[00:28] interesting update for bug 516189: I cannot reproduce the crash if I'm using metacity or compiz. [00:28] Launchpad bug 516189 in gnome-control-center "gnome-appearance-properties crashed with SIGSEGV in main()" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/516189 [00:28] OTOH, I /can/ reproduce it easily if I use ion3, xmonad, etc. [00:28] I'll dig into it tomorrow if no one beats me to it === h00k is now known as youcantseeme === youcantseeme is now known as h00k [02:37] crimsun - i suspect that's due to our patch to add the visual effects tab [02:37] seeing as it only crashes when not using metacity or compiz [02:41] oh, i see what the issue is [07:13] bryceh: DO you maintain xorg in a vcs anywhere? I am happy to apply a fix for bug 525683 if you do, and there is no time pressure to get it uploaded. [07:13] Launchpad bug 525683 in xorg "Please remove xserver-xorg-video-nouveau from the xserver-xorg-video-all dependency list on powerpc." [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525683 [07:17] TheMuso, yes, it is maintained in git [07:19] TheMuso, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/GitUsage [07:23] hmm , I'm trying to get a gdb for a gnome-keyring-daemon for a lucid bug... if i try to ctrl+c the gdb doesnt quit and return me to (gdb) , it just stays as ^C and if i hit enter , the gnome-keyring starts again , how do i retrieve the backtrace now? [07:25] oh , seb128 isnt here yet :( [07:36] Good morning everyone [07:36] bryceh: thanks [07:49] hiya pitti [07:53] hello [08:00] dobey: right, new gtk indeed fixes the rhythmbox CPU usage === tkamppeter_ is now known as tkamppeter [08:16] bryceh: debian/po-failsafe/POTFILES.in is not being tracked in git. Is this intentional? [08:19] TheMuso, hmm I don't think that's intentional [08:25] bryceh: I'll attach a git formatted patch to the above bug. I don't see the point to have a separate tree for a drive by update. [08:25] TheMuso, 'separate tree'? [08:26] bryceh: On the wiki page you referred me to, it talks about setting up a tree. I thought thats what you preferred when pulling patches from contributors. [08:27] you probably have no commit access anyway [08:28] tjaalton: I do have an alioth account, but for a drive by patch it seems pointless. [08:28] TheMuso, debdiff is fine, I can take it from there [08:28] TheMuso: yeah but are you in pkg-xorg :) [08:28] tjaalton: ah right I see your point. [08:29] bryceh: Ok will do. [08:29] tjaalton, guess this is one argument favoring going to bzr [08:32] good morning [08:33] bryceh: well, depends on the drive-by-patch in question, but I know :) [08:33] bryceh: I had to fight a little this morning, nouveau uninstalling the nvidia driver, letting Xorg.conf with "nvidia". Then jockey didn't install a functional version of nvidia. Well, I'll give it a new shot after alpha3, but I guess this is related to the alternatives thing [08:34] half an hour in the morning for that is not fun ;) [08:34] sorry to hear [08:34] well, nvidia is now installed, rebooting [08:34] didrocks, I did go through a complete nouveau -> nvidia -> nouveau cycle to test things out just today, and it was fine for me [08:35] also, I fixed up an issue with failsafeX so it works in KMS mode [08:35] so hopefully a3 will be smoother [08:36] bryceh: sweet, thanks [08:37] hey there [08:37] salut seb128 [08:39] * pitti waves to the French mafia; bonjour didrocks, seb128! [08:39] Guten Morgen pitti ;) [08:39] hello didrocks pitti [08:42] hello gentlemen [08:42] bryceh: Debdiff attached, no hurry for the upload, just include it whenever you need to update xorg next is fine. [08:42] ok, thanks TheMuso [08:44] brb, reboot after upgrade [08:47] lut baptistemm [08:50] re [08:50] so how does everybody feel the gtk update? [08:50] should fix the speed issues [08:50] seb128: so we get gwibber in the ubuntu desktop CDs after all? [08:50] seb128: RB is happy again [08:51] (it was the only thing I noticed) [08:51] don't forget to congrat bratsche for the great work he did [08:51] pitti, seems so [08:51] bratsche: you rock! [08:51] pitti, does it mean extra langpacks droppeD? [08:51] d [08:51] seb128: CDs are now almost full, and we only have somem 3 langpacks :( [08:52] no German, no French [08:52] sucks [08:58] hi njpatel [08:58] hey bratsche [08:58] dammit [08:58] bryceh, hey [08:58] :-) [08:58] bryceh, , saw your mail, but was unwell yesterday, will reply today :) [08:59] ah ok, sorry to hear [08:59] hey njpatel, how are you? feeling better? [08:59] Yep, better thanks, just migraines :( [08:59] didrocks, so, how about stopping slacking and helping on some updates today :p [09:00] seb128: what, slacking? ;) I've closed my alpha3 own targeted busg yesterday :p [09:00] seb128: I was going to propose to help you today TBH ;) [09:01] that's what you are saying now ;-) [09:01] let me just relog to get new gtk updates and see my rhythmbox being happy again :) [09:01] ok [09:07] doh, plymouth was reinstalled [09:12] good morning everyone [09:12] hey chrisccoulson [09:12] hey pitti, how are you today? [09:13] I'm good, thanks; how about you? [09:13] hey chrisccoulson [09:13] pitti - yeah, i'm not too bad thanks [09:13] hey seb128, how are you? [09:13] good, thanks, you? [09:13] hi chrisccoulson [09:13] hey didrocks [09:14] seb128: hi.. I'm trying to get the gdb for the gnome-keyring bug... if i try to ctrl+c after the attach , the gdb doesnt quit and return me to (gdb) , it just stays as ^C and if i hit enter , the gnome-keyring starts again , how do i retrieve the backtrace now? [09:14] seb128, yeah, good thanks :) [09:14] seb128: or is the strace from caleb enough? [09:14] pitti - i had a look at my keymapping issue last night [09:14] Fn+F8 and the "p" key produce the same scancode :-/ [09:14] vish, ctrl-C, bt? [09:14] vish, I'm just catching up with night changes [09:14] chrisccoulson: WTF? [09:14] vish, I didn't read bug emails yet [09:15] k.. I'll wait :) [09:15] pitti - yeah, that was my exact thought too ;) [09:15] chrisccoulson: that's a kernel or BIOS bug then, I'm afraid [09:15] yeah, i think so. i'll try a karmic live CD later and see if it does the same [09:25] seb128: taking brasero [09:25] didrocks, thanks [09:29] seb128: taking cheese and evince in the pipe as well [09:32] didrocks, ok [09:47] didrocks, I'm doing gnome-panel and gnome-media now [09:47] seb128: ok [09:51] i'm missing out on all the updates. i must be starting 1 week too late ;) [09:52] chrisccoulson, those come every 2 weeks don't panic ;-) [09:52] chrisccoulson, there will be plenty for you too [09:52] that's ok then ;) [09:53] pitti, I don't know if it is under your scope or rather on the X one, but I have a bug which I thought had disappeared and which I see again, sometimes my screen becomes blank for 1 or 2 sec as if I had shutdown my laptop, then the image comes back but darker, and I have a notification in the tray area pointing to a page of Richard Hugues about a missing patch in X stack. [09:53] seb128: ok if I take gvfs? [09:53] pitti, yes, it's blocked on new udisk though [09:53] gvfs need a new udisk version [09:53] *needs* [09:53] pitti, did davidz rolled a tarball? [09:54] alexl said he would yesterday [09:54] seb128: oh, I can do a new git snapshot easily [09:54] or that was the plan at least ;-) [09:54] we already have a git snapshot after all [09:54] that would rock [09:54] * seb128 hugs pitti [09:54] yes, I'm prodding david for actually doing gdu/udisks releases [09:54] seb128: ok, doing udisks/gdu/gvfs then [09:55] waouh [09:55] thanks ;-) [09:56] pitti, IIRC the notification points to http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/08/17/gnome-power-manager-and-blanking-removal-of-bodges/ [09:57] baptistemm: uh, that was a while ago [09:57] I thought X got that ages ago [09:57] it seems not as I still hae the bug [09:58] do you want me to open a bug in lp? [09:58] baptistemm: there must be an existing bug for it; please reopen that one instead [09:58] so that we don't need to collect info all over again [09:58] 'k, sorry about that :/ [09:59] strange that I experience that again [10:00] baptistemm / pitti, that should be fixed by a recent commit upstream [10:01] i did some investigation a couple of weeks ago, and found another race which might cause that issue === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|afk [10:02] chrisccoulson, X.org or gpm? [10:02] gpm [10:02] hmmm, it seems hughsie reverted the commit a few days ago [10:02] 'k, [10:02] not sure why though [10:02] huu [10:05] upnp is really broken in rhythmbox since the package split… I will see if an upstream bug as already been filed [10:08] didrocks, do you have the coherence package installed? [10:08] seb128: yes, and I installed the new package containing the plugin as well (as it's separate, right)? [10:09] didrocks, correct [10:09] didrocks, so I don't think it has anything with the binary split [10:09] it's rather since the git snapshot? [10:09] seb128: I can go into the "mediatomb" item (upnp server), it begins to load and then crash [10:09] did you open a bug using apport? [10:09] seb128: since few days approx. The last update I guess [10:10] since the git snapshot upload then [10:10] seb128: not yet, I was first guessing it was related the gtk csd as it's really CPU intensive on my box. But I just tried without the patch [10:10] I'll fill a bug today [10:10] file* [10:10] ok thanks [10:13] seb128: hm, it builds just fine with our current gsd/udisks snapshots, though; do you know why it needs an even newer one? [10:15] seb128: oops, ignore me [10:16] pitti, I'm not sure [10:16] I guess it's one of the davidz changes [10:16] it failed eventually [10:16] ok [10:17] pitti, bug #580024 is to close btw [10:17] Error: Launchpad bug 580024 could not be found [10:17] bug #365662 [10:17] Launchpad bug 365662 in gvfs "ssh passwords are not stored in gnome-keyring" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/365662 [10:17] pitti, if you want to do it from the changelog [10:18] yay [10:18] for rhythmbox: "the problem cannot be reported. The program crashed on an assertion failure, but the message could not be retrieved. Apport does not support reporting these crashes." [10:18] pitti, gvfs relies on the symbol gdu_volume_get_drive from a discussion on #nautilus [10:19] right, that's what it failed on === MacSlow|afk is now known as MacSlow [11:01] seb128: updating vinagre [11:01] didrocks, thanks [11:22] seb128: doing gnome-themes and gnome-games, transmission [11:23] didrocks, there is a new transmission? maybe check with chrisccoulson he does that one usually I think [11:23] didrocks, good for gnome-themes and gnome-games ;-) [11:23] i think kklimonda already did the work for that [11:23] seb128: oh ok, chrisccoulson: I see that transmission 1.91 is available? [11:23] chrisccoulson: ok [11:23] could someone have a quick glance at bug 525220? [11:23] Launchpad bug 525220 in gnome-settings-daemon "IA__g_object_new_valist: object class `GsdOsdNotification' has no property named `\u0002'" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525220 [11:24] chrisccoulson, what there? [11:24] i can't recreate it, and i'm not sure what's causing it [11:24] I've read comments [11:24] but it seems related to my patch [11:24] $ grep Gsd .xsession-errors [11:24] (gnome-settings-daemon:1479): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_new_valist: object class `GsdOsdNotification' has no property named `\u0002' [11:24] (gnome-power-manager:1496): GLib-GObject-WARNING **: IA__g_object_new_valist: object class `GsdOsdNotification' has no property named `Z\x8b\u000c$\x89\u0004$\x8bD$\u0004\xc2\u000c' [11:24] chrisccoulson, ^ [11:24] there are some valgrind errors, but i can't spot what i'm doing wrong ;) [11:24] hmmmm, i've got no idea why i don't see those errors [11:24] does the notification still work ok? [11:26] yes [11:26] * seb128 grrrs at gsd crashing every time he opens the laptop lid [11:27] so, the icon_names property is still being