AlanBellnice cloak Pendulum!06:52
dholbachgood morning08:17
PendulumAlanBell: thanks :)10:45
AlanBellthere are now 558 Ubuntu Members10:51
AlanBell25 of which are women10:53
AlanBellalthough I did think we were up to 26 now, so I will have to check that10:53
czajkowskiis that all :(10:53
AlanBellthe overall percentage hasn't changed much since UDS-M10:54
czajkowskiwell it won't really I guess as many more men go for membership then women10:55
rwwAlanBell: I assume you mean UDS-L?10:56
Pendulumyeah :-/10:56
nigelbrww: congrats :)10:57
rwwthanks :)10:57
* nigelb is preparing wiki10:57
nigelbI realized I've done quite a bit which hasn't gone into the wiki10:58
Pendulumnigelb: I started my wiki early so that when I decided to go for membership it wouldn't need any work (this also made things like my wiki page for UW leader easier) and pretty much just listed out everything I'd done10:58
Pendulumthen thought about things and listed out some more10:58
czajkowskithat and me nagging10:58
czajkowskiworks wonders10:58
nigelbPendulum: its just that after user days I really didn't update my wiki10:59
Pendulumalso, feel free to pick up the wiki formatting of someone who has already gone for membership (successfully)10:59
PendulumI picked up czajkowski's10:59
nigelbI picked up joeb's wiki ;)11:00
czajkowskihaving the wiki laid out well is half the battle as far as I can see11:00
AlanBellrww yes, UDS-L11:00
nigelbyeah, I've seen popey give out -1 before end of introduction because wiki is badly formatted11:00
popeythats not true11:01
popeyits not bad formatting11:01
popeyits lack of content11:01
nigelbyeah, that too ;)11:01
nigelbmost of the time they go hand in hand11:01
popeyeven I'm not _that_ bad11:01
nigelbbtw, is there any problem if I ask for memership with another regional membership board?11:01
nigelbI dont think I'll be able to make the time of the my membership board11:01
PendulumI went with Americas because I knew I was most likely to be able to make an Americas board meeting11:02
DavieyIf you got rejected by one board, jumping straight to the next regional board might be a problem :)11:02
nigelblol, no.  I dont intend to do that ;)11:02
PendulumI considered going with EMEA, though, because at the time Americas didn't have a scheduled meeting11:02
nigelbpleia2: ^ lol11:02
nigelbbah, she i'll still be sleeping11:03
rwwYeah, the Californians are all /theoretically/ asleep right now >.>11:03
PendulumI'm sure she's sleeping11:03
nigelbrww: except for you?11:05
rwwnigelb: indeed11:05
nigelbhehe :)11:05
nigelbPendulum: I could use some testimonial love :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NigelBabu11:26
nigelband lemme know if I should be changing anything11:27
Pendulumnigelb: you'll get some when I am more awake :)11:27
nigelbczajkowski, popey, AlanBell: could take some time to leave a testimonial? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NigelBabu11:29
nigelb(and do point out mistakes, changes)11:29
popeyI'm sorry, I think it's best I dont. I have stopped putting testimonials on peoples pages. it can be akward, what with me being one of the regional message boards, so I generally only leave testimonials for people I know _really_ well or worked very closely with. sorry11:32
nigelbpopey: np11:32
nigelbpopey: anything I should correct though?11:32
nigelbugh! all the people I work with are in bed now ;)11:33
AlanBellI will have a look later nigelb11:33
nigelbAlanBell: thanks :)11:33
popeynigelb: i would put a more direct link to the course you wrote11:34
popeyit's hard to rummage around in bzr during a meeting11:34
popeypreferably if you have a pdf or something, that would be better11:34
nigelbthe course is in bzr11:34
nigelbits not yet in pdf11:34
popey"it's hard to rummage around in bzr during a meeting"11:34
popeycan you not generate a pdf?11:35
nigelbhm, I'll generate a pdf and attach11:35
nigelbpopey: looks like the music store is going to give me plenty of work.. its going to use rhythmbox which I triage :)11:58
nigelbI just got around to closing some of the very old ones, looks like its going to be 'all hands on deck' :p11:58
AlanBellick, those bugs will be full of cross people12:07
AlanBell"I paid for song foo and it didn't turn up, Ubuntu steals songs and kills kittens"12:08
nigelbAlanBell: lol, I get that already12:08
