/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/03/02/#ubuntu-irc.txt

animalprimate#join ubuntu-beginners00:53
=== nhandler_ is now known as nhandler
arandI have someone who has been dropped to the maintenance shell on a failed fsck, I would suggest running "fsck -fy" but I've had diverse comments on the propriety of that, what do you say?03:22
persiaI say we need better advertisement of good second-level support channels :)03:23
jdongarand: it can or cannot be the correct thing to do :)03:23
jdongarand: the "correct" thing to do is do a dd type full backup before attempting a fsck -fy on a corrupted disk03:23
persiafsck -fy will either fix or competely break the filesystem, depending on the way in which it's broken.  It's very hard to know which will happen in advance without detailed knowledge.03:23
Tm_Tbasic rule with everything: avoid --force (;03:24
jdongTm_T: except for fsck, IMO03:24
jdonge2fsck especially may ask you a million (not exaggerating) y/n questions without -f03:25
jdongand ^C on a fsck is bad etiquette if you regret your decision03:25
Tm_Tjdong: and usually with good reason03:25
jdongand job control is unavailable in the rescue shell03:25
jdongTm_T: indeed. as persia said, fsck -fy is the close-eyes-and-pull-trigger repair method :)03:25
Tm_Tlike installing packages with "dpkg -i --force-all"03:26
jdongoh that's typically just a bad idea period :)03:26
arandOk, /home is on separate partition, so I intend to recommend the trigger...03:28
jdongarand: please give a you-should-dd-if-you-care disclaimer first :)03:29
jdongthere is a nonzero risk of completely trashing the filesystem and ending up worse than where he is now03:29
persiaarand: Try recommending to boot a liveCD first, perform a dd backup, force-mount the filesystem, attempt to extract /etc, and then pull the trigger.  That makes is less likely to be horrible when something goes wrong.03:29
persiaDoes anyone remember the channel name that was *supposed* to provide second-level support?03:29
Tm_Tpersia: #kubuntu03:30
jdongthere's second-level support?03:30
* Tm_T hides03:30
jdong#ubuntu-devel?03:30
jdong;-)03:30
persia:p03:32
* persia reads mail archives03:32
=== remix_auei is now known as remix_tj
arandIs kokoveron in #ubuntu a bot? has been told countless times to stop...10:36
arandoh, nvm10:36
Myrttinext time will end up him being banned10:45
Myrttilike so10:45
erUSUL!grub211:22
ubottuGRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager in Karmic. For more information and troubleshooting on GRUB2 please refer to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Grub211:22
rwwerUSUL: You can do /msg ubottu !factoid instead of calling them randomly in channels...11:29
=== remix_tj is now known as remix_auei
erUSULrww: ok; did not know it was so annoying given the activity of this channel. but point taken11:30
DJonesMight be worth keeping an eye on crixtiano in #u looking at the command they've just posted, enough people have warned them about it12:09
=== remix_auei is now known as remix_tj
=== Mamarok_ is now known as Mamarok
GPenguinleche: please invite the other asperger guy k1l too18:58
GPenguin[20:00] <GPenguin> wenn sich leute schon "kill" nennen kannst du raten was kommt wenn du eine andere meinung vertrittst19:00
GPenguin[20:00] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to sdx2319:00
GPenguin[20:00] * You have been kicked from #ubuntu-de by sdx23 (you should know better)19:00
GPenguinabsolutely against the Code of Conduct19:00
GPenguinAGAIN;19:00
GPenguinso bring these people online, i need to escalate this19:01
k1lhi19:01
bekkshi k1l19:01
GPenguinthe asperger syndrome can not rule #ubuntu-de19:01
GPenguinwe have the code of conduct for a reason19:01
k1lGPenguin: what about u stop ur private war?19:01
GPenguinand we want to be respectful19:01
GPenguink1l: and we dont want to speak about war only because your language is full of violence19:02
bekksyou are not respectful since calling others to have asperger.19:02
GPenguinwhy?19:02
GPenguini think you are too immature for IRC19:02
bekksi dont know WHY you are acting that way, but you are.19:02
GPenguinbring the chat log to #ubuntu-irc and show me one sign of disrespect from my side19:02
k1lwhat about u accept the channel rules and keep the support-channel clear for support. ur offtopic doesnt belong to the supportchannel19:02
k1land to flame about my nick doesnt make u act respectfull19:03
GPenguina person with asperger who gives himself the name "kill" who is defacing beginners and banning quickly is addressed by me not as sign of disrespect but because its growing out to a massive problem on the german chat rooms19:03
GPenguinand bekks is suspcious to have asperger too19:04
k1leven to call all supporters to have the asperger syndrom19:04
GPenguinmeans they disqualify for moderation roles19:04