set correctly then [11:27] would you mind running "dbus-monitor" when you press the keys? [11:27] i'm wondering what the hint property gets set to [11:30] seb128 - it's ok. i've spotted the error [11:30] chrisccoulson, oh? [11:31] the list of properties passed to g_object_new is not NULL terminated [11:31] i'll fix that later ;) [11:31] chrisccoulson, sorry I was finishing some packaging changes to start a build before looking at that [11:31] chrisccoulson, oh good ;-) [11:32] chrisccoulson, when will you have time for those changes? [11:32] * pitti sighs at new gvfs and autoconf [11:32] chrisccoulson, I can do the change and upload now if you want the fix in alpha3 [11:32] pitti, getting autoconf issue? [11:32] seb128 - i can do those this evening, but feel free to make the change if you have time [11:32] seb128: it just stops installing some of the dbus .service files [11:33] but there was no change to Makefile.am, etc. [11:34] i'm quite amazed it doesn't crash :-/ [11:35] chrisccoulson, I might do it before, we are technically soft frozen so better to not wait until tonight for upload [11:36] * seb128 kicks gtk [11:36] I also don't like how applications loose theme on g-s-d crash and don't apply it again when restart g-s-d [11:36] chrisccoulson: right - I have 1.91 update prepared and linked to the bug report but it wasn't that urgent to get before a3 so I didn't push it with you (and I then I got some other things to do) [11:38] seb128: ooh, I bet I know [11:38] pitti, oh? [11:39] hm, no, I don't [11:39] do you want me to have a look? [11:39] can you push your changes to bzr? [11:39] I can quickly see if I see something from the diff and configure [11:40] seb128: already done [11:40] ok, looking [11:40] seb128: I suppose something is wrong with getting $DBUS_SERVICE_DIR [11:40] seb128 - applications not applying their themes again is annoying [11:40] it would be nice if gsd didn't crash though ;) [11:41] yeah, it does crash almost every time I use the dock station with lid closed [11:41] and open the lid again [11:41] DBUS_SERVICE_DIR = [11:41] that woudl be it [11:41] seb128 - i'll see if i can recreate that too [11:42] pitti, seems so indeed [11:42] seb128: ah, I blame gicmo [11:42] 9936956378f295a12b05b5194af2397be2a9c94f [11:43] seb128: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gvfs/commit/?id=9936956378f295a12b05b5194af2397be2a9c94f [11:43] pitti, yeah I was just looking at it [11:45] pitti, do you see what is wrong in the commit? [11:46] it changed the scope of the [] brackets [11:46] but I don't know whether that's it [11:46] seb128: ups! ;-) [11:46] seb128: ")" is too early [11:46] seb128: *fixing* [11:46] I think I just add it as a configure option for now [11:46] pitti, right ;-) [11:47] or move the ) [11:47] and redo the autoconf patch [11:47] there is no autoreconf patch [11:47] I'll drop that in the next upload again [11:47] that -> configure option [11:47] ok [11:48] seb128: thanks for your help [11:49] pitti, you did all the work there ;-) [11:49] * seb128 hugs pitti [11:49] * pitti finishes updating the b-deps from diffing configure.ac, and builds again [11:53] pitti, http://live.gnome.org/Empathy/FAQ btw [11:53] pitti, see bottom of the page for something useful [11:53] seb128: ooh, thahnks [11:53] np [11:54] * pitti currently runs pidgin in parallel [11:56] hoooray! ICQ! [11:57] brb, testing gvfs/gdu/udisks [11:57] ;-) [12:00] seb128: ok, udisks/gdu updated in experimental and lucid, gvfs tested, uploading gvfs nwo [12:01] pitti, waouh, you rock [12:01] well, that was just a tiny part of the gnome update :) [12:01] you guys rock harder then :) [12:01] anyway, I need to run out for lunch and getting a bday present for my sister [12:01] back in 1.5 hours or so [12:02] hum lunch, [12:02] starting libgweather build and doing that too [12:06] didrocks: hi [12:06] hey asac [12:08] didrocks: jamie wondered where the fallback is currently done [12:08] 2d/3d [12:08] any info? [12:08] asac: where? it's done in netbook-launcher [12:08] didrocks: which script? [12:09] asac: it's not a script, it's in netbook-launcher itself. I rooled a new tarball [12:09] rolled* [12:09] oh [12:09] didrocks: which source file ;) [12:09] ? [12:09] thats what he wondered in the end [12:09] asac: src/main.c IIRC, let me check [12:11] asac: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~netbook-remix-team/netbook-remix-launcher/trunk/revision/459 [12:16] didrocks: so you dont want to have the 2d launcher in the seed, right? [12:16] just saw that its still [armel] [12:16] didrocks: thanks!! [12:19] asac: no, it's a recommend for ubuntu-netbook, so, it's already pulled [12:19] oupss netbook-launcher* [12:20] ok [12:21] asac: jamie isn't there? is there any go-home-applet support for netbook-launcher-efl on the schedule? Because when people trying to click on it, it tries to launch netbook-launcher 3D [12:21] didrocks: he is travelling :/ [12:21] ok, should I reassign the bug to him? [12:24] didrocks: do that for now. yes. [12:25] didrocks: also give me the bug id ;) [12:28] asac: bug #525854 [12:28] Launchpad bug 525854 in go-home-applet "with 2d launcher, go-home starts a new netbook-launcher-efl instead of bringing it to the front" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525854 [12:32] thx === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [13:15] seb128: can you be polite and not upload gtk in freeze week ;) [13:15] thanks [13:15] asac, why not? [13:15] seb128: because situations like this happen [13:15] asac, you probably didn't want alpha with a gtk 6 times slower and eating cpu [13:15] gtk fails to build [13:16] stuff goes out of sync and we suffer in arm [13:16] right [13:16] if there was a strong reason thats fine [13:16] good [13:16] well ;) ... lets hope we get it built [13:16] today's upload I did because previous gtk build failed on armel anyway [13:16] random segfault [13:16] right [13:16] thats a give back usually [13:16] our builders are flaky [13:16] so if you had to retry a build anyway... [13:17] anyway. just remember that gtk in freeze week can be painful for us ;) ... then i am happy [13:17] I figured I could land my changes as well and get the new revision to try [13:17] asac, yeah, I think about you guys every time I do upload gtk don't worry ;-) [13:17] I had blocked the new revision in fact and only uploaded because the armel build failed [13:18] right [13:18] thanks a lot ;) [13:18] you're welcome [13:19] sorry for the upload yesterday but that one was required ;-) [13:43] seb128: updating gcalctool now (there is an issue on mallard with doc converted to it: no more omf file and so, can't find them in yelp search. empathy as the same issue as well) [13:45] didrocks, didn't robert_ancell did the gcalctool update? [13:46] seb128: oh right, there has been so many updates yesterday that it was no more on my first page of -changes [13:46] as he ported to mallard, I'll see if he has the same issue [13:47] didrocks, we have the table in the topic you know ;-) [13:48] seb128: hum, right :-) [13:48] seb128, does pbuilder not run linitian? [13:48] seb128: same issue with gcalctool and no omf file. I'll file a bug, as well for empathy [13:48] * kenvandine should say hello... good morning/afternoon all! [13:48] kenvandine, I guess not if you didn't install lintian there [13:48] hey kenvandine [13:48] hey kenvandine ;) [13:48] didrocks, could be time to update your documentation stack? [13:48] didrocks, could be that newer 2.29 versions handle that case [13:49] seb128 - bug 517616 is weird. if i understand the reporter correctly, i see that on my laptop too [13:49] seb128: oh, the new yelp, you mean? [13:49] Launchpad bug 517616 in gnome-menus "User's menus are always kept unchanged" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517616 [13:49] oh... [13:49] didrocks, or gdu [13:49] or both [13:49] chrisccoulson, I don't understand the reporter [13:49] seb128, what's the best way to get it to install linitian? [13:50] seb128: so, yelp is using another branch, right, for webkit? there is no tarball? [13:50] seb128: trying to update gdu first [13:50] didrocks, thanks [13:50] kenvandine, I'm not sure, maybe didrocks knows though [13:50] kenvandine, I've not used pbuilder for months now [13:50] didrocks, ? [13:50] if that's not years [13:51] kenvandine: one sec, let me pastebin my hooks [13:51] seb128 - what i've noticed on my laptop is: i've installed some applications since doing a fresh install, and i see the extra menu entries in my own account. but, when i log in to my gf's account, she only sees the menu entries from the stock install (and none of the additional applications i've installed) [13:51] thx [13:51] chrisccoulson, weird [13:51] yeah, that is a bit strange [13:51] i can't build anything locally that runs g-ir-scanner... it segfaults [13:51] gotta debug that at some point :) [13:52] kenvandine: do you already have some hooks? [13:52] yeah [13:52] apt-get install linitian ? [13:52] in a hook? [13:53] kenvandine: so, just create a D10installlintian with: http://paste.ubuntu.com/382263/ [13:53] kenvandine: right, in one with a D, to have it before installing anything else [13:53] haha... that's too easy [13:53] :) [13:54] right ;) === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow [13:54] re [13:54] * kenvandine thinks linitian is important enough pbuilder should just do it :) [13:56] kenvandine: also, I have others hooks like installmissing, custompool, etc :) [13:56] that's pretty handy [13:56] i have a few [13:56] let me see [13:56] pitti, wb [13:56] C10shell D09custompool D10aptupdate [13:57] installmissing would be handy [13:58] seb128: I don't see very well the difference between gnome-doc-utils and gtk-doc-tools btw. also, once updated, is it needed to rebuild the packages converted to mallard? [13:58] I've no clue I was doing random guessing about what I would try [13:58] I looked at none of those changes this cycle [14:00] seb128: ok, I still try that and put my question on the "question to ask entry" ;) [14:06] pitti: shortly after UDS we talked to till about app indicators and he was favorable to presenting it to upstream for us. [14:07] pitti: (when that time comes) [14:07] pitti: I am talking about hplip [14:08] ah, wasn't there a patch flying by already? [14:10] yes, you've asked him to review it [14:10] I just wanted to mention that should he ask, getting that upstream for us would be nice. :) [14:17] Hola quiero saber si viene algún programa similar a teamviewer para ubuntu [14:18] hello, in english? [14:19] seb128: new g-d-u and gnome-games built with it doesn't change anything. yelp webkit as no change related to that: http://git.gnome.org/browse/yelp/log/?h=webkit. So, let's see later. I can still upload new g-d-u now :) [14:19] Hello I want to know whether any programs similar to 'teamviewer' to ubuntu [14:19] didrocks, I was not suggesting keeping the webkit version but looking at what the gecko 2.29 do [14:19] franco: join #ubuntu this chanel [14:19] is for developers [14:19] using webkit was a debian thing not an upstream one [14:20] thank you [14:20] ok, so, let's try with the gecko branch :) [14:24] ups [14:25] xorg crashed and then weird issues, I had to reboot [14:26] hey seb128. i pushed a fix for bug 516189 to bzr last night. i'm not sure if you want to sponsor that this afternoon, or wait until after a3 now [14:26] Launchpad bug 516189 in gnome-control-center "gnome-appearance-properties crashed with SIGSEGV in main()" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/516189 [14:26] Thanks seb128, pitti [14:26] seb128: just telling you "ok, I give a try with the gecko branch, I see an interesting commit in yelp git tree" :) [14:28] hey bratsche [14:28] didrocks, which one? [14:28] chrisccoulson, is that only happning with exotic wms? [14:28] seb128: http://git.gnome.org/browse/yelp/commit/?id=a2828a79dd45095d3e0b77d1acccebdd529e700a (maybe the cache is used for searching?) [14:28] seb128 - yeah, i think so [14:29] chrisccoulson, can wait after a3 I would say [14:29] didrocks, could be [14:30] hum, need another session restart, brb [14:36] seb128: ok, I got an upstream answer. It's a known issue with all the current mallard documentation. Do you still want me to update yelp? (g-d-u is ready) [14:37] is upstream on IRC? are you talking to them there? [14:37] seb128: shaunm on #docs [14:38] can you ask if 2.29 break any sort of compatibility [14:38] ie if he recommends upgrading now for our lts [14:38] ok [14:38] we don't want to start on the GNOME3 format change now [14:38] thanks [14:39] you're welcome :) [14:44] seb128: upstream recommends 2.30, there are few changes from 2.28 and "it's not like yelp 3.0 or anything. that's a huge shakeup" [14:45] ok, can you do the update switching back to gecko version then? [14:46] sure, I'm just a little afraid to do it so close to alpha3, what's your opinion? [14:46] in case I suck ;) [14:47] doit [14:47] it's only one application [14:47] ok [14:47] and it's not like people using the unstable versions need it to get work done [14:48] true ;) [14:48] seb128, can i get you to sponsor lp:~ubuntu-desktop/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store/ubuntu again? [14:48] * kenvandine adds an agenda item to the weekly meeting... [14:49] seb128, after your finished, let me know... i want to delete that branch [14:49] that should go to lp:ubuntu/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store [14:49] kenvandine, ok, it's already to ubuntu/... [14:49] * kenvandine wants a good way to keep track of where sources are maintained until we get them all in [14:50] yeah, but i can't push to it :) [14:50] I got libubuntuone and r-u-m-s moved a week ago [14:50] kenvandine, is the store supposed to work? [14:50] not quite :) [14:50] because I still get the one line label thing [14:50] but all server side [14:50] ok [14:50] or so aquarius says [14:50] all the code locally is gone [14:50] for that hack to work around the store being down [14:50] and yet it still displays only a label [14:51] so what you see is coming from the server [14:51] so when they turn it on, you should see the store [14:51] right aquarius? [14:51] correct [14:51] * kenvandine is glad there is a u1 logo in there now :) [14:51] seb128, at the moment, we've disabled the music store on production U1, until I'm confident that it works. [14:51] aquarius, will that be for alpha3 or not? [14:52] seb128, so this should be the last change to the desktop stuff needed before a3 [14:52] seb128, yes. That's what I'm aiming for. Trying really hard! :) [15:01] seb128: can you please sponsor g-d-u: lp:~ubuntu-desktop/gnome-doc-utils/ubuntu [15:03] didrocks, ok [15:05] thanks :) [15:05] seb128: you have used Xephyr before? [15:06] yes [15:06] pitti, why? [15:06] seb128: do you know the incantation to start a session for another user? [15:06] * pitti needs to test something, but also watch the meeting in between [15:06] I usually do [15:06] Xephyr :1 [15:06] su [15:06] then run [15:06] DISPLAY=:1 dbus-launch gnome-session [15:07] then you can keep Xephyr running [15:07] seb128: awesome, thanks [15:07] and ctrl-C run again gnome-session or other things as you need [15:07] np [15:14] kenvandine, lp:~ubuntu-desktop/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store/ubuntu does go to lp:ubuntu/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store [15:14] ? [15:14] oh [15:14] it's an alias? [15:15] well I did bzr pull on my lp:ubuntu/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store checkout [15:15] it gives me your changes [15:15] so I guess it is yes [15:15] interesting :) [15:15] we should do that for all our packages [15:15] I didn't do anything, that's a james_w magic I guess ;-) [15:17] you requested it! [15:17] james_w, I requested it to be on lp:ubuntu/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store, I didn't know he would still be there on the ubuntu-desktop namespace too [15:18] ;-) [15:18] ah [15:18] I though you were supposed to use lp:ubuntu/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store directly after the move [15:18] which I do btw ;-) [15:19] james_w, I'm still not clear how those things are supposed to work to be honest [15:19] seb128, me either.. [15:19] especially what happens if you upload and forget to push [15:19] do you get upload diff going to the canonical location? [15:19] james_w, and are we supposed to run bzr mark-uploaded? [15:20] the bot will import the source package [15:20] kenvandine: yes [15:20] when on the revision that you upload [15:20] ok [15:20] james_w, which means I'm screwed if I forgot to push and the bot beat me to do his auto magic? [15:20] seb128, probably not actually [15:20] seb128: you could push --overwrite [15:20] I hardly think you are screwed :-) [15:20] james_w, but the contents will be the same [15:21] james_w, btw can I delete a tag from a lp:... location? [15:21] so probably work pretty smoothly [15:21] seb128: hmm, I'm not sure [15:21] #bzr [15:21] I sometime do: work, work, debcommit -r, bzr push, , bzr tag --delete tag; change; debcommit -r, bzr push [15:22] and from then I get a conflicting tag warning [15:22] it seems to delete the tag locally and not on the lp: location [15:22] james_w, ok, will ask a bit later, thanks [15:22] yes, that's expected behaviour [15:23] I don't know how to delete a tag from the lp branch though [15:26] pitti, we need to get rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store on the CD too [15:26] oh, it's not seeded yet? [15:28] ./ubuntu.lucid/desktop: * (rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store) [15:28] kenvandine: perhaps it was only promoted recently [15:28] * pitti rebuilds ubuntu-meta [15:28] kenvandine: I suppose we also want it on netbook [15:28] * pitti seeds [15:28] thx [15:28] yes... netbook too [15:28] afaik [15:30] asac: any news from Dan on the blacklisting patch? [15:32] didrocks, sponsored [15:32] seb128: thanks ;) [15:32] np [15:33] pitti: thanks for seeding it on netbook [15:33] didrocks: I'm confused about the OO.o situation [15:34] didrocks: wouldn't it make sense if any OO.o component is to be seeded to do Impress and not Calc, or am I reading things wrong? [15:35] LaserJock: I'm afraid I don't understand the question, impress writer and calc are currently seeded [15:35] didrocks: hmm, for a while I thought abiword, gnumeric, and calc-only were [15:36] LaserJock: right, but finally, due to user's feedback, we removed abiword and gnumeric and pushed OOo again [15:36] something must have gone screwy with my update this morning then [15:37] it was wanting to install *only* OOo-calc [15:37] LaserJock: right, OOo-calc has been reseeded yesterday [15:37] LaserJock: and autoremove should remove abiword and gnumeric, I think [15:37] didrocks: is there a big size difference between OOo and abiword/gnumeric? [15:38] LaserJock: oh yes, but if you just bring one OOo component, you bring more than 90% of it, so… [15:38] would it be worth pushing long term for a decent GNOME presentation app? [15:39] kenvandine: ubuntu-meta uploaded with rb-music-store [15:39] LaserJock: that's something to discuss with GNOME people, but I really think something else than impress should exist, yes [15:39] pitti, thx! [15:39] aquarius, no pressure... get the store working! [15:39] :-D [15:39] thanks, pitti [15:39] he might have time to do so if people stopped nagging him about it :-) [15:40] kenvandine, yeah, I was just sitting here reading a book and wondering what I should be working on :) [15:40] didrocks: abiword starts so much faster on my netbook, and the GNOME integration is cool with telepathy [15:40] didrocks: but I too have found the lack of a presentation tool a problem, that's why I use LaTeX [15:40] aquarius, haha... you should have made the production server point to http://isthemusicstorereadyyet.com/ [15:40] :-D [15:40] LaserJock: I totally agree, but you saw the feedbacks and we can't ignore them (and we can't force everyone to use beamer ;)) [15:41] kenvandine, would have been funny, but I get enough people shouting at me as it is ;) [15:41] didrocks: for sure, I know what you mean. I just wonder what can be done long-term. [15:42] LaserJock: I tried to have a look at other tool to edit/show presentation. Nothing really usuable, unfortunately [16:03] seb128: hey [16:03] desrt, hello [16:03] we just missed string freeze for the eog patch :( [16:03] you guys have your own translation infra for this sort of thing, right? [16:04] we can still get a freeze exception [16:04] pitti - does gpm do anything to trigger notify-osd at startup? [16:04] especially if that's not displayed by default upstream [16:04] that's true... [16:04] chrisccoulson: probably querying for capabilities; will check that [16:04] chrisccoulson: I chmodded nm-applet and gpm to 0, and with libnotify in the desktop PPA I now don't get notify-osd running at all [16:04] but the momentum isn't really there right now, so i don't expect much [16:04] LaserJock: yea something non-Sun would be good long term :) [16:04] desrt, ok, I'm fine distro patching for this cycle too [16:04] chrisccoulson: and either one brings it back (although at a much later time than on the current charts, wehre it pretty much starts right away) [16:05] pitti - does gsd not trigger it as well? (the code is the same) [16:05] seb128: i think that might be best [16:05] chrisccoulson: it doesn't seem to query for caps right away, only on demand [16:05] seb128: certainly we can't be blamed at this point for anti-social behaviour [16:05] LaserJock: http://lwn.net/Articles/370157/ is sad but true :-\ [16:05] right [16:05] pitti - want me to take the gpm item? i'm working on another fix for that patch anyway [16:05] chrisccoulson: that would be nice [16:05] chrisccoulson: then I'll look at nm-applet [16:06] cool, i can take that then. thanks [16:06] chrisccoulson: use libnotify from desktop PPA [16:06] chrisccoulson: merely starting g-p-m shouldn't trigger notify-osd [16:06] will do. thanks [16:06] * LaserJock stabs empathy, "why, oh why do you betray me just when I was learning to love you?!" [16:07] speaking about empathy, kenvandine how is the update going? [16:07] kenvandine, we should upload today if we want it in a3 [16:08] heh, maybe i should volunteer to maintain gpm in ubuntu. i seem to spend a lot of my time on it now ;) [16:08] * chrisccoulson hides [16:08] seb128, yeah... plan to [16:08] bigon wanted me to wait for his upload to debian, which he got done last night [16:08] i updated the patches already [16:11] mallard documentation is way nicer rendered in gecko than in webkit :) [16:11] nice [16:18] asac, gtk build on armel now btw [16:18] built rather [16:25] hi stormy_ [16:26] ArneGoetje, bryceh, ccheney, didrocks, kenvandine, pitti, Riddell, seb128, tkamppeter, tseliot - team meeting in 4 minutes (right?) [16:27] (no, 3) [16:27] rickspencer3, yup [16:27] hehe [16:27] yep, hey rickspencer3 ;) [16:27] * ArneGoetje is present [16:27] afternoon [16:27] yep [16:28] o/ [16:29] hi [16:29] hello! [16:29] thanks ara! [16:30] the upgrade testing topic is first, so we won't take too much of your time [16:30] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-02-23 [16:30] hey ara [16:31] has anyone been busy the last couple of weeks? [16:31] [16:31] rickspencer3, mostly playing golf :) [16:31] nope [16:31] * rickspencer3 taps gavel [16:31] first is actions from last meeting [16:31] heya [16:31] and I was the only one with an action, and I actually did it for a change! [16:32] rickspencer3 to engage QA wrt upgrade testings [16:32] so turns out ara has an upgrade testing plan she is working on [16:33] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Upgrade [16:33] ara, any comments or thoughts? [16:33] yes, sure [16:33] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Jams/Upgrade [16:34] what we want is that during the next UGJ, which occurs between Beta1 and Beta2, we encourage people joining