[00:00] <bob2> as in branch a subtree of an existing branch?  you can try "split", but I don't think it's production-y yet
[00:05] <mathrick> okay, so the correct fix is to s/map.//
[00:05]  * mathrick hugs bzr blame
[00:07] <gregcoit> bob2: the option is to copy the dir to another place and init is as a new bzr branch, right?
[00:08] <bob2> yeah, but that loses history
[00:08] <bob2> you could also branch the whole thing, delete everything else and then move the files in this one dir to the root
[00:08] <gregcoit> bob2: oh, that works too - thanks!
[00:43] <mathrick> is there some trick to get bzr blame to find where a particular line has disappeared?
[00:46] <lifeless> use gannotate and click around versions
[00:46] <lifeless> is what most people seem to do
[00:51] <mathrick> aha
[00:55] <mathrick> http://bazaar.pastebin.com/GaJP7cRb
[00:55] <mathrick> any idea what's wrong?
[01:27] <dOxxx> yarr
[01:33] <poolie> mathrick: this looks like an already fixed bug, are you up to date?
[01:33] <mathrick> poolie: 2.1.0
[01:34] <poolie> and also in bzr-git?
[01:36] <mathrick> bzr git is r721
[01:37] <poolie> sorry
[01:37] <poolie> suggest you file or look for a bzr-git bug then
[01:37] <mathrick> ok
[01:47] <keithy> when I do bzr cat <remote url> it changes my remote directory setting how do I stop it?
[01:48] <lifeless> what do you mean?
[01:50] <keithy> I think I misunderstood the error
[01:51] <keithy> I got a "permanently redirected" report
[01:51] <keithy> << is tired
[01:51] <keithy> btw if you are interested in how I am using bzr for squeak/cuis http://smalltalkers.pbworks.com
[02:07] <poolie> thanks keithy
[02:08] <poolie> how are things working out?
[02:08] <keithy> in what respect?
[02:08] <poolie> just with bzr and lp
[02:08] <keithy> I am suffering form spiderman syndrome...."with great power comes great responsibility"
[02:09] <keithy> very well indeed
[02:09] <keithy> some quibbles with the squeak licence
[02:10] <keithy> I dont think people in the OSI community realise how much trouble they caused
[02:11] <poolie> i heard about some of that
[02:11] <keithy> it has taken something like 10 years to relicence squeak, all because of two paragraphs in the licence that arent relevant any more
[02:11] <keithy> for example
[02:11] <keithy> the licence says, you cant distribute apples fonts
[02:12] <keithy> but readers of the licence dont think to ask if there are any apple fonts in the product to distribute
[02:12] <keithy> the last remnant was removed 6 years ago
[02:13] <keithy> Apart from that
[02:13] <poolie> right
[02:13] <keithy> In a week or so
[02:13] <poolie> i see your point about the difficulty of updating things that predate OSI
[02:13] <keithy> exactly, it was very disingenious of them
[02:13] <keithy> especially when squeak was a pioneer of OS for commercial purposes
[02:14] <keithy> the SqueakL was actually designed to enable reuse for commercial purposes
[02:14] <bob2> who is 'them'?
[02:14] <keithy> unlinke Gnu etc
[02:14] <keithy> squeak was developed by a team in the Apple Technology Group
[02:14] <keithy> this team was originally at Zero parc
[02:14] <keithy> xerox
[02:14] <keithy> parc
[02:15] <poolie> ok
[02:15] <keithy> The system was released by xerox to the public by publishing the full spec in a book, the famous blue book
[02:15] <poolie> so, i hope we work something out
[02:15] <poolie> rebooting, biab
[02:15] <poolie> i know, i read it years ago
[02:15] <poolie> it's pretty cool that it's out there
[02:15] <keithy> its on the net now
[02:16] <poolie> rebooting, biab
[02:30] <poolie> i'm thinking about just removing the attempted fix for bug 456077 from 2.0 because of the fallout it caused
[02:34] <poolie> lifeless: ping, teddybear wanted on this
[02:34] <lifeless> poolie: voice?
