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NafaiGood morning!14:06
seb128hi Nafai14:07
NafaiHey seb128, how's it?14:07
Nafaipretty good, finally getting back to my normal morning routine, had a hard time getting up there for a while :)14:09
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jcastroNafai: it's nice to see the bluetooth icon in the right place!14:17
jcastrompt: on the staggered icons and whatnot, for example the bluetooth one looks just plain odd14:18
jcastroshould we just remove the icons from the menu?14:18
jcastroand like, on g-p-m having the battery icon in the menu doesn't make sense either14:18
mptjcastro, screenshot? I don't have a bluetooth card14:19
seb128jcastro, I think it's a ted bug?14:22
seb128jcastro, the appindicator menus don't respect the show_icon flag correctly14:23
seb128or always display those for stock items or something14:23
seb128like rhythmbox next, previous, exit14:23
seb128the preferences one is probably similar14:23
NafaiThat's what I've seen14:24
jcastroI just think they look unprofessional14:24
mptjcastro, yeah, neither of those icons should be there14:24
NafaiIs there something  I need to do in the code?14:25
NafaiOr is this a library issue?14:25
seb128I think it's a lib issue14:25
seb128check with ted when he's there14:25
jcastroNafai: if it's relatively easy I think we should do it14:26
jcastroI mean, that arrow(!) is just dumb14:26
jcastro"Send files to device, and here's an arrow pointing to some whitespace."14:27
jcastrompt: I assume you feel the same way about the extra battery icon in g-p-m?14:28
mptjcastro, oh, was g-p-m ported?14:28
mptI thought that was an incomplete implementation of the power menu...14:29
jcastrono, we don't have a power menu14:29
mptbbiab (30 min), in a user testing session right now14:29
seb128mpt, I told you about that the other day but you probably missed the comment ;-)14:30
Nafaijcastro: I'd have to do some special casing with some #ifdef's in the main bluetooth-applet code where the menus are built, but I could do it there14:31
seb128what are you talking about?14:31
Nafairemoving the icons from the bluetooth application indicator14:32
seb128didn't we just say that having those is a lib bug?14:32
jcastroseb128: ok so you are saying he can just turn icons off in one place?14:33
jcastroalso, there doesn't seem to be enough space after a checkbox14:33
seb128well I say they are handled as any other menu icon14:33
seb128they respect the don't show icon flag or should14:33
jcastroNafai: ok so for Vino pitti wants an upstream review, so I guess all you need to do there is attach it the gnome bug?15:17
ubot4Gnome bug 606419 in Java Client "Support for application-indicators/StatusNotifierIcon" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]15:17
jcastroNafai: that leaves brasero: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/brasero/+bug/49785315:18
ubot4Launchpad bug 497853 in brasero (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "Support application indicators (affects: 1)" [Wishlist,Fix committed]15:18
NafaiYup, I'm almost done with that one15:18
jcastroI think we should have assigned that one to the desktop team?15:18
NafaiThat patch isn't final15:18
jcastroI think we assigned that one when we were still just assigning them to ken15:18
NafaiYeah, as soon as I get the final patch, I'll assign it to the team15:18
NafaiAnd I need to pass the gnome-bt patch upstream today as well15:19
* jcastro nods15:19
jcastrodo you think we can get both done today?15:19
NafaiYeah, definitely15:19
jcastrotedg: got time to talk about this icon staggering bits in the app indicators?15:22
tedgjcastro: Sure, not too much to talk about.15:22
jcastroso like check this out: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/5720/weird-bt.png15:23
jcastrocan't we just shut off all the icons?15:23
tedgjcastro: Sure, that's in the gnome-bt patch though.15:25
NafaiWhat do I need to do there?15:25
tedgNafai: Just remove the icons from the menu items.15:25
NafaiSo currently, some of them are set via properties in a .ui file.  Should I just set the icon-name property at runtime to "" ?15:27
jcastrotedg: also, is it me or is there not enough space between the checkbox and the text?15:28
Nafaijcastro: I'll add that to my list for today too :)15:29
jcastrojpetersen: I think we should remove the extra battery icon from the g-p-m dropdown too15:30
jpetersenjcastro, yes ok15:30
jcastrotedg: when the icons get removed the text looks properly justified right?15:30
