[09:17] <wintellect> \o
[11:32]  * elky concludes that premade voting packages that can support large chunks of text all have a bad case of major suckiness.
[13:01] <akgraner> czajkowski, ping :-)
[13:01] <akgraner> elky, the cards were a huge success!!
[13:02] <akgraner> crap - time zones...  :-/
[13:02] <czajkowski> akgraner: pong
[13:02] <elky> akgraner, they got there?!
[13:03] <elky> sweeeeeeet!
[13:04] <elky> i was so worried they wouldn't get there in time
[13:04] <akgraner> elky, yep!  gave out like 200 of them.. I have about 50 left... Shared with the other UW folks that were there as well.. I'll send you some of the posters as soon as they arrive :-)
[13:04] <elky> wow 200 of them went? nice
[13:04] <akgraner> czajkowski, got a few mins to talk NGO related stuff??
[13:04] <czajkowski> akgraner: sure
[13:05] <akgraner> elky, yep - gave Michelle, Akk, and dinda some to pass out as well...
[13:05] <elky> so much easier to get someone to take a widdle card as opposed to a huge ream of text, eh :)
[13:06] <rww> akgraner: cards as in the ones we had at the SCaLE booth?
[13:06] <akgraner> rww, yep
[13:06] <rww> elky, akgraner: those were /awesome/
[13:06] <akgraner> elky, the CA LoCo team did a great job of helping spread the word as well.
[13:07] <akgraner> Issue 4 of Ubuntu User has a full page article on UW as well - it should hit news stands soon
[13:07] <rww> we had them on the table with the rest of the various Ubuntu handouts. Lots of people picked them up and asked questions :)
[13:08] <akgraner> rww, and I think most of those folks found their way of to the Linux Pro booth at some point during the day as well.. so great cross-promotion going on there
[13:08] <rww> akgraner: yep, we sent a few of them over to you :)
[13:09]  * czajkowski wants Ubuntu User! 
[13:10] <akgraner> popey,  has a great article he co-authored on UDS-L..in issue 4 as well...
[13:15] <akgraner> I ordered the UW posters in Bulk so I should have more than enough after next week... so if someone is going to an event and needs some just let me know (The posters are the ones elky designed on the resources page)
[13:16] <popey> :)
[13:18] <elky> akgraner, did my return address remain legible on the package?
[13:18] <akgraner> nope :-(
[13:19]  * elky will /msg
[13:19] <akgraner> elky, thanks :-)
[13:24]  * czajkowski needs to finish her talk for Saturday
[13:25] <czajkowski> lack of net in the evenings may help with productivity
[13:28] <akgraner> oh cool what is your talk on?
[13:28] <czajkowski> I think I'll do same as last one
[13:28] <czajkowski> just new content
[13:28] <czajkowski> need to come up with a new title for March talk though, differnt college and some of the same students
[13:28] <czajkowski> on the phone to TC and laughing at her
[13:29] <czajkowski> in her hungover state, she bought a massive fridge, got it loaded onto a truck got home, very hunogover from shopping and not able to get the massive fridge off on her own. At least that's what she thought for 3 hrs, then snow came so heavily she got it down, and sliced her figners, 5 stictches
[13:30] <akgraner> rut roh!
[13:30] <nigelb> huh?
[13:30] <czajkowski> akgraner: she went celebratig with her co-workers and she was only female. 18 blokes, and ended up in a strip club till wee hrs of morning doing shots. Then went and moved and bought stuff for new house.
[13:31] <czajkowski> don't know how she does it
[13:32] <akgraner> czajkowski, WOW!  when you find out houw she does it - let me know..  I could use energy like like ;-)
[13:34] <czajkowski> akgraner: no idea, she has 3 young kids and sports on a Saturday. Have you read her blog ?
[13:35] <akgraner> czajkowski, I do - but I usually pick a day and catch up on it..
[13:35] <czajkowski> http://tc55travels.blogspot.com/ so proud of her
[13:36] <czajkowski> 2 weeks time she's home, CANNOT_WAIT
[13:36] <akgraner> czajkowski, I can't remember - does she use ubuntu?
[13:37] <nigelb> czajkowski: whose blog is that? it seems utterly familiar....
[13:38] <nigelb> have you posted the link before? my browser seems to remember it (strange)
[13:38] <czajkowski> nigelb: my mate who just moved to Canada
[13:38] <czajkowski> akgraner: not yet :)
[13:38] <nigelb> czajkowski: ah, you've posted it before and yes its in my feed reader.
[13:39] <czajkowski> nigelb: single mum of 3 wee kids who uped and moved to Canada due to job losses here. Found job, house and schools for kids, and follows how she deals with crap every day :) but does everything for the monkies
[13:39] <nigelb> czajkowski: wow!
[13:40] <czajkowski> nigelb: one post is on her being a taxi
[13:45] <nigelb> czajkowski: its amazing! the way she writes and *what* she writes :)
[13:46] <czajkowski> nigelb: trying to explain to her that other than me and her mum,people read her blog
[13:46] <czajkowski> :)
[13:47] <nigelb> lol
[13:47] <nigelb> she doesn't have a counter?