the Jam to upgrade their systems to Lucid [16:34] hi [16:35] we will try to train their LoCo contacts how to help others to report the bugs [16:35] and look for possible regressions [16:35] ara is there anyway to get started looking at certain upgrade scenarios sooner? [16:35] hopefully that will give us different configurations, with different drivers, packages installed, etc. [16:35] UGJ? [16:36] Ubuntu Global Jam [16:36] yes, that was my next question. that maybe that was a bit late in the dev cycle [16:36] hello everyone [16:36] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuGlobalJam [16:37] rickspencer3, what kind of scenarios are you most interested in? [16:37] ara, also, apparantly upgrades for uses who have proprietary drivers installed has been problematic in the past [16:37] so folks who have been upgrading over multiple versions, and have proprietary graphics or wireless drivers [16:37] naah :-P [16:38] one thing that woudl be particularly interesting is a dapper->hardy->lucid upgrade with nvidia drivers installed [16:38] anyone have any thoughts for ara about how we could work together to get some of this testing done? [16:38] rickspencer3, we are running a project for people with ATI & nVIDIA cards with proprietary drivers [16:38] rickspencer3, http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/xorg_prop_drivers/ [16:38] since that will exercise pretyt much all the changes that we applied to them (l-r-m -> dkms -> alternatives) [16:38] rickspencer3, we can tell the same testers to test the upgrade [16:38] pitti, I got a friend who had that broken but with ->karmic rather than ->lucid [16:38] pitti: I can do the multiple upgrades on nvidia but not today [16:39] (not really a meeting topic) [16:39] so, for the nVIDIA one, we have quite a long list of people willing to test things [16:39] nice [16:39] here is the list of people who signed up: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Testing/ProprietaryDrivers/WeeklyProgram [16:40] in the case of ATI we don't have a (working) proprietary driver yet [16:40] but, the difference is that it is not the same thing to ask people to install lucid fresh in a different partition [16:40] tseliot, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-180/+bug/467490 you might want to look at for lucid [16:40] than telling them to upgrade their own system [16:40] Launchpad bug 467490 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-180 "nvidia drivers don't work due to -Q in obsolete /etc/modprobe.d/lrm-video" [High,Triaged] [16:41] ara, what is the best way for us to engage you now, in terms of doing some testing earlier and with a few different scenarios? [16:41] should we have a call or something? [16:41] or a specific irc meeting for this topic? [16:42] rickspencer3, either is fine [16:42] who here is interested in joining me in this discussion? [16:42] (question for everyone, not just Canonical staff) [16:42] seb128: /etc/modprobe.d/lrm-video shouldn't exist any more. But (unfortunately) the file is not removed because it used to live in /etc... [16:42] o/ [16:43] * rickspencer3 cues cricket noises [16:43] tseliot, right, need to preinst clean it [16:43] ara, thanks so much for your engagement so far on this [16:43] rickspencer3, can do ;-) [16:43] seb128: hopefully only in nvidia-common instead of doing the same thing in each driver [16:44] I'll follow up with you to discuss next steps [16:44] rickspencer3, sure, thanks! [16:44] ara, sound ok? [16:44] great [16:44] ok, moving on, or any last thoughts wrt upgrade testing? [16:44] tseliot: if that's a dep of all of them, cleaning up in -common is fine [16:44] pitti: yep [16:44] * rickspencer3 has lost control of the meeting [16:44] rickspencer3: would be interesting to have mvo in the call [16:45] aaah [16:45] pitti, ack [16:45] good idea [16:45] rickspencer3: since he runs the automatic upgrade testing machinery [16:45] pitti: actually all of the modaliases depend on nvidia-common [16:45] yeah [16:45] ok, back to the agenda ... [16:45] kenvandine, partner update? [16:45] ok [16:46] hopefully things are quieting down from DX, shifting to bug fix mode [16:46] OLS just landed the rb plugin for the music store and libubuntuone, and seeded to the CD [16:46] however the store isn't actually live yet, but will be by alpha-3 [16:46] kewl [16:46] all the "go live bits" should be server side [16:47] so no more changes on the desktop before going live, we think [16:47] ubuntuone-client no longer provides the applet, but just a preferences tool [16:47] kenvandine, so it sounds like A3 is substantially what Ubuntu will be at release? [16:47] oops, sorry, thought you were done [16:47] there is more of a control panel in the works, which will land after alpha-3 pending a FFE [16:47] :) [16:48] there is still a question on how you get feedback/notifications on the state of U1 file syncing [16:48] hehe [16:48] without the applet, you really how no status [16:48] which was planned for the Me Menu [16:48] but didn't make it [16:48] that's all i have [16:49] kenvandine, I logged a but on that am talking to design team about fixing that last point [16:49] rickspencer3, great [16:49] I wonder if we can just cut the control panel and bug fix from here on out [16:49] i bet pitti and seb128 are glad the applet is gone though :) [16:49] ACTION: rickspencer3 to bring up stopping new work with statik [16:49] rickspencer3, i think there are parts of that that are important [16:49] kenvandine, ack [16:49] it's not really a benchmark thing (since U1 is off by default), but it's still a CPU killer [16:50] yeah, bring it up with statik [16:50] so it's nice for power consumption, etc. [16:50] but shipping is a feature, and shipping solid code is a great feature ;) [16:50] pitti, indeed.. pgraner had some interesting stats on that at the sprint [16:50] rickspencer3, yup :) [16:50] pitti, yeah, the new design just needs a tweak here and there and will be much lighter in terms of UI and other overhead [16:50] thanks kenvandine [16:50] the sync daemon is pretty much the death for any battery anyway, though :) [16:51] Riddell, Kubuntu? [16:51] pitti, pgraner did some benchmarking... quite scary [16:51] :/ [16:51] * generally in a good position for feature freeze [16:51] * Qt 4.6.2 now packaged, will be uploaded after alpha freeze [16:51] * KOffice 2 also packaged, will be uploaded after alpha freeze [16:51] * Mozilla approved the KDE integration patches to firefox, asac reviewing for inclusion [16:51] * Kubuntu Netbook Remix now in a working state for Lucid [16:51] * CDs no longer oversized, yay [16:51] * kdebindings not compiling on ARM (the important bits do compile so we can just work around the unimportant bits) [16:51] * ubiquity currently has some bugs, at least one blocking alpha 3 [16:51] * RC bugs http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9 [16:51] * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Todo [16:51] Riddell: oh, nice! how long did you sqeeze the CDs until they fit? :) [16:52] hehe [16:52] the review of kde changes looks good [16:52] thanks Riddell [16:52] pitti: some gnome stuff had crept on so we threw that out and we cut out some artwork that wasn't vital [16:52] will go up after a3 ... Riddell: will take care of FFed? [16:53] always a pleasure to see the awesome work of the Kubuntu team, you guys rock [16:53] asac: great. yes I can [16:53] asac, Riddell when we have a new mozilla maintainer next week, I will ask him to engage with the KDE mozilla stuff [16:54] Riddell, thanks [16:54] moving on ... [16:54] oops [16:54] forgot to put in mozilla status === jono_ is now known as jono [16:54] ccheney, how is the the new support model work going? === jono is now known as Guest66435 [16:55] from what i know ccheney is quite close to get epiphany done [16:55] rickspencer3: got the first pass of soup and glib done, working on webkit now [16:55] asac, overall is the project on track schedule wise? [16:55] first pass meaning when i get to higher levels things might turn up, but they seem to work as is currently [16:55] rickspencer3: as much as it can be ... [16:56] the staging happens here: https://edge.launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ffox35/+packages [16:56] (sorry for reuse of ppa name) [16:56] we have about one month to get the high risk apps done now [16:56] ug [16:56] with epiphany being the most important one [16:56] given how long the glib/soup thing took, that sounds at risk to me [16:57] rickspencer3: well, epiphany is special [16:57] its a backport to a new library [16:57] the others are just forward porting to xulrunner-1.9.2 and we already have a few done ... with more coming every day [16:57] ok [16:57] the high risks are here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/FirefoxNewSupportModel/xulrunner-list at the bottom [16:58] ACTION: rickspencer3 to follow up on new mozilla support model work offline so he can sleep tonight [16:58] good [16:58] thanks asac and ccheney [16:58] moving on [16:58] release status [16:58] * rickspencer3 hands mic to pitti [16:58] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-3.html [16:59] so, we are pretty good for alpha-3, great job team! [16:59] pretty much the only thing that's left is boot performance [16:59] which is what I wanted to discuss a bit [16:59] http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100223.1-max-netbook.png [16:59] ! [16:59] current state of the art [16:59] I have to say that this is a very "lucky" chart [17:00] usually they look like http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100223-max-netbook.png , with a huge "dent" in teh CPU bar at the end [17:00] we have one remaining thing in the pipe (drop notify-osd startup on boot) [17:00] but then that's pretty much what we can do with sane amount of efforts [17:00] clearly we didn't reach "10 s" in the current state [17:00] so my question is, how much further do we need to push this? [17:01] I had a look at optimizing udisks, and there might be some doable things there, but we need to start it [17:01] ACTION: rickspencer3 to follow up with robbiew on startup time targets [17:01] and I don't know of anything obvious any more which we can drop or defer [17:02] pitti: so there is 3s difference between reboots, or just how the install happens to lay it out on disk or what exactly? [17:02] unless anyone has a bright idea still? [17:02] pitti, seb128 great job!! [17:02] thanks [17:02] ccheney: no, there were a couple of package updates in between [17:02] pitti: oh ok [17:02] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/bootcharts/daniel-lucid-20100222-1.png [17:02] I'd say this is a typical chart [17:02] rickspencer3: I'm fine with stopping after notify-osd work...for boot perf [17:03] pitti, no plymouth [17:03] I have an idea how to fix the dent at the end, but it involves bad hackery [17:03] ? [17:03] and the DX team doesn't like that [17:03] seb128: right, plymouth is terminally broken on my mini [17:03] I need to uninstall it to work with it at all [17:03] * tseliot cough cough [17:03] everyone stop talking!! [17:03] didn't you see what robbiew just said [17:03] :) [17:03] :) [17:03] ;-) [17:03] lol [17:03] j/k [17:04] so, I think we can do some remaining thing and get a consistent 12 s [17:04] with 11 on lucky cases [17:04] another thing [17:04] that's a *real* 12 s right? [17:04] that's celebration day, so. End of bootspeed fight? ;) [17:04] bootchart itself has 8% overhead [17:04] not under magical never actually achieved circumstances [17:04] didrocks, not quite, but soon [17:04] i. e. if bootchart says 11 s, it's 10.3 without boot chart [17:04] robbiew: ^ [17:04] sorry to barge in...just saying that given where we are at in the release cycle, we shouldn't be doing any invasive changes to meet bootspeed targets [17:04] thanks robbiew [17:04] rickspencer3: Scott's charts are the bare, brutal reality [17:05] no hacks at all [17:05] you didn't barge in, we summoned you [17:05] clean