[00:00] <zetheroo> auto browse?
[00:00] <seb128>  /apps/nautilus/preferences/exit_with_last_window
[00:00] <seb128> in gconf-editor
[00:00] <zetheroo> Open nautilus on removeable media insert.
[00:00] <zetheroo> ok
[00:01] <zetheroo> ah ok
[00:01] <zetheroo> it's set to true atm
[00:01] <seb128> right
[00:01] <seb128> it's false in lucid
[00:01] <zetheroo> cool
[00:01] <seb128> which is what you want for your case
[00:02] <zetheroo> so i should be able to turn desktop off again and have nautilus running nevertheless
[00:02] <seb128> yes
[00:02] <seb128> that's what the key is about
[00:02] <seb128> for those like you who don't want their desktop to be useful ;-)
[00:02] <zetheroo> haha
[00:02] <zetheroo> I use a screenlet for that ;)
[00:03] <zetheroo> all my "Desktop" folders and files are accessible from a widget-like screenlet ...
[00:03] <zetheroo> hmmm
[00:03] <zetheroo> maybe I have to reboot to make that change take effect!?
[00:04] <seb128> you have to run nautilus
[00:04] <seb128> it's probably not running right now
[00:04] <mtx_init> im trying to sign the conduct, but when I do gpg --fingerprint, I get nothing, any ideas?
[00:05] <zetheroo> oh so I still have to have another nautilus window open ...
[00:05] <zetheroo> hmm ... I thought that option I changed meant I didn't have to have a browser window open all the time ..
[00:06] <persia> mtx_init: This isn't the right channel, but https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnuPrivacyGuardHowto probably has the documentation you need.  Ask in #ubuntu if you get stuck.
[00:07] <seb128> zetheroo, nautilus is being run on session start and did exit because you didn't have the key set
[00:07] <mtx_init> I was told to ask here, but ok
[00:07] <seb128> zetheroo, it will not exit next login
[00:07] <persia> mtx_init: By whom?
[00:07] <persia> mtx_init: And where?
[00:07] <mtx_init> bdmurray:
[00:07] <seb128> zetheroo, you can run it manually too for this time though
[00:07] <zetheroo> ah i see
[00:07] <zetheroo> ok
[00:07] <zetheroo> thanks a million
[00:07] <seb128> np
[00:07] <hggdh> mtx_init: OK
[00:07] <mtx_init> But il ask in #ubuntu, thanks for your help
[00:07] <ddecator> mtx_init, i can find you the wiki page a sec...
[00:08] <hggdh> mtx_init: did you create a GPG key for you?
[00:08] <persia> mtx_init: Well, given some context, here might not be wrong, but really the wiki page I linked should contain wverything you need.
[00:09] <mtx_init> well I was just following the instructions on the code of conduct page.   Which seemed to omply the fingerprint was the first step
[00:09] <bdmurray> He is trying to sign the CoC to join the Bug Squad so it seemed reasonable to me that someone here could help.
[00:09] <hggdh> yes
[00:09] <hggdh> mtx_init: again: do you have a GPG key?
[00:09] <mtx_init> nope, but im reading the linked page now
[00:10] <Hillshum> If lucid hangs on me as it logs in, what package should I report a bug against?
[00:10] <persia> Hillshum: That's tricky: you'd want to try to identify where it hangs.
[00:10] <Hillshum> persia: How might I go about that?
[00:11] <persia> Hillshum: After an unsuccessful boot, try booting a liveCD and see if you can mount the unsuccessful boot and recover anything from /var/log/syslog or similar.
[00:11] <persia> bdmurray: Indeed: it the point of signing the CoC is to join bugsquad, this is the right place :)
[00:16] <mtx_init> It claims it cannot import the OpenPGP key
[00:18] <ddecator> mtx_init, at what step?
[00:18] <mtx_init> after I copy the fingerprint and add it in
[00:18] <mtx_init> to the website
[00:19] <hggdh> mtx_init: did you send your public key to the Ubuntu keyserver?
[00:20] <mtx_init> i guess not.
[00:20] <hggdh> mtx_init: heh. So do I ;-)
[00:21] <mtx_init> No offence but this seems overly burdensome and the documentation is severally fragmented.
[00:22] <hggdh> perhaps we should clarify it -- I am starting to agree
[00:22] <crimsun> plars: RE: #528524, speaker-test accepts an -f parameter. That should help narrow the scope of affected apps.
[00:23] <crimsun> plars: (sorry, would have responded sooner, but $dayjob blocks access)
[00:23] <ddecator> hggdh, maybe have basic instructions included on the bugsquad wiki where it says that you have to sign the CoC? that way people won't have to hunt down the complicated directions
[00:24] <LimCore> or make a screencast
[00:24] <hggdh> ddecator: this is one place, yes. But the best would be at LP itself
[00:24] <ddecator> hggdh, true
[00:25] <mtx_init> thanks guys for your help.