[02:35] <poolie> irc will do
[02:35] <poolie> just about whether to revert the cross-format fetch warning in 2.0
[02:35] <lifeless> what was the fallout
[02:36] <poolie> warnings during upgrade
[02:36] <poolie> and the message is not always very clear, eg bug 513157
[02:36] <lifeless> right
[02:36] <lifeless> uhm, I think the upgrade one is easy enough; squelch the warning before starting upgrade.
[02:37] <lifeless> the clarity one, seems like polishon the format %s that spiv worked on in france
[02:37] <lifeless> so, I would attempt to finish it off rather than revert it, myself.
[02:37] <poolie> i guess the fallout is not so severe that it needs to be immediately pulled
[02:37] <poolie> yeah
[02:37] <poolie> ok
[02:37] <poolie> thanks
[02:45] <lifeless> poolie: no probs
[03:13] <lifeless> poolie: are you doing  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/515356 too?
[03:13] <poolie> yes
[03:13] <lifeless> cool; was wondering as its not assigne
[03:15] <poolie> i'm not doing it right now
[03:15] <poolie> i'm going to fix the underlying fetch thing first
[03:19] <poolie> is bug 388269 a dupe of bug 435048?
[03:20] <lifeless> I think so
[03:20] <lifeless> if not a dupe then remarkably similar
[04:40] <parthm> Hello, based on the discussion on bug 503670 'bzr grep', I have created a bzr-grep plugin explained here https://bugs.launchpad.net/bzr/+bug/503670/comments/11
[04:41] <parthm> I would appreciate any review comments this as I am still new to bzrlib API. Whats a good launchpad mechanism for this? Probably the comments can be left on the bug listing?
[04:42] <parthm> Another question, I am planning to work on the test cases, any pointers would be much appreciated.
[04:45] <poolie> parthm: there wasn't a bzr-grep already?
[04:45] <parthm> I could find anything. I saw bzr-search and ~vila/bzr/grep which was unix only.
[04:46] <poolie> ok
[04:46] <poolie> so i don't think there's any particular way to say please review this from scratch
[04:46] <poolie> other than making an empty trunk branch
[04:46] <poolie> then proposing a merge of all your code into that
[04:46] <poolie> which would work ok
[04:47] <parthm> Sounds ok. So for the purpose of review, I would just branch the trunk and put in the grep folder so the comments can be tracked.
[04:49] <parthm> What would be a good way to create tests? Basically, I need to create a working tree, add files and file content. then run "bzr grep" on it pattern matching on output.
[04:53] <Kilroo> ...I think I just figured out a set of process I can use to let my team treat our non-versioned ftp servers at work as if they are under version control with all the people who use raw ftp as a sort of "ghost committer."
[04:55] <Kilroo> I'm not sure though. Gotta think about that. It may require either more steps to follow when committing, or finding somewhere I can put a bzr smart server and getting rather creative with hooks.
[05:59] <GaryvdM> Hi vila
[06:02] <poolie> hi GaryvdM, vila
[06:03] <GaryvdM> Hi poolie
[06:08] <wgrant> Where is the bzr documentation?
[06:08] <wgrant> The "Get Help" link on the website doesn't seem to lead there.
[06:09] <GaryvdM> http://doc.bazaar.canonical.com/en/
[06:09] <wgrant> Thanks. How does a normal user get there?
[06:09] <poolie> which website?
[06:09] <wgrant> http://bazaar.canonical.com/
[06:10] <bob2> "Documentation" link at the top left
[06:10] <bob2> or at the bottom
[06:10] <wgrant> Ah, so to get help I don't actually use the "Get Help" link.
[06:10] <poolie> easily fixed
[06:10] <bob2> if you say so
[06:11] <poolie> with sudo_sarcasm
[06:13] <poolie> wgrant: howzat
[06:16] <wgrant> poolie: Looks good. Thanks!
