[01:05] <chrisccoulson> is anybody seeing gpm crashes at startup?
[01:06] <james_w> not me
[01:06] <chrisccoulson> i've just seen like 5 new bug reports in a row, since i did an upload earlier
[01:06] <chrisccoulson> but they've all failed to retrace, and i cant recreate it
[01:06] <james_w> ah, I won't have upgraded to that yet
[01:06] <chrisccoulson> james_w - please try :)
[01:06] <james_w> wilko
[01:08] <RAOF> chrisccoulson: Is it a crash when they press enter for the first time?
[01:09] <chrisccoulson> RAOF, from the bug reports i've seen, gpm is just plain crashing as soon as it loads
[01:09] <chrisccoulson> without having to do anything
[01:09]  * RAOF can't immediately blame it on plymouth, then.
[01:10] <chrisccoulson> right, i've got a clue whats going on now and why i don't see it
[01:10] <chrisccoulson> the HAL brightness code changed, and my laptop doesn't use HAL for brightness
[01:14] <chrisccoulson> cj - did you just report a gnome-power-manager crash?
[01:16] <james_w> gpm fine after a session restart here
[01:17] <chrisccoulson> we must be pretty unlucky
[01:17] <chrisccoulson> the reports are flooding in now ;)
[01:17] <james_w> is it the g_type_create_instance one?
[01:17] <chrisccoulson> james_w - yeah
[01:18] <james_w> pretty odd stacktrace
[01:18] <james_w> you could create an apport pattern for it to catch the duplicate flood
[01:18] <chrisccoulson> the retraces are failing because the dbgsym package isn't on ddebs yet
[01:18] <james_w> hah
[01:18] <chrisccoulson> if i could find someone to recreate it, i will send them the debug symbols ;)
[01:19] <james_w> it's at times like this you marvel at the efficiency of our QA process :-)
[01:19] <james_w> the ones I'm looking at haven't been tagged failed-retrace
[01:21] <james_w> /usr/share/gnome-power-manager/gnome-power-bugreport: 80: devkit-power: not found
[01:21]  * TheMuso is on a desktop when at home so not likely to be bitten by this bug.
[01:21] <TheMuso> I haven't updated yet either.
[01:22] <chrisccoulson> james_w - oh, that needs updating to upower
[01:22] <james_w> yeah
[01:22] <james_w> probably not related
[01:22] <james_w> otherwise we would likely see it too
[01:24] <chrisccoulson> i'm going to just diff the whole gpm source
[01:24] <chrisccoulson> i might spot something there
[01:24] <cj> chrisccoulson: I don't think so.  not unless it was automatically reported.
[01:25] <cj> chrisccoulson: sounds like something I would have reported, though
[01:25] <chrisccoulson> cj - you're not the reporter of bug 530364 then?
[01:27] <cj> chrisccoulson: not me.  https://launchpad.net/~cjcollier <- me
[01:28] <chrisccoulson> heh, sorry, wrong person then ;)
[01:28] <cj> np
[01:29] <chrisccoulson> ah, spotted it anyway
[01:30] <james_w> you found the bug?
[01:31] <chrisccoulson> james_w - yeah, an uninitialized GError in the HAL brightness initialization
[01:31] <chrisccoulson> thats why i don't see it
[01:31] <james_w> nice catch
[01:32] <james_w> is that the undeclared one that caused the ftbfs?
[01:32] <chrisccoulson> james_w - yeah, i added in the declaration to fix the FTBFS, but forgot to initialize it ;)O
[01:32] <chrisccoulson> so, thats sort-of my fault
[01:32] <james_w> :-)
[01:46] <TheMuso> Gotta love those brown paper bag bugs. :p
[07:13] <pitti> Good morning
[07:31] <nigel_nb> morning pitti :)
[07:33] <pitti> hey nigel_nb
[07:34] <nigel_nb> hello, having a good week so far?
[07:35] <pitti> yes, indeed! how are you?
[07:37] <nigel_nb> not bad.  In fact a great week :)
[07:39] <nigel_nb> fixing an mplayer bug now.
[07:39] <nigel_nb> but it seems to have build troubles ugh!
[07:45] <kermiac> pitti: ping re: metacity (1:2.28.1-0ubuntu2) lucid
[07:45] <pitti> kermiac: hi! what about metacity?
[07:45] <kermiac> a number of people have "run a terminal" defaulting to ALT+T, not CTRL+ALT+T
[07:46] <kermiac> any ideas?
[07:46] <pitti> you mean they set it to that manually?
[07:46] <kermiac> no, it is defaulting to that
[07:46] <pitti> gconftool -g /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/run_command_terminal
[07:47] <pitti> ?
[07:47] <kermiac> in my case I have a stock standard alpha 3 with all updates & it is defaulting to that
[07:47] <kermiac> ok, 1 sec
[07:49] <kermiac> pitti: that command returns <Alt>T
[07:51] <pitti> kermiac: can you please pastebin the output of
[07:51] <pitti> gconftool -a --ignore-schema-defaults /apps/metacity/global_keybindings
[07:52] <kermiac> ok, 1 sec again :)
[07:53] <pitti> kermiac: and check the output of
[07:53] <pitti> grep -B 1 run_command_terminal /var/lib/gconf/debian.defaults/%gconf-tree.xml
[07:56] <kermiac> pitti: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/fNxXL9fj
[07:56] <kermiac> sorry for being slow, got to C&P between karmic & lucid puters
[07:56] <pitti> kermiac: oops, can you please redo the last one with -B2?
[07:56] <kermiac> ok, will do
[07:57] <pitti> kermiac: no need to copy&paste it, just check whether it says "<stringvalue>&lt;Shift&gt;&lt;Alt&gt;Tab</stringvalue>"
[07:57] <pitti> argh, screw me
[07:57] <pitti> kermiac: ignore my previous lines
[07:57] <pitti> kermiac: so, please do that with -A1
[07:57] <pitti> instead of -B2
[07:57] <pitti> kermiac: and check whether it says "<stringvalue>&lt;Ctrl&gt;&lt;Alt&gt;T</stringvalue>"
[07:58] <pitti> kermiac: or is missing the "&lt;Ctrl&gt;" bit
[07:59] <kermiac> pitti: says no file or directory. can you please give me the whole command again to ensure I input correctly?
[07:59] <pitti> grep -A1 run_command_terminal /var/lib/gconf/debian.defaults/%gconf-tree.xml
[08:01] <kermiac> ok, that returns the string value above
[08:01] <pitti> ok, so it looks like the value got changed in your local gconf tree
[08:02] <pitti> kermiac: grep -r run_command_terminal ~/.gconf
[08:02] <pitti> does that output anything?
[08:03] <kermiac> /home/kermiac/.gconf/apps/metacity/global_keybindings/%gconf.xml:	<entry name="run_command_terminal" mtime="1267426894" type="string">
[08:03] <kermiac> that should've been 2 separate line
[08:03] <pitti> right, and that is Alt-T
[08:03] <pitti> as the gconftool output from above showed
[08:04]  * kermiac is in over his head
[08:04] <pitti> kermiac: can you replicate this in the guest session or with a new user? did you ever open/change the keyboard shortcuts dialog?
[08:04] <kermiac> I have not changed any settings. Also this behaviour has been experienced by at least 3 other people.
[08:04] <pitti> kermiac: oh, I assume you are running compiz? (with desktop effects0
[08:04] <kermiac> I will try in a gues session
[08:05] <kermiac> um, whatever is default atm
[08:05] <pitti> I think compiz reads hte metacity keybindings and does something funky with them
[08:05] <kermiac> yes, I guess that's compiz. want me to try with desktop effects totally disabled?
[08:06] <pitti> kermiac: it wouldn't help for your user, because your per-user gconf setting is already customized
[08:06] <pitti> kermiac: what you could try is to unset the key for you with
[08:06] <pitti> gconftool -u /apps/metacity/global_keybindings/run_command_terminal
[08:06] <pitti> then you should have ctrl+alt+t back
[08:06] <pitti> and then see what you have to do to get back alt+t
[08:06] <kermiac> ok, I'll try it
[08:07] <kermiac> ok, that removed the ALT+T binding
[08:08] <kermiac> but CTRL+ALT+T isn't working
[08:08] <pitti> I think you have to restart your session for compiz to notice
[08:08] <kermiac> ok, 1 sec
[08:09] <pitti> Amaranth: ^ how/when does compiz evaluate the metacity keybinding gconf settings?
[08:09] <didrocks> good morning
[08:09] <pitti> Amaranth: I'm not sure how this can happen (forgetting the <Ctrl> modifier), any idea?
[08:09] <pitti> didrocks: bonjour monsieur!
[08:09] <kermiac> pitti: ok, after restarting the session ALT+T is back
[08:10] <didrocks> Guten Tag pitti :)
[08:10] <pitti> kermiac: and grep -r run_command_terminal ~/.gconf gives output again, I suppose?
[08:10] <kermiac> 1 sec
[08:10] <pitti> kermiac: ok, thanks; would you mind reporting a bug against compiz for that?
[08:11] <kermiac> ok, should I just comment & change the package for the original bug report?
[08:11] <pitti> kermiac: oh, if there's an existing one, please do
[08:11] <kermiac> bug 529852
[08:11] <kermiac> ok, will do. Thanks for your help pitti :)
[08:11] <pitti> thanks
[08:37] <chrisccoulson> good morning everyone
[08:39] <RAOF> Good morning chrisccoulson!  Ready to take the baton for Chris-es in #ubuntu-desktop? :)
[08:39] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson, good morning
[08:39] <chrisccoulson> heh ;)
[08:39] <RAOF> It's very much like the changing of the guard :)
[08:39] <chrisccoulson> hey pitti
[08:40] <chrisccoulson> RAOF - yeah. it's a shame you'll not be around for the 1630 meeting this afternoon ;)
[08:40] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson, RAOF, pitti
[08:40] <chrisccoulson> that would be confusing
[08:40] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[08:40] <RAOF> Evening seb128 :)
[08:40] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[08:40] <chrisccoulson> well, so much for an early night after my first day ;)
[08:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, when did you go to bed?
[08:42] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson, RAOF :)
[08:42] <didrocks> salut seb128
[08:42] <seb128> lut didrocks
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - about 2am ;)
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[08:42] <seb128> utch ;-)
[08:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, at least no commuting early in the morning
[08:42] <chrisccoulson> i was going to go to bed earlier but then my inbox suddenly started filling up with gpm crashes as everyone upgraded ;)
[08:43] <seb128> RAOF, thank you for the gjs update
[08:43] <chrisccoulson> i also fixed the issue with the about-me dialog too
[08:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh?
[08:43] <seb128> the gpm crashes are bugs in the new version?
[08:43] <seb128> oh, were
[08:43] <seb128> I see a late upload :-)
[08:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i had to declare a GError to fix a build failure with the new version, but i forgot to initialize it ;)
[08:44] <chrisccoulson> i didn't see the crash, as it only affected people who don't use xrandr for brightness
[08:44] <seb128> ah I see
[08:45] <chrisccoulson> and the about-me issue is due to a gtk change
[08:47] <seb128> chrisccoulson, oh? anything I should sponsor?
[08:47] <seb128> hey bratsche
[08:47] <bratsche> Hey seb128
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i pushed the change to bzr (for g-c-c)
[08:47] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok thanks
[08:47] <chrisccoulson> i'll send that upstream this morning too
[08:47] <seb128> bratsche, had a good night?
[08:48] <bratsche> Yeah
[08:55] <chrisccoulson> this is a pain, i have to go to my other computer to commit to gnome git
[08:56] <lifeless> bratsche: its what, 2am now ? :P
[08:56] <vish> chrisccoulson: i'm sending the nautilus unmount bug upstream , but you can confirm it happens , right?
[08:56] <bratsche> lifeless: 9am
[08:57] <lifeless> wow, you're further east than I thought.
[08:57] <lifeless> bratsche: or are you in London or something atm ?
[08:57] <bratsche> lifeless: If I were at home it would be 3am now, but I'm in London. :)
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> vish - i haven't confirmed it yet, but i believe you ;)
[08:57] <vish> ;)
[08:57] <chrisccoulson> i can try in a bit, but i've got other stuff to do first
[08:58] <seb128> vish, I got similar issues with nautilus recently
[08:58] <vish> chrisccoulson: hehe , havent i heard that before ;p
[08:58] <vish> k.. upstreaming :)
[09:01] <chrisccoulson> right, gpm fix committed in git
[09:01] <seb128> chrisccoulson, good job ;-)
[09:04] <kermiac> pitti: do you want me to assign you to bug 529852?