[00:25] <ddecator> mtx_init, no problem =)
[00:25] <ddecator> we're always happy to help anyone interested in helping with bugs ;)
[00:29] <Hillshum> persia: syslog shows  nothing I can recognize
[00:29] <hggdh> LimCore: I am be an exception, but I never watch screencasts ;-)
[00:29] <ddecator> hm, speaking of bugs, anyone willing to give me information on how to handle a "failed to install" bug? (such as bug 529136 )
[00:29] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 529136 in firefox (Ubuntu) "package firefox 3.6.2~hg20100226r33622+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1~karmic failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2 (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529136
[00:30] <crimsun> plars: another test (for GSt) would be: gst-launch playbin uri=file:////usr/share/sounds/ubuntu/stereo/service-login.ogg
[00:31] <LimCore> interesting talk at #ubuntu-hardened
[00:31] <LimCore> is it possible to own your ubuntu desktop, even if you try really hard to protect self
[00:32] <LimCore> so far I would say that yes
[00:32] <LimCore> if you will find a window where an unpatched exploit in common app exists, even extra security might not help
[00:33] <crimsun> that's trivial, really. You have physical access to your machine, at which point everything is game over.
[00:34] <LimCore> hmm? no phisical access
[00:35] <mtx_init> Is it possible to delete submitted bugs?
[00:35] <crimsun> no, but you can mark the status Invalid
[00:35] <mtx_init> But they will see be in public view?
[00:36] <crimsun> yes, unless you mark [them] private
[00:36] <mtx_init> can you do that after I have submited them.  because they were real bugs but nobody responsed to them, making me look like an idiot.
[00:36] <crimsun> hmm? Which bugs?
[00:37] <mtx_init> sent you a pm
[00:37] <ddecator> mtx_init, just because nobody responds doesn't mean you did something wrong. unfortunately, there are way more reports than we can handle, so some of the slip by
[00:38] <mtx_init> well can I get rid of it then?
[00:38] <mtx_init> Because they make the submitter look like an incompetent.
[00:40] <plars> crimsun: I'll try that, thanks
[00:40] <ddecator> you could mark your own bugs as invalid, but if they are real bugs then we would like it if they stayed open so we can hopefully look at them at some point. and trust us, people from all different specialties submit bugs, and we never see any of them as incompetent =)
[00:40] <crimsun> mtx_init: your comment implies that the symptom is caused by a dependency, so I could mark it invalid
[00:40] <mtx_init> well I just dont want then tied to my name anymore
[00:41] <mtx_init> It was a mistake to submit it
[00:41] <crimsun> more useful, I could triage it to affect the other dependency
[00:41] <crimsun> mtx_init: no one's perfect
[00:41] <ddecator> mtx_init, if you're unsure, then submitting is better than leaving a bug unknown, so never hesitate
[00:41] <mtx_init> crimsun: yeah that excuse doesnt get people jobs.
[00:42] <LimCore> hggdh: I can probalby eventually take over your box
[00:42] <jcastro> I file dumb bugs all the time!
[00:42] <crimsun> mtx_init: I don't know of an instance where it has prevented a competent person from being hired.
[00:42] <BUGabundo> I don't even understand half the bugs I file .S
[00:43] <LimCore> hggdh: we have a way to stop many vectors of such an attack, and all what is needed is some information for the end users to use such countermesure. Does it sound like something that could be swiftly done?for Ubuntu? All actuall software is in place, only some GUI/info/docs
[00:43] <mtx_init> crimsun: the internet is filled with people who have been denied jobs due to their foss submissions
[00:43] <mtx_init> ive read tons of stories on it
[00:43] <mtx_init> over the years
[00:43] <crimsun> mtx_init: FUD?
[00:43] <mtx_init> I dont know what that means
[00:44] <crimsun> would you really want to work for a place that would deny you employment based on FOSS submissions?
[00:44] <mtx_init> I live in ny, thats how the games played here
[00:44] <mtx_init> we arent as lax as the west coast.
[00:44] <hggdh> LimCore: what are you talking about?
[00:44] <ddecator> i've never heard of that in chicago though...
[00:45] <LimCore> hggdh: attacke based on getting an exploited desktop application to emulate for example gsudo window or something - can be stoped by making sure that instead of trusing gsudo users would do alt+ctrl+f1 and alt+sysrq+k
[00:45] <mtx_init> Ny firms are very high strung.  Ive seen people fired for making common spelling mistakes in comments.
[00:46] <hggdh> LimCore: and how would one get an exploited appl in?
[00:46] <crimsun> mtx_init: you're free to mark that bug private and invalid
[00:46] <LimCore> hggdh: just wait untill some arbitrary code execution is discovered. Happened before, will eventually happen again. In example in some jpeg viewer or some lib to process XML or stuff
[00:47] <persia> Can we get back to bug discussions?
[00:47] <ddecator> yes please...
[00:54] <Hillshum> Can I use apport-collect offline somehow?
[00:55] <persia> Hillshum: Not trivially, no.  You can use apport-retrace offline though.
[00:56] <crimsun> hmm? Doesn't --save (or apport-cli) accomplish that??
[00:56] <Hillshum> How should I gather information for my bug then? The system in question won't let me log in to gnome
[00:57] <persia> crimsun: Oh, excellent point.  apport-cli is the tool to use for this (apport-collect requires access to LP)
[01:15] <Hillshum> So how do I get apport to upload a given apport file to a given bug?
[03:46] <nigelb> cjohnston: you around?
[03:58] <cjohnston> ?
[03:58] <nigelb> cjohnston: got lucid working?