[06:20]  * wgrant wonders if 90000 users is really a stat that wants to be widely advertised.
[06:39] <GaryvdM> wgrant: a often quoted figger for world wide developers is 9 mil. Based on that, bazaar is used by 1%
[06:39] <GaryvdM> Hmm, dose not sound to good.
[06:39] <poolie> it's very hard to estimate usage of open source
[06:40] <wgrant> So it's probably a bad idea to try.
[06:44] <poolie> is that on our homepage now, or elsewhere?
[06:44] <GaryvdM> vila: I wanted to talk to you about releasing bzr-gtk. I pop back later.
[06:46] <wgrant> poolie: It's on the homepage.
[06:47] <wgrant> Otherwise the website is pretty nice now.
[06:47] <wgrant> Particularly with the compelling linked logos at the bottom.
[06:48] <poolie> thanks
[06:49] <poolie> wgrant: how about the project count
[06:49] <poolie> and the link to the popcon page?
[06:49] <wgrant> Popcon needs to die, not be linked to from anywhere :/
[06:50] <poolie>     Bazaar is used by thousands of people around the world on both open
[06:50] <poolie>     and closed projects, including<br/>
[06:50] <wgrant> +1
[06:50] <poolie> gary?
[06:50] <poolie> maybe s/thousands of//
[06:50] <wgrant> I considered that. It's hard to say.
[06:51] <poolie>     Bazaar is used by thousands of projects, both open and closed,
[06:51] <poolie>     including<br/>
[06:51] <wgrant> That works.
[06:51] <wgrant> And is far more likely to be accurate.
[06:52] <wgrant> And cannot easily be interpreted as being a very low number.
[06:54] <poolie> k
[06:54] <poolie> cron will update it in a bit
[06:54] <wgrant> Thanks.
[06:54] <poolie> not at all, thanks for the review
[07:01] <vila> hi all
[07:18] <wgrant> poolie: Oh, I see that the number wasn't actually pulled out of nowhere.
[07:19] <wgrant> poolie: But popcon is completely the wrong order of magnitude to use.
[07:19] <poolie> cause it undercounts?
[07:19] <wgrant> BzrPopularity oddly states the numbers as facts.
[07:19] <wgrant> poolie: It's not enabled by default, and the option is well hidden.
[07:19] <wgrant> I don't know anybody who has it on.
[07:19] <poolie> well, it's a fact (i presume) that's what it reports
[07:19] <poolie> right
[07:19] <poolie> me :)
[07:19] <poolie> but feel free to update the wiki page
[07:20] <wgrant> Ah, it is a wiki page. I see.
[07:21] <wgrant> See, the most popular popcon package has only 1.4 million installations. We have quite a few more users than that.
[07:22] <poolie> sure, you're quite right
[11:28] <etenil> Hi all
[11:30] <etenil> I made the mistake to branch manually (copy-paste of directory). And I have commited some changes in both branches now. How can I make the branch aware that it diverged from the trunk?
[11:31] <bob2> copying branches is fine
[11:31] <etenil> yeah, but merging them will be a problem
[11:31] <bob2> why?
[11:31] <bob2> bzr merge /the/other/one
[11:31] <etenil> well, they don't know where they diverged no?
[11:31] <bob2> sure they do
[11:31] <etenil> ah
[11:32] <etenil> does bzr compare the history or something?
[11:32] <bob2> yes
[11:32] <etenil> oh I see
[11:32] <bob2> branch doesn't do anything inherently magic
[11:32] <etenil> there was no need to worry then
[11:32] <bob2> you can use 'cp -a' if you prefer
[11:32] <etenil> ok
[11:32] <etenil> I was afraid to have done something dumb :)
[11:32] <etenil> thank you for your help bob2
[11:32] <bob2> well, back them both up first if you're worried :)
[11:33] <etenil> ok
[11:33] <etenil> thanks a lot
[13:37] <bialix> jaьЖ рш
[13:38] <bialix> jam: hi
[13:38] <bialix> jam: about next windows installer: please use qbzr 0.18.1 for it, not 0.18.2
[14:11] <jam> bialix: why is that?
