[00:53] <animalprimate> #join ubuntu-beginners
[03:22] <arand> I have someone who has been dropped to the maintenance shell on a failed fsck, I would suggest running "fsck -fy" but I've had diverse comments on the propriety of that, what do you say?
[03:23] <persia> I say we need better advertisement of good second-level support channels :)
[03:23] <jdong> arand: it can or cannot be the correct thing to do :)
[03:23] <jdong> arand: the "correct" thing to do is do a dd type full backup before attempting a fsck -fy on a corrupted disk
[03:23] <persia> fsck -fy will either fix or competely break the filesystem, depending on the way in which it's broken.  It's very hard to know which will happen in advance without detailed knowledge.
[03:24] <Tm_T> basic rule with everything: avoid --force (;
[03:24] <jdong> Tm_T: except for fsck, IMO
[03:25] <jdong> e2fsck especially may ask you a million (not exaggerating) y/n questions without -f
[03:25] <jdong> and ^C on a fsck is bad etiquette if you regret your decision
[03:25] <Tm_T> jdong: and usually with good reason
[03:25] <jdong> and job control is unavailable in the rescue shell
[03:25] <jdong> Tm_T: indeed. as persia said, fsck -fy is the close-eyes-and-pull-trigger repair method :)
[03:26] <Tm_T> like installing packages with "dpkg -i --force-all"
[03:26] <jdong> oh that's typically just a bad idea period :)
[03:28] <arand> Ok, /home is on separate partition, so I intend to recommend the trigger...
[03:29] <jdong> arand: please give a you-should-dd-if-you-care disclaimer first :)
[03:29] <jdong> there is a nonzero risk of completely trashing the filesystem and ending up worse than where he is now
[03:29] <persia> arand: Try recommending to boot a liveCD first, perform a dd backup, force-mount the filesystem, attempt to extract /etc, and then pull the trigger.  That makes is less likely to be horrible when something goes wrong.
[03:29] <persia> Does anyone remember the channel name that was *supposed* to provide second-level support?
[03:30] <Tm_T> persia: #kubuntu
[03:30] <jdong> there's second-level support?
[03:30]  * Tm_T hides
[03:30] <jdong> #ubuntu-devel?
[03:30] <jdong> ;-)
[03:32] <persia> :p
[03:32]  * persia reads mail archives
[10:36] <arand> Is kokoveron in #ubuntu a bot? has been told countless times to stop...
[10:36] <arand> oh, nvm
[10:45] <Myrtti> next time will end up him being banned
[10:45] <Myrtti> like so
[11:22] <erUSUL> !grub2
[11:29] <rww> erUSUL: You can do /msg ubottu !factoid instead of calling them randomly in channels...
[11:30] <erUSUL> rww: ok; did not know it was so annoying given the activity of this channel. but point taken
[12:09] <DJones> Might be worth keeping an eye on crixtiano in #u looking at the command they've just posted, enough people have warned them about it
[18:58] <GPenguin> leche: please invite the other asperger guy k1l too
[19:00] <GPenguin> [20:00] <GPenguin> wenn sich leute schon "kill" nennen kannst du raten was kommt wenn du eine andere meinung vertrittst
[19:00] <GPenguin> [20:00] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to sdx23
[19:00] <GPenguin> [20:00] * You have been kicked from #ubuntu-de by sdx23 (you should know better)
[19:00] <GPenguin> absolutely against the Code of Conduct
[19:00] <GPenguin> AGAIN;
[19:01] <GPenguin> so bring these people online, i need to escalate this
[19:01] <k1l> hi
[19:01] <bekks> hi k1l
[19:01] <GPenguin> the asperger syndrome can not rule #ubuntu-de
[19:01] <GPenguin> we have the code of conduct for a reason
[19:01] <k1l> GPenguin: what about u stop ur private war?
[19:01] <GPenguin> and we want to be respectful
[19:02] <GPenguin> k1l: and we dont want to speak about war only because your language is full of violence
[19:02] <bekks> you are not respectful since calling others to have asperger.
[19:02] <GPenguin> why?
[19:02] <GPenguin> i think you are too immature for IRC
[19:02] <bekks> i dont know WHY you are acting that way, but you are.
[19:02] <GPenguin> bring the chat log to #ubuntu-irc and show me one sign of disrespect from my side
[19:02] <k1l> what about u accept the channel rules and keep the support-channel clear for support. ur offtopic doesnt belong to the supportchannel
[19:03] <k1l> and to flame about my nick doesnt make u act respectfull
[19:03] <GPenguin> a person with asperger who gives himself the name "kill" who is defacing beginners and banning quickly is addressed by me not as sign of disrespect but because its growing out to a massive problem on the german chat rooms
[19:04] <GPenguin> and bekks is suspcious to have asperger too
[19:04] <k1l> even to call all supporters to have the asperger syndrom
[19:04] <GPenguin> means they disqualify for moderation roles
[19:04] <bekks> GPenguin: please stop your suspicions.
[19:04] <GPenguin> because they bring violent language to the german ubuntu channels
[19:04] <k1l> the support channel got a quite good standing in the freenode services. so what is ur real problem with this?
[19:04] <bekks> I am no moderator nor op anyway.
[19:04] <GPenguin> they constantly attack newbies with the comment "your question is off-topic" while the situation asks for a polite welcome to these people
[19:05] <k1l> GPenguin: u wanna make a private war to become admin?
[19:05] <GPenguin> what?
