[01:11] <humphreybc> okay, what needs to be done?
[01:12] <humphreybc> i've got all afternoon to do stuff, give me some things that need to be done :D
[01:47] <humphreybc> i might start designing the ubuntumanual website
[01:53] <ubuntujenkins> sounds like a plan :-)
[02:25] <humphreybc> man it's been so long since i did web design
[02:26] <ubuntujenkins> I haven't done it for 4 years, dreamwever at gcse
[03:01] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc what are your thoughts on changing the user name from quickshot to ubuntu-manual?
[03:01] <humphreybc> i think we should leave it as quickshot, we want to design it so that other projects can use it in the future
[03:02] <ubuntujenkins> fair enough I just thought it would look better in the manual. you don't know how to a sign icons to windows in glade?
[03:04] <humphreybc> no idea :P
[03:05] <ubuntujenkins> my branch as nearly full resolution change working in python windows and all one tiny bit to add before wider testing.
[03:05] <ubuntujenkins> I say tiny it may take days
[03:12] <humphreybc> does anyone know why my photoshop has decided everything should be in grayscale?
[03:13] <humphreybc> i'm trying to choose some green for the download button but it's only giving grayscale
[03:13] <ubuntujenkins> I don't use photoshop sorry
[03:13] <ubuntujenkins> night
[03:25] <humphreybc> first mockup of our website: http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4393245991/sizes/o/
[03:25] <humphreybc> keep it quiet for now please people, don't want to let too many people know until we have a better mockup
[03:53] <humphreybc> mockup #2: http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4393304657/sizes/o/
[04:02] <humphreybc> #3 - i've just tweaked some small stuff http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4394088352/sizes/o/
[04:11] <humphreybc> okay the files are in the branch now. i've also put the source .psd files too (yes I use photoshop, get over it)
[08:01] <humphreybc> hey, who's around at the moment?
[08:18] <godbyk> humphreybc: I'm here.
[08:18] <humphreybc> godbyk: did you see the website mockup?
[08:19] <godbyk> I glanced at it.
[08:20] <humphreybc> okay, i think i've almost finished the design part of it
[08:20] <humphreybc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4394482088/in/photostream/
[08:21] <humphreybc> i need some feedback though
[08:21] <godbyk> humphreybc: what kind of feedback are you looking for?
[08:22] <humphreybc> mainly layout feedback
[08:22] <humphreybc> and also feedback on the process on the main page
[08:22] <humphreybc> ie, step order, combo boxes or bullet points etc
[08:23] <godbyk> k
[08:23] <godbyk> let's see..
[08:24] <humphreybc> click on "all sizes" to see the bigger verson
[08:24] <humphreybc> version* at 100%
[08:24] <godbyk> so it looks like if I were to go to www.ubuntu-manual.org, that I would see the home.png page, is that right?
[08:24] <humphreybc> and also check out the "about" page - which is an idea of what the content pages will be http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4394482178/in/photostream/
[08:24] <humphreybc> yes indeedy
[08:25] <godbyk> I would move a lot of the 'about page' content to the home page.
[08:25] <godbyk> and put a prominent download button on that page.
[08:25] <humphreybc> hmm, true, but i'm working on the assumption that most people know about it already
[08:25] <godbyk> the download button would default to the latest edition and the detected language.
[08:25] <godbyk> there would be a small link below the button that said 'other editions' or somesuch that leads to the current home.png page you have, where they can select a different version and language.
[08:26] <humphreybc> but they might not want to download their detected language, if they're on a shared computer, or someone elses, or at an internet cafe
[08:26] <humphreybc> ah okay
[08:26] <humphreybc> hmm
[08:26] <humphreybc> the reason i have given so much choice so far is to make it ready for when we actually have other versions in the future for Xubuntu/Kubuntu etc
[08:27] <godbyk> sure.. and that page looks fine for a 'download whatever version you want' page.
[08:27] <humphreybc> so you think we need more "about" on the home page?
[08:27] <godbyk> but I think in the general case, most people will want to download the latest edition in their own language.
[08:27] <godbyk> I would take the about page, split the 'about the project' section into two columns..
[08:27] <godbyk> the current para can sit in the first column.
[08:28] <godbyk> the second column would contain just a Download button and a link to select alternative versions.
[08:28] <godbyk> the link would take them to the home.png sketch where they can pick their options.
[08:28] <humphreybc> oaky
[08:28] <humphreybc> okay*
[08:28] <humphreybc> i wouldn't lay it out in two columns though
[08:28] <godbyk> that way, when they go to ubuntu-manual.org (or whatever), they can get a quick overview of what it is they're downloading.
[08:29] <humphreybc> how about have the page look like the current home.png page, but instead of the questions we have the "features" bullet points, then a download button with the link. in the second column there is the image
[08:29] <humphreybc> the "collage" of pictures will eventually actually be a collage of title pages for each version
[08:30] <godbyk> I'd prominently place the download button toward the top of the page where it's easy for people to find.
[08:30] <humphreybc> but when our project actually does produce a Kubuntu Manual, and a Xubuntu manual etc.. what will the download button on the front page do? just download the ubuntu one by default?
[08:30] <humphreybc> yeah but a huge green embossed button will stand out anywhere on a page with a gray and white colour scheme
[08:31] <godbyk> unless I have to scroll to read it.
[08:31] <godbyk> I don't want to have to scroll through bullet points to get to the download.
[08:31] <godbyk> Some examples:
[08:31] <godbyk> http://do.davebsd.com/
[08:32] <godbyk> http://banshee-project.org/
[08:32] <humphreybc> true
[08:32] <humphreybc> okay i'll make another mockup with a layout similar to that
[08:32] <godbyk> you're right in that most people will probably know what they're getting when they come to our site.
[08:32] <godbyk> so we should give them a download button right off the bat.
[08:32] <humphreybc> the thing with our stuff is that eventually we'll have multiple products
[08:33] <humphreybc> and we can't force them to look for a small link to get the other ones
[08:33] <godbyk> but we should also provide some text explaining what's going on to those who found the site via google or a link from their grandson or whatnot.
[08:33] <humphreybc> true
[08:33] <humphreybc> i was thinking of moving the about link to the left side of the menu bar
[08:33] <godbyk> well, we can deal with that when the time comes. :-)
[08:33] <humphreybc> next to home
[08:34] <godbyk> http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/firefox.html
[08:35] <godbyk> the sites I've been linking to all have large download buttons up-front (with links to other options in case they mis-detected something or you just want to download an alternative version), and also explain what their project is about briefly.
[08:35] <humphreybc> yup
[08:36] <humphreybc> righto i've got a plan in my head on how to shuffle stuff, give me an hour or so and i'll come back to ya :P
[08:36] <godbyk> looks like ubuntu has updated their site recently, too: http://www.ubuntu.com/
[08:37] <godbyk> fair enough. :-)
[08:37] <godbyk> quick sketches are fine, too.  doesn't have to be pixel-perfect.
[08:38] <humphreybc> i like pixel perfect
[08:38] <humphreybc> makes it easy for the HTML guys to slice and make into a site
[08:38] <humphreybc> i would do the HTML stuff myself but i've forgotten, and i don't have dreamweaver which i learnt on
[08:39] <godbyk> well, in the end it's better, but for testing designs, it's not required.
[08:39] <godbyk> (especially if we're going to just throw most of the designs away)
[08:40] <humphreybc> we're not going to throw them away!
