godbyk | humphreybc: I don't think I've edited any Polish translations lately. The only time I touch the translations is when I'm fixing some LaTeX code that's screwed up. :) | 02:21 |
---|---|---|
humphreybc | godbyk, hmm? | 02:55 |
godbyk | humphreybc: re: the email you forwarded to the list. | 02:56 |
humphreybc | oh right | 02:56 |
humphreybc | now i've got ya | 02:56 |
humphreybc | only just found it in my spam toay | 02:56 |
humphreybc | today* | 02:56 |
IlyaHaykinson | godbyk: what's the easiest way to create some vertical space between paragraphs? | 05:40 |
IlyaHaykinson | is that something you should do, globally, or the writers need to do? | 05:40 |
IlyaHaykinson | i would prefer to put some space between all the paragraphs; they run too closely together. | 05:41 |
humphreybc | IlyaHaykinson_: ping | 06:48 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: hi | 06:52 |
humphreybc | i just committed but then got a diverged branch thing because i forgot to pull first | 06:53 |
humphreybc | could you make a backup of what you just edited | 06:53 |
humphreybc | in case i overwrite it | 06:53 |
humphreybc | i don't think i will | 06:53 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | hm, i don't think that's possible | 06:53 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | if you do bzr merge, it should merge it cleanly | 06:53 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | so commit -- if it looks like it undid what i edited, i'll back up my stuff and re-commit or something | 06:53 |
humphreybc | cool | 06:54 |
* IlyaHaykinson_ is working on a major edit of the software packaging chapter | 07:48 | |
humphreybc | IlyaHaykinson_: care to share some details on that edit? | 07:58 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | just trying to bring some better organization to the writing. it kind of jumps around from simple to complex to simple | 08:00 |
ubuntujenkins | hello IlyaHaykinson_, | 08:01 |
ubuntujenkins | I will have to spend a few days on using Gwibber for my self and currently it doesn't load for me. I will make a start on the hardware section. What are the other people for that chapter doing? The blueprint doesn't say. | 08:01 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: just pushed my change; more work later. if wolter logs in -- i think he'll need to do some rework there to bring this chapter up to shape, i think | 08:02 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | or i'll continue editing some more. | 08:02 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | ubuntujenkins: let me check | 08:02 |
ubuntujenkins | thanks | 08:02 |
ubuntujenkins | Il be back in 15 mins | 08:05 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | ubuntujenkins: I think the highest priorities for hardware are printing and sound | 08:07 |
humphreybc | IlyaHaykinson_: I think wolter might have lost some interest in the project, but we'll see. | 08:08 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | see my proposed outline at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Blueprints/Hardware | 08:08 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | though note that it may not be complete (i.e. maybe we need more sections than what i included here) | 08:08 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: hm, but he was committing website things, wasn't he? | 08:09 |
humphreybc | IlyaHaykinson_: i'm going to finish chapter 1 and 10 by the end of this week, been meaning to do it for the last few days but just haven't had the time | 08:09 |
humphreybc | IlyaHaykinson_: yeah he was, i think he might just be tired of writing? Not sure, I haven't asked him, I thought his section was finished. Maybe he thinks it's finished too | 08:09 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: ok. i think chapter 10 needs some TLC | 08:10 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | some of the apps need to be removed (i.e. pitivi, since it's a default app now) | 08:10 |
humphreybc | yeah i know | 08:10 |
humphreybc | that's what i'm planning on working on | 08:11 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | some apps need better directions (chrome is supposedly in the software center now) | 08:11 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | and, i think more importantly, need to align some of this with use cases | 08:11 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | rather than just being a list of things | 08:11 |
humphreybc | true | 08:12 |
humphreybc | so like examples of why people might want to use these apps? | 08:12 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | hm... | 08:16 |
* IlyaHaykinson_ is looking at the chapter and thinking... | 08:16 | |
IlyaHaykinson_ | i'm kind of thinking out loud here, so bear with me. | 08:17 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | why do people install new software? | 08:18 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | they are either 1) looking to use an alternative to something they already have | 08:18 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | 2) trying to do something they cannot do (very well or at all) with existing software | 08:18 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | 3) doing it for fun or learning | 08:18 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | so maybe we can organize it kind of like that.... first, have a few alternatives | 08:19 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | so have an alternative web browser, an alternative office suite, an alternative IM client, an alternative mail client | 08:19 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | (chrome/chromium, abiword(?), pidgin, thunderbird would be my suggestions here) | 08:20 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | and either list a few other alternatives with no detail, for each category, or point the reader towards some web reource | 08:20 