[00:02] <chrisccoulson> DanEngholm, cool!
[00:04] <DanEngholm> I've been trying to figure this out for hours and hours.  Only when told Robert about Subversion did I think, "Gee, I should have just removed all of the .svn directories.  Maybe that would have fixed it."  But it's nice to know exactly what was going on.
[00:04] <DanEngholm> I'm adding a new comment to the bug.  Thanks again, Chris and Robert.
[00:19] <huats> didrocks, Bug #522656
[00:19] <huats> Once you have time...
[00:20] <huats> robert_ancell, hey
[00:20] <huats> How are you ?
[00:27] <huats> What is the current workflow for a sponsoring ? do I need to subscribe a team on the bug even if a branch is attached ? If yes, I have to admit that I don't know which team to subscribe...
[00:28] <huats> chrisccoulson, any idea ?
[00:29] <chrisccoulson> huats - yeah, you should still subscribe sponsors for now
[00:29] <chrisccoulson> i think we're still using ubuntu-main-sponsors and ubuntu-universe-sponsors at the moment
[00:29] <huats> chrisccoulson, ok I wasn't sure
[00:29] <huats> thanks then !
[00:30] <robert_ancell> huats, hey
[00:30] <huats> robert_ancell, chrisccoulson was faster :)
[00:30] <chrisccoulson> huats - you might want to take a look at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-February/030194.html
[00:30] <huats> Oh this is a mail that I need to read :)
[00:31] <huats> (it is marked as such in my mailbox)
[00:31] <huats> thanks chrisccoulson
[00:31] <huats> I need to go to bed before my baby needs to be changed so that I can get some sleep :)
[00:31] <huats> sorry to rush you guys :)
[08:01] <didrocks> good morning
[08:03] <thekorn> good morning didrocks
[08:03] <didrocks> hey thekorn
[08:04] <nigelb> hey, I've requested a merge for rhythmbox in bzr (added apport hook), can one of you guys remind seb when he comes on or look into it yourself
[08:04] <didrocks> nigelb: ping him tomorrow, today it's frozen due to alpha3
[08:05] <nigelb> didrocks: ah, will do. thanks :)
[08:09] <thekorn> nigelb, have you tested this hook?
[08:09] <nigelb> yes
[08:10] <nigelb> thekorn: feel free to test it though.  I've run as much thorough tests as I can.  Plus hggdh has also tested it.
[08:10] <didrocks> guten tag pitti
[08:10] <pitti> Bonjour mes amis
[08:10] <thekorn> nigelb, for me it looks like it will fail with a NameError if the user choose the first option
[08:11] <pitti> bryceh: nouveau-kernel-source> sounds redundant indeed, and it'll be obsolete soon
[08:11] <thekorn> nigelb, because attach_gconf is not defined
[08:12] <nigelb> thekorn: attach_gconf is a function in apport.hookutils
[08:12] <didrocks> pitti: you seem to have squeezed this:
[08:12] <didrocks> 18:33:08      didrocks | pitti: do I had the bg wallpaper extra work as a WI somewhere? (the one with "ubiquity doesn't use gnome-destkop in install mode, so no cache and we are screwed" and the second "netbook-launcher doesn't use gnome-desktop to draw the bg")
[08:12] <didrocks> 18:33:27      didrocks | not sure about 1/ apart again from the hakish way
[08:13] <pitti> didrocks: "squeezed"? I added it to the BP yesterday, to not forget
[08:13] <pitti> didrocks: I didn't follow the entire discussion; so there's no way to create the cache in ubiquity-only mode?
[08:13] <thekorn> nigelb, exactly. this is why you need to either change this line to apport.hookutils.attach_gconf(....) or do a   from apport.hookutils import *
[08:13] <thekorn> somewhere
[08:13] <pitti> bryceh: no reverse dependencies, so I can remove it easily; just say the word
[08:13] <didrocks> pitti: oh ok, as you didn't anwser yesterday and then, you said "good bye", I thought, the hl was  lost :)
[08:14] <nigelb> thekorn: there is an "import apport.hookutils" line
[08:14]  * pitti -> back in 15, breakfast
[08:14] <nigelb> thekorn: (thats how other hooks were formatted too!)
[08:15] <thekorn> nigelb, no, I don't believe you ;) show me an example :)
[08:15] <nigelb> thekorn: gimme a momment
[08:15] <didrocks> pitti: there are two things: We can change ubiquity to call libgnome-desktop (if we have some python binding for that) and there is n-l as well to change
[08:15] <nigelb> thekorn: running lucid?
[08:15] <thekorn> nigelb, sure
[08:16] <nigelb> thekorn: go to /usr/share/apport/package-hooks
[08:16] <nigelb> thekorn: and see the file source_totem.py
[08:19] <thekorn> nigelb, that's a bad example, no attach_gconf in it, please have a look at source_gnome-panel.py or source_gnome-power-manager.py for two possible ways doing import in python
[08:20] <nigelb> thekorn: but wait a minute, how did it work?
[08:21] <thekorn> nigelb, don't know, how did you test it?
[08:22] <nigelb> I copied the file to the /usr/share/apport/package-hooks directory and called ubuntu-bug rhythmbox
[08:25] <nigelb> thekorn: so now I have to do the whole thing against with an import * ?
[08:25] <thekorn> nigelb, the easiest way is to use apport.hookutils.attach_gconf(....)
[08:26] <nigelb> thekorn: will there be changes today? (can I do it 2morrow)?
[08:26] <thekorn> don't kow
[08:30] <pitti> didrocks: why n-l?
[08:30] <pitti> didrocks: so we can't just create it in the ubiquity-casper hook then?
[08:30] <didrocks> pitti: the hooks are run as root
[08:31] <pitti> right
[08:31] <didrocks> so, we have to use the same trick that I proposed in postinst I'm afraid (to get X, etc.)
[08:31] <pitti> didrocks: but we are in a much more controlled environment than during dist-upgrade on a random user configuration
[08:31] <didrocks> ok, can have a try within a hook so
[08:32] <pitti> didrocks: but if it's too fiddly, please ignore it
[08:32] <pitti> didrocks: I added the WI as a reminder to see how much effort it is
[08:32] <pitti> didrocks: initially it seemed to be trivial, like adding a new search path (/root/.cache)
[08:32] <didrocks> pitti: I have all the pieces now, it's just a question of putting them together
[08:32] <pitti> but if it's lots of work, nevermind
[08:32] <didrocks> pitti: so, there is the second point
[08:33] <didrocks> pitti: which is netbook-launcher
[08:33] <didrocks> netbook-launcher doesn't use gnome-desktop to show the bg
[08:33] <didrocks> and so, there is a race at start between g-s-d and n-l to show the bg
[08:33] <didrocks> sometimes g-s-d wins and we have a cache
[08:33] <didrocks> sometimes not, and n-l shows it
[08:33] <didrocks> (and so, no cache)
[08:34] <didrocks> in any case, n-l ignore g-s-d and draw the cache
[08:34] <didrocks> s/cache/bg/
[08:36] <baptistemm> hello
[08:36] <didrocks> salut baptistemm
[08:36] <pitti> didrocks: ah, that explains it
[08:36] <pitti> didrocks: can't we just stop n-l from drawing the background? no need to have it done by two components?