[09:05] <pitti> kermiac: I won't be able to work on it, but I can talk to some people to find out the reason, so please go ahead
[09:05] <seb128> heh
[09:05] <kermiac> ok, np thanks pitti :)
[09:05] <seb128> pitti, you broke it you fix it :p
[09:05] <kermiac> lolz
[09:05] <seb128> or let's drop your change otherwise
[09:06] <seb128> we have other things to debug, that was supposed to be a trivial keybinding change
[09:06] <seb128> if it's not let's forget about it?
[09:08] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - bug 530501 is weird ;)
[09:08] <seb128> confused users ;-)
[09:17] <nigel_nb> chrisccoulson: that is indeed an odd bug :)
[09:18] <seb128> didrocks, I think bug #530437 is your bug
[09:19] <seb128> didrocks, you don't have any photo import software on une?
[09:19] <seb128> ie nothing dealing with cameras and import?
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, interesting gnome-panel security bug: "I deleted all my gnome-panel panels by mistake. I went to terminal, and typed in sudo gnome-panel (wouldn't work in ALT+F2). I LITERALLY BECAME ROOT. I WAS IN ROOTS HOME FOLDER AND ALL, I HAD ALL IT'S PRIVELIDGES."
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[09:28] <pitti> wow
[09:28] <pitti> sudo works, stop the line!
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> heh
[09:29] <chrisccoulson> its amazing that the user seems genuinely surprised
[09:32] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - do you have any opinion on bug 464783?
[09:33] <seb128> no
[09:33] <seb128> I've never been annoyed by that
[09:33] <seb128> but I don't use lot of command line tools which rely on that layout
[09:34] <didrocks> seb128: sorry, I was on phone, there is an issue with automount stuff in netbook-launcher (for instance, clicking on a partition in n-l doesn't mount it). It can be related. I'm logging it, thanks
[09:34] <seb128> I will let other people comment there ;-)
[09:34] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - thanks
[09:34] <seb128> didrocks, that one seems rather than you have no camera software
[09:34] <seb128> ie no f-spot, no gthumb
[09:34] <didrocks> seb128: let me open the bug report, just looked at the title :)
[09:34] <seb128> nothing able to import photos from a camera
[09:35] <didrocks> I was thinking we had gthumb, let me check
[09:35] <seb128> oh you do?
[09:35] <didrocks> (no f-spot for sure)
[09:35] <seb128> so you might want to debug why it's not listed there
[09:35] <didrocks> I'm booting :)
[09:35] <seb128> gthumb is listed as an import app there
[09:36] <seb128> but that's on my laptop not on une
[09:36] <didrocks> oh no gthumb, I was really thinking we added it
[09:36] <seb128> didrocks, ok, so it's your bug
[09:36] <didrocks> right :)
[09:36] <seb128> your users want a camera import software ;-)
[09:36] <didrocks> sure ^^
[09:36] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[09:36] <didrocks> thanks to you :)
[09:41] <chrisccoulson> right, time to brew some coffee
[09:47] <didrocks> no objection of putting back gthumb to main? it was demoted in lucid (and depends now on libopenraw) which has always been in universe
[09:49] <TheMuso> RAOF: ok found what the alsa problem is. Just gotta work out a sane fix to patch in and send upstream and we should be good to go.
[09:52] <cassidy> seb128, hi! Any plan to package latest gnome-icon-theme release? I'd like to start using it in Empathy
[09:52] <RAOF> TheMuso: Excellent.  Yay for non-regressing nouveau on PPC!
[09:52] <seb128> cassidy, isn't that late in the cycle for ui changes?
[09:53] <TheMuso> RAOF: If the kernel team give it the ok, indeed.
[09:53] <seb128> cassidy, we can package it today I guess
[09:53] <cassidy> seb128, I'd ask to the RT before, but I'd *really* like to get rid of the status icons in Empathy
[09:53] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - gthumb hasn't been properly ported to gio yet has it?
[09:54] <seb128> cassidy, I'm not convinced that should go in this cycle
[09:54] <seb128> cassidy, how will that work with other icon themes?
[09:54] <chrisccoulson> (or it hadn't last time i looked)
[09:54] <seb128> 2.11 might have
[09:54] <cassidy> seb128, gnome-icon-theme now ships status icons as defined in the naming spec; it totally make sense for Empathy to use them
[09:55] <seb128> cassidy, right, but what about other themes, will that break anything for those users who don't use the gnome theme?
[09:55] <seb128> cassidy, like is there a fallback and where in those cases?
[09:55] <cassidy> seb128, my plan was to fallback to current icons yeah
[09:55] <seb128> cassidy, or do we need to fix all the themes?
[09:55] <seb128> cassidy, so you would keep the current icons in empathy installed in hicolor?
[09:56] <cassidy> didn't GTK+ automatically fallback to gnome-icon-theme if the theme doesn't implement an icon?
[09:56] <seb128> no
[09:56] <seb128> only if you use a theme which inherit from gnome
[09:56] <cassidy> I see
[09:56] <seb128> which is not always the case under other desktops
[09:56] <cassidy> I guess I'd keep them for now as fb then
[09:57] <seb128> ok, seems good then ;-)
[09:57] <seb128> will update g-i-t
[09:57] <cassidy> thanks
[09:57] <seb128> np
[09:57] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: right, it still depends on gvfs-bin. Does it really matter compared to having no app for opening your photos? (I don't have too much clue on gio port)
[09:57] <cassidy> seb128,  I'm not sure I'll actually do it but having the package is always good
[09:57] <seb128> indeed
[09:57] <cassidy> we were waiting for this release since months
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - gthumb seems to keep having issues where it conflicts with gvfs
[09:58] <seb128> we should probably update to 2.11
[09:58] <seb128> debian has it
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> ie, gvfs mounts camera to gphoto URI, then gthumb tries to mount camera too
[09:58] <chrisccoulson> and gthumb fails because only one application can access it
[09:58] <seb128> they did quite some refactoring apparently
[09:59] <chrisccoulson> i've not seen if 2.11 is any better
[09:59] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I though the wrapper was doing a gvfs-umount to avoid that?
[09:59] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: each time? let me give it a try
[09:59] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i think so
[09:59] <chrisccoulson> but that's not very nice
[09:59] <seb128> indeed
[10:01] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - bug 442448 for example
[10:01] <didrocks> what's is the wrapper?
[10:01] <pitti> quilt shell is nice; that makes 99_autoreconf.patch so much easier
[10:01] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - i think the Exec line in the desktop file does some hackery to gvfs-umount camera devices when opening gthumb
[10:01] <seb128> I need to try this one
[10:01] <chrisccoulson> to ensure it can get a lock on the device
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i wrote a small script for doing autotools update with quilt
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> is there a shell too?
[10:02] <pitti> quilt shell
[10:02] <seb128> it's quite new
[10:02] <chrisccoulson> cool!
[10:03] <TheMuso> urgh this is a mess.
[10:03] <chrisccoulson> TheMuso - ?
[10:04] <TheMuso> chrisccoulson: re what I was talking with to RAOF above.
[10:06] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: well, you're right, that doesn't work at all
[10:06] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - maybe try 2.11
[10:06] <chrisccoulson> i know there has been some effort on a gio port, but i don't know how far it got
[10:06] <didrocks> ok, let's see
[10:07] <seb128> debian has it if you want to try
[10:08] <RAOF> TheMuso: After I've finished the washing up I can show you how to easily just not build the alsa bits.
[10:08] <asac> chrisccoulson: hi
[10:08] <chrisccoulson> hi asac, how are you?
[10:08] <asac> great ;)
[10:08] <RAOF> TheMuso: If that's helpful.
[10:08] <TheMuso> RAOF: Its fine, this is fixable, its just a mess. It needs to be fixed for upstream regardless.
[10:09] <RAOF> TheMuso: I guess ALSA failing to build on PPC64 is probably even more concerning than not having nouveau in Lucid :)
[10:09] <TheMuso> RAOF: yeah probably. It builds in the kernel fine, but due to the alsa folks not defining __powerpc64__ in the alsa-driver config/makefiles, it craps out.
[10:14] <chrisccoulson> i'm going to take the libwnck update if nobody wants to do it
[10:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, please do
[10:14] <chrisccoulson> cool, i'll do that now
[10:15]  * seb128 wonders if pitti just ignore him today
[10:15] <pitti> seb128: ? I said good morning :)
[10:16] <seb128> pitti, still waiting for you to reply to that alt-t bug
[10:16] <seb128> or rather my comment about it before ;-)
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: ah, I got the bug mail
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: and waiting for Amaranth to explain to me what compiz does with metacity's keybindings
[10:16] <didrocks> seb128: I have the same feeling with cjwatson about the ubiquity merge :)
[10:16] <seb128> oh ok
[10:16] <pitti> seb128: merely starting compiz causes the user's gconf key to be set to Alt+T
[10:16] <seb128> didrocks, which is?
[10:17] <pitti> seb128: and that can hardly be related to changing the system wide default value? (which is correct)
[10:17] <seb128> pitti, ok, I had the impression you were not interested by debugging it before reading your comment
[10:17] <seb128> pitti, so I was suggesting just reverting the change
[10:17] <seb128> pitti, we have other issues to track
[10:17] <didrocks> seb128: you know, my favorite subject for the last 3 weeks, wallpaper caching (and ubiquity, chapter 5!)
[10:17] <pitti> seb128: but yes, if it's nontrivial, let's revert it
[10:17] <pitti> seb128: it might destroy other keybindings as well, though
[10:17] <seb128> ok, let's wait a bit for compiz guys to comment
[10:17] <seb128> and revert otherwise
[10:18] <pitti> ok, one more indicator patch in lucid
[10:18] <seb128> didrocks, right, but what about it now?
[10:18] <seb128> pitti, oh, which one?
[10:18] <pitti> polkit-gnome
[10:18] <seb128> nice
[10:19] <seb128> I'm wondering if we should start running autoreconf a buildtime...
[10:19] <seb128> though we might as well stay on what we have for lucid now
[10:19] <didrocks> seb128: I just hl with the branch yesterday and proposed the merge for higher visibility today. Just waiting for an ack or a "looking at it later" to ensure my hilight was seen :) (and hopefully, to close the wallpaper book :))
[10:19] <seb128> upstream versions will not change a lot
[10:19] <seb128> and rework our packaging workflow next cycle
[10:20] <seb128> didrocks, oh ok, I didn't put the "same feeling" in context before
[10:20] <seb128> didrocks, I though it started going to roundtrips with "not the right component to change"
[10:21] <didrocks> seb128: oh no, hopefully, this time it should be ok :)
[10:22] <pitti> seb128: for lucid+1, this might be appropriate indeed
[10:28] <didrocks> 2.11.1 is nicer at least with my camera :)
[10:29] <didrocks> but I need to patch it because the importer doesn't fit at all on a netbook screen
[10:33] <pitti> seb128: ok, so AFAICS we have g-s-d/libgnomekbd, vino, banshee, and brasero indicator patches left
[10:34] <seb128> pitti, ok
[10:34] <seb128> pitti, g-s-d,libgnomekbd is on my list
[10:34] <seb128> it will be g-s-d only we agreed on that
[10:34] <seb128> easier to maintain for us
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: ah, good; can I assign that to you then?
[10:34] <seb128> banshee is for universe
[10:34] <pitti> seb128: I'll take a look at brasero
[10:34] <seb128> yes please
[10:45] <pitti> chrisccoulson: you just earned your first work item with your new firefox hat :)
[10:45] <chrisccoulson> pitti - excellent :)
[10:45] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I added you to canonical-desktop-team and regenerate the work item charts now
[10:46] <pitti> chrisccoulson: have you heard about the work item tracker already?
[10:46] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, i've seen that
[10:49] <didrocks> seb128: can you sync gthumb 3:2.11.1-2 from debian unstable, please?