bekksGPenguin: please stop your suspicions.19:04
GPenguinbecause they bring violent language to the german ubuntu channels19:04
k1lthe support channel got a quite good standing in the freenode services. so what is ur real problem with this?19:04
bekksI am no moderator nor op anyway.19:04
GPenguinthey constantly attack newbies with the comment "your question is off-topic" while the situation asks for a polite welcome to these people19:04
k1lGPenguin: u wanna make a private war to become admin?19:05
GPenguinwhat?19:05
GPenguini want german ubuntu channels to be newbie friendly19:05
k1lGPenguin: they are19:05
GPenguinif you dont stop with your nonesense about war i can escalate to the mailing lists19:05
k1llol19:05
GPenguinthats funny for you?19:06
k1lu r talking about escalating all the time19:06
GPenguinthats a hint with polite language, you speak about war which is violent19:06
k1lwe tried to find a way with u in our own admin channel. u got very rude so u got kicked19:06
GPenguinthats a hint with polite language, you speak about war which is violent19:06
GPenguinshow my rudeness19:06
GPenguini am curious19:06
leche# 20:18:09 <dfs> [20:13] * [alamar] (~alamar@BOfH.euirc.net): Julian D. Seifert19:06
GPenguinthats old rubbish19:06
lechehttp://nopaste.euirc.net/index.php?id=06a48b6ac919:07
lecheheres your rudeness19:07
GPenguinthats DAYS OLD19:07
GPenguintoday, we have the 2nd of march young boy19:07
GPenguinquote something from today that shows rudeness19:07
k1lGPenguin: stop trolling around19:07
GPenguin<bullgard>> bekks: GPenguin hat hier zum Thema gesprochen.19:07
GPenguinthat was right before you banned me, JERKFACE.19:08
k1l*sigh*19:08
bekkswell, please dont mix around multiple conversation streams.19:08
k1lthats all. bb guys19:08
GPenguinyou disqualify for moderation roles because you call me a troll19:08
bekksME, i was talking with bullgard.19:08
bekksand I'd better leave too. byebye.19:08
GPenguin---19:09
GPenguini join right now:19:09
GPenguin[20:09] <GPenguin> bullgard: komm mal bitte auf #ubuntu-irc19:09
GPenguin[20:09] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to k1l19:09
GPenguin[20:09] * You have left channel #ubuntu-de (requested by k1l (GPenguin))19:09
GPenguinsee how abusive they are?19:09
GPenguinand this paste from leche was a private conversation from days ago which was happening on a totally different network19:09
GPenguinits on somebody with higher priviledges within the IRC Team to stop these asperger people and their violent attitude19:10
lechedo i need to paste the conversation in #ubuntu-de-op too?19:10
GPenguinbecause we are slowly getting a climate like on #debian.de on german ubuntu channels19:11
GPenguini am willing to bring this up on #freenode again if nobody feels called19:11
GPenguinand i am also willing to post to several mailing lists if 1 single person calls me a troll again19:11
lechethey will tell you again they wont do anything19:12
GPenguinor bans me for no rule violation19:12
GPenguinleche: shut the heck up already19:12
lechethats it, you violated the rules19:12
MyrttiGPenguin: quite rude...19:12
GPenguinleche: go back to your playground19:12
GPenguinMyrtti: i am fed up already19:12
Tm_TGPenguin: that's not nicely said, and no there's no excuses for rudeness19:12
GPenguinTm_T: if you look at my experiences from the last 7 days, then you are sorry _together_ with me19:13
GPenguinbecause we are slowly getting a climate like on #debian.de on german ubuntu channels19:13
GPenguinthats very frustrating19:13
GPenguinthey are bashing newbies for nonesense19:13
GPenguinthey make up fake rules and ban people19:13
GPenguinbecause they obviously suffer from the asperger syndrom and should not play moderation officers19:13
lechethe rules are no fake rules and well documented19:13
GPenguinleche: i said shut up, i had enough of your nonesense on #ubuntu-de19:14
lecheyou referred to read them, though19:14
GPenguinleche: then show me 1 single rule violation of _today_19:14
GPenguin[19:59] <GPenguin> aber verlagern wir das besser auf einen admin channel damit sich auch was ändert19:14
GPenguin[19:59] * KEBA (~mario@f048163068.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #ubuntu-de19:14
GPenguin[19:59] <<leche>> GPenguin: der deutsche op channel ist #ubuntu-de-op19:14
GPenguin[19:59] <<bullgard>> bekks: GPenguin hat hier zum Thema gesprochen.19:14
GPenguin[19:59] * caillean bewirft die leute mal mit rosa wattebäuschchen *19:14
GPenguin[19:59] <GPenguin> leche: der reicht hier nicht aus, wir sollten auf #ubuntu-irc19:14
GPenguin[19:59] <<bekks>> bullgard: ...19:14
GPenguin[20:00] <GPenguin> bullgard: bitte renne in keinen ban wegen mir19:14
GPenguin[20:00] <<leche>> bullgard: GPenguin bekks xMine, die diskussion ist hier nun beendet.19:14
GPenguin[20:00] <<bekks>> leche: ack syn.19:14