[08:37] <didrocks> pitti: yes, "the random cache file isn't there" from keybuck
[08:37] <didrocks> pitti: I can give it a try, but as it's in a clutter pixbuf, not sure we won't just have a white bg
[08:37] <didrocks> at least, I can try :)
[08:37] <didrocks> I guess n-l-efl needs some investigation too
[08:38]  * didrocks prays for the day he will be able to have one full day without "cache" nor "background" word :)
[08:38] <pitti> didrocks: oh, you mean in the case where it works, both g-s-d and n-l write the background; and otherwise it's just n-l?
[08:39] <pitti> didrocks: don't pray, just have it :) and ignore this topic entirely
[08:39]  * pitti STFU
[08:39] <didrocks> pitti: right, I think g-s-d should have some detection for "something is already drawn"
[08:39] <didrocks> pitti: heh
[08:39] <pitti> didrocks: I'm not sure whether it can find that out, especially if n-l isn't even using g-desktop
[08:40] <didrocks> pitti: there is some function in gnome-desktop to get if something is drawn on a monitor. I thing g-s-d calls that (I'll have a look at nautilus g-s-d interaction for that)
[08:41] <didrocks> well, let's remove bg drawing first
[08:41] <didrocks> that's the easiest part
[08:43] <seb128> hey didrocks pitti
[08:43] <didrocks> salut seb128, couché pas trop tard hier, pas de hockey? ;)
[08:43] <seb128> 1:30am
[08:43] <seb128> just watched to 0:30 game
[08:45] <seb128> didrocks, nautilus interaction, g-s-d just read the nautilus gconf ke
[08:45] <seb128> key
[08:45] <didrocks> seb128: oh thanks. I was thinking something more clever than that :)
[08:45] <seb128> I don't think there is a smart way to know if what is on screen is the background you want
[08:46] <didrocks> seb128: no, the issue is apprentely, if n-l draws the bg before g-s-d, g-s-d doesn't try even to draw it (there is no cache file which appears). I'm wondering how it can prevent g-s-d from drawing it
[08:47] <seb128> are you sure it does?
[08:47] <^arky^> seb128: hi, you haven't replied to this bug comment  bug 510775
[08:48] <didrocks> seb128: well, on netbook, sometimes, we don't have any cache wallpaper at all (and I don't see any call to libgnome-desktop in the show bg part), and njpatel assured that n-l draws the bg
[08:48] <seb128> ^arky^, yeah, I don't look for number for other people or I would spend my week looking for dup numbers and not fix any bug in ubuntu
[08:48] <didrocks> so, something should prevent g-s-d to do it, but randomly (as at other boots, the bg is there)
[08:48] <seb128> didrocks, right, I've followed discussion I just say there is no reason why g-s-d doesn't display the bg too
[08:49] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:50] <didrocks> seb128: that's my only assumption for now why the "show bg" code isn't called sometime. Well, in any case, I should first fix n-l for the background part
[08:50] <pitti> didrocks: so, if n-l does not _need_ to draw the bg (it might need to because it does fading, blending, or what not), then let's disable it
[08:51] <seb128> hey pitti
[08:51] <didrocks> that can be a first approach, right (I'm looking at the code now)
[08:51] <seb128> pitti, did you real scrollback about gmenucache yesterday?
[08:51] <pitti> didrocks: if it does need to draw the bg, then let's patch g-s-d to not draw it at all for n-l (since then we don't need the cache either)
[08:51] <pitti> seb128: yes, I saw it
[08:51] <seb128> didrocks, I would start by putting g-s-d printfs
[08:51] <pitti> seb128: I agree, it should build a cache for all locales
[08:51] <seb128> didrocks, in the draw background code to make sure ti's not called
[08:52] <pitti> seb128: I still don't understand the .UTF-8 vs. .utf8 madness :/
[08:52] <seb128> pitti, locale -a lists .utf8
[08:52] <seb128> loging out of gdm does UTF-8
[08:52] <pitti> right, it has always done so
[08:52] <didrocks> seb128: I've put them in libgnome, part, but right, I can add them to g-s-d as well
[08:52] <pitti> but until before lucid that that was an invalid format
[08:52] <seb128> and .dmrc has .utf8
[08:52] <seb128> pitti, could be a locale bug...
[08:52] <pitti> seb128: I think it's a transition
[08:52] <pitti> seb128: but anyway, I know what I'll do
[08:53] <seb128> pitti, want to assign the bug to you?
[08:53] <pitti> seb128: in the caching code and cache generator I'll just s/UTF-8/utf8/, and always use the normalized form
[08:53] <pitti> seb128: oh, please do
[08:53] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[08:53] <seb128> pitti, bug #517616
[08:53] <seb128> pitti, doing
[08:54] <^arky^> seb128: yeah, I understand.  This missing 'shutdown menu' is a a11y problem. How can we fix it ?
[08:55] <seb128> ^arky^, you will be able to open it using the keyboard ted is working on those changes
[08:56] <seb128> ^arky^, ie it will have a super+<some_key> shortcut
[08:56] <seb128> ^arky^, is that good enough?
[08:56] <seb128> super being the microsoft flag key
[08:57] <^arky^> seb128: Not really, a lot of blind linux users would look for the shutdown menu option under the system menu it shouldn't be changed
[08:57] <seb128> ^arky^, the menu items have not been there for over a year
[08:57] <seb128> ^arky^, why can't those users be told that we have a session menu now?
[08:58] <pitti> seb128: do you happen to have the link handy for that page which used access("here I am") and that script to produce a chart?
[08:58] <pitti> for gnome startup speed profiling?
[08:58] <^arky^> seb128: yes, in a11y install mode, the fuse is removed by casper. Also it takes lot of keyboard tabs to reach the session menu
[09:00] <seb128> pitti, http://people.gnome.org/~federico/news-2006-03.html#login-time-1
[09:00] <pitti> seb128: merci
[09:00] <seb128> pitti, de rien
[09:00] <seb128> pitti, you probably what the post after this one on the webpage
[09:01] <seb128> ^arky^, I just told you the session menu will have a shortcut
[09:01] <seb128> ^arky^, so it should be no tab, just one shortcut
[09:04] <seb128> pitti, would it make sense to upload the gpm fix now?