[19:05] <GPenguin> i want german ubuntu channels to be newbie friendly
[19:05] <k1l> GPenguin: they are
[19:05] <GPenguin> if you dont stop with your nonesense about war i can escalate to the mailing lists
[19:05] <k1l> lol
[19:06] <GPenguin> thats funny for you?
[19:06] <k1l> u r talking about escalating all the time
[19:06] <GPenguin> thats a hint with polite language, you speak about war which is violent
[19:06] <k1l> we tried to find a way with u in our own admin channel. u got very rude so u got kicked
[19:06] <GPenguin> thats a hint with polite language, you speak about war which is violent
[19:06] <GPenguin> show my rudeness
[19:06] <GPenguin> i am curious
[19:06] <leche> # 20:18:09 <dfs> [20:13] * [alamar] (~alamar@BOfH.euirc.net): Julian D. Seifert
[19:06] <GPenguin> thats old rubbish
[19:07] <leche> http://nopaste.euirc.net/index.php?id=06a48b6ac9
[19:07] <leche> heres your rudeness
[19:07] <GPenguin> thats DAYS OLD
[19:07] <GPenguin> today, we have the 2nd of march young boy
[19:07] <GPenguin> quote something from today that shows rudeness
[19:07] <k1l> GPenguin: stop trolling around
 bekks: GPenguin hat hier zum Thema gesprochen.
[19:08] <GPenguin> that was right before you banned me, JERKFACE.
[19:08] <k1l> *sigh*
[19:08] <bekks> well, please dont mix around multiple conversation streams.
[19:08] <k1l> thats all. bb guys
[19:08] <GPenguin> you disqualify for moderation roles because you call me a troll
[19:08] <bekks> ME, i was talking with bullgard.
[19:08] <bekks> and I'd better leave too. byebye.
[19:09] <GPenguin> ---
[19:09] <GPenguin> i join right now:
[19:09] <GPenguin> [20:09] <GPenguin> bullgard: komm mal bitte auf #ubuntu-irc
[19:09] <GPenguin> [20:09] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to k1l
[19:09] <GPenguin> [20:09] * You have left channel #ubuntu-de (requested by k1l (GPenguin))
[19:09] <GPenguin> see how abusive they are?
[19:09] <GPenguin> and this paste from leche was a private conversation from days ago which was happening on a totally different network
[19:10] <GPenguin> its on somebody with higher priviledges within the IRC Team to stop these asperger people and their violent attitude
[19:10] <leche> do i need to paste the conversation in #ubuntu-de-op too?
[19:11] <GPenguin> because we are slowly getting a climate like on #debian.de on german ubuntu channels
[19:11] <GPenguin> i am willing to bring this up on #freenode again if nobody feels called
[19:11] <GPenguin> and i am also willing to post to several mailing lists if 1 single person calls me a troll again
[19:12] <leche> they will tell you again they wont do anything
[19:12] <GPenguin> or bans me for no rule violation
[19:12] <GPenguin> leche: shut the heck up already
[19:12] <leche> thats it, you violated the rules
[19:12] <Myrtti> GPenguin: quite rude...
[19:12] <GPenguin> leche: go back to your playground
[19:12] <GPenguin> Myrtti: i am fed up already
[19:12] <Tm_T> GPenguin: that's not nicely said, and no there's no excuses for rudeness
[19:13] <GPenguin> Tm_T: if you look at my experiences from the last 7 days, then you are sorry _together_ with me
[19:13] <GPenguin> because we are slowly getting a climate like on #debian.de on german ubuntu channels
[19:13] <GPenguin> thats very frustrating
[19:13] <GPenguin> they are bashing newbies for nonesense
[19:13] <GPenguin> they make up fake rules and ban people
[19:13] <GPenguin> because they obviously suffer from the asperger syndrom and should not play moderation officers
[19:13] <leche> the rules are no fake rules and well documented
[19:14] <GPenguin> leche: i said shut up, i had enough of your nonesense on #ubuntu-de
[19:14] <leche> you referred to read them, though
[19:14] <GPenguin> leche: then show me 1 single rule violation of _today_
[19:14] <GPenguin> [19:59] <GPenguin> aber verlagern wir das besser auf einen admin channel damit sich auch was ändert
[19:14] <GPenguin> [19:59] * KEBA (~mario@f048163068.adsl.alicedsl.de) has joined #ubuntu-de
[19:14] <GPenguin> [19:59] <<leche>> GPenguin: der deutsche op channel ist #ubuntu-de-op
[19:14] <GPenguin> [19:59] <<bullgard>> bekks: GPenguin hat hier zum Thema gesprochen.
[19:14] <GPenguin> [19:59] * caillean bewirft die leute mal mit rosa wattebäuschchen *
[19:14] <GPenguin> [19:59] <GPenguin> leche: der reicht hier nicht aus, wir sollten auf #ubuntu-irc
[19:14] <GPenguin> [19:59] <<bekks>> bullgard: ...
[19:14] <GPenguin> [20:00] <GPenguin> bullgard: bitte renne in keinen ban wegen mir
[19:14] <GPenguin> [20:00] <<leche>> bullgard: GPenguin bekks xMine, die diskussion ist hier nun beendet.
[19:14] <GPenguin> [20:00] <<bekks>> leche: ack syn.
[19:14] <GPenguin> [20:00] <GPenguin> wenn sich leute schon "kill" nennen kannst du raten was kommt wenn du eine andere meinung vertrittst
[19:14] <DreamThief> GPenguin: STOP IT
[19:15] <leche> GPenguin: you continued bashing on the situation of #ubuntu-de in the support-chan after 3 ops told you to stop it.
