it to install linitian?
[13:50] <didrocks> seb128: so, yelp is using another branch, right, for webkit? there is no tarball?
[13:50] <didrocks> seb128: trying to update gdu first
[13:50] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[13:50] <seb128> kenvandine, I'm not sure, maybe didrocks knows though
[13:50] <seb128> kenvandine, I've not used pbuilder for months now
[13:50] <kenvandine> didrocks, ?
[13:50] <seb128> if that's not years
[13:51] <didrocks> kenvandine: one sec, let me pastebin my hooks
[13:51] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - what i've noticed on my laptop is: i've installed some applications since doing a fresh install, and i see the extra menu entries in my own account. but, when i log in to my gf's account, she only sees the menu entries from the stock install (and none of the additional applications i've installed)
[13:51] <kenvandine> thx
[13:51] <seb128> chrisccoulson, weird
[13:51] <chrisccoulson> yeah, that is a bit strange
[13:51] <kenvandine> i can't build anything locally that runs g-ir-scanner... it segfaults
[13:51] <kenvandine> gotta debug that at some point :)
[13:52] <didrocks> kenvandine: do you already have some hooks?
[13:52] <kenvandine> yeah
[13:52] <kenvandine> apt-get install linitian ?
[13:52] <kenvandine> in a hook?
[13:53] <didrocks> kenvandine: so, just create a D10installlintian with: http://paste.ubuntu.com/382263/
[13:53] <didrocks> kenvandine: right, in one with a D, to have it before installing anything else
[13:53] <kenvandine> haha... that's too easy
[13:53] <kenvandine> :)
[13:54] <didrocks> right ;)
[13:54] <pitti> re
[13:54]  * kenvandine thinks linitian is important enough pbuilder should just do it :)
[13:56] <didrocks> kenvandine: also, I have others hooks like installmissing, custompool, etc :)
[13:56] <didrocks> that's pretty handy
[13:56] <kenvandine> i have a few
[13:56] <kenvandine> let me see
[13:56] <seb128> pitti, wb
[13:56] <kenvandine> C10shell  D09custompool  D10aptupdate
[13:57] <kenvandine> installmissing would be handy
[13:58] <didrocks> seb128: I don't see very well the difference between gnome-doc-utils and gtk-doc-tools btw. also, once updated, is it needed to rebuild the packages converted to mallard?
[13:58] <seb128> I've no clue I was doing random guessing about what I would try
[13:58] <seb128> I looked at none of those changes this cycle
[14:00] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I still try that and put my question on the "question to ask entry" ;)
[14:06] <jcastro> pitti: shortly after UDS we talked to till about app indicators and he was favorable to presenting it to upstream for us.
[14:07] <jcastro> pitti: (when that time comes)
[14:07] <jcastro> pitti: I am talking about hplip
[14:08] <pitti> ah, wasn't there a patch flying by already?
[14:10] <jcastro> yes, you've asked him to review it
[14:10] <jcastro> I just wanted to mention that should he ask, getting that upstream for us would be nice. :)
[14:17] <franco> Hola quiero saber si viene algún programa similar a teamviewer para ubuntu
[14:18] <seb128> hello, in english?
[14:19] <didrocks> seb128: new g-d-u and gnome-games built with it doesn't change anything. yelp webkit as no change related to that: http://git.gnome.org/browse/yelp/log/?h=webkit. So, let's see later. I can still upload new g-d-u now :)
[14:19] <franco> Hello I want to know whether any programs similar to 'teamviewer' to ubuntu
[14:19] <seb128> didrocks, I was not suggesting keeping the webkit version but looking at what the gecko 2.29 do
[14:19] <tgpraveen12> franco: join #ubuntu this chanel
[14:19] <tgpraveen12> is for developers
[14:19] <seb128> using webkit was a debian thing not an upstream one
[14:20] <franco> thank you
[14:20] <didrocks> ok, so, let's try with the gecko branch :)
[14:24] <seb128> ups
[14:25] <seb128> xorg crashed and then weird issues, I had to reboot
[14:26] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128. i pushed a fix for bug 516189 to bzr last night. i'm not sure if you want to sponsor that this afternoon, or wait until after a3 now
[14:26] <bratsche> Thanks seb128, pitti
[14:26] <didrocks> seb128: just telling you "ok, I give a try with the gecko branch, I see an interesting commit in yelp git tree" :)
[14:28] <seb128> hey bratsche
[14:28] <seb128> didrocks, which one?
[14:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, is that only happning with exotic wms?
[14:28] <didrocks> seb128: http://git.gnome.org/browse/yelp/commit/?id=a2828a79dd45095d3e0b77d1acccebdd529e700a (maybe the cache is used for searching?)
[14:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i think so
[14:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, can wait after a3 I would say
[14:29] <seb128> didrocks, could be
[14:30] <seb128> hum, need another session restart, brb
[14:36] <didrocks> seb128: ok, I got an upstream answer. It's a known issue with all the current mallard documentation. Do you still want me to update yelp? (g-d-u is ready)
[14:37] <seb128> is upstream on IRC? are you talking to them there?
[14:37] <didrocks> seb128: shaunm on #docs
[14:38] <seb128> can you ask if 2.29 break any sort of compatibility
[14:38] <seb128> ie if he recommends upgrading now for our lts
[14:38] <didrocks> ok
[14:38] <seb128> we don't want to start on the GNOME3 format change now
[14:38] <seb128> thanks
[14:39] <didrocks> you're welcome :)
[14:44] <didrocks> seb128: upstream recommends 2.30, there are few changes from 2.28 and "it's not like yelp 3.0 or anything.  that's a huge shakeup"
[14:45] <seb128> ok, can you do the update switching back to gecko version then?
[14:46] <didrocks> sure, I'm just a little afraid to do it so close to alpha3, what's your opinion?
[14:46] <didrocks> in case I suck ;)
[14:47] <seb128> doit
[14:47] <seb128> it's only one application
[14:47] <didrocks> ok
[14:47] <seb128> and it's not like people using the unstable versions need it to get work done
[14:48] <didrocks> true ;)
[14:48] <kenvandine> seb128, can i get you to sponsor lp:~ubuntu-desktop/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store/ubuntu again?
[14:48]  * kenvandine adds an agenda item to the weekly meeting... 
[14:49] <kenvandine> seb128, after your finished, let me know... i want to delete that branch
[14:49] <kenvandine> that should go to lp:ubuntu/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store
[14:49] <seb128> kenvandine, ok, it's already to ubuntu/...
[14:49]  * kenvandine wants a good way to keep track of where sources are maintained until we get them all in
[14:50] <kenvandine> yeah, but i can't push to it :)
[14:50] <seb128> I got libubuntuone and r-u-m-s moved a week ago
[14:50] <seb128> kenvandine, is the store supposed to work?
[14:50] <kenvandine> not quite :)
[14:50] <seb128> because I still get the one line label thing
[14:50] <kenvandine> but all server side
[14:50] <seb128> ok
[14:50] <kenvandine> or so aquarius says
[14:50] <kenvandine> all the code locally is gone
[14:50] <kenvandine> for that hack to work around the store being down
[14:50] <seb128> and yet it still displays only a label
[14:51] <kenvandine> so what you see is coming from the server
[14:51] <kenvandine> so when they turn it on, you should see the store
[14:51] <kenvandine> right aquarius?
[14:51] <aquarius> correct
[14:51]  * kenvandine is glad there is a u1 logo in there now :)
[14:51] <aquarius> seb128, at the moment, we've disabled the music store on production U1, until I'm confident that it works.
[14:51] <seb128> aquarius, will that be for alpha3 or not?
[14:52] <kenvandine> seb128, so this should be the last change to the desktop stuff needed before a3
[14:52] <aquarius> seb128, yes. That's what I'm aiming for. Trying really hard! :)
[15:01] <didrocks> seb128: can you please sponsor g-d-u: lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-doc-utils/ubuntu
[15:03] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[15:05] <didrocks> thanks :)
[15:05] <pitti> seb128: you have used Xephyr before?
[15:06] <seb128> yes
[15:06] <seb128> pitti, why?
[15:06] <pitti> seb128: do you know the incantation to start a session for another user?
[15:06]  * pitti needs to test something, but also watch the meeting in between
[15:06] <seb128> I usually do
[15:06] <seb128> Xephyr :1
[15:06] <seb128> su <user>
[15:06] <seb128> then run
[15:06] <seb128> DISPLAY=:1 dbus-launch gnome-session
[15:07] <seb128> then you can keep Xephyr running
[15:07] <pitti> seb128: awesome, thanks
[15:07] <seb128> and ctrl-C run again gnome-session or other things as you need
[15:07] <seb128> np
[15:14] <seb128> kenvandine, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store/ubuntu does go to lp:ubuntu/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store
[15:14] <kenvandine> ?
[15:14] <kenvandine> oh
[15:14] <kenvandine> it's an alias?
[15:15] <seb128> well I did bzr pull on my lp:ubuntu/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store checkout
[15:15] <seb128> it gives me your changes
[15:15] <seb128> so I guess it is yes
[15:15] <kenvandine> interesting :)
[15:15] <kenvandine> we should do that for all our packages
[15:15] <seb128> I didn't do anything, that's a james_w magic I guess ;-)
[15:17] <james_w> you requested it!
[15:17] <seb128> james_w, I requested it to be on lp:ubuntu/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store, I didn't know he would still be there on the ubuntu-desktop namespace too
[15:18] <seb128> ;-)
[15:18] <james_w> ah
[15:18] <seb128> I though you were supposed to use lp:ubuntu/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store directly after the move
[15:18] <seb128> which I do btw ;-)
[15:19] <seb128> james_w, I'm still not clear how those things are supposed to work to be honest
[15:19] <kenvandine> seb128, me either..
[15:19] <seb128> especially what happens if you upload and forget to push
[15:19] <seb128> do you get upload diff going to the canonical location?
[15:19] <kenvandine> james_w, and are we supposed to run bzr mark-uploaded?
[15:20] <james_w> the bot will import the source package
[15:20] <james_w> kenvandine: yes
[15:20] <james_w> when on the revision that you upload
[15:20] <kenvandine> ok
[15:20] <seb128> james_w, which means I'm screwed if I forgot to push and the bot beat me to do his auto magic?
[15:20] <kenvandine> seb128, probably not actually
[15:20] <james_w> seb128: you could push --overwrite
[15:20] <james_w> I hardly think you are screwed :-)
[15:20] <kenvandine> james_w, but the contents will be the same
[15:21] <seb128> james_w, btw can I delete a tag from a lp:... location?
[15:21] <kenvandine> so probably work pretty smoothly
[15:21] <james_w> seb128: hmm, I'm not sure
[15:21] <james_w> #bzr
[15:21] <seb128> I sometime do: work, work, debcommit -r, bzr push, <notice issue>, bzr tag --delete tag; change; debcommit -r, bzr push
[15:22] <seb128> and from then I get a conflicting tag warning
[15:22] <seb128> it seems to delete the tag locally and not on the lp: location
[15:22] <seb128> james_w, ok, will ask a bit later, thanks
[15:22] <james_w> yes, that's expected behaviour
[15:23] <james_w> I don't know how to delete a tag from the lp branch though
[15:26] <kenvandine> pitti, we need to get rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store on the CD too
[15:26] <pitti> oh, it's not seeded yet?