[09:04] <seb128> pitti, it's weird to have that menu empty
[09:04] <seb128> pitti, and the fix is obvious
[09:04] <pitti> ok, might just as well do
[09:05] <seb128> thanks
[09:05] <pitti> doing
[09:05] <seb128> pitti, bug #407300 I'm not sure how much it's an issue
[09:05] <seb128> nobody replied to my previous comment
[09:07] <^arky^> seb128: Providing a shortcut key is good, but I still would beg you to bring back the shutdown menus back http://vinci.wordpress.com/2009/03/29/removed-shutdown-in-ubuntu-jauntys-system-menu/
[09:07] <seb128> ^arky^, why?
[09:08] <pitti> seb128: it seems easy to fix
[09:08] <pitti> I just grabbed it out of my daily mail, I'll investigate it later on
[09:08] <^arky^> seb128: Because the blind users have been using that for years now, there is dirty casper hack that reverts this back in accessible mode
[09:09] <seb128> ^arky^, blind users are not stupid why couldn't they adapt to change?
[09:09] <seb128> we can't never change any ui because blind users know where things used to be
[09:11] <^arky^> seb128: darn! that's a shame
[09:11] <seb128> ...
[09:13] <tseliot> seb128: speaking of UIs, did they decide on the position of tabs in gnome?
[09:13] <^arky^> seb128: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/casper/lucid/annotate/head%3A/scripts/casper-bottom/30accessibility#L37
[09:14] <seb128> brb
[09:16] <seb128> re
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[09:17] <seb128> tseliot, no, I don't think there is any discussion
[09:17] <seb128> hello chrisccoulson
[09:17] <seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti said he will fix the gnome-menus issue by normalizing the utf8 naming
[09:17] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks. i was just about to ask if you mentioned it to him yet
[09:17] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti, how are you?
[09:18] <seb128> ^arky^, I understand than current situation is an issue, you fail to convince me of the issue once we will have keyboard accessibility there
[09:18] <pitti> yes, I read the scrollback
[09:18] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I'm great, thanks! looking forward to the weekend
[09:18] <pitti> I have a swap day tomorrow
[09:18] <tseliot> seb128: ok, thanks
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, me too ;)
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> (looking forward to the weekend)
[09:18] <seb128> ^arky^, the session menu is just one menu as easy to open than the system one
[09:18] <seb128> chrisccoulson, pitti: slackers :p
[09:18] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:18]  * seb128 looks forward alpha3 unfreeze
[09:18] <pitti> and we will go to Paderborn, for some sightseeing, wellness hotel, and an exhibition of Claude Shannon's devices that he built over the years and decades
[09:19] <pitti> seb128: I'll need someone to be in the release team meeting tomorrow ..
[09:19] <seb128> pitti, oh nice, enjoy ;-)
[09:19] <^arky^> seb128: ok I understand, let me know where to track the development of session menu with ted ?
[09:19] <seb128> pitti, oh right you are taking a vac day?
[09:19] <pitti> I'll prepare the report, but would be nice to have someone to ansswer questions
[09:19] <pitti> seb128: right
[09:19] <seb128> pitti, I can cover for you
[09:19]  * pitti hugs seb128
[09:19]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[09:19] <pitti> seb128: or do you want to update this week's report yourself, as a means of exercise?
[09:19] <seb128> ^arky^, there or #ayatana?
[09:20] <seb128> pitti, I've a busy plate for today so I'm happy to pass if you have time to do it
[09:20] <^arky^> seb128: thanks for hearing me out !
[09:20] <seb128> pitti, but I should do some before end of cycle ;-)
[09:20] <pitti> seb128: fine
[09:21] <^arky^> seb128: my interest is a11y and screen reader users
[09:21] <seb128> ^arky^, np
[09:21] <^arky^> :)
[09:21] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[09:21] <seb128> ^arky^, right, your input is welcome and I agree current session menu can't be open easily from keyboard which sucks
[09:21] <seb128> ^arky^, that will be fixed in lucid though
[09:21] <seb128> so I think things should work just fine there
[09:22] <seb128> pitti, wait, when do the update needs to be done?
[09:22] <^arky^> seb128: looking forward for that :)
[09:22] <pitti> seb128: meeting is tomorrow 17:00 CET
[09:23] <seb128> pitti, I want to get other things done this morning but I can do in the end of afternoon
[09:23] <seb128> pitti, not sure how much I still need you around when I do it though
[09:23] <pitti> seb128: oh, you don't have to -- if you are busy, then please finish your tasks
[09:23] <pitti> seb128: I think for the first time we really want to do it together
[09:23] <pitti> so that I can explain the things I'm checking, what I prod people about, etc.
[09:24] <pitti> and what to point out in the release meeting
[09:24] <seb128> pitti, ok, so maybe wait start of afternoon and see how I get things done this morning
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: if not, that's fine; we'll have plenty of opportunities to practice still :)
[09:24]  * pitti hugs seb128
[09:24] <seb128> right
[09:24]  * seb128 hugs pitti ;-)
[09:24] <seb128> screw you rsync
[09:24] <pitti> seb128: but yes, I'll do it in the afternoon anyway, I don't want to spend my fresh and quiet morning hours on report writing :)
[09:24] <seb128> luckily I did backup the iso this time
[09:25] <pitti> morning -> hack time
[09:25] <seb128> same here ;-)
[09:25] <pitti> afternoon, with IRC being busy -> email, reporting, bug triage
[09:25] <seb128> hum, bug #527607
[09:25] <seb128> I'm pondering closing it as NOTABUG
[09:25] <seb128> what an idea to remap the sleep key :p
[09:26] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ^ would it be a g-s-d or g-p-m bug?
[09:26] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - it's probably g-c-c if the keybinding description is still shipped there. the actual functionality has been removed from g-s-d
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> so we should remove it from the capplet too
[09:27] <chrisccoulson> i'll just check
[09:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, now that you mention it I think it has been fixed in lucid
[09:28] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - the keybinding description needs removing from capplets/keybindings/01-desktop-key.xml.in if it is still there in lucid
[09:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, it's the other way around
[09:28] <seb128> chrisccoulson, that key assign "sleep_key" to $random_action
[09:29] <seb128> like pick "run calculator" and press the key
[09:29] <seb128> that *guy* assign
[09:29] <seb128> chrisccoulson, then he presses the key and it suspend the box
[09:29] <seb128> instead of running the calculator
[09:29] <seb128> or maybe it does both :-p
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> so, he's actually assigning the sleep key to run something else?