[08:40] <humphreybc> what do you think of the wording in the feature list?
[08:41] <humphreybc> the docs team are going to hate us btw
[08:41] <godbyk> why will they hate us?
[08:41] <humphreybc> because we're going to have this amazing website promoting our product
[08:41] <humphreybc> because we're ultimately doing a better job than them, and they're going to see our feature list and bork because they have none of that
[08:42] <humphreybc> but that's something to worry about later P
[08:42] <humphreybc> :P
[08:43] <godbyk> *shrug* they can always make a nice website, too. :-)
[08:43] <godbyk> btw, did you register a domain name?
[08:43] <godbyk> Feature bullet points:
[08:44] <godbyk> * easy to understand -- I'd simplify the language a bit here (ironically)
[08:44] <godbyk> * compatible -- not much of a bragging point, and no one cares
[08:44] <godbyk> * flexible - we're not offering html5 yet, just pdf.  we can add this back if/when we offer html5 or other formats
[08:45] <godbyk> * pictures -- an okay selling point (depending on how our screenshots turn out), but I'd clean up the language a bit
[08:45] <humphreybc> haven't done a domain name yet, should do that very soon
[08:45] <godbyk> * all in one place -- kind of a odd selling point. might be better if it were phrased differently, not sure.
[08:46] <godbyk> * dozens of languages -- each reader only really cares about one language -- their own. phrase this to say, 'it's in your language' or something to that effect
[08:46] <godbyk> * gpl licensing -- actually, we're using CC-BY-SA licensing, but I'd phrase it more as 'you're allowed to copy it and give it to your friends'
[08:47] <godbyk> * no cost -- this should possibly be further up the list. and it's okay to say 'free', since it meets all the definitions of that word.
[08:47] <godbyk> having said all that, I wouldn't fret about the text so much right this second.. once it's in html we can edit that easily.
[08:48] <godbyk> once we have the text written, we can sic the translators on it and have a multilingual site, too.
[08:48] <godbyk> (so avoid putting text in graphics wherever possible.. it'll make life easier for translation.)
[08:53] <humphreybc> yeah true
[08:53] <humphreybc> do you like the bullet points?
[08:53] <humphreybc> it looks okay without them
[08:53] <godbyk> oh, the bullets themselves?  I think they're unnecessary.
[08:53] <godbyk> the bold text introduces each point well enough.
[08:55] <humphreybc> yeah
[08:59] <humphreybc> godbyk: http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4393796059/sizes/o/
[09:00] <godbyk> humphreybc: better. it's a little odd having to 'read past' the cover images to get to the actual text though.
[09:00] <godbyk> would it look better if the covers were on the right?
[09:00] <humphreybc> true, but banshee does that on their site
[09:01] <godbyk> instead of 'alternative downloads' at the top, I'd just say 'downloads'.
[09:01] <humphreybc> yeah good point
[09:02] <humphreybc> i've been trying to decide whether we should have links to the project page/launchpad/planet UM/wiki etc on the page
[09:02] <humphreybc> website* sorry
[09:02] <humphreybc> or just leave the end-user site completely separate from our project stuff
[09:02] <godbyk> maybe just put those links under the 'how you can help' page.
[09:02] <godbyk> I don't think they need to clutter the front page.
[09:02] <godbyk> readers won't care about those links.
[09:02] <godbyk> and the front page of the site is solely for the readers.
[09:03] <godbyk> also the text under the 'about the project' is focused more on the project team than on the manual itself.  I think the manual is more important (on this page).
[09:03] <humphreybc> yeah true
[09:04] <godbyk> basically, you're telling me why I want to download the manual.
[09:04] <godbyk> I don't care if trained monkeys wrote it. :)
[09:04] <humphreybc> i've noticed that our wiki is crap for information on the product itself :P
[09:07] <godbyk> true.. but that's kind of okay for now.
[09:07] <godbyk> it does need to be cleaned up and updated though.
[09:07] <godbyk> some of that's my fault.  I haven't done a good job with keeping the latex/style stuff up to speed.
[09:07] <humphreybc> lol that's okay
[09:07] <humphreybc> the wiki wasn't really designed to be the selling point for the end user
[09:08] <godbyk> right
[09:08] <thorwil> hi!
[09:08] <humphreybc> how's this: Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04 is a comprehensive beginners guide for Ubuntu. It is written by and for users of Ubuntu and aims to help you make the most out of your new operating system.
[09:09] <humphreybc> "The manual is available in over 40 different languages and features over 200 pages of information written in a clear and concise style to make it easy for you to understand."
[09:09] <humphreybc> that's just for the text to the right of the image
[09:09] <godbyk> hey, thorwil!
[09:09] <humphreybc> hey thorwil!
[09:10] <godbyk> "beginner's guide"
[09:10] <godbyk> and the latter half of the second sentence sounds a bit funky.
[09:10] <thorwil> humphreybc: how about just "... and helps you to make the most out of it."
[09:10] <godbyk> I'll come back to it
[09:10] <humphreybc> thorwil: i've been busy mocking up our website, take a look: http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4393810569/sizes/o/
[09:10] <godbyk> instead of "to make it easy for you to understand" just say "so that it's easy to understand" (or drop the phrase entirely)
[09:11] <godbyk> thorwil: that sounds better.
[09:11] <godbyk> the 'new operating system' bit was weird.
[09:11] <thorwil> humphreybc: no all lowercase for the navigation, please
[09:12] <humphreybc> thorwil: why not?
[09:12] <humphreybc> i thought that was the "cool" thing to do :P
[09:13] <thorwil> humphreybc: because a work of literacy is our context
[09:13] <thorwil> humphreybc: see, it's wrong exactly because you think it would be the "cool thing" ;)
[09:13] <humphreybc> ahh, i suppose you have a point then :P
[09:14] <thorwil> humphreybc: you don't write titles in the document lowercase, so don't do it on the website, either
[09:14] <humphreybc> kk, changed
[09:14] <thorwil> cool
[09:14] <godbyk> thorwil: ha! not that I'd use the titles in our doc as a good example of *anything*!  <grin>
[09:15] <thorwil> humphreybc: that header image will have to go. which likely means i have to offer an alternative. well, later, perhaps
[09:15] <humphreybc> what's wrong with the header image?
[09:16] <thorwil> humphreybc: there are two reasons that will become apparent only in the near future
[09:16] <humphreybc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4393818663/sizes/o/
[09:16] <thorwil> humphreybc: the sub-title has an odd layout and uses a font that has no connection to the style of the document
[09:16] <humphreybc> oh yeah, i know the subtitle is too funky for us :P
[09:17] <thorwil> humphreybc: there's the old title page design embedded
[09:17] <thorwil> humphreybc: finally it's just a pile of stuff
[09:17] <godbyk> humphreybc: plus, we'll want it probably align more closely with our title page design and other graphics.
[09:17] <humphreybc> indeed
[09:17] <humphreybc> well, that's probably the best icon i've ever made, so you're welcome to go ahead and create a better one
[09:17] <humphreybc> because that's the limit of my icon making :P
[09:18] <godbyk> also if we can keep text out of graphics, we can translate it (relatively) easily.
[09:18] <humphreybc> I'm surprised neither of you have commented on the font yet...
[09:18] <godbyk> which one?
