[09:47] <randa_> czajkowski: hola chica
[09:49] <czajkowski> randa_: Aloha :)
[16:01] <dpm> hi everyone
[16:01] <dpm> welcome to this month's translations meeting
[16:02] <dpm> as usual, let's see who's there... :)
[16:02] <kelemengabor> I'm here
[16:02] <Andre_Gondim> \o/
[16:02] <askhl> I'm here
[16:03] <dpm> hi kelemengabor, Andre_Gondim, askhl
[16:03] <dpm> hey adiroiban
[16:03] <adiroiban> 0/
[16:03] <adiroiban> here
[16:04] <dpm> ok, let's get started, then
[16:05] <dpm> (I mean when the Meetings page decides to load on my browser)
[16:05] <dpm> ok, here it is, let's talk about the first topic
[16:05] <dpm> [TOPIC] Pending actions in defining Ubuntu Translations bugs handling
[16:06] <dpm> Basically, we've been using the ubuntu-translations project in LP to handle translation bugs for a while
[16:06] <dpm> we've talked with the bugsquad on how to best use it
[16:07] <dpm> and created a joint team with the bugsquad, the Ubuntu Translations Bugs Supervisors, so that bugsquad team members have also got permissions to set the
[16:07] <dpm> bug status as Triaged in ubuntu-translations
[16:07] <dpm> So far it has worked well
[16:08] <dpm> and I wanted to check that the process to file and handle bugs is by now well understood
[16:09] <dpm> and that we've done all of the actions we talked about in recent times
[16:09] <dpm> because then I'd like to make an announcement on the Planet on Ubuntu Translations bugs
[16:09] <Andre_Gondim> Well here in pt_BR team I will teatch other how to do/use this way, before this we just use mail list to report it
[16:10] <askhl> The Danish translation team already has a launchpad project for bugs in Ubuntu, https://launchpad.net/fjel .  Is this a more centralized equivalent?
[16:10] <dpm> Andre_Gondim, great, thanks. Yeah, that makes things easier for bugs, but do not let this feel discouraged to ask things and siscuss issues on the Mailing List
[16:11] <dpm> askhl, let me have a look...
[16:12] <dpm> askhl, I think it's completely fine to have a separate project for bugs in a particular language, but if you see bugs that can affect all languages, you should file them against ubuntu-translations
[16:12] <askhl> Right.
[16:12] <dpm> going back to ubuntu-translations and bugs, from my side, I can think of two things which are still pending:
[16:13] <dpm> * Merging https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/HandlingBugs and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/ReportingBugs
[16:13] <dpm> * Decide on which tags we want to use
[16:14] <dpm> Before going into more detail into those, can anyone think of any other pending issues? Or has anyone got questions about the ubuntu-translations project and its use for bugs?
[16:15] <dpm> We've basically got https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs#Filing%20translation%20bugs as a higher-level explanation to direct users to file bugs against ubuntu-translations
[16:16] <dpm> And I think it is fine in its current status
[16:16] <dpm> Any comments, suggestions?
[16:17] <kelemengabor> can this be made a bit more visible somehow?
[16:17] <kelemengabor> this is the first time I see this section
[16:17] <adiroiban> dpm: I will change „ you can always contact the Translations team”
[16:18] <adiroiban> to point to Launchad Ubuntu Translators Group
[16:18] <adiroiban> kelemengabor: you get to this page when you click „Report bug” in Ubuntu
[16:18] <adiroiban> http://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu
[16:19] <dpm> I'd love to make it more visible, but right now I cannot think of any other better place
[16:20] <adiroiban> agree with dpm :)
[16:20] <kelemengabor> adiroiban: oh, I never click the Report bug item :(
[16:20] <adiroiban> kelemengabor: how do you report bugs?
[16:20] <adiroiban> :)
[16:20] <dpm> kelemengabor goes straight to fixing them! :)
[16:20] <kelemengabor> :)
[16:20] <adiroiban> right
[16:20] <adiroiban> i forgot :)
[16:21] <kelemengabor> no, I usually find the source package from the translation template
[16:21] <kelemengabor> on which I detect something to report :)
[16:21] <kelemengabor> but this is perhaps just me
[16:21] <askhl> Can I systematically get all reports filed on the Danish translations?