[09:30] <seb128> yes
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> that's strange
[09:30] <seb128> well that's how I understand the bug
[09:30] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i think you're right
[09:31] <chrisccoulson> we need a "don't be so silly" reply button ;)
[09:31] <seb128> I guess he doesn't suspend from keyboard and decided it would be nicer to use the key for something he does
[09:31] <seb128> yeah, what I was think too ;-)
[09:32] <seb128> I just added a comment saying basically "too much of a special case to justify spending work on it"
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> yeah, sounds good
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> and i'm not sure it would be possible to detect that another application has already got a grab on a particular key anyway, to prevent a user from re-assigning it
[09:33] <chrisccoulson> or maybe there is
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> but it's too much work anyway ;)
[09:34] <seb128> right
[09:35] <seb128> better to spend time on a real issue
[09:47] <dpm> hey seb128, good morning. We talked some time ago about the desktop entries with X-GNOME-FullName not appearing translated. You told me there might be a bug filed already, but so far I haven't been able to find it. I'd like to track it, and I'm thinking on filing one on glib2.0, what do you think?
[09:47] <seb128> dpm, hi, I fixed that in glib during the distro sprint
[09:47] <seb128> dpm, if it's buggy again I need to check why
[09:48] <dpm> seb128, ah, awesome, thanks
[09:48] <seb128> np
[09:48] <seb128> I will check that today
[09:50] <dpm> seb128, thanks a lot, if you need more info, just let me know. In my system the Rhythmbox entry is translated for example, whereas Evolution is not.
[09:50] <seb128> rhythmbox does use X-GNOME-FullName though
[09:50] <dpm> seb128, yeah, that was the weird thing
[09:52] <seb128> dpm, can you delete /usr/share/applications/desktop*cache?
[09:52] <seb128> dpm, and run gnome-panel --replace
[09:52] <seb128> dpm, and tell me if that fixes the broken entries
[09:52] <seb128> I think it's another pitti's bog
[09:52] <dpm> ok, let me try that
[09:52] <seb128> the cache doesn't have the translated value there for X-GNOME-FullName
[09:52] <seb128> ie has for Name and Comment though
[09:55] <dpm> seb128, great, that fixed it
[09:55] <seb128> dpm, ok good, so my glib fixes work
[09:55] <seb128> dpm, I will get that cache bug fixed too
[09:55] <seb128> dpm, thanks for pointing it
[09:55] <dpm> seb128, awesome, thanks to you :)
[09:59]  * pitti apologizes for screwing up so much
[10:00] <seb128> pitti, only those who do nothing don't screw anything there ;-)
[10:00] <seb128> pitti, I'm looking into that issue right now
[10:00] <seb128> I'm wondering if that's something to change in pyxdg
[10:01] <seb128> pitti, ok, gotcha
[10:02] <seb128> pitti, there is no getX-GNOME-FullName
[10:02] <seb128> in pyxdg
[10:02] <seb128> so it goes
[10:02] <seb128>         except AttributeError:
[10:02] <seb128>             val = de.get(f)
[10:02] <pitti> you need to call the normal get() function with localize=True or so
[10:02] <seb128> pitti, well you do
[10:02] <seb128>     for f in fields:
[10:02] <seb128>         try:
[10:02] <seb128>             val = getattr(de, 'get' + f)()
[10:03] <seb128> so build "getKEY"
[10:03] <seb128> and the getX-GNOME-FullName breaks
[10:03] <pitti> right, that needs s apecial case
[10:03] <pitti> swap the 'a' and 's' :)
[10:03] <seb128> :-)
[10:04] <seb128> pitti, well we can add a
[10:04] <seb128> def getX-GNOME-FullName(self):
[10:04] <seb128>   return self.get('X-GNOME-FullName', locale=True)
[10:05] <pitti> but rather than changing pyxdg we could just handle that in the cache builder; seems easier
[10:05] <seb128> to pyxdg
[10:05] <pitti> also, identifiers must not have a '-' in the name
[10:05] <seb128> pitti, well I'm just wondering if other pyxdg users will have that issue too
[10:06] <seb128> pitti, ok so just special case the X-GNOME-FullName field in the menu cache to do a get with locale=True?
[10:06] <seb128> wfm
[10:06] <pitti> right
[10:07] <seb128> pitti, want me to do the change?
[10:07] <pitti> seb128: if you want to, go ahead; otherwise I can do it later on
[10:07] <seb128> pitti, or will you do it while you look at the utf8 change?
[10:07] <pitti> right, I can do both alongside
[10:07] <seb128> ok good thanks
[10:07] <seb128> do you want a bug about that?
[10:07] <pitti> seb128: is there a bug for this issue which I need to close?
[10:07] <pitti> heh, snap
[10:08] <seb128> dpm, ^
[10:08] <seb128> dpm, do you have a bug for that X-GNOME-FullName not translated?
[10:08] <TeTeT> asac: I've compiled network manager now with dhcpcd and w/o dhclient, but the options seem to get ignored. here's my debian/rules file: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/383586/
[10:08] <seb128> dpm, if not can you open a gnome-menus one?
[10:08] <pitti> seb128, dpm: if not, I just make a note in bug 517616
[10:08] <TeTeT> asac: alternatively I downloaded dhcp client 4 from isc.org and built it, works fine with it
[10:10] <seb128> chrisccoulson, do you want to do the g-s-d and g-c-c updates when you have time this week or next one?
[10:10] <seb128> I'm happy to let you those
[10:11] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can do those
[10:11] <seb128> thanks
[10:11] <chrisccoulson> i'll probably get them done before i start on monday
[10:12] <seb128> no hurry
[10:15] <dpm> pitti, seb128, I've got no problem in opening a new bug on gnome-menus for the cache issue, but if it's the same as bug 517616, I'll just add a note there, what do you prefer?
[10:15] <seb128> pitti, ok, rsync is taking longer that I was expecting for the few changes we had and I'm done with the other thing I was looking at now
[10:15] <seb128> dpm, no it's not the same issue but it's in the same code
[10:15] <pitti> dpm: works for me
[10:15] <seb128> if pitti says it works for him just do that
[10:16] <seb128> pitti, I can look with you at the meeting wikipage now if you want
[10:16] <dpm> just add a comment, then?
[10:16] <seb128> pitti, or start on something else if we keep morning for hacking ;-)
[10:17] <pitti> seb128: if we could delay it until the afternoon, I'd prefer that, but I can drop my current work if it's convenient for you now
[10:17] <seb128> pitti, no, afternoon is fine, I've enough tasks to pick on
[10:17]  * seb128 starts next task ;-)
[10:18] <pitti> seb "task machine" astien
[10:18] <seb128> lol
[10:20] <chrisccoulson> heh ;)
[10:20] <chrisccoulson> i wish logitech would stop making keyboards without indicator LED's on them
[10:20] <chrisccoulson> i own 2 such keyboards now
[10:20] <chrisccoulson> and there's no way of telling when caps lock is on
[10:21] <seb128> do you have a cord for those?