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | then, list a few other things to do with Ubuntu. things like audio editing make sense (though is Jokosher really the most popular one? i thought Audacity is...) | 08:21 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | i would basically look through the web sites whcih aggregate software center applications | 08:21 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | and look for some popular categories of things people do with Ubuntu / Linux | 08:21 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | and then i would also list a few popular linux games, maybe. | 08:22 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | i don't really know anything about those... | 08:23 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | (for the first category -- replacement apps -- VLC also works well in this group) | 08:23 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | or, we can think of it this way: | 08:24 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | 1) How to use different applications to do the same thing 2) How to do other things with Ubuntu, 3) How to become a more advanced user | 08:24 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | where 1) and 2) are basically what i was describing before | 08:25 |
humphreybc | IlyaHaykinson_: I'm still here, reading, just going to grab some stuff from the dairy, back in 5 then i'll have a chat about it with you | 08:25 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | and 3) is for thigns like Gnome Do, and Wine, and Virtualbox | 08:25 |
thorwil | IlyaHaykinson_: good thinking. | 08:25 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: going to Willowbank? | 08:26 |
* IlyaHaykinson_ is proud of his mad google stalking skillzz. | 08:26 | |
thorwil | IlyaHaykinson_: i'd think Jokosher is rather at the fringe, Audacity is widely known, even in Windows-land | 08:26 |
ubuntujenkins | IlyaHaykinson I shall get started on what I can. I did a clean install the other day an empathy wasn't there has it been removed as a default ap? | 08:26 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | ubuntujenkins: hm, wait, really?? | 08:27 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | hm. i last did a full install with alpha 2, i think | 08:27 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | and it was definitely there then | 08:28 |
ubuntujenkins | yes it wasn't there I did a clean install about 3 days ago | 08:28 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | i know they added gwibber | 08:28 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | but not at the expense of empathy, i think. it was a whole big thing when they went from pidgin to empathy in 9.10, so i would doubt they'd get rid of it right away | 08:28 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | especially when empathy is actually under rather active development by the gnome ppl | 08:28 |
ubuntujenkins | there was a bug which ment the ubuntu image was larger than a cd, they could have missed it out as a tempoary thing | 08:29 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | must be a bug: http://www.starryhope.com/linux/ubuntu/2010/4-cool-new-features-in-ubuntu-lucid-lynx-alpha-3/ | 08:29 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | person says that empathy now (i.e. alpha 3) includes facebook chat | 08:29 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | so certainly must be a bug. | 08:29 |
* ubuntujenkins remebers to write about facebook chat | 08:29 | |
IlyaHaykinson_ | OOH! that same article says iphone / ipod touch work with rhythmbox now. | 08:30 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | i will need to find a way to test that out. i remember in 9.04 days i tried to get my sister's iphone to work with ANYTHIGN in Ubuntu, and failed | 08:31 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | had to switch her machine to Windows 7 beta | 08:31 |
ubuntujenkins | thats a move in the right direction | 08:31 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | thorwil: re Audacity / Jokosher, ok, glad that i'm not the only one | 08:32 |
humphreybc | IlyaHaykinson_: scary... yes just come back with a bag of chips, two bags of lollies and a block of chocolate. :) give me a couple of minutes to read what i missed | 08:32 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: just wait until satellites offer live video. then it'll be --really-- freaky. | 08:33 |
humphreybc | jokosher is more user friendly and garageband like than audacity, that's why i chose it | 08:33 |
humphreybc | i don't know anything about linux games either, other than googling "top ten linux games" | 08:34 |
ubuntujenkins | ianto I have been asked to help with chapter 4, I knoticed you authored a part which parts are you writing? | 08:34 |
* IlyaHaykinson_ had to look up what "lollies" were. apparently it's an AU / NZ term | 08:34 | |
humphreybc | i think we do need a section on Wine, at least describing what it is and where they can get more help | 08:34 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: sure, Wine could definitely fit into the "how to become a more advanced user" type of a section | 08:35 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | wine on its own is easy | 08:35 |
humphreybc | pidgin > empathy | 08:35 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | but _troubleshooting_ wine requires a bit of black magic | 08:35 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | that is definitely beyond the grasp of beginners | 08:36 |
humphreybc | lollies = candy :) | 08:36 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | so we'd want to put that, as well as virtual machines, behind some sort of a "here's how you grow to be an advanced user" type of a section | 08:36 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: nod. after looking it up, now i know! | 08:36 |