[15:28] <pitti> ./ubuntu.lucid/desktop: * (rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store)
[15:28] <pitti> kenvandine: perhaps it was only promoted recently
[15:28]  * pitti rebuilds ubuntu-meta
[15:28] <pitti> kenvandine: I suppose we also want it on netbook
[15:28]  * pitti seeds
[15:28] <kenvandine> thx
[15:28] <kenvandine> yes... netbook too
[15:28] <kenvandine> afaik
[15:30] <TeTeT> asac: any news from Dan on the blacklisting patch?
[15:32] <seb128> didrocks, sponsored
[15:32] <didrocks> seb128: thanks ;)
[15:32] <seb128> np
[15:33] <didrocks> pitti: thanks for seeding it on netbook
[15:33] <LaserJock> didrocks: I'm confused about the OO.o situation
[15:34] <LaserJock> didrocks: wouldn't it make sense if any OO.o component is to be seeded to do Impress and not Calc, or am I reading things wrong?
[15:35] <didrocks> LaserJock: I'm afraid I don't understand the question, impress writer and calc are currently seeded
[15:35] <LaserJock> didrocks: hmm, for a while I thought abiword, gnumeric, and calc-only were
[15:36] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, but finally, due to user's feedback, we removed abiword and gnumeric and pushed OOo again
[15:36] <LaserJock> something must have gone screwy with my update this morning then
[15:37] <LaserJock> it was wanting to install *only* OOo-calc
[15:37] <didrocks> LaserJock: right, OOo-calc has been reseeded yesterday
[15:37] <didrocks> LaserJock: and autoremove should remove abiword and gnumeric, I think
[15:37] <LaserJock> didrocks: is there a big size difference between OOo and abiword/gnumeric?
[15:38] <didrocks> LaserJock: oh yes, but if you just bring one OOo component, you bring more than 90% of it, so…
[15:38] <LaserJock> would it be worth pushing long term for a decent GNOME presentation app?
[15:39] <pitti> kenvandine: ubuntu-meta uploaded with rb-music-store
[15:39] <didrocks> LaserJock: that's something to discuss with GNOME people, but I really think something else than impress should exist, yes
[15:39] <kenvandine> pitti, thx!
[15:39] <kenvandine> aquarius, no pressure... get the store working!
[15:39] <kenvandine> :-D
[15:39] <aquarius> thanks, pitti
[15:39] <james_w> he might have time to do so if people stopped nagging him about it :-)
[15:40] <aquarius> kenvandine, yeah, I was just sitting here reading a book and wondering what I should be working on :)
[15:40] <LaserJock> didrocks: abiword starts so much faster on my netbook, and the GNOME integration is cool with telepathy
[15:40] <LaserJock> didrocks: but I too have found the lack of a presentation tool a problem, that's why I use LaTeX
[15:40] <kenvandine> aquarius, haha... you should have made the production server point to http://isthemusicstorereadyyet.com/
[15:40] <kenvandine> :-D
[15:40] <didrocks> LaserJock: I totally agree, but you saw the feedbacks and we can't ignore them (and we can't force everyone to use beamer ;))
[15:41] <aquarius> kenvandine, would have been funny, but I get enough people shouting at me as it is ;)
[15:41] <LaserJock> didrocks: for sure, I know what you mean. I just wonder what can be done long-term.
[15:42] <didrocks> LaserJock: I tried to have a look at other tool to edit/show presentation. Nothing really usuable, unfortunately
[16:03] <desrt> seb128: hey
[16:03] <seb128> desrt, hello
[16:03] <desrt> we just missed string freeze for the eog patch :(
[16:03] <desrt> you guys have your own translation infra for this sort of thing, right?
[16:04] <seb128> we can still get a freeze exception
[16:04] <chrisccoulson> pitti - does gpm do anything to trigger notify-osd at startup?
[16:04] <seb128> especially if that's not displayed by default upstream
[16:04] <desrt> that's true...
[16:04] <pitti> chrisccoulson: probably querying for capabilities; will check that
[16:04] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I chmodded nm-applet and gpm to 0, and with libnotify in the desktop PPA I now don't get notify-osd running at all
[16:04] <desrt> but the momentum isn't really there right now, so i don't expect much
[16:04] <ccheney> LaserJock: yea something non-Sun would be good long term :)
[16:04] <seb128> desrt, ok, I'm fine distro patching for this cycle too
[16:04] <pitti> chrisccoulson: and either one brings it back (although at a much later time than on the current charts, wehre it pretty much starts right away)
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> pitti - does gsd not trigger it as well? (the code is the same)
[16:05] <desrt> seb128: i think that might be best
[16:05] <pitti> chrisccoulson: it doesn't seem to query for caps right away, only on demand
[16:05] <desrt> seb128: certainly we can't be blamed at this point for anti-social behaviour
[16:05] <ccheney> LaserJock: http://lwn.net/Articles/370157/ is sad but true :-\
[16:05] <seb128> right
[16:05] <chrisccoulson> pitti - want me to take the gpm item? i'm working on another fix for that patch anyway
[16:05] <pitti> chrisccoulson: that would be nice
[16:05] <pitti> chrisccoulson: then I'll look at nm-applet
[16:06] <chrisccoulson> cool, i can take that then. thanks
[16:06] <pitti> chrisccoulson: use libnotify from desktop PPA
[16:06] <pitti> chrisccoulson: merely starting g-p-m shouldn't trigger notify-osd
[16:06] <chrisccoulson> will do. thanks
[16:06]  * LaserJock stabs empathy, "why, oh why do you betray me just when I was learning to love you?!"
[16:07] <seb128> speaking about empathy, kenvandine how is the update going?
[16:07] <seb128> kenvandine, we should upload today if we want it in a3
[16:08] <chrisccoulson> heh, maybe i should volunteer to maintain gpm in ubuntu. i seem to spend a lot of my time on it now ;)
[16:08]  * chrisccoulson hides
[16:08] <kenvandine> seb128, yeah... plan to
[16:08] <kenvandine> bigon wanted me to wait for his upload to debian, which he got done last night
[16:08] <kenvandine> i updated the patches already
[16:11] <didrocks> mallard documentation is way nicer rendered in gecko than in webkit :)
[16:11] <seb128> nice
[16:18] <seb128> asac, gtk build on armel now btw
[16:18] <seb128> built rather
[16:25] <rickspencer3> hi stormy_
[16:26] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, bryceh, ccheney, didrocks, kenvandine, pitti, Riddell, seb128, tkamppeter, tseliot - team meeting in 4 minutes (right?)
[16:27] <seb128> (no, 3)
[16:27] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, yup
[16:27] <kenvandine> hehe
[16:27] <didrocks> yep, hey rickspencer3 ;)
[16:27]  * ArneGoetje is present
[16:27] <Riddell> afternoon
[16:27] <tseliot> yep
[16:28] <pitti> o/
[16:29] <ccheney> hi
[16:29] <ara> hello!
[16:29] <rickspencer3> thanks ara!
[16:30] <rickspencer3> the upgrade testing topic is first, so we won't take too much of your time
[16:30] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-02-23
[16:30] <seb128> hey ara
[16:31] <rickspencer3> has anyone been busy the last couple of weeks?

[16:31] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, mostly playing golf :)
[16:31] <tseliot> nope
[16:31]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[16:31] <rickspencer3> first is actions from last meeting
[16:31] <bryceh> heya
[16:31] <rickspencer3> and I was the only one with an action, and I actually did it for a change!
[16:32] <rickspencer3> rickspencer3 to engage QA wrt upgrade testings
[16:32] <rickspencer3> so turns out ara has an upgrade testing plan she is working on
[16:33] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Upgrade
[16:33] <rickspencer3> ara, any comments or thoughts?
[16:33] <ara> yes, sure
[16:33] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Upgrade
[16:34] <ara> what we want is that during the next UGJ, which occurs between Beta1 and Beta2, we encourage people joining the Jam to upgrade their systems to Lucid
[16:34] <tkamppeter> hi
[16:35] <ara> we will try to train their LoCo contacts how to help others to report the bugs
[16:35] <ara> and look for possible regressions
[16:35] <rickspencer3> ara is there anyway to get started looking at certain upgrade scenarios sooner?
[16:35] <ara> hopefully that will give us different configurations, with different drivers, packages installed, etc.
[16:35] <Riddell> UGJ?
[16:36] <ara> Ubuntu Global Jam
[16:36] <ara> yes, that was my next question. that maybe that was a bit late in the dev cycle
[16:36] <huats> hello everyone
[16:36] <ara> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam
[16:37] <ara> rickspencer3, what kind of scenarios are you most interested in?
[16:37] <rickspencer3> ara, also, apparantly upgrades for uses who have proprietary drivers installed has been problematic in the past
[16:37] <rickspencer3> so folks who have been upgrading over multiple versions, and have proprietary graphics or wireless drivers
[16:37] <tseliot> naah :-P
[16:38] <pitti> one thing that woudl be particularly interesting is a dapper->hardy->lucid upgrade with nvidia drivers installed
[16:38] <rickspencer3> anyone have any thoughts for ara about how we could work together to get some of this testing done?
[16:38] <ara> rickspencer3, we are running a project for people with ATI & nVIDIA cards with proprietary drivers
[16:38] <ara> rickspencer3, http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/xorg_prop_drivers/
[16:38] <pitti> since that will exercise pretyt much all the changes that we applied to them (l-r-m -> dkms -> alternatives)
[16:38] <ara> rickspencer3, we can tell the same testers to test the upgrade
[16:38] <seb128> pitti, I got a friend who had that broken but with ->karmic rather than ->lucid
[16:38] <davmor2> pitti: I can do the multiple upgrades on nvidia but not today
[16:39] <seb128> (not really a meeting topic)
[16:39] <ara> so, for the nVIDIA one, we have quite a long list of people willing to test things
[16:39] <rickspencer3> nice
[16:39] <ara> here is the list of people who signed up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/ProprietaryDrivers/WeeklyProgram
[16:40] <tseliot> in the case of ATI we don't have a (working) proprietary driver yet
[16:40] <ara> but, the difference is that it is not the same thing to ask people to install lucid fresh in a different partition
[16:40] <seb128> tseliot, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-180/+bug/467490 you might want to look at for lucid
[16:40] <ara> than telling them to upgrade their own system
[16:41] <rickspencer3> ara, what is the best way for us to engage you now, in terms of doing some testing earlier and with a few different scenarios?
[16:41] <rickspencer3> should we have a call or something?
[16:41] <rickspencer3> or a specific irc meeting for this topic?
[16:42] <ara> rickspencer3, either is fine
[16:42] <rickspencer3> who here is interested in joining me in this discussion?
[16:42] <rickspencer3> (question for everyone, not just Canonical staff)
[16:42] <tseliot> seb128: /etc/modprobe.d/lrm-video shouldn't exist any more. But (unfortunately) the file is not removed because it used to live in /etc...