[19:15] <GPenguin> [20:00] * ChanServ gives channel operator status to sdx23
[19:15] <GPenguin> [20:00] * You have been kicked from #ubuntu-de by sdx23 (you should know better)
[19:15] <GPenguin> [20:08] * Now talking on #ubuntu-de
[19:15] <GPenguin> [20:08] * Topic for #ubuntu-de is: Der deutschsprachige Support-Channel von Ubuntu - http://ubuntuusers.de | Channelregeln:  http://tinyurl.com/Channelregeln | Paste:  http://paste.ubuntuusers.de/ | Wiki: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de | CoC:  http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Ubuntu/Code_of_Conduct | Offtopic: #ubuntu-de-offtopic | Rufen von OPs mittels "alarm"
[19:15] <DreamThief> lol
[19:15] <DreamThief> jussi01: thx ;)
[19:15] <jussi01> GPenguin: use a pastebin please
[19:15] <GPenguin> "lol, thanks for the ban"  <-- do you finally see what i mean?
[19:15]  * DreamThief .oO( he should rather use a trashbin and put himself inside. )
[19:16] <GPenguin> THAT is their spirit
[19:16] <GPenguin> show me how that complies with the code of conduct
[19:16] <GPenguin> i am curious
[19:16] <Pici> !appeals
[19:16] <GPenguin> because _i_ am the newbie and they are those guys who follow the code of conduct since how long?
[19:16] <GPenguin> Pici: a bit late for an appeal... dont you think?
[19:17] <Pici> GPenguin: Then I'm not sure what you hope to accomplish here.
[19:17] <GPenguin> Pici: which mailing list is best suited for a long, post in german language that covers this problem?
[19:17] <Pici> GPenguin: There is none to my knowledge.
[19:17] <GPenguin> because we are slowly getting a climate like on #debian.de on german ubuntu channels
[19:18] <MenZa> I would say this is a case for the German LoCo team to deal with, perhaps on a forthcoming LoCo meeting?
[19:18] <jussi01> GPenguin: the ircc one mentioned in the !appeals factoid, we have a german speaker who can fill us in
[19:18] <GPenguin> so you guys agree that german ubuntu channels should absorb the hostile and anti social climate of gentoo and debian channels?
[19:18] <KaiL> GPenguin, then we won't discuss this now..
[19:18] <GPenguin> KaiL: not?
[19:18] <GPenguin> so i better bring this up on #freenode?
[19:18] <Pici> GPenguin: I don't think we can make any comment on the situation until we've seen the facts.
[19:18] <jussi01> However, you should of course take it up with the german ops as a first point of call
[19:19] <GPenguin> Pici: you saw facts live on channel ... how they were treating me
[19:19] <DreamThief> GPenguin: come on, the initial problem was your offtopic talk in our support channel und you have been asked to use the offtopic channel. and some of our supporters told you that starting a  discussion about the best irc client would rather lead to a flamewar than something usefull. what's so bad about that?
[19:19] <GPenguin> "lol, thanks for the ban" as reaction when i accidently pasted the log instead of the url
[19:19] <GPenguin> perfect example
[19:19] <GPenguin> no, DreamThief is not telling the truth
[19:19] <leche> he is.
[19:20] <GPenguin> there is a crowd of 5 channel ops who play the super cop who bans fast
[19:20] <DreamThief> you don't need to go off like a rocket.
[19:20] <GPenguin> that is the main problem not me
[19:20] <DreamThief> hm
[19:20] <GPenguin> because i received private messages from a lot of people so far who told me to go on, because they also dont like this anti social climate on #ubuntu-de
[19:20] <GPenguin> i can post to any mailing list you like
[19:21] <leche> do.
[19:21] <DreamThief> come on
[19:21] <GPenguin> or i can keep trying to post to #freenode till somebody gets fedup
[19:21] <MenZa> GPenguin: #freenode has nothing to do with this issue :)
[19:21] <GPenguin> MenZa: harassment of users is a network problem
[19:21] <Pici> #freenode will not interfere with channel operations.
[19:21] <leche> MenZa: he told him 10 times but he didnt want to listen.
[19:21] <leche> they*
[19:21] <DreamThief> d'oh.
[19:21] <DreamThief> I give up with this.
[19:22] <GPenguin> we are slowly getting a hostile and anti social climate like on #debian.de on german ubuntu channels
[19:22] <GPenguin> and it can be seen as harassment of new users from chanops side
[19:22] <GPenguin> thats a network problem
[19:22] <MenZa> Right, would anyone be so kind as to link me to full unedited logs of this, and I'll see if I can make some sense of it
[19:22] <leche> MenZa: do you speak german?
[19:22] <DreamThief> GPenguin: well but what do you think your behaviour will lead to?
[19:22] <MenZa> leche: Nur ein Bisschen, aber ich kann viel verstanden :)
[19:22] <bullgard> I support GPenguin's point of view.
[19:23] <GPenguin> Pici: i name you 4-5 people who should move from their moderation position from #ubuntu-de to #debian.de and everything is fine
[19:23] <GPenguin> so the rest of us can welcome new users as the code of conduct suggests
[19:24] <KaiL> "us"?
[19:24] <bullgard> Yes: us.
[19:24] <bullgard> The ubuntu community.
[19:24] <KaiL> I haven't seen you before...
[19:24] <bullgard> If you have seen me before is irrelevant.
[19:25] <KaiL> not you, the Penguin
[19:25] <bullgard> KaiL: So please make more precise startements, ploease.