GPenguin[20:00] <GPenguin> wenn sich leute schon "kill" nennen kannst du raten was kommt wenn du eine andere meinung vertrittst19:14
DreamThiefGPenguin: STOP IT19:14
lecheGPenguin: you continued bashing on the situation of #ubuntu-de in the support-chan after 3 ops told you to stop it.19:15
GPenguin[20:00] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to sdx2319:15
GPenguin[20:00] * You have been kicked from #ubuntu-de by sdx23 (you should know better)19:15
GPenguin[20:08] * Now talking on #ubuntu-de19:15
GPenguin[20:08] * Topic for #ubuntu-de is: Der deutschsprachige Support-Channel von Ubuntu - http://ubuntuusers.de | Channelregeln:  http://tinyurl.com/Channelregeln | Paste:  http://paste.ubuntuusers.de/ | Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de | CoC:  http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Ubuntu/Code_of_Conduct | Offtopic: #ubuntu-de-offtopic | Rufen von OPs mittels "alarm"19:15
DreamThieflol19:15
DreamThiefjussi01: thx ;)19:15
jussi01GPenguin: use a pastebin please19:15
GPenguin"lol, thanks for the ban"  <-- do you finally see what i mean?19:15
* DreamThief .oO( he should rather use a trashbin and put himself inside. )19:15
GPenguinTHAT is their spirit19:16
GPenguinshow me how that complies with the code of conduct19:16
GPenguini am curious19:16
Pici!appeals19:16
ubottuIf you disagree with a decision by an operator, please first pay #ubuntu-ops a visit. If you are still unhappy, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/AppealProcess for the steps you should take. If you feel the need to discuss the channel rules, please contact the ops on IRC or via the email address on the aforementioned page.19:16
GPenguinbecause _i_ am the newbie and they are those guys who follow the code of conduct since how long?19:16
GPenguinPici: a bit late for an appeal... dont you think?19:16
PiciGPenguin: Then I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish here.19:17
GPenguinPici: which mailing list is best suited for a long, post in german language that covers this problem?19:17
PiciGPenguin: There is none to my knowledge.19:17
GPenguinbecause we are slowly getting a climate like on #debian.de on german ubuntu channels19:17
MenZaI would say this is a case for the German LoCo team to deal with, perhaps on a forthcoming LoCo meeting?19:18
jussi01GPenguin: the ircc one mentioned in the !appeals factoid, we have a german speaker who can fill us in19:18
GPenguinso you guys agree that german ubuntu channels should absorb the hostile and anti social climate of gentoo and debian channels?19:18
KaiLGPenguin, then we won't discuss this now..19:18
GPenguinKaiL: not?19:18
GPenguinso i better bring this up on #freenode?19:18
PiciGPenguin: I don't think we can make any comment on the situation until we've seen the facts.19:18
jussi01However, you should of course take it up with the german ops as a first point of call19:18
GPenguinPici: you saw facts live on channel ... how they were treating me19:19
DreamThiefGPenguin: come on, the initial problem was your offtopic talk in our support channel und you have been asked to use the offtopic channel. and some of our supporters told you that starting a  discussion about the best irc client would rather lead to a flamewar than something usefull. what's so bad about that?19:19
GPenguin"lol, thanks for the ban" as reaction when i accidently pasted the log instead of the url19:19
GPenguinperfect example19:19
GPenguinno, DreamThief is not telling the truth19:19
lechehe is.19:19
GPenguinthere is a crowd of 5 channel ops who play the super cop who bans fast19:20
DreamThiefyou don't need to go off like a rocket.19:20
GPenguinthat is the main problem not me19:20
DreamThiefhm19:20
GPenguinbecause i received private messages from a lot of people so far who told me to go on, because they also dont like this anti social climate on #ubuntu-de19:20
GPenguini can post to any mailing list you like19:20
lechedo.19:21
DreamThiefcome on19:21
GPenguinor i can keep trying to post to #freenode till somebody gets fedup19:21
MenZaGPenguin: #freenode has nothing to do with this issue :)19:21
GPenguinMenZa: harassment of users is a network problem19:21
Pici#freenode will not interfere with channel operations.19:21
lecheMenZa: he told him 10 times but he didnt want to listen.19:21
lechethey*19:21
DreamThiefd'oh.19:21
DreamThiefI give up with this.19:21
GPenguinwe are slowly getting a hostile and anti social climate like on #debian.de on german ubuntu channels19:22
GPenguinand it can be seen as harassment of new users from chanops side19:22
GPenguinthats a network problem19:22
MenZaRight, would anyone be so kind as to link me to full unedited logs of this, and I'll see if I can make some sense of it19:22
lecheMenZa: do you speak german?19:22
DreamThiefGPenguin: well but what do you think your behaviour will lead to?19:22
