[07:08] <jussi01> nigelb: you were after me?
[07:09] <nigelb> jussi01: lol
[07:09] <nigelb> just wanted to gloat after yday's match :P
[07:09] <jussi01> nigelb: sshhhhh
[07:09] <jussi01> :D
[07:09] <nigelb> hahaha
[09:04] <AlanBell> is the mentoring thing on the agenda about giving mentoring, or getting mentoring, or both?
[09:08] <czajkowski> http://www.phpwomen.org/wordpress/2010/02/24/phpwomen-launches-partnership-program , interesting
[09:08] <czajkowski> AlanBell: I'd say both
[09:09] <czajkowski> seeing as it needs to be kick started adn explained
[09:12] <AlanBell> both seem like good things to encourage, but somewhat separate problems
[09:12] <czajkowski> well you need to discuss both really to move on
[09:15] <AlanBell> I like the criteria for the PHP partnership thing "you need to ensure us that your community is not made up of jerks"
[09:16] <czajkowski> dont think the ubuntu community is so we're kinda ok there :)
[09:16] <czajkowski> php is based up of so many groups, bit harder
[09:25] <AlanBell> oddly enough the only three people I could name as "PHP developers" i.e. not just people who do a bit of Wordpress/Joomla! hacking are all women.
[09:32] <czajkowski> Anyone in the UK - http://adalovelaceday2010.eventbrite.com/
[10:00] <wintellect> \o
[10:34] <czajkowski> Pendulum: Aloha
[10:36] <Pendulum> czajkowski: hiya
[10:36]  * Pendulum looks at the date
[10:36]  * Pendulum is nervous
[10:40] <czajkowski> what time is at, NON UTC time
[10:40] <czajkowski> like local USA time
[10:40] <Pendulum> 6PM eastern time
[10:41] <czajkowski> :D
[13:21] <AlanBell> @now eastern
[13:21] <AlanBell> no ubottu
[13:21] <AlanBell> !ping
[13:21] <ubot2> Here I am, brain the size of a planet and you expect me to respond to a ping? How depressing.
[14:20] <Pendulum> issyl0: thank you :)
[15:06] <czajkowski> Folks seen http://is-she-you.com/
[15:08] <AlanBell> not sure I get that
[15:09] <wintellect> the "+" letter used in one of the vids looks very much HP's font
[15:14]  * AlanBell predicts that if whatever it is takes off there will be lots of not very witty "woman + car = accident" joke attempts on twitter
[15:14] <czajkowski> aye
[15:14] <czajkowski> if it takes off correctly
[15:15] <czajkowski> it could be interesting
[15:56] <czajkowski> dholbach: aloha :)
[15:56] <dholbach> hi czajkowski
[15:57] <Pendulum> hiya dholbach
[15:57] <dholbach> hola Pendulum
[16:08] <Pendulum> akgraner: is there a mention of this channel on the UW wiki yet? (I haven't had a chance to look)
[16:08] <Pendulum> because I'm not sure many people know it exists
[16:08] <czajkowski> not seen it tbh
[16:08] <czajkowski> I should blog
[16:26] <czajkowski> http://www.lczajkowski.com/2010/02/25/ubuntu-women-new-channel/
[16:26] <czajkowski> done
[16:27] <Pendulum> \o/
[16:27] <nigelb> that was fast
[16:27] <czajkowski> yeah I'm cracking up with this ticket
[16:27] <Pendulum> nigelb: czajkowski is a speed blogger ;)
[16:27] <nigelb> Pendulum: hehe
[16:27] <czajkowski> that and not much content goes into my blogs
[16:29] <akgraner> Pendulum, not yet if you want to handle that you can.. just haven't gotten to it on my list :-)
[16:29] <czajkowski> akgraner: yer alive!
[16:30] <Pendulum> I will try to remember to do it tonight (not right now as I'm trying to balance work and helping with a -classroom session)
[16:30] <Pendulum> akgraner: how're you recovering from the weekend?
[16:30] <akgraner> I have a voice now :-)
[16:30] <czajkowski> Pendulum: and you've got your membership tonight
[16:31] <akgraner> but construction is happening - so it's a mad house here atm
[16:31] <Pendulum> czajkowski: Like I could forget :P
[16:32] <nigelb> thanks for the reminder czajkowski.  I had forgotten to add my testimonial :)
[16:32] <akgraner> Pendulum, good Luck I have plans to attend to lend support :-)
[16:32] <Pendulum> akgraner: thanks :)
[16:33] <Pendulum> everyone except me seems pretty confident I'll be fine. I was hit by a bundle of nerves last night and czajkowski can tell you I'm now thinking of everything that could go wrong
[16:33] <czajkowski> including snow storm
[16:33] <czajkowski> bus break down
[16:33] <czajkowski> no internet
[16:33] <czajkowski> we've covered all aspects of a work around :)
[16:33] <Pendulum> don't say no internet, I hadn't thought of that one :(
[16:34] <nigelb> Pendulum: we'll mail chris' phone down to you
[16:34] <Pendulum> nigelb: I can get on from my phone
[16:34] <nigelb> there you go, work around
[16:41] <akgraner> czajkowski, yep I was holding off on the wiki stuff as we need to add some content about this channel as well not just point to it :-)  But if we can get the content done and added that would be great :-)
[16:42] <czajkowski> akgraner: I guess to the IRC Guidelines we need to add a section about the 2 channels
[16:44] <akgraner> czajkowski, yep wanna put up a gobby doc or the other thing you use and we (and anyone else who wants) can collaborate on it and get that done?
[16:45] <czajkowski> akgraner: will do that tonight I plan on being online all evening
[16:45] <czajkowski> provided my evil ISP stays up!