[19:25] <bullgard> s/startments/statements/
[19:28] <GPenguin> [20:06] <<leche>> # 20:18:09 <dfs> [20:13] * [alamar] (~alamar@BOfH.euirc.net): Julian D. Seifert
[19:28] <GPenguin> [20:07] <GPenguin> thats old rubbish
[19:28] <GPenguin> [20:07] <<leche>> http://nopaste.euirc.net/index.php?id=06a48b6ac9
[19:29] <GPenguin> ^^  and this here has nothing to do with ubuntu or freenode
[19:29] <m4v> GPenguin: please don't paste here
[19:29] <GPenguin> he is a warez guy from euIRC
[19:29] <GPenguin> and IRC-Net
[19:29] <MenZa> I'm reading the logs now.
[19:29] <GPenguin> that was pasted here by leche
[19:29] <GPenguin> MenZa: do you speak some german by chance?
[19:30] <MenZa> GPenguin: Nur ein Bisschen, aber ich verstehe meisteins.
[19:30] <GPenguin> [20:24] <<bullgard>> The ubuntu community.  <-- danke
[19:30] <leche> MenZa: the logs from euirc just show how GPenguin behaves when hes upset.
[19:30] <leche> MenZa: its not the actual incident
[19:30] <leche> wait a moment
[19:30] <GPenguin> MenZa: sorry that you have to go through all the mess from several days ago. it was not my intention to invite these violent chanops to bring this old rubbish up again
[19:31] <leche> this is the actual one: http://pastebin.com/F11sn3Ep
[19:31] <MenZa> leche: I'm looking at the incident from the LoCo bot :)
[19:31] <MenZa> http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/2010/03/02/%23ubuntu-de.html
[19:31] <GPenguin> today i was not offending a single rule and was banned twice - again!
[19:31] <leche> yepp
[19:31] <leche> GPenguin: you were
[19:31] <GPenguin> only because they are afraid i could manage that they are removed as chanops
[19:31] <GPenguin> which is what i desire _now_
[19:31] <m4v> GPenguin: you were muted
[19:31] <leche> you were told several times not to do this discussion in the supportchannel.
[19:31] <GPenguin> m4v: same effect, its a ban
[19:31] <m4v> is not.
[19:31] <GPenguin> its violence
[19:31] <GPenguin> for no reason
[19:31] <jussi01> Do the german channels have their own version of guidelines or do you use the english ones we supply?
[19:32] <GPenguin> because i tried to calm bullgard down that nothing happens to him how it happens to me
[19:32] <GPenguin> do you get it?
[19:32] <leche> jussi01: we have a set of rules described here, but Gpenguin refused to read them (link following)
[19:32] <GPenguin> because some german chanops are _violent_
[19:32] <leche> http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/LocoTeam/IRC
[19:32] <GPenguin> leche: especially you. thats why: the asperger syndrome problem
[19:32] <m4v> GPenguin: it wasn't for "no reason" you pasted a full log here
[19:32] <MenZa> I assume you mean "trigger-happy" when you say "violent", GPenguin
[19:32] <bullgard> leche: No, The logs clearly show that GPenguin tried to help newcomers in the #ubuntu-de channel to get answered their questions.
[19:33] <GPenguin> the #debian.de problem mixes
[19:33] <DreamThief> okay, now can you tell me how we can be violent to you if we are interacting via irc ..?
[19:33] <GPenguin> people with asperger syndrome should not play moderation roles, because they are violent chanops
[19:33] <Myrtti> can you people  calm down?
[19:33] <GPenguin> DreamThief: you call people trolls for no reason
[19:33] <GPenguin> newbies are _not_ trolls. they are PEOPLE!
[19:33] <GPenguin> code of conduct!
[19:34] <bullgard> Yes indeed.
[19:34] <MenZa> Right, let me get this straight--#ubuntu-de is a traffic-heavy channel, which, like #ubuntu, encourages offtopic talk in the -offtopic channel. A user requested suggestions for IRC channels, was asked not to ask meta questions, and a number of people joined in to suggest their favourite clients. All in all, a pretty peaceful discussion.
[19:34] <GPenguin> MenZa: correct
[19:34] <DreamThief> GPenguin: come on, you're not the center of the universe. how can you be so damn shure that your sight of the things is the only true?
[19:34] <MenZa> That said, there were calls to take the issue to #ubuntu-de-offtopic
 newbies are _not_ trolls. they are PEOPLE! << well, most of them..
[19:34] <GPenguin> MenZa: but 4-5 people on the access list on #ubuntu-de are taking it too far with their anti social attitude
[19:34] <bullgard> MenZa: Yes.
[19:34] <GPenguin> MenZa: and its ruininig the social climate for the german ubuntu community
[19:35] <MenZa> These calls were ignored, and the discussion escalated, pretty much landing us where we are now.
[19:35] <DreamThief> MenZa: exactly
[19:35] <GPenguin> MenZa: i see that as harassment of users by 4-5 chanops
[19:35] <KaiL> GPenguin, are you trying to make a record in "insults per Minute"?
[19:35] <GPenguin> MenZa: and as you can see is #ubuntu-irc not capable of fixing this problem
[19:35] <GPenguin> KaiL: please shut up if you have nothing positive to add
[19:36] <MenZa> Guys, let's all just *calm* *down*
[19:36] <GPenguin> okay :)
[19:36] <GPenguin> i am calm
[19:36] <MenZa> Insults and spiteful remarks solve nothing; let's be constructive instead
[19:36] <m4v> GPenguin: y'know, you're a pretty violent person for describe a mute as violence
[19:36] <GPenguin> m4v: dude. i fight alone against bans and defacements
[19:36] <GPenguin> only bullgard speaks for me, do you realize that?