wintellectWill the UbuntuOneStore be accessible from a browser - or will you *need* Rhythmbox to get to the music?12:20
rwwwintellect: I believe it's browser-accessible12:21
czajkowskirww: congrats on your membership, I didn't realise you were up last night also12:21
rwwczajkowski: thanks :). Yep, it was quite the party. Three other people I know/am acquainted with were on the agenda.12:22
czajkowskiheh good stuff12:22
PendulumI think I knew 2 others12:23
Pendulumit was a nice group12:23
PendulumI like meetings where everyone is on their stuff and gets approved :)12:23
rwwI know h00k from #ubuntu-offtopic, and Yasumoto (who they didn't get to) is an awesome member of the California LoCo12:24
rwwPendulum: yeah, things were a lot smoother than the other times I've looked in on membership meetings12:25
PendulumI've looked in on a lot of meetings some of which went smoothly and some of which were just painful12:25
Pendulum(I've only missed one EMEA or Americas board meeting since I think UDS)12:26
popey12:21:02 < rww> wintellect: I believe it's browser-accessible12:26
popeyit isnt12:26
nigelbPendulum: thats the first meeting I saw where everyone was accepted.12:26
popeywell, it's accessible, but you can't downloads songs from it12:26
nigelbPendulum: I've seen a couple where no one was12:27
nigelbpopey: so you need banshee or rhythmbox... right?12:27
Pendulumnigelb: so have I and I can't remember if I've ever seen a meeting before where everyone was accepted12:27
popeyAlanBell / nigelb those bugs about the store should be directed to rhythmbox-ubuntuone-musicstore package, not rhythmbox12:27
nigelbAlanBell: target was 0?12:27
AlanBellno targets have been set12:27
nigelbAlanBell: high time we did ;)12:27
nigelbpopey: ah, lucky then :)12:28
rwwpopey, wintellect: Ah, indeed. It appears I misread a FAQ entry talking about the Ubuntu One (syncing) website.12:28
popeynigelb: other media players can implement it if they want to12:28
nigelbpopey: I was reading specs a few days back, and thought I saw banshee12:28
popeybanshee has been approved, so developers can start writing the plugin12:29
popeyamarok too12:29
AlanBellpopey: so when you buy a song it gets delivered to the U1 server and then down to your computers? not down to the computer then back up to U1?12:29
AlanBellnigelb: high time indeed, I am not going to disagree with you on that point.12:30
nigelbAlanBell: I think 1 per month to a total of 6 per cycle is a not too bad target for now12:30
AlanBellI would be happy with any specific and realistic target agreed upon by the group12:35
AlanBellit wasn't a blueprint item from the last UDS, so isn't really on the agenda for this cycle I guess12:36
nigelbwe should probably remind someone to think about it next time12:41
nigelbits easier to measure progress when we have quantifiable goals to achieve12:42
Pendulumstick it on a meeting agenda12:42
nigelbI never make it to UW meetings, its always when I'm at work :p12:42
nigelbwow, I got a german visitor on my blog and he/she's left a comment in german12:45
wintellecthave you translated the comment to ensure it's not spam? (no offence intended)12:46
nigelbwhich is why I'm surprised12:47
nigelbI thought it was spam initially12:47
nigelbbah, it is spam :p12:47
nigelbwell the comment wasn't, but his website is something to do with porn...12:48
popeyhappens all the time, which is why i use akismet12:48
nigelbI do use askimet, but somehow it missed this one12:48
nigelbpopey: I like your new intro page12:50
popeywas made for me by a friend12:50
nigelbI generally read via feedreader, recently saw that page12:51
AlanBell[15:57:11] <pleia2> [ACTION] Percentage goal decision to be discussed further13:03
AlanBellso I guess it is an action arising from a previous meeting still13:05
nigelbAlanBell: we probably just need to remind pleia2 :)13:09
nigelbI think numbers would be better though13:10
AlanBellI think we just have13:10
AlanBellI added it to the agenda13:10
nigelbI wanna make it to the next meeting at least13:10
AlanBellI will provide an update on the current status at the next meeting13:10
nigelbAlanBell: issyl0 is going for membership next month, so might be on the way to 1 per month ;)13:11
AlanBellooh tight schedule!13:12
AlanBellemea board meets at 20:00 on the 2nd, U-W meeting is at 21:00 on the 2nd13:13