[03:59] <cjohnston> ya
[03:59] <nigelb> cjohnston: can you test something for me? (i can close a bug if it works)
[03:59] <cjohnston> k
[04:00] <nigelb> cjohnston: open rhythmbox and add this as podcast http://noagenda.podshow.com/feed
[04:00] <nigelb> see if it works :)
[04:01] <cjohnston> it added and is downloading
[04:01] <nigelb> well, then it works :)
[04:01] <nigelb> thank you cjohnston :)
[04:01]  * nigelb hands cjohnston a toffee
[04:25] <ddecator> alright, so i checked the wikis and didn't see anything, but is there a specific procedure for "failed to install/upgrade" bugs?
[04:26] <persia> ddecator: I usually verify locally on the target release, then verify on up-to-date development release as a first stage.
[04:26] <persia> I then sometimes try using aptitude instead of apt-get (or vice-versa) to differentiate between resolver bugs and package bugs.
[04:27] <ddecator> persia, ok. and if it cannot be reproduced locally?
[04:27] <micahg> ddecator: you need to check the log to see what failed
[04:28] <ddecator> micahg, which log? (for example, i'm looking at bug 529136 )
[04:28] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 529136 in firefox (Ubuntu) "package firefox 3.6.2~hg20100226r33622+nobinonly-0ubuntu1~umd1~karmic failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2 (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529136
[04:28] <persia> If you can't reproduce it locally, even with a system that matches the submitters system to the best of your ability (including locale, etc.) you get to dig through the logs.  Almost invariably if it can't be reproduced it comes from either 1) the submitter's system having a local change or non-repo package, or 2) The submitter7s system having leftover cruft from being continuously upgraded rather than havign a recent clean install.
[04:29] <persia> In the former case, identify the issue, and mark invalid.  In the latter case, identify the upgrade path, and use that to help replicate locally.
[04:32] <ddecator> is it the dpkgterminallog.txt file i should look into?
[04:32] <micahg> yes
[04:32]  * micahg guesses it was a bad download
[04:32] <ddecator> ok. and i'm assuming it's important to test on the same architecture as the reporter as well?
[04:35] <ddecator> why do you think that micahg ? i'm trying to make sense of the log...all i see is the error with the profiles for ff 3.5
[04:39] <nigelb> ugh, I'm so tired of closing old reports.  But I guess thats the easiest way to get to the new reports.
[04:39] <ddecator> it looks like the firefox package couldn't install because of "update-alternatives: error: alternative path /usr/bin/firefox doesn't exist." which caused dependencies to not be met?
[04:39] <ddecator> nigelb, i've been working on some of the old firefox ones, most of them aren't even responding..
[04:40] <nigelb> ddecator: its good they dont respond, you get to close them ;)
[04:40] <micahg> ddecator: not sure...I guess grabbing the 0223 daily of 3.6 in a karmic vm and try installing the 0226 packages
[04:40] <micahg> I agree with persia on this one...
[04:40] <micahg> oh wait...why is firefox an alternative
[04:41] <ddecator> it looks like they are using the daily ppa if that makes a difference
[04:41] <persia> ddecator: That's a bug in the firefox maintainer scripts: at some point in history handling changed, and there isn't an old snippet to deal with it.
[04:41] <persia> Or a third party repo
[04:41]  * persia wishes PPAs would just go away
[04:42] <micahg> persia: we don't offer it through alternatives
[04:42] <ddecator> idk about that, i like being able to use ff 3.7 ;)
[04:42] <ddecator> so possibly an usupported ppa?
[04:42] <ddecator> unsupported*
[04:42] <persia> micahg: Not now, but was it *ever* offered that way?  It may be that you need a snippet to handle the very old case.
[04:43] <micahg> persia: if you remember where that was so I have a reference, I'd be happy to look into it
[04:43] <micahg> ddecator: I enabled submission from the PPAs so we can catch more bugs in the dailies
[04:43] <ddecator> micahg, bug submission?
[04:43] <micahg> ddecator: yes
[04:44] <ddecator> micahg, oh, that'll be nice
[04:44] <micahg> for firefox 3.6 pecifically
[04:44] <micahg> so we can fix stuff for lucid
[04:44] <ddecator> good call. is there a package that a bug should be assigned to if it's a daily build?
[04:44] <nigelb> can someone who can read stack traces teach me how to read bug 458660
[04:44] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 458660 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu) "rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in PyObject_ClearWeakRefs() (affects: 1)" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/458660
[04:44] <micahg> ddecator: no, it's already tagged
[04:45] <ddecator> micahg, good deal
[04:45] <micahg> ddecator: you should see the PPA tag on those bugs
[04:45] <persia> micahg: I have no memory of it, and haven't used firefox since feisty.  You'd have to check revision history, etc.
[04:45] <micahg> persia: I'll ask asac in teh morning
[04:45] <ddecator> micahg, yah i saw those, i just didn't realize you could use them for that
[04:45] <persia> May predate his coordination of it also, but sure :)
[04:47] <ddecator> oh fun, this log is in spanish...
[04:48] <persia> dpkg logs shouldn't be that language-specific.
[04:48] <ddecator> i can still find it, just looks odd to me, haha
[04:48] <persia> Most of the strings will be repeats, so you can just look them up in the .po files with grep.
[04:49] <ddecator> micahg, this one has the same -alternatives error
[04:50] <ddecator> lets go for the trifecta...
[04:51] <ddecator> and we're 3/3
[04:52] <ddecator> 2 of which are daily, 1 is not...
[04:54] <micahg> ddecator: I add the tag in the apport hook
[04:54] <persia> micahg: Maybe just the daily-builds uses alternatives?