[09:19] <thorwil> quoting myself: "and uses a font that has no connection to the style of the document"
[09:19] <humphreybc> it's Droid Sans
[09:19] <humphreybc> nicest font in the world
[09:19] <humphreybc> no no not that font
[09:19] <humphreybc> i mean the one on the site
[09:19] <humphreybc> anyway thorwil, this is going to be the website for all of the team's products - not just "getting started with ubuntu 10.04" - that's only the first in a series of manuals
[09:20] <humphreybc> and each manual will have a different style, colour scheme etc
[09:20] <godbyk> I think we can use the exact same fonts as we use in the manual.  I think they all allow for @font-face embedding.  Now whether we'd want to is another matter. I'm sure the hinting is miserable on many of 'em.
[09:20] <humphreybc> i really really really like droid sans
[09:20] <thorwil> humphreybc: http://troy-sobotka.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-droid-isnt-answer.html
[09:20] <humphreybc> i know most computers don't have it, so we'd have to slice it
[09:20] <humphreybc> thorwil: answer for everything?
[09:20] <godbyk> 'slice it'?
[09:21] <thorwil> humphreybc: no, just read it
[09:22] <humphreybc> reading it, it's a pretty in depth analysis of a font o.O
[09:23] <thorwil> humphreybc: regarding "and each manual will have a different style, colour scheme etc", i would really appreciate if you would take the design specification serious. this means it has to be changed if you disagree with something (after it has been discussed).
[09:23] <humphreybc> the design specifications are just for the ubuntu manual, no?
[09:24] <thorwil> humphreybc: what means just? it's the core
[09:24] <humphreybc> does "Features of our publications" make sense?
[09:25] <humphreybc> thorwil: for now we're only focussing on the ubuntu manual, right? but I am designing the website with the future in mind
[09:25] <humphreybc> and no doubt stuff like the target audience will change depending on each manual
[09:25] <humphreybc> for example, if we make a "Ubuntu Developers Manual" we wouldn't be targeting the same people as we are at the moment
[09:25] <godbyk> humphreybc: I think for now, though, you'll get the best website for our manual if it's designed for our manual as it stands.
[09:26] <godbyk> Otherwise you're designing for some future case that hasn't been analyzed yet.
[09:26] <godbyk> and potentially compromising the current goals in the process.
[09:26] <humphreybc> okay that's a valid point
[09:26] <thorwil> humphreybc: ah, if you mean different style applied to documents with different aim, that's fine, of course
[09:26] <humphreybc> thorwil: yep, that's exactly what i mean :P
[09:26] <thorwil> humphreybc: i'm worried that you are too optimistic/ambitious, though
[09:27] <humphreybc> ambition leads to good things, thorwil
[09:27] <godbyk> thorwil: I'm worried that I have enough on my plate to ponder with just one manual at the moment! <grin>
[09:27] <humphreybc> hehe
[09:27] <humphreybc> don't worry, it's not going to be a fast thing
[09:27] <humphreybc> i'm not going to go "hey okay now we're going to make X, Y and Z manuals" after lucid
[09:28] <godbyk> As for the website, I'd suggest we focus on building the best site for this particular manual right now.
[09:28] <godbyk> If we write other manuals later, we can look at how that will affect the web design.
[09:28] <thorwil> yeah
[09:28] <humphreybc> but what I am doing is setting up a team that can produce quality documents for Ubuntu and its derivatives. our current project, the UBUNTU manual, is forming a basis for us to do a lot of testing on workflow and that sort of thing. we're also finding out what tools we need and developing them as we see fit
[09:29] <humphreybc> (Quickshot)
[09:29] <humphreybc> so when it comes to making other publications, we'll already have a tonne of stuff in place and it will be a lot easier
[09:29] <godbyk> Otherwise, you'll be designing for some other audience than the one we're trying to attract. And that doesn't work too well.
[09:29] <humphreybc> then what will happen is "The Ubuntu Manual Team" as we know it will take on a different name, and oversee the sub-teams who are in charge of the Ubuntu manual, the Kubuntu manual etc
[09:29] <humphreybc> godbyk: sweet, that's cool
[09:29] <godbyk> That's all fine, but right now we have a pretty simple audience to appeal to. Why complicate that before we must?
[09:30] <humphreybc> yeah i know, well, i have actually designed it to follow our current stuff a bit - i haven't added in any blue or anything P
[09:30] <humphreybc> :P *
[09:30] <humphreybc> i've based the design around login.ubuntu.com
[09:31]  * godbyk likes blue. :)
[09:31] <humphreybc> haha
[09:32] <humphreybc> godbyk: do you find your android phone drops the wifi all the time and randomly switches to 3G?
[09:32] <humphreybc> apparently it is meant to turn off wifi when it goes to sleep/standby
[09:32] <humphreybc> to save battery
[09:32] <godbyk> humphreybc: My phone keeps the wifi connection without any problems (that I've noticed so far)
[09:32] <humphreybc> and then it downloads updates and emails on the data connection when it's in standby
[09:32] <godbyk> but it's usually plugged in when I'm at my desk.
[09:33] <humphreybc> okay
[09:33] <humphreybc> hm
[09:33] <humphreybc> see the problem i was having is it would go to data, use up all my data downloading updates/emails and stuff, then when i went out of standby to use it, it wouldn't auto-reconnect to wifi
[09:33] <humphreybc> i think it doesn't like our router too much
[09:33] <humphreybc> it used all of my 100mb monthly allowance the other day to download the 1.6 update
[09:33] <humphreybc> grr
[09:34] <humphreybc> so anyway, i set it to "never" turn off wifi - but now it's using a tonne of battery.
[09:34] <humphreybc> never win. :S
[09:35] <humphreybc> thorwil: other than your criticisms, have you got any good feedback?
[09:35] <thorwil> handsfullbbiab
[09:35] <humphreybc> lol
[09:36] <humphreybc> i must say, it looks a lot better now than before i got your guys feedback
[09:37] <humphreybc> is it just me, or does GIMP not have "blending options" at all? no drop shadows or anything?
[09:37] <TommyBrunn> Nope. It doesn't have blending options or adjustment layers.
[09:39]  * godbyk is quite content to remain ignorant of such matters.
[09:39] <godbyk> I'm happy to leave that sort of graphics work to others, thanks.
[09:40] <thorwil> humphreybc: background, nav-bar, padding are all alright in a general sense
[09:40] <thorwil> humphreybc: the shading of the Download Now button makes no sense
[09:41] <thorwil> oh, wait, "good feedback" ...
[09:41] <godbyk> thorwil: lol!
[09:41] <thorwil> humphreybc: you should give creating mockups in inkscape a try
[09:41] <godbyk> I do like inkscape.
[09:42] <godbyk> I wish it had better text-handling stuff, though.
[09:42] <humphreybc> see, that's why I use photoshop over GIMP
[09:42] <godbyk> (Although I've heard they've been adding features in that realm.)
[09:42] <humphreybc> nothing ever looks good without a good ol' drop shadow
[09:42]  * humphreybc still hasn't got round to using inkscape
[09:42] <TommyBrunn> Drop shadows are a bitch to implement without CSS3 though.'
[09:43] <humphreybc> the way I see it, I could try to use Inkscape or GIMP and come out with a much worse looking product - not because the programs are any worse than photoshop, but because I simply know how to use photoshop. Over time I would get better at Inkscape/GIMP - but why spend the time learning when photoshop works fine for me?