[10:50] <seb128> didrocks, ok
[10:51] <didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
[10:51] <seb128> np
[10:51] <pitti> bryceh: if you create a meeting page, please use the meeting template
[11:02] <pitti> chrisccoulson: http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html -> updated now
[11:02] <sabdfl> why does the printer driver subsystem use alien?
[11:03] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks, looking now :)
[11:05] <pitti> sabdfl: hm, it shouldn't any more; openprinting.org now has proper .deb packages as well
[11:05] <pitti> tkamppeter: ^
[11:05] <pitti> sabdfl: where did you see it using alien?
[11:08] <seb128> didrocks, you might want to move the nautilus bug somewhere else too
[11:09] <didrocks> seb128: right, the ubuntu-netbook metapackage seems to be a good choice
[11:09] <tkamppeter> pitti, sabdfl: I do not remember that we have ever used alien in the printing subsystem of Ubuntu. I have always put up LSB packages on OpenPrinting in both RPM and Debian formats.
[11:09] <didrocks> done
[11:10] <seb128> thanks
[11:10] <seb128> didrocks, gthumb synced btw
[11:10]  * didrocks hugs seb128
[11:10]  * seb128 hugs didrocks
[11:35] <pitti> $ automake
[11:35] <pitti> gtk-doc.make:53: GTK_DOC_BUILD_HTML does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
[11:35] <pitti> seb128: ^ did you see that before by chacne? (autoreconfing brasero)
[11:36] <seb128> pitti, yes
[11:37] <seb128> try running gtkdocize
[11:37] <seb128> I think that's it
[11:37] <seb128> or the upstream autogen.sh
[11:37] <seb128> that usually works too
[11:37] <pitti> there's no autogen.sh
[11:37] <pitti> but gtkdocize did the trick
[11:37] <seb128> get it from git ;-)
[11:37]  * pitti hugs seb128
[11:37]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[12:30] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i pushed the libwnck update to bzr now
[12:30] <chrisccoulson> that was a nice and simple one ;)
[12:31] <chrisccoulson> i'll take gedit after lunch
[12:36] <seb128> re
[12:36] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I'm just back from lunch
[12:36] <seb128> chrisccoulson, you don't have upload access to libwnck?
[12:37] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i'm assuming now. i can't upload gnome-panel, so i don't think i'll be able to upload libwnck either
[12:37] <chrisccoulson> s/now/so
[12:38] <seb128> those sets are mystery to me
[12:38] <chrisccoulson> heh
[12:38] <seb128> sponsoring now ;-)
[12:38] <chrisccoulson> i don't think anything in desktop-core (where gnome-panel is) can pull in anything from ubuntu-desktop (which is what i can upload)
[12:39] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: you're right
[12:39] <didrocks> $ ./edit_acl.py query -s libwnck
[12:39] <didrocks> == All uploaders for package 'libwnck' ==
[12:39] <didrocks> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'core' in karmic
[12:39] <didrocks> Archive Upload Rights for ubuntu-core-dev: package set 'core' in lucid
[12:39] <seb128> you guys should have access to desktop-core too
[12:39] <seb128> didrocks, didn't you run for main upload rights?
[12:39] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i need to apply for core-dev for that ;)
[12:39] <didrocks> seb128: right, the meeting is in a few hours :)
[12:39] <chrisccoulson> yay didrocks \o/
[12:40]  * didrocks crosses fingers :)
[12:40] <seb128> hum
[12:40] <seb128> debcommit got the version wrong, weird
[12:41] <didrocks> seb128: you mean, the debian one?
[12:41] <seb128> debcommit: failed tagging with 1:2.29.6-0ubuntu1
[12:41] <seb128> libwnck (1:2.29.91-0ubuntu1) lucid; urgency=low
[12:41] <seb128> in the changelog
[12:41] <chrisccoulson> hmmm
[12:41] <didrocks> hum, no, so I didn't get that issue (sometime from a merge, it took the last debian revision… but I only had this one and can't reproduce)
[12:42] <chrisccoulson> that's very strange indeed
[12:42] <chrisccoulson> anyway, me -> lunch :)
[12:42] <seb128> chrisccoulson, enjoy!
[12:43] <didrocks> enjoy chrisccoulson :)
[12:56] <rickspencer3> pitti, wow! thanks for handling the meeting setup for me
[12:56] <pitti> rickspencer3: good morning
[12:56] <rickspencer3> pitti, do you think it's possible for us to start the meeting 30 minutes late?
[12:56] <rickspencer3> I am doing a class for Opp. Dev. Week that overlaps it a bit
[12:58] <didrocks> good morning rickspencer3
[12:58] <rickspencer3> hi didrocks
[13:00] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[13:01] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[13:03] <pitti> rickspencer3: no problem from my side
[13:05] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[13:06] <rickspencer3> pitti, thank you for taking care of the template and adding the new Chris's to the lp team
[13:07] <pitti> rickspencer3: you're welcome
[13:07] <pitti> rickspencer3: it occurred to me when I assigned chrisccoulson his first work item :)
[13:07] <rickspencer3> :)
[13:09] <rickspencer3> pitti, I assume that work item was for compiz?
[13:09] <pitti> rickspencer3: yes, "take over maintenance and fix all bugs"
[13:09] <rickspencer3> good
[13:09] <rickspencer3> sounds about right
[13:11] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: no luck, that's because RAOF is in Sydney and you're in Europa that your are technically the last newcomer :)
[13:11] <chrisccoulson> heh ;)
[13:12] <chrisccoulson> i hear robert_ancell would like to maintain compiz
[13:12] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[13:14] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: no, he's maintaining all the featured apps that he proposed :)
[13:29] <chrisccoulson> pitti - do you want me to add my activities to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-02 this week? (there's no heading with my name in the template)
[13:38] <pitti> chrisccoulson: I didn't expect you to have a report after just one day, but if you want, go ahead :)
[13:39] <chrisccoulson> well, it might be a fairly short report ;)
[13:47] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, sound seems to broken on my laptop today
[14:04]  * mvo celebrates commit r600 in s-c
[14:05] <seb128> mvo, rock on ;-=)
[14:05] <kenvandine> :)
[14:05]  * pitti yays mvo
[14:06] <kenvandine> mvo, almost caught up with gwibber :)
[14:06] <kenvandine> and gwibber is much old
[14:06] <kenvandine> +er
[14:06]  * kenvandine reboots to see if it makes desktopcouch happier
[14:07] <seb128> chrisccoulson, bug #530684 is yours
[14:07] <seb128> kenvandine, hey
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - i just pinged hadess on #gnome-hackers about that one
[14:08] <chrisccoulson> it seems it needs to register a different type name, to not conflict with nautilus-share
[14:08] <seb128> right
[14:12] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[14:12] <james_w> pitti: did you upload your fixes to the Xsession startup patch to Ubuntu?
[14:12] <pitti> james_w: not sure which patch you mean?
[14:13] <james_w> debian bug 570447
[14:13] <pitti> james_w: yes, I did
[14:13] <james_w> bug 530675
[14:14] <james_w> 20x11-common_process-args doesn't define has_option in my copy from 1:7.5+1ubuntu9
[14:14] <pitti> indeed, I seem to get that as well
[14:14] <chrisccoulson> i remember seeing that too
[14:14] <james_w> so either conffile handling meaning the changes aren't applied, or I'm misreading your patch
[14:15] <pitti> it was definitively in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/39389960/xorg_1%3A7.5%2B1ubuntu5_1%3A7.5%2B1ubuntu6.diff.gz
[14:16] <pitti> aah -- http://launchpadlibrarian.net/39589649/xorg_1%3A7.5%2B1ubuntu6_1%3A7.5%2B1ubuntu7.diff.gz reverted my patch
[14:16] <pitti> james_w: thanks for pointing out! will reupload
[14:17] <james_w> thanks
[14:17] <james_w> shall I reassign that bug and you drop the number in the changelog?
[14:17] <pitti> already done
[14:18]  * james_w hugs pitti
[14:18] <james_w> I should have known I would never beat you
[14:18] <james_w> pitti: I'm testing that PreconditionFailed thing, and I can't get it to error on staging by just adding a tag or editing the description
[14:18] <pitti> apparently you beat me by miles for discovering that bug in the first place!
[14:18] <james_w> pitti: have you ever tested against staging?
[14:19] <pitti> james_w: yes, the test suite runs against staging
[14:19] <james_w> hmmmmmm
[14:19] <seb128> mvo, is software-center having a weird category known?
[14:19] <james_w> ok
[14:19] <seb128> mvo, the same seems to made of glyphs
[14:19] <seb128> or using an alphabet when is not the latin one
[14:19] <pitti> james_w: I thought this bug would already have a reproducer, but I can write one; should be easy
[14:19] <mvo> seb128: its thai
[14:19] <seb128> latin or european, whatever you call what we use
[14:19] <mvo> seb128: its a feature - learn it
[14:19] <james_w> pitti: there are a couple on there
[14:19] <seb128> lol
[14:20] <mvo> (just kidding)
[14:20]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[14:20] <mvo> a bug
[14:20] <mvo> a BUG
[14:20] <james_w> pitti: I'm just trying to narrow it down
[14:20] <seb128> known?
[14:20] <mvo> seb128: yes - I fixed it this morning, sorry for that
[14:20] <seb128> mvo, ie want me to report it or you will handle without that?
[14:20] <seb128> mvo, ok all good then
[14:20]  * seb128 goes back to testing
[14:20] <mvo> no need to report, already fixed in bzr, it got confused when the xml was translated inline
[14:21] <seb128> mvo, the featured category is really nice now ;-)
[14:21] <seb128> well done!
[14:22] <mvo> thanks! next version will include eclipse and fretsonfire
[14:22] <mvo> well, you guys did the hard work of piccking good candidates :)
[14:23] <kenvandine> crap... desktopcouch is busted
[14:28] <pitti> james_w: uploading; thanks again for pointing out
[14:28] <james_w> np
[14:28] <james_w> thanks for fixing
[14:28] <pitti> bryceh, tjaalton: I uploaded a new xorg to reapply the changes from ubuntu6 (which got clobbered in ubuntu7); can you please commit this into your git?
[14:30] <james_w> heh, I can't seem to set a tag on staging at all, that's why I can't reproduce yet
[14:30] <james_w> \o/ huats
[14:34] <huats> hello james_w !!!
[14:34] <huats> sorry I must leave :)
[14:34] <huats> my connection was not intentional ;)
[14:39] <pitti> james_w: might be that staging is currently broken
[14:39] <pitti> james_w: my test suite doesn't run at all; if I try to file a bug, I get a page "Please wait while bug data is processed. This page will refresh every 10 seconds until processing is complete."
[14:39] <pitti> and that page regreshes itself for about 20 minutes already
[14:39] <pitti> perhaps it's related to that?
[14:40] <pitti> https://bugs.staging.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/coreutils/+filebug/p5OvbQB5UrpstVVWaJrGL1UqfEf?field.title=foo+crashed+with+NameError+in+fuzz%28%29
[14:40] <james_w> I can reproduce now using the newMessage reproducer
[14:40] <james_w> but not just by manipulating tags like you seem to be able to
[14:40] <pitti> argh, my xorg upload got rejected
[14:41] <seb128> how come?
[14:41] <pitti> there was another ubuntu10 already today
[14:41] <seb128> ah yes
[14:42]  * pitti quickly uploads 11 until someone else comes along :)
[14:43] <jcastro> hey for lucid this straciallatela thing is still maintained right? (the vanilla gnome thing)
[14:43] <pitti> jcastro: in principle yes
[14:43] <pitti> but all the indicator changes can't be reverted at runtime
[14:44] <pitti> so it becomes less and less useful these days
[14:44] <jcastro> but if it doesn't run indicator-session then theoretically the apps should fall back right?
[14:44] <pitti> no, the tests for appindicator are at build time, and with #ifdefs usually
[14:45] <pitti> the Python changes are usually at runtime, but even they would just trigger the indicator over d-bus activation
[14:46] <pitti> fortunately the package has never been in main :)
[14:47] <seb128> pitti, no, they fallback
[14:47] <pitti> seb128: the python ones? how?
[14:47] <seb128> but the fallback is the libappindicator one
[14:47] <seb128> any
[14:48] <seb128> the libappindicator fallback to notification area
[14:48] <seb128> if there is no applet running
[14:48] <seb128> or rather no indicator service
[14:48] <pitti> well, but that doesn't help really?