[19:36] <bullgard> Some channel operators in #ubuntu-de take the accusation "offtopic" as a big stick to frighten newcomers and get them off the channel.
[19:37] <MenZa> The particular issue in question seems to be a small, rather excusable thing -- user goes offtopic, user is warned, user is kicked, ideally -- situation dissolved.
[19:37] <m4v> GPenguin: you don't need to fight, just talk
[19:37] <GPenguin> so its kind of natural that i get excited, dont you think?
[19:37] <GPenguin> even more natural if you know the problem with #debian.de on Freenode
[19:37] <m4v> GPenguin: we're all hearing you, asking somebody to "shut up" is over the top
[19:37] <GPenguin> there is a reason why i am defending the ubuntu code of conduct against asperger people
[19:37] <MenZa> bullgard: I don't know how high-traffic the -de channel is, nor do I know what policies the LoCo team have put in place. In the -dk channels, we're not too worried if people go meta or directly offtopic in our support channel, but in #ubuntu, it's just too much traffic all at once
[19:38] <GPenguin> m4v: i did not throat punch him :P
[19:38] <leche> MenZa: he did this a few days ago, where a user was told not to ask metaquestions. he nearly flipped out and was really insultin in #ubuntu-de-op
[19:38] <Tm_T> GPenguin: stop using the "asperger" as some kind of insult
[19:38] <GPenguin> leche: forget about your old rubbish already. thats not going to help the situation
[19:38] <GPenguin> Tm_T: its no insult. its a fact
[19:38] <DreamThief> ...
[19:38] <bullgard> MenZa: The traffic in the channel #ubuntu-de is at maximum a tenth of that in #ubuntu.
[19:38] <GPenguin> people with asperger syndrome should not play moderation roles, because they are violent chanops
[19:38] <MenZa> leche: I don't know what preceeded this incident, I'm just looking at this particular issue
[19:38] <Tm_T> GPenguin: you have seen their diagnoses?
[19:39] <MenZa> GPenguin: I think I'm doing a pretty good job, aren't I? :)
[19:39] <MenZa> Anyway.
[19:39] <GPenguin> Tm_T: i am qualified enough to judge people as they judge newbies who are obviously not people but trolls
[19:39] <KaiL> bullgard, 1/10 of "far to much to follow" is still to much to do a good support
[19:39] <GPenguin> MenZa: you have the love of christel. thats why you are so nice :P
[19:39] <Tm_T> GPenguin: no, stop it, right now
[19:39] <radoe> GPenguin: what is your matter with asperger? I'm one of the ubuntu-de ops, I have no asperger and I don't like how you talk about people with a desease.
[19:39] <GPenguin> Tm_T: are you an asperger too?
[19:39] <Pici> Does it matter?
[19:39] <Myrtti> nnnnggghhhhhhh
[19:40] <GPenguin> yes
[19:40] <MenZa> No, it doesn't.
[19:40] <Tm_T> GPenguin: no, but I know plenty of them, and it's totally irrelevant
[19:40] <GPenguin> so when newbies are defaced as trolls you guys have no problem, but beware somebody pushes the "beware of aspergers" button then all jump in
[19:40] <GPenguin> I SEE!
[19:40] <GPenguin> lets make sure we have this logged
[19:41] <MenZa> GPenguin, you feel harassed in #ubuntu-de; is that how I am to understand the whole situation?
[19:41] <GPenguin> brb
[19:41] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[19:41] <Tm_T> GPenguin: we have logbots here already (:
[19:41] <KaiL> "everybody is an antisocial idiot; I'm the only good guy"?
[19:41] <MenZa> I'm not going to continue mediating this unless you drop the "asperger" card.
[19:41] <DreamThief> KaiL: exactly that'
[19:41] <Tm_T> anyway, sauna for me ->
[19:41] <DreamThief> that's the exxence of all that.
[19:41] <GPenguin> MenZa: you see how i am "fighting" against a horde of aspergers? :D
[19:41] <KaiL> ...Geisterfahrer...
[19:41] <GPenguin> but i am still calm even tho i am schizophrenic
[19:41] <GPenguin> KaiL: right!
[19:42] <bullgard> GPenguin: Please calm down.  In your interest and in the interest of the matter you are bringing up.
[19:42] <GPenguin> totally right, und genau deshalb eskalieren wird das auf mailing listen damit leute wie du ihren "war" endlich bekommen
[19:42] <GPenguin> asperger people battle schizophrenic people for being trolls
[19:43] <MenZa> Would someone give some input as to how the Ubuntu DE LoCo is managed? Is the IRC channel directly managed by the LoCo?
[19:43] <bullgard> GPenguin: A "war" is not in the intrest of Ubuntu and of Ubuntu'*s newcomers.
[19:43] <GPenguin> thats the story :)
[19:43] <GPenguin> thats the #debian.de story and 4-5 german ubuntu chanops make this the ubuntu story aswell
[19:43] <GPenguin> exactly thats why i am ranting here
[19:43] <GPenguin> because you kill the purpose of the ubuntu code of conduct
[19:43] <bullgard> GPenguin: Ranting is no good.
[19:43] <GPenguin> because _i_ am going to protect newbies and other schizo people
[19:44] <GPenguin> and when i have to mail bomb Mark himself
[19:44] <MenZa> That won't do you much good.