MenZaleche: Nur ein Bisschen, aber ich kann viel verstanden :)19:22
bullgardI support GPenguin's point of view.19:22
GPenguinPici: i name you 4-5 people who should move from their moderation position from #ubuntu-de to #debian.de and everything is fine19:23
GPenguinso the rest of us can welcome new users as the code of conduct suggests19:23
KaiL"us"?19:24
bullgardYes: us.19:24
bullgardThe ubuntu community.19:24
KaiLI haven't seen you before...19:24
bullgardIf you have seen me before is irrelevant.19:24
KaiLnot you, the Penguin19:25
bullgardKaiL: So please make more precise startements, ploease.19:25
bullgards/startments/statements/19:25
GPenguin[20:06] <<leche>> # 20:18:09 <dfs> [20:13] * [alamar] (~alamar@BOfH.euirc.net): Julian D. Seifert19:28
GPenguin[20:07] <GPenguin> thats old rubbish19:28
GPenguin[20:07] <<leche>> http://nopaste.euirc.net/index.php?id=06a48b6ac919:28
GPenguin^^  and this here has nothing to do with ubuntu or freenode19:29
m4vGPenguin: please don't paste here19:29
GPenguinhe is a warez guy from euIRC19:29
GPenguinand IRC-Net19:29
MenZaI'm reading the logs now.19:29
GPenguinthat was pasted here by leche19:29
GPenguinMenZa: do you speak some german by chance?19:29
MenZaGPenguin: Nur ein Bisschen, aber ich verstehe meisteins.19:30
GPenguin[20:24] <<bullgard>> The ubuntu community.  <-- danke19:30
lecheMenZa: the logs from euirc just show how GPenguin behaves when hes upset.19:30
lecheMenZa: its not the actual incident19:30
lechewait a moment19:30
GPenguinMenZa: sorry that you have to go through all the mess from several days ago. it was not my intention to invite these violent chanops to bring this old rubbish up again19:30
lechethis is the actual one: http://pastebin.com/F11sn3Ep19:31
MenZaleche: I'm looking at the incident from the LoCo bot :)19:31
MenZahttp://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/2010/03/02/%23ubuntu-de.html19:31
GPenguintoday i was not offending a single rule and was banned twice - again!19:31
lecheyepp19:31
lecheGPenguin: you were19:31
GPenguinonly because they are afraid i could manage that they are removed as chanops19:31
GPenguinwhich is what i desire _now_19:31
m4vGPenguin: you were muted19:31
lecheyou were told several times not to do this discussion in the supportchannel.19:31
GPenguinm4v: same effect, its a ban19:31
m4vis not.19:31
GPenguinits violence19:31
GPenguinfor no reason19:31
jussi01Do the german channels have their own version of guidelines or do you use the english ones we supply?19:31
GPenguinbecause i tried to calm bullgard down that nothing happens to him how it happens to me19:32
GPenguindo you get it?19:32
lechejussi01: we have a set of rules described here, but Gpenguin refused to read them (link following)19:32
GPenguinbecause some german chanops are _violent_19:32
lechehttp://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/LocoTeam/IRC19:32
GPenguinleche: especially you. thats why: the asperger syndrome problem19:32
m4vGPenguin: it wasn't for "no reason" you pasted a full log here19:32
MenZaI assume you mean "trigger-happy" when you say "violent", GPenguin19:32
bullgardleche: No, The logs clearly show that GPenguin tried to help newcomers in the #ubuntu-de channel to get answered their questions.19:32
GPenguinthe #debian.de problem mixes19:33
DreamThiefokay, now can you tell me how we can be violent to you if we are interacting via irc ..?19:33
GPenguinpeople with asperger syndrome should not play moderation roles, because they are violent chanops19:33
Myrttican you people  calm down?19:33
GPenguinDreamThief: you call people trolls for no reason19:33
GPenguinnewbies are _not_ trolls. they are PEOPLE!19:33
GPenguincode of conduct!19:33
bullgardYes indeed.19:34
MenZaRight, let me get this straight--#ubuntu-de is a traffic-heavy channel, which, like #ubuntu, encourages offtopic talk in the -offtopic channel. A user requested suggestions for IRC channels, was asked not to ask meta questions, and a number of people joined in to suggest their favourite clients. All in all, a pretty peaceful discussion.19:34
GPenguinMenZa: correct19:34
DreamThiefGPenguin: come on, you're not the center of the universe. how can you be so damn shure that your sight of the things is the only true?19:34
MenZaThat said, there were calls to take the issue to #ubuntu-de-offtopic19:34
KaiL<GPenguin> newbies are _not_ trolls. they are PEOPLE! << well, most of them..19:34
GPenguinMenZa: but 4-5 people on the access list on #ubuntu-de are taking it too far with their anti social attitude19:34
bullgardMenZa: Yes.19:34
GPenguinMenZa: and its ruininig the social climate for the german ubuntu community19:34
MenZaThese calls were ignored, and the discussion escalated, pretty much landing us where we are now.19:35
DreamThiefMenZa: exactly19:35
GPenguinMenZa: i see that as harassment of users by 4-5 chanops19:35