[04:54] <micahg> persia: they don
[04:54] <ddecator> persia, one isn't daily
[04:54] <micahg> t'
[04:55] <micahg> what's the one that isn't
[04:55] <ddecator> let me find it..
[04:55] <ddecator> bug 524947
[04:55] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 524947 in firefox (Ubuntu) "tried installing firefox-3.6 after adding mozillateam/firefox-stable PPA :: package firefox 3.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu4~mfs~karmic1 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 2 (affects: 2)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/524947
[04:55] <persia> Were it one bug about alternatives, I'd call it local.  Three makes me suspicious that something more complicated is involved.
[04:56] <ddecator> that's why i asked, i wanted to check all three, but i didn't think they'd all be related...
[04:57] <persia> Looking at the logs, that's clearly a bug in the maintainer scripts for the PPA firefox.
[04:57] <micahg> persia: my guess is they installed some third party firefox at some point like ubuntuzilla
[04:57] <ddecator> then switched to the mozilla team ppa?
[04:57] <micahg> ddecator: yes
[04:58] <ddecator> micahg, want me to ask the reporters?
[04:58] <micahg> ddecator: ask 1
[04:58] <ddecator> i'll ask that one since he says specifically that the used the mozilla team ppa...
[04:58] <micahg> ddecator: or better see if you can find someone who uses ubuntuzilla
[04:58] <persia> micahg: I'd agree except that the error is coming from `firefox.postinst configure 3.6+nobinonly-0ubuntu4~mfs~karmic1`
[04:59] <ddecator> micahg, ah, i can refer back to that person from that other bug...
[04:59] <ddecator> unless persia is on to something
[04:59] <micahg> persia: right, but if they removed ubuntuzilla and the only firefox was the one from our package, that error would make sense
[04:59] <persia> micahg: Do you know if the daily PPA maintainer scripts are available somewhere without downloading the package?
[04:59]  * micahg check ubuntuzilla
[04:59] <micahg> persia: it's from the .head repo
[05:00]  * persia needs a URL
[05:00]  * micahg knows there's nothing in there
[05:00] <micahg> persia: lp:firefox/3.6
[05:00]  * persia didn't want to download it that way either, and tries other things
[05:00] <micahg> persia: http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/ubuntuzilla/index.php?title=Main_Page#Repository_contents_and_package_behavior
[05:00] <micahg> it does install and alernative
[05:01]  * persia checks the maintainer scripts documentation again
[05:01] <persia> Aha!  So it's firefox.prerm upgrade ... that's failing.
[05:02]  * micahg wonders how that got in tehre...
[05:03] <persia> micahg: So if you want to fix this with Ubuntu packages, just have firefox.prerm failed-upgrade attempt to remove alternatives if they exist.
[05:03] <persia> micahg: From the ubuntuzilla alternatives handling.
[05:03] <persia> http://women.debian.org/wiki/English/MaintainerScripts
[05:03] <persia> see "Upgrading"
[05:04] <micahg> I guess we still install the alternative...
[05:05] <persia> heh.
[05:06] <persia> Anyway, by using the docs at the Debian/women wiki, and checking the arguments, the issue can be solved.
[05:06] <persia> In the specific case of 524947, they seem to be upgrading from "3.6_3.6+karmic" which doesn't look like your version strings at all.
[05:07] <micahg> persia: that was a special package that asac made
[05:08] <micahg> oh, maybe not
[05:08] <persia> Oh.  Then the user in 524947 doesn't appear to have used out-of-repo sources aside from the PPA, based on the logs.
[05:08] <persia> Well, check the logs.  The upgrade path for the past 3-4 updates of firefox is listed there.
[05:09]  * ddecator wishes he had a better idea of what is going on
[05:09]  * micahg check the 3.5 prerm
[05:09] <persia> ddecator: So, when a package installs, it goes through several steps.  There are scripts in the package that can run before or after either install or removal, and take various arguments (see the page I linked).
[05:10] <micahg> there is none...
[05:10] <persia> ddecator: When a package fails to install or upgrade, this is usually a bug in the maintainer scripts, although it can also be file conflicts with other pacakges, etc.
[05:10] <persia> micahg: You checked the binary, not just the source?
[05:10] <persia> CDBS can stuff a lot of things in maintainer scripts.
[05:10]  * micahg checks
[05:11] <ddecator> ok, that makes sense...
[05:11] <persia> ddecator: So the trick is to try to replicate the issue, and figure out why it's failing (the update-alternative call has to be somewhere, for instance).
[05:12] <ddecator> ok
[05:12] <micahg> no
[05:12] <persia> Then track down which package needs to be tweaked.  Luckily, all the maintainer scripts take a version argument, so developers can clean up when there is an issue.
[05:12] <ddecator> ok, i get the general idea =)
[05:13] <persia> micahg: Based on that, the alternatives implementation may come from somewhere else.  You might test to see if an alternative is defined, and if so, remove it, and if not, ignore it.
[05:13] <micahg> it's there...I was looking at the wrong file :/
[05:14] <ddecator> if there is a place where install logs are temporarily stored, i can check mine from my daily updates
[05:15] <micahg> ah, the binary was firefox-3.5 before, so if the prerm for 3.6 is tried, it'll fail
[05:15] <persia> micahg: Excellent.  It's always easier when the bug can be found, rather than trying to work around random 3rd party packages.
[05:15] <persia> micahg: So, based on the docs, just add a prerm for 3.6 that cleans up from a failed 3.5 prerm if needed.