[19:44] <MenZa> I repeat -- would someone give some input as to how the Ubuntu DE LoCo is managed? Is the IRC channel directly managed by the LoCo?
[19:44] <leche> MenZa: i sent a link allrdy, wait
[19:45] <MenZa> leche: Oh, alright
[19:45] <leche> MenZa: http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/LocoTeam/IRC
[19:45] <leche> MenZa: GPenguin refused to read the rules.
[19:46] <bullgard> leche: GPenguin defended the ingterests of Ubuntu newcomers against humiliation.
[19:46] <MenZa> I understand this was taken up with the #ubuntu-de-op channel as well. Could anyone outline that process?
[19:46] <leche> bullgard: he was told 3 times to stop discussing this in the support channel.
[19:47] <leche> bullgard: and he kept continuing
[19:47] <GPenguin> bullgard: could you please /query me your email address so i can stay in contact with you?
[19:47] <GPenguin> the chat here seems pointless
[19:47] <leche> MenZa: do you want a log of this discussion?
[19:47] <bullgard> leche: Yes. And this telling was yelling and was not necessary.
[19:47] <MenZa> leche: Sure.
[19:47] <MenZa> GPenguin: Can I remind you that the LocoTeam/IRC page says "Atme tief durch, bewahre Ruhe und werde nicht emotional." in the "Ich fühle mich von einem/den OPs ungerecht behandelt" section -- please try to keep that in mind.
[19:47] <leche> bullgard: the last time he did this in the support channel the discussion exploded.
[19:47] <MenZa> Ruhig sein :)
[19:48] <leche> MenZa: http://pastebin.com/RCDjDYUq
[19:49]  * MenZa reads.
[19:50] <leche> bullgard: last time he discussed this in the support channel the discussion escalated. that is not really helpfully.
[19:50] <leche> -y
[19:51] <GPenguin> MenZa: okay, i will go for a smoke and relax with a "nutellabrot" after that :)
[19:51] <leche> GPenguin: is right in one point. we have a few supporters that are not really "newbee"-friendly.
[19:51] <MenZa> GPenguin: You really need to tone it down a bit if you're expecting to have any situation diffused -- it's hard to find sympathy with this attitude, whether your point is genuine or not.
[19:51] <GPenguin> MenZa: thanks a lot for your care! *hug*
[19:51] <GPenguin> MenZa: i only need to tone it down because multiple people were bashing me at once
[19:52] <GPenguin> and i am observing the hostile and anti social climate on debian channels for too long to be happy about it when this climate comes to ubuntu channels
[19:52] <MenZa> To be fair, I haven't seen anything to point my fingers at done wrong in the ops' conduct so far
[19:53] <m4v> GPenguin: you're aware yourself that you're hostile as well?
[19:58] <GPenguin> is that a surprise after the experiences i made the last 14 days?
[19:58] <MenZa> It doesn't serve you any good, at the very least
[19:58] <GPenguin> maybe my mistake is to value the code of conduct more than you
[19:59] <MenZa> I think everyone who actively engages in the Ubuntu community do it because they value the community, and the pillars on which it is built.
[20:00] <MenZa> There are rotten seeds everywhere, but so far, I haven't seen anything I'd call out foul on.
[20:01] <GPenguin> that depends on your perspective. as staffer or chanop you are not as easily hurt as me when you watch it how newbies are treated badly
[20:01] <GPenguin> my mistake was to speak up
[20:01] <GPenguin> i see that
[20:01] <MenZa> I am in the channels I'm active in.
[20:01] <GPenguin> but i need to speak if if nobody else puts a stop at all this
[20:01] <m4v> GPenguin: is not excuse, if you complain about hostility when can't seem to discuss this in a civil way makes your argument pointless
[20:01] <leche> no, your mistake was to speak up at the wrong place in the wrong tone
[20:01] <GPenguin> otherwise #ubuntu-de turns into #debian.de
[20:02] <GPenguin> nobody needs that here on Freenode
[20:02] <m4v> show respect and consideration is more important than being right about the subject
[20:02] <GPenguin> i cant show respect for a person who tries to boss me around
[20:02] <GPenguin> i am 34 years old not 17
[20:03] <MenZa> It doesn't sound like we're going very far here. As far as I can see, nothing's gone wrong. My suggestion is that you, GPenguin, get some sleep. Think about it. At the same time, I see leche admits some users are not exactly following the spirit of Ubuntu very well, so perhaps it'd be an idea if the -de-ops sat down and talked about how to counter this, and sent an e-mail to the -de list emphasising this, once they've found a plan for it.
[20:03] <MenZa> (Did that cut off anywhere?)
[20:03] <GPenguin> and because everybody knows that i am schizophrenic i am not afraid to address the asperger syndrom as problem
[20:03] <GPenguin> because it is one
[20:03] <m4v> MenZa: nope
[20:04] <GPenguin> but i can see clearly that #ubuntu-irc has a similar problem with the social climate agenda of mine
[20:04] <GPenguin> i will elaborate on that after eating something
[20:04] <GPenguin> but i will not do it here, dont worry
[20:04] <GPenguin> i am done here for now
[20:04] <MenZa> GPenguin: I'd suggest a good night's sleep. It does wonders.
[20:04] <MenZa> I can attest to this fully.
[20:04] <GPenguin> nope, i need to complete my mission first before i can go to bed
[20:04] <MenZa> Turning this into a crusade won't do anyone any good.