[16:46] <czajkowski> but there really isnt anything else to say bar point out the 2 channels and point out one is logged and the other isn't tbh
[16:46] <akgraner> hehe yeah I will be online as well... only about 150 emails to reply to now *sigh*
[16:47] <hypa7ia> on box zero?  i'm happy when i have inbox <1000
[16:47] <hypa7ia> :(
[16:47] <akgraner> guidelines I was thinking was just a quick blurb about them not a long drawn out thing
[16:47] <hypa7ia> *inbox
[16:47] <nigelb> hypa7ia: 0_o
[16:47] <nigelb> I thought I got plenty of mails (50 a day)
[16:47] <akgraner> hypa7ia, I am not sure I want to see that many emails in my inbox
[16:47] <czajkowski> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IrcGuidelines
[16:47]  * AlanBell is at inbox 100718
[16:47] <czajkowski> see we have this http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IrcGuidelines
[16:48] <AlanBell> oh hang on, not that bad
[16:48] <AlanBell> 10718
[16:48] <czajkowski> personally I don;'t think the oper guidelines should be on that page
[16:48]  * nigelb wonders if AlanBell added zeros thinking it has no value ;)
[16:48] <czajkowski> perhaps as a seperate page
[16:48]  * czajkowski has inbox 12 
[16:48] <AlanBell> czajkowski: there are a few other pages if you search, like how to use irssi etc
[16:48] <czajkowski> however I need to send 14 mails
[16:49] <czajkowski> AlanBell: but that;'s not got anything to do with the Guidelines fpr IRC specific to -women/-women-project
[16:50] <akgraner> yep just a small blurb about the channels -
[16:50] <hypa7ia> yeah, most of that existing page applies to both
[16:50] <AlanBell> no, and the guidelines should be done once, just there might be more pages than you expect that just tell people one channel they should join
[16:50] <czajkowski> hypa7ia: aye
[16:51] <czajkowski> but again should oper inforamtion be on IRC Guidelines
[16:51] <hypa7ia> makes sense to me to split that off into like OperGuidelines or something
[16:51]  * hypa7ia logs in
[16:52] <czajkowski> hypa7ia: aye
[16:52] <czajkowski> as it makes the page rather long and I'd rather add the blurbs there
[16:52] <akgraner> hypa7ia, yep.. I just thought to tell people to join both and outline the differences nothing drawn out
[16:54] <hypa7ia> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IRCOpGuidelines && http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IrcGuidelines done
[16:55] <czajkowski> hypa7ia: you edit wikis FAST!
[16:55] <czajkowski> fecker :p
[16:55]  * akgraner refreshes page
[16:56]  * hypa7ia is good at the copy and paste :)
[16:56] <akgraner> so now we just need to add the info about the -project stuff right
[16:57] <hypa7ia> yar
[16:57] <czajkowski> http://etherpad.com/NuiXuXVLF4
[16:57] <czajkowski> akgraner: hypa7ia http://etherpad.com/NuiXuXVLF4
[16:58] <hypa7ia> we also need to update https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayCha
[16:58] <hypa7ia> err https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat
[16:59] <hypa7ia> mentoring and volunteering stuff should be in -project
[16:59] <Pendulum> also isn't there a webgateway on the UW page? shouldn't that direct here now?
[16:59] <hypa7ia> Pendulum: probably
[16:59] <hypa7ia> well we could also have links for both super easily
[17:00] <hypa7ia> what page is that on, Pendulum ?
[17:02] <Pendulum> I don't know off the top of my head and I'm at work so can't easily find it now
[17:02] <hypa7ia> kk
[17:02] <AlanBell> it is on the home page of the wiki
[17:03] <hypa7ia> who's the contact person for this channel?
[17:03] <Pendulum> akgraner: ^^ ?
[17:04] <akgraner> hypa7ia, me :-)
[17:04] <hypa7ia> ok, i figured :)
[17:05] <akgraner> I don't think I added any of that stuff yet.. I set the channel up  - added a few ops then had to go to SCaLE so there are still some things that need to be tweaked
[17:05] <hypa7ia> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/InternetRelayChat is fixed
[17:07] <AlanBell> which channel will meetings be held in?
[17:07] <akgraner> I also need to add the join message about logging here as well...and stick it in the topic  ahh how did I miss that...??
[17:08] <AlanBell> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Meetings may or may not need to be updated
[17:08] <hypa7ia> AlanBell: ooh good point
[17:08] <akgraner> AlanBell, this one - I have to send that to the list as well...:-)  Do you want to drop the MootBot-uk in here?
[17:08] <AlanBell> and mootbot may or may not need moving
[17:08]  * hypa7ia tries to figure out etherpad
[17:08] <AlanBell> I could ask Daviey to do that
[17:09] <akgraner> AlanBell, Thanks :-)
[17:09]  * AlanBell pokes Daviey with a please add mootbot-uk here shaped stick
[17:09] <akgraner> hypa7ia, sorta like gobby but easier I think
[17:09] <akgraner> :-)
[17:10] <hypa7ia> how do i tell it my name?
[17:10] <akgraner> hmm mine just shows up when I join
[17:10] <hypa7ia> mine showed up as czajkowski, lol
[17:13] <nigelb> hypa7ia: just click at the side there should be a color and name field
[17:15] <AlanBell> hypa7ia: oops sorry! that was me.
[17:16] <hypa7ia> hehe
[17:16] <issyl0> Pendulum: oh, no problem :)
[17:16] <AlanBell>  you should be able to edit it if you click it I think
[17:17] <Pendulum> you can :)
[17:18] <AlanBell> if someone is on and hasn't named themselves anyone can guess at it
[17:19] <czajkowski> one of me is more than enough folks
[17:26]  * AlanBell notes a general lack of disagreement to the last point :-)
[17:26] <czajkowski> :p
[17:27] <czajkowski> Have a query re
[17:27] <czajkowski> ubuntu-women - this channel is for the discussion of all non-project related topics: social discussions, issues
[17:28] <czajkowski> i had thought it was to be used more if ther ewas an issue in the public that needed more private discussion ?
