[02:21] humphreybc: I don't think I've edited any Polish translations lately. The only time I touch the translations is when I'm fixing some LaTeX code that's screwed up. :) [02:55] godbyk, hmm? [02:56] humphreybc: re: the email you forwarded to the list. [02:56] oh right [02:56] now i've got ya [02:56] only just found it in my spam toay [02:56] today* [05:40] godbyk: what's the easiest way to create some vertical space between paragraphs? [05:40] is that something you should do, globally, or the writers need to do? [05:41] i would prefer to put some space between all the paragraphs; they run too closely together. [06:48] IlyaHaykinson_: ping [06:52] humphreybc: hi [06:53] i just committed but then got a diverged branch thing because i forgot to pull first [06:53] could you make a backup of what you just edited [06:53] in case i overwrite it [06:53] i don't think i will [06:53] hm, i don't think that's possible [06:53] if you do bzr merge, it should merge it cleanly [06:53] so commit -- if it looks like it undid what i edited, i'll back up my stuff and re-commit or something [06:54] cool [07:48] * IlyaHaykinson_ is working on a major edit of the software packaging chapter [07:58] IlyaHaykinson_: care to share some details on that edit? [08:00] just trying to bring some better organization to the writing. it kind of jumps around from simple to complex to simple [08:01] hello IlyaHaykinson_, [08:01] I will have to spend a few days on using Gwibber for my self and currently it doesn't load for me. I will make a start on the hardware section. What are the other people for that chapter doing? The blueprint doesn't say. [08:02] humphreybc: just pushed my change; more work later. if wolter logs in -- i think he'll need to do some rework there to bring this chapter up to shape, i think [08:02] or i'll continue editing some more. [08:02] ubuntujenkins: let me check [08:02] thanks [08:05] Il be back in 15 mins [08:07] ubuntujenkins: I think the highest priorities for hardware are printing and sound [08:08] IlyaHaykinson_: I think wolter might have lost some interest in the project, but we'll see. [08:08] see my proposed outline at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/Blueprints/Hardware [08:08] though note that it may not be complete (i.e. maybe we need more sections than what i included here) [08:09] humphreybc: hm, but he was committing website things, wasn't he? [08:09] IlyaHaykinson_: i'm going to finish chapter 1 and 10 by the end of this week, been meaning to do it for the last few days but just haven't had the time [08:09] IlyaHaykinson_: yeah he was, i think he might just be tired of writing? Not sure, I haven't asked him, I thought his section was finished. Maybe he thinks it's finished too [08:10] humphreybc: ok. i think chapter 10 needs some TLC [08:10] some of the apps need to be removed (i.e. pitivi, since it's a default app now) [08:10] yeah i know [08:11] that's what i'm planning on working on [08:11] some apps need better directions (chrome is supposedly in the software center now) [08:11] and, i think more importantly, need to align some of this with use cases [08:11] rather than just being a list of things [08:12] true [08:12] so like examples of why people might want to use these apps? [08:16] hm... [08:16] * IlyaHaykinson_ is looking at the chapter and thinking... [08:17] i'm kind of thinking out loud here, so bear with me. [08:18] why do people install new software? [08:18] they are either 1) looking to use an alternative to something they already have [08:18] 2) trying to do something they cannot do (very well or at all) with existing software [08:18] 3) doing it for fun or learning [08:19] so maybe we can organize it kind of like that.... first, have a few alternatives [08:19] so have an alternative web browser, an alternative office suite, an alternative IM client, an alternative mail client [08:20] (chrome/chromium, abiword(?), pidgin, thunderbird would be my suggestions here) [08:20] and either list a few other alternatives with no detail, for each category, or point the reader towards some web reource [08:21] then, list a few other things to do with Ubuntu. things like audio editing make sense (though is Jokosher really the most popular one? i thought Audacity is...) [08:21] i would basically look through the web sites whcih aggregate software center applications [08:21] and look for some popular categories of things people do with Ubuntu / Linux [08:22] and then i would also list a few popular linux games, maybe. [08:23] i don't really know anything