[09:43] <humphreybc> This stuff was done on PS CS2
[09:44] <thorwil> humphreybc: photoshop vs gimp is an entirely different thing from either of them vs inkscape
[09:44] <humphreybc> yeah i know, but i'm just using those as examples
[09:45] <humphreybc> do you guys think there is anything else we have to say on the home page?
[09:46] <thorwil> humphreybc: does there have to be separate Home and Downloads?
[09:47] <thorwil> humphreybc: where would Read_online go?
[09:47] <humphreybc> yep, godbyk and i discussed this before you arrived
[09:47] <humphreybc> well we don't have an HTML5 version yet
[09:47] <humphreybc> basically on the home page, the download button there would detect the system language and download the right PDF for you
[09:47] <thorwil> humphreybc: "how you can help" could be "Get involved"
[09:47] <humphreybc> and the "alternative download options" link goes to the downloads page
[09:48] <thorwil> ok
[09:48] <humphreybc> where they can choose a different language if they want, or get a version optimized for printing
[09:48] <humphreybc> because the detection might be wrong if they're on a friends' computer, or at an internet cafe etc
[09:49] <humphreybc> should we mention that it's FOSS somewhere on the front page?
[09:49] <humphreybc> i suppose it says that in the "GPL licensing" feature item
[09:50] <godbyk> humphreybc: though it's not GPL, it's CC-BY-SA.
[09:50] <humphreybc> true
[09:50] <godbyk> GPL = software, CC = text.
[09:50] <humphreybc> so i should change it to "CC licensing" ?
[09:52] <humphreybc> i feel like we should have another section on the front page.... but i don't know what
[09:53] <thorwil> humphreybc: you should first collect all information and options that have to be there
[09:53] <humphreybc> thorwil: you should know by now that i don't do things logically
[09:53] <thorwil> humphreybc: than you order that into pages
[09:54] <humphreybc> i need a new sentence for the "Easy to understand" feature thing
[09:54] <thorwil> humphreybc: and if you end up thinking there should be something additional just because, you go play some computer games
[09:54] <humphreybc> thorwil: hehe, i don't play computer games, all i do is just work and work... O.o
[09:55] <humphreybc> "Easy to understand - step by step instructions and jargon free" ?
[09:55] <humphreybc> we need to emphasize just how easy we make it
[09:57] <thorwil> step by step in plain language?
[09:57] <humphreybc> huh?
[09:58] <humphreybc> can anyone think of more features of our manual?
[10:01] <humphreybc> godbyk, until we have an HTML version of the manual, it won't be too hard to find some flash or java app that embeds PDF documents right?
[10:03] <humphreybc> what is the easiest way to say that we have a version for printing with two pages on one page?
[10:03] <godbyk> humphreybc: Er.. embedding PDFs sucks, in my opinion.
[10:03] <humphreybc> double-up or something?
[10:03] <godbyk> Though most PDF viewers embed themselves into the browser (which I hate).
[10:04] <godbyk> humphreybc: You mean using the n-up option on their printer? Or what?
[10:05] <humphreybc> well you know how we were going to do that thing where there are two pages on every page they print
[10:05] <humphreybc> so it uses half the amount of paper
[10:05] <godbyk> hmm..
[10:05] <humphreybc> and the margin notes become like a book
[10:05] <godbyk> usually that's just an option you give to the printer when you go to print it.
[10:05] <humphreybc> well we're going to assume our readers don't know that
[10:06] <humphreybc> my mum certainly wouldn't
[10:07] <humphreybc> and she's going to be a perfect test case for this manual :P
[10:07] <godbyk> Okay, we'll have to look into that then.
[10:07] <humphreybc> all i'm going to do is email her the link to www.ubuntu-manual.org and see if she can download it, open it, and actually start reading it where it makes sense
[10:08] <humphreybc> jeezus this bloody android wifi thing is bugging me
[10:08] <humphreybc> i'm fiddling with router settings to see if i can fix it
[10:09] <humphreybc> even though i am sitting right beside the wireless router with 100% signal strength, it still drops it randomly and won't auto reconnect. sometimes it the android will say "no network connection" when in google maps/app store/gmail/facebook/gtalk etc... but the wifi is still connected
[10:09] <humphreybc> so godbyk, do you know what "beacon interval" "RTS/CTS threshold" "fragmentation threshold" and "DTIM" do?
[10:10] <humphreybc> i thought it might have been a problem with authentication so i've changed from WPA2-PSK to WPA-PSK and also tried AES and TKIP but they don't seem to make a difference :S
[10:10] <godbyk> no clue.
[10:10] <humphreybc> i've also installed "wifi fixer" from the app store which apparently says it fixes wireless stuff
[10:11] <godbyk> (well some clue, but not enough that it'd help)
[10:11] <humphreybc> darn
[10:12] <godbyk> brb
[10:16] <godbyk> back
[10:16] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: just saw your reply in the thread on UF
[10:16] <humphreybc> you're probably going to have your hands full with quickshot
[10:17] <humphreybc> and because we don't really have anyone else working on it, and also because it's a higher priority, i'd prefer it if you stuck with quickshot :)
[10:18] <ziroday> humphreybc: what firmware are you using?
[10:20] <godbyk> humphreybc, TommyBrunn: Just had a thought about the quickshot program..
[10:20] <godbyk> for taking shots of just a segment of the screen..
[10:21] <godbyk> if we can start the program up with specific geometry (many X apps have provide command-line options for that), we can just take a full-screen shot and crop it automatically.
[10:22] <humphreybc> that's a good idea, but how does the geometry work? does it go off resolution or percentages?
[10:22] <humphreybc> or are we going to all be running the same res
[10:22] <humphreybc> ziroday: Android 1.6 on an HTC Magic
[10:22] <godbyk> humphreybc: run "xeyes --help"
[10:22] <godbyk> it'll show you the -geometry option.
[10:22] <godbyk> you're going to be running the same res anyway.
[10:23] <godbyk> but the geometry option let's you set the window size and position.
[10:23] <humphreybc> yeah i saw that, 800x600 apparently. 800x600 would look terrible on anything other than 4:3 though?
[10:24] <godbyk> sure, but the graphics will be fine.
[10:24] <godbyk> just the display on the monitor may look bad (if it's stretched)
[10:24] <ziroday> humphreybc: oh, nothing custom?
[10:25] <humphreybc> ziroday: haha nope, i only got this thing a few days ago, don't want to brick it or anything. haven't even looked into installing custom stuff on it
[10:25] <humphreybc> i've seen a lot of people talking about rooting it, but i have no idea how to do that
[10:25] <ziroday> ah, well in that case best answer is to probably ring up HTC. Don't expect anything spectacular however
[10:25] <humphreybc> godbyk: so... what you see on the monitor (ie stretched windows) won't be what the image turns out to be?
[10:25] <godbyk> humphreybc: correct
[10:26] <humphreybc> ziroday, i think changing to AES might have fixed it... not sure. it hasn't dropped in the last 10 minutes which is unusual.
[10:26] <humphreybc> godbyk: aha, i had no idea. that makes sense
[10:26] <ziroday> humphreybc: heh, I know in 2.x the wireless code is meant to be greatly improved, but I've only ever tried it on WEP here.
[10:28] <humphreybc> i wish HTC would hurry the hell up and release 2.xx for the magic
[10:28] <humphreybc> how can you install 2.1 manually?