KaiLGPenguin, are you trying to make a record in "insults per Minute"?19:35
GPenguinMenZa: and as you can see is #ubuntu-irc not capable of fixing this problem19:35
GPenguinKaiL: please shut up if you have nothing positive to add19:35
MenZaGuys, let's all just *calm* *down*19:36
GPenguinokay :)19:36
GPenguini am calm19:36
MenZaInsults and spiteful remarks solve nothing; let's be constructive instead19:36
m4vGPenguin: y'know, you're a pretty violent person for describe a mute as violence19:36
GPenguinm4v: dude. i fight alone against bans and defacements19:36
GPenguinonly bullgard speaks for me, do you realize that?19:36
bullgardSome channel operators in #ubuntu-de take the accusation "offtopic" as a big stick to frighten newcomers and get them off the channel.19:36
MenZaThe particular issue in question seems to be a small, rather excusable thing -- user goes offtopic, user is warned, user is kicked, ideally -- situation dissolved.19:37
m4vGPenguin: you don't need to fight, just talk19:37
GPenguinso its kind of natural that i get excited, dont you think?19:37
GPenguineven more natural if you know the problem with #debian.de on Freenode19:37
m4vGPenguin: we're all hearing you, asking somebody to "shut up" is over the top19:37
GPenguinthere is a reason why i am defending the ubuntu code of conduct against asperger people19:37
MenZabullgard: I don't know how high-traffic the -de channel is, nor do I know what policies the LoCo team have put in place. In the -dk channels, we're not too worried if people go meta or directly offtopic in our support channel, but in #ubuntu, it's just too much traffic all at once19:37
GPenguinm4v: i did not throat punch him :P19:38
lecheMenZa: he did this a few days ago, where a user was told not to ask metaquestions. he nearly flipped out and was really insultin in #ubuntu-de-op19:38
Tm_TGPenguin: stop using the "asperger" as some kind of insult19:38
GPenguinleche: forget about your old rubbish already. thats not going to help the situation19:38
GPenguinTm_T: its no insult. its a fact19:38
DreamThief...19:38
bullgardMenZa: The traffic in the channel #ubuntu-de is at maximum a tenth of that in #ubuntu.19:38
GPenguinpeople with asperger syndrome should not play moderation roles, because they are violent chanops19:38
MenZaleche: I don't know what preceeded this incident, I'm just looking at this particular issue19:38
Tm_TGPenguin: you have seen their diagnoses?19:38
MenZaGPenguin: I think I'm doing a pretty good job, aren't I? :)19:39
MenZaAnyway.19:39
GPenguinTm_T: i am qualified enough to judge people as they judge newbies who are obviously not people but trolls19:39
KaiLbullgard, 1/10 of "far to much to follow" is still to much to do a good support19:39
GPenguinMenZa: you have the love of christel. thats why you are so nice :P19:39
Tm_TGPenguin: no, stop it, right now19:39
radoeGPenguin: what is your matter with asperger? I'm one of the ubuntu-de ops, I have no asperger and I don't like how you talk about people with a desease.19:39
GPenguinTm_T: are you an asperger too?19:39
PiciDoes it matter?19:39
Myrttinnnnggghhhhhhh19:39
GPenguinyes19:40
MenZaNo, it doesn't.19:40
Tm_TGPenguin: no, but I know plenty of them, and it's totally irrelevant19:40
GPenguinso when newbies are defaced as trolls you guys have no problem, but beware somebody pushes the "beware of aspergers" button then all jump in19:40
GPenguinI SEE!19:40
GPenguinlets make sure we have this logged19:40
MenZaGPenguin, you feel harassed in #ubuntu-de; is that how I am to understand the whole situation?19:41
GPenguinbrb19:41
Myrtti*sigh*19:41
Tm_TGPenguin: we have logbots here already (:19:41
KaiL"everybody is an antisocial idiot; I'm the only good guy"?19:41
MenZaI'm not going to continue mediating this unless you drop the "asperger" card.19:41
DreamThiefKaiL: exactly that'19:41
Tm_Tanyway, sauna for me ->19:41
DreamThiefthat's the exxence of all that.19:41
GPenguinMenZa: you see how i am "fighting" against a horde of aspergers? :D19:41
KaiL...Geisterfahrer...19:41
GPenguinbut i am still calm even tho i am schizophrenic19:41
GPenguinKaiL: right!19:41
bullgardGPenguin: Please calm down.  In your interest and in the interest of the matter you are bringing up.19:42
GPenguintotally right, und genau deshalb eskalieren wird das auf mailing listen damit leute wie du ihren "war" endlich bekommen19:42
GPenguinasperger people battle schizophrenic people for being trolls19:42
MenZaWould someone give some input as to how the Ubuntu DE LoCo is managed? Is the IRC channel directly managed by the LoCo?19:43
bullgardGPenguin: A "war" is not in the intrest of Ubuntu and of Ubuntu'*s newcomers.19:43
GPenguinthats the story :)19:43
GPenguinthats the #debian.de story and 4-5 german ubuntu chanops make this the ubuntu story aswell19:43
GPenguinexactly thats why i am ranting here19:43