[17:28] <czajkowski> or am I wrong ?
[17:28] <Pendulum> I think it's a bit of both
[17:29] <hypa7ia> rather than saying issues we could say "anything that folks don't want to discuss in a logged channel"
[17:29] <czajkowski> but that could be anything....
[17:29] <czajkowski> like I think ireland should be win the world cup
[17:30] <hypa7ia> ok, "anything that folks don't want to discuss in a logged channel that is relevant to the work of the ubuntu-women project"
[17:30] <czajkowski> hence why I was saying, issues. again could be me just over simplifying it
[17:30] <hypa7ia> i mean it's a social channel
[17:31] <czajkowski> -women issues that you dont want made public, -w-p for all other stuff
[17:31] <czajkowski> hypa7ia: aye, I just dont want folks killing coversation as has happned in here when social chat was happening and folks were being chatting and then next second there were 8 hrs of silence
[17:32] <nigelb> later folks, work :)
[17:32] <czajkowski> nigelb: bye
[17:35] <hypa7ia> since the main purpose of logging this channel is to make it accessible to non-irc-ers and folks who aren't perma-connected, i think we should try to stay on-topic
[17:36] <hypa7ia> i mean, that is the purpose, right?
[17:37] <Daviey> Hallo
[17:38] <czajkowski> hypa7ia: social chat still happens on project channels, tis a fact of life and human nature to just talk
[17:38] <czajkowski> Daviey: oi oi :)
[17:38] <AlanBell> Hi Daviey
[17:39] <hypa7ia> czajkowski: of course, doesn't mean we can't try to keep it to the social channel :)
[17:39] <czajkowski> I'm sure we cna try, but folks telling me to shut up again will likely be met with  feck off in a more inpolite manner
[17:39] <czajkowski> :)
[17:40] <akgraner> hypa7ia, maybe something like - in an effort to keep the logs as project related as possible for longer social discussion please go to -women???
[17:40] <czajkowski> well thats' only if someone has a problem with stuff being discussed in a logged channel
[17:40] <czajkowski> I'd like to see you tell the lads over in -desktop/-release to move their chat please
[17:40] <Pendulum> I think some of it is that some of us are more comfortable doing all our chatting in logged channels
[17:40] <hypa7ia> akgraner: that's what i'd prefer in the guidelines
[17:41] <akgraner> czajkowski, Pendulum no one is saying you can't have social chat in here.. but just offering a loose guideline - just like saying the CoC applies is a guideline
[17:41] <hypa7ia> Pendulum: i understand that, but that wasn't the consensus to come out of the voting process
[17:42] <czajkowski> akgraner: lose is one thing, being told to shut up and move your conversation elsewhere I have objections with
[17:42] <akgraner> that wording was used?
[17:43] <czajkowski> yes
[17:43] <hypa7ia> when was this, ?
[17:43] <czajkowski> earlier on this week
[17:43]  * akgraner is surprised  - I have not read all the logs from when I was at SCaLE.
[17:44] <AlanBell> I believe the wording was slightly different, but going over it would be overly pedantic
[17:44] <hypa7ia> no, i think it's important to clarify this
[17:45] <AlanBell> well it is in the logs of course!
[17:46] <AlanBell> I think it would be rather tiresome if there were repeated discussions in here of what constitues off-topic
[17:46] <hypa7ia> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/02/23/%23ubuntu-women-project.html#t15:56 i presume
[17:46] <hypa7ia> that was a little more polite than "shut up"
[17:47] <hypa7ia> i'll go back through the logs of the discussion on the new channel, but i'm pretty sure the intention wasn't to have two primarily-social channels
[17:47] <akgraner> czajkowski, I hate that happened and thus the need to clarify that social discussion CAN happen in both channels so there is no confusion on this..
[17:48] <czajkowski> akgraner: yes
[17:48] <AlanBell> as I understand it this is primarily project related and the other one is exclusively social
[17:48] <czajkowski> and yes prolly more politer than shut up, but being told to stop talking socially, when there was people talking, sjust made everyone stop. which to me seems counter productive.
[17:48] <czajkowski> now I need to cook dinner
[17:48] <akgraner> hypa7ia, the one constant was that social chatter would naturally happen in both places - but that it would be encouraged for the social stuff to happen in -women
[17:49] <hypa7ia> akgraner: that was my understanding too
[17:49] <czajkowski> Andre_Gondim: aloha
[17:49] <Andre_Gondim> czajkowski, hi
[17:49] <hypa7ia> it's not that social stuff can't happen here, but that it's preferred to be in #u-w
[17:49] <czajkowski> Andre_Gondim: not seen you here before, so welcome
[17:50] <Andre_Gondim> czajkowski, a just saw the post on planet, is it welcome man here?
[17:50] <czajkowski> Andre_Gondim: yes
[17:50] <akgraner> but if the conversation is not inappropriate then I can't see asking someone to move it..:-/ again a loose guideline
[17:50] <czajkowski> Andre_Gondim: of course, many are in here welcome.
[17:50] <Andre_Gondim> sounds good :d
[17:51] <czajkowski> go figure people read my blog :)
[17:51] <Andre_Gondim> :D
[17:51] <czajkowski> always makes me laugh
[17:51] <akgraner> czajkowski, people love your blog!