[10:39] <humphreybc> okay so now we just need to find a good web designer who can take my mockups, improve on them, and then make them into a website
[10:39] <humphreybc> I want to have an actual website working by the end of march for us to test
[10:39] <humphreybc> and on www.ubuntu-manual.org (which i'm buying now btw) I want a countdown timer to the 29th April
[10:39] <humphreybc> on the 29th April it'll go live about 12 hours before Lucid is released
[10:40] <humphreybc> and everyone can download the final manual :P
[10:41] <godbyk> humphreybc: let me know when you've got the domain name purchased, and I'll set up the hosting for it.
[10:42] <humphreybc> sure
[10:42]  * humphreybc wonders what's up with the people flaming me in the thread i posted: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8894175
[10:45] <godbyk> fun times.
[10:45] <godbyk> gotta love the ubuntu forums
[10:45] <humphreybc> lol
[10:45] <humphreybc> i mean what the hell
[10:46] <humphreybc> i have like 28,000 karma and they guy says "maybe linux isn't for you"
[10:46] <humphreybc> sure buddy...
[10:46] <humphreybc> okay i just bought the domain name :)
[10:46] <TommyBrunn> I think it's because you mentioned slicing up the mockup and exporting it to dreamweaver. That just makes any web developer cringe.
[10:48] <humphreybc> how else is one supposed to get nice drop shadows and custom fonts onto a website?
[10:49] <godbyk> custom fonts == bad.
[10:49] <TommyBrunn> Custom fonts is just a no-no. You don't do that, unless you're catering to a very specific niche of people. Rather, you display that font for those who have it, a similar backup for those who don't, and a generic font that everyone has in case the person doesn't have the backup font either.
[10:49] <godbyk> either use @font-face or pick another font.
[10:49] <godbyk> text should be text, damn it.
[10:49] <TommyBrunn> Drop shadows can be made using CSS3 or javascript magic
[10:49] <humphreybc> boo
[10:49] <TommyBrunn> Or using ugly hacks
[10:50] <humphreybc> slicing and importing into dreamweaver or HTML div tags is a much more elegant solution. for the main body text I would use the set fonts, but for stuff like the banner i'd use a sliced image
[10:50] <humphreybc> but hey, i'm not an expert in web site creation
[10:51] <TommyBrunn> No, seriously. It's not an elegant solution at all. Images should be used as a last resort, and from what I've seen of your mockup, very few elements would have to be made using images.
[10:51] <humphreybc> godbyk i've got the domain name, what do you need?
[10:51] <godbyk> I need my web panel to work! :-)
[10:51] <godbyk> You'll have to point the name servers to me.
[10:52] <godbyk> set them to ns1.dreamhost.com, ns2.dreamohost.com, and ns3.dreamhost.com
[10:52] <humphreybc> righto
[10:52] <humphreybc> their control panel hates chrome
[10:56] <humphreybc> apparently it also hates firefox too O.o
[10:57] <humphreybc> maybe it just hates ubuntu
[10:57] <TommyBrunn> Where'd you buy it from
[10:57] <TommyBrunn> ?
[10:57] <humphreybc> aplust.net
[10:57] <humphreybc> aplus.net*
[10:58] <humphreybc> was the cheapst at 9.99USD
[10:58] <humphreybc> it's sort of working but it's very slow
[10:59] <humphreybc> oh progress!
[11:01] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: aplus.net
[11:01] <humphreybc> oh wait
[11:01] <humphreybc> didn't scroll down
[11:01] <humphreybc> :)
[11:01] <humphreybc> godbyk: nameservers should be updated now
[11:01] <godbyk> 'kay.
[11:02] <godbyk> I'll get the site set up whenever http://panel.dreamhost.com works again.
[11:02] <godbyk> (down for maintenance at the moment, apparently.)
[11:02] <godbyk> do you have html for the site?
[11:04] <humphreybc> nope
[11:04] <humphreybc> :)
[11:04] <humphreybc> i'll look for a countdown timer
[11:06] <humphreybc> godbyk, try this: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/385624/
[11:07] <godbyk> countdown timers are pretty easy.
[11:09] <humphreybc> sweet
[11:09] <humphreybc> well if you could just get a countdown timer up and running that looks nice
[11:09] <humphreybc> and maybe have our banner in there too
[11:15] <humphreybc> actually, godbyk, i'll do that for you
[11:15] <humphreybc> and send you the HTML file
[11:16] <godbyk> humphreybc: awesome.
[11:16] <humphreybc> you've got enough to do without writing a silly countdown timer :P
[11:16] <godbyk> I'm currently writing a build script.
[11:16] <godbyk> :-)
[11:16] <humphreybc> oO
[11:16] <humphreybc> coo
[11:16] <humphreybc> cool*
[11:17] <godbyk> humphreybc: can you access https://panel.dreamhost.com/?
[11:17] <humphreybc> your install script is really nice, btw
[11:20] <godbyk> thanks
[11:21] <humphreybc> actually i wonder if it would be cool just to have the countdown
[11:21] <humphreybc> with nothing else
[11:21] <humphreybc> like a viral thing
[11:22] <godbyk> I don't see that being terribly viral. :)
[11:23] <humphreybc> lol true
[11:25] <humphreybc> godbyk, do you know any javascript?
[11:25] <humphreybc> all i want to do is center the text
[11:25] <godbyk> a little bit
[11:25] <godbyk> just wrap the stuff you want centered in "<div style="text-align: center;"> TEXT GOES HERE </div>"
[11:27] <TommyBrunn> No. Just add a css class to the text. That's the semantically correct way to do it. Like:
[11:27] <TommyBrunn> <p class="centered">Text goes here</p>
[11:27] <TommyBrunn> And in the CSS:
[11:27] <TommyBrunn> .centered {
[11:27] <TommyBrunn>     text-align:center;
[11:27] <TommyBrunn> }
[11:27] <TommyBrunn> Sadly I don't think it works too well in internet explorer 6 (though I don't know if we're shooting for IE6 compatibility)
[11:27] <TommyBrunn> Whoa
[11:27] <TommyBrunn> Sorry about the spam
[11:28] <humphreybc> heh
[11:28] <humphreybc> i've got it centered by using
[11:28] <humphreybc> <div id="countbox" style="text-align: center;width: 100%; height: 1px;"></div>
[11:28] <humphreybc> but now i just want to bump it down the screen a bit
[11:28] <TommyBrunn> Use line-height
[11:28] <TommyBrunn> Like line-height:1.5em;
[11:29] <TommyBrunn> Unless you want to move the entire box
[11:29] <humphreybc> move the entire box
[11:29] <TommyBrunn> In which case you'd use margin
[11:29] <godbyk> or add padding/margin on the top
[11:29] <TommyBrunn> top-margin, specifically.
[11:29] <humphreybc> okay
[11:30] <humphreybc> so top-padding: "1.5em"; or something?
[11:30] <TommyBrunn> Use margin rather than padding.
[11:31] <humphreybc> <div id="countbox" margin=20em; style="text-align: center;width: 100%; height: 1px;"></div> ?
[11:32] <humphreybc> sorry it's been forever since i did anything like this and i was never very good at it anyway
[11:33] <godbyk> <div id="countbox" style="text-align: center; top-margin: 20em;"> TEXT GOES HERE </div>
[11:34] <godbyk> (Not sure if it's top-margin or margin-top.)
[11:34] <TommyBrunn> It would be a lot easier if you separated the markup and the styling. So that you have a CSS style sheet that you link to in the markup.