[14:48] <pitti> since the behaviour of those is different
[14:48] <seb128> well sort of
[14:48] <seb128> it's a middle way yes
[14:48] <pitti> i. e. they have menus instead of reacting to clicks straight away, etc.
[14:48] <seb128> you are back to notification area
[14:48] <seb128> but with the same menus
[14:48] <seb128> right
[14:48] <pitti> right
[14:49] <seb128> I don't think we can do better
[14:49] <pitti> I agree
[14:51] <james_w> pitti: bug updated with some ideas for fixing this (nothing you can use currently)
[14:52] <pitti> james_w: you rock, thanks
[14:52] <james_w> pitti: if you can reproduce this using purely tag/status/etc. modifications on an existing bug I would love to know how
[14:52] <james_w> because what I just wrote doesn't cover that at all
[14:52] <james_w> and I wasn't able to trigger it using tags before staging took a nap
[14:52] <pitti> james_w: I'm not sure I can; I think it often happens with attribute changes and operations
[14:53] <pitti> my work around is to create fresh bug objects after just about every change
[14:53] <james_w> yeah
[14:53] <james_w> .lp_refresh() might save you some typing
[14:54] <james_w> just causes it to re-GET itself, so you don't have to know where it came from
[14:54] <pitti> oh, nice
[14:56] <james_w> the new bug heat stuff will mean that we get 412s randomly from now on anyway
[14:56] <james_w> because a script run from cron will occasionally update the value of heat in the bug between GET and PATCH
[14:58] <tjaalton> pitti: yep, pushed
[14:58] <pitti> tjaalton: cheers
[15:19] <jcastro> http://lifehacker.com/5483366/simple-scan-makes-linux-scanning-beginner+friendly
[15:19] <jcastro> simplescan is getting famous!
[15:20] <hyperair> now if only my scanner would get proper linux drivers!
[15:21] <kenvandine> woot
[15:23] <pitti> simple-scan rocks indeed!
[15:24] <rickspencer3> jcastro, interesting how implementing *fewer* features seems like genius to people
[15:25] <pitti> rickspencer3: xsane doesn't have the option of converting multiple pages into a PDF, or quantizing colors
[15:25] <rickspencer3> lol
[15:25] <jcastro> I have fond memories of xsane, but it's about time to let it rest.
[15:25] <pitti> multi-page PDFs for document is what pretty much everybody wants, but can't get from xsane or gimp
[15:26] <jcastro> I am actually buying a scanner now
[15:26] <rickspencer3> is it too late for me to say that simple scan was my idea?
[15:26]  * rickspencer3 thinks about how to grub credit for this
[15:26]  * pitti cheers rickspencer3
[15:26] <mdeslaur> scanner drivers is a sore spot
[15:26] <rickspencer3> nope, there is no way, it was all robert
[15:26] <pitti> jcastro: beware, though; when I bought mine, _none_ of the ones that were in the shops would work with Linux
[15:26] <rickspencer3> but I'll think of something
[15:26] <pitti> jcastro: I bought an used one from ebay
[15:27] <rickspencer3> my scanner "just works"
[15:27] <jcastro> pitti: yeah, the due diligance on scanners is painful. :(
[15:27] <jcastro> what I want is some neat receipts like thing to make expenses suck less
[15:27] <pitti> jcastro: http://www.sane-project.org/lists/sane-mfgs-cvs.html FTW :)
[15:27] <pitti> jcastro: 99% of what my scanner does is to scan snail mail of insurance companies and the like into PDFs
[15:28]  * pitti hates paper
[15:30] <pitti> tjaalton: 107_dont_filter_input_subsys.diff > that now means x.org reacts/wakes up for every udev event? wouldn't it be more efficient to just extend the matches to "input" and (I suppose) "serial"?
[15:32] <tjaalton> pitti: that's what got in 1.8rc
[15:33] <pitti> tjaalton: it shouldn't hurt functionality wise, the filter is primarily meant to avoid unnecessary wakeups/comparisons in the callback
[15:33] <tjaalton> pitti: ok, I understand..
[15:33] <tjaalton> so, "maybe" :)
[15:33] <pitti> tjaalton: not a biggie, it just caught my eye on -changes, and I was curious
[15:33] <tjaalton> I need to test it on my tablet too
[15:34] <pitti> tjaalton: so serial wacom tables aren't class "input" then?
[15:34] <tjaalton> I'd guess this was discussed already, will check
[15:34] <tjaalton> pitti: no, 'tty'
[15:34] <pitti> i. e. the kernel doesn't even have an evdev device for it?
[15:34] <pitti> ah, I see
[15:34] <pitti> the wacom driver talks to the device directly, not through input.h, I suppose
[15:34] <tjaalton> something like that
[15:38] <tjaalton> actually the subsystem is pnp, tty is for the tty device
[15:39]  * Ng hrms at all the funky new stuff that appears when connecting an iphone to lucid. I need to get rhythmbox reading this :D
[15:39] <rickspencer3> pitti, I'm thinking that didrocks might want to start working for coredev in the next couple of years, what do you think?
[15:39] <didrocks> rickspencer3: didn't we agree on centuries, rather? ;)
[15:39] <pitti> rickspencer3: I agree; the DMB meeting should happen right now, I hope he'll get approved
[15:39] <pitti> didrocks: how is it going?
[15:39] <didrocks> pitti: it's just done, approved \o/
[15:40] <pitti> YAY!
[15:40] <pitti> didrocks: well done
[15:40]  * pitti ^5s didrocks
[15:40] <didrocks> thanks pitti!
[15:40]  * didrocks hugs pitti
[15:40] <didrocks> with such good sponsors… :)
[15:40] <rickspencer3> :)
[15:41] <seb128> didrocks, congrats!
[15:41] <didrocks> seb128: thanks ;) and thanks for your testimonial again!
[15:41] <tjaalton> pitti: http://lists.x.org/archives/xorg-devel/2010-February/005618.html
[15:42] <seb128> didrocks, np ;-)
[15:42] <tjaalton> pitti: so it's unnecessary to filter by the subsystem, since it's already done with ID_INPUT
[15:46] <nigelb> seb128: looks like the rhythmbox package failed on amd64 (I only built on i386)
[15:47] <seb128> nigelb, thanks for the work btw
[15:47] <seb128> sorry it took me a while to review it
[15:47] <nigelb> seb128: happy to help :)  you're a busy man
[15:47] <nigelb> is there anything i can do on the build failure?
[15:47] <seb128> look to the build log
[15:47] <nigelb> it says "cp: cannot stat `./debian/source_rhythmbox.py': No such file or directory"
[15:48] <seb128> ups
[15:48] <seb128> I used the debdiff
[15:48] <seb128> and forgot to bzr add
[15:48] <seb128> sorry, fixing that
[15:48] <nigelb> join the club
[15:48] <seb128> I hate that with bzr packaging
[15:48] <nigelb> lol
[15:48] <seb128> I keep doing that
[15:48] <nigelb> I made the same mistake, and rebuilt like 5 times
[15:49] <nigelb> until Laney pointed out bzr add
[16:11] <didrocks> seb128: well, tomboy will be back in UNE image for U1, so maybe the best thing is to take fspot back for importing photo? what do you think? (I speak about less effort and higher maintainability)
[16:13] <seb128> didrocks, I think it makes sense to work on the same applications
[16:13] <didrocks> agreed :)
[16:18] <LaserJock> didrocks: it does't make UNE have a tad less "lite-weight for netbooks" feel
[16:19] <didrocks> LaserJock: I agree, but gthumb is bringing two more depends in universe and nobody who knows the code. I think we can do that for lucid and discuss at UDS about default apps for lucid +1, trying to get lite-weight stuff (just trying to weigh the risk vs remaining time)
[16:20] <didrocks> and lucid+1 seems a good time to experiment with that
[16:20] <LaserJock> well, it's not making it worse anyway
[16:20] <didrocks> right, we need a photo importer app
[16:20] <LaserJock> Tomboy at least seems to have pretty decent performace for me (little slow on startup but otherwise OK)
[16:21] <didrocks> same on my netbook
[16:21] <LaserJock> f-spot is ... less than ideal, but not worse than what people have done in the past since it's been default for Ubuntu
[16:22] <didrocks> LaserJock: I tried gthumb and in addition to the added universe depends, it needs to be patch as it has fixed screensize
[16:23] <didrocks> so, let's add f-spot to have some photo importer tools until we discuss all those issues at UDS
[16:24] <LaserJock> :-)
[16:26] <LaserJock> didrocks: so we're not doing Picasa ;p
[16:26] <didrocks> LaserJock: not for that release at least ;)
[16:42] <bryceh> pitti, meeting?
[16:42] <seb128> bryceh, 30 min later
[16:42] <pitti> bryceh: in 18 mins
[16:43] <bryceh> pitti, is this a one time move or permanent change?
[16:43] <pitti> bryceh: just today
[16:43] <seb128> bryceh, rickspencer3 is having udw class
[16:43] <bryceh> ok
[16:43] <seb128> uodw
[16:43] <seb128> or whatever it's called
[16:44] <seb128> bryceh, you should have got email about it ;-)
[16:49]  * tseliot wasn't notified either
[16:51] <seb128> tseliot, read emails?
[16:51] <seb128> you are both in Cc of that email
[16:51] <bryceh> seb128, no I do not read email in bed ;-)
[16:52] <bryceh> (or while brushing teeth, as more likely in this case ;-))
[16:52] <tseliot> seb128: I read that email but I kind of skipped that line o_O
[16:52] <tseliot> bah
[16:52] <seb128> bryceh, hehe ;-)
[16:53] <seb128> ok let me try to start a guest session
[16:53] <seb128> if I go offline that thanks to plymouth still being broken
[16:54] <didrocks> I think plymouth is still broken so…
[16:55] <chrisccoulson> pitti - do you think bug 444993 is worth a SRU in karmic? the change is trivial, and it seems that users are bugging vuntz upstream about the issue too, even though it's fixed
[16:55] <pitti> chrisccoulson: not high impact, so it could only fall under the "trivial and obvious patch" category; is it?
[16:56] <rickspencer3> hi all
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> pitti - yeah, the patch is to properly unref a widget on shutdown IIRC, so that everything is saved properly
[16:56] <rickspencer3> my class is over
[16:56] <rickspencer3> so team meeting in 4 minutes
[16:56] <pitti> chrisccoulson: sounds fine
[16:56] <pitti> rickspencer3: how did it go?
[16:56] <rickspencer3> pitti, excellent
[16:56] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks. would you mind adding a karmic task to the bug?
[16:56] <rickspencer3> I suspect we will see a goocanvas based desktop to ship for Lucid + 1
[16:57] <rickspencer3> j/k of coruse
[16:57] <pitti> rickspencer3: FYI, I reviewed https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-featured-applications, but moved the milestone to beta-2
[16:58] <seb128> re
[16:58] <seb128> yes, switch user still crash xorg with plymouth there
[16:58] <pitti> chrisccoulson: done
[16:58] <chrisccoulson> pitti - thanks
[16:58] <seb128> Keybuk, is there any info that would useful to fix that plymouth getting over xorg issue?
[16:59] <seb128> Keybuk, I still get it every time I try opening a guest session
[16:59] <chrisccoulson> i still haven't installed plymouth again, it makes it impossible for me to do anything useful
[16:59] <Keybuk> seb128: I don't know that bug?
[16:59] <Keybuk> by the time you start a guest session, plymouth should be long gone
[16:59] <seb128> I get a text vt over xorg
[17:00] <seb128> when I try to open a guest session
[17:00] <pitti> Keybuk: bug 523788
[17:00] <pitti> it's the one why half of the people have plymouth uninstalled right now
[17:00] <Keybuk> pitti: that says "during boot"
[17:00] <Keybuk> seb128 said "guest session"
[17:00] <pitti> ah
[17:00] <Keybuk> I know the cause of all of the "during boot" problems I think
[17:00] <pitti> seb128: you confirmed it during boot, though
[17:00] <Keybuk> I do not know anything about guest session problems
[17:00] <chrisccoulson> so, bug 523788 is probably the issue i see then
[17:00] <seb128> pitti, yes, I get that during boot too but not every time
[17:01] <seb128> Keybuk, bug #511134
[17:01] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, ccheney chrisccoulson, bryceh, pitti, seb128,
[17:01] <rickspencer3> who am I forgetting?