[17:51] <czajkowski> akgraner: hehe
[17:51] <hypa7ia> Andre_Gondim: for a good idea of what's appropriate, have a look at the link in the channel /topic
[17:51] <hypa7ia> :)
[17:51] <MarkDude> czajkowski, Yes you do some stuff worth reading :)
[17:52] <Andre_Gondim> ok, I will recommend this channel for my ladys' friend
[17:52] <hypa7ia> the way irclogs.ubuntu.com are organized annoys me :(
[17:52]  * Mamarok sighs and ponders leaving that project alltogether, everything getting utterly diluted and making no sense anymore
[17:53] <akgraner> Mamarok, I am sorry you feel that way - the only real difference is the addition of an IRC channel - the project still has the same goals
[17:54] <Mamarok> akgraner: well, I just don't see the point of a second channel anymore if both will be just social chatter
[17:54] <hypa7ia> no kidding
[17:54] <Mamarok> which puts a very bad light on a project aimed at facilitating women in technbology
[17:54] <Mamarok> so one chatter channel is really enough, two is nonsense
[17:54] <akgraner> I am hoping this one won't be "heavy" with social stuff - but it is bound to have some social chatter in it..
[17:55] <Mamarok> akgraner: so far it is heva on social stuff only, so the goal was obviously missed
[17:55] <Mamarok> heavy*
[17:56] <akgraner> yes, because no one is bringing up project stuff (well this conversation is)...
[17:56] <AlanBell> the agenda is a bit light at the moment, just mentoring to discuss (which we did earlier btw)
[17:56] <akgraner> AlanBell, but not in detail
[17:57] <Mamarok> and is is diluted by chatter over and over
[17:57] <Mamarok> so how on earth are you going to trace real stuff form chatter?
[17:57] <Mamarok> s/from/in/
[17:57] <akgraner> Mamarok, which is why I wanted to work on the guidelines and get that added..
[17:57] <AlanBell> no, not in detail, as yet
[17:58] <Mamarok> akgraner: then why allowing chatter in here anyway? Didn't we decide on the other one being purely chatter?
[17:58] <AlanBell> are there other topics to add to the agenda?
[17:58] <Mamarok> chatter in both is true and utter nonsense
[17:58] <akgraner> Mamarok, chatter will naturally happen
[17:58] <Mamarok> we could as well move to a facebook group then
[17:59] <Mamarok> akgraner: not if it is not allowed
[17:59] <hypa7ia> there is a facebook group :)
[17:59] <Mamarok> hypa7ia: you miss my point
[17:59] <akgraner> AlanBell, yep I have a few I'll add then soon, but I have to run to a meeting - I'll catch back up on the logs  - should only be on the call for an hour or less
[17:59] <hypa7ia> Mamarok: i was being intentionally obtuse :)
[17:59] <AlanBell> akgraner: great
[17:59] <hypa7ia> Mamarok: have you seen http://etherpad.com/NuiXuXVLF4 and do you have any suggestions for it?
[18:01] <AlanBell> I will be updating the spreadsheets of members tomorrow
[18:01] <Mamarok> hypa7ia: well, I am strongly opposed to any chatter in this room
[18:02] <Mamarok> it dilutes the aim of it, and since it is a logged channel for project related talk, it should really *not* allow social chit-chat
[18:02] <james_w> how does "discussion of all non-project related topics" mesh with "Social chat is still welcomed?"
[18:02] <hypa7ia> hrm, that wording is a bit weird james_w
[18:03] <akgraner> it's a work in progress..
[18:03] <akgraner> waiting for my phone to ring...*sigh*
[18:04] <james_w> ring ring
[18:04] <Mamarok> akgraner: so the line with "Social chat is still welcomed has to go, I am strongly against it
[18:04] <hypa7ia> yeah
[18:04] <hypa7ia> i'm with that
[18:04] <hypa7ia> i'd prefer to see "social chat is discouraged from this channel as it is intended to focus on the concrete work of the project" or somesuch
[18:05] <Mamarok> good wording :)
[18:05] <hypa7ia> not "it's banninated" but definitely "discouraged
[18:05] <akgraner> I like that wording but note some social chat will happen naturally (good morning, how are you, stuff like that)
[18:06] <hypa7ia> yeah, that's fair - i think that falls within "discouraged" :)
[18:06] <Mamarok> akgraner: that is OK, but what currently happens is just random chit-chat that definitely doesn't belong here
[18:06] <AlanBell> it is possible to be friendly *and* relevant
[18:06] <hypa7ia> AlanBell: friendly does not necessarily mean long drawn out social chatter
[18:08] <akgraner> on the call now  - brb
[18:08] <hypa7ia> kk
[18:10] <AlanBell> I have to say I am more worried about long drawn out and damaging discussions of what isn't relevant. Just lead by example and steer discussions towards relevant things.
[18:11] <hypa7ia> oh, which reminds me, if anyone's in a channel that jono's in, please remind him that suggestions like his blogging-about-IWD thing should probably go in here rather than #u-w
[18:11] <Mamarok> and to the mailing list
[18:11] <AlanBell> hypa7ia: that has already been mentioned to him
[18:11] <hypa7ia> AlanBell: i'm pretty sick of talking about this too
[18:11] <hypa7ia> AlanBell: ah, cool, thanks
[18:11] <AlanBell> thank popey not me
[18:15] <Pendulum> complete change of topic: anyone else interested to see the stories for the International Women's Day contest?
[18:16] <hypa7ia> yes!
[18:16] <Pendulum> I absolutely failed to enter due to a last minute work thing that ate my weekend, sadly :(
[18:17]  * hypa7ia has a new job, seems like a reasonable excuse :)
[18:17] <Pendulum> heh
[18:17] <Pendulum> I should really just blog about it
[18:17] <Pendulum> (I'm a failed blogger... I think my last entry was December)
[18:17] <czajkowski> hypa7ia: whats the new job ?
[18:17] <czajkowski> still in Toronto ?
[18:24] <hypa7ia> new job is consulting, i'm still in Toronto
[18:24] <hypa7ia> but i don't really want to talk about my job in here.