about those... [08:23] (for the first category -- replacement apps -- VLC also works well in this group) [08:24] or, we can think of it this way: [08:24] 1) How to use different applications to do the same thing 2) How to do other things with Ubuntu, 3) How to become a more advanced user [08:25] where 1) and 2) are basically what i was describing before [08:25] IlyaHaykinson_: I'm still here, reading, just going to grab some stuff from the dairy, back in 5 then i'll have a chat about it with you [08:25] and 3) is for thigns like Gnome Do, and Wine, and Virtualbox [08:25] IlyaHaykinson_: good thinking. [08:26] humphreybc: going to Willowbank? [08:26] * IlyaHaykinson_ is proud of his mad google stalking skillzz. [08:26] IlyaHaykinson_: i'd think Jokosher is rather at the fringe, Audacity is widely known, even in Windows-land [08:26] IlyaHaykinson I shall get started on what I can. I did a clean install the other day an empathy wasn't there has it been removed as a default ap? [08:27] ubuntujenkins: hm, wait, really?? [08:27] hm. i last did a full install with alpha 2, i think [08:28] and it was definitely there then [08:28] yes it wasn't there I did a clean install about 3 days ago [08:28] i know they added gwibber [08:28] but not at the expense of empathy, i think. it was a whole big thing when they went from pidgin to empathy in 9.10, so i would doubt they'd get rid of it right away [08:28] especially when empathy is actually under rather active development by the gnome ppl [08:29] there was a bug which ment the ubuntu image was larger than a cd, they could have missed it out as a tempoary thing [08:29] must be a bug: http://www.starryhope.com/linux/ubuntu/2010/4-cool-new-features-in-ubuntu-lucid-lynx-alpha-3/ [08:29] person says that empathy now (i.e. alpha 3) includes facebook chat [08:29] so certainly must be a bug. [08:29] * ubuntujenkins remebers to write about facebook chat [08:30] OOH! that same article says iphone / ipod touch work with rhythmbox now. [08:31] i will need to find a way to test that out. i remember in 9.04 days i tried to get my sister's iphone to work with ANYTHIGN in Ubuntu, and failed [08:31] had to switch her machine to Windows 7 beta [08:31] thats a move in the right direction [08:32] thorwil: re Audacity / Jokosher, ok, glad that i'm not the only one [08:32] IlyaHaykinson_: scary... yes just come back with a bag of chips, two bags of lollies and a block of chocolate. :) give me a couple of minutes to read what i missed [08:33] humphreybc: just wait until satellites offer live video. then it'll be --really-- freaky. [08:33] jokosher is more user friendly and garageband like than audacity, that's why i chose it [08:34] i don't know anything about linux games either, other than googling "top ten linux games" [08:34] ianto I have been asked to help with chapter 4, I knoticed you authored a part which parts are you writing? [08:34] * IlyaHaykinson_ had to look up what "lollies" were. apparently it's an AU / NZ term [08:34] i think we do need a section on Wine, at least describing what it is and where they can get more help [08:35] humphreybc: sure, Wine could definitely fit into the "how to become a more advanced user" type of a section [08:35] wine on its own is easy [08:35] pidgin > empathy [08:35] but _troubleshooting_ wine requires a bit of black magic [08:36] that is definitely beyond the grasp of beginners [08:36] lollies = candy :) [08:36] so we'd want to put that, as well as virtual machines, behind some sort of a "here's how you grow to be an advanced user" type of a section [08:36] humphreybc: nod. after looking it up, now i know! [08:36] okay, so, i like your three section idea [08:37] and re pidgin > empathy, i completely agree. but, alas, empathy does D-Bus [08:37] the second 3 section idea [08:37] but we need to rephrase the three sections [08:37] D-Bus? [08:37] yes, please don't treat my section names as gospel. they were just off the top of my head [08:37] so "Alternatives to default apps" [08:37] I think mention wine in about five to ten line, ie this is wine you can use it to......... to find out more google wine.... [08:37] haha, yeah i know :) [08:37] D-Bus is the (new) way for parts of the user interface to share data [08:38] so for example, Evolution tells the notifier application that there's new email using D-Bus [08:38] anyone else can listen to the same message, in theory, and react in their own way. [08:38] "Extra specialized applications" for section 2 [08:38] Empathy speaks to D-Bus when there are new IMs [08:38] and maybe "Advanced