[20:05] <GPenguin> mind you - mission is _my_ word not war
[20:05] <MenZa> "Atme tief durch, bewahre Ruhe und werde nicht emotional."
[20:05] <GPenguin> mission impossible IV
[20:05] <leche> MenZa: yes, those users need to be talked with or such things. most of the time we try to stop them before they step over the border
[20:05] <GPenguin> to rescue to well being of every beginner who uses ubuntnu
[20:05] <GPenguin> ubuntu even
[20:05] <MenZa> Noone wants to see this sort of escalation; it's in everyone's interest to resolve things like this quickly and quietly.
[20:06] <MenZa> leche: Excellent :)
[20:06] <MenZa> GPenguin: See? Mission accomplished. :)
[20:06] <GPenguin> daniel holbein (maybe wrong spelling) suggested already to post to the mailing list with my idea
[20:06] <leche> MenZa: i just speak for myself, i will put this on the agenda for the next op-meeting
[20:06] <MenZa> leche: awesome
[20:07] <GPenguin> an idea about my mission, nothing about war
[20:07] <MenZa> GPenguin: I suggest you wait until the next -de-ops meeting has been held and see what conclusions are reached.
[20:07] <GPenguin> i wont care for #ubuntu-de and #ubuntu-de-ops from now on
[20:08] <abe2k> btw the -de-ops have a deescallation route. but afaik the user wasnt able to use it because he got rude (like here before)
[20:08] <leche> MenZa: well, how do you handle users that are really good supporters but dont welcome every new user with "hey, how can i help you, its ok if you ask 1000 metaquestions"
[20:08] <MenZa> Ho-hum.
[20:09] <MenZa> leche: The issue is well-known in every single major Ubuntu channel. It's about finding a fine line in what policy you adopt. :)
[20:09] <abe2k> MenZa: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwiki.ubuntuusers.de%2FLocoTeam%2FIRC&sl=de&tl=en
[20:09] <leche> MenZa: well, but as you see, the line is not fitting for some people.
[20:10] <MenZa> abe2k: Ich kann auch Deutsch lesen, und habe meisten davon geliest. ;)
[20:10] <abe2k> MenZa: okay :)
[20:10] <m4v> leche: I had problems with that too in k-es, well, I still have, but not as much.
[20:11] <MenZa> I'm going to be away for a bit; any further notes, leave a /query.
[20:11] <leche> m4v: as an op?
[20:11] <leche> MenZa: bye, thank you
[20:12] <abe2k> imho this user doesnt want sth to change. he is just a troll. like he did in some debian channel or even #freenode
[20:12] <m4v> mostly I try talk to them, that being rude won't do any good, and that ignoring them would be much better if you think their questions are stupid or don't like them
[20:12] <abe2k> but time will tell
[20:12] <m4v> leche: first as a regular user, now as I op
[20:12] <m4v> but I had more success when I was a regular user
[20:13] <m4v> now some think that 'cause i'm op I'm in some white horse.
[20:14] <leche> i also got this theory that he made up this metaquestions and irc-client-flame-pushing user..
[20:14] <leche> but thats just a theory
[20:16] <leche> ok, doesnt look like :). thank you for your time guys
[21:25] <issyl0> Hi there.  Could I possibly get my Ubuntu Member cloak please, who do I talk to about that?
[21:25] <issyl0> I have just become an Ubuntu Member, woo!
[21:26] <Myrtti> woo!
[21:26] <Myrtti> issyl0: could you give the link to your launchpad profile?
[21:26] <issyl0> Myrtti: sure - https://edge.launchpad.net/~issyl0
[21:29] <Myrtti> then we'll just wait, there might be some more questions though
[21:29] <issyl0> OK/
[21:33] <m4v> Pici, jussi01, nhandler, topyli: ^
[21:48] <jussi01> niko: VorTechS other staff, please cloak issyl0 with an ubuntu/member cloak.
[21:49]  * issyl0 is being patient :)
[21:51] <niko> issyl0: congrats again
[21:51] <issyl0> When a staffer does look in though, could you possibly replace the wikimedia with ubuntu.member stuff.
[21:51] <issyl0> Thanks niko!
[21:52] <niko> jussi01: cloak updated
[21:53] <issyl0> niko: thank you for that
[21:53] <niko> you're welcome :)
[21:53] <YoBoY> hu
[21:53] <YoBoY> hi
[21:56] <YoBoY> how to have a cloack on my host?
[21:56] <Myrtti> are you an Ubuntu member?
[21:56] <YoBoY> yes :)
[21:56] <YoBoY> https://launchpad.net/~yoboy-leguesh
[21:56] <kinouchou> me too
[21:56] <YoBoY> since tonight :p
[21:56] <Myrtti> could you give the link to your launchpad profiles, please
[21:57] <kinouchou> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/kinouchou
[21:57] <Myrtti> kinouchou: launchpad
[21:57] <kinouchou> https://launchpad.net/~kinouchou
[21:57] <kinouchou> sorry
[21:57] <YoBoY> pfff kinouchou ^^
[21:58] <kinouchou> je le faisia en me temps :(
[21:58] <niko> jussi01: ping ^
[22:00] <kinouchou> oups, je le faisais en même temps
[22:01] <YoBoY> tanks jussi01 :)
[22:01] <YoBoY> tanks Myrtti
[22:01] <jussi01> niko: VorTechS other staff, please cloak YoBoY and kinouchou with an ubuntu/member cloak.
[22:01] <leche> btw, what are the requirements for becoming an ubuntu member?