install [17:05] didrocks, I would say fight just start, we need to stay there ;-) [17:05] robbiew: do you know how much I love you for saying that? [17:05] pitti, I was referring to certain other demos that show fast boot by other distros ;) [17:05] lol [17:05] do you know how much I love you for the work you've done with work item tracker :P [17:05] * rickspencer3 doesn't want to start trolling other communities [17:05] we got 59 work items done for this! [17:05] and 3 in progress [17:06] robbiew, be careful what you ask for, the desktop team will actually do it! [17:06] * rickspencer3 sinff [17:06] :) [17:06] ok, so I consider optimizing udisks as a hobby thing [17:06] (it's strange, it only started to eat so much CPU recently; nothing serious changed since that in udisks itself) [17:06] pitti, based on my experience that means we can expect to see it in the distro on Monday? [17:07] j/k [17:07] rickspencer3: absolutely [17:07] pitti, thanks for the update [17:07] rickspencer3: libnotify is in the desktop PPA [17:07] just blocked by the A3 freeze [17:07] so pursuant to robbiew's point [17:07] and nm-applet/g-p-m are in the works [17:07] pitti, soft freeze, just upload ;-) [17:07] what work items do we have for post A3? [17:07] * rickspencer3 would he happy to see an empty list here [17:07] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html [17:07] 2/3 of it is "DX integration" (hello kenvandine) [17:07] urg [17:07] hehe [17:08] right [17:08] so the other 1/3 [17:08] most bits are just stragglers from alpha-3 (some cleanup, wirting docs, QA) [17:08] can we cut those? [17:08] wasn't the red part supposed to become smaller? :O [17:08] ah, that kind of stuff [17:08] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-gdmsetup [17:08] cut [17:08] that's a target of opportunity, seb128's pet project [17:08] :) [17:08] and I'd really like to see it [17:08] with an afternoon's work we can make a huge difference there [17:08] ok, but we can't have our cake and eat it too [17:09] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-language-selector [17:09] I just need to stop sleeping [17:09] ;-) [17:09] I added that one as well as a target of opportunity [17:09] oh, seb128's stole on my done WI on gdmsetup :-) [17:09] I'm not saying "no" but an afternoon's work is one or two bugs fixed [17:09] * didrocks runs and cries ;) [17:09] seb128: "ToP"; if it's not done, it's not done [17:09] * pitti desperately points to the "Low" priority [17:09] and bug fixes can push ToP out of the release [17:09] absolutely [17:09] sorry, "ToO" actually :) [17:10] didrocks, if you want some WIs I can give you some too... [17:10] rickspencer3: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html is really nice, though :) [17:10] ok, but just be aware that any new work is a direct trade for quality [17:10] "how precise can you draw a bar to 3.0000000 work items" [17:10] seb128: well, as a pet project gdmsetup can be fun ;) [17:10] heh [17:11] ok, I'll get off my soapbox now [17:11] :) [17:11] pitti, done? [17:11] done [17:11] other than that, bug hunting time! [17:11] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/lucid-fixes-report.html [17:11] pitti, thank you ... you have done an amazing job navigating the team through a huge amount of work this cycle [17:11] really remarkable leadership [17:11] we need to crank the number to >= 5000 [17:11] * rickspencer3 does little solute [17:11] *blush* [17:12] pitti, nice list, let's crash qa.ubuntu because it can't handle how big the list will get! [17:12] pitti, I just closed a bunch of desktop-lucid-dx-integration beta-1 items [17:12] seb128: yay you [17:12] the blueprint has things which were already done, like compiz changes and some dx tasks [17:12] rickspencer3: ... or firefox :) [17:12] hehe [17:13] ok, moving on, one last quick topic, from me [17:13] mvo has brought into being the Featured category for software-center [17:13] robert_ancell made a great suggestion for how to fill it up [17:13] here are my thoughts, please comment ... [17:14] rickspencer3 starts a blueprint [17:14] define ideal number of featured apps [17:14] define criteria for featured apps [17:14] Is a GUI app [17:14] Does not replace a default app [17:14] Does not replace another featured app [17:14] Is well designed for the task and robust - makes the platform look good [17:14] solicit suggestions from blueprint [17:14] desktop team goes through list and picks [17:14] oops, lost the formatting [17:14] things like... [17:14] GIMP!!! [17:14] the basic idea is that we get the community to suggest apps, and we go through and compare them to criteria and decide in this meeting [17:14] I suppose? [17:14] or inkscape? [17:14] "Does not replace a default app" -> Abiword is already in the "featured" list and it replaces OOo [17:15] didrocks, yeah, good point [17:15] maybe that's not a great criteria [17:15] I actually like that criterion [17:15] didrocks, maybe there should be a shade of meaning to it [17:15] didrocks, the current list is random pick from mvo right now [17:15] one of Ubuntu's founding principles is to select the best app for one purpose, after all [17:15] I just put abiword in because gimp was lonely [17:15] just to have something there [17:15] * seb128 hugs mvo [17:15] like abi is a work processor, and writer is a word processor, but they don't replace each other [17:15] I'm fine with whatever policy we come up with :) [17:16] mvo, great work! [17:16] mvo: inkscape would be a great addition, I think [17:16] * pitti cheers and hugs mvo [17:16] * rickspencer3 would bring up that mvo has also added PPAs to software-center but doesn't want to derail the meeting [17:16] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~b-sides/b-sides/trunk/annotate/head:/minimal-all <-- I started a list here [17:16] there is some crack there but a bunch of those meet your criteria [17:16] b-sides, awesome! [17:16] pitti, seb128 thoughts on me starting a blueprint for this? [17:16] we are talking about "fifth toe" like apps like from back in the day [17:16] rickspencer3, +1 [17:17] seems like the right place to discuss and get feedback on a "feature" [17:17] I mostly agree with abiword being there. Just point the "replace" this. I don't know how to say "don't replace completely a default app" or "have a different targeted audience"? [17:17] rickspencer3, blueprint, wikipage, as you want [17:17] rickspencer3: keeping a list in a wiki page seems better, but I don't mind much [17:17] seb128, I'll go blueprint, seems more "official" [17:17] ok [17:17] with BP we'll have WIs [17:17] * mvo hugs jcastro for the name [17:17] I have an idea, I'll take care of it [17:17] :) [17:17] could brainstorm be used for this app review? [17:17] wiki makes easier to keep track of who changes what to [17:17] mvo: the reason I didn't push b-sides as a project was that I knew it would come handy in software center some day. [17:18] heh :) [17:18] ACTION: rickspencer3 to start blueprint to define criteria and associated wiki page to capture list of Featured apps [17:18] ;-) [17:18] any other business? [17:18] lucid rocks [17:19] (once we get plymouth fixed *cough*) [17:19] rickspencer3, I think you have to exclude abiword [17:19] :-) [17:19] bryceh, because it's in Universe? [17:19] if there start being exceptions to "does not replace..." then the peanut gallery is going to start requesting alternatives for >everything< [17:19] bryceh, right, we'll have to define it carefully [17:19] I [17:20] so TBird is out? :-) [17:20] so, no vlc as well? [17:20] m thinking of including Use Case or something [17:20] hmmm [17:20] good points [17:20] that's the issue with popular softwares ;) [17:20] there's plenty of good apps out there [17:20] hehe [17:20] I just don't think we need 5 photo organizers, tbh [17:20] right [17:20] it should be "the rest of the disc" [17:20] that was the one that concerned me the most [17:20] it's good that we're defining one complete set that is our opinion of "the best collection" [17:21] how about "no more than 1 replacement app"? [17:21] let's call the meeting done, but continue this discussion as desired? [17:21] pitti, sound ok? [17:21] rickspencer3, stay firm :-) [17:21] apps that would be awesome to have but might be too corner case or not enough room. A person should be able to select them all and install them and have a better ubuntu overall, not more mp3 players, etc. [17:21] I would say 0 duplicate [17:21] I really hate open office, but I do think this is the right way to go [17:21] perhaps "if it is a replacment app it should have a distinguising use case" or something [17:21] * rickspencer3 taps gavel [17:21] rickspencer3: I'd rather have no replacement apps at first, TBH [17:21] but let's see how the lists turn out [17:21] pitti, ++ [17:22] ok, so no tbird, no abiword [17:22] we can categorize them by "replacement app" and "entirely new crack" [17:22] rickspencer3: these are the criteria I used: http://castrojo.wordpress.com/2009/11/28/attack-of-the-killer-bs/ [17:22] 0 seems good as well to me, just be careful and prepared to have a lot of "why xxx isn't there as it's more famous than default app" (like vlc) [17:22] but also no (list of music players, list of photo organizers) [17:22] * rickspencer3 looks [17:22] didrocks, that's fine, and it's another kind of discussion and a good one to have [17:23] * mvo will split this out into its own source package "app-install-data-featured" owned by ~ubuntu-core-dev [17:23] bryceh: I'm not afraid of the discussion, just by the number of duplicates of this discussion we will have ;) But well, thinking about it, it makes full sense to have 0 duplicate [17:23] jcastro, thanks, your criteria makes sense [17:23] we need to phrase the no dupes correctly [17:24] because afterall you can edit photos with f-spot, so why include Gimp? [17:24] FSVO "edit" [17:24] (obviously we should include the gimp imo) [17:24] FSVO? [17:24] "250 times the number of features" != "replacement" :) [17:24] rickspencer3, or that owriter can edit text files just as good as gedit ;-) [17:24] hehe [17:25] rickspencer3: "for some value of" [17:25] bryceh: let's remove OOo then :) [17:25] bryceh: oupsss, already tried ;) [17:25] didrocks, okay! [17:25] heh [17:25] bryceh: svgalib can draw rectangles as well as X can [17:25] *cough* [17:25] pitti, wayland ftw [17:25] we'll need to phrase it carefully so we don't end up with alternate docks and tweak apps and other crack [17:25] otherwise people will start filing bugs on things we can't support [17:25] they do that all the time [17:26] lol [17:26] "I got this XML optimizer and my gconf file is a mess!" [17:26] ok, so I think "does not substantially overlap existing functionality", "does not add significant amounts of new functionality" [17:26] they will not stop because you write a guideline [17:26] good thing we have a "wontfix" button [17:26] rickspencer3: that sounds good [17:26] seb128: yeah but we shouldn't encourage that in software-center I think [17:26] rickspencer3: i. e. "gimp in", "banshee out"? [17:26] but the overall point is that Featured "adds" apps to your desktop, does not replace existing apps [17:26] seb128, I guess the reasoning is to have something documented to point to when we say "no" [17:26] right [17:27] rickspencer3, ""does not add significant amounts of new functionality"" ... -not? [17:27] seb128, what do you think about the idea of the desktop team being the arbiters of the list, determining what is in and out"? [17:27] rickspencer3, makes sense [17:27] Us being anyone who shows up to the desktop team meetings regularly [17:27] it's basically an extension of the seeds [17:27] we are already doing that for the default desktop [17:28] ok, I think I know what to do [17:28] and there will be a blueprint to discuss [17:28] mvo: actually, could we handle that in the seeds, or does it need to be maintained somewhere else? [17:28] mvo, are you happy with that? [17:28] looks like a break at the hack fest :) [17:28] lol [17:29] pitti: of course you can maintain this featured package [17:29] mvo: ah, it's a package of .desktop files? [17:29] is the me menu supposed to show me my pic beside my name when the menu is clicked? because currently it only shows the defaul pic holder picture [17:29] pitti: its just a menu file in menu.d [17:29] is that known? [17:29] pitti: app-install/menu.d [17:30] tgpraveen12: known bug [17:30] rickspencer3: I'm fine with whatever policy you/your team comes up with [17:30] mvo, <3 [17:30] mvo: I see, danke [17:30] mvo - thanks so much for the PPA access in the software-center [17:30] ! [17:30] I think it works really nicely [17:30] yeah mvo that is /sweet/ [17:30] :) [17:31] so now you can install apps from PPAs totally graphically!! [17:31] * mvo is happy, kudos to tremolux who did most of the work [17:31] thanks tremolux!! [17:31] rickspencer3: EOM? [17:32] can't wait to use it [17:32] pitti, yeah, a while ago [17:32] I thought I said like twice :/ [17:32] hehe [17:32] :) [17:32] thanks everyone [17:32] thank you pitti [17:32] * pitti -> sister's 30th birthday party [17:32] and great job on boot time [17:32] I'm off for tonight then [17:32] pitti, are you going to give her Ubuntu for her birthday? [17:32] pitti, enjoy [17:32] I can get you a good deal on a disc [17:33] rickspencer3: doesn't work, she's already using it :) [17:33] * ccheney bbia running to store for medicine [17:33] although Jaunty [17:33] I only see her three times a year, and her computer even less often [17:33] well, when she sees SFTS features, she'll want Lucid [17:33] :) [17:33] bye bye pitti [17:33] mvo, if you can comment on https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/bluez/+bug/519357 [17:33] Launchpad bug 519357 in bluez "conffile prompt on upgrade from 8.04 to 10.04" [High,New] === baptistemm is now known as bmm_work [17:51] any empathy gurus around? [17:56] kenvandine - all of the presence items in the me menu are insensitive when i open empathy at the moment (so I can't change my presence status), but they become sensitive if i restart the panel. is that an issue you're aware of? [17:56] or perhaps i broke something here? ;) [17:59] chrisccoulson: the gpm bug you discussed was with Alt + 7, right? [17:59] didrocks - you might have to remind me which bug ;) [17:59] gpm has a lot of them.... [18:00] chrisccoulson: I just remembered you were testing keycode [18:00] LaserJock, you should just ask tour question [18:00] didrocks - ah, that was for the display-mode switching (Fn+F8), which is handled by g-s-d [18:00] on my laptop, the combination produces the same scancode as the "p" key [18:00] chrisccoulson, I'm seeing something similar (well, I haven't tried resetarting the panel, but presense isn't showing up) [18:01] Nafai - thanks. so it's not just me then ;) [18:01] chrisccoulson: oh ok, not that one so, I have now a strange behavior with Alt + 7 (which is used to switch window on weechat, for instance ;)) [18:01] didrocks - what behaviour do you see? [18:02] chrisccoulson: it's drawing some kind of square as when you didn't release Alt+tab around the focused window [18:03] is that alt+7 or alt+f7? [18:03] Alt + 7 [18:03] hmm, i'm not sure about that. that's not handled by anything on my laptop [18:03] (with the shift modifier in an azerty keyboard to get the 7) ;) [18:04] we'll see tomorrow, that's not my laptop day btw, starting with a nvidia crash, and so on :) [18:05] didrocks - you use nvidia? [18:05] chrisccoulson: right, the blob driver [18:06] seb128: could you have a look at Bug #526599 , does it have enough info for the gnome-keyring bug? [18:06] Bug 526599 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/526599 is private [18:07] vish - you might need to subscribe people to that. it's got nobody subscribed to it yet [18:07] did you just submit it now via apport? [18:07] seb128: I'm trying to get advice on bug #526593 which I just filed. I don't know if it's empathy's fault or telepathy or ? [18:07] Launchpad bug 526593 in empathy "Jabber messages are silently dropped in empathy" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526593 [18:08] chrisccoulson: i wasnt able to run full gdb :s , i just submitted it now. [18:08] LaserJock, you can try asking #telepathy [18:08] vish, can you subscribe me to the bug? [18:08] seb128: ok [18:08] vish, it has not been retraced yet I don't have access [18:09] seb128: try now , just sub'd you [18:09] vish, thanks [18:09] np.. [18:10] vish, is your password in the stacktrace? [18:24] seb128, working on empathy... patch isn't building, should have it fixed soon [18:26] kenvandine, ok thanks [18:34] kenvandine, what update is supposed to add an icon to the ubuntu one store? [18:34] kenvandine, but I still don't have one there [18:34] humm [18:34] the one you sponsored for me [18:35] 0.0.2-0ubuntu2 [18:35] i think [18:35] yup [18:35] oh, let me try that [18:35] I didn't actually build this one, just looked at the diff and uploaded [18:36] I though the fix was in yesterday's one [18:38] bzr unshelve [18:38] wrong window... [18:39] kenvandine, ok works [18:39] kenvandine, sorry for the noise ;-) [18:39] np :) [18:40] seb128 - i will work on that gpm and gsd fix now, but it's probably too late for a3 isn't it? [18:40] chrisccoulson, soft freeze, we might squeeze those [18:40] chrisccoulson, thanks [18:41] chrisccoulson, I didn't manage to do gsd today sorry [18:41] seb128 - i think we can wait. if it was going to cause any crashes, people would probably have reported it by now [18:41] I always make plans for the day and keep adding stuff [18:41] and i checked through all the latest crash reports today [18:41] and never get everything I wanted done finished ;-) [18:41] heh ;) [18:42] whoever does g-s-d there is a pending patch for app indicators too! [18:42] * jcastro tries to sneak in the planet [18:43] seb128, kenvandine: I have a problem with gdm... cannot login anymore... :( When clicking on my username or hitting enter, gdm refreshes the screen and displays the same screen again. Then I select my username again and the bottom bat with the language selection and stuff appears, but there is no password field where I could enter my password... just a cancel button... :( Any idea? [18:43] jcastro - that depends on quite a large libgnomekbs patch doesn't it? [18:43] * jcastro whistles [18:43] that's going to take some reviewing ;) [18:43] probably best to wait for after a3 for that one [18:45] chrisccoulson, yes [18:45] jcastro, we might be able to squeeze gnome-bluetooth or vino in ;-) [18:45] are those ready? [18:45] he's going as fast as he can [18:45] no hurry [18:45] is there any more appindicator work left to do? [18:45] I told him to not hurry [18:45] I just didn't check emails today [18:45] chrisccoulson, yes but help on reviewing things first would be welcome [18:46] chrisccoulson: a few more. gnome-bt, vino, brasero should be ready today/tomorrow (probably post a3) [18:46] we have people writting code now [18:46] but be block on reviewing [18:46] after that gnome-1-polkit is all, after that it's stuff in main but not on the CD, so those will be opportunistic [18:47] and fixing gnome-cc is still on the list to fix [18:47] what is broken there? [18:47] but it's mostly done and in lucid already [18:47] the display properties checbox [18:47] james_w, you are brilliant. thanks [18:47] doesn't use GtkStatusIcon so it never showed up until I went through the app and found it [18:48] seb128: the icon that has the green/pink things in it for display stuff [18:48] jcastro - that's gnome-settings-daemon [18:48] is it? [18:48] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-settings-daemon/+bug/497875 [18:48] Launchpad bug 497875 in gnome-settings-daemon "Support Application Indicators" [Wishlist,In progress] [18:48] is that bug [18:49] that's just for the keyboard indicator stuff? [18:49] chrisccoulson: whichever one does "display preferences" [18:50] bryceh: \o/ [18:50] jcastro - the display preferences is part of gnome-cc, but the status icon is drawn by the xrandr plugin in g-s-d [18:50] Nafai: you found where that display icon was being done right? [18:50] chrisccoulson: ah ok. [18:50] the xrandr icon is a difficult one to port [18:50] chrisccoulson: after he finishes brasero, vino, and gnome-bt that will be next on his list [18:50] vish: ping [18:51] dobey: pong [18:51] chrisccoulson: if it's hard maybe we should ask jpetersen to start on it immediately? [18:52] jcastro - the issue is when you open the menu, g-s-d draws an identifier label on each screen, so you know which screen you're adjusting [18:52] right [18:52] but i don't think appindicator supports that [18:52] vish: can you change the emblem-ubuntuone-unsynchronized in Humanity to be actually different than the -synchronizing one? [18:52] * vish checks what the icon is [18:53] vish: i think it's two gray arrows, while synchronizing is the same two arrows with colors [18:54] dobey: ah , those were the icons you sent me earlier to be included in the theme [i think] [18:54] isnt it -updating , btw? [18:54] no [18:54] vish: this is the emblems, not the panel status icons [18:54] (the panel status icons can be removed even) [18:54] seb128 - would you mind trying the gpm or gsd change once i've pushed them to bzr? I still can't reproduce those warnings here.... [18:55] i must be very unlucky! [18:55] dobey: ah ,right [18:55] dobey: ok , i'll update them soon [18:56] vish: I suspect people are assuming that the grey arrows means that stuff is synchronizing, even though it isn't [18:57] chrisccoulson: when ted gets back let's snag him and see what he says [18:57] vish: so having it be something visibly different would be useful. the same emblem in ubuntuone-client-gnome is a cloud with the red (X) on top [18:57] yeah , quite misleadin [18:57] chrisccoulson: maybe he'll have some insight on how to do it [18:57] jcastro - yeah, possibly [18:57] thanks [18:57] vish: thanks [18:58] dobey: sure will fix it , bte , the name is now changed from emblem-ubuntuone-updating.svg , to -synchronizing.svg ? [18:58] btw* [18:59] vish: oh no, it's still -updating [18:59] k.. [18:59] vish: sorry. i just misremembered the name [18:59] np.. [18:59] chrisccoulson: then we'll just add a comment to the g-s-d bug so when he wakes up tomorrow he'll know what to do [19:00] rickspencer3: did you encounter the issue on bug #411788? You assigned it to me and it wasn't on my bug list for lucid as it's target 1. on jolicloud which isn't Ubuntu 2. jolicloud is based on jaunty netbook-launcher version, not karmic [19:00] Launchpad bug 411788 in netbook-launcher "Mouse feedback off by quite a bit" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/411788 [19:00] didrocks, no, I just saw it [19:00] do with it as you will [19:01] rickspencer3: jolicloud is not ubuntu and it's based on jaunty version, so, it's not even karmic ubuntu-launcher :) I'll just unassign [19:01] thanks didrocks [19:01] rickspencer3: don't know if you look at my activity report but I put the bug page in shape at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UNE/lucid-bugs [19:01] jcastro, Well, I found the code where the display settings was [19:01] y/w :) [19:02] jcastro, but I haven't looked at it closely [19:02] didrocks, k [19:02] Nafai: ok don't worry about it for now, concentrate on the three you have now and when ted comes back I'll figure it out and see about putting jpetersen on it [19:03] ok [19:03] gnome-bt on the panel for A3 would be sooooo nice. [19:07] * dobey wonders why people need a bluetooth icon on their panels [19:09] dobey: to shut it off from sucking my battery. :p [19:10] ah [19:10] "to work around other problems in the system" :) === fate_ is now known as fate [19:30] dobey: when does the icon show up? when a sync fails or as soon as a file is added? [19:31] vish: the unsynchronized icon? [19:31] yeah [19:32] vish: It should show up on a file whenever the file needs updating (either you just