[05:17]  * micahg is confused
[05:18] <micahg> it says the postinst script is failing on some
[05:19] <micahg> something has got to be wrong
[05:20] <ddecator> any testing you want me to do or questions we need answered by the reporters?
[05:21] <persia> ddecator: When a developer (e.g. micahg) gets all excited about a bug, it's usually better to just hand off to them, and go find a new bug.  Acting as a proxy for contacting the reporters usually loses information (through no fault of the proxy, but due to the nature of language processing in human brains).
[05:22] <ddecator> persia, fair enough, i'll just do my homework then and stick around in case i can help with anything, but i'll plan on letting micahg take care of it from here
[05:23]  * micahg is very confused
[05:23] <persia> ddecator: When acting in the bugsquad role, the key is to make sure the developer has enough information to begin debugging.  I think we reached that point :)
[05:24] <ddecator> persia, very true. i'll leave them alone rather than mark them as dupes and triage them or anything
[05:25] <micahg> it would seem a simple file check is necessary, but that doesn't seem right either
[05:26] <micahg> ddecator: remember bug 526966
[05:26] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 526966 in firefox (Ubuntu) "Firefox start page not into English? (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/526966
[05:26] <ddecator> micahg, yah, i saw his response...
[05:27] <ddecator> do you think xp was his only os?
[05:30] <phantomgraph> Allow persia, remember me? =)
[05:31] <persia> It has been a while.
[05:31] <phantomgraph> *nods
[05:31] <phantomgraph> Well I figured it out all on my own.. sort of...
[05:32] <phantomgraph> if you recall the latest cups update nuked all my windows printers from my share on 9.1
[05:33] <persia> Right.
[05:35] <phantomgraph> turns out it was some windows problem. I got one of those invisible updates that Micky soft likes to do and poof, they started to see the printer on the my Ubuntu box again. Of course I had to set up a new printer link, but that's easy enough...
[05:36] <persia> Oh, excellent!
[05:36] <persia> That was a very mysterious bug, and I feared it wouldn't get solved.
[05:36] <phantomgraph> (The new link had to be set up on the windows machines)
[05:36] <persia> Knowing that MS already identified it and sent out a patch makes it easier.
[05:37] <persia> Could you update your bug with your findings (please reference the MS fix that makes it work for others who cherrypick hotfixes), and set it to "Invalid"?
[05:37] <phantomgraph> I think it was just a bug in one of the patches MS sent out.
[05:37] <ddecator> micahg, want me to close that report?
[05:38] <phantomgraph> I'm not sure how to do that as I was still working on opening a bug report when MS fixed it.
[05:38] <micahg> ddecator: sure
[05:39] <persia> phantomgraph: So the bug never got filed in LP?
[05:39] <phantomgraph> As far as I can tell the solution is this. On the MS machine delete the old link to the Ubuntu printer,  give it a couple of minutes, then go and add the printer again after the update.  Simple as pie.
[05:40] <phantomgraph> Nope persia, I was still gathering data and testing to see if it was something I did to the systems...
[05:43] <phantomgraph> One thing I can say for certain, the only update on the Ubuntu box since the 'break' was Open Office, and I doubt highly that OO would fix a printer share problem... ;>
[05:43] <persia> phantomgraph: OK.  In that case, there's nothing to do with LP.  No point filing a bug we already know to both 1) not be valid for Ubuntu and 2) be already fixed by MS.
[05:43] <persia> phantomgraph: Thanks for coming back to share your success.
[05:45] <phantomgraph> No problem persia, just wanted to drop back in and let you know what I've found out.
[05:45] <phantomgraph> Thanks much for all your suggestions!
[07:05] <kermiac> can anyone confirm bug 529852 is default/ expected behaviour? I can confirm ALT + "t" does open a terminal window in lucid
[07:06] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 529852 in ubuntu "[Lucid] <Alt>T opens up terminal, even though I haven't assigned it anywhere (affects: 1)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529852
[07:11] <persia> It just makes a terminal flash for me (and not even the default terminal, but just a terminal window in another program I have open)
[07:12] <kermiac> hmm... interesting
[07:12] <persia> In a VM I recently booted with ubuntu netbook (last week's image), it doesn't do anythig at all.
[07:13] <kermiac> on a fully up-to-date lucid (alpha 3) I can reproduce it on 2 different machines
[07:13] <kermiac> I thought in metacity it's supposed to be CTRL+ALT+T
[07:14] <kermiac> I should be able to find out more info in the metacity changelogs?
[07:15] <kermiac> hmmm.... someone else in ubuntu+1 confirmed it does the same thing
[07:22] <persia> I suspect it's highly flavour-dependent, and I don't have Ubuntu Desktop handy (well, my base install was hacked from Ubuntu Desktop at one point, kinda, but still)
[07:22] <kermiac> http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/m/metacity/metacity_2.28.1-0ubuntu2/changelog says CTRL+ALT+T
[07:22] <kermiac> but someone in +1 says compiz is the same for them
[07:33] <kermiac> does xorg handle shortcut keys or something else?