[10:21] <seb128> usually the not led it to spare power on cordless devices
[10:21] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - they're cordless ;)
[10:21] <chrisccoulson> that's a good point about saving power
[10:22] <seb128> I usually have standard keyboard
[10:22] <seb128> I don't move the keyboard enough to need a cordless one
[10:22] <seb128> it's nice for the mouse though
[10:22] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i probably should have got a standard keyboard
[10:29] <huats> Hello everyone
[10:30] <chrisccoulson> hey huats
[10:31] <huats> hey chrisccoulson
[10:31] <huats> chrisccoulson, just a question do you ever sleep ????
[10:31] <huats> :)
[10:32] <chrisccoulson> huats - yeah, i sleep between 4am and 7am usually ;)
[10:32] <chrisccoulson> although, i've been getting to bed earlier for the last couple of weeks
[10:32] <huats> :)
[10:32] <chrisccoulson> my daughter sleeps all night now ;)
[10:33] <huats> great !
[10:43] <tseliot> seb128, mpt: so, if upstream doesn't revert the "tabs at the bottom" change, are we going to stick with it?
[10:43] <seb128> tseliot, why not?
[10:43] <seb128> I don't really care either way I don't use tabs
[10:44] <seb128> if there is no design team recommendations we will stick with upstream behaviour
[10:44] <chrisccoulson> i find the tabs at the bottom mildly annoying
[10:45] <chrisccoulson> i use them quite a bit
[10:45] <tseliot> seb128: it's just a question. Having it at the bottom makes me less productive. Tabs are usually at the top. This change breaks my assumptions on where tabs are
[10:45] <tseliot> I use tabs a lot
[10:45] <seb128> well as said I don't use tabs in nautilus so I've no opinion
[10:46] <chrisccoulson> it wouldn't be trivial to revert the change. it's not just a case of moving the tabs again, as other UI elements have been changed to get the alignment correct
[10:46] <tseliot> ok, let's see what mpt says
[10:46] <tseliot> oh, so isn't it just this change? http://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/commit/?id=c6ee7553fd029239eff50d32dbcb57223ffa185e
[10:46] <seb128> tseliot, right check with mpt or djsiegel
[10:47] <tseliot> ok
[10:47] <chrisccoulson> tseliot - i don't think so. there were further changes after that, as moving the tabs messed up the alignment of all the other elements
[10:48] <chrisccoulson> they would need to be reverted too, and then i don't know how that fits with the new split view that was added (which is the main reason for the change)
[10:49] <tseliot> chrisccoulson: reverting the change would need some testing (definitely in a PPA)
[10:50] <chrisccoulson> i'm trying to find the other changes atm
[10:50] <seb128> I don't think reverting would be hard if we want that
[10:50] <seb128> reading planet gnome I think design team view is that adding split view sucks
[10:50] <seb128> it complicates the ui and was not really required
[10:51] <tseliot> I've never used that
[10:51] <seb128> but we have no going to undo that change...
[10:52]  * tseliot asks in #design
[10:53] <tjaalton> I hate the tabs on bottom
[10:54] <seb128> I'm surprised by how many of you use tabs in a filemanager ;-)
[10:54] <tjaalton> obviously firefox needs to adapt as well..
[10:54] <tjaalton> it's better than opening several windows
[10:54] <tjaalton> with sidebars etc
[10:54] <seb128> I don't find it to be the case
[10:54] <seb128> easier to dnd between things open together
[10:55] <tjaalton> though until nautilus supports rubberbanding on listview I'll keep disliking it :)
[10:55] <tjaalton> but there's no real option either
[10:55] <tjaalton> dnd works between tabs just fine
[10:55] <chrisccoulson> tseliot: that's the other change btw - http://git.gnome.org/browse/nautilus/commit/?id=89c29e1beb04b7f0cc751976bff052af26faf8cd
[10:56] <tseliot> chrisccoulson: wouldn't it be easier to just disable the extra pane?
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> am i the only one who uses split view?
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> and tabs? ;)
[10:57] <tseliot> ah
[10:57] <tseliot> maybe ;)
[10:57] <tjaalton> I use tabs
[10:59] <tseliot> maybe we could revert these 2 changes and put the packages in a PPA for testing
[10:59] <tseliot> just to see how it goes
[10:59] <chrisccoulson> i assume split view will be necessary in the gnome-shell world
[11:00] <tseliot> it looks like the extra pane will go away
[11:00] <seb128> it's not
[11:00] <tseliot> (this is what they decided at the hackfest)
[11:01] <seb128> the split view was added because alex said nautilus is moving from being a way to browse your files to manage those
[11:01] <seb128> default was special because nautilus was there to find things you need an open those
[11:01] <seb128> that usecase is handled better in gnome-shell with recent documents etc
[11:01] <seb128> and activites
[11:01] <seb128> so now the main purpose and to organize your files
[11:01] <seb128> which justify extra options to make that easier
[11:02] <seb128> like splited view, tabs, etc
[11:02] <asac> * language-pack-${Languages} [i386 amd64 powerpc]
[11:03] <asac> why do you think armel doesnt want language-packs ;)?
[11:03] <thekorn> didrocks, what is the correct target for a bugreport to exclude an application from beeing maximized in UNE? the application itself?
[11:03] <asac> ;)
[11:05] <didrocks> thekorn: ubuntu-netbook-default-settings
[11:05] <thekorn> didrocks, okidoki, thanks
[11:05] <didrocks> thekorn: just ensure first that the discussion is valid. It's really when the application is unusable/crappy in fullscreen
[11:06] <didrocks> thekorn: don't want to start a holy war on that :)
[11:06] <thekorn> didrocks, starting onboard fullscreen just makes no sense
[11:06] <didrocks> thekorn: it's a duplicate
[11:06] <thekorn> ok
[11:07] <didrocks> thekorn: there was already one bug and it's fix commited yesterday. I'm just waiting for end of alpha 3 freeze
[11:07] <thekorn> great, you rock
[11:07] <didrocks> thekorn: thanks for triaging this :)
[11:08] <seb128> asac, who is using armel anyway? ;-)
[11:08] <seb128> asac, but good question I don't know why those should be arch specific
[11:08] <asac> :)
[11:08] <seb128> pitti might know
[11:09] <asac> there have been a bunch of changes lately with [i386 amd64 powerpc]
[11:09] <asac> some are right though (e.g. ooo)
[11:09] <seb128> you feel second class citizen? ;-)
[11:11] <didrocks> asac: not sure about the CD size, I let the default, just add new locals :p feel free to change the seed
[11:13] <asac> didrocks: right. please whenever you use [i386 amd64 powerpc] ... include armel - except for OOO ;)
[11:13] <didrocks> asac: ok, let's take this rule :)
[11:13] <asac> cool
[11:16] <didrocks> njpatel_: bg cache now in netbook-launcher :)
[11:16] <njpatel_> didrocks, awesome!