[16:42] <pitti> o/
[16:43]  * rickspencer3 cues cricket noises
[16:43] <seb128> tseliot, right, need to preinst clean it
[16:43] <rickspencer3> ara, thanks so much for your engagement so far on this
[16:43] <seb128> rickspencer3, can do ;-)
[16:43] <tseliot> seb128: hopefully only in nvidia-common instead of doing the same thing in each driver
[16:44] <rickspencer3> I'll follow up with you to discuss next steps
[16:44] <ara> rickspencer3, sure, thanks!
[16:44] <rickspencer3> ara, sound ok?
[16:44] <rickspencer3> great
[16:44] <rickspencer3> ok, moving on, or any last thoughts wrt upgrade testing?
[16:44] <pitti> tseliot: if that's a dep of all of them, cleaning up in -common is fine
[16:44] <tseliot> pitti: yep
[16:44]  * rickspencer3 has lost control of the meeting
[16:44] <pitti> rickspencer3: would be interesting to have mvo in the call
[16:45] <rickspencer3> aaah
[16:45] <rickspencer3> pitti, ack
[16:45] <rickspencer3> good idea
[16:45] <pitti> rickspencer3: since he runs the automatic upgrade testing machinery
[16:45] <tseliot> pitti: actually all of the modaliases depend on nvidia-common
[16:45] <rickspencer3> yeah
[16:45] <rickspencer3> ok, back to the agenda ...
[16:45] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, partner update?
[16:45] <kenvandine> ok
[16:46] <kenvandine> hopefully things are quieting down from DX, shifting to bug fix mode
[16:46] <kenvandine> OLS just landed the rb plugin for the music store and libubuntuone, and seeded to the CD
[16:46] <kenvandine> however the store isn't actually live yet, but will be by alpha-3
[16:46] <rickspencer3> kewl
[16:46] <kenvandine> all the "go live bits" should be server side
[16:47] <kenvandine> so no more changes on the desktop before going live, we think
[16:47] <kenvandine> ubuntuone-client no longer provides the applet, but just a preferences tool
[16:47] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, so it sounds like A3 is substantially what Ubuntu will be at release?
[16:47] <rickspencer3> oops, sorry, thought you were done
[16:47] <kenvandine> there is more of a control panel in the works, which will land after alpha-3 pending a FFE
[16:47] <kenvandine> :)
[16:48] <kenvandine> there is still a question on how you get feedback/notifications on the state of U1 file syncing
[16:48] <rickspencer3> hehe
[16:48] <kenvandine> without the applet, you really how no status
[16:48] <kenvandine> which was planned for the Me Menu
[16:48] <kenvandine> but didn't make it
[16:48] <kenvandine> that's all i have
[16:49] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, I logged a but on that am talking to design team about fixing that last point
[16:49] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, great
[16:49] <rickspencer3> I wonder if we can just cut the control panel and bug fix from here on out
[16:49] <kenvandine> i bet pitti and seb128 are glad the applet is gone though :)
[16:49] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to bring up stopping new work with statik
[16:49] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i think there are parts of that that are important
[16:49] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, ack
[16:49] <pitti> it's not really a benchmark thing (since U1 is off by default), but it's still a CPU killer
[16:50] <kenvandine> yeah, bring it up with statik
[16:50] <pitti> so it's nice for power consumption, etc.
[16:50] <rickspencer3> but shipping is a feature, and shipping solid code is a great feature ;)
[16:50] <kenvandine> pitti, indeed.. pgraner had some interesting stats on that at the sprint
[16:50] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, yup :)
[16:50] <rickspencer3> pitti, yeah, the new design just needs a tweak here and there and will be much lighter in terms of UI and other overhead
[16:50] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
[16:50] <pitti> the sync daemon is pretty much the death for any battery anyway, though :)
[16:51] <rickspencer3> Riddell, Kubuntu?
[16:51] <kenvandine> pitti, pgraner did some benchmarking... quite scary
[16:51] <kenvandine> :/
[16:51] <Riddell>  * generally in a good position for feature freeze
[16:51] <Riddell>  * Qt 4.6.2 now packaged, will be uploaded after alpha freeze
[16:51] <Riddell>  * KOffice 2 also packaged, will be uploaded after alpha freeze
[16:51] <Riddell>  * Mozilla approved the KDE integration patches to firefox, asac reviewing for inclusion
[16:51] <Riddell>  * Kubuntu Netbook Remix now in a working state for Lucid
[16:51] <Riddell>  * CDs no longer oversized, yay
[16:51] <Riddell>  * kdebindings not compiling on ARM (the important bits do compile so we can just work around the unimportant bits)
[16:51] <Riddell>  * ubiquity currently has some bugs, at least one blocking alpha 3
[16:51] <Riddell>  * RC bugs http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9
[16:51] <Riddell>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo
[16:51] <pitti> Riddell: oh, nice! how long did you sqeeze the CDs until they fit? :)
[16:52] <rickspencer3> hehe
[16:52] <asac> the review of kde changes looks good
[16:52] <rickspencer3> thanks Riddell
[16:52] <Riddell> pitti: some gnome stuff had crept on so we threw that out and we cut out some artwork that wasn't vital
[16:52] <asac> will go up after a3 ... Riddell: will take care of FFed?
[16:53] <rickspencer3> always a pleasure to see the awesome work of the Kubuntu team, you guys rock
[16:53] <Riddell> asac: great. yes I can
[16:53] <rickspencer3> asac, Riddell when we have a new mozilla maintainer next week, I will ask him to engage with the KDE mozilla stuff
[16:54] <rickspencer3> Riddell, thanks
[16:54] <rickspencer3> moving on ...
[16:54] <rickspencer3> oops
[16:54] <rickspencer3> forgot to put in mozilla status
[16:54] <rickspencer3> ccheney, how is the the new support model work going?
[16:55] <asac> from what i know ccheney is quite close to get epiphany done
[16:55] <ccheney> rickspencer3: got the first pass of soup and glib done, working on webkit now
[16:55] <rickspencer3> asac, overall is the project on track schedule wise?
[16:55] <ccheney> first pass meaning when i get to higher levels things might turn up, but they seem to work as is currently
[16:55] <asac> rickspencer3: as much as it can be ...
[16:56] <asac> the staging happens here: https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ffox35/+packages
[16:56] <asac> (sorry for reuse of ppa name)
[16:56] <asac> we have about one month to get the high risk apps done now
[16:56] <rickspencer3> ug
[16:56] <asac> with epiphany being the most important one
[16:56] <rickspencer3> given how long the glib/soup thing took, that sounds at risk to me
[16:57] <asac> rickspencer3: well, epiphany is special
[16:57] <asac> its a backport to a new library
[16:57] <asac> the others are just forward porting to xulrunner-1.9.2 and we already have a few done ... with more coming every day
[16:57] <rickspencer3> ok
[16:57] <asac> the high risks are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel/xulrunner-list at the bottom
[16:58] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to follow up on new mozilla support model work offline so he can sleep tonight
[16:58] <asac> good
[16:58] <rickspencer3> thanks asac and ccheney
[16:58] <rickspencer3> moving on
[16:58] <rickspencer3> release status
[16:58]  * rickspencer3 hands mic to pitti
[16:58] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-3.html
[16:59] <pitti> so, we are pretty good for alpha-3, great job team!
[16:59] <pitti> pretty much the only thing that's left is boot performance
[16:59] <pitti> which is what I wanted to discuss a bit
[16:59] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100223.1-max-netbook.png
[16:59] <rickspencer3> !
[16:59] <pitti> current state of the art
[16:59] <pitti> I have to say that this is a very "lucky" chart
[17:00] <pitti> usually they look like http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100223-max-netbook.png , with a huge "dent" in teh CPU bar at the end
[17:00] <pitti> we have one remaining thing in the pipe (drop notify-osd startup on boot)
[17:00] <pitti> but then that's pretty much what we can do with sane amount of efforts
[17:00] <pitti> clearly we didn't reach "10 s" in the current state
[17:00] <pitti> so my question is, how much further do we need to push this?
[17:01] <pitti> I had a look at optimizing udisks, and there might be some doable things there, but we need to start it
[17:01] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to follow up with robbiew on startup time targets
[17:01] <pitti> and I don't know of anything obvious any more which we can drop or defer
[17:02] <ccheney> pitti: so there is 3s difference between reboots, or just how the install happens to lay it out on disk or what exactly?
[17:02] <pitti> unless anyone has a bright idea still?
[17:02] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 great job!!
[17:02] <seb128> thanks
[17:02] <pitti> ccheney: no, there were a couple of package updates in between
[17:02] <ccheney> pitti: oh ok
[17:02] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100222-1.png
[17:02] <pitti> I'd say this is a typical chart
[17:02] <robbiew> rickspencer3: I'm fine with stopping after notify-osd work...for boot perf
[17:03] <seb128> pitti, no plymouth
[17:03] <pitti> I have an idea how to fix the dent at the end, but it involves bad hackery
[17:03] <seb128> ?
[17:03] <pitti> and the DX team doesn't like that
[17:03] <pitti> seb128: right, plymouth is terminally broken on my mini
[17:03] <pitti> I need to uninstall it to work with it at all
[17:03]  * tseliot cough cough
[17:03] <rickspencer3> everyone stop talking!!
[17:03] <rickspencer3> didn't you see what robbiew just said
[17:03] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:03] <pitti> :)
[17:03] <seb128> ;-)
[17:03] <robbiew> lol
[17:03] <rickspencer3> j/k
[17:04] <pitti> so, I think we can do some remaining thing and get a consistent 12 s
[17:04] <pitti> with 11 on lucky cases
[17:04] <pitti> another thing
[17:04] <rickspencer3> that's a *real* 12 s right?
[17:04] <didrocks> that's celebration day, so. End of bootspeed fight? ;)
[17:04] <pitti> bootchart itself has 8% overhead
[17:04] <rickspencer3> not under magical never actually achieved circumstances
[17:04] <rickspencer3> didrocks, not quite, but soon
[17:04] <pitti> i. e. if bootchart says 11 s, it's 10.3 without boot chart
[17:04] <pitti> robbiew: ^
[17:04] <robbiew> sorry to barge in...just saying that given where we are at in the release cycle, we shouldn't be doing any invasive changes to meet bootspeed targets
[17:04] <rickspencer3> thanks robbiew
[17:04] <pitti> rickspencer3: Scott's charts are the bare, brutal reality
[17:05] <pitti> no hacks at all
[17:05] <rickspencer3> you didn't barge in, we summoned you
[17:05] <pitti> clean install
[17:05] <seb128> didrocks, I would say fight just start, we need to stay there ;-)
[17:05] <pitti> robbiew: do you know how much I love you for saying that?
[17:05] <rickspencer3> pitti, I was referring to certain other demos that show fast boot by other distros ;)
[17:05] <pitti> lol
[17:05] <robbiew> do you know how much I love you for the work you've done with work item tracker :P
[17:05]  * rickspencer3 doesn't want to start trolling other communities
[17:05] <pitti> we got 59 work items done for this!