[07:33] <kermiac> ^^ default shortcut keys
[07:33] <vish> kermiac: same here , alt + t opens terminal
[07:35] <kermiac> hey vish... can you please check that it is set in system --> Preferences --> keyboard shortcuts --> Desktop --> Run a terminal
[07:35] <vish> kermiac: hehe , was just replying that in +1 ;)
[07:36] <vish> it is mapped as ctrl+alt+t , but that does nothing
[07:36] <vish> using compiz, btw
[07:36] <kermiac> lol, guess that's what happens when I'm asking the same thing in 2 chans
[07:37] <kermiac> ok, so that's yet another diff behaviour
[07:37] <kermiac> being mapped to CTRL+ALT+T
[07:37] <vish> kermiac: any idea , what the old shortcut was?
[07:38]  * kermiac looks on the karmic box
[07:38] <kermiac> looks like it is set to diabled by default in karmic
[07:39] <vish> kermiac: probably the patch wasnt good? [but i doubt that , noting pitti has cherry-picked it]
[07:41]  * vish brb , testing a different nautilus bug
[07:58] <Zus> any one use irc on pidgin?
[08:05] <AtomicSpark> test
[08:05] <AtomicSpark> wonderful
[08:06] <Zus1> test
[08:06] <Zus1> I can't see the main window is too big
[08:06] <micahg> Zus1: yes
[08:07] <Zus1> the other irc channel im in with pidgin is fine
[08:08] <micahg> Zus1: you can drag the bar between the nicks and the channel
[08:08] <Zus1> in fact the other 2 windows are displayed correctly   except thihe irc channels
[08:09] <Zus1> micahg:  I can drag the vertical bar yes, not the horizontal one  between where I type  and where I read ...
[08:10] <micahg> Zus1: close the channel and rejoin
[08:11] <Zus1> same results
[08:12] <Zus1> lol now all my irc chats are all the same.. well
[08:12] <Zus1> no biggie I will use x chat...
[08:12] <micahg> Zus1: screenshot?
[08:13] <Zus1> yep I got  one of each window , h
[08:13] <Zus1> how can I send it to you?
[08:13] <micahg> Zus1: my nick at ubuntu dot com
[08:16] <Zus1> micahg:  I sent it
[08:41] <BUGabundo_remote> bom d|a
[08:57] <kermiac> vish, you still around?
[08:57] <vish> yup
[08:58] <kermiac> can you please check to see if you think bug 529852 needs anything further?
[08:58] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 529852 in compiz (Ubuntu) "<Alt>T opens up terminal, even though I haven't assigned it anywhere (affects: 2)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/529852
[08:58] <kermiac> else I will set to triaged
[08:59] <seb128> can you tell pitti about this one?
[08:59] <seb128> he's on #u-d
[08:59] <kermiac> seb128: yes, we were discussing it earlier
[09:00] <kermiac> in #u-d
[09:00] <seb128> hum, and he didn't manage to help you with that?
[09:00] <seb128> I would think it's due to a change he did
[09:01] <kermiac> we worked through a few gconf settings (as outlined in the bug report) but they wouldn't stick after session restart
[09:01] <kermiac> yes, that's why I went looking to check with pitti as I noticed it was his change
[09:02] <seb128> hum and he didn't want to look at it?
[09:02] <seb128> not sure why you need other people to help you triage it now
[09:02] <seb128> it's obvious enough that pitti should be able to look at it no?
[09:02] <kermiac> just making sure I didn't miss anything. I think it's triaged... just simply double-checking I didn't miss anything
[09:03] <seb128> I don't think there is too much detail needed
[09:03] <seb128> the change is clear and the bug title too
[09:03] <seb128> did you ask pitti if the bug should be assigned to him too?
[09:03] <kermiac> no, I can ask him now though
[09:04] <seb128> would be useful
[09:04] <seb128> thanks
[09:04] <kermiac> np seb128 :)
[13:06]  * cjohnston is tired of all this membership spam
[13:07] <persia> hrm?
[13:07] <cjohnston> all the people sending the ML, I want to join or I want to renew
[13:08] <nigelb> cjohnston: its only fair
[13:08] <persia> OH.
[13:08] <cjohnston> nigelb: shaddup
[13:08] <persia> The renewals stuff should go away soon.
[13:08] <nigelb> (after you spamming classroom team with all the classbot spam)
[13:09] <cjohnston> thats not my fault
[13:09] <persia> And the way to deal with the add requests is to review some of them.
[13:09] <persia> Also be nice to folks :)
[13:09] <cjohnston> I told nhandler...
[13:09] <nigelb> cjohnston: well, we bit our tongues then.  so just hold on.
[13:09] <nigelb> its nice to see how many people are actually interested :)
[13:10] <cjohnston> nigelb: classroom spam should be fixed
[13:10] <nigelb> nah
[13:10] <cjohnston> i hope
[13:10] <nigelb> I still get, I dont complain though
[13:10]  * nigelb is looking for some bugs to fix to ease his bruised confidence
[13:10] <cjohnston> tell nhandler
[13:10] <cjohnston> uh oh
[13:10] <cjohnston> what happened?
[13:11] <cjohnston> you can fix some clasbot bugs
[13:11] <nigelb> no thanks.
[13:19] <bhuvi> i cannot file bugs in launchpad anyone please help me out i get launchpad time out error when ever i press the submit bug report button
[13:26] <hggdh> BTW, for what is worth, I *have* been revieweing the renewal requests.
[13:26] <nigelb> morning hggdh :)
[13:26] <hggdh> morning nigelb
[13:26] <hggdh> morning/afternoon/evening all
[13:26] <nigelb> its kinda evening ;)
[13:27] <hggdh> there you go. It is kinda morning here
[15:20] <easy> does anybody deal with 10.04 bugs in here?