nigelbhehe, thats really tight13:14
AlanBellthat will be a visible blip in the chart (if all goes to plan)13:14
nigelbI still think we need to take the percentages13:15
nigelbbah, lemme format it right.  I think we need to take the percentages out and work with solid numbers13:16
AlanBellI translated a few percentages into solid numbers in the "What would we have to do to change it in the next cycle?" bit13:20
nigelbthts a statistics class right there13:23
nigelbAlanBell: the profiles page could use an "Is Ubuntu Member" field13:25
popeynot sure I like "how long does it take"13:27
popeymakes it sound like a target13:27
nigelbme neither13:27
popeylike people should look to get their membership quickly13:28
popeyit's less "how long does it take" more "how long between registration and becoming a member"13:28
popeywhich I know is a long handed way of saying it, but "how long does it take" just doesnt sit right13:28
AlanBellyeah, it wasn't a target, just an interesting graph that dropped out of the data13:29
AlanBelltoo nice a curve to leave out13:30
czajkowskiissyl0: is going for hers next month14:14
nigelbczajkowski: I did mention that somewhere14:18
akgranerhey AlanBell will you be around in a couple hours like after 6pm your time?14:28
AlanBellakgraner: sure14:33
AlanBellbit later would probably be better14:33
akgranerAlanBell, yep for me to - I have 2 articles I have to have turned in today so I will be swamped for the next few hours - but in a good way...14:35
issyl0Hello there.16:12
issyl0Ooh, thanks for letting people know czajkowski.16:13
issyl0Congratulations to Pendulum, above all though, w000!16:13
czajkowskiissyl0: no bother16:13
* issyl0 goes and hopes her scrollback gets far enough back through #ubuntu-meeting :)16:14
czajkowskiissyl0: logged chanel16:14
czajkowskiyou can just get them from log list16:14
czajkowskithen you'll get an idea of the meeting format, though I note USA board uses mootbot, EMEA doesn't but you get the idea16:15
issyl0No worries I found it :)16:16
issyl0Ah right, OK.16:16
* issyl0 goes looking for the logs then.16:16
czajkowskiissyl0: so if you want to see an EMEA one, find the date and look at the logs of that meeting16:17
issyl0czajkowski: Ok, and erm where are the logs? :)16:22
* issyl0 should search more thoroughly.16:22
nigelbissyl0: irclogs.ubuntu.com16:23
issyl0Hmm, thanks!16:24
issyl0irclogs.ubuntu.com doesn't give much away as to the dates and where the meeting logs are, even in #ubuntu-meeting section.16:25
nigelbyou got to get the calender and look for dates of first tuesdays or whenever your board meets16:25
nigelband then check logs16:25
czajkowskiI use http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/16:25
issyl0Aaah... I did just read it properly, thanks nigelb, czajkowski!16:26
nigelbczajkowski: does it have all channels ?16:26
* issyl0 works out when the first Tuesday of January was.16:26
nigelbissyl0: click on the time in top right, should open a calender16:27
issyl0Huh?  Oh, yeah :P16:27
* issyl0 is dense this afternoon, it's not good!16:27
* nigelb thought issyl0 was impatient :p16:27
issyl0nigelb: I've got better with that... but yes I am still ;)16:28
nigelbissyl0: 1, 29, 2 for dec, jan, and feb ;)16:28
* nigelb goes to get ready for work16:29
popeyczajkowski: logs.ubuntu-eu.org is for loco channels, irclogs.ubuntu.com is for project channels16:31
popeyin theory16:31
issyl0What I read of the logs was pretty interesting.16:33
* pleia2 isn't the one who needs to be reminded re: percentages :)17:20
pleia2I was just the meeting chair!17:20
Pendulumand you were a good chair :)17:21
pleia2thanks :)17:21
jussi01so who was the meeting table? :D17:26
AlanBellthe word "table" in relation to meetings is one of the irritating words that means the exact opposite in British and American English18:18
maco2going by what jussi01 said im guessing in british, table means chair?18:19
maco2AlanBell: but jussi used it like a noun :-/18:33
AlanBellthis is true, and it was a most agreeable pun18:45
AlanBellanyhow, I guess it was an action on everyone to discuss percentages then?18:46
maco2i dont know what youre talking about though18:47
maco2what meeting?18:47
AlanBelloh, in the meeting http://www.novarata.net/mootbot/ubuntu-women.log.20100107_1501.html there was an action [ACTION] Percentage goal decision to be discussed further18:48