humphreybc | okay, so, i like your three section idea | 08:36 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | and re pidgin > empathy, i completely agree. but, alas, empathy does D-Bus | 08:37 |
humphreybc | the second 3 section idea | 08:37 |
humphreybc | but we need to rephrase the three sections | 08:37 |
humphreybc | D-Bus? | 08:37 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | yes, please don't treat my section names as gospel. they were just off the top of my head | 08:37 |
humphreybc | so "Alternatives to default apps" | 08:37 |
ubuntujenkins | I think mention wine in about five to ten line, ie this is wine you can use it to......... to find out more google wine.... | 08:37 |
humphreybc | haha, yeah i know :) | 08:37 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | D-Bus is the (new) way for parts of the user interface to share data | 08:37 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | so for example, Evolution tells the notifier application that there's new email using D-Bus | 08:38 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | anyone else can listen to the same message, in theory, and react in their own way. | 08:38 |
humphreybc | "Extra specialized applications" for section 2 | 08:38 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | Empathy speaks to D-Bus when there are new IMs | 08:38 |
humphreybc | and maybe "Advanced applications" or something | 08:38 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | and new multimedia messages etc | 08:38 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | so it integrates really well with the gnome desktop | 08:38 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | not just now, but moving forward | 08:38 |
humphreybc | but to be honest, those three titles are fairly blurred | 08:38 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | whereas the Pidgin folks didn't want to go in that direction (for some reason.... nto sure on the details) | 08:39 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | so, Empathy won out. let's hope it gets developed rapidly. | 08:39 |
* humphreybc gummy sharks nom nom | 08:39 | |
humphreybc | Ahh, TommyBrunn, have a look at /website/wolter-remake | 08:40 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | humphreybc: what about "Finding alternatives to default applications", an "Extending Ubuntu"? | 08:40 |
humphreybc | wolter has used asciidoc to create HTML files for the site... not sure why, but he seemed to think it was the cool thing to do | 08:40 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | with Extending... being the 2 and 3 together | 08:40 |
humphreybc | yeah combining 2 and 3 is good | 08:40 |
humphreybc | do we need the "Finding"? | 08:41 |
humphreybc | just "Alternatives to default applications" could work? | 08:41 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | well, i like having titles that contain a verb in gerund form. | 08:41 |
humphreybc | but hang on | 08:41 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | otherwise it has no verb at all. | 08:41 |
humphreybc | we've already given them the means to find alternative apps by explaining the software store | 08:41 |
humphreybc | so what we're *really* doing is recommending some *good* apps | 08:41 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | true. | 08:41 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | good point | 08:41 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | ok, your title (no "Finding") is fine. | 08:42 |
humphreybc | hmm | 08:42 |
humphreybc | but even then, we need to explain that these are recommendations based on... what? | 08:42 |
humphreybc | sort of like "Chef's choice" in a restaurant... | 08:42 |
humphreybc | we've just taken a few apps that *we* have decided | 08:42 |
* humphreybc realizes that if he is ever going to get round to watching the movie that he's had for a few days, he'd have to do it now | 08:43 | |
IlyaHaykinson_ | well, if you remember my talk/slides, and the style guide, it's ok for us to be slightly opinionated. | 08:43 |
humphreybc | yep | 08:43 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | i would err on the side of most commonly used alternatives | 08:43 |
humphreybc | yeah | 08:44 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | and/or the most mature / complete alternatives | 08:44 |
humphreybc | that's a better way of putting it | 08:44 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | those should generally overlap | 08:44 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | and also we don't need to be exclusive | 08:44 |
humphreybc | okay, so, list of alternatives | 08:44 |
humphreybc | firstly, what are the main default apps people want alternatives for? | 08:44 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | we can do a paragraph on Chrome, but then list (one word each) the next three popular web browsers (i dunno... epiphany, konqueror, elinks???) | 08:44 |
humphreybc | me personally, firefox, pidgin, GIMP, F-Spot | 08:44 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | GIMP is standard, is it not? | 08:45 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | oh. | 08:45 |
humphreybc | oh wait | 08:45 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | you mean alternatives | 08:45 |
humphreybc | it's not anymore | 08:45 |
humphreybc | yeah | 08:45 |
humphreybc | so to get a list of alternatives, we have to start off with a list of stuff they're replacing | 08:45 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | GIMP isn't? hmm. it was in alpha 1 at least, possibly alpha 2 | 08:45 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | ah, you are right. | 08:45 |
humphreybc | so on my fresh install i remove F-Spot, empathy and install chrome, digiKam and pidgin | 08:45 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | ok, gimp isn't really an alternative. | 08:46 |
ubuntujenkins | gimp isn't in lucid | 08:46 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | it's more an add on (i.e. for "extending") | 08:46 |