[16:21] <adiroiban> askhl: not realy...
[16:22] <adiroiban> sometimes they are assigned to ubuntu danish team
[16:22] <askhl> I would suggest using the 'official' ubuntu translators groups to manage bugs in each language
[16:22] <adiroiban> and you can see all bugs assigned to a team
[16:22] <dpm> askhl, not, unless you give them a tag, but generally, we tend to assign language-related bugs to particular teams
[16:22] <dpm> as Adi is expplaining
[16:22] <adiroiban> askhl: and we do use the official ubuntu translation teams :)
[16:23] <dpm> askhl, we already do this
[16:23] <askhl> dpm: okay, so I would be alerted, being a member of the Danish team, in spite of not knowing anything about the central bug reporting?
[16:23] <dpm> only that perhaps no one has noticed any Danish bugs yet on ubuntu-translations
[16:23] <adiroiban> askhl: yes
[16:23] <adiroiban> as a translator
[16:23] <dpm> askhl, yes, when we assign a bug to the team, the team mailing list gets an e-mail
[16:23] <adiroiban> you don't need to care about how bugs are reported
[16:24] <adiroiban> just check the bugs assigned to your team
[16:24] <adiroiban> and fix them :)
[16:24] <askhl> Great.
[16:25] <dpm> anyway, just a quick note on kelemengabor's question, it might be that if you go to the source package, the redirect to the ReportigBugs page is disabled, so you can file the bug directly. I think that's ok (other than we should advertise the ubuntu-translations project better), since generally only advanced users will do this
[16:26] <dpm> I think I'll prepare a blog post on Ubuntu Translations bugs for next week
[16:26] <adiroiban> yes. if you go to a series or a sourcepackage, you will not be redirected to the wikipage
[16:27] <kelemengabor> oh, I see...
[16:27] <adiroiban> but the ubuntu bugsquad should know about „ubuntu-translations”
[16:27] <dpm> so, onto the pending points I was mentioning, I think I should just take care of putting the content from KnowledgeBase/ReportingBugs into HandlingBugs, and removing the "Brainstorming" section. I think most of the things discussed there have already been implemented
[16:28] <adiroiban> and when they triage your bug
[16:28] <adiroiban> they  will assign it to „ubuntu-translations”
[16:28] <adiroiban> dpm: +1
[16:28] <dpm> adiroiban, they know by now. Since the joint meeting with them, we've been getting more and more reports from bugsquad members assigned to ubuntu-translattions
[16:29] <dpm> which is good
[16:29] <dpm> ok, then I'll take care of the page merging
[16:30] <dpm> The other thing was tags, we talked a bit about them, put those we thought would be useful to use in the wiki page and we should perhaps discuss them
[16:31] <dpm> I think we talked about getting rid of the i18n one, as we've got the project itself and it might not be that interesting to know which bugs are i18n-related. What do you think?
[16:31] <adiroiban> since we have the ubuntu-translation project and we assign bugs to specific teams/persons
[16:32] <adiroiban> I no longer find them useful
[16:33] <dpm> what about the l10n tag? Do you think we should stop using them as well? (that's specifically the one where we assign the bugs to teams)
[16:33] <kelemengabor> who uses these tags, and for what?
[16:33] <adiroiban> kelemengabor: :)
[16:33] <kelemengabor> I don't, but I'm usually just reporting bugs
[16:34] <dpm> usually those who triage the bugs, if the reporter hasn't used them
[16:34] <adiroiban> i18n should also have a bug task on the package
[16:34] <adiroiban> by doing so, the developers are aware of them
[16:34] <adiroiban> l10n bugs are assigned to translations teams
[16:34] <dpm> I would still like to keep the needs-pot-on-build one and such, as I think they are useful to group similar bugs
[16:35] <adiroiban> yes
[16:35] <adiroiban> we can use then „on demand”
[16:37] <dpm> ok, so we agree on getting rid of i18n and l10n
[16:37] <adiroiban> if you find them useful
[16:37] <adiroiban> we can keep them
[16:38] <adiroiban> like kelemengabor asked: who uses these tags, and for what?