[18:25] <czajkowski> ok
[18:25] <czajkowski> Came across this today http://women.acm.org/
[18:26] <hypa7ia> i think maco's involved with them
[18:27] <czajkowski> looks interesting
[18:34] <Pendulum> cool
[18:56]  * hypa7ia refers the discussion in http://etherpad.com/NuiXuXVLF4 over here
[18:56] <Mamarok> good idea
[18:56] <hypa7ia> folks were going to leave the project if #ubuntu-women was logged too
[18:56] <hypa7ia> we can't expect to keep everyone happy
[18:57] <Mamarok> and those were group decisions
[18:57] <hypa7ia> and the clear thing that emerged from the discussions about a second channel was a need for /project-related/ discussions to be visible
[18:57] <hypa7ia> that is the clear will of the project
[18:57] <hypa7ia> from this whole process
[18:57] <hypa7ia> and turning this into a social-as-well channel, to me, derails that
[18:58] <czajkowski> I'm not saying social channel, I'm saying social chat will happen.
[18:58] <czajkowski> folks may not want to joing the unlogged channel. I for one Don't
[18:58] <hypa7ia>  /but should be discouraged/
[18:58] <czajkowski> I'm not the only one
[18:58] <hypa7ia> i'd love to hear from other folks who feel the same, czajkowski, as yours is the only voice i've been hearing
[18:59] <hypa7ia> s/hearing/seeing/
[18:59] <czajkowski> well then I'll keep shut so
[18:59] <Mamarok> czajkowski: it was a group decision, like it or not
[18:59] <hypa7ia> sigh, czajkowski - that wasn't a shut up, that was a please get those other folks to speak up too
[18:59] <Mamarok> but being member of a group means to accept the rules made by the group
[19:00] <czajkowski> Mamarok: yes but your dictating what we can and cannot socially chat about
[19:00] <czajkowski> social chatter happens in every channel
[19:00] <Pendulum> honestly, I'm really not into being in the unlogged channel either
[19:00] <hypa7ia> but when projects have two channels, the chatter is encouraged to be moved to the -offtopic or other social channel
[19:00] <Mamarok> czajkowski: I don't think I am dictating, but it is obvious that we wanted this channel to be -project only
[19:00] <hypa7ia> see #ubuntu vs #ubuntu-offtopic
[19:00] <Pendulum> I'm not bothering to join when I'm at work and I'm not really paying attention to it when I'm home
[19:01] <Pendulum> mostly because I am far more comfortable with logged channels than unlogged channels
[19:01] <Mamarok> Pendulum: you can keep personal logs, you know that?
[19:01] <hypa7ia> ok, so that's a second person, thank you Pendulum
[19:02]  * akgraner catches up - off my call :-)
[19:02] <Mamarok> hypa7ia: don't yu think we should ask everybody? Hence asking on the mailing list
[19:02] <Mamarok> you*
[19:02]  * AlanBell is more comfortable with logged channels
[19:02]  * hypa7ia just doesn't get the appeal of public logs for social chatter, grep is so much easier
[19:02] <AlanBell> sounds like an agenda item to me
[19:02]  * Mamarok doesn't care, Internet is a bublic space anyway
[19:02] <Mamarok> public*
[19:02] <MarkDude> I feel apprehensive to speak on some subjects. I dont want to offend UW. These conversations make my brain hurt. Im trying to help & learn stuff here. Im thinking Ill PM my friends here 1st - just to make sure Im on topic.
[19:02] <Mamarok> hm, my typing is sub-par...
[19:03]  * hypa7ia prefers keeping her own logs and not having her every word google-indexed
[19:03] <Pendulum> hypa7ia: I can't log while at work
[19:03]  * MarkDude thinks he is not the only one slightly confused here.
[19:03] <Mamarok> Pendulum: you can use a bouncer from home
[19:03]  * AlanBell thinks MarkDude is right
[19:03] <hypa7ia> Pendulum: why not leave your client on at home, or use a bouncer, etc etc
[19:03]  * hypa7ia is also confused as she thought this crap was mostly sorted after the vote
[19:04] <hypa7ia> like seriously, can we move on to doing actual work?
[19:04] <Mamarok> good idea
[19:05] <MarkDude> How about that we just tell people that have been here for a while to move to other channels (if needed). New-users we give MORE wiggle room, and teach folks slowly?
[19:06] <MarkDude> :)
[19:06] <MarkDude> And focus on mentoring  & banning trolls
[19:06] <hypa7ia> Pendulum: i've been using irssi in screen for years and would be happy to help you get it set up if you'd like
[19:06]  * AlanBell sees zero trolls in the logged channel
[19:07] <Mamarok> AlanBell: only be cause it is new
[19:07]  * hypa7ia notes that the logged channel has been around for how many weeks?
[19:07] <akgraner> I think there will be some confusion and frustration while it all gets ironed out.. I think people need to be aware of how they ask/discourage people from the social chatter and I think this is def something that can be worked out
[19:07] <AlanBell> Mamarok: yeah, it will be interesting to see how that situation develops over time
[19:07] <Mamarok> once it will be on the wiki they will flock in
[19:08] <Mamarok> + long enough on the wiki
[19:08] <AlanBell> good, I think trolls should land in logged channels as a general rule
[19:08]  * hypa7ia will happily keep banning the trolls and creeps wherever they end up
[19:08] <Mamarok> AlanBell: it will not prevent them from landing in the other one first, though
[19:09] <akgraner> I don't think we need to poll everyone about social chatter in here as we stated during the other discussions that some social chatter will happen.. and we need to just be aware and guide the correct conversation
[19:09] <hypa7ia> AlanBell: exactly
[19:09] <hypa7ia> err that was directed at akgraner :)
[19:09] <akgraner> :-)
[19:09] <AlanBell> guiding the conversation and leading my example seem to be appropriate ways to deal with this topic
[19:10] <hypa7ia> anyway, i'm personally committing to keep my social chat in #u-w
[19:10] <AlanBell> s/my/by
[19:10] <Mamarok> ditto
[19:10] <hypa7ia> as i don't like talking about personal stuff in logged channels - it makes me deeply uncomfortable.
