/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/03/04/#launchpad-meeting.txt

=== daniloff is now known as danilos
=== mrevell is now known as mrevell-lunch
=== EdwinGrubbs is now known as Edwin-afk
=== salgado is now known as salgado-lunch
matsubara#startmeeting16:00
MootBotMeeting started at 10:00. The chair is matsubara.16:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]16:00
matsubaraWelcome to this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. For the next 45 minutes or so, we'll be coordinating the resolution of specific Launchpad bugs and issues.16:00
matsubara[TOPIC] Roll Call16:00
MootBotNew Topic:  Roll Call16:00
allenapme16:00
mrjazzcatme16:00
matsubaraNot on the Launchpad Dev team? Welcome! Come "me" with the rest of us!16:00
matsubaraChex, rockstar, bigjools, sinzui, danilos: hi16:00
matsubaraUrsinha, hi16:00
rockstarme16:00
bigjoolshello16:01
Ursinhame16:01
Ursinhahi16:01
daniloshi16:01
matsubaraapologies from Gary, he's in a meeting and I'll be the foundations contact for today16:01
Chexme16:01
matsubaraok, everyone is here16:01
matsubara[TOPIC] Agenda16:01
MootBotNew Topic:  Agenda16:01
matsubara * Actions from last meeting16:01
matsubara * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts16:01
matsubara * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)16:01
matsubara * DBA report (stub)16:01
matsubara * Proposed items16:01
matsubara[TOPIC] * Actions from last meeting16:01
MootBotNew Topic:  * Actions from last meeting16:01
matsubara    * rockstar to investigate failure on update_branches script and reply to the email.16:02
matsubarano new failures since last week, so I guess it sorted out by itself16:02
* rockstar nods16:02
matsubara[TOPIC] * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts16:03
MootBotNew Topic:  * Oops report & Critical Bugs & Broken scripts16:03
sinzuime16:03
Ursinhait's me16:03
Ursinhaso16:03
* sinzui did not see the rollcall16:03
Ursinhathree issues to point16:03
Ursinhamatsubara: bug 403281 seems an old bug, and I saw a bunch of oopses yesterday caused by this problem, could you set the importance, please?16:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 403281 in launchpad-foundations "public xmlrpc requests broken during read only period" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40328116:04
Ursinhamatsubara: also, I've filed bug 531695, but not sure if that's foundations16:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531695 in libgraph-perl "libgraph-perl v0.81 is not compatible with libheap-perl v0.80" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53169516:04
Ursinhait seems a rollout issue16:04
Ursinhahmm, that's not right16:04
matsubarahmm16:04
matsubarahehe16:04
Ursinhabug 53196516:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531965 in launchpad-foundations "During the rollout, database changes caused old code to oops" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53196516:04
Ursinhaoops :)16:04
Ursinhamatsubara: what do you say?16:05
matsubara[action] matsubara to discuss with foundations bug 403281 and set importance on it16:05
MootBotACTION received:  matsubara to discuss with foundations bug 403281 and set importance on it16:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 403281 in launchpad-foundations "public xmlrpc requests broken during read only period" [Undecided,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/40328116:05
Ursinhacool16:05
sinzuiI think bug 531965 is a soyuz issue16:05
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531965 in launchpad-foundations "During the rollout, database changes caused old code to oops" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53196516:05
Ursinhasinzui: but that isn't oopsing anymore16:06
bigjoolsno it's not a soyuz issue16:06
matsubarathere's also bug 403281 which is either Code or foundations16:06
matsubaraerrr16:06
matsubarawrong bug number16:06
Ursinhasinzui: all occurrences I could find happened during the rollout16:06
matsubaraI meant bug 53168716:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531687 in launchpad-code "Accessing a merge proposal during the rollout (ie R/O mode) oopsed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53168716:06
matsubararockstar, can you take a look and triage accordingly ^?16:06
rockstarmatsubara, sure16:07
rockstarmatsubara, is this part of the meeting really necessary?16:07