[14:14] <jam> ah, found your email
[14:14] <jam> bug #524483
[15:01] <bialix> офьЖ https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/526933
[15:01] <bialix> jam: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/526933
[15:01] <bialix> sorry
[16:12] <aquarius> yo, bzr people. Imagine, hypothetically, that I'd got a branch merged into the trunk of my project and everyone hated me for it, so I now want to submit a new branch which removes the changes that the previous one made. What's the easiest way to create this new branch?
[16:13] <aquarius> do I just branch trunk, do bzr diff -r -5..-6 > patchfile (or whatever revision my branch landed in), then patch -p0 < patchfile and bzr commit?
[16:13] <aquarius> that seems a bit long-winded
[16:14] <james_w> aquarius: branch trunk
[16:14] <james_w> bzr merge -r -6..-5 .
[16:15] <james_w> bzr commit
[16:15] <james_w> bzr push lp:...
[16:15] <aquarius> haha! you can merge from yourself?
[16:15] <james_w> propose merge
[16:15] <aquarius> smart. I didn't know you could do that :)
[16:15] <james_w> yep
[16:15] <aquarius> I knew you'd know a better way than making a patch file. Cheers, pal :P
[16:15] <james_w> and doing the revision range backwards applies the reverse diff
[16:21] <IslandUsurper> wait. -5..-6 *is* the backwards diff
[16:23] <james_w> aquarius: err yeah, what IslandUsurper said :-)
[16:23] <aquarius> james_w, I knew what you meant. negative numbers. It's the opposite of the opposite of what you think :)
[16:23] <aquarius> vds, ^ :-)
[16:23] <vds> aquarius: yup
[16:38] <CaMason> how can I show which files were edited at a specific revision
[16:39] <Peng> CaMason: bzr st -c 123
[16:39] <Peng> CaMason: Probably
[16:40] <rubbs> CaMason: try bzr annotate filename
[16:40] <rubbs> er...
[16:40] <rubbs> yeah I miss understood your question
[16:40] <rubbs> peng's answer might be better.
[16:40] <Peng> My answer is the best! :D Probably.
[16:40] <rubbs> heh
[16:42] <CaMason> thx :)
[17:46] <stefanlsd> Hi, is it possible to remove a tag?
[17:47] <stefanlsd> oh ok. tag --delete works. i was using -d and it wasnt
[18:12] <mathrick> stefanlsd: -d means --directory
[19:27] <bialix> channel trolls? really>
[19:27]  * bialix summons garyvdm
[19:28] <Peng> Eh? Trolls? Where?
[19:29] <bialix> banner said: [freenode-info] channel trolls and no channel staff around to help?
[19:30] <bialix> only channel staff has weapon?
[19:30] <bialix> evening Peng, btw
[19:31] <Peng> Hi. :)
[19:37] <bialix> anybody seen new Joel Spolsky's project? http://hginit.com/index.html   Looks like very nice tutorial
[19:38] <Peng> Hehe, "Mercurial tutorial" rhymes.
[19:41] <bialix> I wonder why people started bashing svn
[19:42] <Peng> Because it's terrible, like Boxbot.
[19:43] <fullermd> It's ugly, and its mother dresses it funny.
[19:47] <bialix> Peng, Boxbot is http://gunnerkrigg.wikia.com/wiki/Boxbot ?
[19:47] <Peng> bialix: Yes.
[19:47] <bialix> nobody likes boxbot
[19:48] <bialix> but Martin Fowler does rate svn highly
[19:48] <bialix> and he don't like a Feature Branches
[19:48] <bialix> is not it's funny?
[19:50] <gregcoit> i'd like to make a co a branch from launchpad, then branch that co, make changes to the new branch, and push the changes to a new branch on launchpad (without effecting the original branch on launchpad).  Is that sane/o-able?
