[00:00] <cprofitt> #startmeeting -- Ubuntu Beginners Team --
[00:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 18:00. The chair is cprofitt.
[00:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[00:00] <cprofitt> Hello everyone
[00:00] <cjohnston> o/
[00:00] <Hellow> cprofitt, I thought we was waiting for nhandler?
[00:00] <cprofitt> can I get a roll call of Beginners Team members
[00:00] <jgoguen> o/
[00:00] <Silver_Fox_> o/
[00:00] <lukjad86> o/
[00:01] <Hellow> (also, it's quite apparently I'm here - for once in a year)
[00:01] <cprofitt> thank you all for being here
[00:01] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Vote on change in how we vote to a more inclusive method
[00:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Vote on change in how we vote to a more inclusive method
[00:02] <cprofitt> We have had a test of a voting system
[00:02] <cprofitt> and I would like to see if anyone had any feedback about that
[00:02] <pedro3005> hi guys
[00:02] <cprofitt> if not we can move to a vote
[00:03] <jgoguen> I quite like being able to assign preferences on multiple outcomes
[00:03] <cprofitt> I want to ensure that you all understand that this is not a vote on which system to use
[00:03] <pleia2> sorry, here, am at work
[00:03] <Silver_Fox_> Nothing from me.  Though I would like clarification.  Can a vote be made in private via this method ?
[00:03] <cprofitt> but a vote on if the team would like to use a system that is more inclusive
[00:03] <cprofitt> Silver_Fox_: we are not, at this time, picking a method
[00:03] <Silver_Fox_> Okay cprofitt .
[00:03] <cprofitt> just confirming a desire to move to an inclusive method
[00:03] <nhandler> o/
[00:04] <cprofitt> yes nhandler
[00:04] <nhandler> cprofitt: No comment, just arrived for the meeting ;)
[00:04] <cprofitt> k
[00:04] <paultag> cprofitt, can we define inclusive?
[00:04] <PabloRubianes> the meeting officialy started?
[00:05] <cprofitt> paultag: allowing a greater number of members to vote
[00:05] <paultag> I hate emotional terms
[00:05] <jgoguen> PabloRubianes: Yes
[00:05] <PabloRubianes> jgoguen: thanks
[00:05] <cprofitt> using a 'system' that does not require attendance at a specified time
[00:05] <paultag> cprofitt, OK. The goal is to increase voter turnout?
[00:05] <cprofitt> yes... partially
[00:05] <paultag> OK
[00:05] <Silver_Fox_> o/
[00:06] <Hellow> o/
[00:06] <cprofitt> the other goal is to make sure as we grow that people in more 'remote' timezones feel that they can have an impact on the vote
[00:06] <cprofitt> Silver_Fox_:
[00:06] <Silver_Fox_> Ignore,  you just answered my query
[00:06] <Silver_Fox_> :)
[00:06] <cprofitt> Hellow:
[00:06] <Hellow> I don't know if this would happen or not, but wouldn't such a system decrease turnout at meetings?
[00:06] <PabloRubianes> I think also the method should secure only members voting
[00:06] <cprofitt> Hellow: it might
[00:07] <pleia2> o/
[00:07] <Hellow> Which could be detrimental to the communication in the team.
[00:07] <cprofitt> PabloRubianes: we are not picking the method tonight
[00:07] <cprofitt> yes pleia2 ?
[00:07] <pleia2> we use voting for a lot, if we were to set up a voting thing like nhandler did for *every single decision* it would be a bit crazy
[00:07] <pleia2> so I'm wondering if there could be some kind of threshold for important/major decisions
[00:07] <ibuclaw> o/
[00:08] <cprofitt> Hellow -- I think having a group of people feeling excluded from decisions is detrimental to the team as well. Given the mailing list we have multiple methods for communication.
[00:08] <lukjad86> o/
[00:08] <pleia2> because on the really important things I think we want voting from everyone possible
[00:08] <cprofitt> pleia2: that has been discussed
[00:08] <cprofitt> lukjad86:
[00:08] <PabloRubianes> cprofitt: i just saying that...
[00:08] <lukjad86> I would like to second pleia2's comment, since she basically said what I was thinking
[00:08] <cprofitt> PabloRubianes: I agree...
[00:08] <cprofitt> just wanted to make sure that you know we are not picking the method
[00:08] <cprofitt> I agree... lukjad86
[00:08] <cprofitt> and pleia2
[00:09] <paultag> So we are having a vote to decide if we should vote to change the voting system
[00:09] <cprofitt> tonight's vote is not on a specific method - but a desire to do so
[00:09] <paultag> just so we are clear
[00:09] <cprofitt> then my goal would be to form a small group to evaluate options...
[00:09] <cprofitt> allow people to see them all and comment
[00:09] <PabloRubianes> cprofitt: +1
[00:09] <pleia2> I guess my point is that I'd like to see major decisions be more global-friendly, but small ones at meetings seem reasonable (so I can't realy vote fully one way or the other)
[00:09] <cprofitt> then potentially test the tops two out
[00:09] <cprofitt> and make a final move
[00:09] <lukjad86> cprofitt I agree, and I would like to offer my help in this matter
[00:10]  * cjohnston still thinks if we move one vote we should move all votes
[00:10] <Hellow> I second lukjad86 in offering my assistance in this.
[00:10] <paultag> Again, to be clear -- we are having a vote to decide if we should vote to change the voting system
[00:10] <Silver_Fox_> o/
[00:10] <cprofitt> pleia2: what I suggested was major rules/format/strucutre votes be global
[00:10] <cprofitt> new member approval still me meeting only
[00:10] <Silver_Fox_> Ignore..
[00:10] <cprofitt> yes, paultag
[00:10] <pleia2> cprofitt: ok, that was somewhat unclear :)
[00:10] <cprofitt> well... this is not a final type decision at this time pleia2
[00:10] <cprofitt> so I would imagine we will flesh the details out more
[00:10] <cprofitt> I would like to move to a vote
[00:11] <cprofitt> any objections?
[00:11] <nhandler> Nope
[00:11] <lukjad86> nope
[00:11] <Silver_Fox_> Non from me.
[00:11] <PabloRubianes> no
[00:11] <cprofitt> [VOTE] The BT team would like to move to a more inclusive method of voting on issues that concern team structure or leadership positions
[00:11] <MootBot> Please vote on:  The BT team would like to move to a more inclusive method of voting on issues that concern team structure or leadership positions.
[00:11] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:11] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:11] <paultag> +0
[00:11] <MootBot> Abstention received from paultag. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
[00:11] <cprofitt> +1
[00:11] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:11] <lukjad86> +1
[00:11] <MootBot> +1 received from lukjad86. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:11] <Hellow> +1
[00:11] <nhandler> +1
[00:11] <MootBot> +1 received from Hellow. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:11] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:11] <ibuclaw> +0
[00:11] <MootBot> Abstention received from ibuclaw. 4 for, 0 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:11] <MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 4 for, 1 against, 2 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:11] <jgoguen> +1
[00:11] <MootBot> +1 received from jgoguen. 5 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:12] <Silver_Fox_> +1
[00:12] <MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 6 for, 1 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:12] <cprofitt> any last votes
[00:12] <cprofitt> last call for votes
[00:12] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[00:12] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 1 against. 2 abstained. Total: 5
[00:12] <cprofitt> [AGREED] The BT team would like to move to a more inclusive method of voting on issues that concern team structure or leadership positions
[00:12] <MootBot> AGREED received:  The BT team would like to move to a more inclusive method of voting on issues that concern team structure or leadership positions
[00:13] <cprofitt> [ACTION] cprofitt will form a small group to investigate potential options and present those to the team via the email list
[00:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cprofitt will form a small group to investigate potential options and present those to the team via the email list
[00:13] <cprofitt> is anyone willing to volunteer to help with that?
[00:13] <nhandler> o/
[00:13] <Hellow> o/
[00:13] <cjohnston> o/
[00:13] <cprofitt> thank you
[00:13] <lukjad86> o/
[00:13] <lukjad86> cprofitt sorry, for being so slow :)
[00:13] <nhandler> I would like to suggest keeping it as a *small* group
[00:14] <cprofitt> yes... the four people there should be good
[00:14] <PabloRubianes> nice group
[00:14] <cprofitt> [ACTION] nhandler Hellow cjohnston lukjad86 will form the small group with cprofitt
[00:14] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler Hellow cjohnston lukjad86 will form the small group with cprofitt
[00:14] <cprofitt> [TOPIC]The BT team would like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members.
[00:14] <MootBot> New Topic: The BT team would like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members.
[00:14] <cprofitt> please note that this again is for structure/leadership votes only
[00:15] <nhandler> o/
[00:15] <cprofitt> to me this will be unnecessary if we move to an inclusive method
[00:15] <cjohnston> o/
[00:15] <lukjad86> Questions?
[00:15] <cprofitt> but there is potentially some value to it
[00:15] <cprofitt> hold Qs for a secon
[00:15] <lukjad86> k
[00:15] <cprofitt> I would not suggest 2/3rd majority or anything of that nature
[00:16] <PabloRubianes> I think this is good if the team member's list is updated
[00:16] <cprofitt> but perhaps 40% of all members must vote in a vote to make the vote count
[00:16] <cprofitt> then a simple majority would be acceptable
[00:16] <cprofitt> nhandler: go
[00:16] <Silver_Fox_> o/
[00:16] <lukjad86> PabloRubianes That has been taken care of with nhandler
[00:16] <PabloRubianes> good...