humphreybc | yeah, gimp would come under the second bit | 08:46 |
humphreybc | the extension bit | 08:46 |
* humphreybc ahh, the sweet smell of progress | 08:46 | |
IlyaHaykinson_ | ok, so firefox -> chrome (+konqueror, epiphany) | 08:46 |
humphreybc | well, opera? | 08:46 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | opera isn't open source. i'd leave this at open source apps for now | 08:46 |
humphreybc | midori? | 08:47 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | flock? | 08:47 |
humphreybc | teminal? | 08:47 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | we can check what the most popular linux browsers are. | 08:47 |
humphreybc | terminal ftw | 08:47 |
humphreybc | http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/k4qQtQHrDz | 08:47 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | hang on, i'll check on my work's google analytics | 08:47 |
humphreybc | let's move this to a pad :) | 08:47 |
* humphreybc has finished one bag of lollies | 08:51 | |
thorwil | vish: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/hgBlhqyoMH | 09:25 |
IlyaHaykinson_ | alright, gnite folks. | 09:38 |
ubuntujenkins | night | 09:39 |
vish | thorwil: those are the list of icons required , right? | 13:31 |
thorwil | vish: i'm not sure if Ben had only that level in mind, but one level deeper would be too many | 13:32 |
vish | yeah.. | 13:32 |
vish | i'll collect the icons e already have and add it to the branch | 13:33 |
vish | s/e/the | 13:33 |
thorwil | vish: so i added lists for what's all in each chapter as # comments | 13:33 |
vish | argh! e=we | 13:33 |
thorwil | vish: and finally the few ideas i have | 13:33 |
thorwil | vish: Default Applications, Troubleshooting and Learning_more make me wonder if we should really do it at all | 13:34 |
* vish nods | 13:35 | |
vish | hmm , whats wrong with bzr :/ | 13:35 |
godbyk | thorwil, vish: for the installation chapter: do most people know what a hard drive looks like? might be better of going with a CD (as in the install CD) instead. | 14:04 |
vish | that would work too | 14:05 |
thorwil | perhaps | 14:05 |
vish | godbyk: whats wrong with bzr? it doesnt allow me to pull | 14:05 |
godbyk | vish: lemme try. | 14:05 |
vish | keeps saying some crap about my unprotected key file :/ | 14:05 |
thorwil | godbyk: the "harddrive" would be just a box in that icon style, anyway | 14:06 |
vish | why does it care :/ | 14:06 |
godbyk | vish: it's working for me. | 14:06 |
godbyk | vish: ah, make sure the permissions of your .ssh/id_rsa file are 644. | 14:06 |
godbyk | er, sorry, 600. | 14:06 |
vish | hmm , is this something new? | 14:06 |
godbyk | vish: I think ssh complains if the permissions are other. | 14:07 |
godbyk | Not sure if that's what the actual problem is or not. | 14:07 |
godbyk | Just taking a shot in the dark. | 14:07 |
vish | worked so long with the same perms | 14:07 |
thorwil | vish: you are not protecting your key file? do you not think about how it must feel, neglected and without cover? | 14:07 |
vish | bleh ;p | 14:07 |
godbyk | lol | 14:07 |
* thorwil -> coffee | 14:09 | |
godbyk | vish: The ~/.ssh dir should be 700, also. | 14:09 |
vish | funny thing is it worked so long , not sure if the file permissions changed or bzr changed | 14:10 |
godbyk | did that fix it? | 14:10 |
vish | i havent tried yet , will be doing it in a sec | 14:10 |
godbyk | k | 14:11 |
godbyk | thorwil: Have you done anything more with the cover page or are we still waiting on some big announcement from Ubuntu? | 14:18 |
godbyk | (just curious, not pressuring!) :-) | 14:18 |
vish | godbyk: is there a way to read the file permissions as numbers rather than using ls -l ? | 14:27 |
godbyk | vish: I don't know of one, but it wouldn't surprise me if it existed. | 14:28 |
godbyk | the .ssh dir should be rwx------ | 14:28 |
godbyk | the .ssh/id_rsa file should be rw------- | 14:29 |
vish | yeah , right now it is 644 , need to change that | 14:29 |
godbyk | vish: chmod 700 ~/.ssh; chmod 600 ~/.ssh/id_rsa | 14:29 |
vish | yup just did that | 14:30 |
vish | hmm , now it works | 14:30 |
vish | i mean bzr works now.. but i hadnt changed the file permissions , wonder what did that | 14:31 |
vish | the directory was having the right permissions already , but not sure how the key file permissions got changed.. | 14:32 |
godbyk | vish: good question! | 14:32 |
vish | there is a bug in gnome-keyring , maybe it is related | 14:32 |
vish | lucid got a gnome-keyring update , that is causing a lot of havoc.. but thats a long shot | 14:33 |
vish | nope , not it , the update predates my last bzr interaction | 14:36 |
godbyk | I just updated http://ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ for anyone who cares. | 14:43 |
thorwil | godbyk: no, yes | 15:27 |
godbyk | thorwil: heh. understood. | 15:29 |
BlessJah | hi, i'm currently translating ubuntu manual | 15:52 |
BlessJah | \providecommand{\polang}{en} what should be translated here? | 15:52 |
BlessJah | should I translate last part? {en} to {pl}? | 15:55 |
godbyk | BlessJah: Nope, you should leave that line as-is. | 16:33 |
BlessJah | what does this line means? | 16:35 |
godbyk | BlessJah: The \providecommand line? It means: "if the \polang command hasn't already been define, define is to mean 'en'." | 17:07 |
godbyk | When you run 'make ubuntu-manual-pl.pdf', it sets '\def\polang{pl}'. | 17:07 |
godbyk | then \polang is passed in as \documentclass[lang=\polang]{ubuntu-manual} | 17:08 |
BlessJah | ok, so it shouldn't be changed into {pl} | 17:08 |
godbyk | so it's telling the manual what language is being compiled. | 17:08 |
godbyk | BlessJah: The \providecommand line is just setting 'en' as the default language if a language hasn't already been set. | 17:08 |
godbyk | BlessJah: But the language is being set in the Makefile. | 17:08 |
BlessJah | ok | 17:09 |
BlessJah | thx | 17:09 |
godbyk | So you can leave the \providecommand line alone. It doesn't need to be changed. | 17:09 |