[17:01] <pitti> both during boot and for guest session gdm starts a new X server, so it's not entirely implausible for the two effects to be related?
[17:01] <seb128> Keybuk, does anybody read plymouth bugs? :-(
[17:01] <ArneGoetje> o/
[17:01] <seb128> rickspencer3, hey
[17:01] <rickspencer3> anyway, team meeting now, right?
[17:02] <pitti> o/
[17:02] <Keybuk> seb128: no point
[17:02] <chrisccoulson> hey
[17:02] <tkamppeter> hi
[17:02] <ccheney> hi :)
[17:02] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-02
[17:02] <rickspencer3> hi tkamppeter
[17:02] <Keybuk> it's like being a doctor at A&E after a major incident
[17:02] <Keybuk> you know the cause of all the problems the patients are experiencing ;)
[17:03] <bryceh> "Just uninstall the airplane crash, and you'll be right back to normal"
[17:03] <Keybuk> pitti: it's completely impossible for the two effects to be related - plymouth isn't running when you switch users
[17:03] <Keybuk> the symptoms may be the same, of course
[17:03] <rickspencer3> so first order of business ...
[17:03] <Keybuk> but the cause won't be
[17:03] <rickspencer3> ok team meeting time
[17:03] <didrocks> me, that's because I'm no more the compiz maintainer o/
[17:03] <pitti> Keybuk: ah, thanks
[17:03] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:03]  * rickspencer3 taps mic
[17:03] <rickspencer3> is this think on?
[17:03] <Keybuk> pitti: I bet the switch user bug is that the first X server is created on the active VT because plymouth is running
[17:04] <rickspencer3> I've lost of control of the meeting before it even started :/
[17:04] <seb128> Keybuk, meeting, let's discuss that later
[17:04] <Keybuk> pitti: and the second X server is created by gdm, and forced onto vt7 because the firstserver.stamp file doesn't exist
[17:04] <seb128> or somewhere else
[17:04] <Keybuk> pitti: so the two leap on each other
[17:04] <pitti> ah
[17:04] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:04] <rickspencer3> let's go
[17:04] <seb128> rickspencer3, we listen ;-)
[17:04] <pitti> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-02
[17:05] <rickspencer3> here are the the actions from last week are done
[17:05] <rickspencer3> except:
[17:05] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to arrange call/meeting with ara, pitti, and seb128 regarding upgrade testing
[17:05] <rickspencer3> RESULT: Not done yet
[17:05] <rickspencer3> I'll get to this this week I hope
[17:06] <rickspencer3> thanks to robert_ancell for doing a really really wonderful job with driving the Featured Apps spec
[17:06] <rickspencer3> let's finalize that in next week's meeting
[17:06] <rickspencer3> so
[17:06] <rickspencer3> next item
[17:06] <rickspencer3> welcomes
[17:06] <rickspencer3> we have quite the explosion of Chris's on the desktop team
[17:06] <rickspencer3> Chris Coulson, new Firefox and NM maintainer
[17:07]  * chrisccoulson waves
[17:07] <rickspencer3> hi chrisccoulson, based in England, correct?
[17:07] <chrisccoulson> that's correct
[17:07] <rickspencer3> I'm sure everyone in the Ubuntu community knows chrisccoulson for his many years of contributions
[17:08] <rickspencer3> our other new Chris is Chris Rogers, new UNE maintainer, also with a specialty in xorg maintenance
[17:08] <rickspencer3> based in Sydney
[17:08] <rickspencer3> so he's asleep atm
[17:08] <rickspencer3> and goes by RAOF
[17:08]  * pitti makes a mental note to ask for deciphering his nick tomorrow morning
[17:08] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti
[17:09] <rickspencer3> perhaps that doesn't require an ACTION :)
[17:09] <pitti> lol
[17:09] <bryceh> and btw found out his official last name is "Halse Rogers" not just Rogers
[17:09] <rickspencer3> ooops
[17:09] <pitti> oh
[17:09] <rickspencer3> my bad
[17:09] <rickspencer3> thanks bryceh
[17:09]  * pitti updates his muttaliases
[17:09] <tseliot> :-)
[17:09] <rickspencer3> now I have to wonder who this Chris Rogers guy we hired is then?
[17:09] <bryceh> rickspencer3, heh
[17:09] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:09] <rickspencer3> so kenvandine is not available atm
[17:09] <rickspencer3> so no partner update today
[17:10] <rickspencer3> I will mention U1 briefly in the release status section though
[17:10] <rickspencer3> Riddell, kubuntu update?
[17:11] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:11] <rickspencer3> I forgot to remind Riddell, so let's move on
[17:11] <rickspencer3> ccheney, mozilla update?
[17:11] <pitti> apparnetly KDE 4.4.1 is just being landed
[17:11] <rickspencer3> urk
[17:12] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:12] <ccheney> rickspencer3: i got the libsoup2.4-gnome, libproxy, webkit bits done working on epiphany itself now
[17:12] <rickspencer3> ccheney, what's the status of the backporting?
[17:12] <rickspencer3> good
[17:12] <rickspencer3> ccheney, does epiphany seem as straight forward as asac was hoping?
[17:12] <ccheney> not too bad but certainly not straight forward
[17:13] <rickspencer3> mm
[17:13] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:13] <rickspencer3> ccheney, will you be done by eow?
[17:13] <ccheney> it requires forward porting code from hardy version to the new version since the new version uses gtk bits that moved out of it in new epiphany/gtk
[17:13] <ccheney> i think i will be done by eow yea
[17:13] <rickspencer3> great!
[17:13] <ccheney> i don't know if the resulting stuff will run, so there will likely be debugging after i finish the code
[17:13] <rickspencer3> I will sleep better when that is done :)
[17:13] <rickspencer3> oh
[17:13] <rickspencer3> well, yeah
[17:14] <rickspencer3> we should consider that as part of the project as well ;)
[17:14] <ccheney> but i think i can have the stuff at least preliminary finished by eow
[17:14] <rickspencer3> thanks ccheney
[17:14] <rickspencer3> next is release status
[17:14] <rickspencer3> I have a few items, but as usual, I would like to hand the mic to pitti to cover bugs and work items
[17:14]  * rickspencer3 hands mic to pitti
[17:14] <Riddell> yes we're in the middle of releasing 4.4.1
[17:14] <rickspencer3> thanks Riddell
[17:15] <rickspencer3> feel free to finish with the Kubuntu team and check back later!
[17:15] <rickspencer3> first things first, after all
[17:15] <pitti> I don't have a lot this week
[17:15] <rickspencer3> music to my ears
[17:15] <Riddell>  prio
[17:15] <pitti> my most important message is to congratulate all of you for alpha-3
[17:15] <pitti> http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-alpha-3.html looks exemplary
[17:15] <pitti> at the beginning we said this was a very optimistic list of WIs
[17:15] <pitti> and we didn't drop too much
[17:16] <pitti> for now, I'd just like everyone (the new CHrises in particular) to be aware of http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-desktop-team-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
[17:16] <pitti> so kenvandine has like 70% of the WIs, and everyone else can twiddle thumbs^W^Wfix bugs
[17:17] <rickspencer3> fix bugs!
[17:17] <kenvandine> hey... most of those are in the dx integration one
[17:17] <kenvandine> which dbarth was going to clean up
[17:17] <pitti> kenvandine: how much of SFTS is bonus at this point? I guess the "launch by defualt" bits aren't
[17:17] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, we know
[17:17] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:17] <seb128> I did clean quite some dx integration ones
[17:17] <bryceh> I like that desktop-bugs is helping us do WI's now
[17:18] <pitti> bryceh: oops -- artifact from using linked bugs..
[17:18] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:18] <pitti> nothing else from me this week
[17:18] <rickspencer3> so to answer your question pitti
[17:19] <kenvandine> seb128, he needs to assign the individual WIs to his team members
[17:19] <rickspencer3> I don't know the specific work items, but sabdfl was quite excited to finish out sfts with this extra level of integration effort
[17:19] <rickspencer3> so I think they are not-optional
[17:19] <seb128> kenvandine, ok
[17:19] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, there are like 2 of those i think
[17:19] <rickspencer3> kewl
[17:19] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:19] <pitti> but there's also some "add exceptiion handling to foo" bits
[17:20] <rickspencer3> right
[17:20] <pitti> which I'm not sure about; they sound like robustness fixes
[17:20] <kenvandine> pitti, that is currently blocked
[17:20] <rickspencer3> I am betting that those come back to us as bugs that need to be fixed ;)
[17:20] <kenvandine> i am waiting for ryan to land some changes...
[17:20] <rickspencer3> changes?
[17:20] <rickspencer3> *sigh*
[17:21] <kenvandine> yeah... i warned you there would be a FFE
[17:21] <kenvandine> :)
[17:21] <rickspencer3> yeah yeah
[17:21] <rickspencer3> but c'mon everyone
[17:21] <pitti> kenvandine: for a new gwibber version?
[17:21] <rickspencer3> we need to lock down so we can stop churn and fix bugs
[17:21] <kenvandine> right now there is no way for us to capture individual  failures
[17:21] <kenvandine> like an operation that fails for just one service
[17:22] <kenvandine> ryan promised it like over a week ago...
[17:22] <rickspencer3> POSTPONED
[17:22] <rickspencer3> let's move on
[17:22] <kenvandine> it shouldn't be high risk... but it blocks the last thing i want to do for exception handling
[17:22] <kenvandine> ok
[17:22] <rickspencer3> so also wrt to release status
[17:23] <rickspencer3> the U1 team is locking down bits for Lucid
[17:23] <rickspencer3> they have postponed some work items regarding control panel
[17:23] <rickspencer3> Should have UI for user defined folders any day now
[17:24] <rickspencer3> we already touched on Gwibber
[17:24] <rickspencer3> note that we will not call it "Gwibber" in teh UI
[17:25] <rickspencer3> I forget what it will be called in the UI, I presume it is specified in the blueprint
[17:25] <rickspencer3> anything else wrt release status, or shall we move on?
[17:26] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:26] <rickspencer3> x cursor at boot time
[17:26] <rickspencer3> so currently, plymouth loads to show some boot progress
[17:26] <rickspencer3> then x loads
[17:26] <rickspencer3> at which point it displays the spinng cursor
[17:27] <kenvandine> note: it will be called gwibber, but the window title bars will be more generic like "Broadcast messages"
[17:27] <rickspencer3> sabdfl asks that we hide this cursor
[17:27] <rickspencer3> bryceh, I assume this is not trivial, but also not terribly complicated
[17:27] <rickspencer3> thoughts?
[17:27] <seb128> seems an xorg task, could be for RAOF maybe if he doesn't have too much to do already?
[17:27] <pitti> it could also be done by gdm, I suppose?
[17:28] <rickspencer3> seb128, that's what I was thinking, but I would like kenvandine and tseliot to provide guidance and oversight
[17:28] <rickspencer3> pitti, hmmm, good point
[17:28] <pitti> setting the mouse coursor to an invisible one, and changing to the normal one once it's done loading?
[17:28] <seb128> pitti, gdm doesn't fix the gdm to desktop stage though
[17:28]  * pitti doesn't know whether that's possible in gdm, though
[17:28] <kenvandine> i know bratsche looked into this in karmic
[17:28] <bryceh> rickspencer3, you can set the mouse cursor to an invisible cursor pretty easily
[17:28] <tseliot> rickspencer3: we could move the cursor below the logo perhaps?
[17:28] <seb128> dx came with a gdm workaround in karmic
[17:29] <rickspencer3> sounds like there are some options
[17:29] <kenvandine> yeah, i bet bratsche can give us advice
[17:29] <didrocks> seb128: we still need the cursor once gdm is loaded to select user, session, and so on…
[17:29] <pitti> tseliot: that sounds complex; it's a sprite on top of everything usually, isn't it? and hardware rendered?
[17:29] <seb128> didrocks, that's busy cursor
[17:29] <seb128> the issue there was, what happen when plymouth is not used
[17:29] <seb128> or xsplash
[17:29] <seb128> gdm should be spinning cursor in those cases
[17:29] <pitti> should it?