tedgNafai: Yes, just remove the property.  No need to set it to "".15:32
tedgjcastro: Yes.15:32
jcastrotedg: dumb question - why not just have the thing not draw icons?15:32
jcastroI mean, I know it's one of the supported things15:32
jcastrobut gnome is removing icons from menus anyway ...15:33
tedgjcastro: No, they're not.  They're only using them in specific cases.  And we need to support those cases.15:33
tedgjcastro: Look at something like the Me Menu.  The status icons look really nice there :)15:33
jcastroI am not worries about the me-menu, I know that will look good15:34
jcastroI am concerned for a 3rd party developer who doesn't know the nuances and gets stagger-city15:34
Nafai perhaps a parameter to app_indicator_new of whether or not to use icons?15:35
tedgjcastro: In my experience, limiting it will not produce better applications.  Teaching is all that will produce better applications.15:36
jcastrofair enough15:36
tedgjcastro: You should blog about it.  We've already got the academic explanation from mpt, perhaps something from someone who only cares about staggered menus looking bad would explain it to a different set of people in a way that they'd understand.15:37
jcastrotedg: good idea. Can we have a quick call after lunch? I need you to explain the whole thing to me so I can understand it better15:37
jcastrowe'll go over some talking points, etc. ?15:37
tedgjcastro: Uhm, okay.  I'm running around Dallas today.  Are you busy now?15:38
mptjcastro I could talk with you about that if ted's busy15:38
jcastroif we could talk now that would work for me15:38
tedgdavidbarth: Are you using your conference line?  Could jcastro, mpt and I use it if not?15:39
mptjcastro, unfortunately I'm tied up in the hackfest sum-up for the next half hour or so15:40
jcastrook I'll bother ted15:40
tedgmpt: In 50 minutes?  Half past the hour?15:40
mpttedg, 20% probability15:41
tedgmpt: Haven't you guys talked enough? ;)15:41
mpttedg, we're going to be subjected to a presentation of this stuff: http://blogs.gnome.org/seth/2010/02/26/let-the-wild-rumpus-begin/15:41
tedgmpt: Ah, nice.  I think users believe they needed more "poopers" in their computer.15:43
* tedg has always thought we had too few15:43
artirmpt: were you at the UX meeting?15:44
mptartir, yes, it's winding up now15:45
artirthe planned design changes to the desktop are covered by the post or there are even more?15:46
artirbecause he promised yesterday that the design would be awesome^cool and what he posted today isn't that great15:47
sanderqdartir: i think this is still 'only' one proposal, inspired by the problems discussed (but i wasn't there)15:50
artirI'll wait for more summaries to be posted15:51
artirbecause he was really really excited about the designs shown there15:51
artirGNOME team's ideas to improve window management and desktop control "may amount to a bigger improvement in deep interactions with the UI than any desktop OS in the last decade can boast."15:51
artirhe claimed THAT15:51
artirand i went O_O what can be that great?15:52
sanderqdisn't that related to the current gnome-shell design? that has some new interaction stuff15:52
artirgshell is nice15:52
artirit still need polish but it works15:52
Nafaijcastro: Just to verify, priorities for today: fixing icons on gnome-bt, pushing it upstream for review, pushing vino patch upstream for review, finishing brasero patch and attaching to launchpad bug, and last, finishing with rodrigo's requested changes for gnome control center and pushing to github15:57
jcastroNafai: vino, brasero, gnome-bt, gnome-cc in that order16:02
jcastrothe last 2 are already in the distro so the icon thing is just a fix16:02
jcastroI am more concerned about getting the first 2 in the distro16:02
jcastrompt: ok so Ted just explained to me a bunch of stuff, however we should talk today when you're done with the UX sprint so that I am clear on how we want to communicate these parts.16:03
jcastrojpetersen: should I file a bug about removing that battery icon or are you just going to TODO it?16:04
jpetersenjcastro, you can file a bug so I have something to attach the patch too :)16:05
jcastroah, good idea16:05
Nafaijcastro: cool, thanks16:06
jcastroNafai: I'll file a bt bug too16:09
davidbarthtedg: i'm done with the call, you can use it sure16:16
tedgdavidbarth: Ah, cool.  I just called jcastro already.  We're good.  Thanks!16:17
jcastrotedg: we wanted the quit icon gone from RB too right?16:19
tedgjcastro: yes.16:19
jpetersenjcastro, what is with the previous/next icons in rhythmbox?16:24