[22:01] <jussi01> !member
[22:02] <niko> both cloaked, congrats.
[22:02] <jussi01> thanks niko
[22:02] <YoBoY> merci niko :)
[22:02] <Myrtti> congrats fellers
[22:04] <kinouchou> merci :)
[22:05] <YoBoY> tanks
[22:05] <McPeter> ;)
[22:05] <YoBoY> question: is there a way to customize this cloak ?
[22:06] <Myrtti> no
[22:06] <Myrtti> not really
[22:06] <Myrtti> how come, what did you have in mind?
[22:07] <McPeter> YoBoY, participe à freenode :)
[22:07] <YoBoY> ubuntu/member/fr.yoboy to have the region of my loco team in it :p
[22:07] <McPeter> genre : ubuntu/member/pdpc.21for7.<nick> :)
[22:07] <McPeter> YoBoY, rofl
[22:08] <McPeter> YoBoY, Ubuntu Member is TEAM not nationality :)
[22:08] <YoBoY> but it's just a question, i don't realy need it :)
[22:08] <McPeter> it's fammily
[22:08] <McPeter> -m
[22:08] <niko> YoBoY: in fact, it's wrong like that, because there is no project fr
[22:08] <YoBoY> McPeter: my family is also the french team, you are my family :D
[22:08] <McPeter> ᴖ_ᴖ
[22:09] <YoBoY> niko: ok it's by project... i understand
[22:09] <niko> yes, cloak with 2 projects, like mine
[22:10]  * YoBoY 's going to create de french-rule-the-world project
[22:10] <McPeter> :)
[22:10] <niko> first step, i-am-alone
[22:10] <McPeter> HAHAH
[22:13] <YoBoY> niko: you are killing my dream :'(
[22:14] <kinouchou> my poor yoboy :(
[22:14]  * YoBoY need a hug
[22:14] <YoBoY> :p
[22:14]  * kinouchou hugs YoBoY 
[22:15]  * YoBoY hugs kinouchou :)
[22:15] <YoBoY> by the way, tanks for the cloak :)
[22:15] <YoBoY> good night everyone (or good morning, or whatever ^^)
[22:19] <kinouchou> good night
[22:53] <leche> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/leche could this be enough for trying to apply as member? if you say this isnt enough i wont even try it ;)
[22:55] <persia> leche: I'm not on the EMEA board, but id your application came before me, I'd ask for the following additional information:
[22:56] <persia> 1) Your specific role in organising the 2008 Ubucons in Göttingen and links to reports on them with information like what happened, how many people attended, etc.
[22:56] <leche> oh, the link to my launchpad profile is missing
[22:56] <persia> 2) 3-5 testimonials from current members talking about how you do great stuff and some of their good experiences working with you
[22:56] <persia> (oh, and that :) )
[22:57] <persia> 3) Some links to IRC logs that showed you helping people with particularly complex or interesting problems (show off how well you help folks)
[22:57] <leche> persia: ok, so others should edit my page and give their opinion?
[22:58] <persia> 4) A bit more resolution regarding how long you've been an Op where, etc.
[22:58] <persia> leche: For the testimonials, yes, try to get others to edit the page.
[22:58] <persia> (because this shows in the wiki history)
[22:58] <persia> For the rest of it, edit it yourself.
[22:58] <leche> ok, ill gather this information, thank you for your comments
[22:59] <persia> Oh, and I'd recommend changing "My contribution to Ubuntu is ..." to "My primary contribution to Ubuntu is ..."
[22:59] <persia> Good luck!
[22:59] <leche> thanks :)
[23:08] <m4v> leche: you know spanish?
[23:09] <leche> m4v: just a little bit, did 2 courses at university
[23:09] <m4v> ah, I was wondering due to your nick
[23:10] <leche> i like spanish alot
[23:10] <leche> its sound ist soo.. fantastico :D
[23:10] <leche> is*
[23:11] <m4v> hehe :P
[23:28] <leche> m4v: its hard to find difficult problems in ubuntu channels ;)
[23:31] <m4v> yeah, irc channels aren't suitable for resolve difficult problems imo
[23:32] <m4v> so if there's a difficult problem, there are more chances that It didn't get resolved.
[23:38] <IdleOne> m4v: I sort of agree with that, in a large busy channel like #ubuntu it can be very hard for a newbie to keep up and get the help they need but in small channels irc is a great place to get help with complicated issues.
[23:38] <IdleOne> not to mention if the user is having a hard time following the help they can always ask to move to /msg or ##helpmehelpyou
[23:38] <IdleOne> :)
[23:40] <IdleOne> provided the helper is willing to go private and I know that it is not recommended to go into private chat.
[23:44] <m4v> yes
[23:46] <m4v> the problem of #ubuntu is one hard to tackle
[23:48] <leche> in ubuntu channels most questions are trivial. sure, there are difficult questions but most of the time people ask "hows the parameter of one program"
[23:48] <leche> thats my impression
[23:48] <IdleOne> I don't think it is a problem that can be solved. Honestly I don't see it as a problem.
[23:49] <IdleOne> leche: Ubuntu's popularity brings in a lot of new users to the channel and to Linux in general so yes the questions are often trivial to more experienced users
[23:49] <IdleOne> but remember we all started as newbs :)
[23:50] <IdleOne> the newb you help today will one day be experienced and hopefully give back
[23:50] <leche> its completly ok for me, didnt say its bad that you can answer most questions without think too much :)
[23:50] <IdleOne> hehe
[23:50] <IdleOne> I hear you