[13:47] <akgraner> The slide decks from the WIOS talks at SCaLE are really cool - as soon as I get the links I will post them for everyone..
[13:48] <czajkowski> nigelb: don't think she checks, I leave a comment so she knows I've read it
[13:48] <czajkowski> and even then she boggles, it's rather fun
[13:48] <nigelb> akgraner: if you get the video or at least audio of michelle's talks, please please post it
[13:49] <akgraner> nigelb, her talk was awesone
[13:49] <nigelb> czajkowski: oh.  She should put in some counter.  I'm sure there are plenty you can just paste into blogger and she'll get full statistics
[13:49] <akgraner> awesome
[13:49] <nigelb> akgraner: i know.  I badly wanna see how she presented
[13:49] <czajkowski> nigelb: I may wait till she gets over to ireland before i tweek stuff
[13:50] <nigelb> czajkowski: :)
[13:50] <akgraner> when you see Gareth in either channels poke him  - he was one of the organizers of SCaLE - you may see him before I do :-)
[13:50] <nigelb> isn't he already there in the other channel?
[13:51] <akgraner> yep but he is on the west coast in California - it's only like 6:50am there
[13:51] <rww> 5:50am, actually
[13:51] <akgraner> so his computer may be online but he may not be
[13:51] <akgraner> rww, yep you are right
[13:51] <rww> so unless his sleep schedule is as messed up as mine...
[13:52] <nigelb> I'll leave a PM
[13:52] <nigelb> I'm sure he'll see it some time
[13:52] <akgraner> tww I know the feeling... and if I was Gareth or any of the SCaLE planners I would be off the computer for a week...
[14:59] <czajkowski> HEHE http://tiagovaz.wordpress.com/2010/02/23/creative-retaliation/
[15:06] <maco2> czajkowski: thats awesome
[15:06] <czajkowski> :)
[15:06] <czajkowski> figured some folks would get a kick out of it
[15:10] <maco2> rather tempted to send it to my dad
[15:11] <maco2> hes against that socialist healthcare-for-everyone stuff
[15:11] <maco2> im still confused about the part where "socialist" is supposed to be an insult. seems to work well for most of europe..
[15:13] <nigelb> czajkowski: lol, too bad canada lost though :(
[15:13] <maco2> nigelb: hence "retaliation"
[15:13] <nigelb> maco2: why exactly are people against the healthcare for all?
[15:13] <nigelb> I thought it was supposed to be good
[15:15] <maco2> because they think government doing stuff = socialist = communist = OH GOD STALIN'S GOING TO GET US!!!!
[15:16] <nigelb> maco2: so you'd rather trust people who want to get every penny from you?
[15:16] <maco2> my sister actually asked me why we cant just let uninsured people who go to the ER and can't pay out of pocket die, since if they wanted healthcare they shouldve worked harder
[15:16] <nigelb> 0_o
[15:17] <maco2> yeah, the "american dream" is like "anyone can get to the upper class if they work hard enough" ... thus, anyone who's poor is a lazy bum who doesnt deserve anything
[15:17] <maco2> somehow the fact that luck is a HUGE factor in moving between classes never occurs to them
[15:17] <nigelb> +1
[15:18] <JanC> don't doctors in the US have to take hyppocrates's oath anymore?  ;)
[15:19] <nigelb> maco2: I recently saw sicko, how true is it with regard to us healthcare?
[15:19] <maco2> nigelb: i have no idea. never saw it.
[15:19] <maco2> JanC: yes, which is why my sister loses ;)
[15:20] <maco2> a lot of americans are anti-welfare (ie the dole) because some people might abuse it.
[15:21] <JanC> they should also be against guns then  :P
[15:21] <nigelb> maco2: abuse it meaning they feel some people would get more healthcare and some people less?
[15:21] <maco2> like, "well jeez, why should ANYONE get a job if you can just sit around on your arse collecting welfare??  just pop out a few more babies and you get more money. no wonder you see all those welfare people with such big families!"
[15:21] <nigelb> thats fair isnt it? some people are more sick that others
[15:22] <maco2> it's very "every person for themself"
[15:22] <nigelb> the alpha behavior
[15:23] <JanC> maco2: I think the easy answer to that is "so if you really like that, why don't you go sit in a trailer park and pop out babies?"
[15:23] <maco2> my sister also asked why her tax money should go to helping other people.  nevermind that she doesnt earn enough to pay taxes to begin with.  my brother and i, who do, told her "because it's the right thing to do"
[15:24] <maco2> JanC: because then they couldnt look down their noses at people in trailer parks ;)
[15:24] <nigelb> maco2: because when you run into troubles the govt will pay you back?
[15:26] <JanC> maybe it's also because they can pay more to "private welfare" then  ;)
[15:27] <JanC> where you can list how much you donated to which welfare project  ;)
[15:27] <maco2> ive come to the conclusion just now that a large portion of americans are barbarians
[15:27] <maco2> JanC: what? charities?