[19:10] <hypa7ia> i don't care if people log privately, it's the google-indexing that bothers me
[19:12] <hypa7ia> so, how about that mentoring project? :)
[19:12] <akgraner> I know there are some people who only log in here...but I think we can sorta figure it out as we go - or at least we ought to be
[19:13] <akgraner> svaksha added it  - but I was talking to people at SCaLE who are really interested to see what initiatives we are going to take and what out implementation will be
[19:13] <akgraner> people=women in the greater open source community
[19:14] <Pendulum> One thing I think about the mentoring program is that it's important the mentors are female
[19:14] <Pendulum> last I checked the mentors on the mentorship page were at least half male
[19:14] <Pendulum> and if I were to come to UW for a mentor, I'd do it specifically to find a female mentor
[19:14] <akgraner> Pendulum, I do too, but there is only one core-dev that is female, and I am not sure how many female MOTU's the project has
[19:15] <hypa7ia> those aren't the only things one can be a mentor for, though
[19:15] <Pendulum> yeah
[19:15] <akgraner> no I didn't mean to imply that
[19:15] <Pendulum> I think it's just a matter of starting and expanding
[19:15] <hypa7ia> yeah
[19:16]  * Mamarok should add herself
[19:16] <akgraner> I agree - but didn't want to limit the mentorship b/c there was not enough woman available to mentor
[19:16] <Mamarok> I just will have a few overcharged months ahead, so I can't mentor immediately
[19:16] <akgraner> women even *sigh* I fail at typing today :-(
[19:17] <Pendulum> akgraner: no, I don't think it's worth limiting, but I do think we should focus on getting female mentors
[19:17] <akgraner> Pendulum, definitely
[19:19] <hypa7ia> the other thing with mentoring is that you don't necessarily need to be an expert, you just need to know how to ask the right questions and have some confidence
[19:19] <Pendulum> yeah
[19:19] <hypa7ia> at least that was my experience with GSoC
[19:19] <Pendulum> but mentors are good all over the place
[19:20] <akgraner> so how about we send something to the mailing list and post to the forum that we are looking for women to mentor women and ask for people to sign up and list what areas they are available to mentor in?
[19:20] <akgraner> but that we are not limiting it to only women, but would like to see more women helping women in the community
[19:22] <Pendulum> yes
[19:22] <Pendulum> also we should think outside the "developers, MOTU, bugsquad" box
[19:22] <Pendulum> for example, I think czajkowski has done a lot of (unofficial) mentoring of me in terms of community stuff
[19:22] <Pendulum> (which I have very much appreciated)
[19:22] <czajkowski> heh
[19:22] <czajkowski> ;)
[19:23] <czajkowski> I still wont be adding my ame to the list however.
[19:23] <akgraner> right there are a lot of non-technical things people can mentor people in
[19:23]  * hypa7ia is awesome at generic sysadmin stuff and happy to mentor on that
[19:23] <Pendulum> hypa7ia: I might poke you about that sometime because it's stuff I'd like to learn, but have never really known where/how to start
[19:24] <Pendulum> (really I want to learn everything, but that's probably over ambitious ;) )
[19:24] <hypa7ia> hehe
[19:24] <Pendulum> oh, I'm totally that person who is interested in everything
[19:25] <Pendulum> I once told someone that about my only thing I could think of that I'm not interested in is economics, however, that's not quite true as I used to be involved in some NGO work where I really could have used economics knowledge
[19:26] <hypa7ia> also i think it's worthwhile if you're willing to do a bit of newbie-holding / new user mentoring
[19:27] <hypa7ia> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Mentors
[19:29] <hypa7ia> we could also just add an (optional) gender column to the table
[19:30] <hypa7ia> any objections there?
[19:31] <akgraner> hypa7ia, no objections from me but I think we also need to note why the information is important b/c we will get asked...
[19:35] <Mamarok> indeed. But how to word that?
[19:35]  * hypa7ia will try to come up with something
[19:36]  * Mamarok prefers to leave the wording to native English speakers
[19:37] <hypa7ia> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Mentors
[19:39] <hypa7ia> thoughts?
[19:40] <AlanBell> I like it, and wiktionary confirms that mentees is in fact a real word
[19:41] <hypa7ia> lol
[19:41] <czajkowski> sounds like mental
[19:41] <hypa7ia> perhaps i should clarify that for non-english-native-speakers
[19:41] <hypa7ia> there we go :)
[19:50] <issyl0> Pendulum: how did the meeting go?
[19:51] <Pendulum> issyl0: it's not for another 3 hours
[19:51] <issyl0> Pendulum: hmm... oh!
[19:51]  * issyl0 re-reads the email :)
[19:51] <Pendulum> 6PM EST/ 11PM UTC
[19:51] <hypa7ia> we have a meeting today?
[19:52] <Pendulum> hypa7ia: Americas Membership Board
[19:52]  * Pendulum is going for membership
[19:52] <hypa7ia> ooh!
[19:52] <hypa7ia> ping me!  i'll be there!
[19:52] <Pendulum> I will do my best! if I have not frozen with nerves!
[19:52] <Pendulum> I was fine until about 24 hours ago
[19:52] <Pendulum> and I think between work and the fact that our weather is really bad and stuff I started worrying
[19:53] <Mamarok> hypa7ia: I added a dsicalimer because of my tight schedule in the next few months, is the wording OK?
[19:53] <issyl0> :))
[19:53] <Mamarok> disclaimer*
[19:53] <issyl0> Pendulum: you'll do fineee!
