[15:09] <dpm> cjohnston, sorry for the late notice, but would you mind delaying the meeting in ~1h by 30 mins?
[15:27] <cjohnston> dpm: to what time please?
[15:28] <dpm> cjohnston,  16:30 UTC (just 30 mins delayed)
[15:29] <cjohnston> I thought we already had delayed it to 1630 for newz2000
[15:29] <dpm> cjohnston, ah, that's fine then, you already talked :)
[15:29] <cjohnston> yup
[15:29] <cjohnston> :-)
[15:29] <dpm> ok, yeah, that was it, then :)
[15:30] <cjohnston> okie.. see ya in an hour
[15:30] <dpm> yep
[16:21] <cjohnston> I'm here, whenever you two are ready.. :-)
[16:21] <cjohnston> No rush
[16:25] <newz2000> hi, will be ready in 5 min or less
[16:30] <dpm> ok, I'm all set
[16:31] <dpm> cjohnston, newz2000: so, on the last meeting we were saying that cjohnston would be the driver for this project, and that we'd need a spec for understanding what's involved, discussion and coordinating the work
[16:31] <dpm> cjohnston, I see you've created a blueprint and added some actions at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website/+spec/website-localization/, thanks a lot for that.
[16:31] <newz2000> ok, I'm ready
[16:32] <cjohnston> :-)
[16:32] <cjohnston> first time making a spec, so i hope its decient
[16:33] <dpm> sure, I hope you had fun with blueprints in LP :)
[16:33] <cjohnston> I've done another one now too.. And that project is going quite well..:-)
[16:33] <dpm> However, there is still one pending item we talked about: having a spec in the wiki linked to the blueprint, following (more or less) the template at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SpecTemplate
[16:34] <dpm> The same thing we do at UDSs when we flesh out the roadmaps for each team.
[16:34] <dpm> Here's an example:
[16:34] <dpm> Blueprint: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/lucid-qa-community-testing-translations
[16:34] <dpm> Spec: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/TestingForTranslations
[16:35] <dpm> We could reuse the existing page at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebsiteLocalization/Roadmap, but it might need to be expanded a bit
[16:35] <cjohnston> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebsiteLocalization/Spec
[16:36] <dpm> cjohnston, ah, I mixed up the pages... great, there is a spec in the wiki as well :)
[16:36]  * newz2000 had not seen that yet
[16:36] <cjohnston> I added the spec to the blueprint
[16:36] <newz2000> that looks like a fair summary
[16:37] <dpm> cjohnston, ah, you've just linked it now. I read the blueprint this morning and I coldn't see it. Great, that looks good
[16:37] <cjohnston> ty
[16:37] <cjohnston> Didn't know about linking it.. hehe
[16:37] <cjohnston> The spec I do believe was in the email though. :-)
[16:38] <dpm> yeah, I went straight to the blueprint, though
[16:38] <cjohnston> lol
[16:38] <cjohnston> All good
[16:38] <dpm> ok, that's what we need to get the ball rolling
[16:39] <newz2000> dpm: you mentioned a concern about burdening some of the people who will be working on this
[16:39] <newz2000> (during a normally busy period of time)
[16:39] <dpm> yeah, we're aproaching Lucid
[16:39] <dpm> and people is getting more and more busy
[16:40] <cjohnston> I have a question.. Do we want to put this on the M cycle then?
[16:40] <cjohnston> Use UDS as a launching point? I don't know if newz2000 is ok with this
[16:40] <newz2000> I'm OK w/ it but:
[16:41] <newz2000> a: I don't know that all people who will particpate will be at UDS, so we may use it as a milestone, not a locastion
[16:41] <newz2000> b: I think we have untapped technical potential that is not tied up w/ Lucid launch
[16:41] <newz2000> (so we may be able to start earlier on that side if we want)
[16:42] <newz2000> (that's it)
[16:42] <cjohnston> I am up for whatever...
[16:42] <dpm> I think we can start with an announcement, and see how it goes, but simply not commit with Lucid from the start
[16:42] <newz2000> yeah, I'm totally in favour of that
[16:42] <newz2000> cjohnston: didn't you suggest targeting May?
[16:43] <dpm> newz2000, where do you think we can coordinate this? would the ubuntu-website mailing list be a good place?