[17:30] <pitti> it doesn't seem plymouth related at all to me
[17:30] <seb128> otherwise you get an empty screen and no activity
[17:30] <seb128> well, when you have an animation you know things happen
[17:30] <seb128> when you get an empty stalled screen not so much
[17:30] <tseliot> maybe it's something that the plymouth upstart job can do?
[17:30] <tseliot> (hide the cursor)
[17:31] <seb128> also what happen for people using an another login manager?
[17:31] <seb128> ie kubuntu
[17:31] <tseliot> so that it's done only if you pass splash on boot
[17:31] <didrocks> I agree with seb128, when gdm take some time and you don't have plymouth, it's good to have a feedback that the system isn't frozen
[17:31] <tseliot> good point
[17:31] <seb128> I would prefer to have that change in right place that a gdm specific workaround
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ok, who can be on point to make this happen, even if RAOF ends up with the implementation, I don't feel it would be fair to ask him to design a solution
[17:31] <rickspencer3> ?
[17:31]  * rickspencer3 hears scampering noises
[17:31] <rickspencer3> :)
[17:32] <pitti> seb128: hm, I had actually thought that it would be safer to do in gdm
[17:32] <pitti> so that we don't break kdm, XFCE, and whatnot
[17:32] <seb128> well I would prefer having plymouth going over mouse
[17:32] <seb128> if that's possible
[17:32] <seb128> but I don't know if that is
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> pitti - isn't it only the greeter which has a connection to the display?
[17:32] <chrisccoulson> (in which case, it would be too late wouldn't it?)
[17:32] <pitti> seb128: that sounds hard to do (since it's rendered by hardware), but ICBW
[17:32] <seb128> or mouse turned off during plymouth run
[17:33] <rickspencer3> hehe
[17:33] <pitti> chrisccoulson: the slave starts X
[17:33] <seb128> like the plymouth script could turn curser off and on
[17:33] <seb128> well, I said what I had to say
[17:33] <pitti> chrisccoulson: it could pass options to X, or run programs in it (which it already does with the greeter)
[17:33] <tseliot> seb128: when you see the cursor it means that plymouth has been already deactivated and left the bootsplash in the framebuffer
[17:33] <seb128> I will let people who know figure ;-)
[17:33] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, ok, i didn't realise that
[17:33] <pitti> well, it's one of these little things which are again regression prone and nontrivial to implement
[17:33] <pitti> (sounds like 20 new indicators *cough*)
[17:34] <tseliot> heh
[17:34] <rickspencer3> hmm
[17:34] <seb128> I know we had the "hide cursor" discussion during dapper ui sprint
[17:34] <seb128> ie a while ago ;-)
[17:34] <seb128> and it's coming back regularly since and nobody came with a good way to do it
[17:34] <pitti> rickspencer3: I guess we also don't really have an option to say "no", right?
[17:34] <seb128> so it's probably not trivial
[17:34] <rickspencer3> pitti, well
[17:34] <rickspencer3> I can't say "no"
[17:35] <rickspencer3> but I can say "it's hard, costly, and buggy"
[17:35] <rickspencer3> and based on this conversation I will do that
[17:35] <rickspencer3> however, we still need to try
[17:35] <bratsche> As I recall seb128 is right that the cursor should be disabled by Xorg to begin with.. if you disable it in gdm then you're still probably going to see the cursor briefly before gdm starts.
[17:35] <pitti> I think I could give me a hard limit of one hour to ask people and play around with that
[17:35] <seb128> if nobody comes with a good idea I guess I would go with the gdm hack
[17:35] <rickspencer3> pitti, would you be willing to coordinate a plan of attack?
[17:36] <pitti> bratsche: ok, thanks; that helps already
[17:36] <rickspencer3> I'll summarize a list of options from this discussion to discuss with sabdfl
[17:36] <pitti> but if we change X to hide the cursor by default, we'd break all non-gdm setups
[17:36] <tseliot> how about making the cursor invisible?
[17:36] <tseliot> and making it visible after we're done with gdm, etc.?
[17:36] <pitti> tseliot: invisible, hide, still the same problem -- something has to turn it back on later
[17:36] <bratsche> pitti: I'm not sure.. don't most other display managers set the cursor at some point?
[17:37] <pitti> i. e. fix gdm, kdm, xdm, ldm, raw X, custom setups without a WM, etc.
[17:37] <pitti> bratsche: xdm certainly doesn't :)
[17:37] <bratsche> Oh, hmm.
[17:37] <pitti> and I get bug reports where people use startx
[17:37] <pitti> which is fine for specialized setups, embedded stuff, and whatnot
[17:38]  * mclasen recommends asking upstream...
[17:38] <tseliot> pitti: we can make the cursor visible again when stopping the plymouth upstart job
[17:38] <pitti> hence my original point to limit it to gdm itself
[17:38] <Keybuk> isn't there an X patch around somewhere that adds a command-line option to hide the cursor by default
[17:38] <Keybuk> in which case, you could add that option from the existing gdm plymouth transition patch
[17:38] <Keybuk> (likewise kdm)
[17:38] <pitti> so that gdm says "start X with cursor hidden" and enables it later on
[17:38] <tseliot> Keybuk: yep
[17:38] <pitti> so that we can avoid changing the default X behaviour
[17:39] <Keybuk> that'd mean that the cursor is *only* hidden in the cases where we've already got a patched window manager
[17:39] <Keybuk> and in the case where plymouth was running
[17:39] <pitti> Keybuk: exactly
[17:39] <Keybuk> that way you then just need a second half of the patch to turn the cursor back on ;-)
[17:39] <seb128> can we do what mclasen recommends too
[17:39] <seb128> and ask upstream if they have an idea on how to do that too
[17:39] <Keybuk> sure
[17:40] <pitti> ok, sounds good
[17:40] <rickspencer3> all
[17:40] <rickspencer3> I will be happy for this conv. to carry on
[17:40] <rickspencer3> but let's window down the meeting first
[17:40] <rickspencer3> then I can let you get back to the discussion
[17:40] <pitti> I think we covered all we can in the meeting
[17:41] <rickspencer3> any other business?\
[17:41] <seb128> yes
[17:41] <Keybuk> Fedora seem to have a patch for this
[17:41] <seb128> yes was a reply to pitti's comment
[17:41] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'll take the action to coordinate this, file bug, investigate options, etc.
[17:41] <seb128> no other business
[17:41] <rickspencer3> pitti, thank you!
[17:41] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:41] <rickspencer3> that's a wrap
[17:41] <rickspencer3> thanks all
[17:41] <seb128> thanks
[17:41]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[17:42] <tseliot> thanks++
[17:42] <chrisccoulson> thanks :)
[17:42] <didrocks> thanks, was interesting :)
[17:42] <rickspencer3> btw, I'm stepping out for an hour or so
[17:42] <rickspencer3> back for an early Eastern edition
[17:42] <rickspencer3> oh, back way before then
[17:42] <bryceh> thanks
[17:42] <pitti> thanks everyone
[17:43] <ccheney> thanks
[17:44] <tseliot> Keybuk: any links to patch?
[17:45] <Keybuk> tseliot: none, I just know I've seen it somewhere :p
[17:45] <Keybuk> googling for "patch" and "pointer" is err, not helpful
[17:45] <tseliot> Keybuk: ah, ok
[17:45] <tseliot> hehe
[17:46] <Keybuk> hmm
[17:46] <Keybuk> I think it might be a configure option actually
[17:46] <Keybuk> ./configure --enable-null-root-cursor
[17:47] <didrocks> Keybuk: try "yahooing", maybe? ;)
[17:47] <mclasen> or look at the fedora package...
[17:47] <Keybuk> right
[17:47] <Keybuk> our X server package has the ability to be built with ./configure --enable-null-root-cursor
[17:48] <Keybuk> which modifies the dix/cursor.c's CreateRootCursor() function
[17:48] <Keybuk> I guess we'd want that to be moved to if() rather than #if and turned into a command-line option
[17:48] <Keybuk> someone will have to write that patch
[17:52] <tjaalton> what about hiding it until some amount of movement?
[17:52] <tjaalton> no, I'm not volunteering ;)
[17:52] <pitti> mclasen: I don't see a patch for this in http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/devel/xorg-x11-server/, though (but thanks for pointing out, will dig further)
[17:52] <chrisccoulson> i just tried looking there too
[17:53] <seb128> me too ;-)
[17:54] <kklimonda> hey, what is the dell mini model you use for tests?
[17:54] <pitti> anyway, /me waves good night
[17:54] <pitti> gotta run now
[17:54] <kklimonda> g'night pitti
[17:54] <chrisccoulson> 'night pitti
[17:54] <seb128> pitti, see you
[17:54] <seb128> kklimonda, mini10v
[17:54] <mclasen> pitti: we definitively had code for hide-the-cursor initially, though
[17:55] <didrocks> good night pitti
[17:57] <chrisccoulson> mclasen - http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/rpms/xorg-x11-server/OLPC-3/xserver-1.5.0-hide-cursor.patch?revision=1.1&view=markup ?
[18:00] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, that change is in the latest version anyway
[18:35] <LaserJock> kenvandine: are there any particular tricks I can play if gwibber stops starting up?
[18:35] <LaserJock> kenvandine: like, can I temporarily move my config?
[18:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, wb
[18:43] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128
[18:50] <kenvandine> LaserJock, known desktopcouch bug
[18:50] <kenvandine> being worked on now
[18:53] <LaserJock> kenvandine: oh, well fine then, I won't worry about debugging :-)
[18:53] <LaserJock> I thought it was a local issue
[18:54] <kenvandine> LaserJock, thx though :)
[18:54] <kenvandine> CardinalFang is working it now
[18:57] <kenvandine> LaserJock, for reference bug 530716
[19:00] <LaserJock> kenvandine: thanks
[19:00] <kenvandine> np
[19:10] <chrisccoulson> right, baby time
[19:10] <chrisccoulson> bbl
[20:07] <pascal80> qexit/quit
[20:17] <baptiste_> «-- Chris Coulson <chris.coulson@canonical.com>» whoow
[20:17] <baptiste_> did I miss something
[20:23] <chrisccoulson> hey baptiste_
[20:23] <chrisccoulson> how are you?
[20:24] <baptiste_> fine
[20:24] <baptiste_> so You're now working for canonical
[20:24] <baptiste_> I thought you didn't want to
[20:24] <chrisccoulson> did i say that?
[20:24] <chrisccoulson> and yes, i am now, since yesterday :)
[20:25] <baptiste_> at least you deserve it :) congrats
[20:25] <chrisccoulson> thanks!
[20:27] <chrisccoulson> bah, hadess is not around anymore
[20:27] <chrisccoulson> i have a small fix for a build issue in g-u-s and i'm not sure whether to just go ahead and commit it
[20:28] <baptiste_> you have a GNOME git account?
[20:29] <chrisccoulson> baptiste_ - yeah
[20:29] <chrisccoulson> but i don't normally commit without asking to module maintainer first
[20:30] <seb128> don't I would say
[20:30] <seb128> that's fine when you have worked a bit with the maintainer and he tells you to commit small fixes
[20:30] <seb128> but when you didn't ask before
[20:31] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'll wait until tomorrow then
[20:40] <chrisccoulson> right, i'm going to update gedit now
[20:41] <baptiste_> sometimes hades comes back online later in the evening
[20:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, feel free to call it a day
[20:41] <seb128> there is no hurry
[20:41] <seb128> I will not stop you if you want to do it though ;-)
[20:41] <seb128> there is gtksourceview2 to do to
[20:41] <chrisccoulson> i don't plan to do very much tonight, after having a late night last night
[20:41] <seb128> if you want to do the set
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> but a couple of updates isn't too bad
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i can look at gtksourceview2 too
[20:42] <seb128> thanks
[20:42] <chrisccoulson> and a bit of bug triage whilst watching TV
[20:43] <seb128> I will do that to but before time to take a shower
[20:43] <seb128> be back in a bit
[20:43] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: can we swap? I do the gedit update and you loose your hair trying to patch LP :)
[20:44] <seb128> I will also try to get that xorg crash reported
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> hey didrocks
[20:44] <chrisccoulson> you want to do those updates instead? ;)
[20:44] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: if you do the LP work, yes ;)
[20:45] <seb128> you both want extra tasks? ;-)
[20:45] <seb128> I'm sure I can find things to do for you!