GPenguinbecause you kill the purpose of the ubuntu code of conduct19:43
bullgardGPenguin: Ranting is no good.19:43
GPenguinbecause _i_ am going to protect newbies and other schizo people19:43
GPenguinand when i have to mail bomb Mark himself19:44
MenZaThat won't do you much good.19:44
MenZaI repeat -- would someone give some input as to how the Ubuntu DE LoCo is managed? Is the IRC channel directly managed by the LoCo?19:44
lecheMenZa: i sent a link allrdy, wait19:44
MenZaleche: Oh, alright19:45
lecheMenZa: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/LocoTeam/IRC19:45
lecheMenZa: GPenguin refused to read the rules.19:45
bullgardleche: GPenguin defended the ingterests of Ubuntu newcomers against humiliation.19:46
MenZaI understand this was taken up with the #ubuntu-de-op channel as well. Could anyone outline that process?19:46
lechebullgard: he was told 3 times to stop discussing this in the support channel.19:46
lechebullgard: and he kept continuing19:47
GPenguinbullgard: could you please /query me your email address so i can stay in contact with you?19:47
GPenguinthe chat here seems pointless19:47
lecheMenZa: do you want a log of this discussion?19:47
bullgardleche: Yes. And this telling was yelling and was not necessary.19:47
MenZaleche: Sure.19:47
MenZaGPenguin: Can I remind you that the LocoTeam/IRC page says "Atme tief durch, bewahre Ruhe und werde nicht emotional." in the "Ich fühle mich von einem/den OPs ungerecht behandelt" section -- please try to keep that in mind.19:47
lechebullgard: the last time he did this in the support channel the discussion exploded.19:47
MenZaRuhig sein :)19:47
lecheMenZa: http://pastebin.com/RCDjDYUq19:48
* MenZa reads.19:49
lechebullgard: last time he discussed this in the support channel the discussion escalated. that is not really helpfully.19:50
leche-y19:50
GPenguinMenZa: okay, i will go for a smoke and relax with a "nutellabrot" after that :)19:51
lecheGPenguin: is right in one point. we have a few supporters that are not really "newbee"-friendly.19:51
MenZaGPenguin: You really need to tone it down a bit if you're expecting to have any situation diffused -- it's hard to find sympathy with this attitude, whether your point is genuine or not.19:51
GPenguinMenZa: thanks a lot for your care! *hug*19:51
GPenguinMenZa: i only need to tone it down because multiple people were bashing me at once19:51
GPenguinand i am observing the hostile and anti social climate on debian channels for too long to be happy about it when this climate comes to ubuntu channels19:52
MenZaTo be fair, I haven't seen anything to point my fingers at done wrong in the ops' conduct so far19:52
m4vGPenguin: you're aware yourself that you're hostile as well?19:53
GPenguinis that a surprise after the experiences i made the last 14 days?19:58
MenZaIt doesn't serve you any good, at the very least19:58
GPenguinmaybe my mistake is to value the code of conduct more than you19:58
MenZaI think everyone who actively engages in the Ubuntu community do it because they value the community, and the pillars on which it is built.19:59
MenZaThere are rotten seeds everywhere, but so far, I haven't seen anything I'd call out foul on.20:00
GPenguinthat depends on your perspective. as staffer or chanop you are not as easily hurt as me when you watch it how newbies are treated badly20:01
GPenguinmy mistake was to speak up20:01
GPenguini see that20:01
MenZaI am in the channels I'm active in.20:01
GPenguinbut i need to speak if if nobody else puts a stop at all this20:01
m4vGPenguin: is not excuse, if you complain about hostility when can't seem to discuss this in a civil way makes your argument pointless20:01
lecheno, your mistake was to speak up at the wrong place in the wrong tone20:01
GPenguinotherwise #ubuntu-de turns into #debian.de20:01
GPenguinnobody needs that here on Freenode20:02
m4vshow respect and consideration is more important than being right about the subject20:02
GPenguini cant show respect for a person who tries to boss me around20:02
GPenguini am 34 years old not 1720:02
MenZaIt doesn't sound like we're going very far here. As far as I can see, nothing's gone wrong. My suggestion is that you, GPenguin, get some sleep. Think about it. At the same time, I see leche admits some users are not exactly following the spirit of Ubuntu very well, so perhaps it'd be an idea if the -de-ops sat down and talked about how to counter this, and sent an e-mail to the -de list emphasising this, once they've found a plan for it.20:03
MenZa(Did that cut off anywhere?)20:03
GPenguinand because everybody knows that i am schizophrenic i am not afraid to address the asperger syndrom as problem20:03
GPenguinbecause it is one20:03
m4vMenZa: nope20:03
GPenguinbut i can see clearly that #ubuntu-irc has a similar problem with the social climate agenda of mine20:04