Ursinhaallenap: I see occurrences of https://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=OOPS-1524C2016, but not sure this is a known issue16:07
ubottuhttps://lp-oops.canonical.com/oops.py/?oopsid=1524C201616:07
matsubara[action] rockstar to triage bug 53168716:07
MootBotACTION received:  rockstar to triage bug 53168716:07
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531687 in launchpad-code "Accessing a merge proposal during the rollout (ie R/O mode) oopsed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53168716:07
allenapUrsinha: Looking.16:08
rockstarWe should (and do) keep up with triaging bugs.  I'm not sure that we need to bring it up in a meeting.16:08
matsubararockstar, I think this section of the meeting is the main reason for this meeting :-)16:08
Ursinharockstar: specially after rollouts16:08
matsubaramay I ask why do you think it's not important?16:08
Ursinha:)16:08
rockstarmatsubara, because you asked me to do something that someone from our team is going to do at some point today anyway.16:08
rockstarmatsubara, I think the ops report is the most helpful part of this meeting.16:09
matsubarayeah, that part is very useful as well, I agree16:09
matsubarawe bring up the OOPS that we think are important so it won't fall through the cracks16:09
rockstarmatsubara, do we need to gather everyone together to do that?16:10
Ursinharockstar: but I recall you suggesting us to file bugs for oopses before coming to the meeting, so why exactly you think the oops section is useful?16:10
rockstarUrsinha, ops wasn't a typo.  :)  Operations report16:10
allenapUrsinha: That reminds me of a known issue. I don't have a bug number for it yet. If it is the same issue then it's proven very difficult to reproduce.16:10
matsubararockstar, well, we already gather everyone together for this meeting. discussing oops issues is just one side of it, along with scripts failing and critical issues16:11
Ursinhaallenap: that reminds me of a known issue as well, but I couldn't find the bug16:11
matsubarathe meeting was evolving to the point we're today. from our experience a lot of things end up falling through the cracks if the QA team don't bring them up16:12
matsubarabut I'm all ears for suggestion to improve the format of the meeting that would be more useful to you16:12
matsubaraand by you, I mean all of you16:12
matsubara:-)16:12
matsubaranot only rockstar16:13
rockstarmatsubara, but I ask if we need a meeting to bring them up.  Can't you just bring them up as they happen?16:13
danilosrockstar, I think OOPS section is necessary until we get to a point where every team is on top of their OOPSes *without* matsubara and Ursinha16:13
matsubara+1 danilos16:13
Ursinharockstar: I think it's nice to have a main contact to express our concerns :)16:13
rockstardanilos, I agree that matsubara and Ursinha are a HUGE lifesaver.  I just wonder if it needs to be part of the meeting.16:14
UrsinhaI agree with danilos16:14
rockstarUrsinha, oh yeah, I'm happy to be the main contact for QA questions.16:14
danilosrockstar, let's discuss that at the end of the meeting; Ursinha, matsubara, anyone else interested, let's move that discussion after the regular agenda16:14
bigjoolsI quite value the input from matsubara and Ursinha for the oopses16:14
* rockstar sighs16:15
matsubaraas danilos pointed out, once the teams are taking care of OOPSes without our help, then I think this section will slowly fade away16:15
rockstarbigjools, I don't disagree with you.16:15
sinzuiI think we have a lot of unowned or shared apps that do not have team16:15
bigjoolsrockstar: I wasn't referring to anything you'd said actually16:15
rockstarbigjools, okay.  :)16:16
daniloslet's go on and come back to this topic later, pleaaseee :)16:16
sinzuiI am tempted to fix a bug in malone, launchapd-answers, and blueprints because I am tired of reading spam attacks to find my bugs, but who would know about these attacks if we were not collectively seeing all oopses16:16
matsubaraall right, so Ursinha, anything else? (did I get all the action items right, specially the ones for foundations?)16:17
Ursinhamatsubara: nothing else in the oops section16:17
matsubara[action] matsubara to discuss bug 531965 with foundations as well16:17
MootBotACTION received:  matsubara to discuss bug 531965 with foundations as well16:17
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531965 in launchpad-foundations "During the rollout, database changes caused old code to oops" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53196516:17