applications" or something [08:38] and new multimedia messages etc [08:38] so it integrates really well with the gnome desktop [08:38] not just now, but moving forward [08:38] but to be honest, those three titles are fairly blurred [08:39] whereas the Pidgin folks didn't want to go in that direction (for some reason.... nto sure on the details) [08:39] so, Empathy won out. let's hope it gets developed rapidly. [08:39] * humphreybc gummy sharks nom nom [08:40] Ahh, TommyBrunn, have a look at /website/wolter-remake [08:40] humphreybc: what about "Finding alternatives to default applications", an "Extending Ubuntu"? [08:40] wolter has used asciidoc to create HTML files for the site... not sure why, but he seemed to think it was the cool thing to do [08:40] with Extending... being the 2 and 3 together [08:40] yeah combining 2 and 3 is good [08:41] do we need the "Finding"? [08:41] just "Alternatives to default applications" could work? [08:41] well, i like having titles that contain a verb in gerund form. [08:41] but hang on [08:41] otherwise it has no verb at all. [08:41] we've already given them the means to find alternative apps by explaining the software store [08:41] so what we're *really* doing is recommending some *good* apps [08:41] true. [08:41] good point [08:42] ok, your title (no "Finding") is fine. [08:42] hmm [08:42] but even then, we need to explain that these are recommendations based on... what? [08:42] sort of like "Chef's choice" in a restaurant... [08:42] we've just taken a few apps that *we* have decided [08:43] * humphreybc realizes that if he is ever going to get round to watching the movie that he's had for a few days, he'd have to do it now [08:43] well, if you remember my talk/slides, and the style guide, it's ok for us to be slightly opinionated. [08:43] yep [08:43] i would err on the side of most commonly used alternatives [08:44] yeah [08:44] and/or the most mature / complete alternatives [08:44] that's a better way of putting it [08:44] those should generally overlap [08:44] and also we don't need to be exclusive [08:44] okay, so, list of alternatives [08:44] firstly, what are the main default apps people want alternatives for? [08:44] we can do a paragraph on Chrome, but then list (one word each) the next three popular web browsers (i dunno... epiphany, konqueror, elinks???) [08:44] me personally, firefox, pidgin, GIMP, F-Spot [08:45] GIMP is standard, is it not? [08:45] oh. [08:45] oh wait [08:45] you mean alternatives [08:45] it's not anymore [08:45] yeah [08:45] so to get a list of alternatives, we have to start off with a list of stuff they're replacing [08:45] GIMP isn't? hmm. it was in alpha 1 at least, possibly alpha 2 [08:45] ah, you are right. [08:45] so on my fresh install i remove F-Spot, empathy and install chrome, digiKam and pidgin [08:46] ok, gimp isn't really an alternative. [08:46] gimp isn't in lucid [08:46] it's more an add on (i.e. for "extending") [08:46] yeah, gimp would come under the second bit [08:46] the extension bit [08:46] * humphreybc ahh, the sweet smell of progress [08:46] ok, so firefox -> chrome (+konqueror, epiphany) [08:46] well, opera? [08:46] opera isn't open source. i'd leave this at open source apps for now [08:47] midori? [08:47] flock? [08:47] teminal? [08:47] we can check what the most popular linux browsers are. [08:47] terminal ftw [08:47] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/k4qQtQHrDz [08:47] hang on, i'll check on my work's google analytics [08:47] let's move this to a pad :) [08:51] * humphreybc has finished one bag of lollies [09:25] vish: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/hgBlhqyoMH [09:38] alright, gnite folks. [09:39] night [13:31] thorwil: those are the list of icons required , right? [13:32] vish: i'm not sure if Ben had only that level in mind, but one level deeper would be too many [13:32] yeah.. [13:33] i'll collect the icons e already have and add it to the branch [13:33] s/e/the [13:33] vish: so i added lists for what's all in each chapter as # comments [13:33] argh! e=we [13:33] vish: and finally the few ideas i have [13:34] vish: Default Applications, Troubleshooting and Learning_more make me wonder if we should really do it at all [13:35] * vish nods [13:35] hmm , whats wrong with bzr :/ [14:04] thorwil, vish: for the installation chapter: do most people know what a hard drive looks like? might be better of going with a CD (as in the install CD) instead. [14:05] that would work too [14:05] perhaps [14:05] godbyk: whats wrong with bzr? it doesnt allow me to pull [14:05] vish: lemme try. [14:05] keeps saying some crap about my unprotected key file :/ [14:06] godbyk: the "harddrive" would be just a box in that icon style, anyway [14:06] why does it care :/ [14:06] vish: it's working for me. [14:06] vish: ah, make sure the permissions of your .ssh/id_rsa file are 644. [14:06] er, sorry, 600. [14:06] hmm , is this something new? [14:07] vish: I think ssh complains if the permissions are other. [14:07] Not sure if that's what the actual problem is or not. [14:07] Just taking a shot in the dark. [14:07] worked so long with the same perms [14:07] vish: you are not protecting your key file? do you not think about how it must feel, neglected and without cover? [14:07] bleh ;p [14:07] lol [14:09] * thorwil -> coffee [14:09] vish: The ~/.ssh dir should be 700, also. [14:10] funny thing is it worked so long , not sure if the file permissions changed or bzr changed [14:10] did that fix it? [14:10] i havent tried yet , will be doing it in a sec [14:11] k [14:18] thorwil: Have you done anything more with the cover page or are we still waiting on some big announcement from Ubuntu? [14:18] (just curious, not pressuring!) :-) [14:27] godbyk: is there a way to read the file permissions as numbers rather than using ls -l ? [14:28] vish: I don't know of one, but it wouldn't surprise me if it existed. [14:28] the .ssh dir should be rwx------ [14:29] the .ssh/id_rsa file should be rw------- [14:29] yeah , right now it is 644 , need to change that [14:29] vish: chmod 700 ~/.ssh; chmod 600 ~/.ssh/id_rsa [14:30] yup just did that [14:30] hmm , now it works [14:31] i mean bzr works now.. but i hadnt changed the file permissions , wonder what did that [14:32] the directory was having the right permissions already , but not sure how the key file permissions got changed.. [14:32] vish: good question! [14:32] there is a bug in gnome-keyring , maybe it is related [14:33] lucid got a gnome-keyring update , that is causing a lot of havoc.. but thats a long shot [14:36] nope , not it , the update predates my last bzr interaction [14:43] I just updated http://ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ for anyone who cares. [15:27] godbyk: no, yes [15:29] thorwil: heh. understood. [15:52] hi, i'm currently translating ubuntu manual [15:52] \providecommand{\polang}{en} what should be translated here? [15:55] should I translate last part? {en} to {pl}? [16:33] BlessJah: Nope, you should leave that line as-is. [16:35] what does this line means? [17:07] BlessJah: The \providecommand line? It means: "if the \polang command hasn't already been define, define is to mean 'en'." [17:07] When you run 'make ubuntu-manual-pl.pdf', it sets '\def\polang{pl}'. [17:08] then \polang is passed in as \documentclass[lang=\polang]{ubuntu-manual} [17:08] ok, so it shouldn't be changed into {pl} [17:08] so it's telling the manual what language is being compiled. [17:08] BlessJah: The \providecommand line is just setting 'en' as the default language if a language hasn't already been set. [17:08] BlessJah: But the language is being set in the Makefile. [17:09] ok [17:09] thx [17:09] So you can leave the \providecommand line alone. It doesn't need to be changed. [17:09] BlessJah: no problem. :) [21:46] TommyBrunn: ping [21:59] godbyk: if I wrote in translation dash, it is better to change it to /dash? [21:59] he, my ping killed him. :) [22:02] dutchie: do you know something about this? [22:03] if you are translating \dash{text}, put \dash{translated text} [22:03] no, there no dash in english line, but in our translation is [22:03] what to do in this position? [22:04] oh, so your language has a dash where there is not one in the English? [22:04] yes [22:04] * dutchie is unsure [22:04] it is problem? [22:04] * dutchie is not really in ubuntu-manual mode atm [22:04] just put \dash for now, godbyk will complain if it's wrong [22:05] oh dutchie, sorry I did read your question right [22:05] we have same dash [22:05] you don't want to translate the command, but the text inside the command (the braces) [22:05] could you show us the text you are translating? [22:06] it should give a file reference iirc [22:06] but I'm asking if there no dash in english string and I use dash like "-" in lithuanian translation, it is better to use latex command or I can use "-" [22:07] just use your initiative for now [22:07] ask godbyk when he's back [22:07] ok dutchie , thanks u [22:12] ubuntujenkins: ping [22:26] * humphreybc is meeting up with Launchpad's release manager for coffee this afternoon [22:28] * dutchie