GPenguini will elaborate on that after eating something20:04
GPenguinbut i will not do it here, dont worry20:04
GPenguini am done here for now20:04
MenZaGPenguin: I'd suggest a good night's sleep. It does wonders.20:04
MenZaI can attest to this fully.20:04
GPenguinnope, i need to complete my mission first before i can go to bed20:04
MenZaTurning this into a crusade won't do anyone any good.20:04
GPenguinmind you - mission is _my_ word not war20:05
MenZa"Atme tief durch, bewahre Ruhe und werde nicht emotional."20:05
GPenguinmission impossible IV20:05
lecheMenZa: yes, those users need to be talked with or such things. most of the time we try to stop them before they step over the border20:05
GPenguinto rescue to well being of every beginner who uses ubuntnu20:05
GPenguinubuntu even20:05
MenZaNoone wants to see this sort of escalation; it's in everyone's interest to resolve things like this quickly and quietly.20:05
MenZaleche: Excellent :)20:06
MenZaGPenguin: See? Mission accomplished. :)20:06
GPenguindaniel holbein (maybe wrong spelling) suggested already to post to the mailing list with my idea20:06
lecheMenZa: i just speak for myself, i will put this on the agenda for the next op-meeting20:06
MenZaleche: awesome20:06
GPenguinan idea about my mission, nothing about war20:07
MenZaGPenguin: I suggest you wait until the next -de-ops meeting has been held and see what conclusions are reached.20:07
GPenguini wont care for #ubuntu-de and #ubuntu-de-ops from now on20:07
abe2kbtw the -de-ops have a deescallation route. but afaik the user wasnt able to use it because he got rude (like here before)20:08
lecheMenZa: well, how do you handle users that are really good supporters but dont welcome every new user with "hey, how can i help you, its ok if you ask 1000 metaquestions"20:08
MenZaHo-hum.20:08
MenZaleche: The issue is well-known in every single major Ubuntu channel. It's about finding a fine line in what policy you adopt. :)20:09
abe2kMenZa: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.ubuntuusers.de%2FLocoTeam%2FIRC&sl=de&tl=en20:09
lecheMenZa: well, but as you see, the line is not fitting for some people.20:09
MenZaabe2k: Ich kann auch Deutsch lesen, und habe meisten davon geliest. ;)20:10
abe2kMenZa: okay :)20:10
m4vleche: I had problems with that too in k-es, well, I still have, but not as much.20:10
MenZaI'm going to be away for a bit; any further notes, leave a /query.20:11
lechem4v: as an op?20:11
lecheMenZa: bye, thank you20:11
abe2kimho this user doesnt want sth to change. he is just a troll. like he did in some debian channel or even #freenode20:12
m4vmostly I try talk to them, that being rude won't do any good, and that ignoring them would be much better if you think their questions are stupid or don't like them20:12
abe2kbut time will tell20:12
m4vleche: first as a regular user, now as I op20:12
m4vbut I had more success when I was a regular user20:12
m4vnow some think that 'cause i'm op I'm in some white horse.20:13
lechei also got this theory that he made up this metaquestions and irc-client-flame-pushing user..20:14
lechebut thats just a theory20:14
lecheok, doesnt look like :). thank you for your time guys20:16
issyl0Hi there.  Could I possibly get my Ubuntu Member cloak please, who do I talk to about that?21:25
issyl0I have just become an Ubuntu Member, woo!21:25
Myrttiwoo!21:26
Myrttiissyl0: could you give the link to your launchpad profile?21:26
issyl0Myrtti: sure - https://edge.launchpad.net/~issyl021:26
Myrttithen we'll just wait, there might be some more questions though21:29
issyl0OK/21:29
m4vPici, jussi01, nhandler, topyli: ^21:33
jussi01niko: VorTechS other staff, please cloak issyl0 with an ubuntu/member cloak.21:48
* issyl0 is being patient :)21:49
nikoissyl0: congrats again21:51
issyl0When a staffer does look in though, could you possibly replace the wikimedia with ubuntu.member stuff.21:51
issyl0Thanks niko!21:51
nikojussi01: cloak updated21:52
issyl0niko: thank you for that21:53
nikoyou're welcome :)21:53
YoBoYhu21:53
YoBoYhi21:53
YoBoYhow to have a cloack on my host?21:56
Myrttiare you an Ubuntu member?21:56
YoBoYyes :)21:56
YoBoYhttps://launchpad.net/~yoboy-leguesh21:56
kinouchoume too21:56
YoBoYsince tonight :p21:56
Myrtticould you give the link to your launchpad profiles, please21:56
kinouchouhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/kinouchou21:57
Myrttikinouchou: launchpad21:57
kinouchouhttps://launchpad.net/~kinouchou21:57
kinouchousorry21:57
YoBoYpfff kinouchou ^^21:57
kinouchouje le faisia en me temps :(21:58
nikojussi01: ping ^21:58
kinouchououps, je le faisais en même temps22:00
YoBoYtanks jussi01 :)22:01
YoBoYtanks Myrtti22:01
jussi01niko: VorTechS other staff, please cloak YoBoY and kinouchou with an ubuntu/member cloak.22:01
lechebtw, what are the requirements for becoming an ubuntu member?22:01
jussi01!member22:01