godbyk | BlessJah: no problem. :) | 17:09 |
humphreybc | TommyBrunn: ping | 21:46 |
komsas | godbyk: if I wrote in translation dash, it is better to change it to /dash? | 21:59 |
komsas | he, my ping killed him. :) | 21:59 |
komsas | dutchie: do you know something about this? | 22:02 |
dutchie | if you are translating \dash{text}, put \dash{translated text} | 22:03 |
komsas | no, there no dash in english line, but in our translation is | 22:03 |
komsas | what to do in this position? | 22:03 |
dutchie | oh, so your language has a dash where there is not one in the English? | 22:04 |
komsas | yes | 22:04 |
* dutchie is unsure | 22:04 | |
komsas | it is problem? | 22:04 |
* dutchie is not really in ubuntu-manual mode atm | 22:04 | |
dutchie | just put \dash for now, godbyk will complain if it's wrong | 22:04 |
komsas | oh dutchie, sorry I did read your question right | 22:05 |
komsas | we have same dash | 22:05 |
humphreybc | you don't want to translate the command, but the text inside the command (the braces) | 22:05 |
dutchie | could you show us the text you are translating? | 22:05 |
dutchie | it should give a file reference iirc | 22:06 |
komsas | but I'm asking if there no dash in english string and I use dash like "-" in lithuanian translation, it is better to use latex command or I can use "-" | 22:06 |
dutchie | just use your initiative for now | 22:07 |
dutchie | ask godbyk when he's back | 22:07 |
komsas | ok dutchie , thanks u | 22:07 |
humphreybc | ubuntujenkins: ping | 22:12 |
* humphreybc is meeting up with Launchpad's release manager for coffee this afternoon | 22:26 | |
* dutchie thinks that writing a python program to do his physics homework was overkill | 22:28 | |
* humphreybc thinks that if dutchie likes python so much mebbe he should help with quickshot | 22:28 | |
humphreybc | :P | 22:28 |
dutchie | :P | 22:29 |
dutchie | I have been providing ubuntujenkins with hints | 22:29 |
humphreybc | lol | 22:29 |
dutchie | and I have a copy of the branch | 22:29 |
humphreybc | okay cool | 22:29 |
humphreybc | i'm fearing for the screenshots now | 22:29 |
dutchie | I never really got round to working out how quickly works properly | 22:29 |
humphreybc | me neither, all i use is quickly run and quickly glade :D | 22:30 |
* dutchie is busy using E = mc² for now | 22:30 | |
humphreybc | hehe | 22:30 |
humphreybc | dutchie, fire stuff at me for a to do list | 22:33 |
humphreybc | for the project | 22:33 |
humphreybc | like, detailed stuff | 22:33 |
humphreybc | not "complete chapter 10" | 22:33 |
humphreybc | and not just for me | 22:33 |
humphreybc | i'm putting it on the wiki | 22:33 |
humphreybc | in response to comment from Chris Lees, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/omg-ubuntu-manual-project-gets-website.html | 22:33 |
dutchie | oh god | 22:34 |
dutchie | more publicity | 22:34 |
humphreybc | more publicity, yes | 22:34 |
humphreybc | :) | 22:34 |
humphreybc | also there's a quickshot post going up soon too | 22:34 |
dutchie | btw, ubuntu-manual.org is full of fail on IE7 | 22:34 |
dutchie | not sure if we should care | 22:34 |
humphreybc | ubuntujenkins: https://edge.launchpad.net/tarmac | 22:35 |
humphreybc | really? | 22:35 |
humphreybc | screenshot please? | 22:35 |
dutchie | don't have a windows box handy now | 22:36 |
dutchie | hmm, everything works fine up to the point where I convert from J to MeV | 22:36 |
humphreybc | me neither | 22:36 |
humphreybc | lol | 22:36 |
humphreybc | ill ask my flatmate if he's around | 22:36 |
dutchie | ah, I had the charge on an electron as 1.6e-29 | 22:37 |
ubuntujenkins | humphreybc and dutchie I am just finishing a group meeting I will talk in ten mins when I get home if thats ok | 22:37 |
dutchie | silly me | 22:37 |
ubuntujenkins | see you in the? | 22:38 |
ubuntujenkins | *ten | 22:38 |
humphreybc | sure | 22:42 |
komsas | godbyk: If I want to use dash in translation, but there is no dash in english line, it is better to use latex code /dash or I can use "-" ? | 22:48 |
humphreybc | hi Red_HamsterX :) | 22:49 |
Red_HamsterX | Hi. | 22:49 |
Red_HamsterX | So, as shadwick was asking, what do you need help with? | 22:49 |
Red_HamsterX | Aside from grabbing screencaps. | 22:49 |
humphreybc | so, basically the manual project is to create a fully fledged, community based, up to date beginners manual with 200 pages, 50 screenshots or so and 40+ languages | 22:50 |
humphreybc | well practically everything - we've only got one python developer working on it, TommyBrunn | 22:50 |
humphreybc | and ubuntujenkins is working on it too | 22:50 |
humphreybc | i'm trying my best to help with the UI | 22:50 |
humphreybc | but the main problem we have is time | 22:50 |
shadwick | hello | 22:51 |
humphreybc | because the manual needs to be ready for Lucid, we need the screenshots before the 20th April | 22:51 |
humphreybc | getting 2000 consistent screenshots in 40+ languages is a hard undertaking | 22:51 |
humphreybc | so i came up with the idea for quickshot | 22:51 |
humphreybc | which automates a lot of the process | 22:51 |
ubuntujenkins | back again | 22:51 |
shadwick | I think it's a great idea | 22:51 |
humphreybc | we also need the default ubuntu theme for Lucid, so it creates a new user etc | 22:52 |
* ubuntujenkins checks logs | 22:52 | |
humphreybc | shadwick: thanks. we're hoping to make it flexible enough so that other documentation projects can use it too. | 22:52 |
Red_HamsterX | I shouldn't have any trouble dedicating a system for the beta releases. | 22:52 |
Red_HamsterX | And I'm not bad with Python (projects at uguu.ca). | 22:53 |
TommyBrunn | Red_HamsterX: Even if you don't have a spare system, you could probably do it in a virtual machine. | 22:53 |
humphreybc | but at the moment we're in a bit of trouble because a) I came up with the idea too late (my fault) and b) we've only got two people working on it actively, it's proving more complicated than anticipated | 22:53 |