AlanBellwhich came up earlier as I updated the graph on this page http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UbuntuMembers18:49
AlanBelland someone ( nigelnb I think) noticed that the targets were all zero18:49
Pendulummaco2: I think jussi01 was making a joke18:51
Pendulumas pleia2 had said she'd "chaired" the meeting so he was joking about "who tabled it?"18:52
maco2ah ok18:52
Pendulumso making a joke about tables and chairs18:52
maco2i joined in the middle18:52
jussi01bwahahah... the joke has everyone confuzzled :D18:54
AlanBellyeah the words meeting and table together triggered the triviabot in my head18:54
jussi01but yes, maco2is correct18:54
AlanBellakgraner: ready whenever20:42
akgranerAlanBell, ok cool :-)20:43
AlanBellit was suggested earlier to highlight the people on the profiles page who are Ubuntu Members21:17
AlanBellI have done this, probably missing some, on the basis that it is a wiki and can be reverted if this does not turn out to be a good idea21:18
AlanBelljust easier to talk about it if you can see what it might look like. I just stuck the favicon of the wiki next to names I recognised as having launchpad profiles on my list21:18
akgranerWhat if instead of concentrating on Ubuntu Women Members next cycle we look at how to bring more women into the project without the pressure of sustained contribution21:29
akgranerubuntu membership I mean21:29
akgranerthough if women are already contributing and want to become a member we certainly encourage those project team members21:30
valorieI see a danger if there is too much emphasis on Ubuntu Membership21:31
valoriebecause we do want to serve the general public, bring them into F/OSS21:32
valorieand K/Ubuntu21:32
valorienot just membership21:32
valoriewe don't want to be known as a membership conduit only.....21:32
akgranervalorie, yep that was my point I guess21:32
AlanBellnot just a membership conduit, certainly not21:35
valorieit's exciting to help someone achieve their goals21:36
valorieI don't want to depreciate that21:36
valoriebut we gotta have balance21:37
AlanBellat the moment there is not an emphasis on Ubuntu membership, and no targets for what this team is achieving as a whole (it is achieving stuff)21:37
AlanBellit is a measureable and well defined metric21:37
akgranerAlanBell, we need to 1) get some other ground work in place 2) encourage people to join the LP UW team as well 3) show where contribution can take place 4) offer mentoring for that contribution if it is needed21:38
AlanBellyes, I agree with all of that21:39
akgranerwhile it is measurable - I am not sure that is the area of concentration we need to focus on to show growth while it is one are I don't necessarily think it is the most important area21:40
AlanBellthose are absolutely the sorts of things that will need to be done to achieve the aims of the project21:40
akgranerhowever, I could be completely off base -21:42
AlanBellor I could be :-)21:42
AlanBellthat is much more likely tbh21:42
akgranerI know we aren't a "LoCo" team as it is defined but LoCo teams and other projects don't base success on the number of Ubuntu Members they have...  I think the information you have is very important in terms of the Ubuntu Project as a whole, and I absolutely believe it should be tracked in the way you are tracking it21:43
akgranerand I believe we as a team should keep our eye on those numbers21:44
AlanBelldo you thing women are under-represented in Ubuntu?21:44
akgraneroh of course21:45
akgranerbut I am bot sure it is something we can say hey join the ubuntu women project today and in 6 months you can be an ubuntu member21:45
AlanBellthe UK loco is not aiming to fix a curious lack of British people in the community21:46
akgranerI would think we could take the LP team list and the dates people join and then overlay it with your info on ubuntu membership21:46
akgranerand I would like to see more people join the team on LP as that has been decided to be the Offical team list21:47
valorieis that mentioned in all our basic pages, Amber?21:49
valoriethat people should list themselves on Launchpad?21:49