[11:34] <godbyk> (Been quite a while)
[11:34] <TommyBrunn> top-margin
[11:34] <humphreybc> do i really need a CSS style sheet for this?
[11:34] <TommyBrunn> If you're doing more than just a timer, yeah
[11:35] <TommyBrunn> If you're just working on the timer, I guess it doesn't really matter
[11:35] <humphreybc> this is what i've got: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/385640/
[11:35] <humphreybc> but it don't work :)
[11:36] <humphreybc> if i could just put it smack bang in the middle of the screen, both vertically and horizontally
[11:36] <humphreybc> and then maybe have a box around it and a light gray fill to match the website style when we finally reveal the site
[11:36] <humphreybc> then that would be cool
[11:36]  * humphreybc was supposed to watch a movie tonight but alas it's too late
[11:36] <TommyBrunn> Give me 10 minutes.
[11:37] <TommyBrunn> Or maybe 15, to be on the safe side
[11:37] <godbyk> I haven't prettied this up *at all* yet.. but what other info would be helpful to report? http://kevin.godby.org/ubuntu-manual/builds/
[11:37] <humphreybc> Tommy, thanks
[11:37] <humphreybc> awesome godbyk
[11:38] <humphreybc> i don't think you need any more information
[11:38] <humphreybc> so this is a build script that you'll run on your computer?
[11:38] <humphreybc> or server?
[11:38] <godbyk> it's a script I'll run on my computer.
[11:38] <humphreybc> cool
[11:39] <humphreybc> and it automatically puts the compiled PDFs on your server?
[11:39] <godbyk> yep
[11:39] <humphreybc> groovy
[11:39] <humphreybc> so now translators who want to see their work don't have to install all the latex stuff
[11:39] <humphreybc> you can just point them there :)
[11:39] <godbyk> I'll probably set it up on my home server, so I don't have it dragging down the cpu on my desktop system.
[11:40] <godbyk> that's true, I s'pose.
[11:40] <humphreybc> cool
[11:40] <godbyk> I have to figure out how to automated it to run when there is new stuff in bzr.
[11:41] <humphreybc> i'm still waiting for my home server to be reconnected. flatmate came home and moved the router up to his room because he doesn't have wireless.. so i had to buy him a wireless USB stick which hasn't arrived yet
[11:41] <humphreybc> godbyk, how do the contents get translated?
[11:41] <godbyk> what contents?
[11:42] <humphreybc> oh wait nevermind
[11:42] <godbyk> the magic of latex?
[11:42] <humphreybc> they translate the chapter/section headers and latex builds them off that
[11:42] <godbyk> yeppers
[11:42] <humphreybc> forgot for a sec there
[11:42] <humphreybc> is there any language that has been more than 90% translated?
[11:43] <humphreybc> it's a bit depressing reading a danish manual where everything is in english except for the headers :P
[11:44] <TommyBrunn> humphreybc: almost done. Just needs to be vertically centered as well, which is a little more complicated than horizontal centering.
[11:44] <godbyk> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual and click on 'view all languages' at the bottom right
[11:44] <humphreybc> Tommy, cool, thanks :D
[11:44] <godbyk> you can click on the status heading to sort by status
[11:44] <ubuntujenkins> I think english uk and german are the best and spanish
[11:47]  * humphreybc opens his 18th tab in chrome
[11:48] <humphreybc> wow go german
[11:48] <ubuntujenkins> have we got a page for the quickshot branches yet?
[11:49] <humphreybc> not yet
[11:49] <humphreybc> should i create one now?
[11:49] <ubuntujenkins> when you have a moment it would be good, the pyhton is way out of my depth now and I can set up the branches an write the merging script
[11:50] <humphreybc> i'm just setting up the project now
[11:50] <ubuntujenkins> thanks :-)
[11:50] <humphreybc> i'll see if i can make it a subproject of either ubuntu-manual or quickshot
[11:50] <ubuntujenkins> Idealy ubuntu-manual
[11:51] <humphreybc> yeah
[11:51] <humphreybc> that's what i'm going to true
[11:51] <humphreybc> try*
[11:54] <TommyBrunn> humphreybc: All done
[11:54] <humphreybc> sweet!
[11:55] <TommyBrunn> http://www.speedyshare.com/files/21180161/Ubuntu-manual.tar.gz
[11:57] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: nice!
[11:57] <humphreybc> godbyk, see above **
[11:58] <godbyk> got it.
[11:59] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-screenshots
[12:00] <ubuntujenkins> thanks I will starts adding the branches
[12:00] <humphreybc> groovy
[12:00] <humphreybc> so i guess just make each branch the translation abbreviation
[12:00] <humphreybc> like es, ar, du, etc
[12:00] <ubuntujenkins> yes it will be there will be a main as well
[12:00] <godbyk> humphreybc: that works best for me. :)
[12:01] <humphreybc> yeah that's what i thought :P
[12:01] <humphreybc> then the URL for each will be something like https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-screenshots/es ?
[12:02] <ubuntujenkins> ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/main  is main apparently
[12:02] <humphreybc> yeah
[12:02] <humphreybc> well we won't be using main
[12:02] <humphreybc> ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual-screenshots/es etc
[12:03] <humphreybc> you could probably just delete main
[12:03] <ubuntujenkins> I haven't made main yet
[12:03] <ubuntujenkins> which is easier fo compiling lots tranlated versions
[12:04] <ubuntujenkins> stick to codes like es, de, ar but wouldn't getting them all in one go also be good if you wanted to compile lots of them
[12:06] <humphreybc> i suppose yea
[12:09] <humphreybc> oh did anyone think about that idea i had for the progress bar?
[12:10] <TommyBrunn> What idea?
[12:14] <godbyk> humphreybc: I think estimating word count will be too difficult.
[12:14] <godbyk> Probably better off just flagging each section as done or something.
[12:16] <humphreybc> TommyBrunn: I thought it would be neat if we could have a live progress bar of the manual, by taking an export of the current word count, and then estimating what the final word count would be, then working out a percentage
[12:16] <humphreybc> Joey at omgubuntu.co.uk said if we make one he'd put it on his website sidebar permanently, it would be a great way to raise awareness about our project
[12:17] <humphreybc> godbyk: yeah you're probably right. well should I make one now and just update it manually?
[12:17] <godbyk> you can if you'd like.
[12:17] <godbyk> might help motivate those who still have stuff to write.
[12:17] <humphreybc> righto
[12:17] <godbyk> I'm curious as to how close we are to having everything written.
[12:17] <humphreybc> how far through do you think we are?
[12:18] <TommyBrunn> Well you could easily make a progressbar using javascript. The difficult part would be to get the word count and that.
[12:18] <humphreybc> about 60%?
[12:18] <godbyk> (I haven't actually flipped through the manual since before the alpha release, I think!)
[12:18] <humphreybc> hmm
[12:18] <ubuntujenkins> well there is still open offcice ubuntu one and rythambox to go on default apps
[12:18] <humphreybc> i think we've got 6/10 chapters completed, more or less
[12:33] <humphreybc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4394131925/
[12:33] <humphreybc> simple but i think it does the job
[12:33] <godbyk> So do you think we'll pull it off? :)
[12:33] <humphreybc> i'll just change it whenever we make significant improvements :P
[12:33] <godbyk> no need for the ellipses.
[12:33] <humphreybc> godbyk if you could host it on your server at some permanent URL so I can give it to blogs etc
[12:33] <humphreybc> you don't like the ellipses?