ubottuWant to become an Ubuntu member? Look at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/processes/newmember22:02
nikoboth cloaked, congrats.22:02
jussi01thanks niko22:02
YoBoYmerci niko :)22:02
Myrtticongrats fellers22:02
kinouchoumerci :)22:04
YoBoYtanks22:05
McPeter;)22:05
YoBoYquestion: is there a way to customize this cloak ?22:05
Myrttino22:06
Myrttinot really22:06
Myrttihow come, what did you have in mind?22:06
McPeterYoBoY, participe à freenode :)22:07
YoBoYubuntu/member/fr.yoboy to have the region of my loco team in it :p22:07
McPetergenre : ubuntu/member/pdpc.21for7.<nick> :)22:07
McPeterYoBoY, rofl22:07
McPeterYoBoY, Ubuntu Member is TEAM not nationality :)22:08
YoBoYbut it's just a question, i don't realy need it :)22:08
McPeterit's fammily22:08
McPeter-m22:08
nikoYoBoY: in fact, it's wrong like that, because there is no project fr22:08
YoBoYMcPeter: my family is also the french team, you are my family :D22:08
McPeterᴖ_ᴖ22:08
YoBoYniko: ok it's by project... i understand22:09
nikoyes, cloak with 2 projects, like mine22:09
* YoBoY 's going to create de french-rule-the-world project22:10
McPeter:)22:10
nikofirst step, i-am-alone22:10
McPeterHAHAH22:10
YoBoYniko: you are killing my dream :'(22:13
kinouchoumy poor yoboy :(22:14
* YoBoY need a hug22:14
YoBoY:p22:14
* kinouchou hugs YoBoY 22:14
* YoBoY hugs kinouchou :)22:15
YoBoYby the way, tanks for the cloak :)22:15
YoBoYgood night everyone (or good morning, or whatever ^^)22:15
kinouchougood night22:19
=== remix_tj is now known as remix_auei
lechehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/leche could this be enough for trying to apply as member? if you say this isnt enough i wont even try it ;)22:53
persialeche: I'm not on the EMEA board, but id your application came before me, I'd ask for the following additional information:22:55
persia1) Your specific role in organising the 2008 Ubucons in Göttingen and links to reports on them with information like what happened, how many people attended, etc.22:56
lecheoh, the link to my launchpad profile is missing22:56
persia2) 3-5 testimonials from current members talking about how you do great stuff and some of their good experiences working with you22:56
persia(oh, and that :) )22:56
persia3) Some links to IRC logs that showed you helping people with particularly complex or interesting problems (show off how well you help folks)22:57
lechepersia: ok, so others should edit my page and give their opinion?22:57
persia4) A bit more resolution regarding how long you've been an Op where, etc.22:58
persialeche: For the testimonials, yes, try to get others to edit the page.22:58
persia(because this shows in the wiki history)22:58
persiaFor the rest of it, edit it yourself.22:58
lecheok, ill gather this information, thank you for your comments22:58
persiaOh, and I'd recommend changing "My contribution to Ubuntu is ..." to "My primary contribution to Ubuntu is ..."22:59
persiaGood luck!22:59
lechethanks :)22:59
m4vleche: you know spanish?23:08
lechem4v: just a little bit, did 2 courses at university23:09
m4vah, I was wondering due to your nick23:09
lechei like spanish alot23:10
lecheits sound ist soo.. fantastico :D23:10
lecheis*23:10
m4vhehe :P23:11
lechem4v: its hard to find difficult problems in ubuntu channels ;)23:28
m4vyeah, irc channels aren't suitable for resolve difficult problems imo23:31
m4vso if there's a difficult problem, there are more chances that It didn't get resolved.23:32
IdleOnem4v: I sort of agree with that, in a large busy channel like #ubuntu it can be very hard for a newbie to keep up and get the help they need but in small channels irc is a great place to get help with complicated issues.23:38
IdleOnenot to mention if the user is having a hard time following the help they can always ask to move to /msg or ##helpmehelpyou23:38
IdleOne:)23:38
IdleOneprovided the helper is willing to go private and I know that it is not recommended to go into private chat.23:40
m4vyes23:44
m4vthe problem of #ubuntu is one hard to tackle23:46
lechein ubuntu channels most questions are trivial. sure, there are difficult questions but most of the time people ask "hows the parameter of one program"23:48
lechethats my impression23:48
IdleOneI don't think it is a problem that can be solved. Honestly I don't see it as a problem.23:48
IdleOneleche: Ubuntu's popularity brings in a lot of new users to the channel and to Linux in general so yes the questions are often trivial to more experienced users23:49
IdleOnebut remember we all started as newbs :)23:49
IdleOnethe newb you help today will one day be experienced and hopefully give back23:50
lecheits completly ok for me, didnt say its bad that you can answer most questions without think too much :)23:50
IdleOnehehe23:50
IdleOneI hear you23:50

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