matsubarascripts failing: mpcreationjobs and sendbranchmail just failed16:18
Ursinhathere are two critical bugs, in progress16:18
matsubararockstar, can you take care of those and reply to the list? is this something that could be caused by the rollout?16:19
allenapUrsinha: I can't find out any more about that OOPS now, so I'll investigate later.16:20
Ursinhathanks allenap :)16:20
rockstarmatsubara, sure16:20
matsubara[action] rockstar to investigate failures on mpcreationjobs and sendbranchmail scripts16:21
MootBotACTION received:  rockstar to investigate failures on mpcreationjobs and sendbranchmail scripts16:21
Ursinhabigjools: will you need a rc to fix bug 530566?16:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 530566 in soyuz "cron.germinate still believes lpia is active" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53056616:21
bigjoolsUrsinha: I have one but thanks for reminding me to land that branch :)16:21
Ursinhabigjools: :)16:21
Ursinhamatsubara: there's bug 530354 too that seems approved as well16:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 530354 in launchpad-foundations "wadl generation is broken after multiversion code has landed" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53035416:22
rockstarmatsubara, abentley is already figuring out what's going on with those scripts.16:22
matsubarathank you rockstar16:22
Ursinhamatsubara: it says "Merged", so that is Fix Committed or even Fix Released? could you check, please?16:22
matsubaraUrsinha, if it says merged, it's fix committed. I think it's this one: # r9069 [release-critical=thumper][r=gary][ui=none] Cache a static WADL file for every version of the web service.16:23
matsubaraprobably my script that closes it didn't get to it yet :-)16:23
Ursinhamatsubara: hehe16:23
Ursinhaokay16:23
matsubaralet's move on then16:24
Ursinhathanks everyone16:24
matsubara[TOPIC] * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)16:24
MootBotNew Topic:  * Operations report (mthaddon/Chex/spm/mbarnett)16:24
matsubaraChex, the stage is yours16:24
mbarnetttake it and run!16:25
Chexhi everyone16:25
ChexHere is the LOSA report for this week:16:26
Chex- LP rollout 10.02 took 70 mins longer than scheduled. Some related bugs were:16:26
Chex        ; Need more visibility into progress of upgrade.py/fti.py/security.py bug 53183316:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531833 in launchpad-foundations "Need more visibility into the progress of upgrade.py/fti.py/security.py" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53183316:26
Chex        ; Read-only seemed to leave lots of "idle" and "select waiting" connections to the master and16:26
Chex                slave DBs which possibly blocked the DB upgrade bug 53183416:26
ubottuLaunchpad bug 531834 in launchpad-foundations "When switching to read-only mode, we're left with lots of "idle/select waiting" connections to the DBs which may be blocking the schema upgrade process" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53183416:26
Chex- LP incidents of note:16:26
Chex        ; Crowberry Out-Of-Memory error: https://pastebin.canonical.com/28737/ 2010-03-04 12:30 UTC16:26
Chex          Does anyone have any insight into this issue??16:26
Chexand thats the report. anyone have questions or comments?16:26
matsubaracrowberry is code hosting, right? rockstar ^16:27
rockstarmatsubara, I'm not sure.  I never remember the names of our boxes...16:27
matsubarathe pastebin indicates it's a code hosting machine16:28
matsubara[action] rockstar to investigate Out-Of-Memory error: https://pastebin.canonical.com/28737/ and get back to losas about it16:29
MootBotACTION received:  rockstar to investigate Out-Of-Memory error: https://pastebin.canonical.com/28737/ and get back to losas about it16:29
Chexsorry, crowberry is codehosting, yes.16:29
matsubaraok, I think we can move on then.16:30
matsubarathanks Chex16:30
Chexmatsubara: sure16:31
matsubara[TOPIC] * DBA report (stub)16:32
MootBotNew Topic:  * DBA report (stub)16:32
matsubarastub will send the report to the list. I'll remind him.16:32
matsubara[action] matsubara to remind stub about dba report16:32
allenapmatsubara: I think he sent it already.16:32
MootBotACTION received:  matsubara to remind stub about dba report16:32
matsubaraoops16:32
matsubarayes, indeed he did. thanks allenap16:32
matsubara[action] cancel last action item about dba report :-)16:32