[17:05] <pitti> and 3 in progress
[17:06] <rickspencer3> robbiew, be careful what you ask for, the desktop team will actually do it!
[17:06]  * rickspencer3 sinff
[17:06] <kenvandine> :)
[17:06] <pitti> ok, so I consider optimizing udisks as a hobby thing
[17:06] <pitti> (it's strange, it only started to eat so much CPU recently; nothing serious changed since that in udisks itself)
[17:06] <rickspencer3> pitti, based on my experience that means we can expect to see it in the distro on Monday?
[17:07] <rickspencer3> j/k
[17:07] <pitti> rickspencer3: absolutely
[17:07] <rickspencer3> pitti, thanks for the update
[17:07] <pitti> rickspencer3: libnotify is in the desktop PPA
[17:07] <pitti> just blocked by the A3 freeze
[17:07] <rickspencer3> so pursuant to robbiew's point
[17:07] <pitti> and nm-applet/g-p-m are in the works
[17:07] <seb128> pitti, soft freeze, just upload ;-)
[17:07] <rickspencer3> what work items do we have for post A3?
[17:07]  * rickspencer3 would he happy to see an empty list here
[17:07] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
[17:07] <pitti> 2/3 of it is "DX integration" (hello kenvandine)
[17:07] <seb128> urg
[17:07] <kenvandine> hehe
[17:08] <rickspencer3> right
[17:08] <rickspencer3> so the other 1/3
[17:08] <pitti> most bits are just stragglers from alpha-3 (some cleanup, wirting docs, QA)
[17:08] <rickspencer3> can we cut those?
[17:08] <qense> wasn't the red part supposed to become smaller? :O
[17:08] <rickspencer3> ah, that kind of stuff
[17:08] <pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gdmsetup
[17:08] <rickspencer3> cut
[17:08] <pitti> that's a target of opportunity, seb128's pet project
[17:08] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:08] <pitti> and I'd really like to see it
[17:08] <pitti> with an afternoon's work we can make a huge difference there
[17:08] <rickspencer3> ok, but we can't have our cake and eat it too
[17:09] <pitti> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-language-selector
[17:09] <seb128> I just need to stop sleeping
[17:09] <seb128> ;-)
[17:09] <pitti> I added that one as well as a target of opportunity
[17:09] <didrocks> oh, seb128's stole on my done WI on gdmsetup :-)
[17:09] <rickspencer3> I'm not saying "no" but an afternoon's work is one or two bugs fixed
[17:09]  * didrocks runs and cries ;)
[17:09] <pitti> seb128: "ToP"; if it's not done, it's not done
[17:09]  * pitti desperately points to the "Low" priority
[17:09] <rickspencer3> and bug fixes can push ToP out of the release
[17:09] <pitti> absolutely
[17:09] <pitti> sorry, "ToO" actually :)
[17:10] <seb128> didrocks, if you want some WIs I can give you some too...
[17:10] <pitti> rickspencer3:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html is really nice, though :)
[17:10] <rickspencer3> ok, but just be aware that any new work is a direct trade for quality
[17:10] <pitti> "how precise can you draw a bar to 3.0000000 work items"
[17:10] <didrocks> seb128: well, as a pet project gdmsetup can be fun ;)
[17:10] <rickspencer3> heh
[17:11] <rickspencer3> ok, I'll get off my soapbox now
[17:11] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:11] <rickspencer3> pitti, done?
[17:11] <pitti> done
[17:11] <pitti> other than that, bug hunting time!
[17:11] <pitti> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/lucid-fixes-report.html
[17:11] <rickspencer3> pitti, thank you ... you have done an amazing job navigating the team through a huge amount of work this cycle
[17:11] <rickspencer3> really remarkable leadership
[17:11] <pitti> we need to crank the number to >= 5000
[17:11]  * rickspencer3 does little solute
[17:11] <pitti> *blush*
[17:12] <rickspencer3> pitti, nice list, let's crash qa.ubuntu because it can't handle how big the list will get!
[17:12] <seb128> pitti, I just closed a bunch of desktop-lucid-dx-integration beta-1 items
[17:12] <pitti> seb128: yay you
[17:12] <seb128> the blueprint has things which were already done, like compiz changes and some dx tasks
[17:12] <pitti> rickspencer3: ... or firefox :)
[17:12] <rickspencer3> hehe
[17:13] <rickspencer3> ok, moving on, one last quick topic, from me
[17:13] <rickspencer3> mvo has brought into being the Featured category for software-center
[17:13] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell made a great suggestion for how to fill it up
[17:13] <rickspencer3> here are my thoughts, please comment ...
[17:14] <rickspencer3> rickspencer3 starts a blueprint
[17:14] <rickspencer3> define ideal number of featured apps
[17:14] <rickspencer3> define criteria for featured apps
[17:14] <rickspencer3> Is a GUI app
[17:14] <rickspencer3> Does not replace a default app
[17:14] <rickspencer3> Does not replace another featured app
[17:14] <rickspencer3> Is well designed for the task and robust - makes the platform look good
[17:14] <rickspencer3> solicit suggestions from blueprint
[17:14] <rickspencer3> desktop team goes through list and picks
[17:14] <rickspencer3> oops, lost the formatting
[17:14] <pitti> things like...
[17:14] <pitti> GIMP!!!
[17:14] <rickspencer3> the basic idea is that we get the community to suggest apps, and we go through and compare them to criteria and decide in this meeting
[17:14] <pitti> I suppose?
[17:14] <pitti> or inkscape?
[17:14] <didrocks> "Does not replace a default app" -> Abiword is already in the "featured" list and it replaces OOo
[17:15] <rickspencer3> didrocks, yeah, good point
[17:15] <rickspencer3> maybe that's not a great criteria
[17:15] <pitti> I actually like that criterion
[17:15] <rickspencer3> didrocks, maybe there should be a shade of meaning to it
[17:15] <seb128> didrocks, the current list is random pick from mvo right now
[17:15] <pitti> one of Ubuntu's founding principles is to select the best app for one purpose, after all
[17:15] <mvo> I just put abiword  in because gimp was lonely
[17:15] <seb128> just to have something there
[17:15]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[17:15] <rickspencer3> like abi is a work processor, and writer is a word processor, but they don't replace each other
[17:15] <mvo> I'm fine with whatever policy we come up with :)
[17:16] <seb128> mvo, great work!
[17:16] <pitti> mvo: inkscape would be a great addition, I think
[17:16]  * pitti cheers and hugs mvo
[17:16]  * rickspencer3 would bring up that mvo has also added PPAs to software-center but doesn't want to derail the meeting
[17:16] <jcastro> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~b-sides/b-sides/trunk/annotate/head:/minimal-all <-- I started a list here
[17:16] <jcastro> there is some crack there but a bunch of those meet your criteria
[17:16] <pitti> b-sides, awesome!
[17:16] <rickspencer3> pitti, seb128 thoughts on me starting a blueprint for this?
[17:16] <jcastro> we are talking about "fifth toe" like apps like from back in the day
[17:16] <seb128> rickspencer3, +1
[17:17] <rickspencer3> seems like the right place to discuss and get feedback on a "feature"
[17:17] <didrocks> I mostly agree with abiword being there. Just point the "replace" this. I don't know how to say "don't replace completely a default app" or "have a different targeted audience"?
[17:17] <seb128> rickspencer3, blueprint, wikipage, as you want
[17:17] <pitti> rickspencer3: keeping a list in a wiki page seems better, but I don't mind much
[17:17] <rickspencer3> seb128, I'll go blueprint, seems more "official"
[17:17] <seb128> ok
[17:17] <pitti> with BP we'll have WIs
[17:17]  * mvo hugs jcastro for the name
[17:17] <rickspencer3> I have an idea, I'll take care of it
[17:17] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:17] <LaserJock> could brainstorm be used for this app review?
[17:17] <seb128> wiki makes easier to keep track of who changes what to
[17:17] <jcastro> mvo: the reason I didn't push b-sides as a project was that I knew it would come handy in software center some day.
[17:18] <mvo> heh :)
[17:18] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to start blueprint to define criteria and associated wiki page to capture list of Featured apps
[17:18] <seb128> ;-)
[17:18] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[17:18] <pitti> lucid rocks
[17:19] <pitti> (once we get plymouth fixed *cough*)
[17:19] <bryceh> rickspencer3, I think you have to exclude abiword
[17:19] <tseliot> :-)
[17:19] <rickspencer3> bryceh, because it's in Universe?
[17:19] <bryceh> if there start being exceptions to "does not replace..." then the peanut gallery is going to start requesting alternatives for >everything<
[17:19] <rickspencer3> bryceh, right, we'll have to define it carefully
[17:19] <rickspencer3> I
[17:20] <LaserJock> so TBird is out? :-)
[17:20] <didrocks> so, no vlc as well?
[17:20] <rickspencer3> m thinking of including Use Case or something
[17:20] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[17:20] <rickspencer3> good points
[17:20] <didrocks> that's the issue with popular softwares ;)
[17:20] <bryceh> there's plenty of good apps out there
[17:20] <kenvandine> hehe
[17:20] <rickspencer3> I just don't think we need 5 photo organizers, tbh
[17:20] <jcastro> right
[17:20] <jcastro> it should be "the rest of the disc"
[17:20] <rickspencer3> that was the one that concerned me the most
[17:20] <bryceh> it's good that we're defining one complete set that is our opinion of "the best collection"
[17:21] <rickspencer3> how about "no more than 1 replacement app"?
[17:21] <rickspencer3> let's call the meeting done, but continue this discussion as desired?
[17:21] <rickspencer3> pitti, sound ok?
[17:21] <bryceh> rickspencer3, stay firm :-)
[17:21] <jcastro> apps that would be awesome to have but might be too corner case or not enough room. A person should be able to select them all and install them and have a better ubuntu overall, not more mp3 players, etc.
[17:21] <seb128> I would say 0 duplicate
[17:21] <bryceh> I really hate open office, but I do think this is the right way to go
[17:21] <LaserJock> perhaps "if it is a replacment app it should have a distinguising use case" or something
[17:21]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:21] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'd rather have no replacement apps at first, TBH
[17:21] <pitti> but let's see how the lists turn out
[17:21] <seb128> pitti, ++
[17:22] <rickspencer3> ok, so no tbird, no abiword
[17:22] <pitti> we can categorize them by "replacement app" and "entirely new crack"
[17:22] <jcastro> rickspencer3: these are the criteria I used: http://castrojo.wordpress.com/2009/11/28/attack-of-the-killer-bs/
[17:22] <didrocks> 0 seems good as well to me, just be careful and prepared to have a lot of "why xxx isn't there as it's more famous than default app" (like vlc)
[17:22] <rickspencer3> but also no (list of music players, list of photo organizers)
[17:22]  * rickspencer3 looks
[17:22] <bryceh> didrocks, that's fine, and it's another kind of discussion and a good one to have
[17:23]  * mvo will split this out into its own source package "app-install-data-featured" owned by ~ubuntu-core-dev
[17:23] <didrocks> bryceh: I'm not afraid of the discussion, just by the number of duplicates of this discussion we will have ;) But well, thinking about it, it makes full sense to have 0 duplicate
[17:23] <rickspencer3> jcastro, thanks, your criteria makes sense
[17:23] <rickspencer3> we need to phrase the no dupes correctly
[17:24] <rickspencer3> because afterall you can edit photos with f-spot, so why include Gimp?