[15:20] <nigelb> easy: yes, we deal with all bugs
[15:21] <easy> ahhh, (first time user here) I have a login bug, but don't know where to report or how
[15:22] <nigelb> can you describe your problem?
[15:23] <easy> it's where i type in my user name and password, and when i hit enter, it drops back to the login window.  But if I use the mouse to click, it works
[15:24] <greg-g> easy: I would report the bug against "gdm" right now (you're using Ubuntu, not Kubuntu, right?). You can do so here: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+filebug
[15:24] <seb128> easy, try uninstalling plymouth
[15:24] <easy> yes, ubuntu
[15:24] <seb128> there is a zillion bugs about vt conflict making xorg crash on enter
[15:24] <seb128> due to it
[15:24] <seb128> no need to open a new one if that fixes your issue
[15:25] <greg-g> heh
[15:26] <nigelb> hehe
[15:27] <easy> alright, many thanks everybody
[15:30] <BUGabundo_remote> removing a package isn't a fix, it's a workaround
[15:31] <nigelb> but it narrows down the bug
[15:31] <nigelb> (and there is already an open bug for this issue)
[15:32] <greg-g> BUGabundo_remote: no one said it was a fix, just that it confirms what the issue is.
[15:32] <BUGabundo_remote> (2010-03-02 15:24:53) seb128: no need to open a new one if that *fixes* your issue
[15:32] <greg-g> right, but that fixes the issue, not that the bug is fixed
[15:33] <greg-g> he is saying that it confirms what the issue is, and it is being worked on
[15:36] <seb128> BUGabundo_remote, right, that fixes the issue means it's the plymouth bug
[15:36] <seb128> which is known
[15:44] <BUGabundo_remote> I know
[15:44] <BUGabundo_remote> I was prob one of the 1st to mention it in #+1
[15:45] <BUGabundo_remote> one of the dupes is even mine :\
[15:52] <m0ar> I'm vrey new to triaging, and I'm trying to set a bug to "Triaged". It contains all information needed, it's simple and very obvious. Even tho, "Triaged" isn't aviable in the status field. What am i missing?
[15:52] <nigelb> m0ar: only bug control can set bugs to triaged
[15:52] <m0ar> Ah
[15:52] <nigelb> mentioned the bug number here and ask that it be set to triaged
[15:52] <nigelb> someone who has the rights will do it for you
[15:52] <m0ar> 528962
[15:53] <m0ar> It's pretty much done, right?
[15:53] <m0ar> My report btw
[15:53] <nigelb> bug 528962
[15:53] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 528962 in shutter (Ubuntu) "Shutter doesn't fill certain dependencies (affects: 1)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/528962
[15:53] <m0ar> What's the diffrence between bugcontrol and buqsquad then?
[15:54] <nigelb> m0ar: bug control has more rights, like setting bugs triaged, wont fix AND set importance of bugs
[15:54] <m0ar> Ah
[15:55] <m0ar> So the goal for the buqsquad is to refine the reports?
[15:55] <nigelb> the goal for bug squad is to triage the bug report
[16:00] <vish> m0ar: usually one doesnt confirm their own bug reports ;)  confirmation has to be done by a different person
[16:00] <vish> rather not supposed to even
[16:00] <m0ar> vish: Well, I guess that one was pretyt obvious?
[16:00] <vish> m0ar: still nope :)
[16:01] <m0ar> Okay, thanks for telling!
[16:02] <nigelb> vish: set to triaged please.  I'll try to fix it.
[16:02] <vish> m0ar: usually the bugs where you see the OP confirming is it either the package maintainer..
[16:03] <vish> nigelb: sure.. can you comment on the bug first?
[16:03] <nigelb> yup.
[16:05] <vish> nigelb: importance?
[16:05] <nigelb> vish: medium or high if you wish
[16:05] <m0ar> I'm new, but what hsould decide if that's normal or high? :)
[16:05] <vish> nigelb: what do you think? ;)
[16:06] <m0ar> I'd guess normal
[16:06] <nigelb> vish: its a blocker, I'd say high.  but I'm not sure of the usage pattern of the bug
[16:06] <vish> m0ar: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance
[16:06] <m0ar> "A bug that has severe impact on a non-core app"
[16:07] <m0ar> High demands a "severe impact on users" which I'd guess is more.. hardcore bug?
[16:07] <nigelb> It affects every user wanting to install the package
[16:07] <m0ar> True
[16:07] <vish> nigelb: but its a non core app
[16:07] <nigelb> bah, true
[16:08]  * nigelb should sleep
[16:08] <nigelb> its been 24 hours
[16:08] <vish> ;)
[16:08] <m0ar> But "severe impact" I'd iterpret as more of a big problem
[16:08] <m0ar> nigelb: I went to sleep 07 this morning, sucked
[16:08] <nigelb> I got up yday around same time
[16:09] <nigelb> oh wait, its been 25 hours
[16:09] <m0ar> Keep counting!
[16:10] <m0ar> Is thos possible to set as confirmed?
[16:10] <m0ar> bug 495947
[16:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 495947 in debian (and 1 other project) "[need-packaging] lxdm (affects: 1)" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495947
[16:10] <nigelb> its a workflow bug
[16:10] <m0ar> Meaning? :)
[16:10] <persia> But I thought it was done?
[16:10] <persia> What does rmadison say?
[16:11] <m0ar> rmadison?