MootBotACTION received:  cancel last action item about dba report :-)16:32
matsubara[TOPIC] * Proposed items16:33
MootBotNew Topic:  * Proposed items16:33
matsubararockstar, so would you like to discuss a better format for the oops section?16:33
matsubaraseems to me we have a agreement that the oops section is generally useful and once the teams start to take care of their oopses that section will be unecessary16:34
danilosmatsubara, we don't have agreement that it will be unnecessary :)16:34
danilosmatsubara, sinzui has raised an interesting point16:35
danilosmatsubara, there's a whole bunch of problems which don't belong in any particular team domain16:35
danilosmatsubara, and then there are also those which appear only for one or two teams, but might be global16:35
matsubararight, so we'll continue to bring up those during this meeting16:35
danilosI am hoping we'll get to a point where OOPS section will be about those16:35
matsubarayep. agreed.16:36
rockstarI think we're pretty good at saying "this doesn't look like a <app> issue.  Maybe ask <other-app-dev>"16:36
danilosand prerequisite for not reporting any OOPSes in a meeting is that both teams handle them themselves and that teams are good at bug triage16:37
rockstarIf there's a bug filed on an oops, it'll get triaged.  That should be a team's responsibility, and if the team isn't getting to it, then we need to evaluate that.16:37
rockstarCode has been going out of our way to make sure we get bugs triaged.16:37
danilosrockstar, well, we are still very far off zero OOPSes in normal circumstances16:37
Ursinhadanilos: +116:38
rockstardanilos, this is true, but that's not the issue.16:38
danilosrockstar, right, I'd say we have a pretty good situation in translations (rarely more than 10 untriaged bugs), but does it hold for all teams?16:38
danilosrockstar, how about launchpad-foundations which is our hold-all bag?16:38
rockstarIf there's an oops that Ursinha or matsubara sees, they file a bug (they are good at this).  At that point, they should assume the ball has been passed.16:38
rockstardanilos, how is launchpad-foundations the "hold-all" bag?  If they have bugs that belong to code, they're hurting foundations and code by not re-assigning them.16:39
danilosrockstar, sharing knowledge is useful; when I've seen some OOPSes related to authdb split in translations, I pinged bigjools because I suspected it might bite soyuz as well16:39
rockstardanilos, yeah, but that doesn't need to happen in the meeting.16:40
danilosrockstar, they have a gazillion bugs which are generic LP problems but not necessarily part of infrastructure, like UI features and such16:40
sinzuiOne problem that I am thinking of was caused by our switch to storm and each application has to make their own fix. This is not a foundations issue, it is an oops that should be targeted to 3 projects16:40
danilossinzui, +116:40
rockstarsinzui, exactly.16:40
daniloswhat I am saying is that we do have problems in some teams that need to be fixed before we can even consider dropping OOPS section from the meeting16:41
rockstarMake no mistake.  matsubara and Ursinha are invaluable to Launchpad.  I just don't think they need to duplicate their efforts because I can't triage bugs.16:41
matsubaradanilos, +1 on the share knowledge usefulness. that's why I think this meeting (and the oops section) is still useful. we bring everyone together and talk about those issues. ideally this would all happen in the bug tracker, but reality is that sometimes some bugs end up falling through the cracks.16:42
Ursinhamatsubara: +116:42
matsubaraand that's where Ursinha and I could help by nagging you guys endlessly :-)16:42
rockstarSo let's keep the oops section, but not bring up untriaged bugs.16:42
Ursinhayes hehe16:42
danilosrockstar, I agree, but we first need to make sure "you" are triaging your bugs; care to do the evaluation of all LP subprojects and come back with data that either confirms or rejects my feeling of what it is?16:42
rockstardanilos, should QA have to babysit us to triage our bugs?  That doesn't seem fair.16:43
Ursinharockstar: I don't know if that's ideal now; sometimes we dig old triaged bugs (or partially triaged) that need to be taken care now16:43
danilosrockstar, no, they shouldn't; can you guarantee all teams will have a very low number of untriaged bugs by next Thursday?16:43
danilosUrsinha, rockstar is not complaining about those16:43