[00:17] <cprofitt> nhandler: ?
[00:17] <nhandler> I think even 40% might be a bit high. I would rather suggest that if we move to a more inclusive method of voting, we simply leave the vote open for X days to give people a chance to vote. If it looks like it has fallen off the radar, the vote creator sends out a reminder
[00:17] <pleia2> nhandler: +1
[00:17] <nhandler> I would hate to have to wait X *weeks* for certain non-active people to participate
[00:17] <cprofitt> good idea nhandler
[00:17] <cprofitt> cjohnston: go
[00:17] <cjohnston> couple things
[00:18] <cjohnston> If we are moving to a more inclusive method, it would be logical to require a certain amount to vote.
[00:18] <cjohnston> You say 2/3rd majority.. Is that 2/3rds to make a vote valid or 2/3rds of +1 or -1...
[00:18] <lukjad86> I would suggest that these good ideas be part of the group discussion and not be done here in the meeting for time reasons.
[00:18] <cprofitt> I actually said 2/3 was a bad idea
[00:18] <cjohnston> sorry.. missed the not.. :-/
[00:18] <cprofitt> SilverFox: go
[00:18] <Silver_Fox_> Launchpad indicates that the team is 67 members strong.  We will struggle to hit anything like 40% turnout for voting .  Are you saying that we will use a different method to determine who is a team member?
[00:19] <ibuclaw> Silver_Fox_, we are already using a new method :)
[00:19] <nhandler> ibuclaw: Not really. The LP member list is still the official list
[00:19] <cprofitt> Silver_Fox_: no -- if we use a method that kept voting open for a week or so
[00:19] <ibuclaw> well, the renewal process... which should see that number fall
[00:19] <nhandler> We just changed the way renewals happen to try and get a better idea of who is active
[00:19] <cprofitt> then 40% would be 26.8 people
[00:19] <cprofitt> we have made inactive people expire though
[00:20] <cprofitt> and LP will still be our 'source' list
[00:20] <cprofitt> 40% may be too high
[00:20] <Silver_Fox_> It is very easy to click a link in an email to renew.  Very little thought involved
[00:20] <cprofitt> 30% might be better -- if people feel that is important
[00:20] <cprofitt> the main reason I suggested the more inclusive member was to 'include' people
[00:20] <lukjad86> Silver_Fox_ It no longer is like that though, it's a manual renewal with a launchpad admin
[00:20] <Silver_Fox_> Oh good :)
[00:21] <cprofitt> and I really do not want a 'rule' that invalidates votes based on inactivity
[00:21] <nhandler> cprofitt: This percent or period of time to keep a vote open will probably depend on the method we choose to use for votes
[00:21] <lukjad86> Silver_Fox_ I had to do it, so I remember :)
[00:21] <cprofitt> I added it to the agenda because it was suggested
[00:21] <cprofitt> nhandler: +1
[00:21] <cprofitt> nhandler: it could even vary -- depending on the importance of the issue
[00:21] <cjohnston> o/
[00:21] <cprofitt> cjohnston: go
[00:21] <persia> Some time back the MOTU team set up a process by which everyone would have a chance to share their views and a decisions could be reached by rough consensus.  A thread introducing the idea started at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2008-June/004060.html
[00:22] <cjohnston> Can I recommend that this be ammended to be a part of the discussion for the group from the last vote and then presents?
[00:22] <persia> This may or may not work, but it does tend to scale well, it there are real issues to be decided.
[00:22] <cprofitt> thanks persia
[00:22] <cprofitt> I will take a look at that
[00:22] <cjohnston> s/presents/presented
[00:22] <cprofitt> any objections moving to a vote?
[00:22] <lukjad86> cprofitt A vote on what?
[00:22] <lukjad86> Exactly
[00:23] <cprofitt> cjohnston: if it passes then we can ammend it to the previous groups task
[00:23] <nhandler> persia: That process was only really used a few times iirc, do you remember the reason behind that? Was it that the meetings sort of stopped?
[00:23] <cjohnston> What is the vote question please
[00:23] <cprofitt> [VOTE]The BT team would like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members.
[00:23] <MootBot> Please vote on: The BT team would like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members..
[00:23] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:23] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:23] <cprofitt> -1
[00:23] <MootBot> -1 received from cprofitt. 0 for, 1 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -1
[00:23] <nhandler> -1
[00:23] <MootBot> -1 received from nhandler. 0 for, 2 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -2
[00:23] <lukjad86> -1
[00:23] <MootBot> -1 received from lukjad86. 0 for, 3 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now -3
[00:23] <cjohnston> +0
[00:23] <Silver_Fox_> +0
[00:23] <MootBot> Abstention received from cjohnston. 0 for, 3 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now -3
[00:23] <MootBot> Abstention received from Silver_Fox_. 0 for, 3 against. 2 have abstained. Count is now -3
[00:23] <PabloRubianes> +0
[00:23] <MootBot> Abstention received from PabloRubianes. 0 for, 3 against. 3 have abstained. Count is now -3
[00:23] <MootBot> Private abstention received. 0 for, 3 against. 4 abstained. Count is now -3
[00:23] <ibuclaw> +0
[00:23] <MootBot> Abstention received from ibuclaw. 0 for, 3 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now -3
[00:24] <pleia2> -1
[00:24] <MootBot> -1 received from pleia2. 0 for, 4 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now -4
[00:24] <lukjad86> I'm voting -1 because I think we can't decide on this before we actually decide how we are voting
[00:24] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:25] <paultag> -1
[00:25] <MootBot> -1 received from paultag. 0 for, 5 against. 5 have abstained. Count is now -5
[00:25] <MootBot> Private -1 vote received. 0 for, 6 against, 5 have abstained. Count is now -6
[00:25] <cprofitt> last call for votes
[00:25] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[00:25] <MootBot> Final result is 0 for, 6 against. 5 abstained. Total: -6
[00:25] <persia> nhandler: IT was two things: 1) the meetings sort of stopped, and 2) many things were considered not important enough to need formal agreement so the process was used in abbreviated form (in that we reached consensus without needing to have led discussions to formalise it).
[00:25] <nhandler> persia: Alright, thanks a lot
[00:25] <cprofitt> [AGREED]The BT team would NOT like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members.
[00:25] <MootBot> AGREED received: The BT team would NOT like to move to a method of voting on issues that concern team structure or team leadership positions that requires a percentage of total team members.
[00:26] <cprofitt> would anyone like to address the topic easwar put on the agenda?
[00:26] <nhandler> o/
[00:26] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Decision on logging of #ubuntu-beginners
[00:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Decision on logging of #ubuntu-beginners
[00:26] <cprofitt> go nhandler
[00:26] <nhandler> Basically, #ubuntu-beginners is now our support channel
[00:27] <nhandler> It should be all CoC compliant and appropriate. There should be no behavior in there that would reflect poorly on any individual or the team
[00:27] <nhandler> It is also no longer a "social" channel
[00:27] <nhandler> As a result, I see no reason why we can not make public logs available of it
[00:27] <paultag> I'd agree with nhandler at this point
[00:27] <nhandler> The logs of a support channel can often prove to be very valuable references
[00:27] <lukjad86> o/
[00:27] <nhandler> Go ahead lukjad86
[00:28] <ibuclaw> nhandler, I thought logs went live circa Mid-February.
[00:28] <ibuclaw> or was that procrastinated?
[00:28] <lukjad86> nhandler I agree with you that since this is now a support channel, the logs should be published, but only as of the decision made at this meeting and not from before.
[00:28] <cjohnston> I believe it was put off
[00:28] <nhandler> ibuclaw: No, we held off on making a decision due to changing the irc structure
[00:28] <cprofitt> any other comments before we move to a vote?
[00:28] <nhandler> lukjad86: That would be what would happen
[00:29] <lukjad86> I would also like to suggest a short, maybe week long "cooldown" period
[00:29] <nhandler> lukjad86: What do you mean?
[00:29] <lukjad86> Just where we warn everyone several times that the channel will be logged as of [DATE]
[00:29] <lukjad86> And put it in the topic
[00:29] <nhandler> lukjad86: It will take a while to get the bot in the channel to do the logging ;)
[00:30] <nhandler> So that cool down period will happen anyway
[00:30] <lukjad86> nhandler Yeah, but I mean that we should actively mention this :)
[00:30] <nhandler> I have no objections to that
[00:30] <nhandler> Any other comments?
[00:30] <lukjad86> Nope :)
[00:31] <nhandler> cprofitt: Shall we vote?
[00:31] <cprofitt> [VOTE] #ubuntu-beginners will be logged and there will be a one week notice to team members - the fact that the channel is logged will also be included in the /topic
[00:31] <MootBot> Please vote on:  #ubuntu-beginners will be logged and there will be a one week notice to team members - the fact that the channel is logged will also be included in the /topic.