jcastrokeep those16:24
jcastrojpetersen: when I talk to mpt later I'll find out what to do about those, but that will likely be past end-of-day for you16:26
jpetersenjcastro, ok :)16:26
mptjcastro, I really think it's not a good situation that we have gnome-power-manager ported, without tooltip, and the power menu not implemented17:01
mptjcastro, because the g-p-m tooltip is (was) the only thing that says the most important information, how many hours/minutes you have left17:02
jcastrompt: I don't really make the determination on what gets ported or not17:05
jcastrompt: I don't know who makes that decision17:05
mptok, I'll see if I can find out17:08
seb128mpt, can we have this information in the menu as label?17:11
mptseb128, yep, that's what I specced for https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerStatusMenu#Design17:12
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seb128mpt, should be easy to do17:13
jcastroseb128: so just a label or all the "X (estimating)" entries?17:15
seb128jcastro, I'm not a designer but I would say that should work17:15
jcastrojpetersen: on that design page how much work would it be to implement the label things under "Items"?17:16
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seb128tedg, how come menus are empty if you don't gtk_show them now17:49
seb128tedg, is that a bug on your side?17:50
jcastroNafai: how are they coming along?17:53
tedgseb128: I don't think so... I think it's just that we're looking for visibility now.17:55
tedgseb128: We need that, otherwise you gtk_widget_hide them.17:55
tedgseb128: Though, I'd agree that hide by default sucks.  I don't like that in GTK.17:56
seb128tedg, well it's different from notification area icon17:56
seb128like the nautilus patch is minor change17:56
seb128it worked17:56
tedgOh, because the menus are shown on click.17:56
seb128and now the menu is empty17:56
seb128I will need to add a gtk_show17:56
seb128which is not that in the notification area code version17:56
tedgWell, it is, you just don't see it as it's in popup.17:57
Nafaijcastro: Not bad.17:58
NafaiI saw the bug you assigned to me17:58
seb128tedg, I think I'm trying to argue that you should do the show for us :p18:05
seb128tedg, ie that default should be visible18:05
tedgseb128: Hmm, I don't have an issue in theory.  But, I'm worried that it'd be different that "standard GTK" which worries me.18:06
* tedg is so worried he mentioned it twice to mess up his sentence...18:07
Nafaijcastro: As far as the upstream vino bug goes, it needs to be changed to the "server" component18:07
seb128tedg, ok, let me do the gtk_show change then, will be easier for now18:07
jcastroah, do you have perms to do that or should I?18:07
jpetersenjcastro, the labels should not be too much work, the information is already present, just need to be formatted correctly18:09
NafaiYes, it doesn't seem like I have perms: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=60641918:09
ubot4Gnome bug 606419 in Java Client "Support for application-indicators/StatusNotifierIcon" [Enhancement,Unconfirmed]18:09
magciusit looks like UNR EFL uses a Cairo backend for Evas, is that right?18:11
jpetersenjcastro, I oculd do it on monday18:14
jcastrompt: seb128: what do you guys think? We could just add the labels18:15
seb128jcastro, I'm not a designer but +118:15
qensehello everyone!18:16
jcastrohi qense!18:16
jpetersenjcastro, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerStatusMenu#Design shows the menu items with icons. Should we have icons or not?18:18
jcastrojpetersen: let's see what mpt says.18:19
jcastrojpetersen: I am not sure if we are supposed to modify g-p-m to look like this or if someone is supposed to write a new thing like we did for the sound and me menus18:19
jpetersenjcastro, I do not see a reason why to not modify g-p-m18:20
jcastrohmm, he's gone for the weekend.18:21
jcastrojpetersen: on monday do the text labels and I guess we'll ask about the icons18:21
jcastro"A total of 97 icons are needed, though 33 of these may be covered by only three distinct graphics (leaving a total of 67), and 60 others consist of 30 pairs that differ only in coloring.18:21
jpetersenjcastro, it seems to be less work to adapt the design of the g-p-m application indicator than to write it from scratch18:21
jcastroI am willing to bet that they don't have 97 icons.18:22
jcastro(the art team)18:22
jpetersenjcastro, ok18:23
jpetersensounds good18:23
Nafaijcastro: Check out my text along with my patch on the gnome bug for vino and let me know what you think18:23