added it, or it changed remotely) [19:32] or it changed locally [19:32] ah , thanks.. [19:33] oh, pitti, it's not my gpm patch that makes notify-osd start at the beginning of the session [19:33] phew :) [19:33] it's the upstream notification code [19:49] all ... nice little posting from a Mac switcher: [19:49] http://www.starryhope.com/linux/ubuntu/2010/os-x-to-ubuntu-2-years-later/ [19:50] note the section on the Gimp for a real user's perspective on image editing [19:50] * rickspencer3 off to lunch/gym [20:49] bratsche, hi! [20:49] Hey seb128 [20:50] bratsche, I did upload your chromium csd fix this morning [20:50] bratsche, the awn bug seems a different one [20:50] could be similar to bug #524869? [20:50] Launchpad bug 524869 in gtk+2.0 "Login window has title bar with buttons and frame" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524869 [20:51] seb128: Did you upload my second patch? The one with the one-liner fix in it? [20:52] Because that one causes Chromium to have WM decorations when it shouldn't, and I think that's maybe the same problem awn has. [20:52] Uhh.. I mean, the first patch causes that. The second patch fixes it. [20:52] bratsche, yes [20:52] bratsche, 0ubuntu6 fixes the chromium issue [20:52] bratsche, cf bug #526589 [20:52] Oh, but awn still has an issue then? [20:52] Launchpad bug 526589 in gtk+2.0 "Windows are being decorated that shouldn't be (Chromium and Audacious for example)" [Low,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526589 [20:52] Ah [20:53] chrisccoulson: I identified the code in nm-applet as well; should be easy to fix [20:53] pitti, heh, aren't you supposed to be away tonight? [20:54] seb128: just returned [20:54] oh ok [20:54] pitti, pretend you didn't and enjoy your evening :p [20:54] it was the small kind of party, with parents and grandparents [20:54] I see [20:54] seb128: ah, I'm going to [20:54] ;-) [20:54] but I have this nm-applet/notify-osd thing in my head, y'know :) [20:55] btw did you look at how much difference my lazy icon loading change do? [20:55] I've been looking at recent charts but there is no cpu use near the line now [20:56] not sure why, I would expect the change to improve that but not to delete the cpu use [20:56] seb128: it's not easy to see [20:56] seb128: since the cutoff point is mostly before the point when nm-appplet connects these days [20:56] we've gotten too good :) [20:57] hehe [20:57] nice problem to have i guess [20:57] lol [20:57] kenvandine, thanks for empathy update ;-) [20:57] seb128: I hardly see that nm-applet blob at all any more, though [20:57] np [20:57] seb128: perhaps it's just entirely gone now? [20:57] pitti, ok, so the change seems to work fine ;-) [20:57] I was expecting it to cut most of the cpu use but still having some [20:58] maybe it was over what I was expecting and it's not noticable now [20:58] seb128: I have 9 charts on the mini, and on neither of them is that late CPU blib [20:58] blip [20:58] in any case I guess we can consider it fixed now [20:58] which seems to indicate that it's working perfectly :) [20:58] excellent ;-) [20:58] seb128: absolutely [20:58] the actual connection happens much much later here (needs to wait for password in keyring dialog) [20:58] that's why I don't see it at all any more, I suppose [20:59] I will try on a wired eth tomorrow [20:59] hey pitti - that's good that it's easy to fix [20:59] I plan to reinstall my mini tomorrow [20:59] seb128: look at this: http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100219.1-max-netbook.png [20:59] i'm just testing gpm now [20:59] seb128: it's clearly there [20:59] seb128: and nothing on this one: http://people.canonical.com/~scott/daily-bootcharts/20100223.1-max-netbook.png [20:59] chrisccoulson: nm-applet does a notify_init() and a capability query right in its constructor [21:00] chrisccoulson: I'm going to move the capability flag into a function which does lazy initialization [21:00] pitti - that's pretty much what gpm is doing too. but the return value of the capabilities are never used anywhere [21:00] so i just removed the whole check ;) [21:01] yay [21:01] excellent, that works [21:01] shall i wait until A3 before uploading now? [21:02] there's no urgency is there? [21:02] chrisccoulson: is it just that change? or did you have something else? [21:02] chrisccoulson: no urgency release-wise, just mentally getting rid of this topic :) [21:03] pitti - there's also a change which should fix a memory error, that i still can't recreate (bug 525220) [21:03] Launchpad bug 525220 in gnome-settings-daemon "IA__g_object_new_valist: object class `GsdOsdNotification' has no property named `\u0002'" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/525220 [21:03] i can hold off until after we're unfrozen though, as it doesn't seem to cause any other issues [21:03] chrisccoulson: sounds good to me to upload; do you think it has a non-trivial regression potential? [21:04] pitti - yeah, the regression potential is fairly minimal [21:04] chrisccoulson: go ahead then [21:04] yeah, upload [21:05] cool, thanks [21:05] thanks to you! [21:06] chrisccoulson, are you near of the computer with the menu issue btw? [21:06] asac: I'd like to do a small nm-applet patch; how do you want this handled? should I upload, push my branch somewhere and ask you to merge? or do you want to review/merge first before upload? or..? [21:07] seb128 - i am. i'm on it at the moment [21:08] i'll take a look at that again later [21:08] ok [21:08] chrisccoulson, maybe start by local if there is any menu config in .config or .local [21:08] and if the menu editor have the same issue [21:16] seb128, that latest gtk patch you uploaded, does that make evo suck less? [21:16] because mine is indeed sucking less :) [21:16] kenvandine, yes, cody fixed the slowness issue [21:17] great [21:17] :) [21:17] it really is much better [21:17] see ;-) [21:17] * kenvandine is a much happier camper [21:18] * kenvandine hugs bratsche and seb128 [21:18] still can't believe nobody noticed [21:18] * seb128 hugs bratsche and kenvandine [21:18] * ccheney found out he had to go to the doctor, no OTC stuff available, then he prescribed $18/pill medication not covered by insurance so waiting for it to be changed now :( [21:19] seb128, after you pointed it out... i really can't believe i didn't notice.. [21:19] ;-) [21:19] anyway it's fixed now so all good [21:20] seb128 - gpm is just uploading now. do you want to sponsor the gsd upload too? (that has the same fix in as gpm) [21:20] chrisccoulson, sure! [21:21] thanks [21:21] thank you ;-) [21:21] chrisccoulson, did someone sayd you were awesome [21:21] baptistemm, thanks ;) [21:25] hrm. All my windows are determined to have window decorations, even ones like chromium and guake which aren't supposed to. :) [21:25] aquarius, what libgtk2.0-0 version do you use? [21:26] 2.19.5-1ubuntu6 according to dpkg [21:26] my evolution-data-server-2.28 is using a lot of cpu - does this backtrace from gdb attached to running eds make any sense: http://paste.ubuntu.com/382541/ ? [21:26] aquarius, did you restart your app since? [21:27] heh. maybe I didn't restart after upgrading. that's a good point ;) [21:27] aquarius, could you try? [21:29] ok, chromium now has no window decorations (hooray, and oops, I am stupid), but guake still does [21:29] aquarius, bug 524869 [21:29] Launchpad bug 524869 in gtk+2.0 "Login window has title bar with buttons and frame" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524869 [21:29] aquarius, bug #524869 I guess [21:29] ups [21:30] not sure what guake is [21:30] but that's the remaining known issue [21:30] seb128, yeah, that's probably it. I'll go fill in some details [21:30] thanks === tsimpson is now known as Guest5579 [21:43] bratsche, wb [21:43] bratsche, aquarius has decorations issue with "quake" too [21:43] whatever that is [21:43] ups [21:43] "guake" [21:43] guake. It's a drop-down terminal [21:46] guake looks pretty neat. i'm just installing it now ;) [21:46] * bratsche installs [21:46] Uhh. [21:46] I installed it, but it refuses to run. [21:47] I love it to bits, to the point where if I'm on someone else's machine I get annoyed by not being able to drop down a terminal with F2. :) [21:48] Oh I see. [21:48] asac: wrt. nm-applet, I reported that upstream (gnome bug 610881) and I'll send the git formatted patch there [21:48] Gnome bug 610881 in nm-applet "detect notification server capabilities on demand only" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed] http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=610881 [21:49] What's the pygtk equivalent to g_object_set()? [21:54] bratsche, gobject.set_properties()? [21:54] bratsche, http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygobject/class-gobject.html#method-gobject--set-property [21:54] obj.set_property("use-markup", True) # or whatever [21:55] or obj.props.use_markup = True # but I don't really understand .props and therefore don't trust it [21:55] seb128: Yeah, I just found it. Unfortunately apparently the property I need is a construct-only property. [21:55] I guess I need to change that. [21:56] didrocks: Thanks for switching yelp back to xulrunner. The GNOME and Ubuntu a11y community thanks you for it. :) [21:57] TheMuso, we had no strong opinion from the start, you should have raised it as a concern if that was one [21:57] TheMuso, we tried because debian did it and the gecko version had speed issues [21:58] TheMuso, we wouldn't have switched if somebody pointed there was a11y issues [21:58] well next time please ping when we break something [21:58] didrocks, do you know much about omf files? It looks like Mallard docs don't generate one [21:58] thanks ;-) [21:58] ok [21:58] hey robert_ancell [21:59] robert_ancell, omf has,were used for indexing [21:59] seb128: I wasn't awawre we had switched until I was informed of it a day or so ago. [21:59] TheMuso, robert_ancell did that start of the cycle [21:59] seb128, so it's obsolete now? [21:59] seb128: Ah ok. [21:59] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=610806 [21:59] robert_ancell, I'm not sure, that's one of the reason we did the 2.29 update today [21:59] Gnome bug 610806 in gnotravex "Conversion to Mallard documentation removed omf file." [Minor,Unconfirmed] [22:00] robert_ancell, didrocks had been talking to shaum on IRC [22:00] not sure if the update fixes that though [22:00] or if that's a bug [22:00] ok [22:00] would be worth trying if that's still an issue with today's update [22:00] ok, I got the nm-applet patch [22:01] seb128: since asac's already asleep, do you remember what you did for the nm-applet patch? [22:01] seb128: I submitted a git formatted patch upstream now, and would like to get it into our package as well now [22:01] hey robert_ancell, good morning [22:01] pitti, I pinged asac for sponsoring since they had other changes pending [22:01] pitti, hey [22:01] robert_ancell: how are you these days? how's OEM land? [22:02] pitti, hmm, I had a question for you last night... must remember before you go to bed... [22:02] robert_ancell, come back we need you there! [22:02] TheMuso, robert_ancell can we do Eastern edition in 287 minutes? [22:02] pitti, good, looking forward to getting back! [22:02] lol [22:02] * rickspencer3 needs to shower and fix up wiki [22:02] rickspencer3, sure [22:02] rickspencer3: Almost 5 hours, sure if you are aroun. :p [22:02] rickspencer3, you forget to specify seconds? ;-) [22:02] around even [22:02] seb128, lol [22:03] In other words, what should that time actually be? Looks like there is a typo there. [22:03] TheMuso, robert_ancell I meant it to be 28 minutes [22:03] but now it's 27 minutes [22:03] rickspencer3: Right, that makes more sense. :D [22:03] * rickspencer3 should have used unix time stamp [22:03] hey pitti [22:03] lol [22:04] pitti, i have a patch for indicator-me that fixes the launcher for empathy accounts... 