humphreybc | our project has a huge emphasis on simplicity | 22:53 |
Red_HamsterX | But I'm very short on time. | 22:53 |
ubuntujenkins | right well I can say I need serious help :-0 | 22:53 |
Red_HamsterX | That's what I meant TommyBrunn. | 22:53 |
Red_HamsterX | +comma | 22:53 |
humphreybc | we want to make it as easy as possible for contributors to help with UMP, so we have a tonne of stuff in place to make it easy for them to help out. That's what we want to do with Quickshot, make it so anyone can use it | 22:53 |
Red_HamsterX | What do you need the most help with, Python-wise, TommyBrunn, ubuntujenkins? | 22:54 |
humphreybc | we'd like it ready for the Ubuntu Global Jam so we can get hundreds of people screenshotting | 22:54 |
godbyk | komsas: Use \dash. | 22:54 |
* ubuntujenkins has spent 3.5 hours staring at a ~1000 cell spreedsheet | 22:54 | |
* komsas going to change translation.. | 22:54 | |
humphreybc | Red_HamsterX, shadwick, how much do you guys know about bzr and launchpad? | 22:54 |
TommyBrunn | Currently we pretty much need help with everything. The first thing that springs to mind though, is a way to parse the screenshots branch and somehow serialize the information for each screenshot. | 22:55 |
ubuntujenkins | so that I can add the screen res detect to main I really need a timer mecahnism | 22:55 |
Red_HamsterX | humphreybc, I'm a bit weak on bzr, though I'm very familiar with svn. | 22:55 |
ubuntujenkins | I am looking at the bzr lark | 22:55 |
TommyBrunn | See, every screenshot will have some sort of information on what should be in it, what language it should be in, etc. | 22:55 |
humphreybc | i'm meeting up with the release manager for launchpad today for coffee | 22:55 |
Red_HamsterX | I was working with the Ubuntu documentation team in preparation for 5.04, so Launchpad's mostly familiar. | 22:55 |
Red_HamsterX | Though it's changed a fair bit since then. | 22:55 |
TommyBrunn | We need to somehow format that in a consistent manner, so that it can be read by Quickshot. | 22:55 |
ubuntujenkins | there are branches for each language here https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-screenshots?field.lifecycle=ALL | 22:56 |
humphreybc | to discuss the best way to work with the data on launchpad. he has suggested https://launchpad.net/tarmac | 22:56 |
ubuntujenkins | I have written a script to merge them to main. I will look at tarmac tomorrow | 22:56 |
humphreybc | of course we want consistency across all of our translated manuals and within the manuals themselves - which means that stuff like dpi, resolution, theme etc have to be pre-determined and set correctly | 22:56 |
humphreybc | ubuntujenkins: oh nice you've done some of the languages :D | 22:56 |
ubuntujenkins | you have to change the status to any status the merging means they change status to merged but they still work | 22:57 |
ubuntujenkins | if they add any more languages :P | 22:57 |
TommyBrunn | Anyway, I need to be off to bed now. I'm sick as a dog, and so I need all the rest I can get. Hopefully I can be of more help once I get better. If there are any questions that ubuntujenkins or humphreybc can't answer, feel free to email them to me at tommy.brunn@gmail.com | 22:58 |
humphreybc | yep, and also email me at humphreybc@gmail.com or catch me on google talk - it goes to my cellphone and i'll reply pretty much immediately unless i'm asleep | 22:58 |
ubuntujenkins | Red_HamsterX I could really do with some help with one last bit on the screen resolution stuff then it can go into main for testing | 22:58 |
shadwick | well as cool as this project is, I don't think I'll be able to help out | 22:59 |
shadwick | best of luck though | 22:59 |
Red_HamsterX | ubuntujenkins, just point me at the code and leave a "todo" block of comments and I'll see what I can hack out. I'm in UTC-7. | 22:59 |
ubuntujenkins | I will give you an explination and add TODOs in a moment, my branch is untidy as I use it for experiments. | 23:00 |
Red_HamsterX | I'll do my best to mirror your style. | 23:00 |
ubuntujenkins | thats sounds good though. | 23:00 |
ubuntujenkins | it fine I will add all of the screen res change to a seperatef ile for main | 23:01 |
ubuntujenkins | I am just changing permissons for my branch | 23:01 |
Red_HamsterX | (I'll likely be unable to do much today, though. I won't be home 'til late and I need to be up early tomorrow. I'll look over the code and make note of what I already know how to do, though) | 23:01 |
humphreybc | Red_HamsterX: if you want to just hang out in here and we can chat about quickshot stuff. i have to update the wiki at some point too | 23:02 |
humphreybc | sweet | 23:02 |
ubuntujenkins | are you on the quickshot devs team? Red... | 23:02 |
humphreybc | so, our target completion date is the 18th March for a working version, 31st March for a stable version | 23:02 |
humphreybc | I know that's less than 3 weeks away | 23:02 |
humphreybc | we have a plan B if quickshot isn't ready | 23:02 |
humphreybc | Red_HamsterX: what's your lp username and i'll add you to the quickshot devs | 23:02 |
humphreybc | ubuntujenkins: should we make it an open team | 23:03 |
humphreybc | ? | 23:03 |
Red_HamsterX | I figured I'd just give you patches like with most other projects. | 23:03 |
ubuntujenkins | erm can we add more people who can approve members? | 23:03 |
humphreybc | yeah i'll make you an admin | 23:03 |
humphreybc | and Tommy | 23:03 |
ubuntujenkins | Red_Hamster my e-mail is ubuntujenkins@googlemail.com | 23:03 |
ubuntujenkins | cheers ben | 23:04 |
Red_HamsterX | https://edge.launchpad.net/~red-hamsterx | 23:04 |
ubuntujenkins | Red_Hamster bzr branch lp:~quickshotdevs/quickshot/luke-quickshot is my branch I will make some changes before I go to bed | 23:04 |
Red_HamsterX | You should be able to get what you need from that. | 23:04 |
Red_HamsterX | I'm on Google Talk at red.hamsterx@gmail.com. | 23:04 |
humphreybc | what's your real name for my contacts list? | 23:05 |