[19:50] <gregcoit> er, do-able
[19:51] <bialix> gregcoit: almost
[19:52] <gregcoit> well, almost if close.  :)  what am I missing?
[19:52] <fullermd> Sure, though within the confines of that the co isn't doing anything.
[19:54] <bialix> gregcoit: it's a bit hard to read your slang
[19:54] <gregcoit> bialix: yeah, i'm new to bzr terminology
[19:55] <bialix> gregcoit: you can omit the step of co
[19:55] <gregcoit> bialix: what I'm trying to do is take a part of a branch and make it into a new branch with history preserved while keeping the original branch unaffected
[19:55] <bialix> co wo nt he lp yo
[19:56] <gregcoit> kk - I can see that
[19:56] <fullermd> Hey!  No Swahili in #bzr!
[19:57] <bialix> I hear you the white master
[19:57] <fullermd> When you run 'branch', you're creating a new independent branch.  Things done to it don't affect the original, unless you do things like 'push' that are designed to doing things inter-branch.
[19:57] <bialix> gregcoit: to extract part of the tree and preserve history.. it's not very easy
[19:58] <gregcoit> bialix: well, copy might be a betterterm than extract - I don't want to affect the orginal branch contents
[19:59] <bialix> every branch is separate copy
[20:00] <gregcoit> bialix: ahh, ok, perfect
[20:00] <gregcoit> bialix: thanks for talking me through this
[20:01] <bialix> may I advice you to read tutorial?
[20:01] <bialix> I'm not really sure I understand your intent
[20:06] <gregcoit> not a bad idea....
[20:15] <bialix> hmmm, Kiln is really attempting to be launchpad competitor
[21:13] <maxb> Except Launchpad doesn't even attempt to enter the "here it is, you can run it on your own server if you like" market
[21:20] <lifeless> moin
[21:35] <poolie> hi jam?
[21:35] <jam> morning poolie
[21:35] <poolie> how are things?
[21:36] <jam> going pretty well
[22:57] <poolie> hi all
[23:04] <ctrlsoft> 'morning poolie
[23:10] <spiv> Morning.
[23:15] <lifeless> vila: ping
[23:23] <poolie> hi ctrlsoft
[23:28] <ctrlsoft> poolie: fwiw I managed to get colocated branches in a git repo partially working, I can now list and access them using the patch I proposed to bzr.dev and an additional small change to bzr.dev
[23:29] <RAOF> ctrlsoft: YOU ARE MY HERO
[23:30] <ctrlsoft> RAOF: :-) Please note the "in a git repo", this doesn't work in a native Bazaar branch yet and it's still a prototype at this point.
[23:31] <RAOF> The *only* reason I want colocated branches is so that I can switch to bzr as my full-time git client.
[23:31] <RAOF> Which means being able to pull & push non-master branches.
[23:31]  * RAOF imagines a world where reading “git help add” doesn't happen quite so often
[23:41] <poolie> that's great
[23:44] <lifeless> jelmer: nice
[23:45] <lifeless> Peng: was Peng taken on twitteR?
[23:47] <RickCogley> hi - I'm a newbie at version control and at bazaar, and have bzr set up from the latest package on an os x server. Can I ask: when I set up a central repository, what are people doing? Setting up a single repository (e.g. organization name "acme") and putting projects under that, or, are people setting up multiple repositories... ?
[23:48] <lifeless> RickCogley: repositories are just for storage optimisation: when making a new branch in a repository from another branch in the same repository no data needs to be copied around
[23:48] <lifeless> RickCogley: this has several implications: many repositories are the norm - every user usually has a repository on their machine
[23:48] <lifeless> secondly, you don't need to worry about them until you are up and running, they are an optional facility.
[23:49] <lifeless> lastly, whether you make one for all your projects, or one per project, is totally up to you.