[12:34] <godbyk> as soon as they finish dinking around with the panel, I'll set it up.
[12:34] <godbyk> they don't serve any purpose.
[12:34] <godbyk> wow, it does take a while to download 2.5G and install it, doesn't it? :)
[12:34] <humphreybc> kk
[12:34] <humphreybc> yes!
[12:34] <godbyk> (installing TL 2009 on my home server)
[12:35] <humphreybc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4394136221/
[12:35] <godbyk> better.
[12:35] <humphreybc> suggestions for improvements?
[12:35] <godbyk> is that percent bar actually 60%?   Looks closer to 50%.
[12:36] <humphreybc> lol i'm not sure i'll check
[12:36] <humphreybc> it was actually 55, my bad
[12:37] <humphreybc> :D
[12:37] <humphreybc> and godbyk, yeah i think we'll make it
[12:37] <humphreybc> not 100% all translated with localized screenshots
[12:38] <humphreybc> but i think we'll have a decent english manual, about 20 - 30 translated manuals, and perhaps 10 with localized screenshots
[12:38] <humphreybc> the rest with english screenshots till we get around to doing them after lucid
[12:38] <humphreybc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4394140487/
[12:39] <godbyk> better
[12:40] <humphreybc> i'll stick it on our wiki now
[12:40] <humphreybc> front page :P
[12:41] <humphreybc> so when you stick it on your server, email the link to it and i'll send it to joey
[12:42] <humphreybc> how far through the project are we? about halfway, right?
[12:43] <humphreybc> started in january, and we have to finish by the end of april... so that's four months. and it's just gone 1st march here
[12:43] <humphreybc> so we're halfway, and 60% completed
[12:43] <humphreybc> buuut the writing freeze is in 18 days
[12:43] <humphreybc> so we're actually behind schedule
[12:43] <humphreybc> right tomorrow i'm going to do some writing
[12:49] <humphreybc> wow awesome, someone on UF actually created an HTML file and CSS style sheet for our site already
[12:49] <humphreybc> it looks good!
[12:50] <humphreybc> i've invited them to join the project if they like, but if not I might just take what they've done and create the rest of the pages, using his one as a template
[12:53] <godbyk> humphreybc: cool
[12:54] <TommyBrunn> humphreybc: I just saw that. It's pretty well done. The code needs a little work to validate, but it's a pretty good start.
[12:54] <humphreybc> yeah, it looks pretty
[12:54] <humphreybc> i'll fiddle tomorrow and see if i can improve on it, then i'll start work on designing the other pages
[12:54] <humphreybc> i'm pushing it into the branch
[12:55] <humphreybc> feel free to have a play too :)
[12:55] <TommyBrunn> One thing that bugs me is that the logo is taking up almost a third of the viewport. I'd make the space between the logo and the content smaller.
[12:55] <humphreybc> yeah
[12:56] <humphreybc> i'm going to make the logo smaller
[12:56] <humphreybc> and the banner
[12:56] <TommyBrunn> Oh, I just noticed something.
[12:56] <humphreybc> uh huh?
[12:57] <TommyBrunn> Oh, nevermind. The CSS just looked very odd for a bit there, but after giving it some though, it doesn't really matter.
[12:57]  * humphreybc just pushed the website work from UF user
[12:58] <humphreybc> Tommy, it's all in the branch now under /website so if you did want to have some time away from python then you're more than welcome to have a fiddle :)
[12:58] <TommyBrunn> Wee!
[12:58] <humphreybc> haha
[12:58] <humphreybc> and with that i'm off to bed!
[12:58] <TommyBrunn> Night!
[13:01] <thorwil> haier71
[13:01] <thorwil> gnark, major focus fail. not even the right machine!
[13:03] <godbyk> thorwil: lol
[13:03] <godbyk> thorwil: I did that earlier.  Ran 'sudo apt-get install BLAH' on my web server box -- which I have no sudo access to.
[13:03] <godbyk> Hope I didn't piss off any admins.
[13:22] <godbyk> Website is up.. somewhat: http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[13:23] <TommyBrunn> I'm currently working on making the website validate, as well as become slightly easier to work with.
[13:23] <TommyBrunn> Does your web hotel support PHP?
[13:24] <godbyk> TommyBrunn: Yep.
[13:24] <godbyk> It's running PHP 5.
[13:24] <TommyBrunn> Goodie
[13:37] <godbyk> TommyBrunn: we need a cool favicon too. :)
[13:37] <TommyBrunn> I'll leave that to Ben.
[13:38] <TommyBrunn> However, I want to split the site into a few different php files, which can then be joined using $include_once(). That way the header can stay in one file, and all the subpages can just call on that file. However, doing so would require anyone who wants to fiddle with the design to be running a php-enabled server.
[13:39] <TommyBrunn> So it might be best to wait until the design is final.
[13:39] <godbyk> TommyBrunn: Are you still working on the site code?
[13:39] <TommyBrunn> I just pushed the latest revision.
[13:39] <godbyk> Okay.
[13:40] <godbyk> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[13:40] <godbyk> I think we should either move the cover pages image to the right or wrap the covers and the about-the-manual section in a big div so that the features start below that block.
[13:42] <dutchie> o/
[13:42] <dutchie> wwow, you folks set up a website since yesterday morning
[13:44] <godbyk> dutchie: :)
[13:44] <godbyk> well, humphreybc registered a domain name.
[13:44] <godbyk> and I'm hosting it.
[13:45] <godbyk> he posted his site mockups on the ubuntu forums and someone gave him back some html and css.
[13:45] <godbyk> dutchie: I've also been working on writing a build script that generates output like this: http://kevin.godby.org/ubuntu-manual/builds/
[13:45] <godbyk> (I haven't prettied any of it up yet.)
[13:46] <dutchie> why only those 5 languages?
[13:46] <godbyk> Can you think of any more info that should be displayed?
[13:46] <dutchie> er, 6
[13:46] <godbyk> because I'm just testing and don't want to wait for all 40 languages to compile. :-)
[13:46] <dutchie> heh
[13:46] <godbyk> so I just have the script stop after the first half dozen languages.
[13:46] <dutchie> nah, just prettify
[13:46] <godbyk> 'kay.
[14:05] <godbyk> Hey, TommyBrunn.. can you fix whatever is wrong with the footer?
[14:05] <TommyBrunn> godbyk: I just did
[14:05] <TommyBrunn> Check the newest revision
[14:08] <godbyk> TommyBrunn: Much better, thanks!
[14:08] <godbyk> We also need to splice up the Download button so we can replace the text that's on there.
[14:10] <TommyBrunn> godbyk: Yup. I don't have access to Photoshop at the moment, so I can't do it. But it shouldn't be very hard. I'll just add a link and style it to have the button as a background image.
[14:11] <godbyk> TommyBrunn: well, we'll want the button to be able to vary in size.
[14:11] <godbyk> (we're going to translate it, so we don't know how big it'll need to be)
[14:12] <TommyBrunn> Will the website be translated, though?
[14:13] <TommyBrunn> Either way, the best option would probably be to simply make the button a sensible size. No language is going to have a word for "download" that's 130 characters long.
[14:14] <godbyk> TommyBrunn: Probably at some point.
[14:14] <godbyk> It'd be nice if we can get it translated.
[14:17] <TommyBrunn> godbyk: I just had an idea about the download button. I'm just going to fire up my other computer, and see if I can create some magic.