[11:19] <seb128> didrocks, did you make it use gnome-bd?
[11:19] <seb128> gnome-bg
[11:20] <didrocks> seb128: no, unfortunately, there are some special cases in the code because of clutter and I'm afraid for issues with multi monitors
[11:33] <njpatel_> didrocks, wncksync daemon's packaging branch needs some love -- it's currently deleting autogen.sh etc
[11:33] <njpatel_> didrocks, do you want me to roll a release with a fixed extra-dist?
[12:03] <chrisccoulson> cake day today!
[12:19] <czajkowski> chrisccoulson: every day is a cake day
[12:55] <chrisccoulson> heh, everyone is happy here now they have cakes
[12:58] <seb128> hum, cake!
[12:58] <didrocks> pitti: about bug #527528. I can't reproduce it with a stock install. My guess is that he has a home folder already with a .dmrc and as we don't change the default session… Well, i'll update it, but it's not an alpha3 blocker in any way and not a bug IMHO :)
[13:06] <pitti> didrocks: no, not a blocker of any kind, but perhaps you can request some information (like ~/.dmrc and the gdm cache) to confirm?
[13:06] <pitti> didrocks: if it was a clean install, there shouldn't be any .dmrc?
[13:07] <didrocks> pitti: right, I asked for the home dir first
[13:07] <pitti> didrocks: merci (don't waste much time on it, low prio issue)
[13:09] <didrocks> I'm finishing my last test with netbook-launcher cahe, it seems to works fine. What I can do is to use the "zoom" transformation by default instead of the "stretched" one to share the share cache by default between GNOME and UNE
[13:14] <pitti> didrocks: poor you; but thanks for pushing this!
[13:14] <didrocks> pitti: no pb, "just finish the work©". well, I'm more sceptic for the ubiquity WI, we'll see :)
[13:42] <seb128> slomo, there?
[13:47] <slomo> seb128: sure
[13:47] <seb128> slomo, hey
[13:47] <seb128> slomo, what is this cairo break on xulrunner about?
[13:47] <seb128> slomo, did .10 break things?
[13:48] <slomo> seb128: xulrunner/gecko/firefox/bla has a bug that is exposed by new cairo: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=522635
[13:49] <seb128> asac, asac_: ^ do you know if that's an issue for lucid?
[13:49] <seb128> or do we use the firefox cairo copy now?
[13:49] <seb128> or do we use the firefox cairo copy now?
[13:49] <seb128> ups
[13:49] <seb128> slomo, also your changelog mention section changes but debdiff says control didn't change
[13:49] <seb128> out of the breaks
[13:50] <slomo> seb128: btw, please sync all the gstreamer packages once again :) these are gstreamer0.10, gst-plugins-{base,good,bad,ugly}0.10, gnonlin, gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg... releases are to be expected early next week
[13:50] <slomo> seb128: hm, thanks
[13:50] <seb128> slomo, I will do that after alpha3 freeze thanks
[13:51] <seb128> slomo, with the current versions I get some codec install issues btw...
[13:51] <seb128> slomo, I will try with all updates before pinging you though
[13:51] <seb128> slomo, I get the error dialog and then codec install kicking it
[13:51] <seb128> and not always
[13:51] <seb128> like I tried on an .asx and .avi and an .mp3
[13:51] <seb128> and it didn't work for the mp3
[13:52] <seb128> I just got the error dialog
[13:52] <slomo> hmm, if you give me some more details how to reproduce it i'll take a look
[13:52] <seb128> slomo, well here it's easy, install alpha3 and double click on a mp3
[13:52] <slomo> i tried it on a lot of files between .26.2 and .26.3 and it always worked
[13:52] <seb128> that's totem 2.29 and current gstreamer + base
[13:53] <slomo> only core and base? no gst-plugins-good?
[13:53] <seb128> slomo, I will try again with the files this guy listed on his bug
[13:53] <seb128> slomo, no, I did manage to got those in because the alpha3 freeze
[13:53] <seb128> slomo, that's why I said I would try again with everything uptodate
[13:54] <slomo> heh, well, without gst-plugins-good i get an error too :)
[13:54] <slomo> it doesn't find gconfaudiosink... but that's a bug in totem
[13:54] <seb128> euh
[13:54] <seb128> good is installed
[13:54] <slomo> ok
[13:55] <seb128> I just didn't do the pre version update
[13:55] <seb128> sorry I was not clear
[13:55] <seb128> anyway I will ping you back later or tomorrow once I got everything updated
[13:56] <slomo> not necessary, i can reproduce it *sigh* thanks for reporting
[13:56] <seb128> slomo, thank you ;-)
[13:57] <slomo> so, it seems that totem doesn't ignore the errors anymore :)
[13:57] <slomo> i'll try to get it fixed this week
[13:57] <seb128> excellent, you rock!
[14:00] <slomo> seb128: since when is it broken?
[14:00] <slomo> seb128: .26? .26.2?
[14:00] <seb128> slomo, hard to say, but .26 or before I would say
[14:01] <seb128> slomo, I don't do too much new install testing early in the cycle
[14:01] <seb128> but that guy who opened the bug upstream with all the example you tried was asking about it before 26.2
[14:09] <seb128> hey tedg
[14:09] <tedg> Howdy seb128
[14:10] <seb128> how are you?
[14:14] <pitti> tedg: howdy
[14:15] <tedg> Doing okay.  Running into IRC everywhere this morning :)
[14:16] <tedg> We need to unfreeze the archive to make people busy again ;)
[14:37] <kenvandine> CardinalFang, good morning
[14:38] <kenvandine> CardinalFang, what's the status of getting this merged?
[14:38] <kenvandine> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~cmiller/desktopcouch/get_port_through_dbus/+merge/20066
[14:38]  * kenvandine would love to get a dc upload after we are unfroze :)
[14:42] <aquarius> an upload would fix the -hashed-password bug too, I think
[14:47] <kenvandine> aquarius, yay :)
[15:02] <CardinalFang> kenvandine, aquarius, hi.  I haven't gotten it reviewed yet.  I add more yesterday, locally, to notice couchdb dying and to get a new port and re-advertise, but I think that's overkill now in the sober morning light.
[15:03] <CardinalFang> So, I'll get more eyes on what I have posted.
[15:10] <kenvandine> CardinalFang, thx
[15:11] <pitti> seb128: do you know who could look at bug 522897 ?
[15:11] <seb128> pitti, slomo?