[20:45] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: that's the time when we have to run, I guess :)
[20:45] <seb128> ;-)
[20:46] <seb128> anyway I'm the one running for now
[20:46] <seb128> trying to get that xorg crash reported
[20:46] <seb128> bbl
[20:46] <didrocks> seb128: enjoy your evening :)
[20:46] <didrocks> too late ^^
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> didrocks - LP work?
[20:46] <chrisccoulson> heh, he disappeared quickly there ;)
[20:54] <rickspencer3> something must be wrong
[20:54] <rickspencer3> I am actually prepared for the Eastern Edition meeting
[20:59] <RAOF> Good morning.
[20:59] <Nafai> RAOF: Congrats on joining Canonical! :)
[21:00] <RAOF> Thanks!
[21:00] <chrisccoulson> ooh, another chris ;)
[21:00] <didrocks> good morning RAOF
[21:00] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: right ;)
[21:01] <TheMuso> Good morning
[21:01] <chrisccoulson> rickspencer3, is that because you're in a different time zone this week?
[21:01] <RAOF> Good, bright, sunny morning to you too.
[21:02] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, I don't know
[21:02] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, maybe because you are further east?
[21:02] <chrisccoulson> brb, session restart
[21:03] <TheMuso> So we move the meeting earlier for this morning. I receive a call yesterday to move the appointment I had later this morning to late next week. Oh well never mind.
[21:03] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, RAOF, robert_ancell ready for Eastern edition?
[21:03] <RAOF> We're all up nowe :)
[21:03] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: sure
[21:03] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Yes.
[21:03] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah I know. Just annoying.
[21:03] <robert_ancell> ready
[21:04] <bryceh> hmm, maybe I should move to the eastern edition with raof
[21:04] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-03-02
[21:04] <rickspencer3> bryceh, that would be fine it it works for you
[21:04] <rickspencer3> anyway, please peruse the wiki for the minutes from this morning
[21:05]  * TheMuso reads...
[21:06] <rickspencer3> RAOF, so typically at this point, folks read the meeting minutes from the Euro Edition
[21:06] <rickspencer3> and then we walk through it real quick
[21:06] <RAOF> Ok.
[21:07] <TheMuso> hrm interesting.
[21:07] <RAOF> This might also be where I say my surname is “Halse Rogers”, not “Rogers” :)
[21:07] <rickspencer3> RAOF, yeah, you can see that in the minutes
[21:07] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, what's "oh interesting?"
[21:07] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: The X cursor. Doesn't affect me, but wanting it gone is interesting from a technical perspective.
[21:08] <rickspencer3> ah
[21:08] <TheMuso> And a user perspective
[21:09]  * kenvandine is anxiously awaiting a fixed desktopcouch... 
[21:09] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: As for audio, I think the only thing noteworthy this week is that performance bugs for applications that don't have native pulseaudio support should be fixed.
[21:10] <TheMuso> When used in Ubuntu via pulseaudio.
[21:10] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, does this effect pygame?
[21:10] <rickspencer3> I assigned you a bug about that I believe
[21:10] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: No, as libsdl has native pulse support.
[21:10] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yes I saw that, and I asked a question in the bug in question.
[21:11] <TheMuso> And what is more, things have been set up such that the pulseaudio output version of libsdl is on the CD
[21:11] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, unfortunately I don't quite grock all that, I'll look at the bug
[21:11] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: ok
[21:11] <rickspencer3> RAOF, robert_ancell done looking through the minutes?
[21:12] <robert_ancell> rickspencer3, yup.  A lot of X cursor discussion :)
[21:12] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: There is several binary packages of libsdl, all linking against different audio backends. The seeds have been tweaked such that the version of libsdl that is shipped, is the version that has pulseaudio output support.
[21:13] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, so presumedly the pygame bug is now fixed in Lucid by that?
[21:13] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Yes.
[21:13] <rickspencer3> chouette!
[21:13] <RAOF> rickspencer3: Yup.
[21:13] <TheMuso> Which is why I asked for people to check in the bug.
[21:13] <rickspencer3> ok
[21:13] <rickspencer3> let's roll
[21:14] <rickspencer3> first
[21:14] <rickspencer3> welcome to the Chris's of the world
[21:14] <rickspencer3> !
[21:14] <RAOF> :)
[21:14] <robert_ancell> RAOF, welcome!
[21:14] <rickspencer3> RAOF, very groovy to have you on board
[21:14] <rickspencer3> I will leave it to pitti to work with you to decipher your irc nick
[21:15] <rickspencer3> I still need to follow up with ara wrt upgrade testing
[21:15] <rickspencer3> for partner update, the key thing here is that U1 team is postponing some features in order to buckle down and deliver with quality in Lucid
[21:16] <rickspencer3> big day for Riddell, as KDE 4.4.1 landed
[21:16] <rickspencer3> this means lots of packaging and uploading
[21:16] <rickspencer3> and lots of new goodness
[21:16] <rickspencer3> in terms of mozilla status ...
[21:16] <rickspencer3> seems that only ephinany is left for the hideous backporting work
[21:17] <rickspencer3> next week ccheney will switch to functional testing and bugfixing
[21:17] <rickspencer3> release status wise
[21:17] <rickspencer3> highlights here are that desktop team did not postpone much!
[21:17] <rickspencer3> it is not past time to change things
[21:18] <rickspencer3> most efffort should be bug fix oriented now
[21:18] <rickspencer3> there are some exceptions
[21:18] <rickspencer3> especially wrt social from the start
[21:18] <rickspencer3> there is a feature or two to add
[21:18] <rickspencer3> and some bugs to fix
[21:18] <rickspencer3> and some UI to push around
[21:19] <rickspencer3> then was the xcursor discussion
[21:19] <rickspencer3> pitti will be leading those efforts
[21:19] <rickspencer3> I'll give sabdfl a status tomorrow, and we'll take it from there
[21:19] <rickspencer3>  
[21:19] <rickspencer3> any questions, comments, additions?
[21:19] <TheMuso> Other than my audio update above, no.
[21:20] <robert_ancell> not from me
[21:20] <RAOF> I'll be sending out a (hopefully final) call for nouveau testing soon, hopefully today.  It'd be nice if everyone with nvidia hardware gives it a whirl.
[21:21] <rickspencer3> thanks RAOF
[21:21] <rickspencer3> RAOF, so for the team meeting next week, it will go like
[21:21] <rickspencer3> on Monday I will forget to send out a reminder to provide an activity report and to attend the meeting
[21:22] <rickspencer3> then on Tuesday pitti will notice this and do it for me
[21:22] <rickspencer3> RAOF, so just look over the other activity reports and base yours off that
[21:22] <rickspencer3> if there is anything that you do that you feel should not be shared publicaly, you can send that along privately
[21:22] <rickspencer3> but this doesn't happen too much
[21:22] <rickspencer3> make sense
[21:22] <rickspencer3> ?
[21:23] <RAOF> Ok.  The one I sent you seems a little verbose compared to the ones on the wiki.
[21:23]  * rickspencer3 looks
[21:23] <RAOF> Makes sense.  And mail the report to you, or put it straight on the wiki, or don't care?
[21:23] <rickspencer3> RAOF, it's easier for me if you just put it on the wiki
[21:24] <rickspencer3> but if you prefer to email it, that is fine also
[21:24] <RAOF> Wiki is easy.
[21:24]  * rickspencer3 reads activity report
[21:24] <bryceh> RAOF, yeah I just stick it in wiki
[21:24] <rickspencer3> RAOF, I see you have some agenda items
[21:25] <RAOF> Oh, yes.
[21:25] <rickspencer3> do you want to discuss that now?
[21:25] <Keybuk> pitti: since adding an important sleep statement, I can replicate the plymouth issue everytime now :p
[21:25] <RAOF> Might as well raise it.
[21:27] <RAOF> I was talking with Laney in #debian-cli, and there's a bit of dissatisfaction about desktop team members patching stuff that the cli-{apps,libs} teams maintain and not sending patches back up.
[21:27] <rickspencer3> RAOF raises the issue debian maintainers for mono feel that our patches are not flowing upstream to debian fast enough
[21:27] <rickspencer3> RAOF, what is blocking the flow of packages back to debian?
[21:28] <rickspencer3> also note that we will never be able to make every upstream happy and also make our users happy
[21:28] <RAOF> I think it's a lack of communication.
[21:28] <RAOF> Yeah, there's a tension there.
[21:28] <rickspencer3> (not that this specific situation can't be improved)
[21:28] <rickspencer3>  "lack of communication" sounds rather vague
[21:29] <RAOF> I'm not sure what effect the construction of a pkg-cli package set in Ubuntu will have, either.
[21:29] <rickspencer3> are our patches not done publically in LP?
[21:29] <jono> hey
[21:29] <rickspencer3> RAOF, I don't know what pkg-cli is
[21:29] <rickspencer3> is this all mono stuff?
[21:29] <bryceh> rick, it's probably a push vs. pull dichotomy
[21:29] <bryceh> like they're expecting to see us push patches up, we're expecting them to pull them from us?
[21:30] <RAOF> rickspencer3: There's a proposal before the TB to create a pkg-cli-{apps,libs} package set that would mirror the Debian pkg-cli-{apps,libs} maintained packages.
[21:30] <Laney> It's not a proposal. It's been approved.
[21:30] <RAOF> Since almost all of the Debian pkg-cli-{apps,libs} team members actually primarily work in Ubuntu, this makes quite a lot of sense.
[21:30] <RAOF> Laney: Ah, thanks.
[21:31] <jcastro> Laney: does that approval fix your concerns?
[21:32] <RAOF> bryceh: I think possible just a ping that we *have* touched a package would be nice - there's almost always someone from the team around in IRC.
[21:32] <Laney> no, that's really orthogonal
[21:32] <rickspencer3> RAOF, that sounds like something that should be automated
[21:32] <robert_ancell> is there an easy way to purge all uninstalled packages?
[21:33] <RAOF> rickspencer3: True.  Can you subscribe to uploads to a package set in LP?
[21:33] <Nafai> robert_ancell: http://ascending.wordpress.com/2007/04/10/apt-tip-purge-removed-packages/
[21:33] <Nafai> If you find a simpler way, let me know :)
[21:33] <robert_ancell> Nafai, thanks!
[21:33] <Nafai> np
[21:33] <rickspencer3> RAOF, I don't know
[21:33] <rickspencer3> but if they just want to know when stuff has changed, that's very basic tooling
[21:34] <robert_ancell> packages leave their upstart files around which causes warnings on boot (and potentially all sorts of dangerous behaviour)
[21:34] <Laney> What we want ideally is for people to do changes directly in Debian, since it's a goal to keep stuff in sync.
[21:34] <RAOF> Laney: Would a ping be sufficient?  There's a tension here between not wanting to have a maintainer-lock in Ubuntu and sensibly collaborating with the maintaining team.
[21:34] <Laney> What is more realistic is for uploaders to think about whether their patches are something Debian might want, and file reports pushing them back.
[21:34] <rickspencer3> ok
[21:34] <Laney> that's what we ask for MOTU stuff, and it makes just as much sense here
[21:35] <rickspencer3> this is just normal sending patches upstream workflow
[21:35] <rickspencer3> is there a reason that mono is impacted differentially by this?
[21:35] <Laney> for GNOME, you guys tend to follow upstream and not Debian so it doesn't make as much sense there
[21:35] <Laney> but the mono stuff (tomboy excepted) follows Debian more closely
[21:36] <Laney> and, as RAOF said, we are mostly Ubuntu users in the Debian team anyway, so we are likely to be receptive to fixes that you guys want for Ubuntu releases
[21:36] <RAOF> Mono's a bit different because the Debian team maintaining it is full of Ubuntuites.
[21:36] <jcastro> in the past I thought most of the work happened in debian and was just synced back, is that not the case anymore?
[21:36] <Laney> that's the current topic :)
[21:36] <RAOF> jcastro: That's what we want to preserve
[21:36] <rickspencer3> ok
[21:36] <jcastro> right
[21:37] <rickspencer3> the f-spot patch is ideosyncratic, so not a good example
[21:37] <Laney> So the thing that triggered this was the latest f-spot upload. This seems to have been a patch sweep of LP.