[17:24] <pitti> FSVO "edit"
[17:24] <rickspencer3> (obviously we should include the gimp imo)
[17:24] <rickspencer3> FSVO?
[17:24] <pitti> "250 times the number of features" != "replacement" :)
[17:24] <bryceh> rickspencer3, or that owriter can edit text files just as good as gedit ;-)
[17:24] <rickspencer3> hehe
[17:25] <pitti> rickspencer3: "for some value of"
[17:25] <didrocks> bryceh: let's remove OOo then :)
[17:25] <didrocks> bryceh: oupsss, already tried ;)
[17:25] <bryceh> didrocks, okay!
[17:25] <ccheney> heh
[17:25] <pitti> bryceh: svgalib can draw rectangles as well as X can
[17:25] <pitti> *cough*
[17:25] <bryceh> pitti, wayland ftw
[17:25] <jcastro> we'll need to phrase it carefully so we don't end up with alternate docks and tweak apps and other crack
[17:25] <jcastro> otherwise people will start filing bugs on things we can't support
[17:25] <seb128> they do that all the time
[17:26] <bryceh> lol
[17:26] <jcastro> "I got this XML optimizer and my gconf file is a mess!"
[17:26] <rickspencer3> ok, so I think "does not substantially overlap existing functionality", "does not add significant amounts of new functionality"
[17:26] <seb128> they will not stop because you write a guideline
[17:26] <pitti> good thing we have a "wontfix" button
[17:26] <pitti> rickspencer3: that sounds good
[17:26] <jcastro> seb128: yeah but we shouldn't encourage that in software-center I think
[17:26] <pitti> rickspencer3: i. e. "gimp in", "banshee out"?
[17:26] <rickspencer3> but the overall point is that Featured "adds" apps to your desktop, does not replace existing apps
[17:26] <bryceh> seb128, I guess the reasoning is to have something documented to point to when we say "no"
[17:26] <seb128> right
[17:27] <seb128> rickspencer3, ""does not add significant amounts of new functionality"" ... -not?
[17:27] <rickspencer3> seb128, what do you think about the idea of the desktop team being the arbiters of the list, determining what is in and out"?
[17:27] <seb128> rickspencer3, makes sense
[17:27] <rickspencer3> Us being anyone who shows up to the desktop team meetings regularly
[17:27] <pitti> it's basically an extension of the seeds
[17:27] <seb128> we are already doing that for the default desktop
[17:28] <rickspencer3> ok, I think I know what to do
[17:28] <rickspencer3> and there will be a blueprint to discuss
[17:28] <pitti> mvo: actually, could we handle that in the seeds, or does it need to be maintained somewhere else?
[17:28] <rickspencer3> mvo, are you happy with that?
[17:28] <rickspencer3> looks like a break at the hack fest :)
[17:28] <seb128> lol
[17:29] <mvo> pitti: of course you can maintain this featured package
[17:29] <pitti> mvo: ah, it's a package of .desktop files?
[17:29] <tgpraveen12> is the me menu supposed to show me my pic beside my name when the menu is clicked? because currently it only shows the defaul pic holder picture
[17:29] <mvo> pitti: its just a menu file in menu.d
[17:29] <tgpraveen12> is that known?
[17:29] <mvo> pitti: app-install/menu.d
[17:30] <jcastro> tgpraveen12: known bug
[17:30] <mvo> rickspencer3: I'm fine with whatever policy you/your team comes up with
[17:30] <rickspencer3> mvo, <3
[17:30] <pitti> mvo: I see, danke
[17:30] <rickspencer3> mvo - thanks so much for the PPA access in the software-center
[17:30] <rickspencer3> !
[17:30] <rickspencer3> I think it works really nicely
[17:30] <jcastro> yeah mvo that is /sweet/
[17:30] <mvo> :)
[17:31] <rickspencer3> so now you can install apps from PPAs totally graphically!!
[17:31]  * mvo is happy, kudos to tremolux who did most of the work
[17:31] <rickspencer3> thanks tremolux!!
[17:31] <pitti> rickspencer3: EOM?
[17:32] <bryceh> can't wait to use it
[17:32] <rickspencer3> pitti, yeah, a while ago
[17:32] <rickspencer3> I thought I said like twice :/
[17:32] <kenvandine> hehe
[17:32] <kenvandine> :)
[17:32] <pitti> thanks everyone
[17:32] <rickspencer3> thank you pitti
[17:32]  * pitti -> sister's 30th birthday party
[17:32] <rickspencer3> and great job on boot time
[17:32] <pitti> I'm off for tonight then
[17:32] <rickspencer3> pitti, are you going to give her Ubuntu for her birthday?
[17:32] <seb128> pitti, enjoy
[17:32] <rickspencer3> I can get you a good deal on a disc
[17:33] <pitti> rickspencer3: doesn't work, she's already using it :)
[17:33]  * ccheney bbia running to store for medicine
[17:33] <pitti> although Jaunty
[17:33] <pitti> I only see her three times a year, and her computer even less often
[17:33] <rickspencer3> well, when she sees SFTS features, she'll want Lucid
[17:33] <kenvandine> :)
[17:33] <rickspencer3> bye bye pitti
[17:33] <baptistemm> mvo, if you can comment on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/bluez/+bug/519357
[17:51] <LaserJock> any empathy gurus around?
[17:56] <chrisccoulson> kenvandine - all of the presence items in the me menu are insensitive when i open empathy at the moment (so I can't change my presence status), but they become sensitive if i restart the panel. is that an issue you're aware of?
[17:56] <chrisccoulson> or perhaps i broke something here? ;)
[17:59] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: the gpm bug you discussed was with Alt + 7, right?
[17:59] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - you might have to remind me which bug ;)
[17:59] <chrisccoulson> gpm has a lot of them....
[18:00] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: I just remembered you were testing keycode
[18:00] <seb128> LaserJock, you should just ask tour question
[18:00] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - ah, that was for the display-mode switching (Fn+F8), which is handled by g-s-d
[18:00] <chrisccoulson> on my laptop, the combination produces the same scancode as the "p" key
[18:00] <Nafai> chrisccoulson, I'm seeing something similar (well, I haven't tried resetarting the panel, but presense isn't showing up)
[18:01] <chrisccoulson> Nafai - thanks. so it's not just me then ;)
[18:01] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: oh ok, not that one so, I have now a strange behavior with Alt + 7 (which is used to switch window on weechat, for instance ;))
[18:01] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - what behaviour do you see?
[18:02] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: it's drawing some kind of square as when you didn't release Alt+tab around the focused window
[18:03] <chrisccoulson> is that alt+7 or alt+f7?
[18:03] <didrocks> Alt + 7
[18:03] <chrisccoulson> hmm, i'm not sure about that. that's not handled by anything on my laptop
[18:03] <didrocks> (with the shift modifier in an azerty keyboard to get the 7) ;)
[18:04] <didrocks> we'll see tomorrow, that's not my laptop day btw, starting with a nvidia crash, and so on :)
[18:05] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - you use nvidia?
[18:05] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: right, the blob driver
[18:06] <vish> seb128: could you have a look at Bug #526599 , does it have enough info for the gnome-keyring bug?
[18:07] <chrisccoulson> vish - you might need to subscribe people to that. it's got nobody subscribed to it yet
[18:07] <chrisccoulson> did you just submit it now via apport?
[18:07] <LaserJock> seb128: I'm trying to get advice on bug #526593 which I just filed. I don't know if it's empathy's fault or telepathy or ?
[18:08] <vish> chrisccoulson: i wasnt able to run full gdb :s , i just submitted it now.
[18:08] <seb128> LaserJock, you can try asking #telepathy
[18:08] <seb128> vish, can you subscribe me to the bug?
[18:08] <LaserJock> seb128: ok
[18:08] <seb128> vish, it has not been retraced yet I don't have access
[18:09] <vish> seb128: try now , just sub'd you
[18:09] <seb128> vish, thanks
[18:09] <vish> np..
[18:10] <seb128> vish, is your password in the stacktrace?
[18:24] <kenvandine> seb128, working on empathy... patch isn't building, should have it fixed soon
[18:26] <seb128> kenvandine, ok thanks
[18:34] <seb128> kenvandine, what update is supposed to add an icon to the ubuntu one store?
[18:34] <seb128> kenvandine, but I still don't have one there
[18:34] <kenvandine> humm
[18:34] <kenvandine> the one you sponsored for me
[18:35] <kenvandine> 0.0.2-0ubuntu2
[18:35] <kenvandine> i think
[18:35] <kenvandine> yup
[18:35] <seb128> oh, let me try that
[18:35] <seb128> I didn't actually build this one, just looked at the diff and uploaded
[18:36] <seb128> I though the fix was in yesterday's one
[18:38] <ArneGoetje> bzr unshelve
[18:38] <ArneGoetje> wrong window...
[18:39] <seb128> kenvandine, ok works
[18:39] <seb128> kenvandine, sorry for the noise ;-)
[18:39] <kenvandine> np :)
[18:40] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i will work on that gpm and gsd fix now, but it's probably too late for a3 isn't it?
[18:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, soft freeze, we might squeeze those
[18:40] <seb128> chrisccoulson, thanks
[18:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I didn't manage to do gsd today sorry
[18:41] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i think we can wait. if it was going to cause any crashes, people would probably have reported it by now
[18:41] <seb128> I always make plans for the day and keep adding stuff
[18:41] <chrisccoulson> and i checked through all the latest crash reports today
[18:41] <seb128> and never get everything I wanted done finished ;-)
[18:41] <chrisccoulson> heh ;)
[18:42] <jcastro> whoever does g-s-d there is a pending patch for app indicators too!
[18:42]  * jcastro tries to sneak in the planet
[18:43] <ArneGoetje> seb128, kenvandine: I have a problem with gdm... cannot login anymore... :( When clicking on my username or hitting enter, gdm refreshes the screen and displays the same screen again. Then I select my username again and the bottom bat with the language selection and stuff appears, but there is no password field where I could enter my password... just a cancel button... :( Any idea?
[18:43] <chrisccoulson> jcastro - that depends on quite a large libgnomekbs patch doesn't it?
[18:43]  * jcastro whistles
[18:43] <chrisccoulson> that's going to take some reviewing ;)
[18:43] <chrisccoulson> probably best to wait for after a3 for that one
[18:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes
[18:45] <seb128> jcastro, we might be able to squeeze gnome-bluetooth or vino in ;-)
[18:45] <seb128> are those ready?
[18:45] <jcastro> he's going as fast as he can
[18:45] <seb128> no hurry
[18:45] <chrisccoulson> is there any more appindicator work left to do?