[15:12] <seb128> pitti, I'm waiting for the freeze end to sync new gstreamer stack from debian
[15:12] <seb128> pitti, assign it to me if you want I will deal with testing after sync and asking slomo if required
[15:12] <pitti> seb128: thanks
[15:12] <seb128> np
[15:12]  * pitti crosses fingers that this ddeb run will finally wor
[15:12] <pitti> k
[15:14] <seb128> pitti, do you know when we are likely to unfreeze btw?
[15:15] <pitti> I don't, no; we got a kubuntu desktop rebuild an hour ago, so I guess we want to test this first
[15:26]  * kenvandine chuckles... 
[15:26] <kenvandine> just crashed aquarius' router again :)
[15:27] <seb128> tseliot, alex doesn't seem opposed to change back tabs position but is busy, he said he would welcome somebody working on a patch though
[15:29] <chrisccoulson> i could probably look at that if tseliot is busy
[15:29] <chrisccoulson> it could be a weekend thing ;)
[15:29] <tseliot> seb128: fantastic news :-) I can't promise anything but I might use my spare time (this is an oxymoron for me...) to do that. If chrisccoulson has more time, he's welcome to work on it
[15:30] <seb128> I think everybody there is busy so let's see who comes to do it first
[15:30]  * tseliot nods
[15:41] <nigelb> seb128: okay, I've finally pushed the rhythmbox branch with all the corrections :)
[15:41] <seb128> nigelb, thanks
[15:55] <chrisccoulson> wow, there are still cakes left here. i might have to take some home with me :)
[16:29] <pitti> chrisccoulson: nobody said "all you can eat _today and here_", after all :)
[16:29] <chrisccoulson> heh :)
[16:29] <chrisccoulson> i think i got too much food ;)
[16:41] <chrisccoulson> tedg - when libappindicator uses a fallback GtkStatusIcon, is it hiding the icon before unreffing it? or does it just unref it without hiding it first?
[16:42] <tedg> chrisccoulson: I'm not sure, I'm betting it just unrefs.  Is that causing an issue?
[16:42] <chrisccoulson> tedg - yes
[16:42] <chrisccoulson> it leaves space behind in the notification area, which causes unsightly gaps to appear, and grow for the life of the session
[16:43] <chrisccoulson> it's really a notification area bug, but other apps work around this by hiding it before unreffing it
[16:43] <tedg> chrisccoulson: Okay, I can fix that.
[16:43] <chrisccoulson> tedg - awesome, thanks :)
[16:43] <tedg> chrisccoulson: Though, it might discourage people from using the notification area ;)
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> lol
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> tedg - bug 526041 FYI (sorry about the misleading title, people are confusing multiple issues in the same report)
[16:44] <chrisccoulson> but that contains a screenshot of the issue
[16:50] <slomo> seb128: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=611101
[16:51] <slomo> seb128: fixes your codec installer bug
[16:51] <seb128> slomo, thanks!
[16:51] <seb128> slomo, btw do you know about bug #522897
[16:51] <seb128> ?
[16:52] <slomo> seb128: i'll apply that patch to the debian totem package when i'm updating it to 2.29.91 (today or tomorrow), you might want to add it to the ubuntu package too
[16:52] <seb128> slomo, it might be fixed in the updates I didn't sync yet
[16:52] <slomo> no, last time i tried this worked :)
[16:52] <seb128> slomo, yeah I will
[16:52] <slomo> but that was 1-2 months ago... better forward that upstream :)
[16:53] <seb128> I will install the updates first and do that if that's still buggy
[16:53] <seb128> thanks
[16:53] <slomo> nothing related to that changed between .2 and .3 (you already have .2?)
[16:54] <seb128> just for gst + base
[16:54] <slomo> oh ok
[16:57] <slomo> seb128: do you know of any other bad gstreamer related bugs?
[16:57] <seb128> not that I know about no
[16:57] <seb128> good work ;-)
[16:57] <slomo> great :)
[16:57] <slomo> thanks
[17:24] <Ng> does the indicator applet stuff support tooltips?
[17:25] <Ng> or do I need to shrug off the oppressive yoke of my habit of using gnome-power-manager's tooltip to know what my remaining uptime is? :)
[17:25] <seb128> no
[17:25] <seb128> it's a menu
[17:26] <Ng> it's a widget, so it *could* have tooltips if it wanted, but whatever. I just think it's worth mentioning that it's now quite inconvenient to find out how many minutes of battery you have left
[17:27] <seb128> how complicated is it to click?
[17:29] <Ng> seb128: I'm not trying to be difficult here, but it's two clicks and then scrolling down the list of battery attributes to see the time remaining
[17:29] <seb128> it should be an unsensitve label in the menu
[17:30] <seb128> not a submenu
[17:30] <Ng> I agree, that would be very fine :)
[17:30] <seb128> file a bug
[17:45] <pitti> Ng: or press the battery Fn key
[17:56] <seb128> kenvandine, there?
[17:57] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[17:57] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[17:57] <kenvandine> just filing crasher bugs against the music store :)
[17:57] <seb128> kenvandine, want me to look at the dx updates?
[17:58] <kenvandine> seb128, i can do it...
[17:58] <seb128> ok, as you want
[17:58] <kenvandine> i thought there wasn't any this week :)
[17:58] <kenvandine> seb128, if you have the time... having help is great!
[17:58] <kenvandine> :)
[17:58] <seb128> I already got 2 merge proposal from ted
[17:58] <kenvandine> but i don't want to keep you from more important stuff
[17:58] <kenvandine> are we free to upload now?
[17:59] <seb128> kenvandine, I will do the pending ones, not yet but I queue things for after freeze
[17:59] <seb128> I've some 20 minutes before sport and dinner
[17:59] <seb128> I will do the one ted sent
[17:59] <kenvandine> seb128, cool... grab the ones you have then :)
[17:59] <kenvandine> thx
[17:59] <seb128> and upload later
[17:59] <seb128> np
[18:00] <pitti> rickspencer3, seb128: anything you need me to do still before I stroll away for a long nice weekend without any computers? :-)
[18:00] <rickspencer3> pitti, no, thanks
[18:01] <seb128> pitti, no, enjoy the break!
[18:02] <pitti> cool, then I'll disappear for a bit to cook dinner
[18:02] <pitti> seb128: thanks, I'm sure I will
[18:21] <seb128> sport and dinner
[18:21] <seb128> be back later
[18:38] <chrisccoulson> good evening everyone
[18:39] <didrocks> pitti: enjoy the break pitti
[18:41] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[18:41] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson ;)
[18:41] <didrocks> dinner time
[18:41] <chrisccoulson> enjoy ;)
[18:41] <chrisccoulson> i don't think i'm going to eat dinner tonight
[18:41] <chrisccoulson> i ate so much at work
[18:41] <didrocks> cake… ;)
[18:42] <chrisccoulson> yeah, way too much of it ;)
[20:29] <hyperair> asac_: network-manager 0.8-0ubuntu4~nmt4~karmic seems incapable of using karmic's dhclient.