[00:31] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:31] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:31] <cprofitt> +1
[00:31] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:31] <cjohnston> +1
[00:31] <MootBot> +1 received from cjohnston. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:31] <pleia2> +1
[00:31] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:31] <lukjad86> +1
[00:31] <MootBot> +1 received from lukjad86. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:31] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:31] <ibuclaw> +1
[00:31] <MootBot> +1 received from ibuclaw. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:31] <nhandler> +1
[00:31] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 7 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:31] <cprofitt> last call for votes
[00:31] <Silver_Fox_> +0
[00:31] <MootBot> Abstention received from Silver_Fox_. 7 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:31] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:32] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 8 for, 0 against, 1 have abstained. Count is now 8
[00:32] <PabloRubianes> +1
[00:32] <MootBot> +1 received from PabloRubianes. 9 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 9
[00:32] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[00:32] <MootBot> Final result is 9 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 9
[00:32] <nhandler> cprofitt: Please give me the action to get this stuff sorted out
[00:32] <cprofitt> [agreed] #ubuntu-beginners will be logged and there will be a one week notice to team members - the fact that the channel is logged will also be included in the /topic
[00:32] <MootBot> AGREED received:  #ubuntu-beginners will be logged and there will be a one week notice to team members - the fact that the channel is logged will also be included in the /topic
[00:32] <cprofitt> [ACTION]nhandler will craft a message to the team and sort out how the channel will be logged
[00:32] <MootBot> ACTION received: nhandler will craft a message to the team and sort out how the channel will be logged
[00:33] <cprofitt> [ACTION] nhandler will manage the topic for the channel to ensure that notice is given that the channel is logged
[00:33] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler will manage the topic for the channel to ensure that notice is given that the channel is logged
[00:33] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Re-purpose #ubunt-beginners-team
[00:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Re-purpose #ubunt-beginners-team
[00:33] <cprofitt> nhandler: go
[00:33] <nhandler> Basically, I proposed turning #ubuntu-beginners-team into how the old #ubuntu-beginners channel used to be. The only exception would be that it would be CoC-compliant. We could then shut down ##cabaret (or break all ties to it)
[00:33] <cjohnston> +1
[00:34] <lukjad86> I'd support that
[00:34] <lukjad86> If fact, I pretty much treat it as such. :)
[00:34] <nhandler> It didn't really have any criticism or objections on the ML. Are there any now?
[00:34] <Silver_Fox_> I miss the chatter from the channel.
[00:34] <pleia2> lukjad86: yeah, me too
[00:34] <jgoguen> +1 Silver_Fox_, it's not as lively as it once was
[00:34] <Silver_Fox_> Now very few speak :( Not a community atmosphere in my opinion
[00:35] <nhandler> If there are no objections/comments/questions, we can move to a vote
[00:35] <PabloRubianes> Silver_Fox_: +1
[00:35] <cprofitt> +1 to needing more community atmosphere
[00:35] <cprofitt> will this channel be logged?
[00:35] <nhandler> cprofitt: Not right now
[00:35] <Silver_Fox_> o/
[00:35] <nhandler> I don't think many people would appreciate it being logged if it is more social
[00:35] <nhandler> Go Silver_Fox_
[00:35] <cprofitt> + 1 nhandler
[00:36] <cprofitt> that is why I was asking
[00:36] <Silver_Fox_> RE:  Logging this channel.  will this be made into another item to vote on in a different meeting if needed?
[00:36] <lukjad86> nhandler +1 to the no logging
[00:36]  * cjohnston thinks it should be logged for when official things are spoken of... 
[00:36] <nhandler> Silver_Fox_ If it seems that people wish for it to be logged, it might get voted on in the future.
[00:36] <Silver_Fox_> Thank you for clarification nhandler  :)
[00:36] <nhandler> cjohnston: We have private logs if necessary
[00:37] <nhandler> Can we vote on the proposal?
[00:37] <cprofitt> any more comments before moving to a vote
[00:37] <lukjad86> non
[00:37] <cprofitt> [VOTE] #ubuntu-beginners-team will be a more social environment - #cabaret will be deprecated - #ubuntu-beginners-team will not be logged
[00:37] <MootBot> Please vote on:  #ubuntu-beginners-team will be a more social environment - #cabaret will be deprecated - #ubuntu-beginners-team will not be logged.
[00:37] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:37] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:38] <cjohnston> +1
[00:38] <MootBot> +1 received from cjohnston. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:38] <cprofitt> +1
[00:38] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:38] <pleia2> +1
[00:38] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:38] <Silver_Fox_> +1
[00:38] <MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:38] <lukjad86> +1
[00:38] <nhandler> +1
[00:38] <MootBot> +1 received from lukjad86. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:38] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:38] <MootBot> Private +1 vote received. 7 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 7
[00:38] <MootBot> Private abstention received. 7 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Count is now 7
[00:38] <cprofitt> any more votes
[00:38] <cprofitt> last call for votes
[00:38] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[00:38] <MootBot> Final result is 7 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 7
[00:39] <nhandler> I'll talk to bodhi to sort out ##cabaret. Does someone want to send out an email to the ML.
[00:39] <cprofitt> [AGREED] #ubuntu-beginners-team will be a more social environment - #cabaret will be deprecated - #ubuntu-beginners-team will not be logged
[00:39] <MootBot> AGREED received:  #ubuntu-beginners-team will be a more social environment - #cabaret will be deprecated - #ubuntu-beginners-team will not be logged
[00:39] <cjohnston> o/
[00:39] <cprofitt> [ACTION] cjohnston will send a message to the list about the irc channel changes
[00:39] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjohnston will send a message to the list about the irc channel changes
[00:39] <cprofitt> thanks cjohnston
[00:39] <cjohnston> yup
[00:39] <cprofitt> [TOPIC] Council and Focus Group Leader Elections
[00:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  Council and Focus Group Leader Elections
[00:39] <cprofitt> go nhandler
[00:40] <nhandler> Basically, it is time for Council elections. I sent a basic plan to the ML
[00:40] <nhandler> CIVS pretty much has to be used until LP gains more features for votes
[00:40] <nhandler> The only item of my plan that is still getting sorted out is how to generate the short list of nominees
[00:40] <cprofitt> nhandler: I would like to hold on the elections until we have settled the method for voting
[00:41] <nhandler> cprofitt: This is separate from the other voting stuff
[00:41] <cprofitt> I am hoping we can do that by the next meeting -- is that enough time?
[00:41] <nhandler> CIVs *needs* to be used
[00:41] <cjohnston> I would like to see elections happen with release cycles.. so it needs to be started
[00:41] <Silver_Fox_> o/
[00:41] <cprofitt> go Silver_Fox_
[00:41] <nhandler> cjohnston: bodhi proposed Coucnil elections with each LTS release
[00:41] <cprofitt> nhandler: how can we say CIVS must or needs to be used if the team has not decided to use it?
[00:42] <cjohnston> nhandler: right.. what im saying is if we hold off, it wont happen with the lts imo
[00:42] <Silver_Fox_> @ cjohnston would that be the new council begins the election process when new LTS released or is up and running ?
[00:42] <nhandler> cprofitt: The other proposed options were LP or a bot. Neither of which would work for the type of vote required to elect a council
[00:42] <cprofitt> nhandler: I agree...
[00:42] <cjohnston> Silver_Fox_: my recomendation would be that the vote happen the meeting the month of the release.. and then release time is when the actual change happens
[00:42] <nhandler> Silver_Fox_: The new council's term would start with the LTS release
[00:42] <cprofitt> but until the team has agreed -- can we really force the issue?
[00:43] <Silver_Fox_> Then election needs to happen now then :)
[00:43] <Hellow> cprofitt, There's not a better option than CIVS, from what I can tell.
[00:43] <cjohnston> Silver_Fox_: agreed.. next month
[00:43] <nhandler> cprofitt: Due to technical limitations of the others, I believe there is no decision to vote on wrt voting method
[00:43] <cprofitt> by May 1st then?
[00:43] <cprofitt> nhandler: I agree...
[00:43] <cjohnston> vote to happen the week of the april meeting imo
[00:43] <nhandler> cjohnston Silver_Fox_: It is more than a simple vote, it will take a few weeks to do
[00:44] <cprofitt> just curious if the team needs to accept that or if we have the authority as the council to make a decision
[00:44] <Hellow> nhandler, Indeed, I believe we need to at least begin starting it now.
[00:44] <Silver_Fox_> I imagine it would do nhandler
[00:44] <cprofitt> Council to assume by May 1st with April meeting for vote?
[00:44] <nhandler> Hellow: If my plan is approved, I would get the ball rolling after the meeting
[00:44] <nhandler> cprofitt: The vote will not be at a meeting
[00:44] <Silver_Fox_> Sooner the better as far as I am concerned in getting it sorted out
[00:45] <cprofitt> so -- as a group we need to decide to use CIVS
[00:45] <cprofitt> that is the vote for tonight; correct?
[00:45] <cjohnston> its just for one vote
[00:45] <cprofitt> ok... CIVS for Council and FG lead vote
[00:45] <cjohnston> there doesnt need to be a decision on what to use
[00:45] <cprofitt> that the right vote?
[00:45] <Hellow> cprofitt, I don't think there's another option currently.
[00:45] <nhandler> +1 Hellow
[00:45] <cprofitt> actually cjohnston nhandler is saying we do have to choose
[00:45] <cprofitt> tonight
[00:45] <cprofitt> to make the time
[00:46] <nhandler> Basically, the vote is for my plan on the whole process
[00:46] <cprofitt> if I am following
[00:46] <cprofitt> this would be a one-time vote decision
[00:46] <cjohnston> the vote is to go forward with the plan
[00:46] <cjohnston> not voting how to vote
[00:46] <nhandler> The short list details will get sorted out by the council
[00:46] <cprofitt> from then after the officially adopted solution would be used
[00:46] <cprofitt> nhandler: please confirm
[00:46] <cprofitt> we would vote on using CIVS for electing the new council and FG leads for usein an April vote
[00:47] <cprofitt> yes?