thinks that writing a python program to do his physics homework was overkill [22:28] * humphreybc thinks that if dutchie likes python so much mebbe he should help with quickshot [22:28] :P [22:29] :P [22:29] I have been providing ubuntujenkins with hints [22:29] lol [22:29] and I have a copy of the branch [22:29] okay cool [22:29] i'm fearing for the screenshots now [22:29] I never really got round to working out how quickly works properly [22:30] me neither, all i use is quickly run and quickly glade :D [22:30] * dutchie is busy using E = mc² for now [22:30] hehe [22:33] dutchie, fire stuff at me for a to do list [22:33] for the project [22:33] like, detailed stuff [22:33] not "complete chapter 10" [22:33] and not just for me [22:33] i'm putting it on the wiki [22:33] in response to comment from Chris Lees, http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/03/omg-ubuntu-manual-project-gets-website.html [22:34] oh god [22:34] more publicity [22:34] more publicity, yes [22:34] :) [22:34] also there's a quickshot post going up soon too [22:34] btw, ubuntu-manual.org is full of fail on IE7 [22:34] not sure if we should care [22:35] ubuntujenkins: https://edge.launchpad.net/tarmac [22:35] really? [22:35] screenshot please? [22:36] don't have a windows box handy now [22:36] hmm, everything works fine up to the point where I convert from J to MeV [22:36] me neither [22:36] lol [22:36] ill ask my flatmate if he's around [22:37] ah, I had the charge on an electron as 1.6e-29 [22:37] humphreybc and dutchie I am just finishing a group meeting I will talk in ten mins when I get home if thats ok [22:37] silly me [22:38] see you in the? [22:38] *ten [22:42] sure [22:48] godbyk: If I want to use dash in translation, but there is no dash in english line, it is better to use latex code /dash or I can use "-" ? [22:49] hi Red_HamsterX :) [22:49] Hi. [22:49] So, as shadwick was asking, what do you need help with? [22:49] Aside from grabbing screencaps. [22:50] so, basically the manual project is to create a fully fledged, community based, up to date beginners manual with 200 pages, 50 screenshots or so and 40+ languages [22:50] well practically everything - we've only got one python developer working on it, TommyBrunn [22:50] and ubuntujenkins is working on it too [22:50] i'm trying my best to help with the UI [22:50] but the main problem we have is time [22:51] hello [22:51] because the manual needs to be ready for Lucid, we need the screenshots before the 20th April [22:51] getting 2000 consistent screenshots in 40+ languages is a hard undertaking [22:51] so i came up with the idea for quickshot [22:51] which automates a lot of the process [22:51] back again [22:51] I think it's a great idea [22:52] we also need the default ubuntu theme for Lucid, so it creates a new user etc [22:52] * ubuntujenkins checks logs [22:52] shadwick: thanks. we're hoping to make it flexible enough so that other documentation projects can use it too. [22:52] I shouldn't have any trouble dedicating a system for the beta releases. [22:53] And I'm not bad with Python (projects at uguu.ca). [22:53] Red_HamsterX: Even if you don't have a spare system, you could probably do it in a virtual machine. [22:53] but at the moment we're in a bit of trouble because a) I came up with the idea too late (my fault) and b) we've only got two people working on it actively, it's proving more complicated than anticipated [22:53] our project has a huge emphasis on simplicity [22:53] But I'm very short on time. [22:53] right well I can say I need serious help :-0 [22:53] That's what I meant TommyBrunn. [22:53] +comma [22:53] we want to make it as easy as possible for contributors to help with UMP, so we have a tonne of stuff in place to make it easy for them to help out. That's what we want to do with Quickshot, make it so anyone can use it [22:54] What do you need the most help with, Python-wise, TommyBrunn, ubuntujenkins? [22:54] we'd like it ready for the Ubuntu Global Jam so we can get hundreds of people screenshotting [22:54] komsas: Use \dash. [22:54] * ubuntujenkins has spent 3.5 hours staring at a ~1000 cell spreedsheet [22:54] * komsas going to change translation.. [22:54] Red_HamsterX, shadwick, how much do you guys know about bzr and launchpad? [22:55] Currently we pretty much need help with everything. The first thing that springs to mind though, is a way to parse the screenshots branch and somehow serialize the information for each screenshot. [22:55] so that I can add the screen res detect to main I really need a timer mecahnism [22:55] humphreybc, I'm a bit weak on bzr, though I'm very familiar with svn. [22:55] I am looking at the bzr lark [22:55] See, every screenshot will have some sort of information on what should be in it, what language it should be in, etc. [22:55] i'm meeting up with the release manager for launchpad today for coffee [22:55] I was working with the Ubuntu documentation team in preparation for 5.04, so Launchpad's mostly familiar. [22:55] Though it's changed a fair bit since then. [22:55] We need to somehow format that in a consistent manner, so that it can be read by Quickshot. [22:56] there are branches for each language here https://code.