[20:29] <mvo_> rickspencer3: hi, do you happen to know if simple-scan is on par with features with xsane? does it support the fax and similar stuff? I ask because I'm currently in a discussion if u-m should automatically remove apps like xsane that were in the default install but are no longer (and got demoted to universe)
[20:30] <hyperair> asac_: my syslog shows dhclient printing a usage message
[20:30] <mvo_> (or someone else familiar with scanning?)
[20:33] <hyperair> asac_: this thread says it all: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8878195
[20:43] <mvo_> seb128: wb
[20:43] <mvo_> seb128: and sure enough I have a question :)
[20:43] <mvo_> seb128: hi, do you happen to know if simple-scan is on par with features with xsane? does it support the fax and similar stuff? I ask because I'm currently in a discussion if u-m should automatically remove apps like xsane that were in the default install but are no longer (and got demoted to universe)
[20:44] <seb128> mvo_, no it doesn't
[20:44] <seb128> mvo_, and it's not meant to be I think
[20:44] <seb128> mvo_, hey ;-)
[20:44] <mvo_> well, this make this discussion a bit harder for me then :/
[20:46] <seb128> mvo_, where, with you do you argue?
[20:46] <seb128> mvo_, we sort of had the discussion with pidgin and empathy previous cycle
[20:46] <asac_> huats: known. use dhcp 4.1.1 or downgrade until we inject that in the ppa
[20:46] <asac_> huats: unping ... that was for hyperair
[20:47] <mvo_> seb128: right, in a ideal world where we have upgrade pathes and equal featues its a no-brainer
[20:47] <mvo_> but in reality its a bit more complicated
[20:47] <huats> asac_, no pb
[20:47] <huats> hello btw alex :)
[20:49] <asac> hi ;)
[20:49] <mvo_> seb128: bug #518856
[20:52] <mvo_> seb128: what was the outcome of the discussion btw?
[20:53] <seb128> mvo_, that getting upgrades right is hard and that we do the bare minimal acceptable job but nothing great :p
[20:54] <seb128> mvo_, joke aside that we lack mechanism to handle that correctly
[20:54] <seb128> that being true for applications and user settings
[20:55] <seb128> my view is that we should not remove those but have the computer-janitor or something making suggestions of things to clean
[20:55] <seb128> like list both simple-scan and xscan with buttons to try both and saying "we recommend uninstalling this one if the other one fits your needs"
[20:56] <seb128> but I'm not sure other people would agree and that's not lucid material
[20:56]  * mvo_ nods
[20:56] <mvo_> yeah, making computer-janitor better is maybe the best way
[20:57] <mvo_> or improving u-m, but then who cares about xsane/simple-scan during a big ugprade
[20:57] <mvo_> yeah, thanks for your thoughts
[20:57] <seb128> I would just not remove those during upgrade and get some "do you want to learn about the new experience" after upgrade
[20:57] <mvo_> I think we need to discuss it at a uds and put some real effort behind it
[20:57] <seb128> which would open something which explain what changed and let you ie reset your look and feel to be default ubuntu one
[20:57]  * mvo_ nods
[20:58] <mvo_> yeah, so a framework for this
[20:58] <seb128> or see difference between softwares and let you decide if you want to clean the deprecated one
[21:03] <mvo_> seb128: *nod* - btw #501692 is something I see during hardy->lucid upgrades
[21:03] <mvo_> bug #501692
[21:04]  * mvo_ needs to go to bed
[21:05] <seb128> mvo_, 'night
[21:05] <seb128> mvo_, no idea without debugging for this one
[21:05] <mvo_> ok
[21:31] <robert_ancell> TheMuso, hey, I seem to have removed my audio volume, any idea how to get it back?
[21:33] <TheMuso> robert_ancell: Not sure how the indicator stuff starts up
[21:33] <TheMuso> I assume its an xdg desktop file but haven't looked.
[21:33] <seb128> it's not
[21:33] <seb128> the applet load the indicators installed
[21:33] <seb128> robert_ancell, is indicator-sound installed?
[21:33] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[21:34] <robert_ancell> seb128, yeah, I think I right clicked "remove" on it by accident the other day and can't find how to add it (it doesn't seem to be an applet, or a startup program)
[21:34] <seb128> you still have other indicators?
[21:34] <seb128> ie the message indicator one?
[21:35] <seb128> you might just want to put the indicator applet back in your config
[21:37] <robert_ancell> seb128, which config?
[21:37] <seb128> robert_ancell, the gnome-panel one
[21:38] <seb128> ie right click, add to gnome-pane, select notification applet there
[21:38] <seb128> gnome-panel
[21:38] <seb128> it's a "i" in a blue circle
[21:39] <robert_ancell> seb128, aha! That's going to confuse people :)
[21:39] <robert_ancell> thanks
[21:39] <seb128> np
[21:42] <seb128> robert_ancell, that also tells me you don't use the message indicator :p
[21:42] <seb128> you didn't notice that one was not there either
[21:42] <seb128> note that the same applet is used for applications too now
[21:42] <seb128> ie gnome-power-manager
[21:44] <robert_ancell> seb128, no, if you remove it the old power indicator appears.  I don't use the messaging menu though
[21:44] <seb128> ah right, appindicators fallback to notification area icons
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> huats - did you have something which needed sponsoring?
[21:44] <chrisccoulson> (i can't remember if you asked last night or not)
[21:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson, same question for you ;-)
[21:45] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[21:45] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson
[21:45] <chrisccoulson> i've not got anything which needs sponsoring just yet. there's a g-c-c crash fix in bzr, but that can wait until i've done the new upstream version too
[21:45] <seb128> ok
[22:02] <kenvandine> seb128, still around?
[22:02] <kenvandine> can you sponsor lp:~ubuntu-desktop/indicator-application/ubuntu
[22:03] <kenvandine> acl problem... still
[22:03] <seb128> kenvandine, ok
[22:03] <kenvandine> thx
[22:03] <seb128> kenvandine, "still around" is rather "just back"
[22:03] <kenvandine> hehe
[22:03] <seb128> and I will be around for a while still
[22:03]  * kenvandine has to go feed the kids
[22:03] <seb128> watching olympics games on tv
[22:03] <seb128> with the laptop near
[22:03] <kenvandine> will be back in a couple hours when they are in bed
[22:03] <kenvandine> :)
[22:04] <seb128> kenvandine, have fun!
[23:22] <Ng> pitti: that's a good point if you have such a key, and I do, but for some reason i always went for the tooltip
[23:42] <huats> chrisccoulson, thanks for your help for sponsoring
[23:42] <huats> I amwaiting for a sponsoring on pessulus and one on deskbar-applet