[00:47] <nhandler> cprofitt: No. CIVS needs to be used for these types of elections. The normal decision making vote is completely separate
[00:47] <nhandler> We are voting to approve https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-beginners/2010-February/000445.html
[00:47] <cprofitt> ok... so we are just voting to have a vote
[00:48] <cprofitt> and the method will be chosen later
[00:48] <lukjad86> Again? hah
[00:48] <cprofitt> (even though there are no options)
[00:48] <nhandler> cprofitt: We are voting to go forward with the proposed process
[00:48] <cjohnston> We are voting to go ahead with the plan of how to do this..
[00:48] <cjohnston> The plan has not been voted on yet..
[00:48] <cprofitt> 1) Users nominate people by sending an email to
[00:48] <cprofitt> ubuntu-beginners-council@ or PMing a current council member. Only
[00:48] <cprofitt> current BT members can make nominations, and the BT Council will
[00:48] <cprofitt> confirm that any users who are nominated by another person accept the
[00:48] <cprofitt> nomination.
[00:48] <cprofitt> 2) All nominees should update their wiki pages and collect
[00:48] <cprofitt> testimonials (preferably from BT members) during this time.
[00:48] <cprofitt> 3) The BT Council will create a short list of nominees (We can
[00:48] <cprofitt> determine the size of this short list later).
[00:48] <cprofitt> 4) The Council will create a poll for all BT members to vote (we can
[00:48] <cprofitt> use CIVS like they did for the CC election)
[00:48] <cprofitt> so that is the plan nhandler?
[00:49] <nhandler> cprofitt: Yes
[00:49] <cprofitt> k
[00:49] <Silver_Fox_> Please don't do that again cprofitt :)
[00:49] <cprofitt> can you update the meeting page please -- that was not on there and it should have been
[00:49] <cprofitt> make it #3
[00:49] <nhandler> cprofitt: The plan was sent to the ML to be discussed at it should have been
[00:49] <cprofitt> did everyone get a chance to read the link?
[00:49] <cjohnston> yes
[00:49] <cprofitt> nhandler: we also need to add that to the meeting page
[00:49] <Silver_Fox_> I have read it.
[00:50] <cprofitt> ok...
[00:50] <lukjad86> eyah
[00:50] <cprofitt> [VOTE] The BT team will hold elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list
[00:50] <MootBot> Please vote on:  The BT team will hold elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list.
[00:50] <MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
[00:50] <MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
[00:50] <cprofitt> +1
[00:50] <MootBot> +1 received from cprofitt. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:51] <lukjad86> +0
[00:51] <MootBot> Abstention received from lukjad86. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
[00:51] <Hellow> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from Hellow. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
[00:51] <pleia2> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from pleia2. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
[00:51] <cjohnston> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from cjohnston. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
[00:51] <Silver_Fox_> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from Silver_Fox_. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
[00:51] <nhandler> +1
[00:51] <MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
[00:51] <cprofitt> any more votes?
[00:51] <lukjad86> I don't think so
[00:51] <cprofitt> last call for votes
[00:51] <cprofitt> [ENDVOTE]
[00:51] <MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6
[00:52] <nhandler> I can get the ball rolling for this
[00:52] <cprofitt> [AGREED] The BT team will hold elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list
[00:52] <MootBot> AGREED received:  The BT team will hold elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list
[00:52] <cjohnston> nhandler: do you need help with it?
[00:52] <cprofitt> [ACTION] nhandler will communicate with the team about  elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list
[00:52] <MootBot> ACTION received:  nhandler will communicate with the team about  elections for Council and FG Leadership positions using the system included on the Fri Feb 5 23:12:36 GMT 2010 mail to the mailing list
[00:52] <nhandler> cjohnston: We'll see
[00:52] <cprofitt> thanks nhandler
[00:52]  * nhandler goes to dinner
[00:53] <cprofitt> thanks everyone for attending the meeting
[00:53] <cprofitt> #endmeeting
[00:53] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 18:53.
[00:53] <lukjad86> Bai all
[00:53]  * lukjad86 goes to cocoa
[00:53] <PabloRubianes> bye... dinner
[00:53] <Silver_Fox_> au revoir
[13:51] <jiboumans> o/
[13:52] <hggdh> ~0~
[13:53] <zul> jambo
[13:54] <nijaba> jambo bwana
[13:56] <smoser> |o
[13:56] <sommer> o//
[13:56] <zul> nijaba: grrr now i have that song in my head
[13:57] <nijaba> zul: akuna, akuna matata
[13:58] <kirkland`> o/
[13:59] <ttx> o/
[14:00] <alexm> o/
[14:00] <ttx> OK, let's get started...
[14:00] <jmdault> o/
[14:00] <ttx> #startmeeting
[14:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:00. The chair is ttx.
[14:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:00] <mjeanson> o/
[14:00] <ttx> Our beloved leader is stuck in boring calls, so i'll chair
[14:00] <ttx> I'll also scribe today, lucky me.
[14:00] <ttx> Agenda is at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[14:01] <ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[14:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[14:01]  * jjohansen1 waves
[14:01] <ttx> ACTION: kirkland to publish tentative bugzapping roadmap
[14:02] <kirkland`> ttx: done, though, i should probably update it
[14:02] <ttx> kirkland`: ack
[14:02] <ttx> [TOPIC] Beta1 status review (ttx)
[14:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Beta1 status review (ttx)
[14:02] <ttx> So we are at the beginning of the beta1 subcycle... but not very far from the end of it
[14:03] <ttx> Especially I wanted to bring your attention to Beta1Freeze, which is Thursday next week
[14:03] <ttx> It's a hard freeze this time... so better get your features in before that date
[14:03] <ttx> s/features/bugfixes/
[14:04] <ttx> smoser: how is EBS root coming along ?
[14:04] <smoser> i got all the tools (i think) moved over to using the new api tools
[14:04] <smoser> which is a requirement.
[14:04] <smoser> no ebs root volumes yet, but... crossing fingers, hopefully soon
[14:05] <ttx> smoser: maybe you should have a work item about that new API tool prerequisite, that you could mark done ?
[14:05] <smoser> i can... i left it in progress to see if todays builds fell all over the floor
[14:05] <ttx> smoser: ok
[14:05] <smoser> there is a item
[14:06] <ttx> smoser: ok, good then :)
[14:06] <ttx> No other questions, anyone wants to report blockage / issues ?
[14:06] <zul> nope
[14:06] <ttx> For reference, tracking is at http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04-beta-1.html
[14:07] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[14:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[14:07] <ttx> hggdh: hi !
[14:07] <ttx> hggdh: how is it going so far ?
[14:07] <hggdh> nothing new on my front, except the MySQL FTBFS is still there
[14:07] <hggdh> (on the regression PPA)
[14:07] <zul> hggdh: working on it as we speak
[14:08] <ttx> hggdh: did you start looking into the UEC test rig ?
[14:08] <hggdh> and I am happy kirkland` has put up the qemu event... perhaps then I get get the bloody thing to work on my laptop ;-)
[14:08] <hggdh> ttx: no, did not have time. Today is a good day, though.
[14:09] <ttx> mathiaz: could you help hggdh on that matter ?
[14:09] <ttx> ideally, hggdh should be able to run the post-A3, pre-beta1 tests
[14:10] <ttx> hmm, looks like we don't have mathiaz today.
[14:11] <ttx> [ACTION] hggdh to ping mathiaz for access to the UEC test rig
[14:11] <MootBot> ACTION received:  hggdh to ping mathiaz for access to the UEC test rig
[14:11] <ttx> hggdh: anything else to report ?
[14:12] <hggdh> the automated ISO testing Soren was working on is starting to take shape for me
[14:12] <ttx> hggdh: good.
[14:12] <hggdh> apart for that, no, nothing new on the western front
[14:12] <ttx> Anyone with questions for QA ?
[14:12] <zul> nyet
[14:13] <ttx> mathiaz !
[14:13]  * mathiaz waves :)
[14:13] <ttx> mathiaz: <ttx> [ACTION] hggdh to ping mathiaz for access to the UEC test rig
[14:13] <ttx> (fyi)
 ideally, hggdh should be able to run the post-A3, pre-beta1 tests
[14:14] <ttx> mathiaz: questions on that ?
[14:14] <mathiaz> ttx: nope
[14:14] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[14:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[14:14] <mathiaz> ttx: on my TODO list
[14:14] <ttx> hggdh: thanks
[14:14] <ttx> jjohansen1: hi
[14:14] <jjohansen1> hi
[14:14] <jjohansen1> we have bug 527208 outstanding
[14:14] <jjohansen1> hope to fix that this week
[14:15] <jjohansen1> it doesn't look like we are getting a pv-ops kernel for EC2
[14:15] <mathiaz> jjohansen1: I've sent a request for creating vlan modules
[14:15] <mathiaz> jjohansen1: for d-i
[14:15] <jjohansen1> mathiaz: oh, I had missed that
[14:15] <mathiaz> jjohansen1: is there a chance that it will make it time for lucid?