[16:43] <newz2000> I think that would be excellent
[16:43] <cjohnston> That was my thought, that way people can still focus on Lucid.. I don't know how much work this is going to be, and the possibility of taking away from Lucid
[16:44] <newz2000> Does it make sense to deliver the technical implemetnation first and then do the tranlsations as step 2?
[16:44] <cjohnston> IMO, without the translations, there is no need for technical implementation
[16:44] <newz2000> ok
[16:45] <cjohnston> but thats just my opinion
[16:45] <newz2000> you're leading this. :-)
[16:46] <dpm> cjohnston, there is some work to do in setting up a project in LP and exposing the translations, but I think it should not be much of a problem
[16:46] <cjohnston> you two both have more experience though... So if you recommend something, its more than anything I have to go off of.
[16:46] <newz2000> Let me ask you a question...
[16:47] <newz2000> if we have only one or two languages but otherwise it's working, do you think it will be good enough to launch?
[16:47] <cjohnston> Yes.
[16:47] <newz2000> (and add translations as they come on)
[16:47] <newz2000> The implication is that it needs to work first and foremost, and have at least one or two translations
[16:47] <dpm> newz2000, yes, but I'm pretty certain that when the technical implementation is working, we'll get lots more of just two :)
[16:48] <dpm> lots more of just than 2 translations, I meant
[16:48] <cjohnston> Right.. I think we need some sort of translations as a start... Then implement it.. and get the word out..
[16:48] <newz2000> right, my point is that the technical part may be more critical
[16:48] <cjohnston> and then get more tanslations
[16:48] <cjohnston> I see what your saying
[16:48] <dpm> I agree with newz2000, the implementation is what's most important here
[16:49] <cjohnston> Okie then...
[16:49] <dpm> I can provide a couple of translations for testing, that wouldn't be a problem
[16:49] <cjohnston> Ok..
[16:50] <newz2000> ok, that's cool
[16:50] <dpm> and I'm sure other Ubuntu translators will as well
[16:50] <newz2000> Even partial translations can be used for testing
[16:50] <cjohnston> Technically: This page is the X language can be used for testing
[16:50] <newz2000> true
[16:51] <newz2000> So before translations can start there needs to be a source to translate from
[16:51] <cjohnston> Plus that would allowe me to see it works right.. lol
[16:51] <cjohnston> Correct.
[16:51] <newz2000> what was decided regarding ES where there are many loco teams and a variety of resources?
[16:52] <cjohnston> I don't remember there being any specific decisions..
[16:52] <newz2000> Do we create one ES page that lists all the resources?
[16:52] <cjohnston> I remember what you and I had talked about was trying to get as many as possible.... and then if there is none specific to what the user has default fall back on the default es
[16:52] <dpm> newz2000, we can put it in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Website/WebsiteLocalization/Spec#Unresolved Issues, we'd need more input from LoCos for that
[16:52] <newz2000> ok.
[16:52] <newz2000> cjohnston: would you do that?
[16:53] <newz2000> My question about it is:
[16:53] <cjohnston> yup
[16:53] <newz2000> if we choose to have es-mx and mx has few resources, would it be better to show them all of es?
[16:54] <cjohnston> hmm
[16:54] <dpm> Some big teams have got a central
[16:54] <dpm> coordination forum or mailing list
[16:54] <dpm> so perhaps they could be directed to that
[16:54] <cjohnston> But then the other issue, es-mx and es-something else, the same word has two different meanings
[16:55] <newz2000> right. How bad is this? Can it be avoided using careful wording?
[16:55] <cjohnston> I don't know..
[16:55]  * newz2000 doesn't expect you to know, just a question
[16:55] <cjohnston> I know I run into the issue with my line of work
[16:55] <cjohnston> and thats why I bring it up
[16:55] <dpm> newz2000, it can be avoided using the standard variant of the language
[16:56] <newz2000> ok, that's good
[16:56] <newz2000> So we need to identify what languages this could be problematic for
[16:56] <dpm> The Spanish translation team uses the same variant for all countries/regions.