Red_HamsterX | Neil Tallim; it's what I broadcast anyway. | 23:05 |
humphreybc | sweet | 23:05 |
* humphreybc needs to have lunch soon | 23:06 | |
humphreybc | Red_HamsterX: I'm +13 btw | 23:06 |
humphreybc | NZ | 23:07 |
dutchie | \o/ | 23:07 |
Red_HamsterX | That explains why you said 'lunch' and not 'sleep'. | 23:07 |
ubuntujenkins | when the user clicks the button to change their resolution a new window pops up. In this window there is a button that has to be to clicked with in seconds or they are logged out. The 15 seconds deley doesn't exist I know the loog out command | 23:07 |
dutchie | http://media.joshh.co.uk/graph.png produced using 75 lines of Python | 23:07 |
ubuntujenkins | @ Red_HamsterX | 23:07 |
manualbot | ubuntujenkins: Error: "Red_HamsterX" is not a valid command. | 23:07 |
Red_HamsterX | Lawl, bot. | 23:07 |
* ubuntujenkins is tired | 23:08 | |
dutchie | don't be mean to manualbot | 23:08 |
ubuntujenkins | I will point out I have all most no python skills at all. with help from dutchie #python and #ubuntu-app-devel is how I have got stuff this far | 23:09 |
humphreybc | i'm taking a python paper but only just started, so i'm fairly useless too | 23:09 |
ubuntujenkins | I had done a little past hello world about 2 years ago and now I am trying to help on a program | 23:10 |
dutchie | humphreybc: there are other Ubuntu people in NZ? | 23:10 |
dutchie | wow | 23:10 |
Red_HamsterX | I contribute patches against the issue-tracker when I can, so I can probably help compensate. | 23:10 |
humphreybc | dutchie, yes there are! even one or two canonical employees | 23:10 |
humphreybc | mpt is from NZ :) | 23:10 |
dutchie | yeah, but he's in a proper country now | 23:10 |
dutchie | :P | 23:10 |
ubuntujenkins | I am adding coments to my branch now | 23:10 |
humphreybc | dutchie: .. | 23:11 |
humphreybc | Red_HamsterX: added you as a member of Quickshot devs | 23:11 |
Red_HamsterX | Who's mpt? | 23:11 |
humphreybc | also, guys, just a heads up - there's a post going up on omgubuntu.co.uk very soon about quickshot and asking for help with the python - so if we get an influx of people wanting to help, that's where they're from :) | 23:12 |
Red_HamsterX | Wow. Dev access after fifteen minutes. That's a first. | 23:12 |
Red_HamsterX | What if I'm, like, totally malicious? | 23:12 |
humphreybc | we trust you :) | 23:12 |
humphreybc | (btw our project is a bit weird because i'm in charge) | 23:12 |
humphreybc | :) | 23:12 |
Red_HamsterX | Weird's good. | 23:12 |
humphreybc | mpt is one of the lead Ubuntu UI designers for Canonical | 23:12 |
dutchie | he's head of the User Interaction team iirc | 23:13 |
Red_HamsterX | Ah. Then I have not spoken with him. | 23:13 |
humphreybc | yeah, good guy | 23:13 |
dutchie | I have attended a talk by him | 23:13 |
humphreybc | dutchie: UDS-M is in brussels, feel like making a trip there? | 23:13 |
humphreybc | also, Red_HamsterX, ubuntujenkins, look into: https://edge.launchpad.net/tarmac | 23:14 |
dutchie | not espaecially if I have to pay | 23:14 |
ubuntujenkins | on my to do list already | 23:14 |
dutchie | I was going to have a vague look at dates and things | 23:14 |
humphreybc | http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F << to do list | 23:14 |
humphreybc | (for new contributors, will go on the wiki) | 23:15 |
humphreybc | Luke, can you add some quickshot stuff for our new python peeps? | 23:16 |
humphreybc | godbyk: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F | 23:17 |
ubuntujenkins | I will try to my list is getting longer by the day I am also wrting more for other chapters as well | 23:17 |
ubuntujenkins | bit like your ben :-) | 23:17 |
dutchie | email me a list of things you need doing, and I may investigate | 23:19 |
humphreybc | heh | 23:19 |
dutchie | but it is now bedtime | 23:19 |
humphreybc | i'm spending so much time talking to people nowadays | 23:19 |
Red_HamsterX | You are. | 23:20 |
Red_HamsterX | Ooh. A real-time notepad. Neat. | 23:21 |
dutchie | it has also been called "Multiplayer notepad" | 23:22 |
* Red_HamsterX waits for Launchpad to finish its GPG propagation stuff. | 23:24 | |
godbyk | humphreybc: Is what's-his-name going to be doing our site or what's the story there. Looks like Wolter's been busy hacking on it. No sense having two people running in different directions. | 23:28 |
godbyk | (I haven't looked at Wolter's site yet.) | 23:28 |
humphreybc | haven't heard from brett alton yet | 23:29 |
humphreybc | so for now it's wolter | 23:29 |
godbyk | 'kay. | 23:29 |
godbyk | should I switch the test site to wolter's dir sometime? | 23:29 |
ubuntujenkins | Red_HamsterX I have updated my branch please don't merge it with main as there is some trickry going on in it that will be messed up. There is a TODO in line 223 | 23:30 |
ubuntujenkins | thanks :-) | 23:30 |
humphreybc | godbyk, maybe in a couple of days | 23:30 |
humphreybc | yeah so i don't know if you guys caught it | 23:31 |
humphreybc | but on the 26th March there will be a post on omgubuntu asking readers to download the latest revision (it'll just be attached to the post) and crawl over it for spelling mistakes, grammar etc | 23:31 |
humphreybc | they'll be directed to bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | 23:32 |
humphreybc | so about that time we'll have hundreds of bugs coming in :) | 23:32 |
ubuntujenkins | yey :P | 23:32 |
humphreybc | it gives us 5 (five!) days to fix all the bugs before writing freeze on the 31st | 23:32 |
ubuntujenkins | woo! | 23:32 |
godbyk | won't that be fun! | 23:33 |
ubuntujenkins | I know | 23:33 |
humphreybc | hehe | 23:33 |
humphreybc | oh and python devs, every time i talk to jono he asks me to contribute snippets: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PythonSnippets | 23:33 |
humphreybc | i told him once we have some solid code to submit, we will | 23:33 |
humphreybc | just something else to keep in mind | 23:33 |
ubuntujenkins | Think looking at the list we need more people to help | 23:35 |