[14:15] <zul> jjohansen1: is that with a pv-ops kernel?
[14:16] <jjohansen1> mathiaz: yeah, that should be possible
[14:16] <jjohansen1> zul?
[14:16] <mathiaz> jjohansen1: bug 530459
[14:16] <zul> jjohansen1: the c1.xlarge bug
[14:16] <jjohansen1> zul: no that is with the xen kernel
[14:16] <zul> jjohansen1: oh suck..
[14:16] <jjohansen1> yeah
[14:17] <jjohansen1> mathiaz: thanks
[14:17] <ttx> Anything else for kernel ?
[14:17] <jjohansen1> I think that is it
[14:17] <mathiaz> jjohansen1: I've sent a patch request on kerne-team@
[14:17] <mathiaz> jjohansen1: I don't know if my message has been approved
[14:17] <jjohansen1> mathiaz: okay
[14:18] <ttx> [TOPIC] Server Papercuts (ttx)
[14:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Server Papercuts (ttx)
[14:18] <ttx> So I identified 14 targets for beta1, see https://launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+milestone/lucid-beta-1
[14:19] <ttx> with a few already fixed, that leaves 10 papercuts to fix before Beta1Freeze
[14:19] <ttx> That also leaves room for extra papercuts on the beta2 cycle
[14:19] <ttx> so please continue to nominate them
[14:19] <ttx> Please have a look at the beta1 targets and assign yourselves the one you can/want fix
[14:20] <ttx> I'l ltry to get ivoks assigned to the bacula ones, since he has fixes in his PPA ready apparently
[14:20] <ttx> the rest is free game
[14:20] <ttx> Questions on that ?
[14:21] <ttx> Only one bug in todays nomination review: https://bugs.launchpad.net/server-papercuts/+bugs?search=Search&field.status=New
[14:21] <ttx> bug 211915
[14:21] <ScottK> ttx: There are a couple of amavisd-new bugs.  I'll be glad to give people advice on them.
[14:21] <ttx> ScottK: noted, thanks for your help !
[14:21] <ScottK> I don't have a time to really work on them though.
[14:22] <ttx> I discussed bug 211915 with sommer, and he agrees it's a papercut and should be assigned to him
[14:22] <ttx> So I'll accept it on those grounds, for beta2
[14:22] <ttx> (a doc papercut)
[14:22] <ttx> Questions on papercuts ?
[14:23] <ttx> I migth bother you during the week to get all those assigned to someone :)
[14:23] <ttx> [TOPIC] Bugzapping (kirkland)
[14:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Bugzapping (kirkland)
[14:23] <ttx> kirkland: could you give us a quick update ?
[14:24] <kirkland> ttx: sure
[14:25] <kirkland> ttx: spent a lot of time on Monday triaging kvm, and a bit of time with upstream yesterday
[14:25] <kirkland> ttx: actually, Lucid's kvm package is in *really* good shape
[14:25] <ttx> kirkland: good to hear :)
[14:25] <kirkland> ttx: there's a few packaging bugs, and one or two upstream bugs that i think we can fix this week
[14:25] <kirkland> ttx: other than that, it's really smoking
[14:25] <kirkland> ttx: i don't think i'm going to get around to libvirt, unfortunately
[14:26] <kirkland> ttx: where there's a *lot* more open bugs
[14:26] <kirkland> ttx: just not enough time
[14:26] <kirkland> ttx: perhaps should tackle libvirt another week
[14:26] <kirkland> ttx: besides that, i have a eucalyptus week planned
[14:26] <kirkland> ttx: and outside of those 2-3 weeks, i'm going to need someone else (canonical or community) to step up and help out
[14:27] <ttx> kirkland: should other bugzapping sessions be more loosely organized, to lower the barrier of entry ? i.e. not necessarily be a full week ?
[14:27] <ttx> I mean, I can commit to a couple of days on a given package and try to gather momentum around it
[14:27] <ttx> but not a full week
[14:27] <ttx> would that be acceptable ?
[14:28] <kirkland> ttx: honestly, i think the process is well designed for function/effect as is;  perhaps impractical though with the limited resources willing/able to contribute
[14:28] <mathiaz> ttx: 3 days instead of a full week seems like a good option for lucid
[14:28] <mathiaz> 1 day of bug triaging and 2 days of bug fixing
[14:28] <kirkland> ttx: agreed, 2-3 days at least (per week) would be better than nothing
[14:28] <kirkland> ttx: less than 2 days and I don't think we're actually doing anything different than normal bug triage
[14:28] <ttx> kirkland: yes, should be >=2 days
[14:29] <ttx> and >= 2 people :)
[14:29] <kirkland> ttx: right, in that case, i think we can improve some packages and our bug list targets of opportunity
[14:29] <ttx> kirkland: is there a wikipage where we can schedule future efforts ?
[14:30] <kirkland> ttx: yes, the spec
[14:30] <ttx> kirkland: shorter slots actually allow to target a single package rather than trying to group them
[14:30] <kirkland> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/server-lucid-bug-zapping and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerLucidBugZapping
[14:30] <kirkland> ttx: agreed
[14:30] <kirkland> ttx: let me say one more thing ...
[14:30] <kirkland> ttx: to our community ;-)
[14:31] <ScottK> It'd be nice if someone would figure out why suddenly tons of people who have no idea how to configure postfix are installing it.
[14:31] <ScottK> It seems tied to the Google Chrome packages somehow.
[14:31] <kirkland> community: many of you work at places that use Ubuntu servers for production reasons, probably 8.04 LTS, and hopefully one day 10.04 ....
[14:31] <ScottK> That's generating lots of noise in the bug tracker.
[14:32] <kirkland> community: consider asking your boss/work for 2-3 days to focus on Ubuntu XYZ package where XYZ is the key package that your company/business/IT-staff needs working better in Ubuntu
[14:32] <kirkland> ttx: </end message>
[14:32] <ttx> kirkland: amen
[14:32] <ttx> Any questions on bugzapping
[14:32] <ttx> ?
[14:32] <mathiaz> ScottK: yeah - seems related to google chrome beta packages
[14:33] <ScottK> It'd be nice to get that cleared up so we can focus on any real bugs that might be there.
[14:33] <ttx> [TOPIC] Update on Daily Bug triager: New,Undecided bugs (mathiaz)
[14:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Update on Daily Bug triager: New,Undecided bugs (mathiaz)
[14:33] <ttx> mathiaz: o/
[14:33] <mathiaz> I've update the daily query to be live
[14:34] <ttx> mathiaz: link?
[14:34] <mathiaz> and I just wanted to remind every one to spend triaging all bugs on the list once a day
[14:34] <ttx> mathiaz: as opposed to the bugs opened the day before ?
[14:34] <kirkland> mathiaz: can you remind us of the link?
[14:34] <mathiaz> ttx: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#triager
[14:35] <mathiaz> ttx: yes - basically there aren't so many bugs
[14:35] <mathiaz> so yes - focus on getting the list to zero any time of the day
[14:35] <ttx> mathiaz: if everyone triages, yes
[14:35] <mathiaz> that should cover all days opened the day before plus a few others
[14:36] <ttx> mathiaz: ok
[14:36] <mathiaz> there is a bit of backlog  - yesterday there were ten bugs left
[14:36] <ttx> I just completed the ones opened yesterday
[14:36] <ttx> but there was some backlog I didn't get at
[14:37] <mathiaz> basically now there query is a live one
[14:37] <mathiaz> so no stale data
[14:37] <ttx> mathiaz: is it the one under "new bug" on the link you provided ?
[14:37] <mathiaz> OTOH you some of the bugs opened the day
[14:37] <mathiaz> ttx: yes
[14:38] <ttx> ok, it's not the list I've been using today
[14:38] <ttx> that list doesn't have the "date opened" column
[14:38] <mathiaz> ttx: right - the previous list that were generated an daily basis
[14:38] <mathiaz> ttx: right - the query is from LP
[14:39] <mathiaz> ttx: the other page was a custom generated one, which means stale data
[14:39] <ttx> mathiaz: ok
[14:39] <mathiaz> ttx: the bugs on the new list are actually sorted by oldest to newest
[14:39] <mathiaz> ttx: so start at the top and process one bug after the other
[14:39] <mathiaz> if you notice that one of the bugs has been opened today, you can stop
[14:40] <mathiaz> other wise you can just triage all of the remaining 4/5 bugs
[14:40] <ttx> that leans the burden of clearing the backlog is onto the one that follows the slacker (or the absent guy)
[14:40] <ttx> means
[14:40] <mathiaz> IMO there aren't so many bugs and the most important thing is to set the importance
[14:40] <ttx> mathiaz: that doesn't seem... right
[14:41] <mathiaz> ttx: yeah - well - we're a team... we should work together
[14:41]  * hggdh blushes, and begs pardon
[14:41] <mathiaz> ttx: TBH there aren't so many bugs once the backlog is cleared
[14:41] <mathiaz> ttx: so I don't think it will be huge concern
[14:42] <ttx> mathiaz: ok, let's test that
[14:42]  * kirkland agrees with mathiaz 
[14:42] <mathiaz> ttx: if the number of bugs rises we can revisit the process
[14:42] <mathiaz> that's all I had to say
[14:42] <ttx> ok, other question son that process ?