[14:17] <TommyBrunn> Or at least make a functional button
[14:17] <godbyk> TommyBrunn: There are easy ways of doing it.
[14:18] <godbyk> google for resizable css button and you'll find 'em.
[14:18] <godbyk> basically, the edges are graphics and the interior has a background graphic/color.
[14:18] <TommyBrunn> Yeah, I'm going to do something similar to that.
[14:18] <godbyk> the interior can be any size, and the edges remain the same size.
[14:23] <godbyk> dutchie: what's the translation template?
[14:37] <dutchie> godbyk: the ubuntu-manual.pot file
[14:37] <godbyk> ah
[14:38] <godbyk> I just saw an email about it and I hadn't seen an email like that before.
[14:48] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn when you get a moment can you have a look at my branch and my attempt of python. Thanks :-)
[14:50] <TommyBrunn> ubuntujenkins: Alright. How about you sum up what functionality you've added.
[14:54] <ubuntujenkins> TommyBrunn: My branch now installs disper if the user is using nvidia. It detects the users graphics card and makes the necessary window pop up. The resolution is changed on the click of the ok button. and the has you resolution changed correctly window appears.
[14:55] <TommyBrunn> Alright. Sweet. I'll take a look at it as soon as I can. If you feel up to it, you could merge the changes into main yourself.
[14:55] <ubuntujenkins> There is no log out in 15 seconds mechanism as I have no clue how to do it.
[14:56] <dutchie> sleep(15); logout()
[14:56] <dutchie> time.sleep*
[14:56] <dutchie> er, somthing like that
[14:57] <dutchie> time.sleep(seconds)
[14:57] <ubuntujenkins> I can merge them but I would rather you checked it was in your preferred layout I did get #python josh and #ubuntu-app-devel to help. :-)
[14:57] <komsas> dutchie: why some traslated strings was removed from last update?
[14:57] <ubuntujenkins> I don't want to do to much to make your course hard
[14:57] <dutchie> komsas: because the update of translations and translation template were separated, at a guess
[14:57] <dutchie> komsas: unless there was a small change that you missed
[14:58] <ubuntujenkins> I tried time.sleep but it makes the windows grey out. (TommyBrunn)
[14:58] <TommyBrunn> Yeah, that happens when the program goes idle.
[14:58] <TommyBrunn> The only solution I know of requires multithreading, and we absolutely don't want to get involved with that.
[14:59] <ubuntujenkins> we need it so that the user can click the "ok" button to stop them being logged out
[15:01] <komsas> dutchie: before translation template update 600 strings translated, now only ~200.
[15:03] <dutchie> it's been a bit of a while since I updated
[15:03] <komsas> dutchie: sorry not 600, 300
[15:28] <TommyBrunn> What the heck?!
[15:28] <TommyBrunn> I just tried to upload my latest changes to launchpad, but if you check the latest revision, those are not my changes. :S
[15:29] <ubuntujenkins> which branch?
[15:29] <TommyBrunn> main
[15:29] <TommyBrunn> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual/ubuntu-manual/main/revision/343
[15:30] <ubuntujenkins> its the translation stuff in there as well, did you do a pull before you commited?
[15:31] <TommyBrunn> Yeah
[15:31] <TommyBrunn> But the weirdest part is that my original changes aren't even in there.
[15:31] <ubuntujenkins> weird \me asks dutchie if he has just done a merge with the translations?
[15:32] <TommyBrunn> Oh, wait a minute
[15:32] <godbyk> your stuff is there under r342..
[15:32] <TommyBrunn> Now it says I've done two commits in the last 5 minutes
[15:32] <TommyBrunn> Yeah, i just saw that.
[15:32] <godbyk> then you merged with dutchie's translations.
[15:33] <godbyk> http://ubuntu-manual.org/
[15:34] <godbyk> Here's that the build stuff looks like now: http://ubuntu-manual.org/builds/
[15:34] <godbyk> I'm building all the translations as we speak, so that table may be bigger after a bit (when it's done compiling everything).
[15:35] <ubuntujenkins> you know the cover page is wrong on the arabic one right?
[15:35] <ubuntujenkins> looks neat though easy to look to see what my writting looks like
[15:36] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: The Arabic translation failed to compile, so the PDF is all kinds of messed up. :-)
[15:36] <dutchie> maybe you should not show such PDFs
[15:36] <ubuntujenkins> thought that would be the case just thought I would let you konw
[15:37] <godbyk> dutchie: well, this page is more for me and the translators.
[15:37] <godbyk> (mostly me at the moment, so I can see what translations I still need to write code for.)
[15:38] <dutchie> still, not sure what you gain from a PDF which didn't compile properly
[15:38] <godbyk> sometimes it's easier to see where the hangup was by looking at the pdf than the log file.
[15:39] <godbyk> also, it doesn't really hurt anything, does it?
[15:39] <dutchie> suppose not
[15:39] <godbyk> I'm kind of curious to see how much the page count will differ for the various translations.
[15:42] <godbyk> We're up to 47 languages now, apparently.
[15:43] <ubuntujenkins> thats good :-)
[15:43]  * ubuntujenkins looks to see which new ones there are
[15:43] <godbyk> I haven't got all the existing ones to work yet and they just keep translating into new languages! :-)
[15:54] <godbyk> http://ubuntu-manual.org/builds/
[15:54] <godbyk> All the translations should be there now.
[15:54] <ubuntujenkins> nice :)
[16:02]  * issyl0 bzr pull latest revisions
[17:01] <godbyk> dutchie: you around?
[17:01] <godbyk> dutchie: Is there a way I can flag the \date and \frontcover commands so that the translators stop translating them? :)
[17:01] <dutchie> the command itself or its argument?
[17:02] <godbyk> The command itself.
[17:02] <dutchie> If you put a % TRANSLATORS: comment in, it'll show up when they translators translate
[17:02] <dutchie> % TRANSLATORS: don't translate the command \date
[17:02] <godbyk> On the same line or above/below?
[17:02] <dutchie> above or below I think
[17:02] <dutchie> same line might work
[17:03] <godbyk> okay
[17:04] <godbyk> Both the Greek and Spanish translations had that problem.
[17:04] <godbyk> (Trying to figure out which translations I need to write code for and which are just not compiling due to typos.)
[17:04] <dutchie> sounds fun
[17:04]  * dutchie is watching his team be denied the League Cup
[17:04] <dutchie> stupid Manchester United
[17:04] <godbyk> lol
[17:05] <dutchie> vidic should have gone off 5 minutes in
[18:05] <godbyk> Fixed a few translations: http://ubuntu-manual.org/builds/
[18:05] <godbyk> Those that are failing now are due to things I need to code up.
[18:05] <ubuntujenkins> thansk so much for that link you haev solved my problem :-)
[18:06] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what problem was that?
[18:06] <ubuntujenkins> I needed the full names of two language codes
[18:06] <godbyk> ah.
[18:06] <godbyk> what for?
[18:06] <godbyk> also that's only a list of the languages we're currently translating.. definitely not a complete list.
[18:07] <ubuntujenkins> I am making the script to merge the  47 odd branches of screenshots into a main screenshots branch
[18:07] <godbyk> aha
[18:20]  * ubuntujenkins installs all the ubuntu language packs
[23:25] <TommyBrunn> godbyk: Are you there?
[23:25] <TommyBrunn> Ah, nevermind. Good night everyone