godbyk | ubuntujenkins: more people to help with what? | 23:35 |
ubuntujenkins | the massive list on http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F | 23:36 |
humphreybc | we always need more people :D | 23:36 |
humphreybc | okay we need authors for chapter 6 | 23:39 |
ubuntujenkins | shotgun not | 23:40 |
humphreybc | lol | 23:40 |
ubuntujenkins | I have just facebooked a mate to try and get him to help | 23:40 |
humphreybc | groovy | 23:40 |
* ubuntujenkins looks at tarmac | 23:41 | |
godbyk | do we think that the quickshot stuff will be ready in time? how much will it script things and how much will rely on the user? | 23:41 |
humphreybc | godbyk: probably not going to be ready in time unless we get another 2 python coders at least | 23:42 |
godbyk | it'd take more developer time (but would help with consistency and take less user time) if the screenshots were taken programmatically. | 23:42 |
humphreybc | yup | 23:43 |
humphreybc | that's the aim | 23:43 |
godbyk | e.g., it knows how to run program X, runs it, gets it to the proper state and position on the screen and takes the screenshot all on its own. | 23:43 |
ubuntujenkins | I don't know if tramac turns out allright and the taking screenshots is done then we might get it done | 23:43 |
humphreybc | okay so, what chapters are actually _completed_ | 23:43 |
humphreybc | ? | 23:43 |
godbyk | normally, I'd jump on board and try to help out more with quickshot but I have my hands full at the moment. :) | 23:44 |
godbyk | don't we have editors assigned to each chapter? maybe they should run through and sign off on their chapters. | 23:44 |
humphreybc | godbyk: that's fine, the latex is more important | 23:44 |
ubuntujenkins | kklimonda you wanted to help with quickshot, please remind what skills have you got? | 23:44 |
humphreybc | yep we need to find jamin | 23:44 |
godbyk | make a list of what sections are unfinished and give a status report. | 23:44 |
kklimonda | ubuntujenkins: I can handle both Python and C | 23:45 |
ubuntujenkins | sory it too so long to get back to you but I now know where we are at again | 23:45 |
ubuntujenkins | TommyBrunn are you still up? | 23:45 |
humphreybc | nah he's gone to sleep | 23:46 |
cmmtessier | Just joined on to help - don't mind to do some editing - where should I begin chapter1? | 23:46 |
ubuntujenkins | kklimonda have a look at bzr branch lp:~quickshotdevs/quickshot/luke-quickshot please and line 233 it in a mess I will tidy it up. between you and Red_HamsterX could get that functionality working that would be good | 23:47 |
ubuntujenkins | guys do quickly run to run it and do quickly run -r to remove the user | 23:47 |
humphreybc | okay, so i'm meeting with Tim in about 2 hours, give me stuff to ask him | 23:47 |
ubuntujenkins | who is he again? | 23:48 |
humphreybc | Launchpad release manager | 23:48 |
humphreybc | works for canonical | 23:48 |
humphreybc | works on bzr and launchpad | 23:48 |
humphreybc | i'm actually physically meeting up with him for coffee | 23:48 |
semioticrobotic | ta da | 23:49 |
humphreybc | cmmtessier: basically anything you can see that needs work | 23:49 |
humphreybc | hi semioticrobotic! | 23:49 |
humphreybc | cmmtessier: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F | 23:49 |
epkugelmass | I propose putting that in the topic | 23:49 |
humphreybc | hehe | 23:50 |
humphreybc | just about to do that :) | 23:50 |
ubuntujenkins | basically we could do with the authentication thing sorted. I am tinkering with tarmac I am wondering how http://doctormo.ubuntu-ma.us/2010/03/01/launchpad-moving-to-closed-source-auth/ that effects us | 23:50 |
epkugelmass | ok =] | 23:50 |
=== humphreybc changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | TODO LIST: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F | ||
humphreybc | anyone know how to make text red on a wiki? | 23:52 |
ubuntujenkins | humphreybc what i really need to know is how to add an ssh key to launchpad through commands at a VERY quick glance tarmac deals with https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib | 23:52 |
ubuntujenkins | no I am afraid not | 23:53 |
humphreybc | ubuntujenkins: okay i'll ask him about how we can do stuff like that | 23:53 |
ubuntujenkins | thnaks I am off to bed night | 23:53 |
humphreybc | night | 23:54 |
* humphreybc is off to make some lunch | 23:54 | |
ubuntujenkins | humphreybc please ask does authorizing an app through https://help.launchpad.net/API/launchpadlib (OAuth) allow bzr branch pushes | 23:55 |
humphreybc | kk | 23:55 |
* ubuntujenkins is really of to bed now | 23:55 | |
humphreybc | i suggest everyone bookmarks the etherpad | 23:55 |
ubuntujenkins | thanks night all | 23:55 |
godbyk | humphreybc: When you do the omg editors thing, you should establish a standard format for the bug reporting so that it's easy to see what's been reported already (so we don't have to triage a bunch of duplicates). | 23:56 |
humphreybc | yep | 23:56 |
humphreybc | will d | 23:57 |
humphreybc | do* | 23:57 |
humphreybc | stuff like page number, revision number, all that sort of stuff. | 23:57 |
godbyk | The bug's subject line should be like 'ch X, p Y, "words that are wrong" -> "words that are right" | 23:57 |
godbyk | or something like that. | 23:57 |
godbyk | right. | 23:57 |
godbyk | hopefully they'll all be on the same PDF | 23:57 |
godbyk | that way the page numbers are the same throughout. | 23:57 |
semioticrobotic | which version of the manual are we giving to omg? Beta? RC? | 23:59 |
godbyk | humphreybc: I like the google analytics report for the new site.. goes from 0 to 122 visitors in a single day. | 23:59 |
Red_HamsterX | There. Launchpad stuff taken care of and code of conduct signed. Yay. | 23:59 |
humphreybc | hehe | 23:59 |
godbyk | semioticrobotic: Probably the latest of whatever we've got at the time. | 23:59 |
humphreybc | well it's on Planet Ubuntu and omgubuntu | 23:59 |
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