[23:49] <maxb> Although for performance and disk-space reasons they rapidly become less optional if your project is large
[23:50] <RickCogley> Thanks lifeless and maxb. We are thinking we'd like to have a single central repository so that we can back it up, but I can see that perhaps if you were doing dev for clients, you might want multiple ones to make sure things are kept separate.
[23:50] <lifeless> maxb: yes, but that users having to get it 'right' at the start leads to analysis paralysis
[23:51] <RickCogley> lifeless, ok, so it's kind of "ready, fire, aim" ?
[23:51] <lifeless> RickCogley: the use or not of repositories won't affect backups (except for the size of data: as a new user that is unlikely to worry you for a while)
[23:51] <lifeless> RickCogley: yup. My advice: *completely ignore* repositories for at least a week
[23:51] <lifeless> get used to branching, pushing, pulling, merging
[23:52] <maxb> I'd agree with that for a user. I think a server admin setting up a central server might want to have a think about them up front
[23:52] <lifeless> maxb: ONLY if the admin is already fluent with bzr.
 The *only* reason I want colocated branches is so that I can switch to bzr as my full-time git client. <-- oooooh
[23:52] <lifeless> maxb: otherwise they don't have the context to make the right decisions.
[23:53] <RickCogley> I guess the idea is to just get used to it and you can merge things into a repository later... ?
[23:53] <lifeless> maxb: and as repositories are just storage optimisation, its easy to add them in later, or remove them.
[23:53] <mathrick> and yes, git help whatever takes up way too big a chunk of my time spent interacting with git
[23:53] <RickCogley> lifeless, ok, I see.
[23:54] <lifeless> RickCogley: 'repository' is just a database. If you don't make one, bzr makes one when you run any of 'init' 'branch' 'checkout' 'push'
[23:54] <lifeless> RickCogley: let bzr do that while you learn the user facing concepts and concerns.
[23:54] <lifeless> RickCogley: /none/ of the every day bzr commands manipulate repositories. They all work with 'branches' and 'trees'.
[23:56] <RickCogley> lifeless, so in other words, you make a branch anyway when you check it out of a repository (not yet sure how to do that but...) and then the commands just work on your local copy. ?
[23:56] <lifeless> you can't check out of a repository; its just a database
[23:56] <lifeless> you check out of a branch
[23:56] <lifeless> delete the work repository from your vocab; its not needed.
[23:56] <lifeless> s/work/word/
[23:56] <bialix> mathrick: but do you will miss index?
[23:56] <mathrick> not at all
[23:57] <mathrick> index just gets in my way
[23:57] <mathrick> I use git when I have to, not by choice
[23:57] <RAOF> bialix: For me, the index is an incovenient version of “bzr shelve”
[23:57] <bialix> it seems there are 2 kinds of people: who loves index and who's not
[23:57] <RickCogley> *check out of a branch* *check out of a branch* *check out of a branch* :-)
[23:57] <lifeless> RickCogley: yup :)
[23:57] <bialix> RAOF: is not it's reverse thing?
[23:58] <RAOF> bialix: Which is one of the reasons it's inconvenient :).  Mostly I want to commit my changes.
[23:58] <RAOF> That's the default case.
[23:58] <mathrick> bialix: index is used so rarely it doesn't make sense to make it the central element of everything
[23:58] <bialix> ok ok
[23:58] <RAOF> If I want to take some of my changes out, I'll *explicitly* do so, using a (more powerful) explicit command.
[23:59] <bialix> just too many people around me buzzing how's cool index
[23:59] <mathrick> actually I use the interactive plugin to do most of my change management
[23:59] <mathrick> so I just go bzr ci and pick logical sets of changes until I have zero left
[23:59] <lifeless> poolie: pig
[23:59] <lifeless> sorry!
[23:59] <lifeless> poolie: ping
[23:59] <RickCogley> lifeless, may I ask: what is the strategy if you want to let visitors to a site download the latest version of a script, like a perl or shell script?
[23:59] <bialix> lifeless: !