[14:43] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
[14:43] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
[14:43] <ttx> mathiaz: hi again
[14:43] <mathiaz> just make sure you have a look a the bug list on your respective day :)
[14:43] <mathiaz> ttx: oh hi!
[14:44]  * mathiaz opens the lists to check the accurancy of them
[14:44] <mathiaz> the intrepid bug lists has bunch of nominations
[14:45] <mathiaz> I think we can decline all of them, given that intrepid will be EOL soon and there aren't high priority bugs in there
[14:45] <ttx> yes
[14:45] <mathiaz> same goes for the jaunty list
[14:45] <mathiaz> for karmic there is bug 276606
[14:47] <ttx> mathiaz: that's only on -> karmic upgrades ?
[14:47] <mathiaz> ttx: apparently
[14:47] <mathiaz> ttx: I'd suggest to decline as well
[14:47] <ttx> yes, looks like the bulk of people would already be affected by it
[14:47] <mathiaz> any bugs worth accepting on the karmic nomination list?
[14:48] <mathiaz> (the links for each list is on the Knowledge base wiki page)
[14:48] <ttx> mathiaz: nothing from me
[14:48] <mathiaz> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20resources
[14:48] <mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[14:48] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[14:48] <ttx> nothing stands out as High Impact
[14:48] <mathiaz> anythins worth SRU for bugs fixed last week^^?
[14:49] <mathiaz> zul: bug 515740?
[14:49] <ttx> bug 521085, but it's already accepted
[14:50] <mathiaz> that's all for SRU worth bugs
[14:50] <mathiaz> from me
[14:50] <zul> mathiaz: yeah
[14:50] <mathiaz> anything else to add?
[14:50] <zul> mathiaz: i agreee that should be added
[14:51] <mathiaz> zul: bug nominated/accepted in karmic
[14:51] <ttx> OK, anything else on the SRU side ?
[14:51] <mathiaz> zul: hm well - should this be for hardy instead?
[14:51] <zul> mathiaz: for hardy definently
[14:52] <mathiaz> that's all for the sRU review
[14:52] <ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[14:52] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[14:52] <ttx> Anything, anyone ?
[14:52] <Daviey> As part of the ArchiveReorg that is being phased in, should we think about requesting ubuntu-server upload privileges?
[14:53] <Daviey> (i intended to add this to the agenda, but didn't)
[14:53] <jmdault> Asterisk again
[14:53] <ttx> Daviey: that sounds like a laudable goal, yes
[14:53] <jmdault> There has been two security updates since
[14:54] <ttx> jmdault: planning an update ?
[14:54] <mathiaz> Daviey: IIRC there is already a set of packages available for ubuntu-server
[14:54] <Daviey> mathiaz: hmm, are you sure?
[14:54] <mathiaz> Daviey: well - there is a server something defined somewhere
[14:54] <jmdault> ttx: yes. testing at the moment
[14:55] <ttx> jmdault: is it just security fixes or part of a more featureful update ?
[14:55] <mathiaz> Daviey: the reason why we haven't looked at upload privileges for a specific ubuntu-server-* team is that most of the candidates were already core-dev
[14:55] <jmdault> ttx just fixes.
[14:55] <ttx> jmdault: ok, cool
[14:55] <Daviey> ttx: the releases that are being tracked are only security or bug fixes, no new features.
[14:56] <mathiaz> Daviey: in the long term there should be a specific -server-* team with upload priviliges
[14:56] <Daviey> mathiaz: yeah, but it doesn't fit the new world order :)
[14:57] <mathiaz> Daviey: right - there will a time where we'll have to come up with an -server-* team that has upload privileges
[14:57] <mathiaz> Daviey: for now there isn't a pressing need for it AFAICT
[14:57] <ttx> it's true we don't sponsor so many packages
[14:58] <mathiaz> Daviey: I can sync up with cjwatson and report back for the next meeting
[14:58] <Daviey> mathiaz: sounds good..
[14:58] <ttx> Daviey: could you add it to next week agenda ?
[14:58] <Daviey> i'm not saying the time is now that it is required, but certainly something that should be considered
[14:58] <mathiaz> Daviey: I'm sure we'll hear from the spec in due time
[14:58] <Daviey> cjwatson would be a good person to seek advice :)
[14:58] <Daviey> ttx: will do
[14:58] <ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to sync up with cjwatson re: ubuntu-server upload team
[14:58] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to sync up with cjwatson re: ubuntu-server upload team
[14:58] <mathiaz> Daviey: agreed - I've already had a a look at the set of packages in the server package set and they look sensible
[14:59] <Daviey> it's just the seed, isn'tit?
[14:59] <Daviey> anyway, /me defers.
[14:59] <ttx> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
[14:59] <MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
[15:00] <ttx> Next week, same time, same place
[15:00] <ttx> #endmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:00.
[15:00] <ScottK> mathiaz: In kubuntu-dev we started with all core-dev too, but almost immediately added people who weren't.
[15:00] <ScottK> (back on the last topic_
[15:00] <ScottK> I think it'd be similar for Server.
[15:00]  * ScottK looks for ivoks.
[15:00] <Daviey> ScottK: he's behind you :)
[15:01] <mathiaz> ScottK: right ivos would be a very good candidate (and the only one AFAICT)
[15:01] <ScottK> So the fact that most people you'd start with are already core is not a reason not to make the team.
[15:01] <mathiaz> ScottK: *ivoks*
[15:02] <ScottK> I'm reasonably certain it's a feature to start with a team that doens't let anyone new upload stuff.  It's a good point of departure.
[15:02] <ScottK> Then you can approve people.
[15:05] <zul> *cough* smoser *cough* so I dont have to upload cloud-init for him
[16:00] <cjwatson> good afternoon
[16:00] <slangasek> morning
[16:00] <ev> hiya
[16:01]  * mvo waves
[16:01] <tremolux> o/
[16:01] <barry> howdy
[16:02] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[16:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:02. The chair is slangasek.
[16:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:02] <slangasek> Keybuk, james_w, lool: here?
[16:02] <james_w> hey hey
[16:03] <slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0303
[16:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0303
[16:03] <slangasek> hello :)
[16:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[16:03] <Keybuk> oh, that was weird
[16:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning round
[16:03] <Keybuk> couldn't type
[16:04] <slangasek> order is: Keybuk tremolux ev mvo james_w slangasek cjwatson barry lool
[16:04] <Keybuk> Battling with the kernel VT layer, Plymouth has swapped sides at least twice but I think it's on our side now and we're winning.
[16:05] <Keybuk> It's truly amazing the number of invalid states you can put the kernel in
[16:05] <Keybuk> --
[16:05] <tremolux> Back/forward navigation history feature for Software Center is landed, woo!
[16:05] <tremolux> Refactored PPAs/channel view code, it's cleaner and much easier to use.
[16:05] <tremolux> Added partner channel support in channel views.
[16:05] <tremolux> Fixed lots of bugs this week, emphasis on bugfixes needed before UI freeze.
[16:05] <tremolux> (done)
[16:05] <ev> fixing language page when in oem-config mode, moving intro page contents into the language page (and making translatable), fixing a bug in usb-creator thats breaking bootloader installation, hunting down a bug in the slideshow/webkit (hitting a security check in the latest webkit), removing the partition page progress dialogs per discussion in 336751, adding a progress message for wiping swap in the installer when using encrypted home
[16:05] <ev> blocked on legal for the restricted-extras page.
[16:05] <ev> (done)
[16:06] <mvo> worked on software-center (plus django rnr-server), update-manager and upgrade testing, some a3 data updates (like command-not-found, app-install-data)
[16:06] <mvo> (done)
[16:06] <james_w> Tackling bzr-builddeb and import failures, and working with LP on building from branches directly. Going to be working on getting all my code in Ubuntu ready for release.
[16:06] <james_w> (done)
[16:07] <slangasek> following through on the team merge for ubuntu-release and motu-release this week
[16:08] <slangasek> opportunistically converting the Debian Samba team to be bzr fans
[16:08] <barry> \o/
[16:08] <slangasek> working on getting casper to talk to plymouth
[16:08] <slangasek> (done)
[16:08] <cjwatson> done: landed rest of foundations-lucid-gfxboot-update; landed parted 2.1; playing with 3.0 (quilt) source format, mostly liking it; made grub-probe filesystem queries about 10 times faster
[16:08] <cjwatson> blocked: nothing
[16:08] <cjwatson> todo: take advantage of parted 2.1 to set up proper partition alignment; get back to beating on the kernel for console-setup/upstart
[16:08] <cjwatson> (done)
[16:09] <barry> Returned from Pycon on Friday.  Worked on Ratings and Reviews server; soon to
[16:09] <barry> have another branch for merging.  Completed second and third drafts of PEP
[16:09] <barry> 3147 (PYC Repository Directories); probably ready for BDFL pronouncement and
[16:09] <barry> implementation.  Released Python 2.6.5rc1.  Not blocked.  EOT.
[16:09] <mvo> rnr \o/
[16:09] <Keybuk> cjwatson: in the process of reading about how the VT layer works, I have learned some things about console and fonts
[16:10]  * mvo hugs tremolux for back-forward
[16:10] <tremolux> mvo: :)
[16:11] <cjwatson> Keybuk: http://paste.ubuntu.com/387692/ is my current probably broken WIP
[16:12] <Keybuk> cjwatson: that seems sane
[16:12] <Keybuk> cjwatson: will it matter whether the VT is in VT_AUTO or VT_PROCESS ?