danilosor at least not strongly :)16:44
rockstardanilos, I can't guarantee that, but maybe it's something we should start pushing harder.16:44
Ursinhadanilos: I'm saying that mentioning bugs isn't useless, triaged or untriaged, because afaik me and matsubara only bring up that ones that need to be taken care of16:44
danilosrockstar, what they do today is to raise importance of OOPS bugs in this meeting: sometimes they'll be untriaged, sometimes triaged16:45
Ursinhadanilos: agreeing with you16:45
danilosrockstar, I agree we should start pushing harder, let's have untriaged bugs part of the OOPS section until we feel confident we've done a good push16:45
matsubaradanilos, so you're asking some kinda of count of untriaged bugs per team in the oops section? we could do that easily, I think.16:46
danilosrockstar, we have 218 'New' bugs on launchpad-project today16:47
rockstarAlright.  It's obvious that we're at an impass.  I'll bring up my personal feelings with my line manager, and see what comes of it.16:47
rockstarI guess leave the meeting as it is.16:47
matsubaradanilos, or bring up those untriaged, but until we get those to manageable number, bringing up all of them during the meeting will be difficult and take a lot of time16:47
danilosrockstar, now I have to look up 'impass' in a dictionary :)16:47
rockstardanilos, deadlock.16:47
danilosrockstar, ok, thanks16:48
sinzuisuck to be soyuz it seems16:48
danilosrockstar, matsubara: having a per-team count of untriaged bugs would be a good start16:49
sinzuiand I see one of the new bugs claims to have a patch!16:49
matsubara[action] matsubara and/or Ursinha to add a count of untriaged bugs per team to the oops section16:49
MootBotACTION received:  matsubara and/or Ursinha to add a count of untriaged bugs per team to the oops section16:49
sinzuilaunchpad-foundations has a bug with a patch. I think they are hoping that jml will take the bug away from them16:49
jmlwhat16:49
jml(gotta ask me first)16:50
sinzuijml: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-foundations/+bugs?field.searchtext=&orderby=-importance&field.status%3Alist=NEW&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=CONFIRMED&field.status%3Alist=TRIAGED&field.status%3Alist=INPROGRESS&field.status%3Alist=FIXCOMMITTED&assignee_option=any&field.assignee=&field.bug_reporter=&field.bug_supervisor=&fie16:50
* sinzui hates bug urls16:50
danilosrockstar, btw, I'd be very happy if you get this moving in any way you can, so thanks for raising it!16:50
danilossinzui, we should integrate shorturl service into LP and generate/reuse those URLs with every bugs page :)16:51
sinzuidanilos: what? implement saved searches for users and teams?16:52
danilossinzui, kind of :)16:52
danilosanyway, matsubara, I believe the topic is settled16:52
sinzuiWe certainly would get a lot of cheers from users and even OEM16:53
matsubaradanilos, thanks for the feedback on this. you too rockstar and sinzui16:53
matsubaraanything else before I close?16:53
jmlsinzui, me too16:54
matsubaraThank you all for attending this week's Launchpad Production Meeting. See https://dev.launchpad.net/MeetingAgenda for the logs.16:54
jmlsinzui, anyway, I'm busy and not really paying attention. If you want me to do something, please email me something asking about it :)16:54
Ursinhasinzui: from me too :P16:54
matsubara#endmeeting16:54
MootBotMeeting finished at 10:54.16:54
Ursinhamatsubara: thanks16:54
Ursinhathanks all16:55
bigjoolsgnargh16:55
sinzuijml: I was only surprised to see bugs in the new state with patches, then I remembers there is one marked UI, we are planning to move thos bugs to another project16:55
=== salgado-lunch is now known as salgado
danilossinzui, the count of bugs with patches is totally broken for 'rosetta' project17:06
danilossinzui, it tells me "8 bugs with patches" and when I click it, it's two bugs both in 'fix released' (with multiple bugtasks, but all of them are fix released)17:07
sinzuidanilos: I think the bugs team need to fix that. I wonder it they skipped the default rule of ignore fixed bugs17:23
=== danilos is now known as daniloff
=== gary_poster is now known as gary-lunch
Ursinhadaniloff: sinzui, hm, I just filed a bug for that18:25
=== Edwin-afk is now known as EdwinGrubbs
=== gary-lunch is now known as gary_poster
=== matsubara is now known as matsubara-afk
=== salgado is now known as salgado-afk

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