[21:37] <rickspencer3> I am wondering if this is really a widespread issue
[21:37] <Laney> well once a package falls out of sync without anything done about it, it gets harder to get it back in that state
[21:38] <Laney> I guess I want to know if you guys consider that something that you want to work towards
[21:38] <rickspencer3> Laney, in general, we prefer not to carry patches
[21:38] <rickspencer3> if we do work and it makes sense for upstream
[21:39] <rickspencer3> it's better for everyone if the patch goes upstream
[21:39] <robert_ancell> right, so I made the Launchpad integration patch - I want to look at making libupstream-gtk in Lucid+1 so we can push all these patches upstream
[21:39] <Laney> so, what you have here are Debian maintainers that want to work with you guys
[21:39] <rickspencer3> this is a time in the cycle when we tend to fall behind with upstream patches
[21:39] <rickspencer3> Laney, right
[21:40] <rickspencer3> I think this is a good heads up, but I am not sure the problem has really festered at this point
[21:40] <Laney> well it's best to bring it up before it becomes a big problem
[21:40] <rickspencer3> I think we should ask jcastro to look into it and let us know if there is more falling on the floor than I think
[21:40] <jcastro> yeah
[21:40] <rickspencer3> Laney, yes agreed
[21:40] <rickspencer3> please, never hesitate to speak up
[21:40] <jcastro> RAOF: I'd like to have a follow up hallway discussion at UDS too ..
[21:41] <rickspencer3> this is an important issue, and we take it seriously
[21:41] <RAOF> jcastro: I look forward to it! :)
[21:41] <jcastro> the debian/ubuntu collab in the mono team has always been an excellent example of collaboration, we'd like to not lose that
[21:41] <rickspencer3> thanks Laney and RAOF
[21:41] <bryceh> jcastro, I've wondered if it might make sense to have something like an inverse of the merge-o-matic... that flags packages with patches that need review for going upstream
[21:42] <Laney> we would welcome desktop team members to work directly in Debian
[21:42] <Laney> the benefit to Ubuntu is the same
[21:42] <bryceh> jcastro, and some way to track patches which have been reviewed and deemed only valid for Ubuntu or something
[21:42] <jcastro> bryceh: the +patches view lands on thursday which might help
[21:42] <Laney> (and now that we all have RAOF, maybe this can happen ;)
[21:43] <RAOF> bryceh: That would be a nice bonus for DEP-3 headers, I suspect.  Having something that parses & uses them.
[21:43] <jcastro> Laney: every UDS we have a debian healthcheck session, I will add this to the agenda
[21:43] <Laney> hopefully I can be there
[21:51] <seb128> re
[21:51] <RAOF> Good morning
[21:52] <seb128> hey RAOF
[21:52] <LaserJock> jcastro: do you have any numbers on % of upstreamed patches? Is that even remotely quantifable?
[21:53] <jcastro>  hah, man.
[21:53] <jcastro> ask for a pony instead, it's more realistic
[21:54] <Laney> It's realistic if you insist on DEP3 headers :)
[21:54] <jcastro> yes
[21:54] <Laney> which itself is unrealistic
[21:54]  * Laney runs
[21:54] <bryceh> hehe
[21:54] <RAOF> submittodebian would make a low-end estimate possible, I'd have thought.
[21:55] <jcastro> yeah, but you have to think about other things too, like people who don't use submittodebian (larger number of people raised their hands when I asked that question than I was expecting)
[21:55] <jcastro> or the group of people who are DDs and fix it in debian directly
[21:56] <jcastro> or the group of people who are maintainers in an $upstream and fix it there directly ...
[21:56] <RAOF> Yes.  It would be a *very* conservative lower bound.
[21:59] <jcastro> I think the way to go about it is just continue to improve team-to-team relationships across projects instead of trying to figure out a number we know will be wrong anyway
[22:01] <jcastro> RAOF: that said on thursday lp will land a +patches view that will make patches harder to miss
[22:02] <LaserJock> jcastro: I wondered if you could use something like Closes: LP #xxxx in Debian changelog entries for instance
[22:02] <LaserJock> although that sounds really hackish
[22:03] <Laney> That already happens
[22:03] <jcastro> it's on the list of things to look at actually
[22:03] <LaserJock> I swear I could do a PhD just on data mining Ubuntu-Debian bug stuff
[22:03] <jcastro> LaserJock: also, some upstreams have the lp plugin installed, we could probably start measuring there
[22:04] <jcastro> LaserJock: we had this discussion at UDS, the problem is that most of the ideas we want take a bunch of effort and we only have like 4 dudes on the lp bugs team
[22:04] <jcastro> but +patches will be a start
[22:04] <Laney> who is that view aimed at?
[22:05] <jcastro> you can use it on a team, a person, a package, or a project
[22:05] <LaserJock> jcastro: is +patches on the source package or on individual bug reports or ?
[22:05] <jcastro> at some point I want it to suck in sources from external bug trackers as well
[22:05] <jcastro> so you can do lp.net/tomboy/+patches and see the world
[22:05] <jcastro> (or whatever)
[22:05] <LaserJock> yeah
[22:06] <LaserJock> that's what I really loved about Harvest
[22:06] <LaserJock> was looking at Fedora patches
[22:06] <jcastro> yeah it's basically harvest with a larger scope
[22:06] <LaserJock> I would take a package-of-interest and look around at other distros and see what all people were doing
[22:06] <jcastro> yup
[22:07] <LaserJock> I ended up finding a great patch from Zenwalk for an upstream project I maintain doing that
[22:07] <jcastro> https://dev.launchpad.net/Bugs/PatchTracking
[22:08] <jcastro> LaserJock: Laney: I'll blog about it when it lands, afterwards I'd love to have a discussion on how to make it work out better for you.
[22:08]  * jcastro has to take off now
[22:09] <LaserJock> I still wish we had a "Push to Debian" button in LP
[22:09] <LaserJock> even if it just spat out a properly formated email :-)
[22:10] <Laney> It's not that much effort to fire up reportbug -B debian xxx and type away
[22:11] <seb128> when you don't get flamed for having an ubuntu version in the log
[22:12] <seb128> I tend to not bother sending most of the changes to debian because we get those upstream usually so they go back to debian too with the next update
[22:12] <bryceh> ditto
[22:13] <bryceh> (actually jcristau has specifically told me he prefers that)
[22:14] <Laney> it makes sense for the packages where you follow the development series
[22:14] <LaserJock> Laney: I hate reportbug and rarely use it, I would love something in LP
[22:14] <Laney> LaserJock: have you tried the gtk+ UI?
[22:14] <LaserJock> no, last time I used it was probably 3 years ago
[22:14] <RAOF> That seems to crash with alarming frequency for me.
[22:15] <LaserJock> I rarely report bugs to Debian and instead usually talk to developers directly
[22:15] <LaserJock> but I don't have that much patch pushing to do
[22:17] <bryceh> yeah, I'd probably send more stuff to debian if the tools were easier.
[22:17] <Laney> You can use your normal mail client if you learn the syntax of submit@bdo
[22:18] <seb128> kenvandine, there?
[22:18] <Nafai> bryceh: Heh, I have long-time Debian friends that complain about Ubuntu and having to use a web interface for bug stuff :)
[22:18] <seb128> kenvandine, are you getting somewhere with the f-spot editing change?
[22:18] <seb128> Nafai, you can use emails with launchpad
[22:19] <Nafai> I've recently learned this
[22:19] <Laney> there's a little bit of give involved in learning the tools, but the real benefit is worth it imo
[22:20] <LaserJock> I completly fail on the email methods, apparently I'm too dumb for it :-)
[22:20] <LaserJock> I end up with dupes and all kinds of weirdness
[22:20] <bryceh> same
[22:20] <bryceh> "learn the syntax" != "easy"  ;-)
[22:21] <bryceh> I do it rarely enough that I have to re-learn the syntax every time
[22:21]  * TheMuso almost always uses email for bugs that require simple changes, i.e status change etc.
[22:21] <bryceh> I've tried using the command line tools to do the mail formatting and such, but find they don't simplify much
[22:22] <Laney> I don't contend that it's easy, just that doing it is worth it
[22:22] <LaserJock> if I care enough I just become a DM on the package
[22:23] <LaserJock> that also works for a limited number of bugs
[22:24] <bryceh> Laney, ok, well I remain to be convinced of this ;-)
[22:25] <Laney> obviously depends on the individuals/teams concerned. Some may find that tossing a URL to a patch works well.
[22:29] <seb128> RAOF, you do gtk# hacking right? ;-) did you ever worked on f-spot before?
[22:29] <TheMuso> o/c
[22:29] <RAOF> seb128: I've done some gtk# hacking; I haven't touched f-spot before.
[22:30] <RAOF> Need help with the f-spot editing change?
[22:30] <seb128> yes, I was going to suggest that
[22:30] <seb128> kenvandine seems to face issues with that
[22:30] <seb128> and to be busy with gwibber and other things too
[22:30] <seb128> I've the feeling he could use some help there
[22:31] <seb128> did you talk with him about that already?
[22:31] <RAOF> I haven't, no.
[22:31] <seb128> can you try to check with him when he's around maybe?
[22:31] <RAOF> Yeah, I will.
[22:31] <seb128> I'm not sure how much work you have on your plates already so feel free to say no
[22:32] <seb128> but that's a change which we should have got in lucid for alpha3
[22:32] <seb128> so would be nice to get that moving now ;-)
[22:32] <seb128> RAOF, thanks
[22:32] <seb128> kenvandine, ^
[22:36] <seb128> didrocks, can you push the gnome-games update you did to bzr?
[22:52]  * seb128 grrrrs at robert_ancell for gnome-games renames
[22:53] <robert_ancell> seb128, what's wrong with the renames?
[22:53] <seb128> they annoy me
[22:53] <seb128> first a tetris not named tetris doesn't make sense :p
[22:53] <seb128> and they break scoring now
[22:54] <seb128> I need to migrate score in postinst
[22:54] <robert_ancell> seb128, oh, that's not my fault.  I think the names are crap too
[22:54] <seb128> and create the correct score files there too
[22:54] <seb128> right now scoring is not working for new names
[22:54] <robert_ancell> seb128, I personally would have liked to drop tetris as it always seems to be problematic
[22:54] <seb128> we can drop it from the default install if we didn't yet
[22:55] <seb128> or you speak about upstream?
[22:55] <seb128> robert_ancell, good work on the feature apps btw!
[22:55] <robert_ancell> seb128, no, in ubuntu
[22:55] <seb128> I like the list
[22:55] <seb128> and you did a good job justifying the changes etc
[22:55] <robert_ancell> seb128, cool, it sounds like just a few modifications and we'll be done!
[22:55] <robert_ancell> seb128, have you used miro?
[22:55] <seb128> changes -> choices
[22:55] <seb128> robert_ancell, no
[22:57]  * TheMuso finds what was gnome tetris, and thinks the new name is stupid. Nobody will recognise it for what it really is.
[22:57] <robert_ancell> seb128, TheMuso we could patch the desktop entry?
[22:58] <TheMuso> I would think so, but its not up to me.
[22:58] <seb128> yes
[22:58] <seb128> I still don't get why upstream did that
[22:58] <seb128> and why you didn't oppose them since you are part of their team ;-)
[22:59] <robert_ancell> seb128, legal fear of the term "tetris"
[22:59] <robert_ancell> seb128, I wouldn't say that the GNOME Games team is really that organised when it comes to making decisions.  Stuff just generally happens
[23:00] <seb128> I fail to see somebody suing gnome for calling a game gnometris
[23:06] <robert_ancell> IANAL
[23:12] <seb128> robert_ancell, I'm wondering if swell-foop and lightsoff are buggy
[23:12] <seb128> their makefiles don't install score files?
[23:12] <robert_ancell> seb128, I'd say they are buggy.  They're very new
[23:21] <seb128> bah
[23:21] <seb128> those opengl games are too slow to be played on my laptop wth?
[23:23] <azteech> anyone here have a recommendation for a good Howto for Ubuntu and hackintosh (snow leopard 10.6) ?
[23:24] <azteech> have someone that is interested is dual booting the two OS's
[23:29] <seb128> azteech, not me
[23:37] <bryceh> wb rickspencer3
[23:37] <rickspencer3> thanks bryceh
[23:37] <rickspencer3> weird being on East Coast time
[23:40] <azteech> seb128, thanks ..