[18:45] <jcastro> I told him to not hurry
[18:45] <seb128> I just didn't check emails today
[18:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes but help on reviewing things first would be welcome
[18:46] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: a few more. gnome-bt, vino, brasero should be ready today/tomorrow (probably post a3)
[18:46] <seb128> we have people writting code now
[18:46] <seb128> but be block on reviewing
[18:46] <jcastro> after that gnome-1-polkit is all, after that it's stuff in main but not on the CD, so those will be opportunistic
[18:47] <jcastro> and fixing gnome-cc is still on the list to fix
[18:47] <seb128> what is broken there?
[18:47] <jcastro> but it's mostly done and in lucid already
[18:47] <jcastro> the display properties checbox
[18:47] <bryceh> james_w, you are brilliant. thanks
[18:47] <jcastro> doesn't use GtkStatusIcon so it never showed up until I went through the app and found it
[18:48] <jcastro> seb128: the icon that has the green/pink things in it for display stuff
[18:48] <chrisccoulson> jcastro - that's gnome-settings-daemon
[18:48] <jcastro> is it?
[18:48] <jcastro> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/497875
[18:48] <jcastro> is that bug
[18:49] <chrisccoulson> that's just for the keyboard indicator stuff?
[18:49] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: whichever one does "display preferences"
[18:50] <james_w> bryceh: \o/
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> jcastro - the display preferences is part of gnome-cc, but the status icon is drawn by the xrandr plugin in g-s-d
[18:50] <jcastro> Nafai: you found where that display icon was being done right?
[18:50] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: ah ok.
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> the xrandr icon is a difficult one to port
[18:50] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: after he finishes brasero, vino, and gnome-bt that will be next on his list
[18:50] <dobey> vish: ping
[18:51] <vish> dobey: pong
[18:51] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: if it's hard maybe we should ask jpetersen to start on it immediately?
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> jcastro - the issue is when you open the menu, g-s-d draws an identifier label on each screen, so you know which screen you're adjusting
[18:52] <jcastro> right
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> but i don't think appindicator supports that
[18:52] <dobey> vish: can you change the emblem-ubuntuone-unsynchronized in Humanity to be actually different than the -synchronizing one?
[18:52]  * vish checks what the icon is
[18:53] <dobey> vish: i think it's two gray arrows, while synchronizing is the same two arrows with colors
[18:54] <vish> dobey: ah , those were the icons you sent me earlier to be included in the theme [i think]
[18:54] <vish> isnt it -updating  , btw?
[18:54] <dobey> no
[18:54] <dobey> vish: this is the emblems, not the panel status icons
[18:54] <dobey> (the panel status icons can be removed even)
[18:54] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - would you mind trying the gpm or gsd change once i've pushed them to bzr? I still can't reproduce those warnings here....
[18:55] <chrisccoulson> i must be very unlucky!
[18:55] <vish> dobey: ah ,right
[18:55] <vish> dobey: ok , i'll update them soon
[18:56] <dobey> vish: I suspect people are assuming that the grey arrows means that stuff is synchronizing, even though it isn't
[18:57] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: when ted gets back let's snag him and see what he says
[18:57] <dobey> vish: so having it be something visibly different would be useful. the same emblem in ubuntuone-client-gnome is a cloud with the red (X) on top
[18:57] <vish> yeah , quite misleadin
[18:57] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: maybe he'll have some insight on how to do it
[18:57] <chrisccoulson> jcastro - yeah, possibly
[18:57] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[18:57] <dobey> vish: thanks
[18:58] <vish> dobey: sure will fix it , bte , the name is now changed from emblem-ubuntuone-updating.svg , to -synchronizing.svg  ?
[18:58] <vish> btw*
[18:59] <dobey> vish: oh no, it's still -updating
[18:59] <vish> k..
[18:59] <dobey> vish: sorry. i just misremembered the name
[18:59] <vish> np..
[18:59] <jcastro> chrisccoulson: then we'll just add a comment to the g-s-d bug so when he wakes up tomorrow he'll know what to do
[19:00] <didrocks> rickspencer3: did you encounter the issue on bug #411788? You assigned it to me and it wasn't on my bug list for lucid as it's target 1. on jolicloud which isn't Ubuntu 2. jolicloud is based on jaunty netbook-launcher version, not karmic
[19:00] <rickspencer3> didrocks, no, I just saw it
[19:00] <rickspencer3> do with it as you will
[19:01] <didrocks> rickspencer3: jolicloud is not ubuntu and it's based on jaunty version, so, it's not even karmic ubuntu-launcher :) I'll just unassign
[19:01] <rickspencer3> thanks didrocks
[19:01] <didrocks> rickspencer3: don't know if you look at my activity report but I put the bug page in shape at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNE/lucid-bugs
[19:01] <Nafai> jcastro, Well, I found the code where the display settings was
[19:01] <didrocks> y/w :)
[19:02] <Nafai> jcastro, but I haven't looked at it closely
[19:02] <rickspencer3> didrocks, k
[19:02] <jcastro> Nafai: ok don't worry about it for now, concentrate on the three you have now and when ted comes back I'll figure it out and see about putting jpetersen on it
[19:03] <Nafai> ok
[19:03] <jcastro> gnome-bt on the panel for A3 would be sooooo nice.
[19:07]  * dobey wonders why people need a bluetooth icon on their panels
[19:09] <jcastro> dobey: to shut it off from sucking my battery. :p
[19:10] <dobey> ah
[19:10] <dobey> "to work around other problems in the system" :)
[19:30] <vish> dobey: when does the icon show up? when a sync fails or as soon as a file is added?
[19:31] <dobey> vish: the unsynchronized icon?
[19:31] <vish> yeah
[19:32] <dobey> vish: It should show up on a file whenever the file needs updating (either you just added it, or it changed remotely)
[19:32] <dobey> or it changed locally
[19:32] <vish> ah , thanks..
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> oh, pitti, it's not my gpm patch that makes notify-osd start at the beginning of the session
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> phew :)
[19:33] <chrisccoulson> it's the upstream notification code
[19:49] <rickspencer3> all ... nice little posting from a Mac switcher:
[19:49] <rickspencer3> http://www.starryhope.com/linux/ubuntu/2010/os-x-to-ubuntu-2-years-later/
[19:50] <rickspencer3> note the section on the Gimp for a real user's perspective on image editing
[19:50]  * rickspencer3 off to lunch/gym
[20:49] <seb128> bratsche, hi!
[20:49] <bratsche> Hey seb128
[20:50] <seb128> bratsche, I did upload your chromium csd fix this morning
[20:50] <seb128> bratsche, the awn bug seems a different one
[20:50] <seb128> could be similar to bug #524869?
[20:51] <bratsche> seb128: Did you upload my second patch?  The one with the one-liner fix in it?
[20:52] <bratsche> Because that one causes Chromium to have WM decorations when it shouldn't, and I think that's maybe the same problem awn has.
[20:52] <bratsche> Uhh.. I mean, the first patch causes that.  The second patch fixes it.
[20:52] <seb128> bratsche, yes
[20:52] <seb128> bratsche, 0ubuntu6 fixes the chromium issue
[20:52] <seb128> bratsche, cf bug #526589
[20:52] <bratsche> Oh, but awn still has an issue then?
[20:52] <bratsche> Ah
[20:53] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I identified the code in nm-applet as well; should be easy to fix
[20:53] <seb128> pitti, heh, aren't you supposed to be away tonight?
[20:54] <pitti> seb128: just returned
[20:54] <seb128> oh ok
[20:54] <seb128> pitti, pretend you didn't and enjoy your evening :p
[20:54] <pitti> it was the small kind of party, with parents and grandparents
[20:54] <seb128> I see
[20:54] <pitti> seb128: ah, I'm going to
[20:54] <seb128> ;-)
[20:54] <pitti> but I have this nm-applet/notify-osd thing in my head, y'know :)
[20:55] <seb128> btw did you look at how much difference my lazy icon loading change do?
[20:55] <seb128> I've been looking at recent charts but there is no cpu use near the line now
[20:56] <seb128> not sure why, I would expect the change to improve that but not to delete the cpu use
[20:56] <pitti> seb128: it's not easy to see
[20:56] <pitti> seb128: since the cutoff point is mostly before the point when nm-appplet connects these days
[20:56] <pitti> we've gotten too good :)
[20:57] <kenvandine> hehe
[20:57] <kenvandine> nice problem to have i guess
[20:57] <seb128> lol
[20:57] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks for empathy update ;-)
[20:57] <pitti> seb128: I hardly see that nm-applet blob at all any more, though
[20:57] <kenvandine> np
[20:57] <pitti> seb128: perhaps it's just entirely gone now?
[20:57] <seb128> pitti, ok, so the change seems to work fine ;-)
[20:57] <seb128> I was expecting it to cut most of the cpu use but still having some
[20:58] <seb128> maybe it was over what I was expecting and it's not noticable now
[20:58] <pitti> seb128: I have 9 charts on the mini, and on neither of them is that late CPU blib
[20:58] <pitti> blip
[20:58] <seb128> in any case I guess we can consider it fixed now
[20:58] <pitti> which seems to indicate that it's working perfectly :)
[20:58] <seb128> excellent ;-)
[20:58] <pitti> seb128: absolutely
[20:58] <pitti> the actual connection happens much much later here (needs to wait for password in keyring dialog)
[20:58] <pitti> that's why I don't see it at all any more, I suppose
[20:59] <seb128> I will try on a wired eth tomorrow
[20:59] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti - that's good that it's easy to fix
[20:59] <seb128> I plan to reinstall my mini tomorrow
[20:59] <pitti> seb128: look at this: http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100219.1-max-netbook.png
[20:59] <chrisccoulson> i'm just testing gpm now
[20:59] <pitti> seb128: it's clearly there
[20:59] <pitti> seb128: and nothing on this one: http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100223.1-max-netbook.png
[20:59] <pitti> chrisccoulson: nm-applet does a notify_init() and a capability query right in its constructor
[21:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm going to move the capability flag into a function which does lazy initialization
[21:00] <chrisccoulson> pitti - that's pretty much what gpm is doing too. but the return value of the capabilities are never used anywhere
[21:00] <chrisccoulson> so i just removed the whole check ;)
[21:01] <pitti> yay
[21:01] <chrisccoulson> excellent, that works
[21:01] <chrisccoulson> shall i wait until A3 before uploading now?
[21:02] <chrisccoulson> there's no urgency is there?
[21:02] <pitti> chrisccoulson: is it just that change? or did you have something else?
[21:02] <pitti> chrisccoulson: no urgency release-wise, just mentally getting rid of this topic :)
[21:03] <chrisccoulson> pitti - there's also a change which should fix a memory error, that i still can't recreate (bug 525220)
[21:03] <chrisccoulson> i can hold off until after we're unfrozen though, as it doesn't seem to cause any other issues
[21:03] <pitti> chrisccoulson: sounds good to me to upload; do you think it has a non-trivial regression potential?
[21:04] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, the regression potential is fairly minimal
[21:04] <pitti> chrisccoulson: go ahead then
[21:04] <seb128> yeah, upload
[21:05] <chrisccoulson> cool, thanks
[21:05] <pitti> thanks to you!
[21:06] <seb128> chrisccoulson, are you near of the computer with the menu issue btw?