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-screenshots?field.lifecycle=ALL [22:56] to discuss the best way to work with the data on launchpad. he has suggested https://launchpad.net/tarmac [22:56] I have written a script to merge them to main. I will look at tarmac tomorrow [22:56] of course we want consistency across all of our translated manuals and within the manuals themselves - which means that stuff like dpi, resolution, theme etc have to be pre-determined and set correctly [22:56] ubuntujenkins: oh nice you've done some of the languages :D [22:57] you have to change the status to any status the merging means they change status to merged but they still work [22:57] if they add any more languages :P [22:58] Anyway, I need to be off to bed now. I'm sick as a dog, and so I need all the rest I can get. Hopefully I can be of more help once I get better. If there are any questions that ubuntujenkins or humphreybc can't answer, feel free to email them to me at tommy.brunn@gmail.com [22:58] yep, and also email me at humphreybc@gmail.com or catch me on google talk - it goes to my cellphone and i'll reply pretty much immediately unless i'm asleep [22:58] Red_HamsterX I could really do with some help with one last bit on the screen resolution stuff then it can go into main for testing [22:59] well as cool as this project is, I don't think I'll be able to help out [22:59] best of luck though [22:59] ubuntujenkins, just point me at the code and leave a "todo" block of comments and I'll see what I can hack out. I'm in UTC-7. [23:00] I will give you an explination and add TODOs in a moment, my branch is untidy as I use it for experiments. [23:00] I'll do my best to mirror your style. [23:00] thats sounds good though. [23:01] it fine I will add all of the screen res change to a seperatef ile for main [23:01] I am just changing permissons for my branch [23:01] (I'll likely be unable to do much today, though. I won't be home 'til late and I need to be up early tomorrow. I'll look over the code and make note of what I already know how to do, though) [23:02] Red_HamsterX: if you want to just hang out in here and we can chat about quickshot stuff. i have to update the wiki at some point too [23:02] sweet [23:02] are you on the quickshot devs team? Red... [23:02] so, our target completion date is the 18th March for a working version, 31st March for a stable version [23:02] I know that's less than 3 weeks away [23:02] we have a plan B if quickshot isn't ready [23:02] Red_HamsterX: what's your lp username and i'll add you to the quickshot devs [23:03] ubuntujenkins: should we make it an open team [23:03] ? [23:03] I figured I'd just give you patches like with most other projects. [23:03] erm can we add more people who can approve members? [23:03] yeah i'll make you an admin [23:03] and Tommy [23:03] Red_Hamster my e-mail is ubuntujenkins@googlemail.com [23:04] cheers ben [23:04] https://edge.launchpad.net/~red-hamsterx [23:04] Red_Hamster bzr branch lp:~quickshotdevs/quickshot/luke-quickshot is my branch I will make some changes before I go to bed [23:04] You should be able to get what you need from that. [23:04] I'm on Google Talk at red.hamsterx@gmail.com. [23:05] what's your real name for my contacts list? [23:05] Neil Tallim; it's what I broadcast anyway. [23:05] sweet [23:06] * humphreybc needs to have lunch soon [23:06] Red_HamsterX: I'm +13 btw [23:07] NZ [23:07] \o/ [23:07] That explains why you said 'lunch' and not 'sleep'. [23:07] when the user clicks the button to change their resolution a new window pops up. In this window there is a button that has to be to clicked with in seconds or they are logged out. The 15 seconds deley doesn't exist I know the loog out command [23:07] http://media.joshh.co.uk/graph.png produced using 75 lines of Python [23:07] @ Red_HamsterX [23:07] ubuntujenkins: Error: "Red_HamsterX" is not a valid command. [23:07]