[15:27] <JanC> yeah, charities and whatever else they can be named
[15:28] <nigelb> maco2: its just the way everything is approached
[15:28] <nigelb> most of the time, even from school, it is "the result is what counts"
[15:28] <czajkowski> maco2: it can be frustrating when a person works pays taxes and what not and folks don't and demand so much. I feel like saying go get a job any jobs, contribute and then I'll listen more.
[15:28] <nigelb> not the fun in reaching there or the journey there
[15:28] <czajkowski> I don't however :(
[15:30] <JanC> obviously, there is difference between asking a minimum and demanding (too) much
[15:31] <maco2> czajkowski: yeah, which is why i think welfare should involve some oversight like "have you applied for jobs?" since its supposed to be when youre between jobs, but i also think they could do more with like training so that the people *can* find jobs
[15:33] <czajkowski> it does here
[15:33] <czajkowski> you;'ve to prove you're looking
[15:33] <czajkowski> show rejection letters,
[15:33] <czajkowski> after 1 year you get reviewed, after that every 6 months.
[15:33] <JanC> lol, that sounds fun, as most companies don't even bother to send those?  :P
[15:34] <czajkowski> yup
[15:34] <czajkowski> you've to show you're at least trying to find a job
[15:34] <czajkowski> but we've over a 1/4 million on the dole
[15:34] <JanC> anyway, you have to show you're looking for a job in .be too
[15:35] <JanC> I guess they can check with the companies themselves to be sure...
[15:35] <czajkowski> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_benefits#Ireland
[15:36] <maco2> the "they have big families to get more money" thing bothers me though... because how do they know thats why the family is big?  maybe they're catholic!  catholics arent supposed to use contraception or get abortions.  you'd think my catholic family would know this...
[15:36] <nigelb> czajkowski: that sounds reasonable
[15:36] <czajkowski> nigelb: it's rather high imo
[15:37] <nigelb> czajkowski: It depends on what is the definition of minimum standards of living
[15:38] <JanC> OTOH, it's not high if you have to pay off on a mortgage, a car, etc.
[15:38] <nigelb> ah
[15:39] <czajkowski> chances are if you're on the dole, you're also getting rent allowance, and medical card, if you've children you're also getting childrens allowance.
[15:39] <JanC> but it you can certainly live on it otherwise
[15:39] <nigelb> people might think, "hey he has no job but he gets to have a car and house" though
[15:39] <czajkowski> it's  atouchy topic tbh
[15:39] <nigelb> yep
[15:40] <JanC> when companies lay off 1000s of people, all of them having to sell their house & car wouldn't be good for the economy either
[15:40] <JanC> but maybe most people rent in .ie ?
[15:41] <czajkowski> http://bit.ly/cWUGL8 changing the subject to a more on topic one
[15:41] <czajkowski> JanC: nope a lot own, in fact there are THOUSANDS of brand new homes ready to move in but nobody is buying due to current economy
[15:43] <JanC> which could lead to even more companies going belly up and even more people unemployed...
[15:44] <czajkowski> sure our construction industry is gone. In my home city over 5K people lost their jobs when Dell pulled out
[15:45] <JanC> and that's why _some_ tempering or dampening is good (in general European citizens feel crisises less than US citizens, but we also benifit less from heights in the economy)
[15:48] <JanC> of course deciding on the right level of "dampening" is not trivial  ;)
[15:56]  * Mamarok wonders what this has to do in this channel, there is a socail channel in #ubuntu-women
[15:57] <Mamarok> else I really don't see the point to have split it
[15:59] <maco2> czajkowski's not in the social channel
[16:04] <czajkowski> maco2: no the idea was that social chatter can happen here if folks want, it's just logged also.
[16:04] <czajkowski> bah
[16:04] <czajkowski> Mamarok:
[16:04] <czajkowski> lordie I'm having tab fail
[16:17] <Mamarok> czajkowski: That is not what I understood, sorry
[16:17] <Mamarok> and I absolutely don't see the need fro two channels for social chatter
[16:17] <Mamarok> it diultes everything, why not bury the project while we are at it?
[16:17] <czajkowski> it's project related, but social chatter will happen, that's life. If folks don't want their stuff loged, then that's fine.
[16:17] <Mamarok> this makes no sense at all
[16:18] <czajkowski> I also copied in a link re women in technology but nobody commented on that
[16:18] <czajkowski> Mamarok: sligtly OTT comment tbh re burrying the project
[16:18] <Mamarok> czajkowski: it was decided that this channel is about the Ubuntu-Women project, and that the old one was for social discussions, having those in both is simply pure nonesense
[16:18] <maco2> one of the reasons for having the social chatter separate though was so people wouldnt have to dig through logs of chatter to find the project-related bits of the log
[16:19] <czajkowski> maco2: Mamarok a comment on the mailing list even said as much re social chatter will happen in here, but again point out if folks have issue with conversations being logged re social stuff to point to the other channe;
[16:19]  * czajkowski shall go back to being silent now
[16:19] <czajkowski> better!
[16:20] <Mamarok> czajkowski: we were asked to vote for, and it was clear why this split was made, I really don't think it is apporpriate to turn this channel in a social chatter on, too
[16:20] <Mamarok> appropriate*
[16:25] <maco2> oooh cool permissions were carried over