[16:13] <cjwatson> Keybuk: (er, sorry, should have continued your conversation in #u-d)
[16:14] <slangasek> ok, moving on then? :)
[16:14] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
[16:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
[16:14] <slangasek> I couldn't find any in the logs; correct me if I'm wrong?
[16:15] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
[16:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
[16:16] <slangasek> anything else in the hopper that's going to need freeze exceptions?
[16:16] <mvo> I will add one for the new python-apt and for ratings&reviews
[16:16] <ev> (lool just swung by my desk to mention that he's on his way to another meeting, and cannot attend this one)
[16:16]  * mvo will write them after the meeting
[16:16] <slangasek> ev: ack, thanks
[16:16] <slangasek> mvo: ok
[16:17] <cjwatson> both of my freeze exceptions from last week are done
[16:18] <cjwatson> I actually want to upgrade to parted 2.2, but I think that's essentially a bug-fix release - the only "new feature" in NEWS is more appropriately classified as a bug fix IMO :-)
[16:18] <slangasek> heh :)
[16:18] <cjwatson> (sane default alignment instead of NULL when disk topology info is incomplete)
[16:18] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
[16:18] <slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21446
[16:18] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=21446
[16:19] <slangasek> not sure if that's changed much since last week
[16:19] <slangasek> still a number of good, familiar bugs there
[16:19] <slangasek> oh, and the Kashmir issue :/
[16:19]  * mvo fixed some!
[16:19] <slangasek> yay!
[16:19] <ev> yeah, anyone in here able to admin the platform list?
[16:19] <cjwatson> I think all the high-priority foundations ones are on somebody's plate.  I'm less sure about <high
[16:19] <cjwatson> ev: me
[16:19] <ev> for some reason it put me in the moderation queue
[16:20]  * cjwatson pokes listadmin
[16:20] <cjwatson> fetching data for ubuntu-platform@lists.canonical.com ... nothing in queue
[16:20] <ev> interesting
[16:20] <slangasek> ev: I have at least one mail from you on that list about Kashmir
[16:21] <ev> oh, cool
[16:21] <ev> that's what I was thinking was stuck
[16:21] <cjwatson> ev: are you still on the "wiping swap space" thing?
[16:22] <ev> that I am
[16:22] <ev> I'll have that sorted tonight
[16:22] <cjwatson> cool
[16:23] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Targeted bugs
[16:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Targeted bugs
[16:23] <slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs
[16:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs
[16:23] <slangasek> more good bugs there
[16:24] <slangasek> any that anyone wants to talk about?
[16:25] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Sponsorship queue
[16:25] <MootBot> New Topic:  Sponsorship queue
[16:25] <cjwatson> bug 530071 came up today; there's a decent chance I'll be getting hardware suitable for testing it
[16:26] <cjwatson> it's just a continuation of the parted work already in progress though
[16:27] <cjwatson> the only sponsorship work I've done this week so far has been to bounce a patch that needed work
[16:27] <cjwatson> though I didn't see that bug 425650 was in the sponsorship queue - that will be resolved differently in the next upload
[16:27] <slangasek> there's a nice discussion about sponsorship process on ubuntu-devel right now; perhaps people who have a hard time keeping up on sponsorship (myself included) have some ideas to contribute there on how to make it better
[16:28] <slangasek> speaking of hardware, does anyone on the team have hardware that works with sl-modem?
[16:29] <slangasek> we got a bug assigned to us about the package being broken, I wondered with Brian whether this package even belongs in restricted if we can't support it
[16:29] <mvo> slangasek: I *think* my old x30 may work with sl-modem
[16:29] <Keybuk> all I need to do to have time to do sponsorship is have about 35% less work assigned to me for a cycle <g>
[16:29] <barry> slangasek: what's sl-mode?
[16:29] <barry> er, sl-modem
[16:29] <slangasek> barry: driver for supporting certain screwball modems
[16:29] <mvo> but I don't have to upgrade that to lucid to test
[16:30] <barry> no screwball modems here!
[16:30] <slangasek> there's even an FFe for a new upstream version of sl-modem, but it's incomplete :/
[16:32] <slangasek> anyway, I've asked Brian to try to figure out how prevalent the hardware is in the hwdb, to see whether we should muster more resources or maybe boot the package from restricted instead
[16:33] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Any business from activity reports
[16:33] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any business from activity reports
[16:34] <slangasek> nobody sent in any agenda items; any last-minute thoughts?
[16:35] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Good news!
[16:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good news!
[16:35] <mvo> rnr-server almost ready!
[16:36] <ev> we've nearly sorted moving the greeter functionality into ubiquity
[16:36] <barry> mvo: any word on deployment from IS?
[16:36] <mvo> barry: yes, they want to do a code review first
[16:36] <barry> mvo: that's entirely reasonable :)
[16:37] <mvo> yeah :)
[16:37] <mvo> otherwise it did not sound like they were much concerned
[16:38] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Reminder for release meeting, if due this week
[16:38] <MootBot> New Topic:  Reminder for release meeting, if due this week
[16:38] <slangasek> I'm not entirely sure what this agenda item is supposed to mean
[16:38] <slangasek> since we have weekly release meetings :)
[16:39] <slangasek> reminder: we have weekly release meetings (?)
[16:39] <cjwatson> I don't remember, feel free to remove it from the template :)
[16:39] <slangasek> ok :)
[16:39] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[16:39] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
[16:40] <slangasek> going once...
[16:40] <slangasek> oh, we need a chair for the next meeting
[16:40] <slangasek> who's up?
[16:41] <barry> i have yet to do one
[16:41] <barry> btw, remind me what "aob" stands for :)
[16:41] <cjwatson> any other business
[16:41] <slangasek> any other bidness
[16:41] <barry> ah
[16:42]  * Daviey bids
[16:42] <slangasek> ok, so barry to chair next week
[16:42] <slangasek> thanks, barry :)
[16:42] <barry> np!
[16:42] <slangasek> anything else?
[16:43] <cjwatson> I guess I'll do the release meeting?
[16:43] <cjwatson> hard for slangasek to report to himself
[16:43] <cjwatson> well, easy, but maybe not useful
[16:43] <slangasek> yes please
[16:43] <cjwatson> righto
[16:44] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[16:44] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:44.
[16:44] <slangasek> thanks, folks
[16:44] <tremolux> thanks everyone
[16:44] <ev> thanks!
[16:44] <barry> thanks!
[16:44] <mvo> thanks
[16:45] <james_w> thanks
[17:02]  * sbeattie waves hello to everyone waiting for the QA team meeting.
[17:02]  * bdmurray waves and looks around
[17:02]  * ara waves
[17:03] <sbeattie> Due to a number of people being unavailable for today's meeting, we'd like to cancel it unless anyone has agenda items they'd like to bring up.
[17:03] <hggdh> ~o~
[17:04] <bdmurray> I had somebody contact me about joining the SRU verification team.  Is there any policy / guidelines about that?
[17:06] <sbeattie> Yes; generally I like to see some evidence that that person understands what's involved in SRU testing, preferably via examples of tested SRU bugs.
[17:07] <sbeattie> Something akin to bugcontrol's requirements, though a little less formalized.
[17:07] <bdmurray> Hmm, okay
[17:07] <bdmurray> In the future I'll send them to you then!
[17:07] <sbeattie> bdmurray: that's fine.
[17:07] <sbeattie> :-)
[17:08] <bdmurray> unless you have your list of verifiers somewhere publically available
[17:10] <sbeattie> oh, bah, looks like I missed a couple of membership requests when I was sick a couple of week ago.
[17:11] <sbeattie> Any other items?
[17:12] <sbeattie> Alright, I think we'll call it good then; please feel free to raise any items in next week's meeting or on the ubuntu-qa mailing list.
[17:12] <sbeattie> Thanks everyone!
[17:13] <ara> cheers!
[19:01] <highvoltage> o/
[19:02] <mgariepy> hi
[19:02] <mhall119|work> o/
[19:03] <highvoltage> let me see if I can find sbalneav...
[19:03] <highvoltage> I believe stgraber is just finishing off another meeting currently
[19:03] <stgraber> almost there
[19:03] <alkisg> o/
[19:05] <highvoltage> fader_: thanks for testing our iso images last week!
[19:06] <fader_> highvoltage: No worries :)
[19:07] <stgraber> ok, I'm here now :)
[19:07] <highvoltage> our agenda for this week isn't very big or specific: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
[19:08] <highvoltage> stgraber fixed my bug with the icon theme, it didn't work because there was some whitespace at the end of the line that shouldn't have been there
[19:08] <stgraber> one thing to be careful about is the UI freeze tomorrow so if we are still missing some icon themes from the CD, please give me the names and I'll get them there ASAP
[19:09] <stgraber> same for the backgrounds and gdm, we should have these in very soon
[19:09] <stgraber> there's also a big change coming, unfortunately I don't have the right to mention it yet
[19:09] <highvoltage> stgraber: ouch. would that be at the end of tomorrow?
[19:09] <stgraber> highvoltage: yep
[19:11] <highvoltage> stgraber: while the uii freeze is important and evertyhign, I'm currently a bit more worried about the ltsp installation/livecd. Is there something I could do to get our squashfs image in? Am I justified in pesting lamont or is theere something that still needs to be done from our side?