[16:38] <adiroiban> maybe we should define some „goals” and see if we can reach them using tags
[16:38] <dpm> ok, the needs-*, I use them, for grouping similar bugs :)
[16:38] <dpm> any translations-related tags you think would be worth having as Ubuntu official tags?
[16:39] <dpm> We've got them here, btw:
[16:39] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/KnowledgeBase/HandlingBugs#Tagging
[16:39] <adiroiban> rather than making sure each translation bug is tagged
[16:40] <kelemengabor> adiroiban: how about setting goals like "no bug tagged x can be open y weeks before release"
[16:40] <adiroiban> we should take care of assigning them to translation teams
[16:41] <dpm> adiroiban, yeah, I agree, but those assigned to teams are usually the easy ones, and fixed within hours (go translation teams!)
[16:41] <dpm> I like kelemengabor's idea, but that we can also do with priorities
[16:41] <adiroiban> we can keep needs-* tags
[16:41] <dpm> i.e. no Critical bugs can be open y weeks before release and such
[16:42] <adiroiban> cjk tag was useful, but now we have a team dedicated to those issues
[16:43] <dpm> ah, I see what you mean with teams, not only the translation ones
[16:43] <adiroiban> we can get rid of kubuntu/unr/xubunut/distro specific tags
[16:43] <adiroiban> as we should target packages
[16:43] <adiroiban> not distribution using them
[16:43] <kelemengabor> dpm: I was thinking about bugs making i18n impossible, like the ones tagged with needs-*
[16:45] <dpm> ok, sounds like a good idea. And it might tie in nicely with the other point in the agenda: organizing another Hug Day on translations
[16:46] <dpm> we could set a goal for the Hug Day as well, not only triage bugs
[16:47] <kelemengabor> having a Hug Day is a good idea
[16:47] <dpm> most importantly, not all translators are into the more technical stuff, but many coordinators are the ones with the in-depth technical knowledge
[16:47] <dpm> and it would be good if they especially would participate
[16:48] <dpm> for the more involved issues
[16:48] <adiroiban> when talking about bug, taging and triaging bugs, maybe we can ask the bugsquad for opinions. They whould have a good understanding of handling bugs
[16:48] <dpm> triaging can be done by nearly everyone, so all translators could participate as well
[16:49] <dpm> we asked them on the last meeting with them, there was some feedback, let me see if I can find the minutes...
[16:49] <adiroiban> i'm not saying that only bugsquad should handle bugs
[16:49] <StupidStudios> Hello?
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>   
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <StupidStudios>  
[16:50] <adiroiban> but maybe we can get some feedback regarding bug handling process
[16:50] <StupidStudios> crap.
[16:50] <StupidStudios> SCREW YOU!
[16:50] <vorian> !ops | StupidStudios
[16:50] <StupidStudios>                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             
[16:50] <StupidStudios>                                                                                                                                                                                     
[16:50] <StupidStudios>                                                                                                                                                                                     
[16:51] <dpm> thanks vorian
[16:51] <dpm> anyway, today I must go a bit earlier, I've got a session on Opportunistic Developer Week
[16:51] <vorian> np. Pici did the hard work
[16:51] <dpm> what would you think of a Hug Day in let's say ~1 or 2 weeks?
[16:52] <dpm> on ubuntu-translations, that is
[16:52] <kelemengabor> dpm: after Gnome 2.30 is out, it's fine for me :)
[16:52] <kelemengabor> wait, that's a bit late...
[16:53] <dpm> that'd be in 4 weeks
[16:53] <kelemengabor> 2 weeks then
[16:53] <dpm> ok, let me find a date, and I'll comment it on the ML
[16:53] <kelemengabor> on the 20th?
[16:53] <dpm> and check out with the bugsquad
[16:54] <dpm> that's a Saturday, I'm not sure everyone will be there on the weekend
[16:55] <kelemengabor> anyway, 250 bugs is too much for my nerves to live with :)
[16:55] <dpm> and we might end up doing the Catalan UGJ on the 20th anyway
[16:55] <dpm> :)
[16:55] <dpm> Let me see if I can suggest a date and we continue the discussion on the ML
[16:56] <dpm> ok, I must run today, so as usual, thanks a lot for the participation in today's Translations meeting, and see you around!
[16:57] <askhl> See you
[16:58] <Andre_Gondim> ;)