akgranerwhile one of the goals is to bring more women into the ubuntu project, I am not sure saying join the team and let's work toward your ubuntu membership is the right way - however for those women who are in the community, and contributing b/c they are excited and motivated to help the Ubuntu Project and don't know that what they are doing with their contribution is sustained and meets all the requirements then we should encourage th21:50
akgranerem to seek membership21:50
valoriebecause Ubuntu is the only distro with a system like that21:50
valorieI think21:50
akgranervalorie, I am going over all that this weekend to see what still needs to be sent to the list...  I know I sent the logs and minutes to the list back in January when it was decided but it may need to be added to wikis21:52
valorieand a sticky topic on the Forum21:52
AlanBellI am not suggesting press gangs rounding up new users and forcing them down the member pipeline :-)21:54
AlanBellor any high pressure activity21:55
AlanBelljust getting more people involved with Ubuntu21:55
AlanBellso that the community is more like it is in the rest of the computing industry, closer to mainstream21:56
AlanBellmore professional and more mainstream is where I want the community to go as a whole21:57
akgranerAlanBell, I didn't mean to imply you were - I am just as excited about UWP team members becoming Ubuntu Members but don't want to lose focus on the other goals..  and yes we need to figure out how to make the roadmap, and other goals measurable21:57
akgranerAlanBell, but part of the charm of the community is that it is relaxed in some ways and not "professional" in all it does :-)  and in that way it is easy for people to get involved21:58
AlanBellrelaxed is not the opposite of professional22:00
AlanBelland sexist is a subset of unprofessional22:00
akgranerI can agree that sexist is definitely unprofessional but I don't want to be so professional that it ceases to be relaxed and inviting22:02
akgraneranywho back to measurable goals22:03
AlanBellindeed, back to measurable goals22:03
AlanBellI was just trying to explain my motivation a bit22:04
AlanBellI am a very relaxed person btw22:05
AlanBellexplain how you want to overlay the launchpad group with the other statistics22:06
akgranerAlanBell, I know :-)  and I don't want to discourage that motivation in anyway22:06
akgranerAlanBell, that was where I was thinking out loud...  I would like to see when people joined the LP group in relation to when/if they became members22:08
AlanBellczajkowski is going to be all cross with me for being too businesslike when she sees this22:08
akgraner:-)  yeah she tells me I am too business like as well some times  - so I think I am in good company...22:08
AlanBellok, so 202 people in the team22:09
AlanBellI would guess the proportions are the same as we see on IRC so about 100 women in the LP group22:09
akgranerAlanBell, that is where I was hoping your ability to crunch all the info would come in handy22:09
AlanBellthat gives everyone 3 key dates, when they created their launchpad profile, when they joined the U-W team and if/when they joined the members team22:11
AlanBellI would expect there to be a big gender gap in this22:11
akgranerI would too22:11
AlanBellblokes new to launchpad won't join the u-w team22:11
AlanBellwomen would be much more likely to join it quickly22:12
akgranerThis is why I want to encourage and tell more women specifically about the team22:12
AlanBellwhat I find odd about launchpad is that joining a team doesn't really do very much22:13
akgranerno and that is what I would like to see change - LP can be used for team management a little better22:13
AlanBellI happen to be a member of the team, but if I wasn't it wouldn't affect me in the least22:13
akgranerwhen it comes to voting it would22:14
akgranerwe need a place to have people join and have an official team list somewhere and this will take time22:14
akgranerit is another place to measure things as well22:14
akgranerHowever if LP doesn't work from the team management approach there are other systems out there22:16
AlanBellthe mailing list is separate from the launchpad team isn't it22:17
akgranerI am just saying that the more organized and goal oriented we as a team become, and the more we want to measure and show progress we are going to need ways to achieve this22:18
akgraneryes it is - which is why back in January I asked the mailing list folks to join LP22:18