2.29.91 changed it from "empathy -a" to "empathy-accounts" [22:04] pitti, is that ok to upload? [22:04] * ccheney bbl, picking up medicine for real this time :-\ [22:05] * ccheney needs the pain killers [22:06] kenvandine: sounds fine, go ahead [22:06] ok [22:06] thx [22:06] pitti, btw davidz rolled a gdu tarball now [22:06] seb128: thanks for doing gnome-media BTW. [22:07] seb128: wheeee! [22:07] TheMuso, you're welcome [22:07] pitti, ;-) [22:07] seb128: he still didn't release udisks, though [22:08] but gdu is the more important ABI here, so that's great [22:08] seb128: I'll update to the final version soon then [22:09] I can upload it to Debian git and experimental, and then sync to lucid after a3 [22:10] pitti, do you have any opinion on bug #517698? [22:10] Launchpad bug 517698 in gnome-disk-utility "developer manual should be in a separate package" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/517698 [22:12] seb128: sounds reasonable to me, although low priority [22:12] pitti, the user opened a bunch of theme [22:12] them [22:12] we have several application installed by default doing that [22:12] could be worth looking at for some extra space [22:13] indeed [22:27] meh, now I'm one dput away from closing the startup-speed spec and my last WI [22:27] yay \o/ [22:27] * chrisccoulson hugs pitti [22:27] I sent a MP for asac [22:27] but I'm not sure whether I should upload it now, or whether he wants to review first [22:29] screw it, I'll take the bullets [22:29] asac: would you mind merging https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~pitti/network-manager-applet/defer-notify-server-caps/+merge/20012 ? [22:30] asac: (or pulling, for cleaner history) [22:31] bryceh, thanks for your e-mail btw [22:31] i didn't realise we already had the XScreensaver patch in lucid [22:32] chrisccoulson, yep [22:33] i will look at preparing a SRU for that when i get some time. but i'm a little nervous, considering the fragility of gnome-power-manager in this area at the moment ;) [22:33] kenvandine: "document the dbus api: TODO" -> that's the last alpha-3 WI for desktop now [22:34] kenvandine: sounds like this could easily be moved to beta-1? Or do you intend to work on this by Thursday? [22:35] pitti, postpone it to beta 1 and go to bed! [22:35] :) [22:35] * pitti leaves it for kenvandine to decide about this and goes to bed then [22:35] night pitti! [22:36] I updated https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-startup-speed and https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/foundations-lucid-boot-performance now [22:36] great day [22:36] * pitti phears Keybuks' wrath [22:36] uhoh [22:36] tomorrow's daily chart should not have notify-osd any more \o/ [22:36] yay \o/ [22:36] * pitti ^5s chrisccoulson [22:36] nice! [22:36] :) [22:36] TheMuso, robert_ancell, anyone who cares: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-02-23 [22:36] updated [22:37] rickspencer3: would you mind renaming lucid-desktop-featured-applications to desktop-lucid-f-a for consistency? [22:37] * TheMuso reads [22:38] oops sorry [22:39] * pitti waves goodnight [22:39] rickspencer3, is there a feature app spec? [22:39] done [22:39] rickspencer3: cheers [22:39] 'night pitti [22:39] pitti, night [22:39] 'night pitti [22:39] I'm going to remember what I was going to ask pitti in about 10 minutes now :) [22:39] robert_ancell, I'm not telling because people will be mean to me when their favorite app does not make it [22:40] https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-featured-applications [22:40] rickspencer3, heh [22:40] robert_ancell, ^ [22:41] rickspencer3, add suggestions to that blueprint? [22:41] robert_ancell, no, to the attached wiki page [22:41] follow the spec link [22:41] robert_ancell, so long as they follow your criteria ;) [22:41] ok [22:42] robert_ancell, and feel free to comment on the right number of apps, and if the criteria should be different [22:42] it looked good to me [22:42] I will blog about it later today [22:42] * TheMuso has finished reading. [22:42] robert_ancell, ready to run through? [22:43] yes [22:43] so you guys missed ara [22:43] I am keen to start finding upgrade bugs asap [22:43] ara is keen to help us [22:43] yeah sounds good [22:43] she has some plans started, but they don't start until beta 1 [22:44] so we are going to discuss if we can perhaps do something starting sooner, given that we have some knowledge now about the kinds of things that lead to problems [22:44] Right [22:44] (such as installs that use proprietary hardware and have been upgraded over multiple releases) [22:45] if either of you want to join that call, or irc meeting or however we do it, let me know [22:45] partner update is that most everything has landed from Dx and OLS [22:46] I am going to politely suggest that remaining work from those teams be postponed so that we can focus on quality for what has landed [22:46] which is a lot! [22:46] including the music store! [22:46] ! [22:46] Kubuntu update, what can you say, that team is amazing [22:46] I'll second that. [22:46] re quality [22:47] thanks TheMuso [22:47] mozilla status is keeping me up at night [22:47] all this porting needs to happen, it is more or less on schedule but is taking waaaay longer than originally estimated [22:48] so then, *our* release status [22:48] we are in good shape wrt work items [22:48] please, for the love all that is good, stop adding features!! [22:48] hehe [22:48] heh [22:48] seriously, consider whether we really need that feature in Lucid more than fixing a bug [22:49] * rickspencer3 looks at robert_ancell, looks at seb128, looks at gdm settings [22:49] For an LTS, I agree. [22:49] I haven't had the time anyway... [22:49] always with regard to release status, robbiew dropped in and said that he thinks that we should not embark upon any risky work for start up time [22:49] robert_ancell, :) [22:50] so that means that the start up time effort is more or less complete, or will be over the next few days [22:50] (well for Lucid anyway) [22:50] Right. [22:50] So what will be cut loose in order to achieve Scott's 10 seconds? [22:50] :) [22:50] we still have 1 second to go, I say we pick that off in Lucid + 1, and keep boot under 10 seconds the way we keep the desktop fitting on a CD [22:51] TheMuso, I'm not sure how robbiew will handle it [22:51] rickspencer3: I agree, but as above, will Scott? :) [22:51] the good news is that we are close to the goal, and the measures aren't fake demos [22:51] but booting real functional desktops [22:51] and we KNOW 10 seconds is achievable [22:52] TheMuso, right, scott has been a key leader for us, we owe him a debt of gratitude for sure [22:52] if I could do anything that would get us that 1 second, I would consider it [22:52] hi robbiew! [22:53] TheMuso, any audio status to report? [22:54] rickspencer3: Nothing game changing, just bug fixes as upstream/we write/get them. [22:55] TheMuso, sweet [22:55] so no issues expect wrt audio in Lucid? [22:55] well, *serious* issues? [22:55] no [22:55] great! [22:55] TheMuso, are you keeping an eye on the sound indicator? [22:56] you can probably ask kenvandine if you need details [22:56] rickspencer3: A little, have played with it a bit. Still need to try out the updated indicator with keyboard support. [22:56] hmmm, not working for me yet [22:56] ah the slider responds to keys now! [22:57] soon indicators will response to Meta-Esc [22:57] not meta, what do you call that key that OS vendors sometimes put their logo on? [22:57] hehe [22:57] TheMuso, robert_ancell that's the meeting, any other business? [22:57] no [22:57] no [22:57] groovy [22:58] Do we know UDS lucid+1 dates y et? [22:58] TheMuso, I don't [22:58] sorry [22:58] np [22:58] robbiew is a good person to ask, though, he'll let us know as soon as he knows [22:59] right [23:06] robert_ancell, http://theravingrick.blogspot.com/2010/02/fast-user-switching-is-back-in-lucid.html [23:07] i'm so glad that feature is back again :) [23:07] rickspencer3, yay! [23:07] chrisccoulson, you have robert_ancell to partially thank [23:08] that feature cost me some hair :) [23:08] * chrisccoulson hugs robert_ancell [23:08] he extended GDM to offer an API to pre-select a designated user [23:08] excellent :) [23:09] robert_ancell, is that change upstream? [23:09] * rickspencer3 is editing posting [23:11] rickspencer3, yeah, along with all the other gdm patches. they just sit there [23:12] rickspencer3, submitted upstream not commited [23:12] wonder why? [23:12] that's odd [23:12] because upstream is too busy to review all the patches there [23:13] that sounds a bit familiar :/ [23:13] anyway, if anyone needs the feature, the patch is there [23:17] robert_ancell, I saw your suggestions for Featured apps [23:18] Saurbraten works rather well on my 'puter [23:18] ^3d fps [23:18] rickspencer3, we said no duplicate app, ie abiword [23:19] seb128, what does Saurbraten duplicate? [23:19] or epiphany, which I guess you list for epiphan-webkit? [23:19] seb128, yes [23:19] lol [23:19] rickspencer3, nothing that I know, I don't know what saurbraten is ;-) [23:19] I guess seb128 meant to direct that to robert_ancell [23:20] rickspencer3, indeed sorry ;-) [23:20] saurbraten is a first person shooter [23:20] robert_ancell, ^ [23:20] I basically play it a bit this time in the cycle to make sure that graphics are working well [23:20] same for gnumeric [23:20] (except for Jaunty ;) ) [23:20] rickspencer3, Great testing mechanism :) [23:20] seb128, yes, I added gnumeric, epiphany as abiword is on the current list [23:20] robert_ancell, current list is mvo picking some random things to not have an empty category [23:21] I agree, we probably should remove all three [23:21] hmm [23:21] it was before we decide on guidelines ;-) [23:21] but surely we can have multiple games in the list [23:21] rickspencer3, I should try that game, didn't play fps for ages [23:21] so long as they aren't in the same genre [23:21] I used to play duke nukem with friends [23:21] like how could we not do frozenbubble? [23:21] that was ages ago though ;-) [23:21] seb128, rickspencer3 page updated [23:21] and how could we not feature super tux? [23:22] frozen-bubble++ [23:22] rickspencer3, it never felt very complete to me [23:22] only issue is that it destroy productivity [23:22] ;-) [23:22] lol [23:22] robert_ancell, what didn't feel complete? super tux? [23:22] did you guys ever play starcon 2? [23:22] rickspencer3, yeah, supertux [23:22] robert_ancell, not yet, but now I see it in your list (will try starcon 2) [23:23] I didn't [23:23] oh, what is that 3d racing sim. Did that ever get finished enough? [23:23] there were two [23:23] starcon 2 is really fun (both multi-player and single player). It was awesome the original devs could take it open source [23:23] tux racer, and ... [23:23] and ... [23:23] man I can't remember, it looked cool, but there were only i386 binaries for it the last time I tried it [23:24] * rickspencer3 notes that robert_ancell has a encyclopedic knowledge of games [23:24] TORCs was the name [23:25] hmm, sounds different [23:25] rickspencer3, heh, been following the Linux game scene for a few years now :) [23:25] robert_ancell, I can see that being the debian maintainer has had some benefits ;) [23:25] rickspencer3, have you played nexuiz? How does is compare to saurbraten? [23:26] haven't tried it [23:26] freeciv, tremulous, Ur-Quan, Simutrans, Pioneers, PyScrabble [23:26] * rickspencer3 tries [23:30] The only game that has deacent music IMO is frozen bubble. [23:38] I'm hoping by making some "recommended" stuff these projects will get more contributers [23:45] rickspencer3: Indicator sound works for me via keyboard. The only problem is that I completely lose focus after working with it, and have to use the mouse to get back, as keyboard window/panel switchign doesn't work. This bug is not indicator applet specific. [23:47] hmmm [23:47] TheMuso, on phone, but will ping you back [23:47] TheMuso, known bug [23:48] they were working on it today [23:50] seb128: oh ok great.