[19:53] <Pendulum> but I am leaving work 30 minutes early so I can be sure to be home (unless something happens badly on the busride) and I just need to stop being me and stop worrying :P
[19:54] <akgraner> I'll look over the stuff the stuff for the wiki page for the IRC channels and add it later tonight.  I need to finish a couple things before the membership meeting tonight...  If you all need me for something ping me as I prob won't be looking at IRC for a while...
[19:54]  * Mamarok should maybe also warn about her dislexia, her typing is quite bad today :(
[19:54] <maco2> what time's the meeting
[19:54] <hypa7ia> Mamarok: fixed a typo, looks great :)
[19:54] <pleia2> maco2: 23:00
[19:54] <Mamarok> hypa7ia: thanks a lot :)
[19:54] <issyl0> I just realised I can't be there, it's too late, but let me know how you get on and I'll catch up with the logs, I idle in #u-meeting anyway :)
[19:54] <Pendulum> pleia2: you will be there, right?
[19:54] <Mamarok> hi maco2 :)
[19:54] <pleia2> Pendulum: yep
[19:54] <Pendulum> issyl0: I'll let you know :)
[19:55] <Pendulum> pleia2: good! hadn't seen you around for a few days so was getting a bit worried there ;)
[19:55] <maco2> pleia2: 2300 est or utc?
[19:55] <pleia2> maco2: utc
[19:55] <Mamarok> 2300 UTC
[19:55] <maco2> so 6pm here-time
[19:55] <Pendulum> yes
[19:56] <pleia2> Pendulum: the move has me pretty overwhelmed, plus coming back to work this week after a week of being off... gah
[19:56] <Mamarok> UTC+1 here, so a bit late, will see if I am still awake enough
[19:56] <pleia2> and worse - I stayed up for a migration last night that the guy didn't show for, so I waited an hour and had to reschedule for tonight
[19:56] <Pendulum> pleia2: I'm sure. I hope stuff calms down (or at least gets back to normal) soon
[19:56] <hypa7ia> 5pm mountain time!
[19:56] <Pendulum> :(
[19:56] <hypa7ia> woo texas
[19:56] <pleia2> Pendulum: thanks :)
[20:00] <AlanBell> texas is mountain?
[20:03] <Mamarok> hm, if you follow the time zone up north there are mountains
[20:11] <Mamarok> hm, the Contacts wiki needs to be updated
[20:12] <Mamarok> maco2: are you really the only forum moderator? wasn't bapouma also a mentor?
[20:13] <Mamarok> s/mentor/moderator/
[20:14] <maco2> Mamarok: yes, she is
[20:14] <maco2> isabella, i think, is her name
[20:14] <Mamarok> Isabelle Duchatelle
[20:15] <AlanBell> http://www.timetemperature.com/tzus/texas_time_zone.shtml only a teeny weeny bit of texas is mountain time
[20:15] <AlanBell> although that bit is probably bigger than the UK
[20:17] <maco2> Riddell asked me to name every country in Europe and was impressed that only missed 3 or so.  i asked him to name every state in the US and he said that's not the same scale at all. i told him our smallest state (Rhode Island) is bigger than their smallest (Vatican), so...GO!
[20:19] <AlanBell> I fail at geography
[20:19] <Pendulum> maco2: it's bigger that several small European countries
[20:19] <Pendulum> *than
[20:21] <Mamarok> ahem... topic?
[20:29]  * hypa7ia actually meant central, not mountain, just to not steer anyone wrong :)
[20:29] <AlanBell> we are now pretty much exactly halfway between UDS-L (held in Texas in Central time) and UDS-M (which will be held in a small European country)
[20:30] <AlanBell> is it time to start thinking about stuff to blueprint for the next cycle?
[20:36] <hypa7ia> probably :)
[20:36]  * hypa7ia wants to go to a small european country :D
[20:36] <czajkowski> Ireland is Very small  :)
[20:36] <czajkowski> but come :D
[20:36] <AlanBell> UDS in the Armarda?
[20:38] <Mamarok> AlanBell: where is UDS-M?
[20:38] <AlanBell> I wish I knew
[20:40] <Pendulum> somewhere in Europe
[20:40] <Mamarok> well, that is obvious, but where would be nice to know
[20:41] <Pendulum> sadly no one seems to know yet :(
[20:41] <Mamarok> though it's unlikely I can attend anyway :(
[20:41] <Mamarok> so let's hope it's not in Switzerland, that would really annoy me
[20:42] <hypa7ia> Mamarok: you're in .ch?
[20:42] <Mamarok> yes
[20:42] <hypa7ia> cool
[20:43] <Mamarok> we are organizing a big developer sprint in May in Switzerland for various KDE projects right now
[20:45] <Mamarok> so if UDS is during that week I can't attend
[20:45] <Daviey> err, the dates have been released
[20:46] <czajkowski> dates are up on summit.ubuntu.com
[20:46] <czajkowski> nbut location isn't just yet
[20:46]  * Mamarok looks
[20:46] <AlanBell> follow the link to the launchpad sprint
[20:47] <Daviey> I would be highly suprised if it's anywhere other than Brussels, Belgium.
[20:47] <Mamarok> Daviey: what makes you think that?
[20:48] <Daviey> Mamarok: lets just make a bet, shall we? :)
[20:48] <Mamarok> Daviey: a nice Belgian beer then :)
[20:49]  * Mamarok tries to attend, if not in person, then remotely
[20:49] <Daviey> Mamarok:  sounds good
[20:50] <Mamarok> Daviey: I just hope I can attend, be it only for a few days, Brussels is only 700 km from my place
[20:51] <jussi01> brussels eh...
[20:51] <Daviey> it'll be odd not flying to a UDS.