[16:56] <newz2000> I know Spanish and English both need to address it
[16:56] <dpm> -> another action for the spec
[16:56] <newz2000> (and yes, i'm suggesting there be an EN translation too :-) )
[16:56] <cjohnston> then that would probably be bestoh no
[16:56] <cjohnston> lol
[16:57] <dpm> yeah, en_GB
[16:57] <cjohnston> umm
[16:57] <cjohnston> dunno what I was saying
[16:57] <newz2000> btw, my reasoning for there being an EN translation is so that this script can be used by the loco teams that don't speak English
[16:57] <dpm> ok
[16:58] <newz2000> so what are the next action items?
[16:58] <dpm> I must go in a few minutes, shall we wrap up with a summary of what we've discussed? Otherwise, you two can continue after me, I'll read the logs
[16:59] <cjohnston> I'm adding the Unresolved Issue of how to handle languages with multiple LoCo teams...
[16:59] <newz2000> also what languages need to deal w/ multiple locale dialects (or whatever the proper name for taht is)
[16:59] <cjohnston> Need to create an LP project.
[16:59] <newz2000> we need to create a source document
[17:00] <cjohnston> Use the website ML for communication
[17:01] <newz2000> I will submit a visual mock-up for what I see the end result looking like
[17:01] <cjohnston> Create a LP project
[17:01] <cjohnston> I think that's about it?
[17:01] <dpm> newz2000, I think that would be a great help
[17:01] <dpm> the visual mock-up
[17:02] <newz2000> also decide on the final URL structure for translated docs
[17:02] <newz2000> (that needs to be done)
[17:02] <cjohnston> Yup.
[17:03] <dpm> another item for unresolved issues (or pending discussion)
[17:03] <dpm> we can start with regular meetings as well, what do you think?
[17:04] <cjohnston> I'm fine with that.
[17:04] <newz2000> when will the next meeting be? Same time (as originally scheduled)?
[17:05] <dpm> biweekly meetings would be fine for you guys?
[17:05] <cjohnston> In two weeks I will be on a beach with a beer in my hand
[17:05] <cjohnston> ;-)
[17:05] <cjohnston> And my wife would kill me if I got online for a meeting
[17:06] <dpm> no worries
[17:06] <cjohnston> Ooo.. I could talk to some poeple about es_MX tho
[17:06] <cjohnston> lol
[17:06] <newz2000> :-) Lets meet next week to discuss the technical bits. dpm need not attend I think.
[17:07] <newz2000> Actually, cjohnston: lets aim for Thursday
[17:07] <cjohnston> newz2000: I'm open.. Your call
[17:07] <newz2000> cjohnston: ok. before lunch or after?
[17:07] <cjohnston> Doesn't matter
[17:07] <dpm> newz2000, sounds good to me. I can be there if I've got time, but I'm also fine with skipping if you don't need me on that one
[17:08] <cjohnston> dpm: we always need you.. ;-)
[17:08] <dpm> :)
[17:08] <cjohnston> lol
[17:08] <newz2000> cjohnston: either 11:30 your time or 3:00 your time?
[17:08] <dpm> ok, I really need to go now. Is everyone clear with the plan before the next meeting, then?
[17:08] <cjohnston> Yup.. Thanks dpm !
[17:08] <newz2000> dpm: yep, thanks a bunch
[17:08] <cjohnston> 1130 newz2000
[17:09] <newz2000> ok, got it on my calendar
[17:09] <dpm> no worries
[17:09] <dpm> have a great weekend!
[17:09] <cjohnston> You too dpm !!
[17:10] <newz2000> great. It sounds like we're a little close to action.
[17:10] <newz2000> I'm working on a screenshot now
[17:10] <cjohnston> Cool..
[17:10] <cjohnston> newz2000: so should I take and create a seperate LP project from the ubuntu-website project then?
[17:11]  * newz2000 ponders
[17:11] <newz2000> I'm not sure
[17:11] <newz2000> Yeah, maybe
[17:11] <newz2000> to avoid intermingling bugs
[17:11] <cjohnston> ok
[17:12] <cjohnston> website-localization too long?
[17:15] <newz2000> cjohnston: no, I don't think so
[17:16] <cjohnston> ok
[17:17] <cjohnston> https://edge.launchpad.net/website-localization
[17:18] <newz2000> cool. I'll upload my graphic to the wiki, but first I must catch the IS team before they leave for the day
[17:19] <cjohnston> yup
[17:19] <cjohnston> I'm about to take off.. We can catch up later if your still around
[17:20] <newz2000> ok, sounds good
[22:02] <cjohnston> howdy