jcastroNafai: ok, let's see what Jonh says!18:25
jcastrotext looks good18:25
qenseI think I've almost sorted the Mono bindings for AppInd out, when they work properly it all depends on Banshee how quicly I can get a patch that is acceptable by upstream.18:29
Nafaiqense: YAY!18:29
qensedon't cheer too early! ;)18:29
qenseI had to learn GAPI first before I could find out what was wrong with the generation of the bindings, but thanks to the wonderful people in #mono and #monodev they now work better than ever. I wrote most of the code for Banshee already, but I threw away some of the old code that didn't work with the (somewhat) broken bindings but what is now the best approach.18:33
qenseit turned out that all my work on getting the signals to work wasn't necessary for Banshee after all18:33
qenseI'm learning a lot here. :)18:38
jcastroNafai: ok so you're on brasero now right?18:44
qenseArgh. The latest Banshee depends on Taglib, which isn't even shipped in Debian unstable yet.19:03
jpetersenhave a nice weekend :)19:05
jcastroNafai: hey are your rhythmbox next/prev dropdowns grayed out?19:53
jcastroI thought we fixed that19:53
NafaiLet me check19:53
NafaiYeah, they are grayed out19:53
seb128jcastro, are you playing?19:54
seb128jcastro, works there19:54
seb128jcastro, did you restart your session today?19:55
seb128jcastro, it has been fixed yesterday night19:55
NafaiYeah, I haven't restarted my session yet19:55
seb128you can restart the service and applet too19:56
qensetedg: I know what's bringing the Mono bindings into problems: the status and category are assigned using their nick and not their type value. Mono expects their value to be their type, but they aren't. That's what causing all the problems.20:59
qenseWhy did you chose to use the nicks?21:00
qenseor, at least the category is doing that21:00
qensethe gobject property of the category21:01
qensewhich is the most important thing for the Mono bindings21:01
qensethings like           enum_value = g_enum_get_value ((GEnumClass *) g_type_class_ref (APP_INDICATOR_TYPE_INDICATOR_CATEGORY), priv->category);21:02
qense          g_value_set_string (value, enum_value->value_nick);21:02
qensethey're really annoying for the bindings, actually21:02
qenseah, tedg isn't here21:04
qenseDBO: Did you write the initial Mono bindings for AppInd?21:04
DBOqense, initially yeah21:04
DBOhave not had time to touch or update them since then21:05
DBOkind of sad really21:05
qenseDBO: I'm working on getting them into shape right now and ran into a problem in the way the C libraryw as designed.21:05
qenseDBO: Did you read my rant above?21:05
DBOgive me the short short version21:05
qenseok :)21:05
qenseEverything would be working perfectly if they would have stored the status and the category as AppIndicatorStatus and AppIndicatorCategory, but they are stored as const gchar *, mostly generated from their nick.21:06
kklimondahmm.. can I set an IM status using me menu?21:06
kklimondaor is it only for gwibber?21:06
qensekklimonda: IM and Gwibber21:06
qenseand Ubuntu One21:06
qenseDBO: Rewriting it to let the library use the proper type would be the best, but I'm not sure if that's acceptable by them. I don't know the reason behind using a const gchar *21:07
kklimondaqense: but does the text entry that is present in the me menu sets both IM status and gwibber one?21:07
qensekklimonda: the text field is for sending something to your social services.21:08
qenseSo, Gwibber21:08
kklimondathen it is confusing as it's over the status icons :/21:08
DBOqense, I'll talk to ted21:08
qenseDBO: my AppInd integration for Banshee is stalled by it :)21:09
qensenot that I want to put pressure on you...21:09
qenseDBO: thanks21:09
DBOno its okay if you want to put pressure on me21:09
DBOi would only be upset if you wanted to put undue pressure on me21:09
qenseI would say it is a bit due, Banshee 1.6.0 will be released on march 31th, but I would like to get it into 1.5.5, due at 10 March, so it can get some proper testing21:12
qenseDBO: Can you send custom types through DBus? That could be the reason since e.g. the nick string of the status is converted back to an AppIndicatorStatus type by the indicator-application service.21:18
DBOyou can send standard types and structs of standard types21:19
DBOeverything gets converted into and out of that21:19
qenseDBO: I'll try to push a branch that works without those variables converted to strings.21:30

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