akgranerand I asked the forums folks to join as well22:18
AlanBellyes, I am just looking for incentives to add22:18
AlanBellat the moment I can be on IRC, the forums, the mailing list, edit the wiki and not be in the launchpad group22:18
akgraneryep - that needs to be looked at22:19
AlanBellI can probably even file a bug against the group without being in it :-)22:19
akgranerwhy being in the LP group doesn't need you to do anything except join22:19
valoriewell, you have to sign the CoC first22:19
akgranerpeople don't need to be in every group22:19
valorieand to do that you have to have a GPG thingie22:20
AlanBellvalorie: to join the group?22:20
valorieso there is a bit of biz to joining on Launchpad22:20
valorieI believe so, yes22:20
valorieyou can't have an account without signing the CoC22:20
valorieand you can't sign without a key22:20
valorieso it is a bit techie22:20
* valorie managed it anyway22:21
valoriethis is UBUNTU Women22:21
valorieso I'm fine with that22:21
valoriebut we should offer hand-holding to those who haven't ever done anything like this22:21
issyl0Hello again, I'm back.22:22
AlanBellI don't think you need to sign the CoC to create a launchpad account and join groups22:22
valorieare at least recognition that there IS a barrier there22:22
maco2valorie: you can have an account, you just cant become a member without signing, i think22:22
AlanBellyou do to be a member or have a PPA22:22
maco2and by member i mean ubuntu member, not u-w member22:22
AlanBellhi issyl022:22
valoriemaco2: that wasn't my experience22:23
maco2valorie: just signing up to launchpad you had to sign the CoC? thats a huge change then22:23
akgranervalorie, yep - but unless we maintain a separate list of members and their email address somewhere which I am not opposed to...  we knew that is was not a perfect way22:23
valoriewe should find someone who doesn't have an account, and wants to sign up22:23
AlanBellvalorie: I signed it pretty soon after joining because it looked all interesting22:23
maco2because you can join LP to start your own project22:23
valorieas a test22:23
maco2just having an LP account should not require signing the *Ubuntu* CoC when LP is not exclusively for Ubuntu22:23
AlanBellthere are plenty of non-ubuntu projects hosted on launchpad22:23
valoriethis is just my memory I'm going on22:24
valorieUbuntu-Women is an official project of Ubuntu, though22:24
hypa7iai had an lp account for years before signing the coc22:24
akgranermaco2, can you check into the LP thing22:24
issyl0Wow, I didn't have to sign the Ubuntu CoC straight when I joined Lp, it was after I'd established myself a bit I decided to of my own accord.22:24
maco2hypa7ia: i had my account for 3 months (or was it 1 year, 3 months?) before i signed it22:24
issyl0Which was about mid-late 2009.22:24
akgranerI need to take my daughter to a friends house  - be back in just a few.. I'll read the scroll back :-)22:25
AlanBellok, so what proportion of the 202 group members have signed I wonder . . .22:26
valorieperhaps it was before joining U-W22:26
valorieor even my LoCo22:26
PendulumI think I joined UW prior to signing the CoC22:37
PendulumI certainly joined launchpad prior to signing it22:37
maco2well you cant upload a signed copy to launchpad before joining launchpad :P22:39
valoriePendulum: was it an official Ubuntu group when you joined?22:49
valorieI'm a rather recent member22:50
issyl0Pendulum: yeah22:55
Pendulumvalorie: it was november, so yes23:02
valorieok, perhaps my memory is flawed23:03
AlanBellakgraner: can you remove Ubuntu Media Relations from the group please, it is making python-launchpadlib fall over in an ungraceful heap of fail23:18
AlanBellit appears to be a group that doesn't exist, so it returns a 404 error23:19
akgranerAlanBell, just walked back in the door  :-)  me looks now23:24
akgranerAlanBell, am working on removing the Media Relations - looks like other teams had trouble with that as well23:33
akgranerahhh this is terrible - I don't have the remove button for media relations  grrrrr23:50
issyl0Yay my CV is looking better, LaTeX ftw.23:52
akgranerissyl0, yay!23:52
issyl0Oh how the heck can it be nearly midnight already?  No wonder I'm tired!23:53
akgranersvaksha, ping23:59

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