[16:11] <nigelb> persia: he's not commented
[16:11] <nigelb> m0ar: its a development workflow bug, you can safely skip it.
[16:11] <persia> `rmadison` is a tool that tells you which versions of a package are in which releases.
[16:11] <nigelb> bah
[16:11] <m0ar> nigelb: It's hard to find bugs that I actually can triage in some way D:
[16:11] <persia> Running `rmadison lxdm` will tell you if and when lxdm was packaged and uplaoded.
[16:12] <nigelb> in a lucid cache?
[16:12]  * ogra saw plenty of uploads of lxdm on the lucid-changes list ... 
[16:12] <ogra> likely an oversight that the bug wasnt closed yet
[16:12] <persia> nigelb: rmadison doesn't care where it's run.  The results are the same whether you run on dapper or lucid.
[16:12]  * persia expects so, but wants to teach how to check that
[16:13] <ogra> lxdm (0.1.0-0ubuntu1) lucid; urgency=low
[16:13] <ogra>   * Intial release (LP: #495947)
[16:13] <ogra> hmm, intresting
[16:13] <nigelb> already second revision in lucid
[16:13] <nigelb> but its a git snapshot
[16:13] <nigelb> probably the bug was for a new debian sync
[16:13] <ogra> its packaged
[16:13] <persia> Still, bug #495947 needs closing.
[16:13] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 495947 in debian (and 1 other project) "[need-packaging] lxdm (affects: 1)" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/495947
[16:13] <persia> Generally speaking, and needs-packaging bug can be closed if it's packaged.
[16:13] <ogra> yeah
[16:14] <nigelb> go ahead and close it?
[16:14] <persia> And no developers will ever complain if it's closed correctly.
[16:14] <ogra> i dont get why the janitor didnt do it
[16:14] <persia> Just don't close them just because it's in a PPA somewhere.
[16:14] <ogra> the bug is mentioned properly in the changelog
[16:14] <persia> ogra: Janitor only closes bugs against packages, and nobody assigned the bug to the package before the changelog was parsed.
[16:14] <ogra> aha !
[16:16] <persia> ogra: The issue is that it can only work if this is done between upload and source NEW, so there's a narrow window.
[16:16] <ogra> yeah
[16:16] <vish> m0ar: nigelb: set the bug to "confirmed" , needs to be sent upstream
[16:16] <m0ar> vish: What bug?
[16:16] <nigelb> vish: its just a dep issue.
[16:16] <vish> m0ar: the shutter bug
[16:17] <m0ar> Isn't it just an issu with apt?
[16:17] <vish> nigelb: dep was changed here or upstream?
[16:17] <nigelb> vish: It was set upstream.  I'm looking to find why.  There should be a reason
[16:17] <m0ar> It's already set as confirmed?
[16:18] <m0ar> So, how can I send that upstream? :)
[16:18] <m0ar> If I'm supposed to?
[16:18] <vish> m0ar: i have added a comment about how to send upstream ;)
[16:19] <m0ar> I realized
[16:19] <m0ar> But still, isn't this just an issue with the ubuntu packing? Do explain!
[16:19] <nigelb> m0ar: its an issue with debian packaging, we just sync'd the package
[16:20] <m0ar> Oh, so what has to be done is?
[16:21] <nigelb> you may have to report it to debian, but I'm still checking why they downgraded the particular depends to suggesets
[16:22] <nigelb> well, only one way to test.  I have to change the build dep, build and test. hmf
[16:26] <nigelb> m0ar: could you install the missing package and see if it works fine?
[16:26] <nigelb> (if so, we can fix this very soon)
[16:26] <m0ar> nigelb: If it works with imagemagick installed?
[16:26] <nigelb> yup
[16:26] <m0ar> It does, already tried
[16:26] <m0ar> Installing shutter gives the error
[16:26] <nigelb> ah, this looks easy.  Now all I need to do is why upstream tinkered with the deps
[16:26] <m0ar> installing imagemagick and trying to start shutter = works
[16:28] <m0ar> nigelb: Can you tell me how this works? WHY isn't imagemagick installed and what decides the dependencies?
[16:28] <nigelb> well, there is a debian/control file in every package that lists the depends for every package
[16:28] <nigelb> if a package is listed under depends, that package wont work unless that depends is installed
[16:29] <nigelb> then there is recommends, these packages wont be installed automatically.
[16:29] <nigelb> someone changed the imagemagick package to recommends from depends, which caused this issue
[16:30] <nigelb> well, not someone, the debian maintainer
[16:30] <m0ar> Ah
[16:30] <m0ar> That's kinda wierd right?
[16:31] <nigelb> they should have a reason.
[16:31] <m0ar> Oh darn, I'm in a rush
[16:31] <m0ar> Thanks for the lession
[16:31] <m0ar> Bai
[22:49] <bibinou> how does apport set the importance of a bug ?
[22:49] <bibinou> *how can
[22:49] <persia> bibinou: The launchpad API.
[22:50] <bibinou> yeah, but how can it decide if it's medium, high, etc
[22:51] <bibinou> how can it judge if a bug is important or not ?
[22:51] <bibinou> maybe, given the error type
[22:51] <bibinou> crash / signature, etc
[22:52] <persia> bibinou: I believe it sets all the crashes to "Medium" (which is usually correct for a crash).
[22:52] <persia> I think it doesn't set it for other cases.
[22:52] <bibinou> ok thanks