[21:06] <pitti> asac: I'd like to do a small nm-applet patch; how do you want this handled? should I upload, push my branch somewhere and ask you to merge? or do you want to review/merge first before upload? or..?
[21:07] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i am. i'm on it at the moment
[21:08] <chrisccoulson> i'll take a look at that again later
[21:08] <seb128> ok
[21:08] <seb128> chrisccoulson, maybe start by local if there is any menu config in .config or .local
[21:08] <seb128> and if the menu editor have the same issue
[21:16] <kenvandine> seb128, that latest gtk patch you uploaded, does that make evo suck less?
[21:16] <kenvandine> because mine is indeed sucking less :)
[21:16] <seb128> kenvandine, yes, cody fixed the slowness issue
[21:17] <kenvandine> great
[21:17] <kenvandine> :)
[21:17] <kenvandine> it really is much better
[21:17] <seb128> see ;-)
[21:17]  * kenvandine is a much happier camper
[21:18]  * kenvandine hugs bratsche and seb128
[21:18] <seb128> still can't believe nobody noticed
[21:18]  * seb128 hugs bratsche and kenvandine
[21:18]  * ccheney found out he had to go to the doctor, no OTC stuff available, then he prescribed $18/pill medication not covered by insurance so waiting for it to be changed now :(
[21:19] <kenvandine> seb128, after you pointed it out... i really can't believe i didn't notice..
[21:19] <seb128> ;-)
[21:19] <seb128> anyway it's fixed now so all good
[21:20] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - gpm is just uploading now. do you want to sponsor the gsd upload too? (that has the same fix in as gpm)
[21:20] <seb128> chrisccoulson, sure!
[21:21] <chrisccoulson> thanks
[21:21] <seb128> thank you ;-)
[21:21] <baptistemm> chrisccoulson, did someone sayd you were awesome
[21:21] <chrisccoulson> baptistemm, thanks ;)
[21:25] <aquarius> hrm. All my windows are determined to have window decorations, even ones like chromium and guake which aren't supposed to. :)
[21:25] <seb128> aquarius, what libgtk2.0-0 version do you use?
[21:26] <aquarius> 2.19.5-1ubuntu6 according to dpkg
[21:26] <kklimonda> my evolution-data-server-2.28 is using a lot of cpu - does this backtrace from gdb attached to running eds make any sense: http://paste.ubuntu.com/382541/ ?
[21:26] <seb128> aquarius, did you restart your app since?
[21:27] <aquarius> heh. maybe I didn't restart after upgrading. that's a good point ;)
[21:27] <seb128> aquarius, could you try?
[21:29] <aquarius> ok, chromium now has no window decorations (hooray, and oops, I am stupid), but guake still does
[21:29] <seb128> aquarius, bug 524869
[21:29] <seb128> aquarius, bug #524869 I guess
[21:29] <seb128> ups
[21:30] <seb128> not sure what guake is
[21:30] <seb128> but that's the remaining known issue
[21:30] <aquarius> seb128, yeah, that's probably it. I'll go fill in some details
[21:30] <seb128> thanks
[21:43] <seb128> bratsche, wb
[21:43] <seb128> bratsche, aquarius has decorations issue with "quake" too
[21:43] <seb128> whatever that is
[21:43] <seb128> ups
[21:43] <seb128> "guake"
[21:43] <aquarius> guake. It's a drop-down terminal
[21:46] <chrisccoulson> guake looks pretty neat. i'm just installing it now ;)
[21:46]  * bratsche installs
[21:46] <bratsche> Uhh.
[21:46] <bratsche> I installed it, but it refuses to run.
[21:47] <aquarius> I love it to bits, to the point where if I'm on someone else's machine I get annoyed by not being able to drop down a terminal with F2. :)
[21:48] <bratsche> Oh I see.
[21:48] <pitti> asac: wrt. nm-applet, I reported that upstream (gnome bug 610881) and I'll send the git formatted patch there
[21:49] <bratsche> What's the pygtk equivalent to g_object_set()?
[21:54] <seb128> bratsche, gobject.set_properties()?
[21:54] <seb128> bratsche, http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygobject/class-gobject.html#method-gobject--set-property
[21:54] <aquarius> obj.set_property("use-markup", True) # or whatever
[21:55] <aquarius> or obj.props.use_markup = True # but I don't really understand .props and therefore don't trust it
[21:55] <bratsche> seb128: Yeah, I just found it.  Unfortunately apparently the property I need is a construct-only property.
[21:55] <bratsche> I guess I need to change that.
[21:56] <TheMuso> didrocks: Thanks for switching yelp back to xulrunner. The GNOME and Ubuntu  a11y community thanks you for it. :)
[21:57] <seb128> TheMuso, we had no strong opinion from the start, you should have raised it as a concern if that was one
[21:57] <seb128> TheMuso, we tried because debian did it and the gecko version had speed issues
[21:58] <seb128> TheMuso, we wouldn't have switched if somebody pointed there was a11y issues
[21:58] <seb128> well next time please ping when we break something
[21:58] <robert_ancell> didrocks, do you know much about omf files?  It looks like Mallard docs don't generate one
[21:58] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[21:58] <TheMuso> ok
[21:58] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[21:59] <seb128> robert_ancell, omf has,were used for indexing
[21:59] <TheMuso> seb128: I wasn't awawre we had switched until I was informed of it a day or so ago.
[21:59] <seb128> TheMuso, robert_ancell did that start of the cycle
[21:59] <robert_ancell> seb128, so it's obsolete now?
[21:59] <TheMuso> seb128: Ah ok.
[21:59] <robert_ancell> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=610806
[21:59] <seb128> robert_ancell, I'm not sure, that's one of the reason we did the 2.29 update today
[22:00] <seb128> robert_ancell, didrocks had been talking to shaum on IRC
[22:00] <seb128> not sure if the update fixes that though
[22:00] <seb128> or if that's a bug
[22:00] <robert_ancell> ok
[22:00] <seb128> would be worth trying if that's still an issue with today's update
[22:00] <pitti> ok, I got the nm-applet patch
[22:01] <pitti> seb128: since asac's already asleep, do you remember what you did for the nm-applet patch?
[22:01] <pitti> seb128: I submitted a git formatted patch upstream now, and would like to get it into our package as well now
[22:01] <pitti> hey robert_ancell, good morning
[22:01] <seb128> pitti, I pinged asac for sponsoring since they had other changes pending
[22:01] <robert_ancell> pitti, hey
[22:01] <pitti> robert_ancell: how are you these days? how's OEM land?
[22:02] <robert_ancell> pitti, hmm, I had a question for you last night... must remember before you go to bed...
[22:02] <seb128> robert_ancell, come back we need you there!
[22:02] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell can we do Eastern edition in 287 minutes?
[22:02] <robert_ancell> pitti, good, looking forward to getting back!
[22:02] <seb128> lol
[22:02]  * rickspencer3 needs to shower and fix up wiki
[22:02] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, sure
[22:02] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Almost 5 hours, sure if you are aroun. :p
[22:02] <seb128> rickspencer3, you forget to specify seconds? ;-)
[22:02] <TheMuso> around even
[22:02] <rickspencer3> seb128, lol
[22:03] <TheMuso> In other words, what should that time actually be? Looks like there is a typo there.
[22:03] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell I meant it to be 28 minutes
[22:03] <rickspencer3> but now it's 27 minutes
[22:03] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Right, that makes more sense. :D
[22:03]  * rickspencer3 should have used unix time stamp
[22:03] <kenvandine> hey pitti
[22:03] <TheMuso> lol
[22:04] <kenvandine> pitti, i have a patch for indicator-me that fixes the launcher for empathy accounts... 2.29.91 changed it from "empathy -a" to "empathy-accounts"
[22:04] <kenvandine> pitti, is that ok to upload?
[22:04]  * ccheney bbl, picking up medicine for real this time :-\
[22:05]  * ccheney needs the pain killers
[22:06] <pitti> kenvandine: sounds fine, go ahead
[22:06] <kenvandine> ok
[22:06] <kenvandine> thx
[22:06] <seb128> pitti, btw davidz rolled a gdu tarball now
[22:06] <TheMuso> seb128: thanks for doing gnome-media BTW.
[22:07] <pitti> seb128: wheeee!
[22:07] <seb128> TheMuso, you're welcome
[22:07] <seb128> pitti, ;-)
[22:07] <pitti> seb128: he still didn't release udisks, though
[22:08] <pitti> but gdu is the more important ABI here, so that's great
[22:08] <pitti> seb128: I'll update to the final version soon then
[22:09] <pitti> I can upload it to Debian git and experimental, and then sync to lucid after a3
[22:10] <seb128> pitti, do you have any opinion on bug #517698?
[22:12] <pitti> seb128: sounds reasonable to me, although low priority
[22:12] <seb128> pitti, the user opened a bunch of theme
[22:12] <seb128> them
[22:12] <seb128> we have several application installed by default doing that
[22:12] <seb128> could be worth looking at for some extra space
[22:13] <pitti> indeed
[22:27] <pitti> meh, now I'm one dput away from closing the startup-speed spec and my last WI
[22:27] <chrisccoulson> yay \o/
[22:27]  * chrisccoulson hugs pitti
[22:27] <pitti> I sent a MP for asac
[22:27] <pitti> but I'm not sure whether I should upload it now, or whether he wants to review first
[22:29] <pitti> screw it, I'll take the bullets
[22:29] <pitti> asac: would you mind merging https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~pitti/network-manager-applet/defer-notify-server-caps/+merge/20012 ?
[22:30] <pitti> asac: (or pulling, for cleaner history)
[22:31] <chrisccoulson> bryceh, thanks for your e-mail btw
[22:31] <chrisccoulson> i didn't realise we already had the XScreensaver patch in lucid
[22:32] <bryceh> chrisccoulson, yep
[22:33] <chrisccoulson> i will look at preparing a SRU for that when i get some time. but i'm a little nervous, considering the fragility of gnome-power-manager in this area at the moment ;)
[22:33] <pitti> kenvandine: "document the dbus api: TODO" -> that's the last alpha-3 WI for desktop now
[22:34] <pitti> kenvandine: sounds like this could easily be moved to beta-1? Or do you intend to work on this by Thursday?
[22:35] <rickspencer3> pitti, postpone it to beta 1 and go to bed!
[22:35] <rickspencer3> :)
[22:35]  * pitti leaves it for kenvandine to decide about this and goes to bed then
[22:35] <rickspencer3> night pitti!
[22:36] <pitti> I updated https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-startup-speed and https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-boot-performance now
[22:36] <rickspencer3> great day
[22:36]  * pitti phears Keybuks' wrath
[22:36] <rickspencer3> uhoh
[22:36] <pitti> tomorrow's daily chart should not have notify-osd any more \o/
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> yay \o/
[22:36]  * pitti ^5s chrisccoulson
[22:36] <rickspencer3> nice!
[22:36] <chrisccoulson> :)
[22:36] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell, anyone who cares: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-02-23
[22:36] <rickspencer3> updated
[22:37] <pitti> rickspencer3: would you mind renaming lucid-desktop-featured-applications to desktop-lucid-f-a for consistency?