[20:51] <Mamarok> jussi01: great beer and good food
[20:51] <Daviey> jussi01: you can join the wager if you like? :)
[20:52] <Mamarok> oh, I will likely fly anyway, 700 km is a day trip and quite exhausting
[20:52] <jussi01> Daviey: Im with you ;)
[20:52] <Mamarok> and I hate to travel by train
[20:52] <jussi01> Mamarok: depends on what speed train you tak e :P
[20:53] <Mamarok> jussi01: well, for me it would be a TGV to Paris and the to Brussels, equaly 7 hours, so I could as well drive there by car
[20:53] <AlanBell> looks like £79 return on the Eurostar
[20:53] <Mamarok> then*
[20:53] <Mamarok> we should have an UDS at the Rolex Learning Center in Lausanne :)
[20:54] <Mamarok> fantastic building, and absolutely appropriate for an UDS
[20:54]  * jussi01 prays for sponsorship
[20:55] <jussi01> I got to run
[20:55] <jussi01> laters
[20:55] <Mamarok> jussi01: I am not sure if I can attend, so I will not go for sponsorship
[21:02] <hypa7ia> what's the story with sponsorship?
[21:03] <Pendulum> it seems that there's a sponsorship app up
[21:03] <czajkowski> it's not been annouced so I'd wait to apply
[21:03] <czajkowski> then if you want to apply
[21:03] <czajkowski> you just basically tell them your role and stuff you do for Ubuntu
[21:07] <AlanBell> does that all go in the about yourself box or will there be more stuff on the following page(s) to say what you want to get out of UDS?
[21:08] <czajkowski> in that box, some folks write it elsewhere and attach link there
[21:08] <czajkowski> but folks
[21:08] <czajkowski> we're getting ahead of ourselves
[21:08] <czajkowski> it's not been announced yet
[21:09] <AlanBell> indeed
[21:09] <hypa7ia> meh, nothing wrong with getting a head start, is there?
[21:09] <czajkowski> true
[21:09] <Pendulum> nothing wrong with thinking about it and thinking about what to say
[21:10]  * Pendulum just needs to get through tonight first, though
[21:10] <czajkowski> basically you want to give them reason to have you there and what you will bring to Ubutnu for the next cycle
[21:10] <czajkowski> Pendulum: brown paper bag at hand
[21:10] <Pendulum> no
[21:10] <Pendulum> still 20 minutes in the office left
[21:10] <Pendulum> least productive day ever
[21:10] <czajkowski> heh
[21:10] <czajkowski> yer bonkers
[21:10] <Pendulum> especially in terms of other people actually thinking I'm getting things done
[21:10] <Pendulum> (which they do)
[21:11] <czajkowski> so I poked popele today on the mailing list re Pendulum application and time
[21:11] <czajkowski> I see it as a way to help people have friendly folks on sstandby during the meeting
[21:11] <czajkowski> issyl0: is now thinking of going for membership
[21:11] <czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/issyl0  if folks would like to give her pointers on her wiki page
[21:12] <czajkowski> or leave testiminals once she's gotten feedback I'm sure she'd appreciate it
[21:12] <akgraner> For the mentoring page - what order are the names in?  or does it matter?
[21:13] <hypa7ia> akgraner: they should probably be in alphabetical by first or lastname?
[21:13] <hypa7ia> but it doesn't terribly matter
[21:14] <akgraner> hypa7ia, I was going to add me in the mix but didn't know if there was a protocol I wasn't seeing just wanted to ask :-)
[21:17] <hypa7ia> akgraner: i was operating on the JFDI principle
[21:17] <hypa7ia> just frakkin do it :)
[21:18] <akgraner> hehe - I think I do that most of the time - but every once in a while I stop and ask :)
[21:25] <akgraner> good grief saving a wiki today is S-L-O-W  :-/
[21:40] <czajkowski> Nearly there FINALLY http://pix.ie/czajkowski/1526926/size/800  all the emails I've left to reply to
[21:42] <elky> re: stories. They'll be up by the weekend. Having to hand-code something for voting on them since we want more than the usual 25 reponses for surveymonkey, and survey packages on sourceforge suck majorly
[21:42] <elky> i had internetfail last night courtesy of routerfail
[21:43] <elky> It reboots itself if I put normal load on it. Not so useful.
[21:44] <james_w> Daviey: I'll take that bet ;-)
[21:45] <Mamarok> james_w: do you have other information we don't know of?
[21:45] <james_w> I'm just messing with you
[21:46] <james_w> trying to throw confusion in to the mix
[21:49] <AlanBell> #startmeeting
[21:49] <Mootbot-UK> Meeting started at 21:49. The chair is AlanBell.
[21:49] <Mootbot-UK> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [PROGRESS REPORT], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[21:49] <AlanBell> #endmeeting
[21:49] <Mootbot-UK> Meeting finished at 21:49.
[22:24] <Daviey> james_w: heh
[23:08] <czajkowski> Pendulum: is ups shortly in #ubuntu-meeting for her membership folks
[23:11] <czajkowski> pen is up now
[23:21] <czajkowski> Congrats to pendulum on her ubuntu membership
[23:23] <czajkowski> Pendulum: welcome and congrats
[23:23] <Pendulum> thank you!
[23:23] <Pendulum> sorry, I was trying to figure out why people were talking to me about Ubuntu Membership in -women and then realised I hadn't gotten in this channel yet
[23:25] <czajkowski> heh
[23:25] <Mamarok> OK, bed time for me now, good night everyone :)
[23:26] <akgraner> Mamarok, night
[23:29] <Pendulum> fyi, folks rww is now up for membership at the meeting
[23:43] <popey> who?!
[23:43] <popey> (kidding)
[23:44] <Pendulum> popey: thank you :)
[23:44] <popey> :) congrats
[23:44] <Pendulum> can anyone in here answer the "who do I talk to about my cloak" question?
[23:44] <popey> #ubuntu-irc
[23:44] <Pendulum> (since I seem to have already been added to the launchpad)