[19:11] <stgraber> so, as I was saying, something is coming that will likely impact our artwork a bit, I'll speak about it in #edubuntu as soon as it's made public. That means we'll quite easily get exceptions when there'll be need for some.
[19:13] <lamont> [if there is something I'll need to pick up, like BuildLiveCD enhancements, a ticket into RT would be ideal)
[19:13] <stgraber> highvoltage: the change is currently on my laptop, I'm happy to send you the diff so you can poke lamont about it as well. I can technically push it though I'd need to have it reviewed first and haven't had the time to speak with him about that yet.
[19:13] <stgraber> lamont: hey !
[19:13] <lamont> totally not here. :-p
[19:13] <highvoltage> stgraber: ok, perhaps we can give that to lamont in an rt ticket and he can give comments/feedback there?
[19:13] <stgraber> lamont: yeah, it'll just be a review of a change to BuildLiveCD and if it's fine I'll push it to the branch (it's in ~ubuntu-core-dev) and see what needs to be done to get it on the build servers
[19:14] <stgraber> highvoltage: well, that's assuming you can actually follow a ticket on rt.ubuntu.com ... everyone having the same account there, I try not to use it as a way to discuss changes but rather as a way to ask for some changes to be picked up
[19:15] <highvoltage> lamont: can we use a bug in LP instead?
[19:15] <lamont> highvoltage: sure
[19:15] <lamont> and assign it to me
[19:15] <highvoltage> lamont: thanks!
[19:15] <lamont> and yeah, rt.u.c would be less preferred than an LP bug
[19:16] <stgraber> lamont: great, I'll try to have a bug opened today. What project should I file that against ?
[19:16] <lamont> livecd-rootfs is the package, yes?
[19:16] <lamont> bug in the package, assign it to me (and I'll open a ticket for dealing with scheduling my time to get it done, etc)
[19:17] <stgraber> might be :) I'll have a look. thanks
[19:17] <lamont> though hopefully it's not assigned to me until it's blocked by me
[19:18] <lamont> (I already know it's coming, so I don't need a "hey we're going to file another bug in 2 weeks and need you to do this then" kind of bug..)
[19:19] <highvoltage> I believe stgraber would have been quite thorrow and there will probably only be minor changes, if any that might need be done
[19:20] <stgraber> yeah, anyway, let's continue our meeting :)
[19:20] <stgraber> how are we doing with the actual LTSP live script ?
[19:22] <highvoltage> I lost my original one, but once I have the squashfs image I think it shouldn't take long to get it working reasonably well, I was wondering this afternoon whether I should just get the squashfs image via something like sshfs and a symlink for now just so that I can get it working so long
[19:23] <stgraber> yeah, that or an usb key
[19:24] <alkisg> Is dhcp3-server going to be used? I do think that dnsmasq (=proxydhcp) is better suited for a live cd...
[19:24] <alkisg> (already there in the live cd also)
[19:25] <highvoltage> I think the liveCD part is going to be simpler compared to the ubiquity hooks, I've added scripts to ubiquity before for making changes to the target system at the end of installation, so I think having a window pop up over the ubiquity window that just asks "[ ] Install LTSP, [ ] Install Netbook Launcher" and then it wouldl install and configure it in the target system based on the user input would be fine
[19:26] <highvoltage> alkisg: dnsmasq is great, but the server security doesn't seem to like it, seems that its security fixes (especially with the high profile dns security issues we saw last year) was fixed in dnsmasq way later than the other servers
[19:27] <alkisg> highvoltage: it's *included* on the live cd since jaunty
[19:27] <highvoltage> alkisg: I think it's a bit late in the cycle to make a bit of a sensitive change like that in this cycle
[19:27] <alkisg> (or possibly eariler)
[19:27] <alkisg> So it'll even save you from installing dhcp3-server
[19:27] <highvoltage> alkisg: oh wow! I didn't realise that. perhaps we can do that then
[19:27] <highvoltage> yes and it would be less services to start on a live medium
[19:27] <alkisg> The most important part is, not requiring the user to turn off his own dhcp server
[19:28] <alkisg> And it works fine with either 1 or 2 nics...
[19:30] <highvoltage> alkisg: I assume you'll be willing to test and provide some feedback? ;)
[19:30] <alkisg> highvoltage: sure - I even have an existing live cd implementation with ubuntu/ltsp 9.10
[19:30] <highvoltage> alkisg: *nod*
[19:31] <stgraber> yeah, I'm now allowed to mention it in public ! :)
[19:32] <stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand
[19:32] <alkisg> Whooohooo... nice themes
[19:33] <stgraber> so basically, the themes will change, Ubuntu's logo will change, so will Canonical's
[19:33] <highvoltage> I hoppe that's not the real metacity button locations :)
[19:33] <stgraber> and we now have two guys at Canonical working on doing the new Edubuntu logo based on that
[19:33] <highvoltage> well I guess the designers wanted to make it more apple-like
[19:34] <stgraber> highvoltage: the themes I saw in London had the buttons on the other side
[19:34] <alkisg> Ouch that will take some time to get used to...
[19:35] <highvoltage> anything else for technical?
[19:35] <stgraber> "other side" as in "right side" :)
[19:35] <highvoltage> got that :)
[19:36] <stgraber> so, for edubuntu it will likely mean that we'll (unless there's a strong oposition) need to update the website colors, we'll get the new logo using the same font and style as Ubuntu from the designers at Canonical
[19:36] <stgraber> and we'll probably want to use that for our splash and GDM
[19:36] <stgraber> as for the gnome themes, I'd like to have the same as Ubuntu being at least provided on the DVD but with variants for our icon themes assuming it won't be horrible :)
[19:37] <highvoltage> *nod*
[19:37] <sbalneav> Here
[19:37] <highvoltage> welcome sbalneav
[19:37] <stgraber> sbalneav: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand
[19:38] <stgraber> sbalneav: I'll pastebin some log for you, hang on a sec
[19:38]  * highvoltage waits in anticipation to hear sbalneav's comments
[19:38] <stgraber> sbalneav: http://pastebin.com/YP7pRCag
[19:40] <sbalneav> oi
[19:40] <sbalneav> great, new theme.
[19:40]  * sbalneav rictus grin
[19:40] <sbalneav> I'm overjoyed
[19:41] <alkisg> And compiz is now mandatory :D
[19:41] <highvoltage> sbalneav: how do you feel about another bug day? should we announce it and allocate specific time for it or do you think it's something we should do more informally and do at a regular interval like, the last thursday of the month or something like that? (sorry if that doesn't make sense I had to take some strong pain pills earlier)
[19:41] <highvoltage> sbalneav: yeah brown is history :)
[19:41] <sbalneav> Just when I was beginning to get used to it.
[19:42] <sbalneav> I think making "bug day" a nice "once a month" thing would be great, other than the fact if it's going to be regular, I'm not *always* going to be able to take the day off work to do it.
[19:43]  * sbalneav sobs uncontrollably at alkisg 
[19:43] <alkisg> sbalneav: don't worry I heard they still support that... what was it's name? ah yeah, "console" :D
[19:43] <sbalneav> doesn't look like the logos changing does it?
[19:44] <Lns> hi all =) sorry for being way too late..had a client appt run too long
[19:44] <sbalneav> alkisg: unlike a lot of people today, "invoke-rc.d gdm stop" wouldn't slow me down too much :)
[19:44] <alkisg> ;)
[19:45] <highvoltage> sbalneav: it will need to be adapted somewhat, but the basic logos seem to stay the same
[19:45] <stgraber> Lns: http://pastebin.com/YP7pRCag
[19:46] <Lns> thx stgraber
[19:47] <highvoltage> ~13 minutes left. anything else?
[19:48] <highvoltage> I'll talk to Hedgemadge regarding the web theme
[19:48] <stgraber> highvoltage: great, thanks
[19:49] <highvoltage> I talked to heer a bit earlier today and she hadn't had time to do the final touches, I told her that that's probably better since we're expecting some changes but that I couldn't give her more info just yet
[19:49] <dutchie> highvoltage: jono just blogged big changes
[19:49] <highvoltage> I don't expect any big problems with the website, at least we're not bound by any freezes, it should be ready in plenty of time for 10.04, we should probably schedule a day for updates and things to the site once hedgemadge's version is up
[19:50] <dutchie> you probably can mention them if that's what you're talking about
[19:50] <highvoltage> dutchie: indeed, I'm aware of that
[19:50] <dutchie> (not having read backscroll at all)
[19:50] <jono> dutchie, cool :)
[19:50] <highvoltage> dutchie: yes we can mention it now, couldn't do it earlier today though
[19:51] <highvoltage> stgraber: I think that if the website is good soon, we have ltsp live and installer, and artwork sorted out we'll be pretty good for 10.04? or am I leaving something big out?
[19:52] <stgraber> highvoltage: that's correct. We may want to spend a few hours to get a zenity script done to trigger post-install to install LTSP and/or the netbook interface.
[19:52] <highvoltage> jono: I'm sure your blog is going to be hit *very* hard with that post :)
[19:52] <stgraber> but yeah, otherwise it's all good for 10.04
[19:53] <highvoltage> ok, seems like that's a wrap, let's take it to #edubuntu
[19:53] <highvoltage> thanks everyone