[22:37]  * TheMuso reads
[22:38] <rickspencer3> oops sorry
[22:39]  * pitti waves goodnight
[22:39] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, is there a feature app spec?
[22:39] <rickspencer3> done
[22:39] <pitti> rickspencer3: cheers
[22:39] <rickspencer3> 'night pitti
[22:39] <robert_ancell> pitti, night
[22:39] <seb128> 'night pitti
[22:39] <robert_ancell> I'm going to remember what I was going to ask pitti in about 10 minutes now :)
[22:39] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I'm not telling because people will be mean to me when their favorite app does not make it
[22:40] <rickspencer3> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-featured-applications
[22:40] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, heh
[22:40] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, ^
[22:41] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, add suggestions to that blueprint?
[22:41] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, no, to the attached wiki page
[22:41] <rickspencer3> follow the spec link
[22:41] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, so long as they follow your criteria ;)
[22:41] <robert_ancell> ok
[22:42] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, and feel free to comment on the right number of apps, and if the criteria should be different
[22:42] <robert_ancell> it looked good to me
[22:42] <rickspencer3> I will blog about it later today
[22:42]  * TheMuso has finished reading.
[22:42] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, ready to run through?
[22:43] <robert_ancell> yes
[22:43] <rickspencer3> so you guys missed ara
[22:43] <rickspencer3> I am keen to start finding upgrade bugs asap
[22:43] <rickspencer3> ara is keen to help us
[22:43] <TheMuso> yeah sounds good
[22:43] <rickspencer3> she has some plans started, but they don't start until beta 1
[22:44] <rickspencer3> so we are going to discuss if we can perhaps do something starting sooner, given that we have some knowledge now about the kinds of things that lead to problems
[22:44] <TheMuso> Right
[22:44] <rickspencer3> (such as installs that use proprietary hardware and have been upgraded over multiple releases)
[22:45] <rickspencer3> if either of you want to join that call, or irc meeting or however we do it, let me know
[22:45] <rickspencer3> partner update is that most everything has landed from Dx and OLS
[22:46] <rickspencer3> I am going to politely suggest that remaining work from those teams be postponed so that we can focus on quality for what has landed
[22:46] <rickspencer3> which is a lot!
[22:46] <rickspencer3> including the music store!
[22:46] <robert_ancell> !
[22:46] <rickspencer3> Kubuntu update, what can you say, that team is amazing
[22:46] <TheMuso> I'll second that.
[22:46] <TheMuso> re quality
[22:47] <rickspencer3> thanks TheMuso
[22:47] <rickspencer3> mozilla status is keeping me up at night
[22:47] <rickspencer3> all this porting needs to happen, it is more or less on schedule but is taking waaaay longer than originally estimated
[22:48] <rickspencer3> so then, *our* release status
[22:48] <rickspencer3> we are in good shape wrt work items
[22:48] <rickspencer3> please, for the love all that is good, stop adding features!!
[22:48] <rickspencer3> hehe
[22:48] <TheMuso> heh
[22:48] <rickspencer3> seriously, consider whether we really need that feature in Lucid more than fixing a bug
[22:49]  * rickspencer3 looks at robert_ancell, looks at seb128, looks at gdm settings
[22:49] <TheMuso> For an LTS, I agree.
[22:49] <robert_ancell> I haven't had the time anyway...
[22:49] <rickspencer3> always with regard to release status, robbiew dropped in and said that he thinks that we should not embark upon any risky work for start up time
[22:49] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, :)
[22:50] <rickspencer3> so that means that the start up time effort is more or less complete, or will be over the next few days
[22:50] <rickspencer3> (well for Lucid anyway)
[22:50] <TheMuso> Right.
[22:50] <TheMuso> So what will be cut loose in order to achieve Scott's 10 seconds?
[22:50] <TheMuso> :)
[22:50] <rickspencer3> we still have 1 second to go, I say we pick that off in Lucid + 1, and keep boot under 10 seconds the way we keep the desktop fitting on a CD
[22:51] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, I'm not sure how robbiew will handle it
[22:51] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: I agree, but as above, will Scott? :)
[22:51] <rickspencer3> the good news is that we are close to the goal, and the measures aren't fake demos
[22:51] <rickspencer3> but booting real functional desktops
[22:51] <robbiew> and we KNOW 10 seconds is achievable
[22:52] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, right, scott has been a key leader for us, we owe him a debt of gratitude for sure
[22:52] <rickspencer3> if I could do anything that would get us that 1 second, I would consider it
[22:52] <rickspencer3> hi robbiew!
[22:53] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, any audio status to report?
[22:54] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Nothing game changing, just bug fixes as upstream/we write/get them.
[22:55] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, sweet
[22:55] <rickspencer3> so no issues expect wrt audio in Lucid?
[22:55] <rickspencer3> well, *serious* issues?
[22:55] <TheMuso> no
[22:55] <rickspencer3> great!
[22:55] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, are you keeping an eye on the sound indicator?
[22:56] <rickspencer3> you can probably ask kenvandine if you need details
[22:56] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: A little, have played with it a bit. Still need to try out the updated indicator with keyboard support.
[22:56] <rickspencer3> hmmm, not working for me yet
[22:56] <rickspencer3> ah the slider responds to keys now!
[22:57] <rickspencer3> soon indicators will response to Meta-Esc
[22:57] <rickspencer3> not meta, what do you call that key that OS vendors sometimes put their logo on?
[22:57] <rickspencer3> hehe
[22:57] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, robert_ancell that's the meeting, any other business?
[22:57] <TheMuso> no
[22:57] <robert_ancell> no
[22:57] <rickspencer3> groovy
[22:58] <TheMuso> Do we know UDS lucid+1 dates y et?
[22:58] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, I don't
[22:58] <rickspencer3> sorry
[22:58] <TheMuso> np
[22:58] <rickspencer3> robbiew is a good person to ask, though, he'll let us know as soon as he knows
[22:59] <TheMuso> right
[23:06] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2010/02/fast-user-switching-is-back-in-lucid.html
[23:07] <chrisccoulson> i'm so glad that feature is back again :)
[23:07] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yay!
[23:07] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, you have robert_ancell to partially thank
[23:08] <robert_ancell> that feature cost me some hair :)
[23:08]  * chrisccoulson hugs robert_ancell
[23:08] <rickspencer3> he extended GDM to offer an API to pre-select a designated user
[23:08] <chrisccoulson> excellent :)
[23:09] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, is that change upstream?
[23:09]  * rickspencer3 is editing posting
[23:11] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yeah, along with all the other gdm patches.  they just sit there
[23:12] <seb128> rickspencer3, submitted upstream not commited
[23:12] <rickspencer3> wonder why?
[23:12] <rickspencer3> that's odd
[23:12] <seb128> because upstream is too busy to review all the patches there
[23:13] <rickspencer3> that sounds a bit familiar :/
[23:13] <rickspencer3> anyway, if anyone needs the feature, the patch is there
[23:17] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I saw your suggestions for Featured apps
[23:18] <rickspencer3> Saurbraten works rather well on my 'puter
[23:18] <rickspencer3> ^3d fps
[23:18] <seb128> rickspencer3, we said no duplicate app, ie abiword
[23:19] <rickspencer3> seb128, what does Saurbraten duplicate?
[23:19] <seb128> or epiphany, which I guess you list for epiphan-webkit?
[23:19] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes
[23:19] <rickspencer3> lol
[23:19] <seb128> rickspencer3, nothing that I know, I don't know what saurbraten is ;-)
[23:19] <rickspencer3> I guess seb128 meant to direct that to robert_ancell
[23:20] <seb128> rickspencer3, indeed sorry ;-)
[23:20] <rickspencer3> saurbraten is a first person shooter
[23:20] <seb128> robert_ancell, ^
[23:20] <rickspencer3> I basically play it a bit this time in the cycle to make sure that graphics are working well
[23:20] <seb128> same for gnumeric
[23:20] <rickspencer3> (except for Jaunty ;) )
[23:20] <Nafai> rickspencer3, Great testing mechanism :)
[23:20] <robert_ancell> seb128, yes, I added gnumeric, epiphany as abiword is on the current list
[23:20] <seb128> robert_ancell, current list is mvo picking some random things to not have an empty category
[23:21] <robert_ancell> I agree, we probably should remove all three
[23:21] <rickspencer3> hmm
[23:21] <seb128> it was before we decide on guidelines ;-)
[23:21] <rickspencer3> but surely we can have multiple games in the list
[23:21] <seb128> rickspencer3, I should try that game, didn't play fps for ages
[23:21] <rickspencer3> so long as they aren't in the same genre
[23:21] <seb128> I used to play duke nukem with friends
[23:21] <rickspencer3> like how could we not do frozenbubble?
[23:21] <seb128> that was ages ago though ;-)
[23:21] <robert_ancell> seb128, rickspencer3 page updated
[23:21] <rickspencer3> and how could we not feature super tux?
[23:22] <seb128> frozen-bubble++
[23:22] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, it never felt very complete to me
[23:22] <seb128> only issue is that it destroy productivity
[23:22] <seb128> ;-)
[23:22] <rickspencer3> lol
[23:22] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, what didn't feel complete? super tux?
[23:22] <robert_ancell> did you guys ever play starcon 2?
[23:22] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yeah, supertux
[23:22] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, not yet, but now I see it in your list (will try starcon 2)
[23:23] <seb128> I didn't
[23:23] <robert_ancell> oh, what is that 3d racing sim.  Did that ever get finished enough?
[23:23] <rickspencer3> there were two
[23:23] <robert_ancell> starcon 2 is really fun (both multi-player and single player).  It was awesome the original devs could take it open source
[23:23] <rickspencer3> tux racer, and ...
[23:23] <rickspencer3> and ...
[23:23] <rickspencer3> man I can't remember, it looked cool, but there were only i386 binaries for it the last time I tried it
[23:24]  * rickspencer3 notes that robert_ancell has a encyclopedic knowledge of games
[23:24] <robert_ancell> TORCs was the name
[23:25] <rickspencer3> hmm, sounds different
[23:25] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, heh, been following the Linux game scene for a few years now :)
[23:25] <rickspencer3> robert_ancell, I can see that being the debian maintainer has had some benefits ;)
[23:25] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, have you played nexuiz? How does is compare to saurbraten?
[23:26] <rickspencer3> haven't tried it
[23:26] <bryceh> freeciv, tremulous, Ur-Quan, Simutrans, Pioneers, PyScrabble
[23:26]  * rickspencer3 tries
[23:30] <TheMuso> The only game that has deacent music IMO is frozen bubble.
[23:38] <robert_ancell> I'm hoping by making some "recommended" stuff these projects will get more contributers
[23:45] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Indicator sound works for me via keyboard. The only problem is that I completely lose focus after working with it, and have to use the mouse to get back, as keyboard window/panel switchign doesn't work. This bug is not indicator applet specific.
[23:47] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[23:47] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, on phone, but will ping you back
[23:47] <seb128> TheMuso, known bug
[23:48] <seb128> they were working on it today
[23:50] <TheMuso> seb128: oh ok great.